Common Misconceptions About the Sabbath and SDA

[critterluvva]

1 Sam 2:30, "Wherefore the LORD God of Israel saith, I said indeed that thy house, and the house of thy father, should walk before me for ever: but now the LORD saith, Be it far from me; for them that honour me I will honour, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed."

Num 6:24-26 "The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace." Amen and amen!

[critterluvva]

Misconception #12-15

Catholics accuse themselves

""Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her, she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the Seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority" Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism 3rd ed. p. 174

No authority Dan 7:25

SDA love- Mark 12:31

SDA faith rests on the Bible and not on the church. II Tim 2:15

[liliodine]

Let's define cult: a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies. Gee, kinda sounds like every religion out there, huh?

[e7c7o7]

Where in the new testament are christian believers commanded to keep the sabbath? and are there any historic christian writings which indicate that the early church (AD 30-330) kept the sabbath and didnt gather together on a sunday as orthodox christians do today

[an35tares]

@e7c7o7 Hi ! What you said here is completly false. I have a lot of documents which proves the opposite. The first disciple of apostle kept the sunday like them in the first century. Clement of Rome (see Ph 4,3) disciple of Paul, Ignatius of Antioch too (disciple of Peter and Paul), Irénée de Lyon (disciple of Polycarp, himself disciple of John) etc. Each of them kept the sunday.

[an35tares]

@e7c7o7 Ignace wrote : so if those who lived order of things came to a new hope, no longer observing the sabbath, but the lord's day, day when our life has been thrown by him and by his death --some deny it, but it is by this mystery that we have received the faith, and that is why we holf firm to be found of real disciple of Jesus Christ, our only master. (Magnesien letter)

[e7c7o7]

@an35tares I think u must've misunderstood my point! i know that Christians gathered on a Sunday for worship and the Lord's Supper, I've read Ignatius and Clement about it, I agree with you!! What i was saying was that there were some Jewish Christians who still kept the Sabbath and then gathered together with Gentile believers on a Sunday, like Paul wrote by the Spirit in Romans 14, if someone wants to observe a day theyre not sinning, if they're doin it to the Lord

[gabo802]

i love the fact that you mentioned not having enough information to put out a video about a particular topic, too many times people know something that others dont so they keep on going and the truth goes from truth to being make believe.keep it coming, im finding out a lot of things about different religions that are misunderstood today. all praises to the most high

[calatis4u]

we ought to worship SUN-day and do pork bbque saturdays.............this is right understanding of the bible!

[onetwopussies]

SDA's are lacking Scriptural Understanding,same as Roman Catholics and the likes.

[onetwopussies]

Remembering the Sabbath when commanded to men in the New Testament is RESTING FROM DOING SIN......... Which is to STOP SINNING PERIOD!

[lazarusisalivetoday]

It is a cult as it is subtly controlling and impossible to escape from without the fear of recieving the mark of the beast and going to hell. An SDA cannot study sincerely without these sublte pressures in the back of his mind, and when His eyes are opened to the truth it is years of extreme difficutly renewing ones mind from the awful brainwashing of ellen g white

[loveyouallinheaven]

WHO is ELLEN G. WHITE???

she is dead sda prophet.

she was among deceived who waited for Jesus return in 1842-44 3 times. She wrote (plagerised) tons of books, had many prohpeses but was wrong 100% (sda sead they all were conditional 150%).She died in finantial corruption. and finally got satanic monument on her grave.

any more ???

[djconklin]

>She wrote (plagerised) tons of books

There was no plagiarism involved. I published an articlae in a scholarly, refereed journal (Plagiary) that proved it.

Robinson, B. A. "Seventh-day Adventist Church Its origin, beliefs, practices, etc.,"

He concluded (without seeing the type of study recommended by Dr. Veltman) that Conklin had already "demonstrate[d] that there is no proof of Ellen White's plagiarism."

[loveyouallinheaven]

. Just stop deceiving honest souls please Why is this debate. SDA is full of false teaching, theories, false prophesis,deceits.

EGW proved to be a false prophet. She even ordered to put satanic monument on her grave.

Read "EARLY WRITINGS" and you will see the origilal evil.

I just with you to escape the deceit. At list research and prove me wrong.

