to the people who think this is just random notes. after listening to the black page enough it becomes catchy. really. This version is more complex and has more added harmonics, but the melody is one of the greatest compositions zappa has made, listen to the real version and come back and you'll understand it better
@napomania well i just mean that you can hear that Vai listened a LOT to Zappa's music.
And i don't mean a particular piece,but i can hear the style in some of Vai's compositions,that's all i mean :)
That's way back when he started.
When i started to play music,i always learned by copying and then kinda implemented it completely until i started something new,thats just my opinion :)
@Everybody. What is the point of trying to impose your musical taste on somebody else? If you love this, then love it. If you hate it, then go and listen to something you DO like.
I surely respect the great Frank Zappa, but I also respect his sense of humor. I truly believe that he must have written this piece of music while he was trying to kill a fly which was flying over his synclavier! Afterwards he just kept this tune as a mockery to the "avant garde" movement of the early '80s.
@flingar He took this kind of music very serious. Edgar Varèse and other modern composers were his greatest inspiration and this is his take on the kind of music he enjoyed the most. And by the way: The Black Page was written long before the 80ies. He found the machine that translated his ideas, the way he wanted to perfectly: The synclavier. Like an instrument for a mad scientist. Forcing his will upon unvoluntary air molecules.
Love this stuff! I remember getting this as one of those plastic soundpages in Keyboard magazine in the '80s. They even included a lead sheet for this piece, which I used as music copying assignment for a music class in college. Great stuff and showing the then-unlimited potential of the synclavier and computer music. Then I heard Frank and his band play the piece and that kept me on track with what real human beings could do! Thanks for posting!
Anyone on this thread who can't appreciate Zappa's talent and innovation for what it is in the historical context of the music industry is either a dullard or a self stroking fucktard, period.
Dear poster Timmo, is this from " Jazz from Hell " ... one of his latter day albums ?
@videocanone "The Black Page" has a lot of incarnations dating to 1976, i think. It was originally a drum solo. There is a great "new age version" on "Make a Jazz Noise Here", which was released after "Jazz from Hell."
Why do people say such nasty things to each other? Zappa was a genius, he was also many other things including a total dork, ok so what? listen to the music, make your minds up and be happy whatever!
What bootleg is this? I have all the albums, but not all the bootlegs... so I couldn't find this. Or is this an excerpt from one of the Jazz From Hell songs?
@roncstelep "what is the MOST common thing in every possibile music?" Uh, there has to be one?? ONE of the most common things is rhythm. Pretty essential.
Rhythmically, if someone expects pedestrian beat and is exposed to this = 'questioning' quality. Instead it upsets you. It surpasses your paltry (if any) understanding of it and you react. The only thing you can try to support such ignorance is being wordy and desperately try to sound like a philosopher.
@jancivil You are so mindless,that it almost hurts.We should talk about the music not about me!People,by reading critics feel offended and they become very offending and subjective in a childish way and typically critisize the critisizing person himself, not the facts or the the things has been said. You also act like this. I won't answer and won't be even more introspective by our comments.I'm not desperate but a philosopher,just leave it up to me.I'm very fed up with the shallow comments
@roncstelep Greatest musicians/composers of all time 1) Beethoven 2) Stravinsky 3) Zappa
There was never or will there ever be another person such as Zappa who won grammys in Classical and Rock.Never been done in history.Doo-wop,Blues,heavymetal,jazz,jazz fusion,techno,classical,avent garde,contemporary.
Your rating is very subjective.If one would ask a musicologist, I doubt if these 3 persons would appear in his ratings but rather:Bach,Mozart,and maybe Beethoven then.Personally me,I admire Bach,hate Mozart and don't really like Beethoven and like Stravinsky and find Zappa uninteresteing from EVERY aspect.That many rewards shows nothing but the subjectiveness of the masses.The whole hysteria around FZ for me is pointless while he is the last one from the houndreds I listen with joy.Sorry.
You're just locked into a totall SUBJECTIVE way of feeling music.
This is sad, very very very sad, especially when you have this maner to discuss opinions as you were in an OBJECTIVE mood.
Dude, seriously, forget your musicologists, forget your teachers, forget your knowledge, and feel the music, feel the smartness, feel the efforts, feel the work. And finally, feel the originality and feel the master.
@roncstelep You're making yourself sound like a tool, Zappa is NOT a classical musician, he's an experimental one you're comparing apples and oranges, also totally different times, the reason experimental musicians experiment is because they're trying to get away from Bach and the whole formulaic compositional model. Get over yourself.
@roncstelep Zappa did it ALL and made millions doing it! He was a genius,a great composer,a great arranger in Timbre sounds,A stellar arranger of themes.His guitar solos were visceroly created,the worlds greatest controlled chaotic guitarist.He also had an amazing feel for Pop culture.who do you know who can produce a gold record talking about yellow snow.Bow down to the great zappa,you Schmuck!
Please leave my critisizing!He was an interesting guitar player but I wouldn't accent every other of his abilities the way you did.His sense for the electro-sonic timbres was super amatheur and he is one of the worst synthesis I've ever heard(among that many 1000 rec.I know).I also don't feel the importance of the yellow snow-thing.That is also very subjective.A genious puts effort in characterising the most possibile global-things in existence.I never heard FZ doing it,or we mean different thi
How can a man who spend his whole life to talk us about conceptual continuity of a poodle lost in a dwarf nebula and eating some cosmic debri can't be charaterising the universe itself?
You don't know nothing about the background of his work, his thoughts, what concepts he developed and how he injected this kind of spiritual food in his songs, helped by serial music and his magic fingers and his fuckin charismatic voice.
I see entirely what you're saying, and respect it wholly--many of the people who responded to you had really terrible arguments, and in my response I wanted to address something from one of your older comments.
You seem to be of the classically oriented variety of musical listeners. What I mean by this is that you have an entirely different perspective of what good music is because you experience it in such a different way. (continued)
Many Frank Zappa fans would appreciate something of this variety because they find it intellectually challenging--and that's fine because those people have yet to really experience what you called "musical surrender."
This brings me to what I was talking about before between the differences between modern and traditional approaches to listening. Traditionally, the musicians involved in a sound do all the work--this is what I interpret from your concept of surrender. (continued again)
However, there has arisen in the past century a new variety of listening. It is difficult to explain it, but this is what I conceive it to be:
It all began with the primordial jazz sound, which was set as dance music--dance music can't be appreciated without dancing. Through the 20th C, as jazz evolved and began to infuse itself with other art forms, this notion remained intact; in order to enjoy modern music truly, you must engage yourself in a mentality similar to dance.
When you apply the mind and body (and even soul) to modern music, you have truly fulfilled the connection that you must have in order to really appreciate it. Until this is done, the music cannot reach you for you must meet it half way.
This was never present in, say, the Baroque Era. People would go to hear music performed, not to engage their being in the music. It was entertainment. In the past 500 years it has truly emerged as an ART to be experienced.
@Parvenu333 I would like to respectfully challenge your view of the Baroque era. Much of the modern view of Baroque has been tainted by literature from the Classical period which framed it in very rigid rules of how it should be played (with mathematical precision, etc...) but in reality, much of the music from the Baroque era was often performed as unbridled expressions of emotion.
@shaynegryn You may be right, but that doesn't change the fact that not a soul who went to go hear a concert in that era went with the intention of dancing. The attitude of "surrender" is somewhat outdated--now it's the foot tap, the air drum, the bodily motion that provides one with the link to the music. This is the way I see it at least; I had to deal with a similar problem that you're dealing with right now, and this is the answer I provided for myself. Maybe it'll work for you, maybe not.
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@drewheasman I'm sorry,but I think I'm one of the most upgraded person from this aspect.I know thousands of music,I engineer synths and had more than 500 synthesizers incl.the most expensive systems:Fairlights,Synclaviers,PPGs(all I still own).Any kind of statement can be done without any previous knowledge by simply listening a music.The more the music is related to the global-ideas the more it is art.FZhas nothing to do it and he is a tasteless synthesist.
The thing that strikes me as utterly ingenious about Zappa's music, is that Zappa actually didn't write random, complicated music for the sake of it. This was how he wanted the music to be! And he must've heard it in his head before writing it down. It's quite mind boggling the processing abilities his brain must have had.
This is how frank wanted his music to be performed, i heard a interview with him about a decade ago two where he was like yeah the band is just attempting to get it right night after night.. dam i miss frank :P
@tarantism This song has been written way before Zappa even owned a synclavier. I think the first version appeared on the "Zappa in New York" album (released in 1978, recorded live in 1976). He composed it the old fashioned way on a piece of paper. That's how it got it's name, because there's so many notes, the page is all black...
