ECHAD MEANS UNITY, IT IS NOT THE SAME WORD AS YACHID! Genesis 2.24, LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE, Gen. 1.26, Dt. 6.4, John 10.30, 14.7-14, Matthew 28, amongst other passages all support the trinity. I'm a Jew, who came to Christ from Orthodox Judaism, I can attest that the Talmud has a debate whether HaShem is a unity, or a singular being. Yachid was a term used by Maimonides to try and disprove what Scripture teaches. However Let Scripture prevail, GOD IS ONE, ECHAD, IN THREE PERSONS!
The Shema has 3 names for God with 3 parts while the Rabbi pray with 3 fingers making the Hebrew character shin. The 2nd principle of Judaism is a God of Unity. Acts 2.38 is foreign language. Since on the day of Pentecost, Jews from other contries were being witness to by believers in Jesus in a different language. Speaking a foreign language is better than spiritual language. Search Shavuot on Jews for Jesus web page.
trinity is the doctrine from the catholic church and you still tied to its teachings of three gods god the father god the son god the holy spirit.. Jehovah was a made up name for the new translation but there is no such name on the scriptures it says THE LORD, GOD
@GooglFascists Theres' no way that's true. I'm in the UPC ministry. And they don't believe you can't get the Holy Ghost before your baptized. It can happen either way. Please don't try to lie about our denomination.
@GooglFascists ECHAD MEANS UNITY,IT IS NOT THE SAME WORD AS YACHID! Genesis 2.24, LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE, Gen. 1.26, Dt. 6.4, John 10.30, 14.7-14, Matthew 28, amongst other passages all support the trinity.I'm a Jew, who came to Christ from Orthodox Judaism,I can attest that the Talmud has a debate whether HaShem is a unity, or a singular being.Yachid was a term used by Maimonides to try and disprove what Scripture teaches.However Let Scripture prevail, GOD IS ONE, ECHAD, IN THREE PERSONS!
What is the definition of "Person" ? is it persona? 1 singular entity can definitely have different personae, HOWEVER, this does not make the singular into separate entities. All this debate to me seems like a foolish distraction, and a misunderstanding of terms. Where can I learn more regarding this?
Cannot God manifest himself in any way shape or form that he so desires? Can we agree that His ultimate manifestation is JESUS, and Jesus is the only Name by which we must be saved?
I'm not a Pentecostal but I wish these two would have given them a bit more time to speak. This was a very interesting discussion and I would liked to hear the Pentecostals' defense of their position a bit more.
The United Pentecostals shut these brothers down when they addressed Isaiah 9, There is mention of the "son" in this chapter being addressed as the "everlasting Father." When asked how many Fathers were there, they could not come up with a solid plausible answer. Then when the Pentecostals said that the brothers said that "there were three Jehovahs living simultaneously" they objected. wth. The trinitarians were confused. It's obviously both parties believe the same, they just word it differentl
its not rocket science all you have to do is read church history and see that every new convert was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ until man invented trinity and tried to exclude Jesus name baptism
United pentecostal are a CULT!! 1st they Deny the TRINITY when THE BIBLE clear talks about it! 1st of all in the Old Testament the Trinity is never mentioned bc the Israelis had idolatry tendencies!! They made a donkey out of Gold to worship now imagine God would've revealed the Trinity they wouldve have made idols (which is happening now with Jesus being crucifide still) and adored him and Jesus clearly states he came not to be gloried but to Glorify the FATHER!
@tiger507 Umm, no offense but the trinity is mentioned nowhere in the bible. It is not very clear. It takes doctrine to change your mind over to believe in it. I believe it. But the trinity took many years for me to grasp.
@NBAGOATS Philipians 2 . 5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in very nature[a] God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7but made himself nothing, taking the very nature[b] of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross!
@SKYSPLASH You're annoying and is totally missing the point. Accusing people of their attitudes because they don't believe something that you do is a self righteous act. Just shut up and let the truth find them. You push people away. You need to learn to just shut your trap.
Zechariah 2:10-11 (KJV) 10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, LO I COME, and I WILL DWELL IN THE MIDST OF THEE, SAITH THE LORD. 11 And many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and shall be MY PEOPLE and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD OF HOSTS HATH SENT ME UNTO THEE
acerrak.. so u say the young man was the aresser u not seeing too Good the oneness guy was at the edge of his seat ready to jump the trinity gentlemen What does that say about him and pointing fingers come on they just all get mad when the can't prove in the BIBLE that their way is the truth as they like to call it... huh .....???????
the trinitarians in this debate would neber give the oness any talk time. the younger trinitarian exspecially was rude but the oness showed the respect by lettign martin speak
Ok. I think that you (skyline coyote) can agree with me that "God is Love". Yes?
Alright, if so, what is love? Love can only exist if there is something to love. One cannot love if one is the only thing in existence. So if God existed before anything else did (I think we can both agree to that) and he is as you claim not in Trinity then that means that he is not Love because he had nothing to love before he created anything. I think a Loving God MUST exist in trinity. There is no other way.
St. John 1:1, says, in the beginning was Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Sounds like One God to me. In the beginning was God, God was with God, and God was God. The Lord Jesus Christ is God.
By the way, UPC is not the only church that believes in ONE God. Many others do, independent ones, Pentecostal Assemblies, Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ, Apostolic Church of God, Bible Way churches, and others.
Why argue over Scriptures? Either you believe it or not. Read the Holy Scriptures, and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal it to you. Jesus is the only name whereby one can be saved, read it in the book of Acts. People are saying the same, and do not understand it.
Why all the debate? Read the Scriptures. No where is the word "Trinity" found. Even the Old Testament says that God is ONE. Remember God is Spirit. Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is three manifesting of the One. Why is UPC called a cult, because many other churches disagree with them. Many Trinity churches have different beliefs too, does that makes them a cult? As for Baptism, read the Book of Acts, how were they baptized?
All people are human beings, including church people.
yes but the same word as trinity is the same as the issue with the bible. is bible name is on the scriptures? umm no it were all pergamins anyways u got alot of verses of the trinity (wich is 3 is one) and the old testament says too that there was God's spirit roaming on the waters. what makes it a cult? they are Jesus only no father no holy spirit. thats the problem if u want verses that says that 3 are 1 please ask ill help with no problem at all :)
Jesus' prayers to God the Father came from His human life, from the Incarnation. His prayers were not those of one divine person to another divine person of God, but those of an authentic human praying to the one true God. Prayer is based on an inferior being in supplication before a superior being. If the one praying is equal in power and authority to the one to whom he is praying, there is no genuine prayer (3).Jesus' prayers to God the Father came from His human life, from the Incarnation.
This is so sad. These UPC men really need prayer. I am Pentecostal, but I believe in the Trinity. Also, look at the body language for the UPC men. They are angry. When people do not know something or do not understand, they go on the attack. It's sad when people will not be open to learn. Sad.
Yes, many Pentecostals, like others, follow the Roman Catholic doctrine of the so-called Trinity. Yes, lots of Trinity people attack the ONE God people.
Father, Son, Holy Spirit are titles of the ONE God. Father in creation, Son in Redemption, and Holy Spirit is the Power of the One God. Check the history of the Roman Church, many doctrines the Protestants are following, Christmas( Christ Mass), and yeah the true Sabbath, they changed. .
Jesus is not the Father of the holy Trinity, His is the Son. And He is not the Holy Spirit because of Matt. 18:15-18, when the Son(Jesus) breathed the Holy Spirit onto the Apostles;) Jesus is the acting force of the Godhead. The Father is the mind, the Son is the body, the Spirit is of course the spirit.
Hi there,I want to know what is a Apostilic Pentecostal?I am a pentecostal too but its not called Apostilic, so i want to know what the difference is.I saw this video and found it kind of sad how these men are arguing about this.isnt it good enough to know that the father,the son,and the holy spirit are the same God and the three are one?The UPC got owned big time on this video.