[djconklin]

>She even ordered to put satanic monument on her grave.

I've asked repeatedly to see the evidence for that claim.

[Myhopeisinhim]

Thought I might point out:

Each day is a day that the Lord has made, he can be remembered in each and every day, without it being a sin.

The sabbath didn't always exist. The covenant, which contained the sabbath commandment, didn't exist for 430 years after Abraham.

[djconklin]

>The sabbath didn't always exist. The covenant, which contained the sabbath commandment, didn't exist for 430 years after Abraham.

The Sabbath existed from Creation. Noah had a covenant with God, Abraham had a covenant with God and at the Exodus Israel had a covenant. They are all different from each other.

[Myhopeisinhim]

What I meant was, the sabbath command didn't exist until Moses. Yes God rested, but there is no indication that he gave man the command to rest before Moses, or that any man did rest on the seventh day.

Any proof of man resting was once he revealed it to Moses, exactly as Nehemiah said he did.

[djconklin]

>What I meant was, the sabbath command didn't exist until Moses.

When God rested on the Sabbath, He also blessed it and made it holy. That wasn't for Him as He needed no rest. Since ware made in His image that means it was for us. The command is implied. The Sabbath was set up then, just as marriage was set up in verses 18-24 (not explicltly stated). You shouldn't need a command to be like your Creator.

[Myhopeisinhim]

Dj - The bible says:

Neh 9:14 - And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:

The fact is, God told Moses to write down all that he heard while on the mountain, and part of what he heard had to do with the sabbath, what was supposed to happen on the sabbath, and why the sabbath was given.

In Genesis, he shared how God rested and blessed the day, but just because he rested isn't proof he gave it to man.

[Myhopeisinhim]

God gave adam and eve the following commands:

1) Be fruitful and multiply

2) Do not eat of the fruit of the tree in the midst of the garden, for the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die

3) He also asked man to keep the garden, albeit he didn't have to work/toil, like men do these days

He said man would die if they ate the fruit, but nothing about dying if he didn't keep the sabbath. Man hadn't fallen, thus he was in a perfect perpetual restful relationship with our Lord.

[Myhopeisinhim]

We also see him give marriage to man, and we see people doing all these commands, with the exception of one:

"The sabbath"

There is no way to deny this fact. There is NO proof any man received the sabbath command before Moses. There is also no proof man kept the sabbath before Moses.

You can try to fall back on the fact it mentions God rested on the seventh day, but the bible explicitly states it was revealed to Moses.

Are you willing to accept Nehemiah's words, and the fact there is...

[Myhopeisinhim]

proof that his words are indeed accurate, especially when NO man in the book of genesis was ever shown as keeping the sabbath.

You may want to deny it, but are you going to continue to believe the words of man, or the inspired words of God who said otherwise?

[djconklin]

>There is NO proof any man received the sabbath command before Moses.

From an article I'm reading:

James D. O'Neill, "The Pre-Mosaic Sabbath-I," Catholic University Bulletin (Jan. 1899):

"Consequently, while He may not have issued any decree pertaining to the observance of a sabbath in primitive times, the example of His own repose "suggested to man a seventh day rest with suitable worship thereon."" (citing about a dozen scholars) page 32

[djconklin]

God told Moses to write down all that he heard while on the mountain, and part of what he heard had to do with the sabbath,

We have no evidence that that was when Moses was told about the Sabbath. In fact, a month before that with the giving of the manna we have the Sabbath mentioned by name. And prior to the Exodus Pharoah complained that Moses made the people rest from their labors.

Also, Dr. William Mead Jones found that in over 100 languages the name for the 7th day was "sabbath."

[Myhopeisinhim]

Regardless of what anyone else says, the bible tells us that God revealed his sabbath to Moses. We see the first instance of man resting in Exodus, with Moses no less.

Can you find any instance before Moses, anywhere at all, where a man kept it before Moses? If it was such an important time since the beginning of creation, can you share even one person who kept it before it was given to Moses?

[Myhopeisinhim]

You may want to accept what William Mead says, but fact is, there is no biblical proof that man kept the sabbath before Moses.

The belief it existed as a command before Moses is based on the teaching of men, and not proof from God's word.