@namelessguy93 oh ok thanks for sharing! i just remembered him saying he composed a lot on his synclavier and this song seems like he would have. it's amazing that this was written on paper, it's no wonder that's how it got it's name. i think this is one of the greatest compositions ever ... the melodies and rhythm are just ... so good
The synclavier sound is something that has been forever lost in time. Listen to the attack of the more percussive sounds. Does anyone know to get that sound with any modern equipment? I've never heard anything else sound like that. It must be an artifact of the analog output. If that's the case, I wonder if anyone can find a schematic.
@jmclen7 That syn clavier is ancient by today's machines. The one thing that set Frank's apart (In his day) is that he could record his "OWN SAMPLES" from his instruments. The samples in today's high end synths have easily surpassed what he could create back then. You lose that attack in other words. It really isn't a natural sound. However it is easily created if you still want it. No big deal. Get a good computer pgm and a good input system. Today you are 25 yrs ahead of him. Thats a lot!
@jancivil I know what you guys are saying, it's old digital technology that in no way should be superior to modern software samplers. I can always pick out synclavier sounds by ear whenever I hear them (usually the more percussive sounds). It's a very subjective thing, but I can hear a synclavier in a blind test any day and I've never heard anything else sound like that. Something, either in the sampling phase or in the output is affecting the sound in a very euphonic way.
I generally have less than zero interest in electronica but in FZ's case, though, it's an entirely different animal. The synclavier in his hands is a tool to visualize the notes on the page. It's planned, literate, and disciplined. Note how this sounds by musicians who take it seriously, for example by Dweezil's "Zappa Plays Zappa" (youtube[DOT]com/watch?v=GDwRJK8bpb4&feature=related) and studied by students like thsi guy: youtubep[DOT]com/watch?v=m7BiUyTCQwA
This is so cool! I love his Synclavier work. Jazz From Hell is great and I'd love to get Francesco Zappa. Are there any other albums he made that were all on the Synclavier?
My Commodore machines are integral to my home recording studio. Click my name to discover my Commodore 64 videos. Or view my other page, THEDUSTPILE, to hear some great chiptunes on my videos.
Or visit dustybin org uk for mountains of Commodore 64 music software and other goodies I have collected.
I have this on a keyboard magazine diskette. This is one of the must awesome version. The musical notation transcription is a master opus in itself. I'm still studying it, some 20+yrs after I first heard it.
@zarwarrior Holy frick, you have that?! Awesome! I'm quite jealous. I unfortunately wouldn't have anything to play the diskette on, so I guess it's better in your hands, haha.
@roncstelep. Your a moron! This is commonly known as one of the most difficult pieces to play on drums accurately. FACT! Watch an interview with terry bozzio or anyone else that's tried to pull it off and perhaps you might understand. Plus kraftwerk used guys on synths, the synclavier was a way to exclude the use of humans to recreate a perfect performance every time and on this particular track, to recreate a live band, not synths. Kraftwerk have little or nothing to do with this....
Yes,the difficulty is never the question.Bozzio also.It seems you don't know too much about Kraftwerk anyway.But you don't talk about the music but about the technique it's made of, what in itself has nothing to do to the methaphisical content of the music.If a music is good because it's difficult,it's not music but a kind of puzzle to solve.The soul doesn't calculate.It wants forget the immanency but obey to the external force made by the musician.I'd call it surrender.(To the music)..
@roncstelep "But you don't talk about the music but about the technique it's made of, what in itself has nothing to do to the methaphisical content of the music."
I guess meth heads look for the metha(something). This is a musical object. It's not even very complicated, cf. to some African concepts. It's a nice melody that happens to use rhythms that cross the pulse. That is talking about the music object.
Which you aren't equipped to do. So, you throw bullshit out to compensate.
Part of this "lifelessness" as it's been described here I think is due largely to the fact that these early units didn't really have a lot of ways to humanize the finished product.. also quantizing, while making it tight, removes any remaining signs of life.
I imagine for a composer like Zappa this was a great tool for proof of concept before presenting it to a band.
Could be,but this is not the case.On this machine you have many ways to humanize and play with many real-time controllers.But this isn't why it's tasteless for me.It's because the music is so abstract and random-like that the soul finds no grip on a melody because it lacks that.Real music is like an effortless drifting power,a melody,a fountain of metaphisics,a fly to the space.Here I only hear the extreme effort - being put for the next to nothing...
@roncstelep Well I agree that is one form of music. However there are people who love Sun Ra..and for the life of me I can't wrap my head around it. Doesn't make it any less musical, it's up for interpretation by the listener just as some art lovers may feel Picasso or Pollock pieces weren't true art and others do. And lets remember this is like looking at someones rough sketch. He never said it was completed or released it for our scrutiny..(the white zone is for loading or unloading only...;)
OK,he had some self-control then.I don't quite agree with you.Firstly one have to determine what is the MOST common thing in every possibile music?I think that will be the essence of it all.Then we have to approach the question from that point and I think the more a questioning music will provide something from that specified maxima, the more we will be able to call it music.The other appr:the state of mind.Why do we need music anyway?Both can be answered quite well.no more character left...
@roncstelep "Firstly one have to determine what is the MOST common thing in every possibile music?" Why? That seeks to be a pronouncement but is a lot of empty air.
You have said exactly nothing in that post.
Here's a heads-up for you: Listening to music ≠ reading philosophers. An appreciation of music involves information about music. You haven't typed one thing to criticize a musical object. It's a lot of words, some of which you fail to understand the sense of or how to use syntactically.
@roncstelep "Firstly one have to determine what is the MOST common thing in every possibile music?" Im a composer. I 'determine' based on a musical situation. You haven't the first clue what that is. You determined that you didn't like it, and thinking dont enter into it.
Calling 'music' = the same as calling 'art'. Put a frame around an object, DONE.
Youre not an authority on music. You have no value as a critic.
Please leave me!I'm not interested in any debating anymore!I'm a composer and one of the greatest synthesist in the world.The music is in my veins,I've had houndreds of synths,thousands of albums.I could write such track anyday.Let that all be enough now.You are not the one to tell me who Iam,or who Iam not.Many has been trying that without success.I know myself because I'mextremely honest.Please stop being so very clever because I totally disagree what you say.You don't know me.
@roncstelep yeah yeah your a genius, one of the greatest synthesist in the world or whatever.. whenever Pierre Boulez or Nicolas Slominsky even express interest in your works, let alone conduct them with great interest like they did Zappa's, i'll listen to what you have to say about yourself... ps. check out Dupree's Paradise/Amazing Mr. Bickford conducted by Pierre Boulez here on youtube and THEN let me know how much better an arranger you are
@roncstelep I checked your channel ready to be marveled at your compositions. Instead I found a couple of stupid videos of a model train going forwards and backwards. Wowie Zowie.
RONCSTELEP you are an idiot and don't have a clue of what you are talking about.
If you owned a synclavier you would know that most of those ARE NOT SOUNDS FROM THE SYNCLAVIER LIBRARY.
Frank probably made more custom samples than any artist with a Synclavier and he was one of the first if not THE first to figure-out how to produce stereo samples.
The giants of the industry have pretty well lauded Frank for his works and anyone knows the instrument knows that he pushed it FAR beyond it's limits.
@dbbubba You are also an idiot.The essence of the music is not the question of where the timbres are coming from.Zappa's synthesizer music I find totally shit from every aspect: The music can't be enjoyed, the sonic timbres are VERY tasteless as is the whole product is.I like some FZ works but I rate him under the worst electr.-music composers.Just compare it to say:J-M Jarre-Oxygene, or to Kraftwerk!...
His synth was the state of the art workstation of the time and he handled it good.I'd NEVER make such shit,even if I knew I have a cancer. I don't understand how your examples come here?The way of the world doesn't show the real importance of a certain composition.The 90% developement of the culture is based on snobbery,just as he importance of the Black Page. Autoban is a genious work, and too simple to teach it.Black Page is complicatedly says nothing.
@roncstelep your musical credibility is next to nothing. your youtube page consists of model train uploads. kraftwerk would be ashamed of you for using them to put down zappa.
@rosenbluntz You are not the one to tell who am I. You don't know about the train and also nothing about my state of mind which you'd rank above anybody else you'd debate fce to face and not hidden.... Sorry but I think everybody's here admiring this half-idiot person (FZ) are also like him. Can be gentleman, weared in style, knowing what to do but not knowing the essence.... PLEASE you mindlesses, LEAVE ME OR ASK ME if you are uncertain!
