just as there is an ecosystem where different plants,animals, and there activities are all interdependent on each other, so there is an "econo-system" where buyers and sellers of different commodities are inter related. If someone said "deer are cute,so lets mow all the grass where the bunnies live, and give it to the deer" peta would have a cow. but that is exactly what socialism does. moves commodities to an "un - natural" place in the economy.
@88roro11 That would require bombing Europe into oblivion, crushing Japan, Communism ruining the Soviet economy, and China to quit expanding free markets like during WWII.
@llcoolray3000 or just end free market trading on like 90% of goods... i wouldn't like to see another world war.. but what you said is a solution (not the most humane)...
LOL just who do you yankees think you are? You have lost economic power to the rest of the world. You are not getting it back, especially not with economic illiterates like Obama and Pelosi at the top. US is done, finished, game over.
@TWSceptic If we "Yankees" closed our borders, the rest of the world would be worse off. Unless, you in the rest of the world found a way to re-route the Internet, considering the bulk of the Internet is actually in the US. Good luck doing your banking without the US. Good luck buying PC parts in the first place. Good luck with getting all of that fuel refined as well.
@Joe11Blue Dream on. The US economy isn't what it used to be, it's mostly consumption of Chinese goods these days. I use very little American made stuff if any. Obviously internet doesn't just stop with the US neither does banking or anything else. You actually think PC parts are made in the US LOL. Wake up everything is produced outside US. You have a service and consumption based economy nothing more. But it's funny because it shows how you people think about the rest of the world.
@TWSceptic The US Economy was driven by you buying American made toothbrushes. It was made by having Heavy Industry, which is you actually paid attention Heavy Industry is moving back into the US. Mainly they are moving to Right to Work states where the Unions do not have a stranglehold on their wages.
@Joe11Blue WAS, in other words not anymore. The US is now the greatest debtor nation of the world, where is used to be the greatest creditor nation. And it's not just unions you need to blame. The American people have voted for those who have basically destroyed the US economy in the last decades. I never said the US wasn't the economic powerhouse of the world in the 20th century, especially the first half. Your protectionist ideas are not the solution and never will be.
@TWSceptic I agree the debt is an issue, but they will solve itself when the credit market finally pops. There can be no recovery until that happens.
I'm not blaming the Unions for anything. I was just pointing out the reasoning for those manufacturers moving back into the US.I'm hardly protectionist, considering I'm an Anarchist that's sort of funny.
@TWSceptic Also to add, I live 10 miles away from the plant where Intel makes it's CPU cores. I live in Arizona. AMD makes most of it's stuff up in Northern New York, I know because I lived about 20 miles away from that plant as well. Are you noticing a trend here? You people? I'm an Engineer that has worked in more countries that you can probably name.
@Joe11Blue Well it's true that a lot of the cpu's are still made in the US since it requires specific knowledge typical for a post-industrial service based economy. The problem is that US is losing ground every year, producing less and creating a bigger trade deficit because of lacking production and jobs.
But you don't have to believe me, soon enough this problem will become undeniable for everyone. I'm also pretty sure I can beat that statement LOL.
@TWSceptic It's not just knowledge required to build CPU's, you need competence and the scientific base to surround it. The amount of research that goes into the the next gen chips grows exponentially with each new one.
I never denied the US was losing ground, I said that you were wrong saying that nothing is made here, and took issue with you saying the US is done. That statement is ignoring the history of this country. The US is filled with talent, and it always can come back..
@TWSceptic Essentially, what I am trying to say is that you shouldn't count the US out of anything. The people are still very vibrant and determined. The people just need to fix the mess that the last generation let get out of hand in D.C. first. Let the people straighten that shithole out, and everything else will come together again just like it did after WW2.
The republicans have been against Soc Sec since FDR passed in 1934(or what year it was started). There is no reason the US cannot have soc sec / medicare/ healthcare. The dems spend too much and the rep don't care about the poor. So they are both wrong and we wonder why we are in such a mess.
