According to my vegetarian cooking book you can get vitamin b12 from 1.2 cups of milk or 3 slices of cheese per day. I don't know what her reasons were to turn vegan, but I guess she could have taken "the middle way" and comtinued to be 'lacto-vegetarian'. Still a meat-free diet but no risk for her to be deficient. About what she says in the end, that we are designed to eat meat, I know of a person who's allergic to it! We might look the same, but we obviously don't work exactly the same way!
@koharon75 I apologize for not being clearer. I speak of folks following the protocols that the leading edge raw foodists describe and many still get sick after a few years. The mistake is in the thinking that because sick people get well from a particular diet that its a diet to use for a lifetime. It's a complete experiment the raw food diet. No culture that we know of has done it in recorded history. And I see a lot of sick people from it.
What about puppy mills, abuse by pet owners (oh how i hate the word owners) or even euthanizing homeless pets? Someone mentioned India, well in India they kill a different genera from animal kingdom - female - fetuses/new borns. 2011 recorded the highest female infanticide there. I hope more people wake up to different forms of animal abuse carried out everyday. Human beings consider ourselves civilised but are we really? When we differentiate between needs and wants, we might be more humane.
Its surprising that Vegans only restrict their principles to eating animals & not extend it to other areas of animal abuse. Animals are abused in the name of urbanisation, scientific research, beauty and cosmetic research, for entertainment (zoos, circuses, resorts), for racing, for illegal traficcking of their body parts (tusks for ivory, musk perfumes, sea horses for medicinal properties). Animal abuse of every form should be stopped. Never heard a vegan speak of other forms of animal abuse.
@ainnhana I don't know where do you get your information, but vegans don't restrict their principles. They don't wear clothes that is made from an animal. Also check out the movie 'Eartlings' which has five parts, no. 1 is pets, and they also talk about zoo, rodeos, bull runs, etc.)). Also watch Gary Yourofsky's speech here on Youtube.
You need large amounts of greens everyday. If you weren't eating large amounts of greens everyday you would have been not feeling well on raw. You do not need animal proteins to be healthy start drinking green smoothies 3 times daily for six weeks then transition yourself back to vegan. I promise you will feel completely different. I have known many people who have felt this way then they started green smoothies and never felt better. Just please try. Humans were not designed to be meat eaters.
This is the most idiotic shit i've listened to in my life.. please SHOW ME WHAT SHE ATE DAILY and ill tell you why she so damn deficient in these vitamins specially b12 WOW! Raw Coconut oil has the most Vitamin E ever.. again these Commercial vegans don't know shitttt! I bet she doesn't even know about hemp oil or castor or even enemas or Sprouted Quinoa with all Amino Acids in it.. or even chia seeds.. what a sell out skinny dumb lady.. thanks for nothing
you guys are fucking lateeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! check out The Gerson Therapy by Dr.Max Gerson curing all disease since 1920's all ORganic Vegetarian DEtox diet nutrition filled food! Raw Foooddd!
You also makes the point that even if we weren't a vegan species in the past we may be evolving into it. In which case, by your own argument, to continue to eat meat would be to resist natural evolution.
you couldn't even remember your husband's name after been 99% vegan after only 7 years? That is so irregular as every vegan I know 10 years plus has excellent memory. Maybe there was a different factor coming into play that you were blaming on the veganism. Vitamin D deficiency is also found a lot in meat-eaters. If you are short of it, you need more sunlight or, as a last resort, supplementation - it is difficult to correct by diet alone - even for flesh-eaters.
I love the idea of raw food living but as a health care practitioner I see so many health problems in those after 2-3 years. Yikes!!! It might work in cold clients as I am in ny
@nyclear Just because someone is a raw foodist and eats primarily raw food; does not mean they will be healthy. There are many unhealthy nutrient dense raw foods that do not have the same positive health effects. For maximum health one needs to only eat fresh raw fruits and veggies with huge servings of greens everyday. Raw nuts should only be consumed sparingly. Raw chocolates, cakes, dehydrated foods, gourmet raw are usually bad for the health and should be avoided.
@nyclear As a health practitioner you should realize that there are many unhealthy vegetarians also, this does not mean that all vegetarians or vegans will be unhealthy, but there are many vegetarians for example who just eat pudding and french fries all day long. This does not mean that all vegetarians/ vegans are unhealthy. The same goes for raw foodists. I have seen many pig out on Nuts/ Agave/Honey/ Chocolates/fats/ oils These items are the junk food of raw food.
@TheRawPanda totally not making sense and missing my points by an eagerness to preach your zealotry. I'm primarily raw. We needs fruits, we need vegetables and many of us need grass feds and organic eggs. Being a raw foodist doesn't automatically mean you're a vegan. I've done a ton of my own research and listen to my body rather than listen to one or two health gurus preaching the same absolutist dogma.
@TheRawPanda bullshit. All food is "addictive" then. Show me the hard science behind that statement. Fruit is natural sugar aka glucose, which our brains also need...so what's your point?
Yo if being vegan was how we are all meant to be, then it wouldn't so difficult to be a healthy one. Veganism works out great for some people, but it ends in disaster for many others. Then you persecute former vegans who are clearly doing BETTER once integrating animal products? Insanity.
@astronautagogo It is not difficult to be a healthy Vegan; you just have to learn again what is healthy for the body to eat. Nothing could be more simple. Those former vegans who now eat meat would feel so much better if they started drinking 3 green smoothies a day for several weeks then transition back and see how you feel. I promise you don't need animal products. However if you want to eat animal products that is your choice. I am just giving you the choice. Try it sometime, prove me wrong
okay i have a real problem. i was a vegetarian, i ate veggi organic for years. theni got sick and had emergency surgery. i was septic and dying, unbeknownst to me and when i woke up in the hospital my colon had been removed. im sure my diet protected me for years from the symptoms of ulcerative colitis. i can no longer eat raw veggis or fruit except for smoothis and juice. i can not find any information on eating vegetarian or raw with out a colon to digest the fibres. pleez if u have info help
I'm all for trying all sorts of diets. Have a vegetarian meal one day, then have a raw vegan meal. Maybe only dedicate one to two days a week for meat. That way you're getting the best of all worlds- not to mention, you can eat turkey on Thanksgiving and still enjoy a hamburger on very rare occasions.
I don't believe in depriving yourself of the foods you love. Food is one of life's great pleasures. It brings people together. I'm sorry, but raw food is too limited to live off of.
I take fish oil for 3 years and have never lost a drop of weight because of it, silver bullet my ass. This women has lost any creditability with me. There are other factors going on with her health she isn't telling us.
@Zer0cropped Hey, just wanted to say that I think there are people who can maintain a vegan lifestyle for many years or for their entire life but it's not for everyone. Asians probably do very well on that diet because their food preparation probably don't consist on cleansing the food really well before eating it, like we do here in America, so because of that they are more than likely getting the nutrients they need from the bugs and soil that the food is grown in. That's what I have learned.
White meat is good for you. There is nothing wrong with eating meat, becoming a vegan is not only expensive, but as she explained, it is also risky. Why go all the trouble by not eating meat when you need it in the first place.
Funny situation. I've been vegetarian for 27 years and I extremely fit, doing trapeze acrobatics for the first time at 51 years old, now thriving at 52.
She was too busy making money talking about food to do a deep research on how to improve her digestion.
With good happy intestinal and oral flora she would have had the B12, K2 etc. OK as well as her digestion
Raw vegan diet do not work. Stop been so naive, that we are like monkeys. We can live on a vegan diet doing it so well. I tried the raw vegan and it do not work. Vegan diets works very well, in fact you lose one of the most nutrios thing on earth on raw, legumes. Roots also have b12. Vitamin d your body can make it if you have the right nuttients, Most likely you were lacking nutrients that can easily been found on cocke plant base diet. Stop been so naive. Cows have 4 stomach we boil/Steam food
Talk about cherry picking! Schenck's book excels at that! Why didn't you ask her why a book written only a few years ago had no research quoted less than 20 years old? Why didn't you ask her why she would include research done in the 1930s by the Nazis? Are those her most credible medical researchers? She says in the interview "the human body was not designed/does not do well on grains and dairy products", yet she says she eats cheese. Yeah, I know, goat cheese is completely different! Weak!!
@surfgeorge Schenck's book likely has little to no credibility- I haven't read it and don't plan to. Waste of time. This, I guess, is the 'problem' with the US health scene being inclusive of people who are not professionally qualified and who have no research skills. However, the point is the Schenk was willing to take stock and review a diet that was no longer serving her and to make the needed changes despite previous conviction. It's courageous and should be applauded.
@Lakkhesis1976 I don't applaud, nor consider courageous, someone who moves from one unwarranted (by lack of significant valid evidence) ideological position to another equally unwarranted ideological stand. Her evidence is all anecdotal, at best. When she does cite any kind of "research", she either distorts the true conclusion(s), cites something so out of date as to be laughable, or cites something of extremely low quality (i.e. methodologically extremely weak and likely invalid).
@Lakkhesis1976 So, for me, Schenck just went from being a very strong advocate of one position, without any substantial evidence, to another position, making equally strong unwarranted claims about her new view based upon nothing more than anecdotes and wishful thinking. I think she's a deluded ideologue with little to no critical thinking ability. Of course that's true for almost all the people I read advocating "alternative" health claims. There isn't much science happening there!
@Lakkhesis1976 Well, YOU used the word "nutshell", not me! ;) I'm just sayin'... A long long long time ago I sincerely wanted to be a believer. People promising control over issues that medical science had limited success in treating. Who doesn't want control? Then i made the mistake of actually researching the sources of the claims. That was the end of that. With the exception of a few herbs being moderately to slightly effective for several minor conditions, the rest appears to be quackery.