Dear Timmo! I'm sorry to say but I think only some kind of not easy to express how many-precentage-idiots can act like you and the most people here so your very threatening promise is very-very childish.Who the hell is FZ,a god or what?Can't I have my own opinion?I see,I can only have the same opinion as yours.I don't mind while I haven't got anything from this forum yet.The fans here has nothing to do to the art and personally me,I like to come to conclusions...
What a stupid thing to say "blocking" because of an usage of an unwanted word for your half-idiot god...What other words are teasing you?I want to say,that you're not FZ,so please don't you identify yourself with my opinion about him otherwise I start think the same from you with some rasons despite of how I really want to avoid anything as a defending anybody here except the real "guilty": the artist who is the blame of lacking the real spice.
I'd also warn you,that the word of idiot were used first for me by another user.Did you warned him?I think the word in relation to FZ is not allowed.I'm not angry but you know what?I act in the spirit of the ever rebelling FZ and I have to say,that you are also a half-idiot person,firstly because of listening FZ who NEVER in his entire life made anything transcendental what would be the essence of every art,2nd:because you act feminin despite of supposingly being a man.Sorry.Goodbye
@roncstelep You don't make any sense. You'd have better luck replying in German; I'd certainly understand it just as well. kraftwerk is still ashamed.
Kraftwerk IS the idea,entirely transcendent,ever futuristic,high-tech,ever changing,with full of depth and beauty.All what FZ totally lacks but especially the only track I've critsized here.Nothing else but this 1.Can't a such BIIIIG artist have a weak track just because he is called FZ?I doubt,there's anybody on the planet enjoys it.The one who states controversary,I'd ask him what do he mean under joy?I think not the same as me:the distortion of the face by the beauty.Your face is distorting?
@roncstelep zappa never gave a shit if someone liked his music or not, he only created it for himself. some of zappa's music was/is so transcedent it's almost ridiculous, well from my point of view anyway.
I DON'T belive it even if he stated that.The English isn't my native language and I don't understand his lirycs but whatever I know from him are all EXTREMELY extrovert.His themes,titles,design,music,social-criticism.All was made for the public,for public exploitation.I doubt he ever made any notes with not taking the audience into account even he had some very alternative ways.I'd call it altero-snobbery.He was a clown to the public,a kind of invers-snob but snob anyway...
I've read everything you posted here, and I've come to the conclusio that you're either a troll of Andy Kauffman-level skill, or you really need to see a doctor. I can't tell which.
I don't know the name and sorry for not being interested in anybody's opinion on me.This forum isn't the casual place to express what I know about the life,the music,the art.Too few characters and even less true man.I think I have to hide and I ask you to please don't disturb.I know what do I know,and there's one thing for sure:there's nobody to change my opinion,nor about myself.There were many people tried to debate with me,up to now without any victory.I don't have faith in mankind anymore
...brown eyes,that nose.All are clear signs of the personality and I just mention in quotation mark that I doubt anything valuable can be done with such phisyognomy.I'm sorry,but it's really so simple and I haven't heard anything valuable from him.Well,some parts of Yellow Shark is OK,but all are cerebral and not for the "soul"(or what).I also don't remember anything transcendental from the rock,jazz genres altough I find transcendeny the goal of the music.Goodbye to all fans!
@timmo1782 You are 100% correct. Frank created what he wanted to hear. I f you like it to? Great. If not So What? See ya...! And that is the only attitude to have amongst so many human separations in taste. roncstelep doesn't know frank's catalog. Lots of basic simple things are included especially LIVE. But Frank got bored easily too. So to him, complexity was simple. He had years of personal writing experiments to get him to that point. He rehearsed incessantly to reach that level. WORK!
@timmo1782 that is so far removed from the truth that it is pathtic that you should write it here.....much of what he wrote was for pure consumption by the idiotic as well as his fans... not that there is anything wrong with that
I disagree.The question is NOT that how one can enjoy this but rather how he is able to enjoy ANYTHING?The ability for the joy.What is his maxima in ability for that?Let we first determine that as and then we will see differences in us:Typically he one who hasn't got that ability for that will think that the joy this music brings is a joy.The one who don't know what joy will say he enjoys that. What about then,say an exstatic,orgasm-like joy?...Sorry,people are very much the same...
@roncstelep I mean offense at this. There is no musician I look up to more than Frank Zappa. Sorry that you don't have the depth of musical insight to appreciate his music. This track I'm sure was just Zappa playing around. If it is so weak, I suggest you post a response of your greater track. This WEAK track on the other hand is taught in some of the most prestigious Jazz classes all over the world. Kraftwerk is nice but lame next to Zappa and will never own up to his greatness.
I'm sorry but I disagree.One more time a comm.about the greatness from the pespective of the world.World has nothing to do to the real greatness.The one who can be great in the world is very suspicious from the aspect of the greatest(and it's the genious).Genious can almost never be great in the world.Even the idealistic Bach was forgotten for a long while and had to be rediscovered.Kraftwerk established the elec.pop and they have the idea.FZ never had the idea.He just wrote,played music.
@roncstelep You're either a troll, or a self-centered elitist. If you don't want to hear others opinions, stop waving around your own and claiming you know better than everybody else. Music is a subjective experience - some people will hate what others love, and if you can't get over that it's your problem.
Listen!I even know why others stating this or that,even before they open up their mouths.That's why I'm not quite interested in people's opinion because I've heard them all(mainly in the most important themes).But belive me,I have a hunger to find something and somebody extraordinary.I suffer from not to find enough massive,deep and thoughtful people and music.Geniousness is the ray I wanna bath in, at least as a listener.I ignore everything ordinary.I'm sorry to say that.
@roncstelep Ok, so you admit you're just trolling. Because otherwise you wouldn't be here according to your own words. For somebody who is just "hungering for geniuses", you seem to spend an awful lot of time posting comments and discussing things you then claim you don't want to talk about. Not to mention that you switch roles a lot.
Nobody is trying to force FZs music on you, but when you wander around being arrogant and dishonest, people will react.
Musical genius is often disputed as well, different laymen and different educated people have different opinions on who is a genius and who is not. Define this "genius" what you want to hear?I might ask you: how much do you know about music at all, to be speaking like this? If yours were criticisms of a music-theory professor, then I have no dispute with you - I would simply not be at the same level. Allow me to have certain doubt in that however.
FZ is rather succesful than disputed,and accordingly not genious(in my opin.)Peop.might have different opinions about everything but the geniousness is nothing else than the highest point of view requires a similar state to approach or to judge it..I'm not longer willing to talk about myself but the music is my life and have a very large coll.of everything and I'm very open to the good.I have my own theory which is not necess.different from that of,say Schopenhauer.Read him on the art!Genial.
@roncstelep "I have a hunger to find something and somebody extraordinary"
no, you really don't. You want Kraftwerk. You want people on a FZ page to stroke your ego behind your insertions of Schopenhaeur into a discussion to mask the fact you don't know shit from shinola musically while you troll. You expect to be uninterested in people's opinion while you spew but for them to 'respect mah authoritah!' You bathe in your own putrid aroma which no one wants to share in.
@roncstelep "I ignore everything ordinary. I'm sorry to say that."
You should be sorry, because you're lying to yourself first, and inflicting yourself and your abject igorance of the content posted here onto people who have enough information to appreciate something you can't.
You prefer the strictly-from-ordinary Kraftwerk, which reveals you as utterly pedestrian.
@roncstelep Do you know why he started using the Synclavier? Imagine that you have all of these ideas in your head and limited time to get them down. Then you find out you have cancer and will most likely be dying in a few years.
I think he said "Screw timbre, lets get this down."
I agree that he is not the best electronic musician. But centuries from now, orchestra students will be practicing "Night on Bald Mountain", "Brandenburg Concerto #3 " And "The Black Page #2 " ... not "Autobahn".
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Yes,I know! As much as I know the Synclavier itself among more than 500 synths I had.I have a very large Synclavier system with 10GBs of sounds with all acessory.I have my opinion about the user's psichology.Zappa was one of the most untalented synthesist of all times.Only used factory presets,cold and dead and tasteles sounds and even worse samples and made disturbed,pieced,chaotic,lifeless,tasteless music just like many others who approached Synclav not very creatively
@roncstelep try civilization III, his last ever album, a big step up in variety of timbre and the way the synclavier sounds. maybe though he was trying to make disturbed, chaotic pieces? certainly tasteless, if you have any knowledge of zappa, muhahaha.