God showed us what commands he gave Adam and Eve, and the sabbath wasn't one of them. Why? Why did he not breathe a single word of man keeping it until Moses?

Why did he say he revealed it to Moses? I'm afraid evidence goes against a prior sabbath command.

[djconklin]

>You may want to accept what William Mead says

He found cold hard facts. Kind of hard to dispute these.

>there is no biblical proof that man kept the sabbath before Moses.

There is some circumstantial evidence. But the fact is theere is no evidence that no one didn't keep the Sabbath before Moses.

Why would God institute the Sabbath at Creation but negelect to tell anyone about it till Moses came along? Why have a command that points us back to Creation unless it came from there?

[djconklin]

>God showed us what commands he gave Adam and Eve,

tell me what they are. Tell me also when He told cain what "sin" was before He told Cain that sin lieth at the door. Tell me when did God tell us not to kill? Was it before of after Cain killed Abel?

[Myhopeisinhim]

Djconklin

Who told Adam he was naked?

[djconklin]

>Why did he not breathe a single word of man keeping it until Moses?

He did. He blessed the day and sanctified it. Are we to believe that He did so and then let man trample all over it? Does that even begin to make sense?

[djconklin]

>the bible at Genesis stated that God went to rest on the 7th, but in the new testement Jesus said that his Father is always working, everyday.

>Does that make sense?

Yes. God rested from His creative work and rested, blessed and sancitified (made holy) the Sabbath. Then on the first day of the next week He went back to His regular work.

[Myhopeisinhim]

Djconklin - Did he really return to his regular work? The work he rested from was the work he just completed. The work he rested from was creation. Did he start back up on monday re-creating, or creating things all over again?

No....He is in a forever perpetual state of rest from that creation. It's this same perpetual state of rest that he encourages us to enter into through faith.

If something is complete, there isn't anything you can do to make it more complete..more...

[Myhopeisinhim]

When you are made complete in Christ you enter in to a perpetual state of rest, having obtained the righteousness of God.

There is nothing more you can do..This is the state of rest you can enter into the moment you believe. This is a rest that could not be entered into until Christ came.

We are to rest as God rested..Did God rest, only to start creation back up the next day? No, creation was complete, and you are made complete in him.

more...

[Myhopeisinhim]

This is something that alot of people are missing:

Col 2:10 - And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

People are still trying to make themselves complete, still trying to add something to God's salvation. Jesus says you are complete. And where something is complete, there is only rest.

Creation was complete that is why God rested..He didn't rest just to start creation again the next day, it was complete.

[Myhopeisinhim]

Jesus says cease from your works as HE ceased from his. He didn't cease just to start them back up again. He ceased because there was nothing more to do.

That didn't magically change because it became the first day of the week...and you don't magically become uncompleted when the first day of the week comes.

You can rest as he rested, in his perpetual state of rest, this is always and forever, not just one day. He gave us the one day rest to point forward to the real rest.

[Myhopeisinhim]

For the seventh day sabbath people rested, then had to start back up their regular work the next day.

The bible says the law was only a shadow of better things to come. Man had to start working the day after the sabbath, it was somewhat of a reminder that they were not yet complete.

Now we can enter in to the rest that comes from being made complete, forever truly complete in him. We can truly rest from our works as God rested from his.

Do you see?

[djconklin]

>The bible says the law was only a shadow of better things to come.

There is no text in the Bible that says that.

>it was somewhat of a reminder that they were not yet complete.

No, they had to work for sustance.

[Myhopeisinhim]

This true rest is remembered whenever we break the bread and drink the cup.

God bless:)

Patricia

[djconklin]

>You can rest as he rested, in his perpetual state of rest, this is always and forever, not just one day.

There is nothing in Scripture that says that god is in a perpetual state of rest. The physical rest on the Sabbath, in obedience to His command, is the sign that we are resting spiritually for sanctification and are not trying to earn salvation by our own works. See Exod. 31:13 and Ezek. 20:12.

[djconklin]

>Did he really return to his regular work?

KJV John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

[djconklin]

>a spiritual sabbath in HIM!! praise the Lord! Hebrews 4 labour into that rest

Right on! The physical rest we take on the Sabbath is an example of the spiritual rest we are to have in Him.