Who was that guy talking about eating peas? *shrug* he probably hated TARP, cash for clunkers, obamacare, all that jazz about chinese rubber and all that other stuff no one had to eat peas on. *shrug shrug*
There is no reason to cut soc sec / medicare...we spend so much on other things like wars, defense company, etc. They are all sellouts (except a few). We no longer have a congress / WH only a nobility and a czar in his cozy royal palace.
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The Republicans ALREADY destroyed the economy. Obama can only do so much. The Tea Party wants to ruin this country and grab their guns and their Bibles and go on a hunt!
@LaReinaDelBarrio spending under the BO administration more than doubled that of W's. In just 2 yrs in Office, BO spent over 10 mil, more than the total in W's two terms in office. Oh yeah and we're still in Iraq & Afghanistan, Gitmo hasnt closed as promised. Clinton may have stimulated the economy but then he had banks approve loans to people wanting to buy homes they could not possibly afford to meet the monthly payments. That is just one reason why were in this economic mess
@QuoEstVeritasEh Well you stupid Republican, it looks like poor people and black people and gay people will be paying for the mess YOU put us in, while you sit there in your hetero mess and rape your own kids. I hope someone sets fire to you.
@LaReinaDelBarrio i must come to the republicans defense here at least he stated facts and figures in his argument you did no such thing you you just say stuff and say yeah in the future everyone gonna pay wheres your numbers and facts and figures. not to mention the federal debt is right now as it is almost Obama's fault alone there was only billions of dollars worth of debt before he came in office and in a short few years he barrowed a total of 12-14 trillion dollars from china and other
@Shane6 The Republicans were willing to destroy America's credit rating unless Obama allowed them to make all poor people pay their way. I hope someone strings all of those Republicans up from a tree branch.
@LaReinaDelBarrio The idea is not to tax the poor and give tax breaks to the rich. it is equal taxes for all not to mention the rich provide products and jobs if you raise taxes on them they ain't going to just say oh well u got me they'll just raise their prices a little maybe lower wages. plus you can't just persecute the political minority it doesn't matter if someones political view are indeed wrong you can persuade them but they still deserve a say the U.S is based on popular sovereignty...
@LaReinaDelBarrio the belief in a county's people being governed by the people or basically the majority but every still can vote or have a say (although right now sometimes not true) but that's the basic principle so even you think that someones views are wrong that doesn't mean they deserve to hang because everyone is affected by laws and bills passed so everyone deserves the say.
@Shane6 California had a say and history will judge it for using the Constitution to take gay people's rights away. That's how Nazi Germany started. I bet you have a swastika tattoed on your ass.
Obama and the left are full of crap. They could of raised the ceiling back when they held the W.H. and both houses of congress. Did they do it NO WHY? as usual Obama didn't want his hands to get dirty so why not push it on to the Republicans. With a media so willing to protect Obama it is an easy thing to do. Say what you want about the tea party but is is the left that was ready to play politics with the American people and the economy. I dont think they counted on the tea party. Surprise!
@Shane6 As much as Obama has raised our debt, he did not do it alone. When he took office the debt was already 10 trillion dollars.. Bush Jr racked it up 5 trillion, all presidents before him combined racked up 5 trillion.
Funny that, in 2006, Senator Obama said ever raising the debt ceiling was a big mistake that would weaken America domestically and internationally. Today he's begging Congress to do so. What exactly has changed in 5 years that has suddenly made raising the debt ceiling vital to our survival?
@NoshRunner - That's what everyone said in 1990; and it's the only reason George Bush Sr. agreed to raise taxes. However, the spending cuts NEVER materialized; in fact, Congress increased spending. See, Republicans in Congress have been around for decades, and they've heard these promises before. They're simply following the adage "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice..." and are not going to be fooled twice. I applaud them for their fortitude.
@DarthCormac But what happened when taxes were raised under Clinton/Reagan/Hw bush? Jobs were created. Not lost. Thats why I find it hilarious when republicans say that tax increases will ruin this country, when in fact, under clinton over 10 million jobs were created, yet when bush cut taxes in 2001, he created ZERO jobs according to the Department of labour.