@roncstelep Roncstelep - I've seen your comments on other Zappa videos, and to be honest, you really don't have a clue as to what you're on about. Please move on and use Youtube to watch things you enjoy, rather than critisize everyone elses tastes! Zappa was a talanted synthesist, and I'm sure that if you actually took the time out to sit down and watch the "Peefeeyatko" documentary you would find that out soon enough. Cheers
@roncstelep you are such a fucking scientist, only concerned with finding the answer in logic and reason. Entropy says chaos is the truth, deal with it Mofo.
@CaptainBusterNo,I'm absolutely not,I prefer relying my senses and creating something with the help of logic ONLY afterwards.The system of the mind is just like that.First comes the sensing and one integrates that into his previous knowledge only afterwards and then maybe speaks out something from that all.I'm the best at preserving my impressions of the actual thing and then I talk about it with the help of it's context in my mind.Let's not talk about me but Zappa!
@roncstelep puedo suponer que no sabes nada de zappa, bueno tipico, if you need 10 gb maybe you are not good as zappa, no me importa si escribi bien o mal i respet your opinion.
@89naturegirl A-ha, Iam an idiot because I have a different opinion.The problem is that you are much too touched by what I've written, like I was critisize you despite critisizing Zappa. This effect called sujectivism and I'd add: it's tipically (little) girl-ish.
@roncstelep Can you do better? If so, please post it; I'd love to hear something that could improve on anything FZ made.
This is pretty early Zappa synclavier work. He admitted once that he only gradually came to understand how to best work with it, that his early attempts were not really great. This one mainly works because the Black Page #1 is such a great piece of music in general, but possibly it could have had a better arrangement on Synclavier.
@roncstelep I must confess I'm not as well versed in the Synclavier on an experiential level, but from what I understand the point was to make "lifeless" pieces in the sense that he was trying to obviate the drudgery of dealing with orchestras/performers/unions. Its in The Real Frank Zappa Book. He's also detailed how many thousands of dollars he's spent trying to get performers inline only to have them show up to shows drunk etc.
Why should I? The essence of every music speaks for itself. One don't have to know anything as informal background in order being able to enjoy the music. The more virgin the spirit is, the more it enjoys everything from the input.The principal of informal addendums in any relation to music is only the asylum of the people who are not quite familiar with themselves as a minded human-system...
@jackdelawack Actually it is. Digital synthesis, but synthesis nonetheless. The more advanced Synclavs did offer sampling at an atrocious price. That is partly why the Fairlight did so well, they could underprice the Synclav since their system had it's own computer and operating system, whereas the Synclav required a DEC Vax minicomputer, which were amazingly expensive at the time.
I struggle to think of how ridiculously amazing Zappa's compositions would be now, with all the modern music technology and technical possibilities we have today.
We lost him at precisely the wrong time. Now we need him more than ever, and I'm not just on about the music when I say that...
the music of this gentleman still amazing me after say 40 years of listening, it quicks and boosts my life, thats for sure, and thanks Frank Zappa! love you!
wether it's played by a rock band, chamber orchestra or by this machine, this is always beutiful.
blefusku 4 days ago
to the people who think this is just random notes. after listening to the black page enough it becomes catchy. really. This version is more complex and has more added harmonics, but the melody is one of the greatest compositions zappa has made, listen to the real version and come back and you'll understand it better
tarantism 2 weeks ago
there you know where steve vai has got it from :)
JJStuffEngineering 1 month ago
@JJStuffEngineering sure about that? when Vai made the audition this synth was not still in the hand of Zappa and other musichans, imho
napomania 1 month ago
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JJStuffEngineering 1 month ago
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@napomania well i just mean that you can hear that Vai listened a LOT to Zappa's music.
And i don't mean a particular piece,but i can hear the style in some of Vai's compositions,that's all i mean :)
That's way back when he started.
When i started to play music,i always learned by copying and then kinda implemented it completely until i started something new,thats just my opinion :)
No offense :)
greetings,respect and all the best
Merry christmas man :>
JJStuffEngineering 1 month ago
Why hold a flashlight to your head to look for marbles, butter it and examine your prostate,find keys to the bee-mer?
noodlesmealey 3 months ago
Sounds like fractal music.
venomousbird 3 months ago
this is a bit like black page 1 mixed with black page 2, lol: the return of the son of black page 3?
rodcrippler 3 months ago
The point is to have an opinion, period!
keysB3P 4 months ago
@Everybody. What is the point of trying to impose your musical taste on somebody else? If you love this, then love it. If you hate it, then go and listen to something you DO like.
Nicap2 5 months ago 3
I would still love the music of Frank Zappa if I was the only person on earth who could stomach it. But guess what, I'm not!
mootbooxle 6 months ago
I give it a nine and the beat was perfect for dancing......
paulpellicci 6 months ago 2
I surely respect the great Frank Zappa, but I also respect his sense of humor. I truly believe that he must have written this piece of music while he was trying to kill a fly which was flying over his synclavier! Afterwards he just kept this tune as a mockery to the "avant garde" movement of the early '80s.
flingar 6 months ago
@flingar It was written way before the synclavier ^^ he made it to be hard :p
Guitareben 5 months ago
@flingar He took this kind of music very serious. Edgar Varèse and other modern composers were his greatest inspiration and this is his take on the kind of music he enjoyed the most. And by the way: The Black Page was written long before the 80ies. He found the machine that translated his ideas, the way he wanted to perfectly: The synclavier. Like an instrument for a mad scientist. Forcing his will upon unvoluntary air molecules.
namelessguy93 5 months ago
Lots of notes = good music
Whammo1963 6 months ago
@HipHopkins09 lol.
estvan56 8 months ago
Love this stuff! I remember getting this as one of those plastic soundpages in Keyboard magazine in the '80s. They even included a lead sheet for this piece, which I used as music copying assignment for a music class in college. Great stuff and showing the then-unlimited potential of the synclavier and computer music. Then I heard Frank and his band play the piece and that kept me on track with what real human beings could do! Thanks for posting!
boeder101 8 months ago
@roncstelep i think one of zappa's main reasons for doing this was entertainment, if it does not entertain you, dont watch it?
chpsoh 8 months ago
@greenthumbguy1 There is also an early version on Sheik Yerbouti I seem to remember.
videocanone 8 months ago
Anyone on this thread who can't appreciate Zappa's talent and innovation for what it is in the historical context of the music industry is either a dullard or a self stroking fucktard, period.
Dear poster Timmo, is this from " Jazz from Hell " ... one of his latter day albums ?
Thanks in advance for the answer.
videocanone 9 months ago
@videocanone "The Black Page" has a lot of incarnations dating to 1976, i think. It was originally a drum solo. There is a great "new age version" on "Make a Jazz Noise Here", which was released after "Jazz from Hell."
greenthumbguy1 8 months ago
Insignificante!
TheGaetanomariadigio 9 months ago
Why do people say such nasty things to each other? Zappa was a genius, he was also many other things including a total dork, ok so what? listen to the music, make your minds up and be happy whatever!
MyDadsMusic1 10 months ago 7
Probably the best composer of the 20th century!
wilsondenazare 11 months ago 3
zappa es un pelotudo - zappa sucker!!!
Collinmellan 1 year ago
Zappa the genius!
SynthPlaysYou 1 year ago
sounds really spooky!!
47ytrawets 1 year ago
@roncstelep
Just came across this one and have to admire the the way you've managed to shake up such a hornets nest - certainly made me chuckle!
Can't be bothered to read them all, but I would guess it starts with someone saying they think fz is all things great?
Personally I think fz was and still is the greatest composer that ever existed.
Don't argue - I'm right.
Most of the composers you mention are regarded in serious circles as the commercial trash of the classics, so pointless - End of.
thekwaze 1 year ago
What bootleg is this? I have all the albums, but not all the bootlegs... so I couldn't find this. Or is this an excerpt from one of the Jazz From Hell songs?
Love it btw.
dariustimmer 1 year ago
I don't get it
ANNABECKDK 1 year ago
@roncstelep "what is the MOST common thing in every possibile music?" Uh, there has to be one?? ONE of the most common things is rhythm. Pretty essential.
Rhythmically, if someone expects pedestrian beat and is exposed to this = 'questioning' quality. Instead it upsets you. It surpasses your paltry (if any) understanding of it and you react. The only thing you can try to support such ignorance is being wordy and desperately try to sound like a philosopher.