Please refer to the video explanation and the links for a in depth understanding of UPC. I myself was once a member. Make sure to check out my playlist it contains the full debate.
Apostolic simply means one believes the same teachings of the apostles of the Holy Bible, and no, they did not teach the Trinity. Read the history of the early church in the book of Acts.
5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
I suppose You HAVE GRASPED what JESUS HAS NOT when he Took our Form.
The complete spiritual work of Jesus Christ on the cross. He would the the first fruit of all those to be saved according to God's own pleasure and purpose ordained from eternity.
It did depend on Abraham's work alone but God's special purpose and favor. Nothing from Eternity to Eternity is No Accident!
Everything about how God,Yes,remember how God choose us and His work in Christ continues even after we are saved in found in Ephesians 2:8-10. 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Yes, there is no words trinity or oneness Baptism mentioned in the Bible.
When we first came to the Lord Jesus for salvation we never fully understood how and God's triune nature. Each of us who are Born Again came from many different personal life backgrounds. We did have a sense that the Lord was always there planning for the day we would decide to allow Him into our hearts and lives even though we did not understand it was from Him that was drawing us to Him.
Yes, people,can be healed,delivered,from the Lord even though they are involved in a cult. The miracle of salvation is the greatest mystery just as the nature of God is.
Whether or not anyone believes in what method of Baptism everything depends on the Grace of God. Repentance,Confession and Spiritual Regeneration all depend on the Grace Pre-plan of God,period! We must be careful not to discredit,the Baptism of the Holy Spirit,healings,this is dangerous. People can be and have been truly experience these even though they were worshipping and attending a cult or false church service.
Can Oneness Pentacostals explain away people completely set free. Are they going to be like the Pharasee's were to the blind man who Jesus open his eyes?
Murray claims that Trinitarian Pentacostals who prayed to receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues,slained in the Spirit,felt healing are still not really saved. They are still lost.!
If someone could answer the below questions that would be appriciated. I'm just a guy who is looking for God or reality in its Truth. If these questions are answered than I'll have no problem believing it.
Genisis 1v26 Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.. through the Holy spirit God was talking to his Prophets 2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.
. How can Christ say that if he is also the Father? Wouldn't that be like saying "I am greater than myself"? Also, in Genesis, when God says "Let us make humankind in our image", who is "us"? Christ also says, on the cross, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?". If Jesus is his own God than why would he have abandoned himself?........TBC
The Problem is some do not want to walk by faith and dont want any mysteries. Such as the Mystery of CHrist in you. Or the Attributes of God.
Jesus claimed to be God in John 8 58 and the Jews picked up stones for he was making himself out to be equal with God by claiming to be Yaweh the Lord.
The Apostle Paul said to the Light Who are YOU LORD The Lite answered It is I Jesus whom you persecute.
MAKE SURE TO WATCH THE ENTIRE DEBATE 27 CLIPS ON MY PLAYLIST AND TAP ON LINKS ABOVE TO SITES.
Jesus is God manifested as flesh 1tim 3vs16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. that scripture alone you can not argue with.. read everyword carefully and understand it...
This debate is very interesting. There are a few things that i'd still like to understand. How would the United Pentacostal Church understand when Christ says "I will sit at the right hand of my Father"? What does that mean if God is only one person? I'm just trying to understand the UPC's position. This isn't an attack. Also, Christ says in John's Gospel that "the Father is greater than I". I'm also confused as to how that would work in a one person Godhead.....TBC
The human/fresh of Jesus was speaking of His Father(Spirit) remember God is Spirit. Really the titles of Fahter, Son, and Holy Spirit are that, manifestations of the One God. Father in creation, Son in redemption, and Holy Spirit the power of God. Otherwise, believing in the trinity you have three gods.
It takes the Holy Spirit to reveal or open ones eyes to see the teachings of Scriptures.
yeahhh right!!!! no trinity!!!! the founder of the trinity is dead now and he believe one GOD!!!!!! befor his die!!! his name Tertulian... woooooHH!!just research in!!! Roman Catholic incyclopedia. thanks! so that u will know! the truth.
If any religion is an occult it is the Catholic Church. They tell when to pray, what to pray and how to pray it and which person in the trinity to pray to. There is no freedom
One question for you. if your beliefs are true then how come you are not showing the love of Christ you say pentecostals suck big time but let me remind you Christ died for them as well
They know that already. What they dont realise is that using these gifts like rolling on the floor, laughing, and talking in tongues, will not help them get into heaven. The bible says grace not works.
I am not Pento but that last statement you said was only half true.1 Peter 1:17, James 2:24ish Matt. 25:31-46. Oh, and that thing Paul said in Ephesians wasnt concerning Christian works of faith, love, and charity. It was about the works of the Law of Moses. He was preaching to Jews in that scene.
In my view, if you believe in the trinity, you are not a "christian". In order to be a christian you must believe that Jesus is GOD almighty robed in flesh. The one and only true GOD. The root word in christian is christ, which means belief that the godhead is in Jesus Christ, that Jesus is evrything. Why do trinitarians pray for healing in Jesus name, pray for everything in Jesus name, but reject the name in baptism? Jesus died for our sins, right?
who do they think they are calling us a cult hello whats wrong with living right for God I don't want to be an Alcoholic or smoke drugs and I hate swearing its disgusting we worship 1 God wow! you can stick to your 3 gods Read your scriptures properly. I don't walk around with a long hood LOL or sacrifice sheep very judge mental Sad.:( Revelations chapter 4 there's only going to be One Throne (Hello) Not 3 read it and understand. if you are calling us a liar that makes the bible a lie.
James 2:7 speaks of the name by which you have been called? More like the name called over you. What is that name my trinitarian friends? and yes you are my brother. Am I your brother? The age of ignorance is coming to a close with a new generation of preachers who are exegeting the word instead of exegeting creeds.
IF the U.P.C. was right on this text, and they love this verse, could they point to where any part of this verse was fulfilled? No, walter is right, Isaiah 9:6 - means the characteristics of Christ, not his literal name.
The word Godhead is something possessed. Another translation is Deity. It means the fulness of God was in Christ, because Christ is God. You can't deny the personality of the Godhead. I would love to debate that. I agree with you that the name (singular) father, son, holy spirit was fulfilled in Acts 2:38. But in actuality, Peter would have said Yeshua which mean Joshua and not JEsus.
So if you want to narrow it down like your doing, then you have a problem. The importnace is weighed upon why you are, who you are being immersed into, and what reason for immersion.
well actually the name got lost in translation because of the greek alphabet it was somthing like "yehosua." But the name Jesus was translated in English as such. so I think God knows who we are talking about. Same thing in Spanish, when I pray in Spanish I call him Jesus (heh-soos) and I know he knows who Im talking to, it feels the same.
Exactly God knows who we are talking to and about. And when a man or woman is Baptized into CHrist By the authority of the father, son, holy spirit he knows and those who are surrouding know. So your "Jesus only" incorrect.
No one is asking you to pray out loud are they? God actually wants you to pray in your prayer closet instead of being a pharisee and praying out for everyone to see you. God commands confession actually and no one in the bible was ever immersed alone. That's why people were present and words were spoken when a person is immersed. And that's why Christ/Peter commanded them to be immersed into CHrist and not Alah or Buddah or any other false God.
So What you are saying is that I should live in a closet and never pray out loud? Your insinuation of Pharisees seems a bit shrewd for my case was based on public confession not on self-righteousness. A public confession is common in scripture along with private confessions. Like the annointing of Kings in the OT. The name of Jesus should be called upon the individual for even Timothy is reminded of the name invoked over you in baptism.
