1986 European 400m women

[puljacina]

the disgusting weather probably ruined a another sub 48 performane for koch

[JorgeDan75]

Very good race!

[HotChixAndMusic]

If it was JUST a case of drugs then everyone would be finishing together. No-one's telling me that the GDR was on something completely different to everyone else and something that the American's (or anyone else) couldn't get hold of.

Fact is, with a world class championship medalling and world record breaking range from 100m all the way up to 400m, Marita IS the greatest female sprinter of all time. (no one before or since has had such a range).

[dehart5]

Steriods helped Koch race well. Although she was fast at an early age she peaked at around 50.5 during 1976. She would not have gone faster than that without steriods. It is a shame because the training methods such as speed work and weight training has improved (I was a weightlifter) yet the women's times now in the 400M don't come close to the times in the 80's and her world record. She started steriods in 76.

[mahtivaari72]

@johnnyblack1974 It's known to be a fact that GDR had a systematic doping program and Marita Koch was surely part of it.

[paulouk83]

anyone who honestly believes koch was clean is in serious denial!

[808HwnHammah]

she looks like a dude. the rest of he sprinters look like real women

[olebarca99]

drugs or no drugs koch was still without doubt A great athlete, and would have still dominated in any era.

[stingfan1000]

Last international appearance?...she ran one more international race after this - Rome World Cup in Sept 86 where she beat the Americans - Brico-Hooks I think? They tried to persuade her to carry on to the World Champs in '87...but after a heavy training session (!) - (I'm waiting for the negative comments about drugs now..ha!) when she was dragging a tyre behind her (apparently - so I read) she decided to 'call it a day'... drugs debate continues (so what) - I always loved watching her races..

[trickygoose]

Apparently she wanted to retire after her World Record in 85 but she wasn't allowed & did one more season.

[Ras09true]

48.23 and hardely out of breath,wow.what's become of her now?how come they have become so extinct now,Russians are the only part relevants euroepeans around,and they are not dominating.

[bzach71]

I dont think so. if its due to drugs, then why dont the whole of the GDR team quits. I think she lacks the determination, she won european, world, olympic and recaptured the 400m world record. She already has it all.

[aquamarineeyes]

well said bzach71

[aquamarineeyes]

I take that on board johnnyblack1974 of course I do but there has been talk in the German papers *Bild* and *Der Speigel* that these stories were wipped up as a smokescreen by anti GDR supporters to try and be derogratory against these athletes. We will never know the truth but the fact remains that Marita Koch was consistent at the the top of the tree from 1977 to 1986 whereas the so called Flo Jo was only good for one brief season. Marita Koch was the real deal definitely.

[MEECHIO]

The Marita Koch 'was she on drugs wasn't she on drugs' debate seems to of stirred up an interesting debate having looked through some of the comments. In my opinion she must of been taking drugs, be it through a National Doping Programme in the GDR. Take her World record of 47.60 set in 1985, no athlete in the last 20 years has got within half a second of it, take into account the improved training methods, better diets/nutrition and the faster tracks we have now and this just doesn't add up!

[aquamarineeyes]

There is serious debate into why Marita Koch retired when she did and my view she had *past her sell by date* (even although she would have certainly won at Rome and Seoul)as the strict communist East German regime were looking for fresh blood to prop up the dying regime.

[AlanTheAthleticsFan]

So was the achilles tendon reason for retirement used as a smokescreen for what you've stated above?

[aquamarineeyes]

As i have already stated there is serious debate that the dying GDR regime was looking to get rid of Marita Koch (as well as Marlies Gohr)during this time as they needed fresh blood. Heike Dreschler was waiting in the wings to take over.

[Ineddiblehulk]

I completely agree, but I have to admit, I kind of assume all pro athletes in any sport are on drugs. There is a spectrum from legal 'vitamins' and 'supplements' through to what they pumped into the GDR team back in the day. Not that I judge any of thm mind you, they still train their asses off to meet the public's demands for consistant world leading performances. THere is no denying Koch's and co's brilliance, they still had to be tough competitors, but yeah I assume drugged to the eyeballs

[bzach71]

being slow doesnt make u clean.

[jokerwildest]

how right u r, as being fast doesn't make u dirty.

[bzach71]

Thanx for aggreeing. Personally, i NEVER bother about who's on drug or not. To me, its a LEVEL playing field (tht should be self explanatory to almost everybody whether u r German fan, Amerrican fan, Australian fan, Russian, Japanese etc fan). Its a LEVEL playing field - rest in peace. Just Enjoy the game. And i love Koch, Ashford, Dreschler most.