@surfgeorge Most people in the 'health scene' still haven't caught up with the fact that we now have access to full text journal articles/studies and that THESE are primary sources, and that 'some book in the 1970's said this' really doesn't cut the mustard. I agree that ALOT (though maybe not 'most') of 'it' is quackery, or at the very least completely and frustratingly insubstantiated. By the same token, I don't have a huge amount of faith in the scientific method either...
@Lakkhesis1976 Show me the methodologically competent double blinded peer reviewed research demonstrating that ANY so-called "alternative" or "integrative" modality is more efficacious than placebo! There isn't any! Even the people (like Dean Ornish) that appear to want to do something "scientific", don't seem to have the capacity to do it right, and/or overstate the results. Humans, even with the "scientific method", are prone to errors, fraud, bias and incompetence. What's second best?
@surfgeorge KINDA gotcha, except that the double blind study model completely discount how effective placebo actually IS, so it's an arbitrary comparison.
@Lakkhesis1976 Could you give an example of published research involving your above stated objection, even if it were valid in some way to some degree (which I don't believe there is any confirming evidence of such significance), that you believe demonstrates the effectiveness of ANY CAM/IM modality? Please be sure to give the actual citation so we can all look at the actual full paper.
@surfgeorge Ummm... How could a double blind study or research based on that model, which seems to be what you're after, demonstrate the effectiveness of PLACEBO??? Which was my point. What I'm suggesting is that a model based on comparing the effectiveness of a CAM/IM with the effectiveness of a placebo, when placebo is already estimated to have up to 70% efficacy in several chronic illnesses, be in any way relevant?
@Lakkhesis1976 1. So you are conceding that there is NO CAM/IM modality that functions better than an inert placebo. Glad to get that cleared up. 2. Please cite the research papers demonstrating placebo has 70% efficacy. 3. Please cite any research paper (even without blinding, placebos or controls) that you believe is methodologically sound and withstands critical scrutiny that demonstrates the effectiveness of ANY CAM/IM modality. 4. Please, cite the papers rather than just making assertions.
@surfgeorge Yowza- quite the commitment to the scientific method there! Sorry, but I've not got time to cite research papers to prove this point. You know, work to do, money to earn, that sort of thing.
well when she said she lacked vit b12 i remembered that (correct me if i'm wrong) it originally is produced from bacteria found meat (sad face) and on vegetables before you wash them. so.... if she was a raw vegan without the support of fortified foods and/or multivitamins i'm assuming her diet was destined to fail. her vitamin D deficiency could be the result of her not going out in the sun as much as she should and for not consuming fortified foods and multivitamins. i am a vegan, not raw :/
humans eat cooked food, meat especially, because some time ago our ancestors blood flow to the brain and jaw switched. Our jaws used to be powerful and now they are weak because larger amounts of blood was used for our cranium giving us bigger brains rather than bigger jaws. These incidences of cooked food and cranial capacity happened at the same time. We are not rats, rats are great but not a perfect substitute.
Diet fads are diet fads. Cooking does not really produce early death this is just kind of a silly thing. Does any have any documentation of this I mean we see these disections. I remember the 80% of caloric needs seems to make mice live longer if there were breawks in this diet.
Tonya Zavasta is a raw foodist and she seems to be really beautiful and healthy. Could the answer lay in fermented foods for B-12? What about sea vegetables ?
Because taking vitamins is not always an easy fix. With B12 there are many factors that come into play with absorbtion, very likley the intake was plenty but without the ablility to absorb it the problem still existed. Vegans don't understand that real problems can arise from cutting any and all meat out of thier diet. If you don't realize that cutting out 8 of our 22 esential amino acids can cause major problem you don't know how protine works and what an important role it plays.
Because taking vitamins is not always an easy fix. With B12 there are many factors that come into play with absorbtion, very likley the intake was plenty but without the ablility to absorb it the problem still existed. Vegans don't understand that real problems can arise from cutting any and all meat out of thier diet. If you don't realize that cutting out 8 of our 22 esential amino acids can cause major problem you don't know how protine works and what an important role it plays.
Because taking vitamins is not always an easy fix. With B12 there are many factors that come into play with absorbtion, very likley the intake was plenty but without the ablility to absorb it the problem still existed. Vegans don't understand that real problems can arise from cutting any and all meat out of thier diet. If you don't realize that cutting out 8 of our 22 esential amino acids can cause major problem you don't know how protine works and what an important role it plays.
Yes this is why I would NEVER recommend a raw vegan diet for any of my clients. I have been a trainer and nutritionist for 10 years and I think vegans are out of their mind. Straight up.
WOW, I can't believer how disrespectful many of you are. Have some class about what you have to say. There is no best diet, there is only the best diet for each person. What works for one person may not work for the next. Stop bashing people.Goodness~
raw vegan diet is best....she just didn't do to right....eating grains alone is one of her mistakes...also she dosn't look so healhty now....she looks older than 55...look at Tonya Zavaste who is 100% raw vegan ...I think she just turned 55 and looks 35!
the ability to cook food allowed us to go from wadling, bloated looking, heavy jawed, monkey things to the modern human. vegetarian and vegan diets work, for some people and raw diets can work for others as well but i think you need a good mix. some cooked food, some raw greens maybe some eggs and grains i dont think you need meat or dairy or anything resulting in the death of an animal for nutrition. anyway, all things in moderation no need for all one thing or all the other imho
@Missmadammozart the whole "everything in moderation" saying is BS. things good for you are good in moderation. things that are bad for you are ALWAYS bad for you. whether you drink a drop of gasoline or a glass full, it's still poison to your body. are you moderate in your drive by shootings, your child abuse, etc? get real.
@Missmadammozart we must be honest with ourselves and others when it comes to living healthfully. living by "everything in moderation" allows one to rationalize dangerous habits and behavior, thus it's a foolish motto. i'm sorry you feel my comment was out of hate, for i feel that expressing the errors of others is the loving thing to do. i'd be happy to hear your thoughts on the examples of moderation i gave in my last comment, unless insults is all you have to offer.
@AshaneX thank you for being so much more pleasnt in this comment. i will do my best to return the favor.
i aplogize for my previous reply but i dont think you understand how your comment "sounded" over lifeless text of the internet, in you former reply you spent the entire message talking down to me and insulting me because i chose to use an old syaing. this hardly seems like a "loving act" but i digress.
I have never seen "all things in moderation" as "ALL things in moderation" i have always veiwed it as all things you partake in.
examples-
trying to change eating habbits for a healthier life, good, eating only iceberg, celery, and cabbage because they have "negative" calories, not that good.
protecting a kid from some of the dangers of childhood, good. never vaccinating a child because of rumers, protecting his self esteem so he never feels loss or defeat. not so good
@Missmadammozart i see then that you agree that it's not such a good saying. that was my only point. i've personally seen people ruin their health and their lives by living by that motto, justifying self-destructive habits that turn into addictions, thinking they're living healthfully. that's why there was some anger in my first comment. i apologize again for the condescending tone. i just feel it's a dangerous way of thinking, especially for someone seeking to improve their health.
@AshaneX i'll admit it's situational, and thus flawed. as you pointed out there are things that just ought not be done. I too apologize for my tone and ofcourse language, i hope you will forgive me aswell.
i simply intended that more extreme diets like the raw vegan, cave man, cr diet, etc are infact very intense, and i think a more balenced diet would be preferable. given these are very different diets and i'm not bashing them i'm just saying they're intense.
@AshaneX Usain Bolt eats plenty of "Junk Food" because he burns it off. There is no such thing as junk food. Moderation is not BS. The human body copes perfectly well with moderation of any "Bad" food and can live a long life without almost no affect on live expectancy. Eating meat is essential for a full complement of nutrients without supplements.
Even alcohol at low levels has been proven to be beneficial in some ways.
@ojideagu Technically, 0% animal product can be a full complement. However, when calories from animal products drop below 10% of a person's calorie intake, it starts to take planning what to eat. Planning becomes hard when it reaches 5% or below. Same goes if calories from animal product is very high because then he/she has to plan for fiber, vit C and etc.
I am not a planning type, and there are many vegetables I hate to eat. So meat is a part of my diet.
@ojideagu oh yeah? care to elaborate on what "essential" nutrients we can only get from eating meat? looking forward to the answer for that. and sure, the human body can cope with all sorts of abuse. have you ever read The China Study? almost all forms of disease and cancer stem from the consumption of animal products (cholesterol). our physiology matches that of all other herbivores in nature, such as our long intestinal length, which simply isn't designed to digest meat like carnivores.
@AshaneX Vitamin K is only in meat. Every different protein and amino acid we need is only found in meat and eggs. Plants do not contain them all. Every Vitamin B type is only found in meat and dairy.
Humans evolved COOKING which no other animal did. This enabled us to eat meat without needing a carnivore's digestive system. Cooking enabled us to only need a small mouth and teeth.
Animals that live mostly on plants need massive jaws which limits brain size and they must eat 10 hours a day.
@ojideagu lol, kale has TONS of vitamin K. look it up. haha, every single amino acid can only be found in meat/eggs? meat can only provide nine of the essential amino acids, whereas plants can provide ALL 18. get your facts straight. we're such huge meat eaters in the US, yet 39% of the US have B12 issues. bananas are a great source of B vitamins, as well as many other plant sources. i guess my brain must be so small from eating plants and i don't have time to research facts like meat eaters!
@AshaneX Vitamin K2 is not in Plant matter to be exact, Vitamin K is. You are totally inaccurate about amino acids. Meat contains ALL the essential amino acids.
Banana's have only been available to the west for 100 years, what would you have done before
@ojideagu actually i'm not inaccurate. unprocessed starches (eg, rice, corn, potatoes, beans), with the addition of vegetables and fruits, supplies all the protein, amino acids, essential fats, minerals, and vitamins (except B12) necessary. you're right that K2 can't be found in plant sources, but your body can convert K1 to K2 by bacteria in the small intestines. non-issue. if bananas weren't available, i'd be eating one of the many other sources of B vitamins found in nature.