No, What I am saying is that you shouldn't boast and pray in the public so everyone will know how rightouess you are... God expects us to be humble and meek. We are actually told to confess that Jesus is the Christ infront of witnesses... Your argument is meaningless and pointless.
Come on Big RICK. You know bettern than to take our fellow readers on a roller coaster ride man. I specifically said that public confession is not related to self-righteousness and you went and reworded what you said and said the same thing I said but instead of self-righteous you said how "righteous you are." That was not the argument! It is based on the literal name that is invoked over the individual to be a witness to the non-believer on how to become part of the Christian community.
The only way you are made righteouss is when the blood of Christ covers your sins. THe bible links the word "Saved" with 12 directs statements in the word of God. Can you find them? I will start you off... Batpism, faith, hope... Here is the issue. You think if the name "Jesus Christ" is not said, it is not valid immersion. Well then which Jesus are you talking about? Islam of Christianity? Here is the point, those around you know you accept Christ as your savior, for you just repented..
Thanks for starting me off with a new testament scripture one lord one faith one baptism. I see that these threads can go forever so one question sums it all up. In what name were people baptized in the New Testament Book of Acts stories? Scholarly responses are preferred since I am a theological student working on my masters.
your welcome. I am not stretching anything. Romans 10:9 - Confess; 1 Peter 3:21 - baptism; Ephesians 2:8 - faith; Ephesians 2:8 - Grace; Romans 8:24 - hope; Luke 13:3 - repentence; and so on and so on. ... They were baptized into the name of Jesus. THe word "name" actually can mean authority. I am not fighting the name Jesus... All I am saying is if it was said "you are being immersed by Christian immersion" or "you are being immersed in the authority of the Father, son, H.S." - no contradict
The name of Jesus Christ or Lord Jesus, or the name of the Lord. Jesus is the name of the Lord, We are Buried with him Romans 6:4 and Colossians 2:12. Just pray and study God will Show you this if you ask him God Bless you
and confess his name. They know what immersion you are being immersed into... they know you take on the immersion of Christ. You can't aruge scripture...so all you have been doing is speaking rom whatever.
sounds like they are both saying the same thing to me lol and its obvious one runs the debate more than the other i find it hillarious both saying the same thing just different ways hahahahahaha
the bottom line is, is that scritpure teaches the Trinity hands down. Go into John, Jesus hints His oneness with the Father all over the place. If you have seen me you have seen the One who has sent Me. And as far as tongues go, read 1 Corinthians 12. Paul bashes the people for speaking in a tongue that has ZERO significance. Tongues was meant to edify the church. Not for pointless jibber jaber.
Well, I guess the question is..How many thrones will you see in Heaven? I will only see one...cuz theres one God..and if I pray to them seperatly, why can't I just pray to them one..if the three are the same..why Can't I call Jesus the Father..and Jesus the HS and the Father the Holy Spirit?! if theres one God? you can call it trinity or oneness..if you believe in ONe..thats the important thing
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Here, God the Father calls Jesus God and says He has a throne. If the Father has a throne and the Son has a throne . . . how many thrones is that? 1 plus 1 is 2.
Mt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 12 thrones plus 1 throne = 13 thrones.
Re 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. These 3 verses combined give us 14 thrones and 24 seats.
Ac 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. How many is that?
no no no, Father son Holy spirit are titles..like a person can be a father,son, and a friend..theres distinction in their roles but not in the person. When the bible talks about the Son its talking about the Incarnation, When God came to earth as a Human to clean us, thus now he can pour out his Spirit on us. Before the cross humans were dirty and God couldnt touch us lest we die..
Trinity makes no sense, you say they are all equal yet why do they need to ask permission to each other for things, and when one repents who do ask for forgiveness? the Father? THe Son Holy Spirit? WHO?? its true God has manifested himself in three forms, but that doesnt necessaraly make it three persons, its God in three forms..not Three persons in one God..
Please, show us where someone asked someone for permission. You think the Trinity doesn't make sense, but it makes since that Jesus talks to Himself, prays to Himself, sends Himself, is afraid He has forsaken Himself, came from Himself, must go away in order to come back, stands beside Himself, etc., etc. That makes since? Come on, give me a break.
First of all sense is the word not since. Jesus did not pray to himself! He prayed to the FATHER and yes he was man. Understanding Jesus in his humanity and deity is where Trinity believers stumble alot. When you see Son of Man think humanity and when you see Son of God think deity. And no don't quote Daniel 7 please....the interpreation of it is the church. Out of Egypt I called my son is a great example to study as it has dual connotation.
And by the way - verse 55 gave us His name, not title. Furthermore, dd it ever occur to you that you should look up the def. for the word "name"? It means - a word or words by which someone or something is known, addressed, or referred to. In Christendom, there's no doubt as to Who is being referred to when we say THE Father, THE Son, THE H.G. They are names.
so you are telling me that God (the Father) has a hand? when the bible clearly says that God is a Spirit and cannot be seen? what about when they say God has the whole world in his hand..does he literally have it or does it mean he controls it? see Jesus ( God in the flesh) was the simbol for Salvation.
Show me in the Bible where a spirit cannot have a hand. Did not the Bible call angels ministering spirits? Do they have hands? He created the heavens and earth with the span of His hand. The Oneness doctrine is the craziest doctrine I know of. Man, what difficulties you have explaining away Scripture. I just take it for what it says.
No, believing in One God is not crazy, either you worship the One true God, or you do not. Deut. 6:4 among other scriptures. Read the scriptures/The Holy Bible.
It seems that antropomorphism is taken literal by some and soon they will think that when God created the water by the blast of his nostrils that God literally blew his nose on earth. And that under his feathers we are safe means God is a fowl? God is spirit and you are right my friend!
As for speaking, many times the three God folks prefer to argue, and apparently occupied the talks more. The debate should be even divided, fair and balanced.
Well I can honestly say I'm a pentecostal and no we aren't a cult. I believe in God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. The bible says there are three that bare record in heaven father, son and holy spirit, and these three are one. I am a sister, a daughter, and a friend, but my name is Jessica. God is the father and God is the son and Gos is the Holy Ghost and his name is Jesus.
This Video is in refrence to an Occult offshoot of the pentecostal church. Clearly Pentecostals are not a cult and do believe in the concept of the Trinity Im sure if you Google you will see the differences. I have friends in the Pentecostal church who have nothing to do with the United Pentecostals.
Interesting enough, the United Pentecostal Church is not the only church that believes in One God.
So does the BibleWay churches, Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ, Pentecostal Assembies of Jesus Christ, and others... Yes, some Pentecostals still believe in the Roman Catholic doctrine of the Trinity.
all of christianity believes in one God. Christianity doesn't exist outside of monotheism. You might want to check your sources on "roman catholic doctrine of trinity" almost all pentecostals believe in the doctrine of the trinity. It was the Assemblies of God that kicked out oneness teachers and told them they were teaching false doctrince and that they were a cult. not sure you understand what your saying
This not surprising, I use to be in Trinity pentecostal church, but when I switched to the One God pentecostal church, some(not all) of the three God folks(Trinity) got so upset they didn't want to speak. Oh my, is that loving your neighbor as Christ said for us to do? Disbelief in a doctrine is one thing, but not loving your neighbor (anyone) is something else. The church world needs to follow the Ten Commandments.
Indeed I will tell you why. Notice very carefully what they are saying . In most Instances its the same Phrase repeated over and over again. A familiar practice of Pagans to cause a False spiritual Experience. Much as the Catholics Gregorian Chants. Jesus said DO NOT PRAY IN VAIN REPITITIONS.
i have a question for you do you know every language in the world.I live in south texas and go and minister in mexico all the time. There was a time when we were ministering in mexico that the Holy Ghost fell and some hispanics who did not know how to speak, read write any english began to speak perfect english. Just because it may sound like jibberish to you it does not meran it sounds like jibberish to all
Yup Grace is First then Faith. Jesus is author of our faith Hebrews 11. I will not hold to a form of Godliness ( Try to add to the work at the Cross) But denying its Power (or Deny that Jesus DID IT ALL Totalisti PAID IN FULL !