[vonkaunaz]

@bzach71 : Could not put it better myself; all these American freaks are to athletics what an ultra-conservative catholic is to sex. I, too, do not care for "illegal" substances taken by athletes. These nerds seem to believe that just by taking substances you will turn into a Marita Koch. Nothing could be further from the truth. They seem to believe that Koch was the doping one because she won, while the other girls on the track against are the innocent losers who were not doping.

[seamuscroke]

exactly, you would be out of breath running that fast! She also looks very manly!

[mmbmusa]

.....''She is hardly out of breath''... She is on drugs dude

[Branded1978]

The greatest 400 metre runner of all time!!

[munkhut]

All in this final full with anabol Steriods

[charliechristeff]

So, so right my friend. The junkies ruled then .... and FloJo was a babe but became ... well, as you described.

[sequiaonda78]

where is GDR or German sprit results after the anti-doping programs in the great meets?... WHERE?. There is nothing form them, all the previous results were produced by Drugs.

[sequiaonda78]

Excuse me guys,.,... but look Marita's video for her European champ for 1982 she looks like a woman.. she looks even pretty.. but see her face here... Big nose, the chicks without fat and meat... she seems be another person... Grug effect guys.. Sorry.. same Flojo in 1988 she had a very masculine voice. She had a trucker voice. Sorry.

[sequiaonda78]

Marita Looked as a man in this video, her face looks wird and very masculine. I think that is the effect of the drug Oral-Turinabol she used several years.

[aquamarineeyes]

errr excuse me but look at Maria Mutola (800m runner) who is DEFINITELY a man by the way she looked! Marita is a fabulous Ayrian.

[SerchWagnerianBear]

What does to be a fabulous Ayrian exactly mean?

[lionel187]

A fabulous Ayrian!!!! You are out of your mind! Maria Mutola, Flo-jo, Marita Koch, Marion Jones, and the list goes on... They were all juiced! All these records need to be wiped out as they are all a disgrace!

[aquamarineeyes]

It is very interesting to note that the German Chancellor Frau Angela Merkel is re-opening the sports school that produced all the great women athletes like Marita Koch, Marlies Gohr, Heike Drechsler, Katrin Krabbe, Silke Moller. Germany will have great women sprinters again like they always have been.

[bzach71]

thats good to hear. I am really disappointed at the current performance of german athletes in general. Initially i expected them to be very strong once they unite (east and west)..(imagine michael gross steffen zessner uwe dassler and thomas fahrner in a relay). But it just dont materialise. Only recently they manage to get a gold - thru Britta steffen. The others perform well in europe but poorly in olympics (eg Almsick, Meeuw).

[SerchWagnerianBear]

I wonder why FlatulenceFox's, sequiaonda78's, my comments and whoever's comments of people thinking Koch was on drugs are evaluated as bad comments and therefore remain hidden. aquamarine, what happens? Can't you sustain your ideas?

[SerchWagnerianBear]

"...In 1991 German anti drug activists Brigitte Berendonk and Werner Franke were able to save several doctoral theses and other documents written by scientists working for the East German drug research program...According to the sources Koch did use the anabolic steroid Oral-Turinabol from 1981-1984 with dosages ranging from 530 to 1460 mg/year" Source: Wilkipedia.

[ollie705]

I think it is naive to say that Koch wasn't taking PEDs. It is documented that she was part of the doping programme in the 70s and 80s. But even without such evidence, her 400m world record says it all. However Flo Jo was just as guilty; she played the East Germans at their own game, albeit for a much shorter time.

[FlatulenceFox]

Everything about the old program was good. That is..except for the doping. Really the only problem that I had with the GDR was that the doping was state sponsored and that it was often done without the athletes' knowledge.

Individuals who do it are also wrong, but at least they are making an informed decision to not only break the rules and cheat but also to endanger their own health.

[FlatulenceFox]

Well that is good to hear. Unfortunately, there are others who were on the East German team from that time who are not in the best of health because of the "training methods" of the East German system. Those former athletes are suffering chronic problems through no fault of their own.

But it is good to at least hear that Marita Koch is in good health.

[camberra1985]

POR MAS QUE LAS CRITIQUEN Y HOY LAS IGNOREN(POR LOS MANDATOS OCCIDENTALES) AQUELLOS QUE LAS ADMIRAMOS ALGUNA VEZ SIEMPRE LAS DEFENDEREMOS Y SOMOS MUCHO-HOY TODOS LOS -NADADORES Y ATLETAS-SON IGUAL O MAS GRANDES -musculos inmensos)QUE LAS EX-CHICAS-DE LA RDA-

[camberra1985]

quiero recordarles a los que critican a la ex-rda-que los tecnicos y estrenadores de dicho pais se trasladaron a paises com nglaterra-australia-francia-ho­landa(despues de la caida del muro) con resultados que han podido ver todos y nadiea hablo de doping sistematizado en dichos paises por???????