@ojideagu yes, i said that meat contains all nine ESSENTIAL amino acids. a complete protein can be made by combining multiple plant sources, as i stated in my last comment. so in addition to the nine essential amino acids, plants contain ALL 18 amino acids that exist.
you need to do some actual research instead of just parroting what you've been told and ignoring the other scientific evidence that exists.
@AshaneX To get all the amino acids from plants you need a very expansive and convoluted diet compared to meat eaters and a far greater quantity. Many populations of people don't have access to that range of food unless they are in a wealthy country. Many populations only have a narrow range of crops they can grow.
Nobody said humans shouldn't eat plants, but meat means a far simpler regime is needed to be eaten to full fill humans needs.
@ojideagu not really bro. my diet is actually probably much simpler than yours. i eat mono meals of fruit for breakfast/lunch and salad for dinner, and i'm meeting all my nutrient needs according to the CRON-O-METER software. can you same the same thing with certainty about your diet? and many populations thrive on starch based diets (rice, corn, barley, wheat, etc). meat is used very sparingly in the typical Chinese diet, for instance, and in India most are vegetarian.
@ojideagu so the whole factory farming thing and all the greenhouse gases that produces, using 50% of the world's fossil fuel, using 75% of the world's grain production to feed those animals, is a far simpler regime than someone living off their own garden? we also don't have the same physiology as true carnivores. the meat always becomes rancid by the time it passes through our intestines. that's why meat eaters' shit stinks so bad.
"Most meats contain a full complement of the amino acids required for the human diet. Fruits and vegetables, by contrast, sometimes lack several essential amino acids contained in meat. It is for this reason that people who abstain from eating all meat need to plan their diet more carefully to include vegetarian sources of all the necessary amino acids"
@ojideagu lol, that quote actually refutes your point that meat is the only source for all essential amino acids. i'm one of those who carefully includes all the necessary vegetarian sources like that quote says. here's a quote from the complete protein article on wikipedia: "All the essential amino acids can be obtained on their own from various everyday plant sources." speaking of protein, broccoli has TWICE the amount of protein than meat, calorie for calorie, without the fat and cholesterol.
@ojideagu lol vitamin k is present on lettuce, carrots and a lot of veggies. Well i do not agree with raw vegan, but vegan is awesome. Have you forget pulses (legumes)?? Lentis with rice. I been building muscle with that. On 3 months i gain 15 kilos of lean muscle. Dude the commento you give was a little dumb, but i agree that all the raw thing is just idiology
@AshaneX All forms of cancer do not stem from eating animal products, that is utter vegan propaganda. Not eating meat contributes far more problems to humans than a 1% chance of cancer. Only in modern agriculture are you even able to live from a Vegan diet. Thanks to our evolution which was only possible because our ancestors ate meat.
@ojideagu 1% chance huh? lol, care to share where you got that statistic? and note that i said MOST cancer, try reading harder. what kinds of problems does not eating meat cause? it takes 16lbs of vegetation to yield 1lb of beef. you've got it backwards bro. only with modern factory farming are YOU even able to live off a diet including meat. people have been living off raw foods since the beginning of man. fruit trees and such have always provided a habitat for animals, unlike grain/meat farms.
Thanks so much guys for honest interviews like these so that people who have tried and have not been able to thrive on the Raw food diet don´t feel alienated and alone. Keep them coming, please.
i perfectly understand where she's coming from ... i was vegetarian for 3 years with a period of several months of vegan ... i had memory loss, bloating, weight gain, low energy and at some point i really craved meat and eggs...for the first 2 weeks i started eating meat and eggs again i felt reborn! massive improvement!
You're going to cause a ruckus using the statement 'vegetarianism and veganism don't work...' instead, you should have said that it didn't work FOR YOU. Everyone is different, and it's about what's best for YOU.... even if that means eating meat and eggs. [=
Yeah I find it very interesting what Durianrider said about her diet including a LOT of fat, and according to him actually being pretty low carb. This is rarely a recommended combination and I also consider it no surprise she went downhill. The memory loss is due to a lack of glycogen to the brain I would imagine.
if Susan was having a high fat raw food diet, and not doing regular exercise to keep in shape, and had had drugs and trauma to her body from her life thus far, then her b12 absorption and general health would absolutely be compromised. sleep, rest, exercise - all very important as well as diet :)
Susan Schenk is a nice person but just confused and thought calorie restriction was healthy lol! She literally starved herself all the way back to dog and cat food.
Check out the response video to this on 'durianriders' channel.
Susan Schenk has a fat gut and cant even run around the block at pace. I wouldnt call that healthy! :(
@durianrider Shenck reviewed her dietary choices and changed the things that weren't working. Your stubborn commitment to a bizarre, orthorexic regime despite your diabetic symptoms and visually depleting vitality is not something to aspire to.
Don't make assumptions about her weight or fitness levels. And don't reply to this post with an assumption that I'm a '600 pound whale huckster' in your usual form. It's simply not true, and doesn't cut it.
Well I personally know one man who got healed from lateral sclerosis after removing with a raw vegan diet all the heavy metals and toxins from his body. Everyone has to test what's is best for his situation. B12 supplementation is another thing that is highly recommended. Look what Doctor Clement says about it. Mental programming and training is another key issue. The mind rules over all bodily functions so if you are not detoxifying your brain and thoughts your cells won' work properly.
let's mesmerize a group of horse, and market to them the idea that in order to be cool and high class they need to give up on grass (their natural food source) and switch over to eating asphalt. I think some of you marketing folks can even come up with a cool campaign to make it happen. That misses the point that the health impacts of eating stuff you are not supposed to are Obvious. So let's look into the crystal ball and determine what Humans are designed to eat. A clue, it does not moo!
@traveln3 you hit the nail on the head. genetics or Genotype as I like to say, have everything to do with it. It is all about Bio-chemical individuality
@cool555breeze Because we are not Tigers. Do Tigers wear clothes, jewelry or make up? Do Tigers live in houses, ride horses and drive cars? Let's keep it in context and talk about HUMANS and what HUMANS have done generation after generation. And no where on the planet will you find a vegan society who reproduced for generations. AND some people in the world do eat raw meat.
@TheBodyScientist81 Raw meat can kill you by parasites though. However, what vegans do NOT know is that carnivorous wild animals can and do die that way too. Circle of life.
Nothing against Susan in particular... but I am amazed and saddened by the masses of people who are all "research" and very little actual REAL APPLIED long term experience. Mostly talk and not action. Words words words. Most people have become perpetual robotic seekers instead of buckling down with a plan, doing it, and getting results. BIG CHANGES not little "health improvements"... What starts as discipline (which few have) then becomes a pleasure (which few ever enjoy...)
all that intake of meat and "brain food" has not help the author. if you listen closely to the interview, she's still not mentally sharp, still appear to suffer from brain fog, saying "uh"s a lot, and forgetting things throughout the entire interview. and this is her discussing issues in her field of expertise.
all the research says something different. perhaps different bodies and minds are meant to have different diets and there is no one way for any people.
@michel43garcia - that's the whole point, thank you for validating what I said. The only reason vegans get to live now is that their unhealthy dietary habits are supported by veggies and grains grown from oil. As soon as oil goes away, then modern ag collapses and billions starve. In that kind of highly competitive survival environment, only those that are willing to take advantage of the high nutrient density of meat (where animals concentrate solar energy) will survive. Plant energy = fail.
@MrFinger8r LOOOOOOOL okae captian confusion . backwards much ? enjoy your dead carcus meat while indulging in the dillusion its got ANY nutritional value . Oh yeah ,, remember tho that you can only eat HERBIVORES,, Because you need the nutrition they have in them from the PLANTS they eat LOOOOL retard . that meat is slowing down your logical mind lOOOl
@WhiteGlitterTV - In all of history, there has never been a vegetarian society that has survived more than a couple generations. We are not evolved to get our nutritional needs met from plants alone. We need the fats that animals make from plants and concentrate in their bodies. The animal eats a thousand plants, we eat the animal. If we try to get it direct from plants we could never get enough to survive. It all comes back to oil. You are young, so remember this when civilization fails.
@WhiteGlitterTV -When the oil is gone and cities collapse and you find yourself starving, kill and eat animals or you will die. Get out of the city, go north, away from the heat that will inevitably come and bake everywhere south of Canada. Stay away from the low-lying coastline where most people live. This will happen in your lifetime. Learn to hunt. Learn to hide. More danger and trouble will come from other humans than from the wild, although weather will be the biggest challenge. You'll see.
@MrFinger8r I do know how to hunt and survive, and when the time comes, believe me, I will. BUT have you seen where your so-called meat comes from these days? I refuse to put corporate-farmed, drug-fed, life-of-suffering animals in my body while I have a choice. End of story. :-)
I do know how to hunt and survive, and when the time comes, believe me, I will. BUT have you seen where your so-called meat comes from these days? I refuse to put corporate-farmed, drug-fed, life-of-suffering animals in my body while I have a choice. End of story. :-)
@cool555breeze Yep, I agree completely and wouldn't eat that crap either, not just because it's nutritionally poor, but because it is ethically appalling to support CAFOs and the corporations that spawn them. That's why I only eat grass-fed and locally grown meats from local farmers that I know personally, or from animals that I hunt myself. Right there with ya about all that.
@MrFinger8r Totally respect that! I so wish more people would take responsibility for understanding their food and where it comes from. The meat industry has been working very hard to make the masses think that hamburger comes from McDonald's, without a second thought about the actual production. And nothing that has lived its life in fear, fed garbage, shot up with drugs and died horribly can be good for you to eat. All that is passed on to you, the consumer. Many studies to back that up, too.
You have to take B12 by injection for it to be effective..not in supplement form as the stomach acids render it useless. This is what we were taught in nursing school..you can look it up..personally I think eating raw food as soon as it is picked is the healthiest way to get your "live food"..once anything is picked it starts to die or decay. Best to grow you own organic food. But on the subject of meat..we were born with both a set of canines and molars for both meat tearing & veg grinding.