Even our Faith is a gift - we have no 'my faith' - ALL boasting is precluded by the LORD - because our Salvation rests upon Him and His Finished Works. (I know you know this, just a reminder)
Those who Preach/Teach anything apart from or added to the Grace God for Salvation teach another Gospel - they are accursed - Gal. 1:6-9.
Im fully aware of Galatians a book so many need to read again and again sadly many have tuned to another Gospel Another Jesus. And have added so much. I recently did a study on Tithing it made me sick to my stomach and caused much discourse with many brothers. I Disagree with Tithing. You give freely cheerfully not out of compulsion or a Law man made or pre existing.
The Debate was so unfair in the side of the United Pentecostal Church.The late Dr. Walter Martin together with his cohorts monopolized the discussion.
Such an unfair debate! God help us to be considerate of others and not so one sides that our belife has to be the only way but I do agree with the UPC and it is not a cult
This is only a portion of the Debate. The true sadness is that United Pentecostals can boast that they speak in tongues and that they were all completely bapitized(submerged under water) But Like the Thief on the cross I stand with nothing to Boast in Except Jesus by his Grace and My faith In Him. Eph2 8,9
ECHAD MEANS UNITY, IT IS NOT THE SAME WORD AS YACHID! Genesis 2.24, LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE, Gen. 1.26, Dt. 6.4, John 10.30, 14.7-14, Matthew 28, amongst other passages all support the trinity. I'm a Jew, who came to Christ from Orthodox Judaism, I can attest that the Talmud has a debate whether HaShem is a unity, or a singular being. Yachid was a term used by Maimonides to try and disprove what Scripture teaches. However Let Scripture prevail, GOD IS ONE, ECHAD, IN THREE PERSONS!
Menechem 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The Shema has 3 names for God with 3 parts while the Rabbi pray with 3 fingers making the Hebrew character shin. The 2nd principle of Judaism is a God of Unity. Acts 2.38 is foreign language. Since on the day of Pentecost, Jews from other contries were being witness to by believers in Jesus in a different language. Speaking a foreign language is better than spiritual language. Search Shavuot on Jews for Jesus web page.
MrHellowwww1 1 month ago
It's all very simple, in God's math 1+1+1=1.
Do I understand and know how that works? Nope.
Why would I? Trying to understand God is a waste of time.
jgallete 2 months ago
who is faster mighty mouse or superman?
9921yourwong 4 months ago
I like Walter Martin, I was right about manty things.
13SuperKings 8 months ago
trinity is the doctrine from the catholic church and you still tied to its teachings of three gods god the father god the son god the holy spirit.. Jehovah was a made up name for the new translation but there is no such name on the scriptures it says THE LORD, GOD
telectronicguy 8 months ago
I love the UPC because they love Jesus. I was at a UPC meeting
when they baptized a new convert. UPC believes nobody can
receive the baptism in the Holy Ghost UNTIL they are dunked in
water in the name of Jesus. They built an entire denomination on that.
Anyhow the man had already got saved but before they could get him in
the water he began speaking in tongues! They held his mouth shut til they
dipped him under so he wouldn't spoil their doctrine.
God don't play by OUR RULES, folks!
GooglFascists 9 months ago
@GooglFascists
Where in the world did you get your facts, we never in our doctrine said before the Holyghost there has to be baptism show me proof.
AndrewreCooper 9 months ago
@GooglFascists Theres' no way that's true. I'm in the UPC ministry. And they don't believe you can't get the Holy Ghost before your baptized. It can happen either way. Please don't try to lie about our denomination.
10jfrancis 8 months ago
@GooglFascists ECHAD MEANS UNITY,IT IS NOT THE SAME WORD AS YACHID! Genesis 2.24, LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE, Gen. 1.26, Dt. 6.4, John 10.30, 14.7-14, Matthew 28, amongst other passages all support the trinity.I'm a Jew, who came to Christ from Orthodox Judaism,I can attest that the Talmud has a debate whether HaShem is a unity, or a singular being.Yachid was a term used by Maimonides to try and disprove what Scripture teaches.However Let Scripture prevail, GOD IS ONE, ECHAD, IN THREE PERSONS!
Menechem 1 month ago
@SideSwipez77 you are ignorant. U have no idea...
CloverfieldMonster95 9 months ago
What is the definition of "Person" ? is it persona? 1 singular entity can definitely have different personae, HOWEVER, this does not make the singular into separate entities. All this debate to me seems like a foolish distraction, and a misunderstanding of terms. Where can I learn more regarding this?
Cannot God manifest himself in any way shape or form that he so desires? Can we agree that His ultimate manifestation is JESUS, and Jesus is the only Name by which we must be saved?
GiniaMarie1 10 months ago
Pentecostals sure are ignorant.
SideSwipez77 1 year ago
I'm not a Pentecostal but I wish these two would have given them a bit more time to speak. This was a very interesting discussion and I would liked to hear the Pentecostals' defense of their position a bit more.
RichieEastside 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
5 random questions to which I have never heard a protestant give a satisfactory answer:
1)What objective reasons do you have to consider the Bible to be inspired literature?
2)Where in the Bible does it say that the Bible is the only rule for faith?
3)Why does Saint Paul call the Church the foundation of truth?
4)Where is the only place in the Bible where the words "faith" and "alone" next to one another.
5)Why did Jesus give his apostles the authority to forgive sins?
sonofmary1 1 year ago
The United Pentecostals shut these brothers down when they addressed Isaiah 9, There is mention of the "son" in this chapter being addressed as the "everlasting Father." When asked how many Fathers were there, they could not come up with a solid plausible answer. Then when the Pentecostals said that the brothers said that "there were three Jehovahs living simultaneously" they objected. wth. The trinitarians were confused. It's obviously both parties believe the same, they just word it differentl
oneness978 1 year ago
its not rocket science all you have to do is read church history and see that every new convert was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ until man invented trinity and tried to exclude Jesus name baptism
erichathy222 1 year ago
United pentecostal are a CULT!! 1st they Deny the TRINITY when THE BIBLE clear talks about it! 1st of all in the Old Testament the Trinity is never mentioned bc the Israelis had idolatry tendencies!! They made a donkey out of Gold to worship now imagine God would've revealed the Trinity they wouldve have made idols (which is happening now with Jesus being crucifide still) and adored him and Jesus clearly states he came not to be gloried but to Glorify the FATHER!
tiger507 1 year ago
@tiger507 Umm, no offense but the trinity is mentioned nowhere in the bible. It is not very clear. It takes doctrine to change your mind over to believe in it. I believe it. But the trinity took many years for me to grasp.
NBAGOATS 1 year ago
@NBAGOATS The word BIBLE is mentioned no where in the bible. The numbers in the bible were never there So does this make both of these things invalid.
Who was speaking to Jesus at his Baptism and what did the dove signify.
what does this statement mean.
SKYSPLASH 1 year ago
@NBAGOATS Philipians 2 . 5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in very nature[a] God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7but made himself nothing, taking the very nature[b] of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross!
SKYSPLASH 1 year ago
@SKYSPLASH You're annoying and is totally missing the point. Accusing people of their attitudes because they don't believe something that you do is a self righteous act. Just shut up and let the truth find them. You push people away. You need to learn to just shut your trap.
NBAGOATS 1 year ago
@SKYSPLASH apparently you can Grasp after what Jesus would not.
SKYSPLASH 1 year ago
@tiger507 may He did not revealed the trinity because there is no such thing
telectronicguy 8 months ago
scribd (dot) com/nb812
DreamsofMajesty 1 year ago
BROTHER, WHAT IS YOUR INTERPRETATION OF THIS?