You're a joke.
jancivil 1 year ago
@jancivil You are so mindless,that it almost hurts.We should talk about the music not about me!People,by reading critics feel offended and they become very offending and subjective in a childish way and typically critisize the critisizing person himself, not the facts or the the things has been said. You also act like this. I won't answer and won't be even more introspective by our comments.I'm not desperate but a philosopher,just leave it up to me.I'm very fed up with the shallow comments
roncstelep 1 year ago
@roncstelep Greatest musicians/composers of all time 1) Beethoven 2) Stravinsky 3) Zappa
There was never or will there ever be another person such as Zappa who won grammys in Classical and Rock.Never been done in history.Doo-wop,Blues,heavymetal,jazz,jazz fusion,techno,classical,avent garde,contemporary.
You're a fool-lost-opher!
fadethetrade 1 year ago
Your rating is very subjective.If one would ask a musicologist, I doubt if these 3 persons would appear in his ratings but rather:Bach,Mozart,and maybe Beethoven then.Personally me,I admire Bach,hate Mozart and don't really like Beethoven and like Stravinsky and find Zappa uninteresteing from EVERY aspect.That many rewards shows nothing but the subjectiveness of the masses.The whole hysteria around FZ for me is pointless while he is the last one from the houndreds I listen with joy.Sorry.
roncstelep 1 year ago
@roncstelep
You're just locked into a totall SUBJECTIVE way of feeling music.
This is sad, very very very sad, especially when you have this maner to discuss opinions as you were in an OBJECTIVE mood.
Dude, seriously, forget your musicologists, forget your teachers, forget your knowledge, and feel the music, feel the smartness, feel the efforts, feel the work. And finally, feel the originality and feel the master.
He's as good as Bach and others.
Informatisse 1 year ago
@roncstelep You're making yourself sound like a tool, Zappa is NOT a classical musician, he's an experimental one you're comparing apples and oranges, also totally different times, the reason experimental musicians experiment is because they're trying to get away from Bach and the whole formulaic compositional model. Get over yourself.
colinhutton2 1 year ago
@colinhutton2 Zappa used a tremendous amount of formula and structure in his compositions. He even composed serial music.
shaynegryn 1 year ago
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thekwaze 1 year ago
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roncstelep 1 year ago
@roncstelep Zappa did it ALL and made millions doing it! He was a genius,a great composer,a great arranger in Timbre sounds,A stellar arranger of themes.His guitar solos were visceroly created,the worlds greatest controlled chaotic guitarist.He also had an amazing feel for Pop culture.who do you know who can produce a gold record talking about yellow snow.Bow down to the great zappa,you Schmuck!
fadethetrade 1 year ago
Please leave my critisizing!He was an interesting guitar player but I wouldn't accent every other of his abilities the way you did.His sense for the electro-sonic timbres was super amatheur and he is one of the worst synthesis I've ever heard(among that many 1000 rec.I know).I also don't feel the importance of the yellow snow-thing.That is also very subjective.A genious puts effort in characterising the most possibile global-things in existence.I never heard FZ doing it,or we mean different thi
roncstelep 1 year ago
@roncstelep As Russell Crowe said 'You've got dead ears'
fishybishbash 1 year ago
@roncstelep
What does it means "characterising the most possible global-things in existence"? Sorry but my translator dan't help me on this expression.
Informatisse 1 year ago
@roncstelep
How can a man who spend his whole life to talk us about conceptual continuity of a poodle lost in a dwarf nebula and eating some cosmic debri can't be charaterising the universe itself?
You don't know nothing about the background of his work, his thoughts, what concepts he developed and how he injected this kind of spiritual food in his songs, helped by serial music and his magic fingers and his fuckin charismatic voice.
And what about his moustache and weasels?
Informatisse 1 year ago
I see entirely what you're saying, and respect it wholly--many of the people who responded to you had really terrible arguments, and in my response I wanted to address something from one of your older comments.
You seem to be of the classically oriented variety of musical listeners. What I mean by this is that you have an entirely different perspective of what good music is because you experience it in such a different way. (continued)
Parvenu333 1 year ago
Many Frank Zappa fans would appreciate something of this variety because they find it intellectually challenging--and that's fine because those people have yet to really experience what you called "musical surrender."
This brings me to what I was talking about before between the differences between modern and traditional approaches to listening. Traditionally, the musicians involved in a sound do all the work--this is what I interpret from your concept of surrender. (continued again)
Parvenu333 1 year ago
However, there has arisen in the past century a new variety of listening. It is difficult to explain it, but this is what I conceive it to be:
It all began with the primordial jazz sound, which was set as dance music--dance music can't be appreciated without dancing. Through the 20th C, as jazz evolved and began to infuse itself with other art forms, this notion remained intact; in order to enjoy modern music truly, you must engage yourself in a mentality similar to dance.
Parvenu333 1 year ago
When you apply the mind and body (and even soul) to modern music, you have truly fulfilled the connection that you must have in order to really appreciate it. Until this is done, the music cannot reach you for you must meet it half way.
This was never present in, say, the Baroque Era. People would go to hear music performed, not to engage their being in the music. It was entertainment. In the past 500 years it has truly emerged as an ART to be experienced.
Parvenu333 1 year ago
@Parvenu333 I would like to respectfully challenge your view of the Baroque era. Much of the modern view of Baroque has been tainted by literature from the Classical period which framed it in very rigid rules of how it should be played (with mathematical precision, etc...) but in reality, much of the music from the Baroque era was often performed as unbridled expressions of emotion.
shaynegryn 1 year ago
@shaynegryn You may be right, but that doesn't change the fact that not a soul who went to go hear a concert in that era went with the intention of dancing. The attitude of "surrender" is somewhat outdated--now it's the foot tap, the air drum, the bodily motion that provides one with the link to the music. This is the way I see it at least; I had to deal with a similar problem that you're dealing with right now, and this is the answer I provided for myself. Maybe it'll work for you, maybe not.
Parvenu333 1 year ago
@roncstelep You need to read more on the history of audio synthesis and listen to more Zappa before making sweeping statements.
drewheasman 1 year ago
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@drewheasman I'm sorry,but I think I'm one of the most upgraded person from this aspect.I know thousands of music,I engineer synths and had more than 500 synthesizers incl.the most expensive systems:Fairlights,Synclaviers,PPGs(all I still own).Any kind of statement can be done without any previous knowledge by simply listening a music.The more the music is related to the global-ideas the more it is art.FZhas nothing to do it and he is a tasteless synthesist.
roncstelep 11 months ago
@roncstelep I hope English is your second language. Try listening to "Civilizaton Phaze III" before commenting.
estvan56 8 months ago
The thing that strikes me as utterly ingenious about Zappa's music, is that Zappa actually didn't write random, complicated music for the sake of it. This was how he wanted the music to be! And he must've heard it in his head before writing it down. It's quite mind boggling the processing abilities his brain must have had.
basshred 1 year ago
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This is how frank wanted his music to be performed, i heard a interview with him about a decade ago two where he was like yeah the band is just attempting to get it right night after night.. dam i miss frank :P
lolbutsrsly 1 year ago
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lolbutsrsly 1 year ago
what releaseis this?? looking for the original synclavier stuff for ages
Synapsenkitzler 1 year ago
Moraisito Ametista - The best...
Claudiobenyossef 1 year ago
love hearing this masterpiece in how it was originally created ... i'm pretty sure he used his synclavier to compose
tarantism 1 year ago
@tarantism This song has been written way before Zappa even owned a synclavier. I think the first version appeared on the "Zappa in New York" album (released in 1978, recorded live in 1976). He composed it the old fashioned way on a piece of paper. That's how it got it's name, because there's so many notes, the page is all black...
namelessguy93 1 year ago
@namelessguy93 oh ok thanks for sharing! i just remembered him saying he composed a lot on his synclavier and this song seems like he would have. it's amazing that this was written on paper, it's no wonder that's how it got it's name. i think this is one of the greatest compositions ever ... the melodies and rhythm are just ... so good
tarantism 1 year ago
The synclavier sound is something that has been forever lost in time. Listen to the attack of the more percussive sounds. Does anyone know to get that sound with any modern equipment? I've never heard anything else sound like that. It must be an artifact of the analog output. If that's the case, I wonder if anyone can find a schematic.
jmclen7 1 year ago
@jmclen7 That syn clavier is ancient by today's machines. The one thing that set Frank's apart (In his day) is that he could record his "OWN SAMPLES" from his instruments. The samples in today's high end synths have easily surpassed what he could create back then. You lose that attack in other words. It really isn't a natural sound. However it is easily created if you still want it. No big deal. Get a good computer pgm and a good input system. Today you are 25 yrs ahead of him. Thats a lot!