Tweet #fuckyouwashington for a twitter revolution that goes beyond right/left,black/white,middle-class/working-class,new citizen/old blood.
Time to put the fear of God-& not getting elected/having a career into every Reps,Senators,Democrats,Republicans,Bureaucrats,Governors,Mayors,etc hearts. We only have democracy when they are scared they will be voted out and the ore party won't be voted in...
The American people want to go to the poles with 4 choices to solve the debt ceiling issue as they are supposable arguing over what we want. For the first time, figure out what the American people really want with transparency and change politics in Washington over night.
1. Rebublican plan 2. Democratic Plan 3. Raise taxes to old levels / close loop holes 4. none of the above. When are we going to go back to what the people want. Our founding fathers would be a appalled.
So we are to send a message to the world that we may not pay our bills? What could possibly go wrong.
All of the people who fought and died for this country and you want to attempt a "do-over"? Do you really think you have foreseen the extent of the possible consequences? Don't expect the U.S. to come out the other side like anything you are familiar with.
@earthpet funny, that's what they told us before tarp, the bank bailouts, the patriot act, and the war in iraq. nice try.
besides, we can pay our DEBT bills, though we might have to cut back on a lot of the "entitlement" largess which is the principle cause of our current fiscal mess.
the demacrats and republicans are like 2 dead trees leaning on each other and neither will fall. We have the neocons who boated the govt under bush and the liberal goons who can't even spell the word cut. Neither party will cut enough fat to save us now. The bastard in the oval office is a useless idiot to the globalists. They know the only way to keep him in is to use the debt limit to rub some of the economy damage off on the republicans.spend spend spend blame it on the rich.
I suggest we hold Mr. Obama to a promise he broke (one of many) when he was running for President - have this debate broadcast on C-SPAN, so that the American people can see what is involved and can see what facts/truth are being presented and where those facts/truth are coming from.
Let's stop with the easy verbal attacks being made by our all-knowing representatives in Washington, DC - claims that they don't have to back up.
Everyone: Don't LISTEN to what politicians say !!!
@thesparitan How so? Can you list what philosophy in life you go by? Just because you never thought about how people should live amongst each other in this planet doesn't mean that classic liberals who have are psychopaths. Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. You are using your small mind. Can you use your great mind?
@thesparitan Also what is money and why do we use money? Can we all become wealthy by just running paper money off of a printing press all day long? What gives a nation wealth? or asked differently; What gives a nation's money value? Is it ok for people to steal the property of other people? What is the proper role of government? Does society even need government at all? Can any man be trusted with limitless power? If you can't answer these questions it is you sir who is an ignorant psychopath.
@residentzombie save your breath, his self righteous indignation outweighs his capacity for critical thought.
"Groupthink" has enveloped his mind and he has no doubt lumped everyone who liked this video in with right wing neo Palin biblical fundamentalist wallmart shopping 4x4 gas guzzlers.
The statists create programs that lure large numbers of citizens into dependence on government handouts. Then when the government runs out of money funding those redistribution schemes, they threaten to cut funds to those dependants. They depend on those dependants to squeal and secure the pressure that allows the politicians to get more funding through debt for even more programs to collect more dependants. The cycle repeats itself over and over until insolvency.
Congress consistently brings the Government to the edge of default before facing its responsibility. This brinkmanship threatens the holders of government bonds and those who rely on Social Security and veterans benefits. Interest rates would skyrocket, instability would occur in financial markets, and the Federal deficit would soar.
The United States has a special responsibility to itself and the world to meet its obligations.
@goog2k Calm down you silly bugger. If you will look you will see that your post just happened to be at the top of a pollution string of no less than 10 consecutive musings of jopealler34 - all just more rehashes of he same old stuff and if you will look at my comment time - it was 4am. I meant for my comment to be directed at him - not you.
I would apologize, but after your hysterical rant I don't think you're worth it.