HERE ARE TWO
Zechariah 2:10-11 (KJV) 10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, LO I COME, and I WILL DWELL IN THE MIDST OF THEE, SAITH THE LORD. 11 And many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and shall be MY PEOPLE and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD OF HOSTS HATH SENT ME UNTO THEE
HARLANGENEPARROTT 1 year ago
acerrak.. so u say the young man was the aresser u not seeing too Good the oneness guy was at the edge of his seat ready to jump the trinity gentlemen What does that say about him and pointing fingers come on they just all get mad when the can't prove in the BIBLE that their way is the truth as they like to call it... huh .....???????
hischild777 1 year ago
i just watched these men tear to pieces the oneness doctine
hischild777 1 year ago
the trinitarians in this debate would neber give the oness any talk time. the younger trinitarian exspecially was rude but the oness showed the respect by lettign martin speak
Acerrak 1 year ago
Ok. I think that you (skyline coyote) can agree with me that "God is Love". Yes?
Alright, if so, what is love? Love can only exist if there is something to love. One cannot love if one is the only thing in existence. So if God existed before anything else did (I think we can both agree to that) and he is as you claim not in Trinity then that means that he is not Love because he had nothing to love before he created anything. I think a Loving God MUST exist in trinity. There is no other way.
sonicx2112 2 years ago
please help me i need christain freinds and subs please
erichathy222 2 years ago
1 John 5:-7 there are three witnessess that bear record in heaven,The Father The Word wich is Jesus and the Holy Spirit and these three are One
blessedwithoutmeasur 2 years ago
St. John 1:1, says, in the beginning was Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Sounds like One God to me. In the beginning was God, God was with God, and God was God. The Lord Jesus Christ is God.
SkylineCoyote 2 years ago
they are all God and one three persons Father God Jesus is God The Holy Spirit is God Three in one
blessedwithoutmeasur 2 years ago
guess im in a cult... sweet..
FrumpyMittens 2 years ago
By the way, UPC is not the only church that believes in ONE God. Many others do, independent ones, Pentecostal Assemblies, Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ, Apostolic Church of God, Bible Way churches, and others.
Why argue over Scriptures? Either you believe it or not. Read the Holy Scriptures, and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal it to you. Jesus is the only name whereby one can be saved, read it in the book of Acts. People are saying the same, and do not understand it.
SkylineCoyote 2 years ago
Why all the debate? Read the Scriptures. No where is the word "Trinity" found. Even the Old Testament says that God is ONE. Remember God is Spirit. Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is three manifesting of the One. Why is UPC called a cult, because many other churches disagree with them. Many Trinity churches have different beliefs too, does that makes them a cult? As for Baptism, read the Book of Acts, how were they baptized?
All people are human beings, including church people.
SkylineCoyote 2 years ago
yes but the same word as trinity is the same as the issue with the bible. is bible name is on the scriptures? umm no it were all pergamins anyways u got alot of verses of the trinity (wich is 3 is one) and the old testament says too that there was God's spirit roaming on the waters. what makes it a cult? they are Jesus only no father no holy spirit. thats the problem if u want verses that says that 3 are 1 please ask ill help with no problem at all :)
Mesianico91 2 years ago
1.The doctrine is: there is one god but has three centers of consciousness. This is compatible with verses that say God is one.
2.The Greek Explains that there are three beings, what is the essence of a being:its consciousness
3.WE conclude that there is ONE god but with 3 centers of consciousness.
4.Your called a cult because you deny core Orthodox doctrine. IT my sound like a nasty word but that is all that it means.
theonlyway2truth 2 years ago
Morons spreading mental illness.
luxfair 2 years ago
"That's why you're a cult." LOL! Walter Martin was the best!
msb0000 3 years ago
He was rude and talked too much.
wonone100 2 years ago
He was the one speaking truth-Dr. Martin, that is.
msb0000 2 years ago
i enjoyed this debate thanks for posting this
bumbacutthoat 3 years ago
Jesus' prayers to God the Father came from His human life, from the Incarnation. His prayers were not those of one divine person to another divine person of God, but those of an authentic human praying to the one true God. Prayer is based on an inferior being in supplication before a superior being. If the one praying is equal in power and authority to the one to whom he is praying, there is no genuine prayer (3).Jesus' prayers to God the Father came from His human life, from the Incarnation.
passionformusic07 3 years ago
lol upc is getting owned!!!!! the need to learn when to give up on attacking Christians
ericissilver 3 years ago
Be sure to watch the FULL DEBATE on my Playlist.
SKYSPLASH 3 years ago
the trinity men back up everything and the upc cant back up anything,,,i like how they get mad when the know there in the wrong
ericissilver 3 years ago
This is so sad. These UPC men really need prayer. I am Pentecostal, but I believe in the Trinity. Also, look at the body language for the UPC men. They are angry. When people do not know something or do not understand, they go on the attack. It's sad when people will not be open to learn. Sad.
cincytuckyblk 3 years ago
Everyone needs prayer.
Yes, many Pentecostals, like others, follow the Roman Catholic doctrine of the so-called Trinity. Yes, lots of Trinity people attack the ONE God people.
Father, Son, Holy Spirit are titles of the ONE God. Father in creation, Son in Redemption, and Holy Spirit is the Power of the One God. Check the history of the Roman Church, many doctrines the Protestants are following, Christmas( Christ Mass), and yeah the true Sabbath, they changed. .
SkylineCoyote 2 years ago
Jesus is the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost! We are not a cult!!!
Kat22006 3 years ago
Jesus is not the Father of the holy Trinity, His is the Son. And He is not the Holy Spirit because of Matt. 18:15-18, when the Son(Jesus) breathed the Holy Spirit onto the Apostles;) Jesus is the acting force of the Godhead. The Father is the mind, the Son is the body, the Spirit is of course the spirit.
SouthernCatholic 3 years ago
Hi there,I want to know what is a Apostilic Pentecostal?I am a pentecostal too but its not called Apostilic, so i want to know what the difference is.I saw this video and found it kind of sad how these men are arguing about this.isnt it good enough to know that the father,the son,and the holy spirit are the same God and the three are one?The UPC got owned big time on this video.
DictatorStatus 3 years ago
Please refer to the video explanation and the links for a in depth understanding of UPC. I myself was once a member. Make sure to check out my playlist it contains the full debate.
SKYSPLASH 3 years ago
Apostolic simply means one believes the same teachings of the apostles of the Holy Bible, and no, they did not teach the Trinity. Read the history of the early church in the book of Acts.
SkylineCoyote 2 years ago
Any Apostolic(true one) attempts to follow the teachings of the Early Apostles.
Usually Apostolics are One God folks, yes, some Pentecostals are One God folks too, though some believe in the three Gods(Trinity).
SkylineCoyote 2 years ago
Jesus was a man, so was his father Joseph, his mother Mary was an unwed mother, no mystery.
nalymac1 3 years ago
Phillipians 2
5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
I suppose You HAVE GRASPED what JESUS HAS NOT when he Took our Form.
SKYSPLASH 3 years ago
The Bible says in 1 John 5:7:
7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
NiagaraFallsOnt 3 years ago
The complete spiritual work of Jesus Christ on the cross. He would the the first fruit of all those to be saved according to God's own pleasure and purpose ordained from eternity.
It did depend on Abraham's work alone but God's special purpose and favor. Nothing from Eternity to Eternity is No Accident!
NiagaraFallsOnt 3 years ago
Yes, roncarl but cannot we be saved unless God draws us to true genuine repentance and faith in Jesus Christ.
NiagaraFallsOnt 3 years ago
Everything about how God,Yes,remember how God choose us and His work in Christ continues even after we are saved in found in Ephesians 2:8-10. 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
NiagaraFallsOnt 3 years ago
Yes, there is no words trinity or oneness Baptism mentioned in the Bible.