@kokonutbaby1 You have to take B12 by injection for it to be effective... yeah, right. Did you learned that from your allophatic professor (probably an MD) who happens to be a drug pusher from pharmaceuticals??? I have never take B12 by injection and I have the memory of an elefant.
@smr144 Really? that must be why you spelled elephant wrong, lol..I suggest you look up B12 injections and or B12 deficiencies..you have to have lab work to determine if yours is normal or not..you can't go by the way you think you feel..sheesh! And no, I learned it in nursing school..try reading, it helps, lol
@kokonutbaby1 Stop blowing smoke up your ass kokonutbaby. How the hell do you think humans survived for thousands of years? With B12 injections? I think not. The human body can adequately absorb B12 through supplementation or proper diet. Any medical doctor can attest to this through standardized B12 testing via blood work. Some supplements that are affected by stomach acid are now ENTERIC COATED. When did you go to "nursing school" in the 30's?
It's very scary that this woman writes books. She says she was B12 deficient. 40% of people are B12 deficient. It's one vitamin that all people should take each day. She said she was Vit D deficient. A lot of people are, the best Vit D is the sun, just get sun and you will have no problem. Then she said her memory was deteriorating. Take hemp oil or flax oil and your body will convert omega 3 into epa and dha. Most of India, one sixth of the world population are vegetarians.
@SpaceWalkTraveller India may not be the best example. If you have ever been to India you may understand that their logic and organisational skills are mind bogglingly poor. Maybe they are more like 90% b12 defficiant.
@tblaxxable 90% of Indian's are B12 deficient ??? Can you tell me where you got that information from? Thats a new one! Yes I spent four months travelling in India and yes they have a different way of doing things and it works for them.
@Lakkhesis1976 Yes! I feel incredible, thanks for asking! :) I celebrated my one year vegan versary in June. I've gotten so good at food preparation and I've learnt SO much about health and nutrition!
Now, as far as raw food goes, I could be doing better with that. I do eat a whole foods diet, though, of course :)
@MarmaladeMonster That's cool: you must be doing it right for you right now. However, don't ever close yourself off to honestly reviewing your diet and whether its still working in the future.
@Lakkhesis1976 A plant-based diet done right is healthier than an animal-based diet done right. A plant-based diet done wrong is healthier than an animal-based diet done wrong (Of course, neither of those are healthy).
I've read books, countless articles, reports, watched documentaries... I've learnt quite a bit, and I've made a very educated stance on this subject.
One thing about veganism is that many wind up eating tons of processed foods, though. Not good.
@MarmaladeMonster Agreed: not good. I've done similar research to you, in addition to formally studying nutritrition at university level. I don't believe that veganism is a good health-based choice, but that it can be done relatively successfully some time if that's your ethical stance.
Ultimately, the one resounding truth in ALL sound nutritional theory is very simple: WHOLEFOODS.
@Lakkhesis1976 Speaking from personal experience and what others have said, giving up animal products does make a very big difference in energy levels, skin health, and overall health.
Have you read the book, The China Study? I'm only 1/2 way done, but it's very fascinating. The author, Campbell, Ph.D, talks about his research on nutrition regarding animal vs. plant diets.
I, for one, advocate a local, biodynamic diet over a vegan one. But I do firmly believe veganism is healthier.
@MarmaladeMonster TCS is often cited as 'proof' for the efficacy of veganism, but it carries vital flaws. The most significant is that none of the populations researched in TCS were vegan. ALL included animal products in varying quantities. TCS proves that increasing plant based foods in the diet is beneficial for health, but it does not then follow that an *exclusively* plant-based diet is 'better'. Campbells book is his interpretation of the study, with glaring omissions and manipulations.
@Lakkhesis1976 Yes, but his main point is that the less included, the better. Any manipulative phrasing can easily be surpassed by intuitive reading, allowing the reader to step back and ask questions- a tool vital for any worthy debate.
I know people from both ends of the meat vs. vegan spectrum who believe eveything seen, heard, or read that supports their particular stance. This is a closed-minded and petty practice that many seem to do. I regard both sides, and I have made my choice.
@MarmaladeMonster But the 'less animal products included the better' part isn't substantiated by the actual study. The 'more plant based foods the better' part IS. I could use the actual data gathered in the study to 'prove' that animal foods are, in fact, essential to human health. The study itself (not Campbells BOOK) is HUGE; he has cherry picked and that's really important to remember.
It's great that you're able to regard both sides and make a choice from there.
@Lakkhesis1976 Only a certain number of calories are needed, so I feel the two terms are interchangeable to a good extent. Also not that Campbell specifically says in his book that what he discusses are observations and correlations. It is near impossible to find a persistent causation. Also, for the study, if he had included every oberservation, his book would have been even more huge!
@MarmaladeMonster No, no, no... Calories aren't the issue here. You absolutely cannot claim that 'more plant-based foods is beneficial' is synonymous with 'less animal foods is better'. This is the FUNDAMENTAL error of TCS. What Campbell has given is effectively a preamble that won't mean anything to most readers, who don't understand the difference between 'correlation' and 'causation'. You're better off spending time reading the actual study than Campbell's diet book.
this is really boring, meateaters are often deficient in b12 and vitamin d3. due to their poor absorption capacities.
cafeaulait69 16 hours ago
It is unnatural.....a cult.........the Vegancult!!!
Whatever you do......do not force this dreck onto your innocent kids.
tickyul 5 days ago
According to my vegetarian cooking book you can get vitamin b12 from 1.2 cups of milk or 3 slices of cheese per day. I don't know what her reasons were to turn vegan, but I guess she could have taken "the middle way" and comtinued to be 'lacto-vegetarian'. Still a meat-free diet but no risk for her to be deficient. About what she says in the end, that we are designed to eat meat, I know of a person who's allergic to it! We might look the same, but we obviously don't work exactly the same way!
klubbkid 2 weeks ago
@klubbkid In general, the biological availability of nutrients in animal-foods is much higher than non-animal foods.
tickyul 5 days ago
My thoughts: wow, common sense... how rare these days. Thanks for posting this even though it probably contradicts your own belief system.
amivag77 3 weeks ago
fruits are natural food
ep95409 3 weeks ago
I belive sugar is bad and even eating to mutch fruit is unhealty because of all the fruit sugar. natural food is healthy.
fettkatt87 1 month ago
@koharon75 I apologize for not being clearer. I speak of folks following the protocols that the leading edge raw foodists describe and many still get sick after a few years. The mistake is in the thinking that because sick people get well from a particular diet that its a diet to use for a lifetime. It's a complete experiment the raw food diet. No culture that we know of has done it in recorded history. And I see a lot of sick people from it.
nyclear 1 month ago
What about puppy mills, abuse by pet owners (oh how i hate the word owners) or even euthanizing homeless pets? Someone mentioned India, well in India they kill a different genera from animal kingdom - female - fetuses/new borns. 2011 recorded the highest female infanticide there. I hope more people wake up to different forms of animal abuse carried out everyday. Human beings consider ourselves civilised but are we really? When we differentiate between needs and wants, we might be more humane.
ainnhana 1 month ago
Its surprising that Vegans only restrict their principles to eating animals & not extend it to other areas of animal abuse. Animals are abused in the name of urbanisation, scientific research, beauty and cosmetic research, for entertainment (zoos, circuses, resorts), for racing, for illegal traficcking of their body parts (tusks for ivory, musk perfumes, sea horses for medicinal properties). Animal abuse of every form should be stopped. Never heard a vegan speak of other forms of animal abuse.
ainnhana 1 month ago
@ainnhana I don't know where do you get your information, but vegans don't restrict their principles. They don't wear clothes that is made from an animal. Also check out the movie 'Eartlings' which has five parts, no. 1 is pets, and they also talk about zoo, rodeos, bull runs, etc.)). Also watch Gary Yourofsky's speech here on Youtube.
evenorbertvilaga 3 weeks ago
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ainnhana 1 month ago
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ainnhana 1 month ago
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ainnhana 1 month ago
You need large amounts of greens everyday. If you weren't eating large amounts of greens everyday you would have been not feeling well on raw. You do not need animal proteins to be healthy start drinking green smoothies 3 times daily for six weeks then transition yourself back to vegan. I promise you will feel completely different. I have known many people who have felt this way then they started green smoothies and never felt better. Just please try. Humans were not designed to be meat eaters.
koharon75 1 month ago
This is the most idiotic shit i've listened to in my life.. please SHOW ME WHAT SHE ATE DAILY and ill tell you why she so damn deficient in these vitamins specially b12 WOW! Raw Coconut oil has the most Vitamin E ever.. again these Commercial vegans don't know shitttt! I bet she doesn't even know about hemp oil or castor or even enemas or Sprouted Quinoa with all Amino Acids in it.. or even chia seeds.. what a sell out skinny dumb lady.. thanks for nothing
IlluminatedAnuit11 1 month ago
@IlluminatedAnuit11 Yeah, the diet did not work for her.......so the Veganculters must throw vile at her.
Little message for members of The Vegancult.......this diet is impractical and undesirable for 99.9999999999% of the population.
tickyul 2 days ago
commercial vegans.. Jesus you guys are SOOOO DAMN STUPID!
IlluminatedAnuit11 1 month ago
you guys are fucking lateeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! check out The Gerson Therapy by Dr.Max Gerson curing all disease since 1920's all ORganic Vegetarian DEtox diet nutrition filled food! Raw Foooddd!
IlluminatedAnuit11 1 month ago
@IlluminatedAnuit11 Vegetarian..
IlluminatedAnuit11 1 month ago
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ainnhana 1 month ago
You also makes the point that even if we weren't a vegan species in the past we may be evolving into it. In which case, by your own argument, to continue to eat meat would be to resist natural evolution.