[gorhman]

Y yo te recuerdo a tí que estás exagerando un poco. Esa migración de técnicos de la que hablas se produjo en todo caso hacia China y Grecia. Ésta última de cara a conseguir resultados con motivo de los juegos olínpicos del 2000. Eso dió lugar a casos aislados de atletas que dieron resultados (Thabou/ Kenteris y mediofondistas chinas) pero un dópin sistemático y a gran escala programado y apoyado por el gobierno como en la RDA no tuvo lugar en ningún otro sitio, salvo quizá en la URS.

[gorhman]

Por mucho que te gusten las alemanas orientales, lo cierto es que se chutaban TODAS. Sin excepcion. Y hay documentos que así lo prueban.

[aquamarineeyes]

THe fact remains Marita Koch was never ever found to have drugs in her system so we need to take it as such that she was just a great super star of the track. This was proven season after season after season unlie Flo Jo who only had one suer star season the IMMEDIATELY retired! hmmmm......Marita ich leibe dich x

[FlatulenceFox]

So why did Marita Koch retire at this time and did not wait until the 1988 Olympics? It is very odd that she retired at this point when she still dominated. Could it have been the effects of years of steroid use? That was why many other East German athletes suddenly stopped competing during this time. It does take a toll on the body.

I know you want to pick on Flojo. But trust me, there is a load of evidence that Marita Koch came out of a cheating system herself.

[aquamarineeyes]

Marita Koch retired in 1986 as she had a constant niggling injury that would not go away. She had achieved everything that she set out to achieve in athletics. No one could touch her at 400m when she was on the track. Marita Uber Alles!

[FlatulenceFox]

Thanks for the thumbs down. I am making my point. Anyway, the hip and joint injuries are common among East German female athletes who took steroids.

[aquamarineeyes]

thumbs down? what are you talking about dude? I am not that petty! That is something maybe I would expect from my 5 year old son!

It is very interesting that you focus on East German women all the time. Is there a slight sexual connotation to you regarding them in some way as it seems so.

Remember that it is not just the eastern bloc that were accused of taking steroids (Marion Jones etc). There is a book that you should check out regarding the American athletes called "Speed Trap".

[lionel187]

Speed Trap was the story of Ben Johnson written by Charlie Francis (his coach) Get your facts right!

[aquamarineeyes]

one is WELL AWARE of Speed Trap! Marita Koch was clean when she broke this World Record in 1985. yes 1985!!!

[lionel187]

Of course she was clean when she ran! A drug program is not taken during the season, it is taken during the off season prior major competition! But you knew that right! She definitely followed the cycles of a great drug program unlike Mr. Ben Johnson!

[aquamarineeyes]

Unless you can provide CONCRETE proof of the great Marita Koch's alleged drug taking, don't bother responding back to me as your brain cells are more than obviously limited you anti German racist!

[lionel187]

You are really something else! First and for most let me set the record straight: I have German blood in my veins, through my mother! Her last name was "Meyer", so please don't try to bring race into this conversation. We are talking about athletes performance and possibility of them using drugs. Leave it at that! It seems that you are the one who has racial issues with certain groups. I saw one of your comments with the word: "Aryan"! I grew up 20 miles away from the German border so please!

[jokerwildest]

Or Carl Lewis, Jackie Joyner, Florence Griffith, Valire Brisco, Gail Devers and the list goes on......

[lionel187]

Oh, you are absolutely right, without a doubt, we can add all these names to the list! There has been a whole fiasco taking place for years... Its all politics! I personally know people who are training with Flo's former husband currently...

[MEECHIO]

Strange indeed that she retired at 29 with the World Champs in Rome in 1987 looming and then the Olympics in Seoul in 1988. For the record the athlete a distant second in this race was Olga Vladykina(Bryzgina) who went on to win Gold in Rome and Seoul. Surely a 'niggling injury' wouldn't of stopped Koch from competing in both Championships knowing that she was head and shoulders above the oppsition and a certainty for Gold. I think FlatulenceFox may be onto something regarding the steroid use.

[aquamarineeyes]

It really is a sad state of affairs when people cannot acknowledge true God given talent in the likes of Marita Koch and what she achieved from 1977 to 1986. What about Sebastian Coe and his long distinguished dominating career. Was he on drugs too then? hmmmm

[Mxyzptlk562]

The problem is that she looks to be more of a man than Sebastian Coe. She was a doped up beast. I bet her clitoris was was at least 4 inches long by the time of this event.

[camberra1985]

marita: te vi gracias a youtube: en 1977-1980-1982-1983-1984-1985-­1986-si bien jamas tube dudas de tus 47,60(400)ahora ni siquiera me queda la d( de dudas)fuiste lejos lo mejor de lo mejor

[Branded1978]

Marita at one of her last performances. Always great to watch her run.