When we first came to the Lord Jesus for salvation we never fully understood how and God's triune nature. Each of us who are Born Again came from many different personal life backgrounds. We did have a sense that the Lord was always there planning for the day we would decide to allow Him into our hearts and lives even though we did not understand it was from Him that was drawing us to Him.
NiagaraFallsOnt 3 years ago
Regardless people can still be saved no matter where they have come from or where they go to worship,believe.
NiagaraFallsOnt 3 years ago
Yes, people,can be healed,delivered,from the Lord even though they are involved in a cult. The miracle of salvation is the greatest mystery just as the nature of God is.
NiagaraFallsOnt 3 years ago
Whether or not anyone believes in what method of Baptism everything depends on the Grace of God. Repentance,Confession and Spiritual Regeneration all depend on the Grace Pre-plan of God,period! We must be careful not to discredit,the Baptism of the Holy Spirit,healings,this is dangerous. People can be and have been truly experience these even though they were worshipping and attending a cult or false church service.
NiagaraFallsOnt 3 years ago
Can Oneness Pentacostals explain away people completely set free. Are they going to be like the Pharasee's were to the blind man who Jesus open his eyes?
NiagaraFallsOnt 3 years ago
Yes, Oneness Pentecostals are set free thru the shed blood of Christ, like anyone else who is drawn to Him.
SkylineCoyote 2 years ago
Murray claims that Trinitarian Pentacostals who prayed to receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues,slained in the Spirit,felt healing are still not really saved. They are still lost.!
NiagaraFallsOnt 3 years ago
jesus is god so GOD is jesus thank you lord
the devel also belive there is one god and fear
GodPeeps 3 years ago
If someone could answer the below questions that would be appriciated. I'm just a guy who is looking for God or reality in its Truth. If these questions are answered than I'll have no problem believing it.
sonicx2112 3 years ago
Genisis 1v26 Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.. through the Holy spirit God was talking to his Prophets 2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.
purrtikat 3 years ago
. How can Christ say that if he is also the Father? Wouldn't that be like saying "I am greater than myself"? Also, in Genesis, when God says "Let us make humankind in our image", who is "us"? Christ also says, on the cross, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?". If Jesus is his own God than why would he have abandoned himself?........TBC
sonicx2112 3 years ago
The Problem is some do not want to walk by faith and dont want any mysteries. Such as the Mystery of CHrist in you. Or the Attributes of God.
Jesus claimed to be God in John 8 58 and the Jews picked up stones for he was making himself out to be equal with God by claiming to be Yaweh the Lord.
The Apostle Paul said to the Light Who are YOU LORD The Lite answered It is I Jesus whom you persecute.
MAKE SURE TO WATCH THE ENTIRE DEBATE 27 CLIPS ON MY PLAYLIST AND TAP ON LINKS ABOVE TO SITES.
SKYSPLASH 3 years ago
Jesus is God manifested as flesh 1tim 3vs16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. that scripture alone you can not argue with.. read everyword carefully and understand it...
purrtikat 3 years ago
This debate is very interesting. There are a few things that i'd still like to understand. How would the United Pentacostal Church understand when Christ says "I will sit at the right hand of my Father"? What does that mean if God is only one person? I'm just trying to understand the UPC's position. This isn't an attack. Also, Christ says in John's Gospel that "the Father is greater than I". I'm also confused as to how that would work in a one person Godhead.....TBC
sonicx2112 3 years ago
The human/fresh of Jesus was speaking of His Father(Spirit) remember God is Spirit. Really the titles of Fahter, Son, and Holy Spirit are that, manifestations of the One God. Father in creation, Son in redemption, and Holy Spirit the power of God. Otherwise, believing in the trinity you have three gods.
It takes the Holy Spirit to reveal or open ones eyes to see the teachings of Scriptures.
SkylineCoyote 2 years ago
lol! taertulian is Catholic also coz trinity is the umbrela of Catholic u know?
davekidz 3 years ago
yeahhh right!!!! no trinity!!!! the founder of the trinity is dead now and he believe one GOD!!!!!! befor his die!!! his name Tertulian... woooooHH!!just research in!!! Roman Catholic incyclopedia. thanks! so that u will know! the truth.
davekidz 3 years ago
Tertulian was not a Roman Catholic.
ezekiel1977 3 years ago
If any religion is an occult it is the Catholic Church. They tell when to pray, what to pray and how to pray it and which person in the trinity to pray to. There is no freedom
setexcowboy 4 years ago
Pentecostals suck big time. My g/f was involved, i tried to tell her about the truth, but it was too late.
Portilloizay 4 years ago
One question for you. if your beliefs are true then how come you are not showing the love of Christ you say pentecostals suck big time but let me remind you Christ died for them as well
JPETERS3492 3 years ago
They know that already. What they dont realise is that using these gifts like rolling on the floor, laughing, and talking in tongues, will not help them get into heaven. The bible says grace not works.
Portilloizay 3 years ago
I am not Pento but that last statement you said was only half true.1 Peter 1:17, James 2:24ish Matt. 25:31-46. Oh, and that thing Paul said in Ephesians wasnt concerning Christian works of faith, love, and charity. It was about the works of the Law of Moses. He was preaching to Jews in that scene.
SouthernCatholic 3 years ago
I stand by what i said (had to look back to see what i said cause i didnt remember). Anyway, grace not works!
Portilloizay 3 years ago
In my view, if you believe in the trinity, you are not a "christian". In order to be a christian you must believe that Jesus is GOD almighty robed in flesh. The one and only true GOD. The root word in christian is christ, which means belief that the godhead is in Jesus Christ, that Jesus is evrything. Why do trinitarians pray for healing in Jesus name, pray for everything in Jesus name, but reject the name in baptism? Jesus died for our sins, right?
setexcowboy 4 years ago
Okay.....thats a little too far buddy. Trinitarians are Christians and are our brothers. Squash it before your theology squashes you!
postrero510 3 years ago
who do they think they are calling us a cult hello whats wrong with living right for God I don't want to be an Alcoholic or smoke drugs and I hate swearing its disgusting we worship 1 God wow! you can stick to your 3 gods Read your scriptures properly. I don't walk around with a long hood LOL or sacrifice sheep very judge mental Sad.:( Revelations chapter 4 there's only going to be One Throne (Hello) Not 3 read it and understand. if you are calling us a liar that makes the bible a lie.
KlownR 4 years ago
Trinitarianism is a LIE!!!!!!!
NoSuchThingAsTrinity 4 years ago
James 2:7 speaks of the name by which you have been called? More like the name called over you. What is that name my trinitarian friends? and yes you are my brother. Am I your brother? The age of ignorance is coming to a close with a new generation of preachers who are exegeting the word instead of exegeting creeds.
postrero510 4 years ago
IF the U.P.C. was right on this text, and they love this verse, could they point to where any part of this verse was fulfilled? No, walter is right, Isaiah 9:6 - means the characteristics of Christ, not his literal name.
BigRick777 4 years ago
ok.. but I would rather be baptized the way they did in the first church that the way the Catholics made up to be...thats just me tho..
superschwerkraft 4 years ago
Yeah me too...I was baptized just like Acts 2:38. The Christian immersion, the one baptism, in Jesus name. That's what the bible preaches.
BigRick777 4 years ago
and thats your answer for Matt 28:19..whats the name of the father, Son and Holy Spirit..Jesus..The Fullness of the godhead is in Jesus..
superschwerkraft 4 years ago 2
The word Godhead is something possessed. Another translation is Deity. It means the fulness of God was in Christ, because Christ is God. You can't deny the personality of the Godhead. I would love to debate that. I agree with you that the name (singular) father, son, holy spirit was fulfilled in Acts 2:38. But in actuality, Peter would have said Yeshua which mean Joshua and not JEsus.