MetalMistress888 1 month ago
you couldn't even remember your husband's name after been 99% vegan after only 7 years? That is so irregular as every vegan I know 10 years plus has excellent memory. Maybe there was a different factor coming into play that you were blaming on the veganism. Vitamin D deficiency is also found a lot in meat-eaters. If you are short of it, you need more sunlight or, as a last resort, supplementation - it is difficult to correct by diet alone - even for flesh-eaters.
MetalMistress888 1 month ago
@Zer0cropped -- You mean 100's of millions of "sometimes" vegans in Asia -- where's "Asia?" hahahahaha.
OctoBox 1 month ago
I love the idea of raw food living but as a health care practitioner I see so many health problems in those after 2-3 years. Yikes!!! It might work in cold clients as I am in ny
nyclear 1 month ago
@nyclear Just because someone is a raw foodist and eats primarily raw food; does not mean they will be healthy. There are many unhealthy nutrient dense raw foods that do not have the same positive health effects. For maximum health one needs to only eat fresh raw fruits and veggies with huge servings of greens everyday. Raw nuts should only be consumed sparingly. Raw chocolates, cakes, dehydrated foods, gourmet raw are usually bad for the health and should be avoided.
koharon75 1 month ago
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koharon75 1 month ago
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@nyclear As a health practitioner you should realize that there are many unhealthy vegetarians also, this does not mean that all vegetarians or vegans will be unhealthy, but there are many vegetarians for example who just eat pudding and french fries all day long. This does not mean that all vegetarians/ vegans are unhealthy. The same goes for raw foodists. I have seen many pig out on Nuts/ Agave/Honey/ Chocolates/fats/ oils These items are the junk food of raw food.
koharon75 1 month ago
fish is good
IdaSputum 1 month ago
supplement
lge4590 1 month ago
@TheRawPanda totally not making sense and missing my points by an eagerness to preach your zealotry. I'm primarily raw. We needs fruits, we need vegetables and many of us need grass feds and organic eggs. Being a raw foodist doesn't automatically mean you're a vegan. I've done a ton of my own research and listen to my body rather than listen to one or two health gurus preaching the same absolutist dogma.
astronautagogo 1 month ago
@TheRawPanda bullshit. All food is "addictive" then. Show me the hard science behind that statement. Fruit is natural sugar aka glucose, which our brains also need...so what's your point?
astronautagogo 1 month ago
@astronautagogo LMAO, I said nothing about fruit! Eat more fruit!! lol XD...
Cooked food is an ADDICTION...
No one is gonna spoonfeed lazy people information that they could do themselves... Do your own homework..
TheRawPanda 1 month ago
Yo if being vegan was how we are all meant to be, then it wouldn't so difficult to be a healthy one. Veganism works out great for some people, but it ends in disaster for many others. Then you persecute former vegans who are clearly doing BETTER once integrating animal products? Insanity.
astronautagogo 2 months ago 2
@astronautagogo Meat, especially red meat, has an effect on the part of the brain that handles 'addiction'... that's why it's hard for most people...
TheRawPanda 1 month ago
@TheRawPanda Where are you getting your facts? That's completely made up.
punchdrunkatheist 1 month ago
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koharon75 1 month ago
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@astronautagogo It is not difficult to be a healthy Vegan; you just have to learn again what is healthy for the body to eat. Nothing could be more simple. Those former vegans who now eat meat would feel so much better if they started drinking 3 green smoothies a day for several weeks then transition back and see how you feel. I promise you don't need animal products. However if you want to eat animal products that is your choice. I am just giving you the choice. Try it sometime, prove me wrong
koharon75 1 month ago
@Zer0cropped do they use honey or anything?
kuwaizair 2 months ago
oh no. this is going to turn into a mess. care2 is the best place to learn about veganism. the users are wise beyond wise. XD
kuwaizair 2 months ago
okay i have a real problem. i was a vegetarian, i ate veggi organic for years. theni got sick and had emergency surgery. i was septic and dying, unbeknownst to me and when i woke up in the hospital my colon had been removed. im sure my diet protected me for years from the symptoms of ulcerative colitis. i can no longer eat raw veggis or fruit except for smoothis and juice. i can not find any information on eating vegetarian or raw with out a colon to digest the fibres. pleez if u have info help
screaminmeani 2 months ago
I'm all for trying all sorts of diets. Have a vegetarian meal one day, then have a raw vegan meal. Maybe only dedicate one to two days a week for meat. That way you're getting the best of all worlds- not to mention, you can eat turkey on Thanksgiving and still enjoy a hamburger on very rare occasions.
I don't believe in depriving yourself of the foods you love. Food is one of life's great pleasures. It brings people together. I'm sorry, but raw food is too limited to live off of.
ValtronW 2 months ago
I take fish oil for 3 years and have never lost a drop of weight because of it, silver bullet my ass. This women has lost any creditability with me. There are other factors going on with her health she isn't telling us.
neight78 2 months ago
@Zer0cropped Hey, just wanted to say that I think there are people who can maintain a vegan lifestyle for many years or for their entire life but it's not for everyone. Asians probably do very well on that diet because their food preparation probably don't consist on cleansing the food really well before eating it, like we do here in America, so because of that they are more than likely getting the nutrients they need from the bugs and soil that the food is grown in. That's what I have learned.
CrazySeriousLisa 2 months ago
White meat is good for you. There is nothing wrong with eating meat, becoming a vegan is not only expensive, but as she explained, it is also risky. Why go all the trouble by not eating meat when you need it in the first place.
latinlover973 2 months ago
Funny situation. I've been vegetarian for 27 years and I extremely fit, doing trapeze acrobatics for the first time at 51 years old, now thriving at 52.
She was too busy making money talking about food to do a deep research on how to improve her digestion.
With good happy intestinal and oral flora she would have had the B12, K2 etc. OK as well as her digestion
marioques 3 months ago
@marioques Absolutelt right!! Another very well informed comment!! :D
TheRawPanda 1 month ago
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Veganism/vegetarianism rules. Please check this video! /watch?v=QdDVe0nZqNY
haridham 3 months ago
Raw vegan diet do not work. Stop been so naive, that we are like monkeys. We can live on a vegan diet doing it so well. I tried the raw vegan and it do not work. Vegan diets works very well, in fact you lose one of the most nutrios thing on earth on raw, legumes. Roots also have b12. Vitamin d your body can make it if you have the right nuttients, Most likely you were lacking nutrients that can easily been found on cocke plant base diet. Stop been so naive. Cows have 4 stomach we boil/Steam food
irlumir 3 months ago
Talk about cherry picking! Schenck's book excels at that! Why didn't you ask her why a book written only a few years ago had no research quoted less than 20 years old? Why didn't you ask her why she would include research done in the 1930s by the Nazis? Are those her most credible medical researchers? She says in the interview "the human body was not designed/does not do well on grains and dairy products", yet she says she eats cheese. Yeah, I know, goat cheese is completely different! Weak!!
surfgeorge 4 months ago
@surfgeorge Schenck's book likely has little to no credibility- I haven't read it and don't plan to. Waste of time. This, I guess, is the 'problem' with the US health scene being inclusive of people who are not professionally qualified and who have no research skills. However, the point is the Schenk was willing to take stock and review a diet that was no longer serving her and to make the needed changes despite previous conviction. It's courageous and should be applauded.
Lakkhesis1976 4 months ago
@Lakkhesis1976 I don't applaud, nor consider courageous, someone who moves from one unwarranted (by lack of significant valid evidence) ideological position to another equally unwarranted ideological stand. Her evidence is all anecdotal, at best. When she does cite any kind of "research", she either distorts the true conclusion(s), cites something so out of date as to be laughable, or cites something of extremely low quality (i.e. methodologically extremely weak and likely invalid).
surfgeorge 4 months ago
@surfgeorge As I said, I haven't read the book and I have no doubts that you're right about its poor credibility.
Lakkhesis1976 4 months ago
@Lakkhesis1976 So, for me, Schenck just went from being a very strong advocate of one position, without any substantial evidence, to another position, making equally strong unwarranted claims about her new view based upon nothing more than anecdotes and wishful thinking. I think she's a deluded ideologue with little to no critical thinking ability. Of course that's true for almost all the people I read advocating "alternative" health claims. There isn't much science happening there!
surfgeorge 4 months ago
@surfgeorge Heh, heh... You've just put alot of the 'health scene' into a nutshell right there :)
Lakkhesis1976 4 months ago
@Lakkhesis1976 Well, YOU used the word "nutshell", not me! ;) I'm just sayin'... A long long long time ago I sincerely wanted to be a believer. People promising control over issues that medical science had limited success in treating. Who doesn't want control? Then i made the mistake of actually researching the sources of the claims. That was the end of that. With the exception of a few herbs being moderately to slightly effective for several minor conditions, the rest appears to be quackery.
surfgeorge 4 months ago
@surfgeorge Most people in the 'health scene' still haven't caught up with the fact that we now have access to full text journal articles/studies and that THESE are primary sources, and that 'some book in the 1970's said this' really doesn't cut the mustard. I agree that ALOT (though maybe not 'most') of 'it' is quackery, or at the very least completely and frustratingly insubstantiated. By the same token, I don't have a huge amount of faith in the scientific method either...
Lakkhesis1976 4 months ago
@Lakkhesis1976 Show me the methodologically competent double blinded peer reviewed research demonstrating that ANY so-called "alternative" or "integrative" modality is more efficacious than placebo! There isn't any! Even the people (like Dean Ornish) that appear to want to do something "scientific", don't seem to have the capacity to do it right, and/or overstate the results. Humans, even with the "scientific method", are prone to errors, fraud, bias and incompetence. What's second best?
surfgeorge 3 months ago
@surfgeorge KINDA gotcha, except that the double blind study model completely discount how effective placebo actually IS, so it's an arbitrary comparison.