EddieGoregor 1 year ago
@jmclen7 It's just a square attack on a synth, the attack isn't rolled off, value = '0'.
jancivil 1 year ago
@jancivil I know what you guys are saying, it's old digital technology that in no way should be superior to modern software samplers. I can always pick out synclavier sounds by ear whenever I hear them (usually the more percussive sounds). It's a very subjective thing, but I can hear a synclavier in a blind test any day and I've never heard anything else sound like that. Something, either in the sampling phase or in the output is affecting the sound in a very euphonic way.
jmclen7 1 year ago
Great post, was this ever released?
fishybishbash 1 year ago
I generally have less than zero interest in electronica but in FZ's case, though, it's an entirely different animal. The synclavier in his hands is a tool to visualize the notes on the page. It's planned, literate, and disciplined. Note how this sounds by musicians who take it seriously, for example by Dweezil's "Zappa Plays Zappa" (youtube[DOT]com/watch?v=GDwRJK8bpb4&feature=related) and studied by students like thsi guy: youtubep[DOT]com/watch?v=m7BiUyTCQwA
Bob6stringer 1 year ago
FRANK is/was VANGUARD
xwarx1000 1 year ago
Beautiful Music................stop comparing Kraftwreck with Mr.FRANK ZAPPA.
what a bad joke...get a life.
xwarx1000 1 year ago
This is so cool! I love his Synclavier work. Jazz From Hell is great and I'd love to get Francesco Zappa. Are there any other albums he made that were all on the Synclavier?
jocovo84 1 year ago
Sounds very SUPER NINTENDO!
My Commodore machines are integral to my home recording studio. Click my name to discover my Commodore 64 videos. Or view my other page, THEDUSTPILE, to hear some great chiptunes on my videos.
Or visit dustybin org uk for mountains of Commodore 64 music software and other goodies I have collected.
OnlyGoodCommie 1 year ago
I have this on a keyboard magazine diskette. This is one of the must awesome version. The musical notation transcription is a master opus in itself. I'm still studying it, some 20+yrs after I first heard it.
zarwarrior 1 year ago
@zarwarrior Holy frick, you have that?! Awesome! I'm quite jealous. I unfortunately wouldn't have anything to play the diskette on, so I guess it's better in your hands, haha.
Deloreansyk 1 year ago
Sweet! FZ.
m11gtr 1 year ago
Wow, this is great!
Industriebrot 1 year ago
@roncstelep. Your a moron! This is commonly known as one of the most difficult pieces to play on drums accurately. FACT! Watch an interview with terry bozzio or anyone else that's tried to pull it off and perhaps you might understand. Plus kraftwerk used guys on synths, the synclavier was a way to exclude the use of humans to recreate a perfect performance every time and on this particular track, to recreate a live band, not synths. Kraftwerk have little or nothing to do with this....
meccaollielord 1 year ago
Yes,the difficulty is never the question.Bozzio also.It seems you don't know too much about Kraftwerk anyway.But you don't talk about the music but about the technique it's made of, what in itself has nothing to do to the methaphisical content of the music.If a music is good because it's difficult,it's not music but a kind of puzzle to solve.The soul doesn't calculate.It wants forget the immanency but obey to the external force made by the musician.I'd call it surrender.(To the music)..
roncstelep 1 year ago
@roncstelep "But you don't talk about the music but about the technique it's made of, what in itself has nothing to do to the methaphisical content of the music."
I guess meth heads look for the metha(something). This is a musical object. It's not even very complicated, cf. to some African concepts. It's a nice melody that happens to use rhythms that cross the pulse. That is talking about the music object.
Which you aren't equipped to do. So, you throw bullshit out to compensate.
jancivil 1 year ago
i always wanted a synclavier. haha! zappa was too cool. saw him live, once. like larwerence welk on acid.
sayyes2bull 1 year ago
Bollocks!
winstonschwarz 1 year ago
opinions are like assholes, everybody has one!!??
muddack 1 year ago
not getting much out of this; can't think what the music's trying to express.
Anybody got any veras?
Captain2Pig 1 year ago
This is clearly designed to be enjoyed by other musicians.
Modes9 1 year ago
This is music. Everything else isn't.
MovingToMontana 1 year ago
Part of this "lifelessness" as it's been described here I think is due largely to the fact that these early units didn't really have a lot of ways to humanize the finished product.. also quantizing, while making it tight, removes any remaining signs of life.
I imagine for a composer like Zappa this was a great tool for proof of concept before presenting it to a band.
cranie4 1 year ago
Could be,but this is not the case.On this machine you have many ways to humanize and play with many real-time controllers.But this isn't why it's tasteless for me.It's because the music is so abstract and random-like that the soul finds no grip on a melody because it lacks that.Real music is like an effortless drifting power,a melody,a fountain of metaphisics,a fly to the space.Here I only hear the extreme effort - being put for the next to nothing...
roncstelep 1 year ago
@roncstelep Well I agree that is one form of music. However there are people who love Sun Ra..and for the life of me I can't wrap my head around it. Doesn't make it any less musical, it's up for interpretation by the listener just as some art lovers may feel Picasso or Pollock pieces weren't true art and others do. And lets remember this is like looking at someones rough sketch. He never said it was completed or released it for our scrutiny..(the white zone is for loading or unloading only...;)
cranie4 1 year ago
OK,he had some self-control then.I don't quite agree with you.Firstly one have to determine what is the MOST common thing in every possibile music?I think that will be the essence of it all.Then we have to approach the question from that point and I think the more a questioning music will provide something from that specified maxima, the more we will be able to call it music.The other appr:the state of mind.Why do we need music anyway?Both can be answered quite well.no more character left...
roncstelep 1 year ago
@roncstelep "Firstly one have to determine what is the MOST common thing in every possibile music?" Why? That seeks to be a pronouncement but is a lot of empty air.
You have said exactly nothing in that post.
Here's a heads-up for you: Listening to music ≠ reading philosophers. An appreciation of music involves information about music. You haven't typed one thing to criticize a musical object. It's a lot of words, some of which you fail to understand the sense of or how to use syntactically.
jancivil 1 year ago
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jancivil 1 year ago
@roncstelep "Firstly one have to determine what is the MOST common thing in every possibile music?" Im a composer. I 'determine' based on a musical situation. You haven't the first clue what that is. You determined that you didn't like it, and thinking dont enter into it.
Calling 'music' = the same as calling 'art'. Put a frame around an object, DONE.
Youre not an authority on music. You have no value as a critic.
You have no ears and a mind full of shit.
jancivil 1 year ago
Please leave me!I'm not interested in any debating anymore!I'm a composer and one of the greatest synthesist in the world.The music is in my veins,I've had houndreds of synths,thousands of albums.I could write such track anyday.Let that all be enough now.You are not the one to tell me who Iam,or who Iam not.Many has been trying that without success.I know myself because I'mextremely honest.Please stop being so very clever because I totally disagree what you say.You don't know me.
roncstelep 1 year ago
@roncstelep yeah yeah your a genius, one of the greatest synthesist in the world or whatever.. whenever Pierre Boulez or Nicolas Slominsky even express interest in your works, let alone conduct them with great interest like they did Zappa's, i'll listen to what you have to say about yourself... ps. check out Dupree's Paradise/Amazing Mr. Bickford conducted by Pierre Boulez here on youtube and THEN let me know how much better an arranger you are
TheJadePinwheel 1 year ago 11
@roncstelep I checked your channel ready to be marveled at your compositions. Instead I found a couple of stupid videos of a model train going forwards and backwards. Wowie Zowie.
estvan56 8 months ago
Amazing! One could only imagine what he would be creating if he were here with us today.
zenmachinefilms 1 year ago
I have this recording on a floppy record from Keyboard Magazine. They had the score also. Lots of 5lets 7lets 13lets if I remember right.
Shevaron 1 year ago
Wow, thanks for posting. Great pictures too (of the studio and the Sync.)
pazzensutra 1 year ago
Wow!!!
Frisbieinstein 1 year ago
...and dream of guitar notes that would irritate an executive kind of guy...
billylowground 1 year ago
Where did this come from?!
Squee36 1 year ago
RONCSTELEP you are an idiot and don't have a clue of what you are talking about.
If you owned a synclavier you would know that most of those ARE NOT SOUNDS FROM THE SYNCLAVIER LIBRARY.
Frank probably made more custom samples than any artist with a Synclavier and he was one of the first if not THE first to figure-out how to produce stereo samples.