Why Are Stabilizations Delayed 2.0 - and how the current debt crisis may be the End Game
Apparently, the fight over raising the debt ceiling, the debt, taxes and spending cuts is not just nothing new, it's actually a thing they call an "Economic Stabilization War of Attrition" which even has mathematical principles behind it where you can predict how long it will go on, which side will win, and what the outcome will be based on ...
Typical leftist ivory tower elitist convoluted argument against simple common sense. The best answer is usually the simplest. We do not have a tax problem that the Progressives would solve by raising taxes but the Laffer curves proves that income would go down so their next solution is to print more money but that will cause inflation. Here is a novel idea cut spending I know it is to simple and it is what most households do to avoid bankruptcy.
@megarational Sorry but the increased tax rate does not necessarily increase revenue. As there becomes a point when tax evasion becomes economically viable. I know many who will not work overtime cause it raises ones rate and is just not worth it. I know many wealthy that are only making a a 4% on their investments increase the tax rate and they will move their assets to somewhere with a lower tax rate. BTW Keynesian economics has been repeatedly proven wrong!
@dsmith6289 1; b) Prob's w/ the Laffer curve today:
1. The rich hire armies of accountants, tax specialists, & lawyers to minimize their taxes regardless of the rates. It’s fear of criminal prosecution, not tax rates, that prevent them from going even further to minimize taxes.
2. Laffer doesn't argue that all tax increases lead to lower rev, only tax increases above the curve “peak”. We are far below that peak. Top marginal rates are at historical lows.
@megarational Depends what you mean by Historic lows. Top marginal rates in the 20s were 25%, And from 1987 to 1992 where below todays rates. :-) Sorry to jump in on someone else's discussion. :-) I agree Laffer isn't 'hard science', There is some empirical evidence but it's noisy. But that means the reverse isn't true too.. raising rates won't guarantee tax increases.
@dmg46664 Historical lows by overall average, if that helps you.
Raising top marginal rates definitely won't guarantee tax revenue increases if the gov't keeps allowing tax loopholes for the rich, and definitely won't guarantee more revenue if if Paul Ryan & the Rep's get their way and reduce tax rates on dividends and capital gains to ZERO.
@megarational We could get rid of the income tax altogether. If we had a constitutionally sized fed. govt. we could fund it with user fees, lotteries, and perhaps a few consumption taxes. Production taxes are a very foolish was to tax.
Also, no matter what the tax rate has been for the last 60 years, the govt. usually collected about tax revenues that represented about 18% of GDP. So, either people don't pay the full rates, or there is a point of diminishing returns with tax rates.
@joepeeler34 Fed gas tax, property tax, telephone tax, electricity tax, internet tax, heating oil tax, sporting event taxes, licensees, fines, fees levies, tolls, "sin taxes eg on alcohol & tobacco + more'n 100 other taxes which are all regressive - meaning the lower & mid inc groups pay a higher % of inc on the taxes than the rich.
What the Rep's don't tell you is tax cuts for the rich leads to making up the lost revenue with increases in all those other types of tax.
@megarational Why not reduce the size of the govt.? Then we don't need all of those taxes. The working poor pay and middle class pay a higher percentage of their disposable cash. Well, whose fault is that? I don't think the govt. should be in the business of punishing the wealthy. Most of them didn't get there by fraud.
@joepeeler34 No one of either party is against "reducing the size of gov't" in principle. The problem is that the GOP predictably use that rhetoric to attack anything that prevents their corporate sponsors from engaging in unethical practices for the sake of profits. The problem is that the GOP use that rhetoric to attack any programs that help the middle & lower class, as opposed to benefiting the rich and the corporations.
@megarational - You think Democrats don't have corporate sponsors? You think Democrats don't engage in crony capitalism? You think they don't love picking winners and losers and funneling billions to corporations who then in turn fund them?
They just passed a health care bill that requires healthy people to buy insurance. You think insurers don't love that. You think accountants and lawyers don't love the stacks of new legislation that the Democrats have been passing?