BigRick777 4 years ago
GOOD POINT!
postrero510 4 years ago
So if you want to narrow it down like your doing, then you have a problem. The importnace is weighed upon why you are, who you are being immersed into, and what reason for immersion.
BigRick777 4 years ago
well actually the name got lost in translation because of the greek alphabet it was somthing like "yehosua." But the name Jesus was translated in English as such. so I think God knows who we are talking about. Same thing in Spanish, when I pray in Spanish I call him Jesus (heh-soos) and I know he knows who Im talking to, it feels the same.
superschwerkraft 4 years ago
Exactly God knows who we are talking to and about. And when a man or woman is Baptized into CHrist By the authority of the father, son, holy spirit he knows and those who are surrouding know. So your "Jesus only" incorrect.
BigRick777 4 years ago
Since God know my thoughts I will no longer pray out loud since He can just read my mind right?
postrero510 4 years ago
No one is asking you to pray out loud are they? God actually wants you to pray in your prayer closet instead of being a pharisee and praying out for everyone to see you. God commands confession actually and no one in the bible was ever immersed alone. That's why people were present and words were spoken when a person is immersed. And that's why Christ/Peter commanded them to be immersed into CHrist and not Alah or Buddah or any other false God.
BigRick777 4 years ago
So What you are saying is that I should live in a closet and never pray out loud? Your insinuation of Pharisees seems a bit shrewd for my case was based on public confession not on self-righteousness. A public confession is common in scripture along with private confessions. Like the annointing of Kings in the OT. The name of Jesus should be called upon the individual for even Timothy is reminded of the name invoked over you in baptism.
postrero510 4 years ago
No, What I am saying is that you shouldn't boast and pray in the public so everyone will know how rightouess you are... God expects us to be humble and meek. We are actually told to confess that Jesus is the Christ infront of witnesses... Your argument is meaningless and pointless.
BigRick778 4 years ago
Come on Big RICK. You know bettern than to take our fellow readers on a roller coaster ride man. I specifically said that public confession is not related to self-righteousness and you went and reworded what you said and said the same thing I said but instead of self-righteous you said how "righteous you are." That was not the argument! It is based on the literal name that is invoked over the individual to be a witness to the non-believer on how to become part of the Christian community.
postrero510 4 years ago
The only way you are made righteouss is when the blood of Christ covers your sins. THe bible links the word "Saved" with 12 directs statements in the word of God. Can you find them? I will start you off... Batpism, faith, hope... Here is the issue. You think if the name "Jesus Christ" is not said, it is not valid immersion. Well then which Jesus are you talking about? Islam of Christianity? Here is the point, those around you know you accept Christ as your savior, for you just repented..
BigRick778 4 years ago
Thanks for starting me off with a new testament scripture one lord one faith one baptism. I see that these threads can go forever so one question sums it all up. In what name were people baptized in the New Testament Book of Acts stories? Scholarly responses are preferred since I am a theological student working on my masters.
postrero510 4 years ago
your welcome. I am not stretching anything. Romans 10:9 - Confess; 1 Peter 3:21 - baptism; Ephesians 2:8 - faith; Ephesians 2:8 - Grace; Romans 8:24 - hope; Luke 13:3 - repentence; and so on and so on. ... They were baptized into the name of Jesus. THe word "name" actually can mean authority. I am not fighting the name Jesus... All I am saying is if it was said "you are being immersed by Christian immersion" or "you are being immersed in the authority of the Father, son, H.S." - no contradict
BigRick778 4 years ago
The name of Jesus Christ or Lord Jesus, or the name of the Lord. Jesus is the name of the Lord, We are Buried with him Romans 6:4 and Colossians 2:12. Just pray and study God will Show you this if you ask him God Bless you
roncarl 3 years ago
and confess his name. They know what immersion you are being immersed into... they know you take on the immersion of Christ. You can't aruge scripture...so all you have been doing is speaking rom whatever.
BigRick778 4 years ago
1 question Do you pray in church or over your food before you eat or do take your plate to your closet pray there and eat there duh
JPETERS3492 3 years ago
Your statement is irrelevant to the disucussion that I was involved in.
BigRick777 3 years ago
Since God know my thoughts I will no longer pray out loud since He can just read my mind right?
postrero510 4 years ago
Isa. 9:6 means what it says....plain and simple. He is God, the everlasting Father,
SkylineCoyote 2 years ago
you do realize that the kjv wasn't the original text?
chriscox1121 2 years ago
Yes, Sir, I know that.
I did not mention KJV.
We have many translations these days,
and probably some mistranslations too.
SkylineCoyote 2 years ago
sounds like they are both saying the same thing to me lol and its obvious one runs the debate more than the other i find it hillarious both saying the same thing just different ways hahahahahaha
bigmamanc76 4 years ago
the bottom line is, is that scritpure teaches the Trinity hands down. Go into John, Jesus hints His oneness with the Father all over the place. If you have seen me you have seen the One who has sent Me. And as far as tongues go, read 1 Corinthians 12. Paul bashes the people for speaking in a tongue that has ZERO significance. Tongues was meant to edify the church. Not for pointless jibber jaber.
deathbykick 4 years ago
Tongues can also be for the edification of ones self.
postrero510 4 years ago
Why doesn't he lose that silly rug on his head.
tkatschuk 4 years ago
Thats too much tkatschuk! I thought I was the only one who noticed that...
postrero510 4 years ago
Well, I guess the question is..How many thrones will you see in Heaven? I will only see one...cuz theres one God..and if I pray to them seperatly, why can't I just pray to them one..if the three are the same..why Can't I call Jesus the Father..and Jesus the HS and the Father the Holy Spirit?! if theres one God? you can call it trinity or oneness..if you believe in ONe..thats the important thing
superschwerkraft 4 years ago
I have the entire debate and may eventually post it here or at Godtube under the same Title and same screename.
SKYSPLASH 4 years ago
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Here, God the Father calls Jesus God and says He has a throne. If the Father has a throne and the Son has a throne . . . how many thrones is that? 1 plus 1 is 2.
pastorlevi 4 years ago
Mt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 12 thrones plus 1 throne = 13 thrones.
pastorlevi 4 years ago
Re 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. These 3 verses combined give us 14 thrones and 24 seats.
pastorlevi 4 years ago
Ac 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. How many is that?
pastorlevi 4 years ago
no no no, Father son Holy spirit are titles..like a person can be a father,son, and a friend..theres distinction in their roles but not in the person. When the bible talks about the Son its talking about the Incarnation, When God came to earth as a Human to clean us, thus now he can pour out his Spirit on us. Before the cross humans were dirty and God couldnt touch us lest we die..
superschwerkraft 4 years ago
Oh, thanks for the clarification. So Stephen saw one title standing beside another title after the incarnation? That makes a lot of sense.
pastorlevi 4 years ago
Trinity makes no sense, you say they are all equal yet why do they need to ask permission to each other for things, and when one repents who do ask for forgiveness? the Father? THe Son Holy Spirit? WHO?? its true God has manifested himself in three forms, but that doesnt necessaraly make it three persons, its God in three forms..not Three persons in one God..
superschwerkraft 4 years ago
Please, show us where someone asked someone for permission. You think the Trinity doesn't make sense, but it makes since that Jesus talks to Himself, prays to Himself, sends Himself, is afraid He has forsaken Himself, came from Himself, must go away in order to come back, stands beside Himself, etc., etc. That makes since? Come on, give me a break.
pastorlevi 4 years ago
First of all sense is the word not since. Jesus did not pray to himself! He prayed to the FATHER and yes he was man. Understanding Jesus in his humanity and deity is where Trinity believers stumble alot. When you see Son of Man think humanity and when you see Son of God think deity. And no don't quote Daniel 7 please....the interpreation of it is the church. Out of Egypt I called my son is a great example to study as it has dual connotation.
postrero510 4 years ago
Neither does three Gods make sense.