The giants of the industry have pretty well lauded Frank for his works and anyone knows the instrument knows that he pushed it FAR beyond it's limits.
dbbubba 1 year ago
@dbbubba You are also an idiot.The essence of the music is not the question of where the timbres are coming from.Zappa's synthesizer music I find totally shit from every aspect: The music can't be enjoyed, the sonic timbres are VERY tasteless as is the whole product is.I like some FZ works but I rate him under the worst electr.-music composers.Just compare it to say:J-M Jarre-Oxygene, or to Kraftwerk!...
roncstelep 1 year ago
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Speedsterp 1 year ago
His synth was the state of the art workstation of the time and he handled it good.I'd NEVER make such shit,even if I knew I have a cancer. I don't understand how your examples come here?The way of the world doesn't show the real importance of a certain composition.The 90% developement of the culture is based on snobbery,just as he importance of the Black Page. Autoban is a genious work, and too simple to teach it.Black Page is complicatedly says nothing.
roncstelep 1 year ago
@roncstelep your musical credibility is next to nothing. your youtube page consists of model train uploads. kraftwerk would be ashamed of you for using them to put down zappa.
rosenbluntz 1 year ago
@rosenbluntz You are not the one to tell who am I. You don't know about the train and also nothing about my state of mind which you'd rank above anybody else you'd debate fce to face and not hidden.... Sorry but I think everybody's here admiring this half-idiot person (FZ) are also like him. Can be gentleman, weared in style, knowing what to do but not knowing the essence.... PLEASE you mindlesses, LEAVE ME OR ASK ME if you are uncertain!
roncstelep 1 year ago
@roncstelep anymore talk like calling zappa a ''half-idiot person'' and i'll block u ! what a stupid thing to say.
timmo1782 1 year ago
Dear Timmo! I'm sorry to say but I think only some kind of not easy to express how many-precentage-idiots can act like you and the most people here so your very threatening promise is very-very childish.Who the hell is FZ,a god or what?Can't I have my own opinion?I see,I can only have the same opinion as yours.I don't mind while I haven't got anything from this forum yet.The fans here has nothing to do to the art and personally me,I like to come to conclusions...
roncstelep 1 year ago
What a stupid thing to say "blocking" because of an usage of an unwanted word for your half-idiot god...What other words are teasing you?I want to say,that you're not FZ,so please don't you identify yourself with my opinion about him otherwise I start think the same from you with some rasons despite of how I really want to avoid anything as a defending anybody here except the real "guilty": the artist who is the blame of lacking the real spice.
roncstelep 1 year ago
I'd also warn you,that the word of idiot were used first for me by another user.Did you warned him?I think the word in relation to FZ is not allowed.I'm not angry but you know what?I act in the spirit of the ever rebelling FZ and I have to say,that you are also a half-idiot person,firstly because of listening FZ who NEVER in his entire life made anything transcendental what would be the essence of every art,2nd:because you act feminin despite of supposingly being a man.Sorry.Goodbye
roncstelep 1 year ago
@roncstelep You don't make any sense. You'd have better luck replying in German; I'd certainly understand it just as well. kraftwerk is still ashamed.
rosenbluntz 1 year ago
Kraftwerk IS the idea,entirely transcendent,ever futuristic,high-tech,ever changing,with full of depth and beauty.All what FZ totally lacks but especially the only track I've critsized here.Nothing else but this 1.Can't a such BIIIIG artist have a weak track just because he is called FZ?I doubt,there's anybody on the planet enjoys it.The one who states controversary,I'd ask him what do he mean under joy?I think not the same as me:the distortion of the face by the beauty.Your face is distorting?
roncstelep 1 year ago
@roncstelep zappa never gave a shit if someone liked his music or not, he only created it for himself. some of zappa's music was/is so transcedent it's almost ridiculous, well from my point of view anyway.
timmo1782 1 year ago 16
I DON'T belive it even if he stated that.The English isn't my native language and I don't understand his lirycs but whatever I know from him are all EXTREMELY extrovert.His themes,titles,design,music,social-criticism.All was made for the public,for public exploitation.I doubt he ever made any notes with not taking the audience into account even he had some very alternative ways.I'd call it altero-snobbery.He was a clown to the public,a kind of invers-snob but snob anyway...
roncstelep 1 year ago
@roncstelep
I've read everything you posted here, and I've come to the conclusio that you're either a troll of Andy Kauffman-level skill, or you really need to see a doctor. I can't tell which.
devolve42 1 year ago
I don't know the name and sorry for not being interested in anybody's opinion on me.This forum isn't the casual place to express what I know about the life,the music,the art.Too few characters and even less true man.I think I have to hide and I ask you to please don't disturb.I know what do I know,and there's one thing for sure:there's nobody to change my opinion,nor about myself.There were many people tried to debate with me,up to now without any victory.I don't have faith in mankind anymore
roncstelep 1 year ago
...brown eyes,that nose.All are clear signs of the personality and I just mention in quotation mark that I doubt anything valuable can be done with such phisyognomy.I'm sorry,but it's really so simple and I haven't heard anything valuable from him.Well,some parts of Yellow Shark is OK,but all are cerebral and not for the "soul"(or what).I also don't remember anything transcendental from the rock,jazz genres altough I find transcendeny the goal of the music.Goodbye to all fans!
roncstelep 1 year ago
@timmo1782 You are 100% correct. Frank created what he wanted to hear. I f you like it to? Great. If not So What? See ya...! And that is the only attitude to have amongst so many human separations in taste. roncstelep doesn't know frank's catalog. Lots of basic simple things are included especially LIVE. But Frank got bored easily too. So to him, complexity was simple. He had years of personal writing experiments to get him to that point. He rehearsed incessantly to reach that level. WORK!
EddieGoregor 1 year ago
@timmo1782 that is so far removed from the truth that it is pathtic that you should write it here.....much of what he wrote was for pure consumption by the idiotic as well as his fans... not that there is anything wrong with that
jmlincolorado 7 months ago
@jmlincolorado why is it removed from the truth (the first part of what I said, i assume you're refering to?), when FZ said it himself?
timmo1782 7 months ago
@roncstelep Dude you are seriously stuck up.
You think this is un-enjoyable? Take issue with fucking Stockhausen man, or early Steve Reich or something. This is tame, in certain senses.
This melody is actually very beautiful. I admit this synthclavier version sounds a bit mechanic, try listening to it life with a bigband.
And, no, I don't feel necessary to define how I enjoy it. People enjoy art differently, accept it. Beauty is in the ears of the listener.
Hyardacil 1 year ago
I disagree.The question is NOT that how one can enjoy this but rather how he is able to enjoy ANYTHING?The ability for the joy.What is his maxima in ability for that?Let we first determine that as and then we will see differences in us:Typically he one who hasn't got that ability for that will think that the joy this music brings is a joy.The one who don't know what joy will say he enjoys that. What about then,say an exstatic,orgasm-like joy?...Sorry,people are very much the same...
roncstelep 1 year ago
@roncstelep i enjoy it. In fact i love it. I love all versions of the black page, this is just a delightful bonus.
geiroffenberg 1 year ago
@roncstelep I mean offense at this. There is no musician I look up to more than Frank Zappa. Sorry that you don't have the depth of musical insight to appreciate his music. This track I'm sure was just Zappa playing around. If it is so weak, I suggest you post a response of your greater track. This WEAK track on the other hand is taught in some of the most prestigious Jazz classes all over the world. Kraftwerk is nice but lame next to Zappa and will never own up to his greatness.
andrewman12 1 year ago
I'm sorry but I disagree.One more time a comm.about the greatness from the pespective of the world.World has nothing to do to the real greatness.The one who can be great in the world is very suspicious from the aspect of the greatest(and it's the genious).Genious can almost never be great in the world.Even the idealistic Bach was forgotten for a long while and had to be rediscovered.Kraftwerk established the elec.pop and they have the idea.FZ never had the idea.He just wrote,played music.
roncstelep 1 year ago
@roncstelep = Wrist watch crisco
elliotjhoffman 1 year ago
@elliotjhoffman
cornhole...
zarwarrior 1 year ago
@roncstelep Then go watch Kraftwerk.... jeez
r3dfiv3 1 year ago
@roncstelep You're either a troll, or a self-centered elitist. If you don't want to hear others opinions, stop waving around your own and claiming you know better than everybody else. Music is a subjective experience - some people will hate what others love, and if you can't get over that it's your problem.