@megarational Why do you think that it is just the R's that engage in corporatism. In 2006 and 2008 the D's got slightly over 60% of corporate PAC money. They get the govt. union money as well. Even in 2010 they got just over 52% of the corporate PAC money.
The problem is that the left created a partnership between business and govt. during the Progressive and New Deal eras. Both parties have played around the edges of this system ever since. Corporatism is a kind of central planning.
@megarational - Yep, we are as a nation, over-taxed, by a government that cannot stop spending on things it just does not need.
We are defending wealthy countries with their own armies. We are wasting billions on duplicate programs. We are spending billions on social engineering.
We have a far too complicated tax code that wastes even more of our money on accounts and the IRS.
@megarational "Historic lows" For most of our country's history there was no income tax at all. When it was ushered in it was only a few percentage points for a few thousand individuals. The "progressives" in the R and D parties at the time promised that this tax would never hit the vast majority of Americans.
Also, consider that no matter what the tax rates have been tax revenues as a percentage of gdp have never gone too much higher or lower than 18%. Reason: Point of diminishing returns.
@dsmith6289 Also, your contention that "progressives would solve the debt problem by raising taxes" is just one more Republican lie. Obama and the Dems have consistently held that ending the tax cuts for the rich and closing tax loopholes for the rich and the corporations are only a small part of the overall BALANCED approach to solving the debt problem.
The sleazy Rep corp whores, by contrast, use any talking point they think their idiot followers will fall for to protect those tax loopholes.
@megarational How do we define "rich." Will higher tax rates affect behavior, investment, risk aversion, etc.? I think so.
It's "balanced," huh? That's Washington-speak for we want to confiscate more taxes to pay off interest factions feeding at the trough as part of a corrupt political patronage system. The govt. has a spending problem, not a revenue problem.
Want to punish those who make more than you? Easy--well-off seniors no longer get S.S. or access to Medicare. End corporate welfare.
@joepeeler34 "..pay off interest factions feeding at the trough.." You mean like the wealthy and profitable big oil corporations that get taxpayer subsidies, with the GOP corporate whores protecting those subsidies?
@megarational I am opposed to all corporate subsidies. However, tax breaks aren't a subsidy. A subsidy is writes a check to a business or individual. Taking less than they otherwise would isn't a subsidy. My only concern there is that large firms oftentimes are able to game the tax and regulatory system where smaller firms don't have the resources to do it. If tax breaks are put in place then they should be equitable.
@megarational I am opposed to all subisidies. Can you say the same? What about farm subsidies? Those dwarf the subsidies to oil companies. What about subsidies for energy companies that the left approves us? What about public-private partnerships the left approves of?
It seems that the left loves corporatism so long as it is for so-called progressive ends. In that event it isn't even properly identified as corporatism. It is just called enlightened planning and good government.
@joepeeler34 Quit polluting my in basket with your ceaseless regurgitation of the same topics dealt with already in this thread. I already told you there was more than enough info on this thread for anyone to form and opinion.
@joepeeler34 Let's for arguments sake, say a 50% top marginal rate on those making more than 5 million a year. Remember it's top marginal rate, they still pay the lower rates on that portion of their income below the 5 M. A 50% marginal rate, even if there were no loopholes & they paid that top rate, would mean their take home income would be $2.5 M. Are you saying one could simply not be motivated by a paltry $2.5M?
@megarational I am saying that you or I don't have a right to other people's money.
I am also concerned that the govt. makes political decisions and not economic decisions. I want govt. deciding value on as few as resources as possible.
When a businessman misuses labor and material resources he is punished with losses. The harmful social acitivity soon stops for lack of capital.
The govt. has no profit/loss feedback mechanism. The harmful activity goes on and on.
@megarational Further, you are assuming that higher rates of taxation have no effect on wealth creation, investment, motivation, risk aversion, etc. It most certainly does.
Govt. lacks mechanisms to sort. It has no way of knowing whether it is combining land, labor, and capital efficiently to meet consumer preferences. It only results in a political patronage system and misallocation of capital and labor resources.
Leftists seem to think that wealth creation just happends. Nope.