Lakkhesis1976 3 months ago
@Lakkhesis1976 Could you give an example of published research involving your above stated objection, even if it were valid in some way to some degree (which I don't believe there is any confirming evidence of such significance), that you believe demonstrates the effectiveness of ANY CAM/IM modality? Please be sure to give the actual citation so we can all look at the actual full paper.
surfgeorge 3 months ago
@surfgeorge Ummm... How could a double blind study or research based on that model, which seems to be what you're after, demonstrate the effectiveness of PLACEBO??? Which was my point. What I'm suggesting is that a model based on comparing the effectiveness of a CAM/IM with the effectiveness of a placebo, when placebo is already estimated to have up to 70% efficacy in several chronic illnesses, be in any way relevant?
Lakkhesis1976 3 months ago
@Lakkhesis1976 1. So you are conceding that there is NO CAM/IM modality that functions better than an inert placebo. Glad to get that cleared up. 2. Please cite the research papers demonstrating placebo has 70% efficacy. 3. Please cite any research paper (even without blinding, placebos or controls) that you believe is methodologically sound and withstands critical scrutiny that demonstrates the effectiveness of ANY CAM/IM modality. 4. Please, cite the papers rather than just making assertions.
surfgeorge 3 months ago
@surfgeorge Yowza- quite the commitment to the scientific method there! Sorry, but I've not got time to cite research papers to prove this point. You know, work to do, money to earn, that sort of thing.
Lakkhesis1976 3 months ago
Smart woman!! SO happy to hear that raw fooders (like I used to be) are getting smart about what our evolution is designed to eat.
lilithe69 4 months ago
well when she said she lacked vit b12 i remembered that (correct me if i'm wrong) it originally is produced from bacteria found meat (sad face) and on vegetables before you wash them. so.... if she was a raw vegan without the support of fortified foods and/or multivitamins i'm assuming her diet was destined to fail. her vitamin D deficiency could be the result of her not going out in the sun as much as she should and for not consuming fortified foods and multivitamins. i am a vegan, not raw :/
Ghost202587 4 months ago
humans eat cooked food, meat especially, because some time ago our ancestors blood flow to the brain and jaw switched. Our jaws used to be powerful and now they are weak because larger amounts of blood was used for our cranium giving us bigger brains rather than bigger jaws. These incidences of cooked food and cranial capacity happened at the same time. We are not rats, rats are great but not a perfect substitute.
TheKazdorf 4 months ago
Diet fads are diet fads. Cooking does not really produce early death this is just kind of a silly thing. Does any have any documentation of this I mean we see these disections. I remember the 80% of caloric needs seems to make mice live longer if there were breawks in this diet.
izelxx1 4 months ago
Tonya Zavasta is a raw foodist and she seems to be really beautiful and healthy. Could the answer lay in fermented foods for B-12? What about sea vegetables ?
kayjo61 4 months ago
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Because taking vitamins is not always an easy fix. With B12 there are many factors that come into play with absorbtion, very likley the intake was plenty but without the ablility to absorb it the problem still existed. Vegans don't understand that real problems can arise from cutting any and all meat out of thier diet. If you don't realize that cutting out 8 of our 22 esential amino acids can cause major problem you don't know how protine works and what an important role it plays.
lukethibodaux 5 months ago
Because taking vitamins is not always an easy fix. With B12 there are many factors that come into play with absorbtion, very likley the intake was plenty but without the ablility to absorb it the problem still existed. Vegans don't understand that real problems can arise from cutting any and all meat out of thier diet. If you don't realize that cutting out 8 of our 22 esential amino acids can cause major problem you don't know how protine works and what an important role it plays.
lukethibodaux 5 months ago
Because taking vitamins is not always an easy fix. With B12 there are many factors that come into play with absorbtion, very likley the intake was plenty but without the ablility to absorb it the problem still existed. Vegans don't understand that real problems can arise from cutting any and all meat out of thier diet. If you don't realize that cutting out 8 of our 22 esential amino acids can cause major problem you don't know how protine works and what an important role it plays.
lukethibodaux 5 months ago
why not take a tablet for the B12? quite simple the only other option was meat?
ArtsyPetals 5 months ago
Yes this is why I would NEVER recommend a raw vegan diet for any of my clients. I have been a trainer and nutritionist for 10 years and I think vegans are out of their mind. Straight up.
TheBodyScientist81 5 months ago
WOW, I can't believer how disrespectful many of you are. Have some class about what you have to say. There is no best diet, there is only the best diet for each person. What works for one person may not work for the next. Stop bashing people.Goodness~
empressjahada 5 months ago 6
raw vegan diet is best....she just didn't do to right....eating grains alone is one of her mistakes...also she dosn't look so healhty now....she looks older than 55...look at Tonya Zavaste who is 100% raw vegan ...I think she just turned 55 and looks 35!
NuclearNympho 5 months ago
At 8:14, she says we dont do well with grains....Lol. People in Asia eat a lot of rice and live very long.
IronCobra22 5 months ago
How about we STOP testing rats? Just cause rats went crazy on a fruitarian diet doesn't mean same is true for humans. Apples and oranges.
IronCobra22 5 months ago
the ability to cook food allowed us to go from wadling, bloated looking, heavy jawed, monkey things to the modern human. vegetarian and vegan diets work, for some people and raw diets can work for others as well but i think you need a good mix. some cooked food, some raw greens maybe some eggs and grains i dont think you need meat or dairy or anything resulting in the death of an animal for nutrition. anyway, all things in moderation no need for all one thing or all the other imho
Missmadammozart 5 months ago
@Missmadammozart the whole "everything in moderation" saying is BS. things good for you are good in moderation. things that are bad for you are ALWAYS bad for you. whether you drink a drop of gasoline or a glass full, it's still poison to your body. are you moderate in your drive by shootings, your child abuse, etc? get real.
AshaneX 3 months ago
@AshaneX wow some one woke up on the wrong side of being a cunt today..=/
Missmadammozart 3 months ago
@Missmadammozart we must be honest with ourselves and others when it comes to living healthfully. living by "everything in moderation" allows one to rationalize dangerous habits and behavior, thus it's a foolish motto. i'm sorry you feel my comment was out of hate, for i feel that expressing the errors of others is the loving thing to do. i'd be happy to hear your thoughts on the examples of moderation i gave in my last comment, unless insults is all you have to offer.
AshaneX 3 months ago
@AshaneX thank you for being so much more pleasnt in this comment. i will do my best to return the favor.
i aplogize for my previous reply but i dont think you understand how your comment "sounded" over lifeless text of the internet, in you former reply you spent the entire message talking down to me and insulting me because i chose to use an old syaing. this hardly seems like a "loving act" but i digress.
(continued-)
Missmadammozart 3 months ago
@AshaneX
I have never seen "all things in moderation" as "ALL things in moderation" i have always veiwed it as all things you partake in.
examples-
trying to change eating habbits for a healthier life, good, eating only iceberg, celery, and cabbage because they have "negative" calories, not that good.
protecting a kid from some of the dangers of childhood, good. never vaccinating a child because of rumers, protecting his self esteem so he never feels loss or defeat. not so good
Missmadammozart 3 months ago
@Missmadammozart i see then that you agree that it's not such a good saying. that was my only point. i've personally seen people ruin their health and their lives by living by that motto, justifying self-destructive habits that turn into addictions, thinking they're living healthfully. that's why there was some anger in my first comment. i apologize again for the condescending tone. i just feel it's a dangerous way of thinking, especially for someone seeking to improve their health.
AshaneX 3 months ago
@AshaneX i'll admit it's situational, and thus flawed. as you pointed out there are things that just ought not be done. I too apologize for my tone and ofcourse language, i hope you will forgive me aswell.
i simply intended that more extreme diets like the raw vegan, cave man, cr diet, etc are infact very intense, and i think a more balenced diet would be preferable. given these are very different diets and i'm not bashing them i'm just saying they're intense.
Missmadammozart 3 months ago
@AshaneX Usain Bolt eats plenty of "Junk Food" because he burns it off. There is no such thing as junk food. Moderation is not BS. The human body copes perfectly well with moderation of any "Bad" food and can live a long life without almost no affect on live expectancy. Eating meat is essential for a full complement of nutrients without supplements.
Even alcohol at low levels has been proven to be beneficial in some ways.
ojideagu 3 months ago
@ojideagu Technically, 0% animal product can be a full complement. However, when calories from animal products drop below 10% of a person's calorie intake, it starts to take planning what to eat. Planning becomes hard when it reaches 5% or below. Same goes if calories from animal product is very high because then he/she has to plan for fiber, vit C and etc.
I am not a planning type, and there are many vegetables I hate to eat. So meat is a part of my diet.
90Rush 3 months ago
@ojideagu oh yeah? care to elaborate on what "essential" nutrients we can only get from eating meat? looking forward to the answer for that. and sure, the human body can cope with all sorts of abuse. have you ever read The China Study? almost all forms of disease and cancer stem from the consumption of animal products (cholesterol). our physiology matches that of all other herbivores in nature, such as our long intestinal length, which simply isn't designed to digest meat like carnivores.
AshaneX 3 months ago
@AshaneX Vitamin K is only in meat. Every different protein and amino acid we need is only found in meat and eggs. Plants do not contain them all. Every Vitamin B type is only found in meat and dairy.
Humans evolved COOKING which no other animal did. This enabled us to eat meat without needing a carnivore's digestive system. Cooking enabled us to only need a small mouth and teeth.
Animals that live mostly on plants need massive jaws which limits brain size and they must eat 10 hours a day.
ojideagu 3 months ago
@ojideagu lol, kale has TONS of vitamin K. look it up. haha, every single amino acid can only be found in meat/eggs? meat can only provide nine of the essential amino acids, whereas plants can provide ALL 18. get your facts straight. we're such huge meat eaters in the US, yet 39% of the US have B12 issues. bananas are a great source of B vitamins, as well as many other plant sources. i guess my brain must be so small from eating plants and i don't have time to research facts like meat eaters!