[benji84]

Loved the comment about Koch not being out of breath after running sub 49, no wonder with all those drugs she was on!

[ROUGHBULL]

hey, i can`t hear it anymore! well maybe she was doped but if they would have been all drugfree she would also be the fastest woman in the world over 400m! what`s about perec, freeman and guevara? guevara is so old and wearing a dent-brace! perec is not so far away from koch`s fabulous times and was never suspected also freeman!

i think one day comes a new generation of female sprinters and they will beat koch`s times!

[lionel187]

I agree with you! Did you know that Perec almost died in LA at a certain point! She was training under John Smith, ended at the hospital where she nearly past. Smith had history providing athletes with anabolic substance.

[DYNASTYO5]

Koch was not drugged.

[zim83]

Of course. And babies are delivered by storks who fly all the way from Paris.

[DYNASTYO5]

Really? WOW! That's amazing!

[paulouk83]

seriously? u believe that?

[FlatulenceFox]

Who told you that? Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny?

[aquamarineeyes]

This will give you a more balanced view of the American athletes that took steroids but no doubt FlatulenceFox you won't be interested in checking that out as you prefer to bash the East Germans. Most unusual. Hmm....

[FlatulenceFox]

Oh, so you bashed Flo-Jo for my benefit. How kind of you. Of course I never once said that no American athlete had ever taken steroids. And I am open to the possibility that Flo-Jo took steroids. However, I just want solid proof, not the suspicion, innuendo and gut feeling which is sufficient as irrefutable proof for you. And, yes, the fact that the GDR had had systematic, state-sponsored doping is a fact..recorded by the East Germans themselves. The US government never had such a program.

[FlatulenceFox]

Since this particular post is about Martia Koch (who was once a citizen of the GDR), I just pointed out the fact that they their performance was directly attributed to a state sponsored doping program. She was not caught so her records will stand until broken - just like Flo-Jo. And in the end, what does it really matter? Today Marita Koch has chronic hip problems and Flo-Jo is dead. But there records still stand. Get over it.

[bzach71]

Bravo aquamarine. My policy is simple to current sports ..whenever someone not american wins..they are cheaters!! Not only the GDR, the japanese swimmer (kosuke Kitjima), alain bernard , eamon sullivan etc...all are cheaters according to the americans. Honestly i loath the fact that they are blind towards their own sportsmen/women..just look a the muscles of the american athletes...even ben johnson looks puny in comparison.

[aquamarineeyes]

thanks bzach71 for that. yeah of course, if it is not an American winner, they immediately say that the "foreign" winner was a cheat! It is disgraceful how they get away with it!

[lionel187]

I am European and tell you: Koch was on drugs! You can believe otherwise but she was on Drugs! Perec was on Drugs too! She juiced when she was training in the HSI camp and when she joined Koch's husband to train.... The whole Olympics are a fraud!

[aquamarineeyes]

PROVE IT that Koch was on drugs in 1985!!! If you can't shut the fuck up!!!

[lionel187]

no one can prove it as it is so long ago but hey what's for sure is that I am not going to get on your level as far as being limited with your vocabulary! Try to use a better language to communicate effectively! It definitely does not make you look Mr. Smarty! However they do have documents that have records of German athletes name including your protege that were using at the time: Oral-Turinabol. By the way, I wish I could see you in person to respond to your ignorant comment!

[aquamarineeyes]

PMSL!!! Listen to yourself you retard! As for meeting me in person then bring it on! I am 6ft5" in height and built like a brick shit house! Marita Uber Alles!

[lionel187]

Look at your comments! Lets have a mature conversation about the video! Don't give me a physical description of yourself! I can careless of what you look like! But, I see what kind of individual I am dealing with: Someone with not much in the brain! Marita Uber Alles! Lo! Funny!

[aquamarineeyes]

Look at YOUR comments!!! You can't even construct English in it's correct grammatical structure!!! "I can careless" eh what???? Go back to kindergarten idiot pussy boy! hahahahahahahaha

[lionel187]

Look how you respond to most people! All you know is profanity! It just shows how limited you are Mr. 6ft5 Brick house! In addition, you obviously don't know much about track and field! Keep on believing that your hero just trained hard, drank water and took vitamins to run sub 48 in the 400! If you can't just have a normal discussion regarding track and field then don't respond at all!

[lionel187]

Put it like this: It has nothing to do with race! We can go back 24 year back or even more! We need to wipe out all the records because in most Olympic Finals, all finalist were juiced while training months and months prior their championships... Here is the formula: Hard work + natural talent+Perf. Enhanc. Program=success

Let me give you another guess: many are now using some type of stimulant... at least 6 out of 8 in a race!