[Myhopeisinhim]

That doesn't say when he blessed it, only that he blessed it. But just because something is blessed doesn't necessarily mean it was time to reveal it to mankind.

Think of his Holy name. It was to Moses he revealed his Holy Name as well. Do you think man trampled all over his name because he didn't reveal it then?

[djconklin]

>That doesn't say when he blessed it,

ROFL! If you use that kind of rule you might as well throw away the Bible because it means you can't read it as it is.

Do you really think that god would bless a day and make it holy after His creation has used it as an other day. Besides we need a day to rest. Did they just pick on willy-nilly to a month B4 Sinai? Why is the seventh-day known as "sabbath" in over 100 languages? Because they learned it from Adam through Noah, etc..

[meNoToFtHiSwOrLd]

God made the Sabbath then 4000 years later (which to God is as 4 days), He told us THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN. All men, since Adam. This simple statement is the one that proves the Sabbath was recognized in Genesis. Can you see yourself stand before the Master and question Him as to what He meant by "made for man"? Are you gonna tell the Master that He meant His holy 7th day was only in effect "for men" from the time it was revealed to Moses up until His death?

[Acerrak]

i can stand before Him with hands raised

praising Him for His Son who dies for m who Is my Sabbath, my healer, my deliverer, my everything, cause with out Christ what would a sabbath do for you?

[Myhopeisinhim]

I'm curious, what do you think the other half of the phrase meant...."Not man for the sabbath"?

[meNoToFtHiSwOrLd]

@Myhopeisinhim

The Sabbath was made to benefit man, man was not made to benefit the Sabbath

If excessive hunger excused David for violating even the holiness of the sanctuary, and made his act guiltless, how much more excusable was the simple act of the disciples in plucking the grain and eating it upon the Sabbath day.

cont ...

[meNoToFtHiSwOrLd]

Jesus would teach his disciples and his enemies that the service of God was first of all; and, if fatigue and hunger attended the work, it was right to satisfy the wants of humanity, even upon the Sabbath day. That holy institution was not given to interfere with the needs of our being, bringing pain, and discomfort, instead of blessings. "The Sabbath was made for man," to give him rest and peace, and remind him of the work of his Creator, not to be a grievous burden - egw

[Myhopeisinhim]

Right, meaning there were exceptions. The sabbath wasn't mandatory above all else, otherwise man would have been made for the sabbath not sabbath for the man.

If you are called to a higher calling, or a need of humanity comes up, the rules of the sabbath showed to be optional.

You didn't have to put the sabbath first. That is the difference between mandatory and optional. The sabbath was an option for mankind, it was not the be all and end all of commands.

[Myhopeisinhim]

This is one of the reasons why the sabbath will not be the deciding factor. Otherwise it would be an obligation, a mandatory requirement for salvation...but we never see it as such.

If someone was being kicked out of their place on the seventh day, would you go to their place and perform a work to help them out?

I would! And it would be fine in the eyes of the Lord. He wants us to love, and one cannot love if the sabbath is mandatory.

That is how the law traps ya.

[meNoToFtHiSwOrLd]

> If you are called to a higher calling, or a need of humanity comes up,

What if something doesn't come up?

>the rules of the sabbath showed to be optional.

To do good is one of the rules

> That is how the law traps ya.

Traditions of men trap ya, Gods law is perfect, holy, just & good, ... to name a few.

> This is one of the reasons why the sabbath will not be the deciding factor.

Obedience will be the deciding factor,

To obey is better than sacrifice, 1Samuel 15v22

[Acerrak]

the old test. sabbath was for rest, God commanded them to rest from work. It was never commanded for them to have church on, The elders forced traditions of men on the people. there was nothing wrong with having church on the sabbath, nothing at all. However it was aday set aside for rest, rest for slaves animals lands, Sabbath also had yearly sabbaths as well that need to be kept not just once a week. if you set aside that day then you esteem that day, no day is greater than any other day now

[lawman762]

@Acerrak Obviously you do not understand something here. Perhaps you should read more and try to understand what is being read. I really do tire of the same rhetoric spewed forth from hearts that are decieved. GOD is truly turning mens hearts to stone, their wisdom to foolishness and turning their hearts over to evil. I pray GOD will give you a spark, a dust particle of wisdom so you will understand HIS truths. GOD Bless

[Acerrak]

@lawman762 i know i pray that the deceptions of the sda and elen white would stop, it can be lethal, I have a few of her books and the contridictions of her words and the bible are great yet you people back her even when the evidence is presented to you. you continue to believe that satan will be your sin barer, what madness and terrible doctrine taught by man in this so called church of sda.