AshaneX 3 months ago
@AshaneX Vitamin K2 is not in Plant matter to be exact, Vitamin K is. You are totally inaccurate about amino acids. Meat contains ALL the essential amino acids.
Banana's have only been available to the west for 100 years, what would you have done before
modern trade and agriculture?
ojideagu 3 months ago
@ojideagu actually i'm not inaccurate. unprocessed starches (eg, rice, corn, potatoes, beans), with the addition of vegetables and fruits, supplies all the protein, amino acids, essential fats, minerals, and vitamins (except B12) necessary. you're right that K2 can't be found in plant sources, but your body can convert K1 to K2 by bacteria in the small intestines. non-issue. if bananas weren't available, i'd be eating one of the many other sources of B vitamins found in nature.
AshaneX 3 months ago
@ojideagu yes, i said that meat contains all nine ESSENTIAL amino acids. a complete protein can be made by combining multiple plant sources, as i stated in my last comment. so in addition to the nine essential amino acids, plants contain ALL 18 amino acids that exist.
you need to do some actual research instead of just parroting what you've been told and ignoring the other scientific evidence that exists.
AshaneX 3 months ago
@AshaneX To get all the amino acids from plants you need a very expansive and convoluted diet compared to meat eaters and a far greater quantity. Many populations of people don't have access to that range of food unless they are in a wealthy country. Many populations only have a narrow range of crops they can grow.
Nobody said humans shouldn't eat plants, but meat means a far simpler regime is needed to be eaten to full fill humans needs.
ojideagu 3 months ago
@ojideagu not really bro. my diet is actually probably much simpler than yours. i eat mono meals of fruit for breakfast/lunch and salad for dinner, and i'm meeting all my nutrient needs according to the CRON-O-METER software. can you same the same thing with certainty about your diet? and many populations thrive on starch based diets (rice, corn, barley, wheat, etc). meat is used very sparingly in the typical Chinese diet, for instance, and in India most are vegetarian.
AshaneX 3 months ago
@ojideagu so the whole factory farming thing and all the greenhouse gases that produces, using 50% of the world's fossil fuel, using 75% of the world's grain production to feed those animals, is a far simpler regime than someone living off their own garden? we also don't have the same physiology as true carnivores. the meat always becomes rancid by the time it passes through our intestines. that's why meat eaters' shit stinks so bad.
AshaneX 3 months ago
@AshaneX Wikipedia quote to back up my point:
"Most meats contain a full complement of the amino acids required for the human diet. Fruits and vegetables, by contrast, sometimes lack several essential amino acids contained in meat. It is for this reason that people who abstain from eating all meat need to plan their diet more carefully to include vegetarian sources of all the necessary amino acids"
ojideagu 3 months ago
@ojideagu lol, that quote actually refutes your point that meat is the only source for all essential amino acids. i'm one of those who carefully includes all the necessary vegetarian sources like that quote says. here's a quote from the complete protein article on wikipedia: "All the essential amino acids can be obtained on their own from various everyday plant sources." speaking of protein, broccoli has TWICE the amount of protein than meat, calorie for calorie, without the fat and cholesterol.
AshaneX 3 months ago
@ojideagu lol vitamin k is present on lettuce, carrots and a lot of veggies. Well i do not agree with raw vegan, but vegan is awesome. Have you forget pulses (legumes)?? Lentis with rice. I been building muscle with that. On 3 months i gain 15 kilos of lean muscle. Dude the commento you give was a little dumb, but i agree that all the raw thing is just idiology
irlumir 3 months ago
@irlumir Vitamin K2 is not in plant matter, Vitamin K is.
ojideagu 3 months ago
@AshaneX All forms of cancer do not stem from eating animal products, that is utter vegan propaganda. Not eating meat contributes far more problems to humans than a 1% chance of cancer. Only in modern agriculture are you even able to live from a Vegan diet. Thanks to our evolution which was only possible because our ancestors ate meat.
ojideagu 3 months ago
@ojideagu 1% chance huh? lol, care to share where you got that statistic? and note that i said MOST cancer, try reading harder. what kinds of problems does not eating meat cause? it takes 16lbs of vegetation to yield 1lb of beef. you've got it backwards bro. only with modern factory farming are YOU even able to live off a diet including meat. people have been living off raw foods since the beginning of man. fruit trees and such have always provided a habitat for animals, unlike grain/meat farms.
AshaneX 3 months ago
Thanks so much guys for honest interviews like these so that people who have tried and have not been able to thrive on the Raw food diet don´t feel alienated and alone. Keep them coming, please.
MsAnamatronic 5 months ago
Comment removed
zolumpus 5 months ago
i perfectly understand where she's coming from ... i was vegetarian for 3 years with a period of several months of vegan ... i had memory loss, bloating, weight gain, low energy and at some point i really craved meat and eggs...for the first 2 weeks i started eating meat and eggs again i felt reborn! massive improvement!
vegetarianism and veganism don't work...
pipobun 6 months ago
@pipobun ur diet was obviously lacking majorly?
djesta 5 months ago
@pipobun
You're going to cause a ruckus using the statement 'vegetarianism and veganism don't work...' instead, you should have said that it didn't work FOR YOU. Everyone is different, and it's about what's best for YOU.... even if that means eating meat and eggs. [=
MsMac0610 5 months ago
awwww man.
SimplyCecileP 6 months ago
Yeah I find it very interesting what Durianrider said about her diet including a LOT of fat, and according to him actually being pretty low carb. This is rarely a recommended combination and I also consider it no surprise she went downhill. The memory loss is due to a lack of glycogen to the brain I would imagine.
hoppimike 6 months ago
if Susan was having a high fat raw food diet, and not doing regular exercise to keep in shape, and had had drugs and trauma to her body from her life thus far, then her b12 absorption and general health would absolutely be compromised. sleep, rest, exercise - all very important as well as diet :)
0wenfox 6 months ago
peace and love and health to Susan and all :)
0wenfox 6 months ago
Susan Schenk is a nice person but just confused and thought calorie restriction was healthy lol! She literally starved herself all the way back to dog and cat food.
Check out the response video to this on 'durianriders' channel.
Susan Schenk has a fat gut and cant even run around the block at pace. I wouldnt call that healthy! :(
durianrider 6 months ago
@durianrider Shenck reviewed her dietary choices and changed the things that weren't working. Your stubborn commitment to a bizarre, orthorexic regime despite your diabetic symptoms and visually depleting vitality is not something to aspire to.
Don't make assumptions about her weight or fitness levels. And don't reply to this post with an assumption that I'm a '600 pound whale huckster' in your usual form. It's simply not true, and doesn't cut it.
Lakkhesis1976 4 months ago
she should consult with fred bisci
brutus64 6 months ago
Well I personally know one man who got healed from lateral sclerosis after removing with a raw vegan diet all the heavy metals and toxins from his body. Everyone has to test what's is best for his situation. B12 supplementation is another thing that is highly recommended. Look what Doctor Clement says about it. Mental programming and training is another key issue. The mind rules over all bodily functions so if you are not detoxifying your brain and thoughts your cells won' work properly.
TheValerioPaolini 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
You people are gullible.
ZoldierrZzz 6 months ago
Its nice to here some one wiht long time vegan experience share, humble, and admit the fact that meat is not the devil.
shredrocker7 6 months ago
let's mesmerize a group of horse, and market to them the idea that in order to be cool and high class they need to give up on grass (their natural food source) and switch over to eating asphalt. I think some of you marketing folks can even come up with a cool campaign to make it happen. That misses the point that the health impacts of eating stuff you are not supposed to are Obvious. So let's look into the crystal ball and determine what Humans are designed to eat. A clue, it does not moo!
dr88ought 6 months ago
i'm wondering does genetics have anything to do with the need to eat meat, just as certain blood types have need for certain foods?
traveln3 6 months ago
@traveln3 you hit the nail on the head. genetics or Genotype as I like to say, have everything to do with it. It is all about Bio-chemical individuality
HealthForward 6 months ago
12 vegans watched this video.
jubtub 7 months ago
BTW, If we were all meant to eat meat, just kill it and eat it RAW - like a Tiger! LOL!
cool555breeze 7 months ago 8
@cool555breeze exactly!
smilesoulingbliss 6 months ago
@cool555breeze Heard of eskimos?
SebbeSucksBawlz 5 months ago
@cool555breeze Some of us do eat it raw. Look up raw paleo. :D Yum!
wormmy1 5 months ago
@cool555breeze Because we are not Tigers. Do Tigers wear clothes, jewelry or make up? Do Tigers live in houses, ride horses and drive cars? Let's keep it in context and talk about HUMANS and what HUMANS have done generation after generation. And no where on the planet will you find a vegan society who reproduced for generations. AND some people in the world do eat raw meat.
TheBodyScientist81 5 months ago
@TheBodyScientist81 Raw meat can kill you by parasites though. However, what vegans do NOT know is that carnivorous wild animals can and do die that way too. Circle of life.
rpmangin 4 months ago
Nothing against Susan in particular... but I am amazed and saddened by the masses of people who are all "research" and very little actual REAL APPLIED long term experience. Mostly talk and not action. Words words words. Most people have become perpetual robotic seekers instead of buckling down with a plan, doing it, and getting results. BIG CHANGES not little "health improvements"... What starts as discipline (which few have) then becomes a pleasure (which few ever enjoy...)
RawFitChris 7 months ago 2
i dont eat mc death. and just like plants. not all meat is created equal.
lumberjak1984 7 months ago
Kevin... Your still Raw After this interview right? So... Whut does this mean ? O_o
WhiteGlitterTV 9 months ago
all that intake of meat and "brain food" has not help the author. if you listen closely to the interview, she's still not mentally sharp, still appear to suffer from brain fog, saying "uh"s a lot, and forgetting things throughout the entire interview. and this is her discussing issues in her field of expertise.
joy1ess 10 months ago 2
@joy1ess unlike Durian Rider and his mental acuity...