Farksisten 1 year ago
Listen!I even know why others stating this or that,even before they open up their mouths.That's why I'm not quite interested in people's opinion because I've heard them all(mainly in the most important themes).But belive me,I have a hunger to find something and somebody extraordinary.I suffer from not to find enough massive,deep and thoughtful people and music.Geniousness is the ray I wanna bath in, at least as a listener.I ignore everything ordinary.I'm sorry to say that.
roncstelep 1 year ago
@roncstelep Ok, so you admit you're just trolling. Because otherwise you wouldn't be here according to your own words. For somebody who is just "hungering for geniuses", you seem to spend an awful lot of time posting comments and discussing things you then claim you don't want to talk about. Not to mention that you switch roles a lot.
Nobody is trying to force FZs music on you, but when you wander around being arrogant and dishonest, people will react.
Farksisten 1 year ago
@roncstelep Quite the claims there.
Musical genius is often disputed as well, different laymen and different educated people have different opinions on who is a genius and who is not. Define this "genius" what you want to hear?I might ask you: how much do you know about music at all, to be speaking like this? If yours were criticisms of a music-theory professor, then I have no dispute with you - I would simply not be at the same level. Allow me to have certain doubt in that however.
Hyardacil 1 year ago
FZ is rather succesful than disputed,and accordingly not genious(in my opin.)Peop.might have different opinions about everything but the geniousness is nothing else than the highest point of view requires a similar state to approach or to judge it..I'm not longer willing to talk about myself but the music is my life and have a very large coll.of everything and I'm very open to the good.I have my own theory which is not necess.different from that of,say Schopenhauer.Read him on the art!Genial.
roncstelep 1 year ago
@roncstelep "I have a hunger to find something and somebody extraordinary"
no, you really don't. You want Kraftwerk. You want people on a FZ page to stroke your ego behind your insertions of Schopenhaeur into a discussion to mask the fact you don't know shit from shinola musically while you troll. You expect to be uninterested in people's opinion while you spew but for them to 'respect mah authoritah!' You bathe in your own putrid aroma which no one wants to share in.
jancivil 1 year ago
@roncstelep "I ignore everything ordinary. I'm sorry to say that."
You should be sorry, because you're lying to yourself first, and inflicting yourself and your abject igorance of the content posted here onto people who have enough information to appreciate something you can't.
You prefer the strictly-from-ordinary Kraftwerk, which reveals you as utterly pedestrian.
jancivil 1 year ago
@roncstelep Do you know why he started using the Synclavier? Imagine that you have all of these ideas in your head and limited time to get them down. Then you find out you have cancer and will most likely be dying in a few years.
I think he said "Screw timbre, lets get this down."
I agree that he is not the best electronic musician. But centuries from now, orchestra students will be practicing "Night on Bald Mountain", "Brandenburg Concerto #3 " And "The Black Page #2 " ... not "Autobahn".
Speedsterp 1 year ago
Mindless, tasteless synthesizer music. I'd never make such...
roncstelep 1 year ago
@roncstelep you wish my dear don't forget.....it's not a synthesizer it's a synclavier.
jackdelawack 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Yes,I know! As much as I know the Synclavier itself among more than 500 synths I had.I have a very large Synclavier system with 10GBs of sounds with all acessory.I have my opinion about the user's psichology.Zappa was one of the most untalented synthesist of all times.Only used factory presets,cold and dead and tasteles sounds and even worse samples and made disturbed,pieced,chaotic,lifeless,tasteless music just like many others who approached Synclav not very creatively
roncstelep 1 year ago
@roncstelep try civilization III, his last ever album, a big step up in variety of timbre and the way the synclavier sounds. maybe though he was trying to make disturbed, chaotic pieces? certainly tasteless, if you have any knowledge of zappa, muhahaha.
timmo1782 1 year ago 3
@roncstelep Roncstelep - I've seen your comments on other Zappa videos, and to be honest, you really don't have a clue as to what you're on about. Please move on and use Youtube to watch things you enjoy, rather than critisize everyone elses tastes! Zappa was a talanted synthesist, and I'm sure that if you actually took the time out to sit down and watch the "Peefeeyatko" documentary you would find that out soon enough. Cheers
theknightmarlowe 1 year ago 2
@roncstelep you are such a fucking scientist, only concerned with finding the answer in logic and reason. Entropy says chaos is the truth, deal with it Mofo.
CaptainBuster 1 year ago
@CaptainBusterNo,I'm absolutely not,I prefer relying my senses and creating something with the help of logic ONLY afterwards.The system of the mind is just like that.First comes the sensing and one integrates that into his previous knowledge only afterwards and then maybe speaks out something from that all.I'm the best at preserving my impressions of the actual thing and then I talk about it with the help of it's context in my mind.Let's not talk about me but Zappa!
roncstelep 1 year ago
@roncstelep puedo suponer que no sabes nada de zappa, bueno tipico, if you need 10 gb maybe you are not good as zappa, no me importa si escribi bien o mal i respet your opinion.
yukzero 1 year ago
@roncstelep YOU ARE AN IDIOT.
89naturegirl 1 year ago
@89naturegirl A-ha, Iam an idiot because I have a different opinion.The problem is that you are much too touched by what I've written, like I was critisize you despite critisizing Zappa. This effect called sujectivism and I'd add: it's tipically (little) girl-ish.
roncstelep 1 year ago
@roncstelep Bottom line? You are ignorant of Zappa's music and process
and history.
squanto2 1 year ago
@roncstelep you're still an idiot!
89naturegirl 1 year ago
@roncstelep Can you do better? If so, please post it; I'd love to hear something that could improve on anything FZ made.
This is pretty early Zappa synclavier work. He admitted once that he only gradually came to understand how to best work with it, that his early attempts were not really great. This one mainly works because the Black Page #1 is such a great piece of music in general, but possibly it could have had a better arrangement on Synclavier.
Civ III is absolutely fantastic, though.
billmilliganhisself 1 year ago
@roncstelep I must confess I'm not as well versed in the Synclavier on an experiential level, but from what I understand the point was to make "lifeless" pieces in the sense that he was trying to obviate the drudgery of dealing with orchestras/performers/unions. Its in The Real Frank Zappa Book. He's also detailed how many thousands of dollars he's spent trying to get performers inline only to have them show up to shows drunk etc.
benjaminshinobi 1 year ago
@roncstelep the black page is a dark chaotic sound
drescora 1 year ago
@roncstelep Amen.
richcapo 1 year ago
@roncstelep You clearly haven't heard Civilization Phase III.
Squee36 1 year ago
@roncstelep You don't know what you are typing about.
You must not be familiar with Zappa music at all to type something
so uninformed.
squanto2 1 year ago
Why should I? The essence of every music speaks for itself. One don't have to know anything as informal background in order being able to enjoy the music. The more virgin the spirit is, the more it enjoys everything from the input.The principal of informal addendums in any relation to music is only the asylum of the people who are not quite familiar with themselves as a minded human-system...
roncstelep 1 year ago
@roncstelep your an idiot
BlackDeevil666 1 year ago
@roncstelep Definite moron! Get a life you pompous dick!
Waynereich 1 year ago
@jackdelawack Actually it is. Digital synthesis, but synthesis nonetheless. The more advanced Synclavs did offer sampling at an atrocious price. That is partly why the Fairlight did so well, they could underprice the Synclav since their system had it's own computer and operating system, whereas the Synclav required a DEC Vax minicomputer, which were amazingly expensive at the time.
dontillman 1 year ago
@roncstelep how is it mindless and tasteless?
DarkZekeX 1 year ago
I struggle to think of how ridiculously amazing Zappa's compositions would be now, with all the modern music technology and technical possibilities we have today.
We lost him at precisely the wrong time. Now we need him more than ever, and I'm not just on about the music when I say that...
R.I.P. Frank...
theknightmarlowe 1 year ago 2
I bet if saw Garageband, his head would explode
DimensionsofChange 1 year ago
the music of this gentleman still amazing me after say 40 years of listening, it quicks and boosts my life, thats for sure, and thanks Frank Zappa! love you!
manchonfz 1 year ago
jesus christ this is fucked
benlorenc 1 year ago
@benlorenc
That's the nicest thing that anyone has said so far about this track...
suziecreamchease 1 year ago
So scary version!! :D
i love it!
pildorito 1 year ago
one of Mr. Zappa's best.
louiseduvee 1 year ago
I love this.
bjc2 1 year ago
i for some reason like this i like this, reminds me of a old video game song :D
ninjae4976 2 years ago
I still have my copy from the what used to be Keyboard magazine. And it plays just fine too.
zarwarrior 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It sure must be hard to sight-read and play this, but musically it all doesn't make a shred of sense.
MomoTheBellyDancer 2 years ago