The Bible plainly says there is One God.
Remember Jesus was God manifested in the flesh(Son), and God is Spirit, St. Johh 4:24
SkylineCoyote 2 years ago
No True Christian that believes in the Trinity believes in three Gods as you say. As far as I know, only the Mormons believe in 3 God trinity.
God exist as three persons, Jehova the Father, Jehova the Son, and Jehova the Holy Spirit.
DictatorStatus 2 years ago
And by the way - verse 55 gave us His name, not title. Furthermore, dd it ever occur to you that you should look up the def. for the word "name"? It means - a word or words by which someone or something is known, addressed, or referred to. In Christendom, there's no doubt as to Who is being referred to when we say THE Father, THE Son, THE H.G. They are names.
pastorlevi 4 years ago
so you are telling me that God (the Father) has a hand? when the bible clearly says that God is a Spirit and cannot be seen? what about when they say God has the whole world in his hand..does he literally have it or does it mean he controls it? see Jesus ( God in the flesh) was the simbol for Salvation.
superschwerkraft 4 years ago
Show me in the Bible where a spirit cannot have a hand. Did not the Bible call angels ministering spirits? Do they have hands? He created the heavens and earth with the span of His hand. The Oneness doctrine is the craziest doctrine I know of. Man, what difficulties you have explaining away Scripture. I just take it for what it says.
pastorlevi 4 years ago
Deut. 6:4
SkylineCoyote 2 years ago
No, believing in One God is not crazy, either you worship the One true God, or you do not. Deut. 6:4 among other scriptures. Read the scriptures/The Holy Bible.
SkylineCoyote 2 years ago
It seems that antropomorphism is taken literal by some and soon they will think that when God created the water by the blast of his nostrils that God literally blew his nose on earth. And that under his feathers we are safe means God is a fowl? God is spirit and you are right my friend!
postrero510 4 years ago
I will love to hear what brother Urshan had to say!! Why is he not allow to speak?
granjuice 4 years ago
Im getting cable and will download the whole debate. Dsl is to slow for youtube.
SKYSPLASH 4 years ago
Brother Urshan was a man of God.
Believe he has passed away now.
As for speaking, many times the three God folks prefer to argue, and apparently occupied the talks more. The debate should be even divided, fair and balanced.
SkylineCoyote 2 years ago
1 x 1 x 1 = 1
God is one being consisting of three different persons
DictatorStatus 2 years ago
Walter Martin really know his stuff.
NoneBeforeNoneAfter 4 years ago
Well I can honestly say I'm a pentecostal and no we aren't a cult. I believe in God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. The bible says there are three that bare record in heaven father, son and holy spirit, and these three are one. I am a sister, a daughter, and a friend, but my name is Jessica. God is the father and God is the son and Gos is the Holy Ghost and his name is Jesus.
braziliandreamer03 4 years ago
This Video is in refrence to an Occult offshoot of the pentecostal church. Clearly Pentecostals are not a cult and do believe in the concept of the Trinity Im sure if you Google you will see the differences. I have friends in the Pentecostal church who have nothing to do with the United Pentecostals.
SKYSPLASH 4 years ago
Interesting enough, the United Pentecostal Church is not the only church that believes in One God.
So does the BibleWay churches, Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ, Pentecostal Assembies of Jesus Christ, and others... Yes, some Pentecostals still believe in the Roman Catholic doctrine of the Trinity.
SkylineCoyote 2 years ago
all of christianity believes in one God. Christianity doesn't exist outside of monotheism. You might want to check your sources on "roman catholic doctrine of trinity" almost all pentecostals believe in the doctrine of the trinity. It was the Assemblies of God that kicked out oneness teachers and told them they were teaching false doctrince and that they were a cult. not sure you understand what your saying
chriscox1121 2 years ago
This not surprising, I use to be in Trinity pentecostal church, but when I switched to the One God pentecostal church, some(not all) of the three God folks(Trinity) got so upset they didn't want to speak. Oh my, is that loving your neighbor as Christ said for us to do? Disbelief in a doctrine is one thing, but not loving your neighbor (anyone) is something else. The church world needs to follow the Ten Commandments.
SkylineCoyote 2 years ago
who was Jesus talking too when he said on the cross my God my God why have you forsaken me?
DictatorStatus 2 years ago
why do pentecostals use vain babblings when on the day of Pentecost the 'tongues' were KNOWN languages? not unintelligible babblings
filoIII 4 years ago
Indeed I will tell you why. Notice very carefully what they are saying . In most Instances its the same Phrase repeated over and over again. A familiar practice of Pagans to cause a False spiritual Experience. Much as the Catholics Gregorian Chants. Jesus said DO NOT PRAY IN VAIN REPITITIONS.
SKYSPLASH 4 years ago
i have a question for you do you know every language in the world.I live in south texas and go and minister in mexico all the time. There was a time when we were ministering in mexico that the Holy Ghost fell and some hispanics who did not know how to speak, read write any english began to speak perfect english. Just because it may sound like jibberish to you it does not meran it sounds like jibberish to all
JPETERS3492 3 years ago
you'll have to show me my comment.
filoIII 3 years ago
oops, the Holy Bible says that there is three that bare record in heaven,,,,Father, Word, and Holy Spirit, also see John 1:1
Can't see nothing here but One God.
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three manifestations of the One God, not three Gods.
SkylineCoyote 2 years ago
Splash;
"You give freely cheerfully not out of compulsion or a Law man made or pre existing."
Yep, the Tax Laws are terrible - but what can you do?
jehovahuponyou 4 years ago
Lift up Jesus Christ Crucified walk our faith by his Grace that he gives us.
SKYSPLASH 4 years ago
Mankind also thinks they can make God Save them by some tears and a sinner's Prayer(what ever that is).
God is Sovereign! Sovereign especially to who and who will not be Saved! God will have Mercy on whom God will; Rom. 9:15, 16.
jehovahuponyou 4 years ago
Hmmm.......
jehovahuponyou 4 years ago
Yup Grace is First then Faith. Jesus is author of our faith Hebrews 11. I will not hold to a form of Godliness ( Try to add to the work at the Cross) But denying its Power (or Deny that Jesus DID IT ALL Totalisti PAID IN FULL !
SKYSPLASH 4 years ago
Splash,
Even our Faith is a gift - we have no 'my faith' - ALL boasting is precluded by the LORD - because our Salvation rests upon Him and His Finished Works. (I know you know this, just a reminder)
Those who Preach/Teach anything apart from or added to the Grace God for Salvation teach another Gospel - they are accursed - Gal. 1:6-9.
jehovahuponyou 4 years ago
Im fully aware of Galatians a book so many need to read again and again sadly many have tuned to another Gospel Another Jesus. And have added so much. I recently did a study on Tithing it made me sick to my stomach and caused much discourse with many brothers. I Disagree with Tithing. You give freely cheerfully not out of compulsion or a Law man made or pre existing.
SKYSPLASH 4 years ago
The Debate was so unfair in the side of the United Pentecostal Church.The late Dr. Walter Martin together with his cohorts monopolized the discussion.
Conclusion: they are so unfair
sendingpath 4 years ago
Such an unfair debate! God help us to be considerate of others and not so one sides that our belife has to be the only way but I do agree with the UPC and it is not a cult
goodsons2 4 years ago
This is only a portion of the Debate. The true sadness is that United Pentecostals can boast that they speak in tongues and that they were all completely bapitized(submerged under water) But Like the Thief on the cross I stand with nothing to Boast in Except Jesus by his Grace and My faith In Him. Eph2 8,9
SKYSPLASH 4 years ago
read....Acts 2:38
SkylineCoyote 2 years ago