Lakkhesis1976 4 months ago
all the research says something different. perhaps different bodies and minds are meant to have different diets and there is no one way for any people.
bmarley343 10 months ago
@michel43garcia - that's the whole point, thank you for validating what I said. The only reason vegans get to live now is that their unhealthy dietary habits are supported by veggies and grains grown from oil. As soon as oil goes away, then modern ag collapses and billions starve. In that kind of highly competitive survival environment, only those that are willing to take advantage of the high nutrient density of meat (where animals concentrate solar energy) will survive. Plant energy = fail.
MrFinger8r 10 months ago
@MrFinger8r LOOOOOOOL okae captian confusion . backwards much ? enjoy your dead carcus meat while indulging in the dillusion its got ANY nutritional value . Oh yeah ,, remember tho that you can only eat HERBIVORES,, Because you need the nutrition they have in them from the PLANTS they eat LOOOOL retard . that meat is slowing down your logical mind lOOOl
WhiteGlitterTV 9 months ago
@WhiteGlitterTV - In all of history, there has never been a vegetarian society that has survived more than a couple generations. We are not evolved to get our nutritional needs met from plants alone. We need the fats that animals make from plants and concentrate in their bodies. The animal eats a thousand plants, we eat the animal. If we try to get it direct from plants we could never get enough to survive. It all comes back to oil. You are young, so remember this when civilization fails.
MrFinger8r 9 months ago
@WhiteGlitterTV -When the oil is gone and cities collapse and you find yourself starving, kill and eat animals or you will die. Get out of the city, go north, away from the heat that will inevitably come and bake everywhere south of Canada. Stay away from the low-lying coastline where most people live. This will happen in your lifetime. Learn to hunt. Learn to hide. More danger and trouble will come from other humans than from the wild, although weather will be the biggest challenge. You'll see.
MrFinger8r 9 months ago
@MrFinger8r I do know how to hunt and survive, and when the time comes, believe me, I will. BUT have you seen where your so-called meat comes from these days? I refuse to put corporate-farmed, drug-fed, life-of-suffering animals in my body while I have a choice. End of story. :-)
cool555breeze 7 months ago
I do know how to hunt and survive, and when the time comes, believe me, I will. BUT have you seen where your so-called meat comes from these days? I refuse to put corporate-farmed, drug-fed, life-of-suffering animals in my body while I have a choice. End of story. :-)
cool555breeze 7 months ago
@cool555breeze Yep, I agree completely and wouldn't eat that crap either, not just because it's nutritionally poor, but because it is ethically appalling to support CAFOs and the corporations that spawn them. That's why I only eat grass-fed and locally grown meats from local farmers that I know personally, or from animals that I hunt myself. Right there with ya about all that.
MrFinger8r 7 months ago 2
@MrFinger8r Totally respect that! I so wish more people would take responsibility for understanding their food and where it comes from. The meat industry has been working very hard to make the masses think that hamburger comes from McDonald's, without a second thought about the actual production. And nothing that has lived its life in fear, fed garbage, shot up with drugs and died horribly can be good for you to eat. All that is passed on to you, the consumer. Many studies to back that up, too.
cool555breeze 7 months ago
You have to take B12 by injection for it to be effective..not in supplement form as the stomach acids render it useless. This is what we were taught in nursing school..you can look it up..personally I think eating raw food as soon as it is picked is the healthiest way to get your "live food"..once anything is picked it starts to die or decay. Best to grow you own organic food. But on the subject of meat..we were born with both a set of canines and molars for both meat tearing & veg grinding.
kokonutbaby1 11 months ago
@kokonutbaby1 You have to take B12 by injection for it to be effective... yeah, right. Did you learned that from your allophatic professor (probably an MD) who happens to be a drug pusher from pharmaceuticals??? I have never take B12 by injection and I have the memory of an elefant.
smr144 11 months ago
@smr144 Really? that must be why you spelled elephant wrong, lol..I suggest you look up B12 injections and or B12 deficiencies..you have to have lab work to determine if yours is normal or not..you can't go by the way you think you feel..sheesh! And no, I learned it in nursing school..try reading, it helps, lol
kokonutbaby1 11 months ago
@kokonutbaby1 Stop blowing smoke up your ass kokonutbaby. How the hell do you think humans survived for thousands of years? With B12 injections? I think not. The human body can adequately absorb B12 through supplementation or proper diet. Any medical doctor can attest to this through standardized B12 testing via blood work. Some supplements that are affected by stomach acid are now ENTERIC COATED. When did you go to "nursing school" in the 30's?
donaldsodav290 11 months ago
Why on earth wasn't she taking B12 supplements? Is raw foodism against taking supplements?
tadolina 1 year ago
It's very scary that this woman writes books. She says she was B12 deficient. 40% of people are B12 deficient. It's one vitamin that all people should take each day. She said she was Vit D deficient. A lot of people are, the best Vit D is the sun, just get sun and you will have no problem. Then she said her memory was deteriorating. Take hemp oil or flax oil and your body will convert omega 3 into epa and dha. Most of India, one sixth of the world population are vegetarians.
SpaceWalkTraveller 1 year ago
@SpaceWalkTraveller I think she is honest. And by the way, Indians drink milk and eat eggs both sources of Vit. B12
smr144 11 months ago
@SpaceWalkTraveller India may not be the best example. If you have ever been to India you may understand that their logic and organisational skills are mind bogglingly poor. Maybe they are more like 90% b12 defficiant.
tblaxxable 10 months ago
@tblaxxable 90% of Indian's are B12 deficient ??? Can you tell me where you got that information from? Thats a new one! Yes I spent four months travelling in India and yes they have a different way of doing things and it works for them.
SpaceWalkTraveller 10 months ago
I went vegan at the very beginning of Summer last year after a year and a half of being vegetarian. And I am never going back!
I don't even know how it's possible to have this much energy- and I haven't even been eating much raw foods since Winter began!
MarmaladeMonster 1 year ago
@MarmaladeMonster And how are you doing with your veganism 8 months after making this comment? Feeling vital? Sticking to it effortlessly?
Lakkhesis1976 4 months ago
@Lakkhesis1976 Yes! I feel incredible, thanks for asking! :) I celebrated my one year vegan versary in June. I've gotten so good at food preparation and I've learnt SO much about health and nutrition!
Now, as far as raw food goes, I could be doing better with that. I do eat a whole foods diet, though, of course :)
MarmaladeMonster 4 months ago
@MarmaladeMonster That's cool: you must be doing it right for you right now. However, don't ever close yourself off to honestly reviewing your diet and whether its still working in the future.
Lakkhesis1976 4 months ago
@Lakkhesis1976 A plant-based diet done right is healthier than an animal-based diet done right. A plant-based diet done wrong is healthier than an animal-based diet done wrong (Of course, neither of those are healthy).
I've read books, countless articles, reports, watched documentaries... I've learnt quite a bit, and I've made a very educated stance on this subject.
One thing about veganism is that many wind up eating tons of processed foods, though. Not good.
MarmaladeMonster 4 months ago
@MarmaladeMonster Agreed: not good. I've done similar research to you, in addition to formally studying nutritrition at university level. I don't believe that veganism is a good health-based choice, but that it can be done relatively successfully some time if that's your ethical stance.
Ultimately, the one resounding truth in ALL sound nutritional theory is very simple: WHOLEFOODS.
Lakkhesis1976 4 months ago
@Lakkhesis1976 Speaking from personal experience and what others have said, giving up animal products does make a very big difference in energy levels, skin health, and overall health.
Have you read the book, The China Study? I'm only 1/2 way done, but it's very fascinating. The author, Campbell, Ph.D, talks about his research on nutrition regarding animal vs. plant diets.
I, for one, advocate a local, biodynamic diet over a vegan one. But I do firmly believe veganism is healthier.
MarmaladeMonster 4 months ago
@MarmaladeMonster TCS is often cited as 'proof' for the efficacy of veganism, but it carries vital flaws. The most significant is that none of the populations researched in TCS were vegan. ALL included animal products in varying quantities. TCS proves that increasing plant based foods in the diet is beneficial for health, but it does not then follow that an *exclusively* plant-based diet is 'better'. Campbells book is his interpretation of the study, with glaring omissions and manipulations.
Lakkhesis1976 4 months ago
@Lakkhesis1976 Yes, but his main point is that the less included, the better. Any manipulative phrasing can easily be surpassed by intuitive reading, allowing the reader to step back and ask questions- a tool vital for any worthy debate.
I know people from both ends of the meat vs. vegan spectrum who believe eveything seen, heard, or read that supports their particular stance. This is a closed-minded and petty practice that many seem to do. I regard both sides, and I have made my choice.
MarmaladeMonster 4 months ago
@MarmaladeMonster But the 'less animal products included the better' part isn't substantiated by the actual study. The 'more plant based foods the better' part IS. I could use the actual data gathered in the study to 'prove' that animal foods are, in fact, essential to human health. The study itself (not Campbells BOOK) is HUGE; he has cherry picked and that's really important to remember.
It's great that you're able to regard both sides and make a choice from there.
Lakkhesis1976 4 months ago
@Lakkhesis1976 Only a certain number of calories are needed, so I feel the two terms are interchangeable to a good extent. Also not that Campbell specifically says in his book that what he discusses are observations and correlations. It is near impossible to find a persistent causation. Also, for the study, if he had included every oberservation, his book would have been even more huge!
MarmaladeMonster 4 months ago
@MarmaladeMonster No, no, no... Calories aren't the issue here. You absolutely cannot claim that 'more plant-based foods is beneficial' is synonymous with 'less animal foods is better'. This is the FUNDAMENTAL error of TCS. What Campbell has given is effectively a preamble that won't mean anything to most readers, who don't understand the difference between 'correlation' and 'causation'. You're better off spending time reading the actual study than Campbell's diet book.
Lakkhesis1976 4 months ago