@joepeeler34 And if you tax the rich more, it means you can tax the lower and middle class less. According to your argument that would give more incentive to the middle and lower class, and there are a lot more of them than they are of the rich.
@megarational Not if you cut spending. You are assuming that spending levels must remain the same. I want massive spending cuts. Tax cuts can come later. We need a simplified tax code and an elimination of all production taxes. If you tax something, you get less of it all else being equal. If that simple principle is understood, production taxes are a nuclear-grade stupid way to tax.
I am not interested in a tax code that seeks to punish some and reward others. Look where that has gotten us.
@megarational Our % of GDP going to the government is rapidly becoming unsustainable. We have the highest corporate rate and we have the most progressive tax rate amongst the developed nations. the top 105 pay 90% of the tax burden while the bottom 50% pay no income tax at all! The rich already pay more then their fair share. I agree regarding tax loopholes being closed and ending corporate welfare. A balanced approach would be to scrap all the unfunded partisan Obama government programs!
@dsmith6289 The offical corp tax rates are meaningless, because no corporation pays them. Thanks to loopholes, the effective corporate rates are far lower.
Best example: GE in 2010 made billions in profits both domestically and abroad - yet they not only paid no income tax but actually got a tax credit.
@dsmith6289 The portion of the total taxes paid by those at the top end is always a favorite Rep talking point.
Yet they NEVER talk about the comparison of the taxes they pay to the portion of total wealth they hold, because that comparison does not support their agenda.
@megarational A lie is tell people that 80% support tax hikes when no such poll supports that statement, ramming trillions of unfunded partisan spending then expecting that the other side to fund it then calling that balanced or asking the 10% of the population paying 90% of the tax burden while the bottom 50% pay no income tax while saying they need to pay even more then they all ready do. We all ready have the one of the most progressive tax rates along in the industrialized world.
@megarational Was this aimed at me? You need to reply to me to make sure I get it :) I don't deny the Democratic/Obama nor Republican rhetoric. But I think it's only Rhetoric. Volker didn't manage to reign inflation through interest rate rises because he was under a Republican watch! No sir. He did it because it was a political FORCED after the stagflation of the 70s. You need the pressure of tax cuts to force cuts in spending. These are all politicians.
@dmg46664 No one is against lower taxes. However, not with borrowed money, and not when the tax cuts overwhelmingly benefit those at the very highest incomes.
@megarational Agreed, but one can't get an income tax cut if one pays no income taxes, right? If one gave eveyone an equitable 1% tax reduction, the wealth would "benefit" more because that 1% number would represent far more dollars.
The problem is that we have an income tax at all. It is used to support a corrupt political patronage system. Skillful demagogues then use it as part of their arsenal of class warfare rhetoric.
Further, I never said that I denied that Obama may do some cutting. As a rule I semi-believe what politicians claim in the short term. 2 years out less so. 5 years out... not at all. The point being is that after taxes would be raised, and the books come closer to be balanced, it's an argument for politicians (Republican or Democrat) later to spend even more. It's what they're good at.
@dmg46664 Good grief. To justify it's insanity the GOP contrives whatever spin it thinks will work on it's idiot followers. Then their propaganda arm (Fox) repeats that spin endlessly. Then the idiots like you get on youtube and regurgitate everything they say almost word for word. .
According to your insane logic (ie: coincidentally the same spin the GOP has been using) you shouldn't cut spending either, because if that reduced the deficit - it would be an incentive to spend more
Unfortunately, I think that's true! When Jefferson said "It's the natural order of things for Government to gain and Liberty to yield". That's what he meant. So if tax cuts of any form are on the table (Save the amount necessary to perform basic functions), you have to take it. Because 9/10 there will be growth in spending. tinyurl(.)com/3u9wwfg shows Milton Friedman talking about this in 1980! Long before Fox news. He was critical of the Republican's support of special interest steal industry.
@dmg46664 You said "If you assume that you aren't going to cut spending then you have to raise taxes". Then went into a song and dance with that premise.