[lawman762]

@Acerrak Give me examples and books of these deceptions and i will consider them. remember one thing, she was a woman, human, therefore prone to mistakes and not perfect. I`m past being angered by your nonsense and can only hope others actually look at the evidence and teachings of the Church. Are you really so foolish to think that we all take what EGW has written and live by it? The BIBLE is what we live by. Tell me what Church you attend please?

[Acerrak]

@lawman762 im glad you take that however even in your fundamental beliefs established in your doctrine you agree with what she says or they would have never baptized you. desire of the ages many points, God formulated a plan of salvation after adam fail. Jesus had older brothers, Judas decieved his way into the inner circle etc.

[Acerrak]

@lawman762 you call what i teach foolish, yet all my points are from the bible its not my own words, the bible clearly teaches that the sabbath day was a shadow of something greater, so automatically some thing should ring that hey there is a change happening. again exodus 31:16 states was a covenant for the nation of Israel

[lawman762]

@Acerrak Tell me where did the Sabbath shadow start?

[Acerrak]

@lawman762 were did it start. with the changing of the law, when the new testimony of Jesus came to pass after the ressurection. The sabbath was now no longer the seal, but the Spirit became the seal and the rest that man found in a day is now rest in the Spirit. Many things from the old testament are shadows and they all point to Jesus.

Matthew 11;28-29 Jesus said this to sabbath keeping jews

[lawman762]

@Acerrak Nice try, give me something that makes sense. Math 11:28-29 speak of reat in him not of changing the sabbath day.

[Acerrak]

@lawman762 what do you think the sabath was pointing to? the sabbath was pointing to the rest in Christ!! (THAT is why the day was a shadow) The Seal of The Spirit is the Mark of God on a person not the sabbath. Nice try? if your not sealed with His spirit your none of His. that is HUGE the rest is even described in revelations as them who die in Christ have rested from there labours. Christ is your sabbath!!

[lawman762]

@Acerrak You still havn`t answered my question on this, where did the shadow derive from? We agree on that, the Sabbath has nothing to do with our salvation. I`m not following your statement " CHRIST is my Sabbath", sorry.

[an35tares]

@Acerrak Hi Acerak! I'm agree with you Christ is our sabbath, the rest annonced by the creation's sabbath. Hebrew say that Christ is our sabbath too. The sda misunderstood some text because are using the interpretation of EGW to understand them. For the mark of the beast, the scripture alone say the Holy Spirit is the seal of God. Nothing to do with the sabbat or sunday. Jesus don't say nothing about that by his differents descriptions of the finals scenes.

[an35tares]

@Acerrak I would also say that in the new land, there is no issue of observance of Sabbat as stated in the SDA. If we read Apo. 21, 22-23, it is said that there would be no sun or moon to illuminate the earth. We know that the Sabbath is in direct relation to the sun. How in this case keep the Sabbath if there is no sun or moon?

[Acerrak]

@lawman762 you know when the letter went out to the gentiles this would have been a great time to say hey keep the sabbath but it wasnt, and no gentiles didnt go to church on saturday already. and we never see the sabath day taught to them either. the only time we see it in the book of acts is when Paul goes in to teach jews the truth in the synagoges cause that is were they gathered on saturday and what beter way to reach them when they are all together

[lawman762]

@Acerrak The gentiles went to the apostles and asked to be taught on the next sabbath. I think perhaps you should go back and read again. Give me one verse that says that GOD or JESUS changes the sabbath?

[Acerrak]

@lawman762 yes and guess what they were judaism converts, isnt that something they were taught to obey the LAw and they didnt know the truth of Jesus

[Acerrak]

@lawman762 can you explain to me collosions 2:16-18 or we can go to hebrews and look at what entering the rest of God takes which is believing, and specificaly the day not just he sabbath. the day that you hear His Voice and believe you can enter that rest

[lawman762]

@Acerrak What has this got to do with the Sabbath?? It seems you all think that you have something here and everyone likes to spout it but you do not understand it at all. The sabbaths here and most of the theologians agree are the many feasts also called sabbaths but the Sabbath of the LORD. You really should do more research and see what other scholars are saying.

[lawman762]

@Acerrak Yes, lets go into Hebrews

[Acerrak]

@lawman762 nah brother your set in your ways im set in mine im not going into this debate any further. That is all we do is try and use a scripture to trump another. if you dont understand col 2:16-18 and mathew 11:28-29 your not gonna get hebrews either.

God Bless you sir and have a Good night

[lawman762]

@Acerrak Your probably right there, GOD Bless you too, good night.

[Acerrak]

@lawman762 I mean you canot seperate ellen white from the sda church, if you did you church has nothing to stand on. it is built upon her. Im sorry that you cant see this and im sorry that you dont have a beter understanding of what Jesus ment when He said "it is Finished" and yes many in your church put ellens word forth as the word of God and is preached in the same manner. some have even asked why isnt it cannicalized.

[djconklin]

>Regardless of what anyone else says,

Well I go by Scripture.

>the bible tells us that God revealed his sabbath to Moses.

Interesting that you can't tell us where.

[Acerrak]

yes that is in exodus 31 starting from 12-18.

until that time there is no record of God stating to man to keep the sabbath,

Here we see the Lord stating 6 days shal you work but he seventh you wil rest, and this is tobe asign between God and te nation of Israel.

so now you have scripture to go by.

[djconklin]

>yes that is in exodus 31 starting from 12-18.

until that time there is no record of God stating to man to keep the sabbath,

Hmmm, forgot chapters 16 and 20.

[Windysmoke]

Loveyouallinheaven - I'm sorry, but I cannot make a video on amalgamation at this time. I do not have the research sufficient to do so. I encourage you to search this information out for yourself. God Bless,

Windysmoke

[thehuncher]

Well, I give you credit for trying to speak for SDA members, but as a third generation one for over 60 years, what you see here is not quite the truth. Yes, all of the ten commandments must be kept, but only if you want the real God to be your God. Remember, God does not 'shack up' and He is serious about the [marriage] covenant! Do you really want NEW truth? Google "The Bible On Trial" I dare you!

[Jason10221844]

"..those who reject God's memorial of creatorship - the Bible Sabbath - choosing to worship and honor Sunday in the full knowledge that it is not God's appointed day of worship, will receive the mark of the beast". This passage is taken from the book "Seventh-day Adventists Believe" about the fundamental beliefs of your church.  Your misconception # 13 is therefore not true.

[Windysmoke]

The passage you refer to states not that Sunday worship is actually the mark of the beast, but that those who worship on Sunday will receive the mark of the beast. The entirety of the information on this video was thoroughly researched. Also, do not assume that I am a part of the Adventist faith.

[an35tares]

@Jason10221844 So when you go to church that week and you worship God, pray and sing praises to him, you receive the mark of the authority of the god who is worshiped on the day of your meeting! Well, you see that it is a misinterpretation. So nothing in the Scriptures does not support this approach. So, do not go to church on Tuesday or Wednesday for fear of receiving a marking.

[Myhopeisinhim]

@an35tares

You make a good point. Wednesday you'd receive the mark of odin, thursday the mark of thor, saturday the mark of saturn, etc. They conveniently ignore these though.

[Myhopeisinhim]

oops forgot to finish....

They forget that each day is day that God has made, people can rejoice and be glad in them. He's not gonna cross you out because you are joyful on the first day of the week, a day that HE has made.

[lazbo4174]

nice video

[Wolua]

Great post, if only everyone was to watch it. There are some really awfull things on here about Seventh-Day Adventism from some seriously misinformed people who profess themselves to be Christian, but openly declare their 'hatred' of Seventh-Day Adventists.

May God work to show all people that we are all equal

[juttakarin]

Amen, Thank you for posting this on You Tube...It is amazing how ignorant people are about the Truth...