Your whole comment was worse than pointless because "NO ONE SUGGESTED THAT SPENDING CUTS WOULD NOT BE PART OF THE PROCESS TO GET RID OF THE DEFICIT".
@megarational Can you name the specific tax cuts proposed. The D's have their own propaganda arms in the rest of the mainstream media. Pointing out that news outlets are biased isn't an argument.
Obama claimed not too long ago that govt. spending was stimulus. Now he says govt. spending cuts are necessary. Doesn't he implicitly concede that govt. spending is an albatross given that he is now calling for spending cuts (no specifics though) as a cure? He can't have it both ways. Neither can you.
@joepeeler34 "Obama claimed that spending was stimulus". Yes, it is. Spending creates demand and that stimulates production and jobs.
"Now he says that spending cuts are necessary". He is saying that spending cuts are a necessary part of long term solution to the debt. However, he still recognizes that drastic and sudden reductions in spending when the economy is weak cans send us into a worse recession, because spending is stimulus and cutting it suddenly is the opposite of a stimulus.
@megarational Spending is the product of wealth creation--not the cause.
Wealth creation starts with underconsumption--savings--which is used to finance capital investment. That investment leads to productivity and production gains. Purchasing power increases and the spending takes care of itself.
Japan did the same thing and has mountains of debt and a 20 year depression to show for it.
Excessive consumption spending driven by debt is a big part of the problem.
Good video. Makes sense. Obama instilling fear into the older populace saying he could not guarantee their Social Security checks would arrive on time, is deplorable. Imagine, a president of the US saying such a thing.
Obama's cute little imperatives are insults with a strong fart of "I'm your Daddy. Do as I say." Pull off your own Band-Aid: look what's been festering under there! Eat your own fucking peas, dickwad! But don't eat mine and everyone else's: we've spent our lives paying for them and now all we want to do is merely survive.
They've never been on your table.
I hope Kucinich goes Joe Pesci on your ass with that little copy of the Constitution he keeps in his jacket pocket.
Reason wants *open borders* and they currently support immigration by any means possible. That leads to increased spending and more power for the free-spending far-left. It also contributes to the unemployment problem; Americans could be doing many of the jobs that illegal aliens currently do, and at a net financial benefit.
@NoMoreBlatherDotCom Dude, Reason magazine is a libertarian publication. They want to take an axe to the federal government. They don't believe in central planning, so they are are hostile to what the left is selling on most points. They aren't "left-wing." That's way off base.
Fire incumbents (sp) don't re-elect anyone! No matter the party!
(of course 3rd parties = better imho) I'm really not a conservative nor much of a libertarian (I am technically a libertarian) ... but people people people ... you give the government more money and they just waste it on crap and become abusive to us.
Oh please!!! Obama cutting spending??? That's why we're in this fucking mess to begin with he spent what we should have run the government on on his stupid fucking stimulus spending!
Look, Obama got his way (at our expense), he got to be the first black affirmative action president in American history, now it's time to fix everything this ignorant ghetto trash moron's fucked up and IMPEACH THAT BASTARD NOW ....before we're all eating at a fucking soup kitchen!!
Borrow, borrow and borrow some more to pay off and reward political cronies. Then hold a gun to the heads of everyone else to force them to pay the debt!
1) LUST -excessive love of others. 2) GLUTTONY - indulgence and over-consumption. 3) GREED - also known as avarice or covetousness. 4) SLOTH - laziness and indifference. 5) APATHY - despair. 6) WRATH - rage, anger, hate. 7) ENVY - hate of the "rich". 8) PRIDE - hubris, arrogance. 9) VALINGLORY - unjustified boasting.
These flaws in humanity are WHY Statism grows and WHY some wish to control others "for their own good”.
We have a $1.7 trillion annual deficit and the spending for ObamaCare does not even start until 2013. The annual deficit will skyrocket after that! Obama structured ObamaCare that way because he did not want voters to know how much ObamaCare will cost before the 2012 election. If Obama wants the debt ceiling raised, he has to agree to scrap ObamaCare. That is the first requirement. Nothing else can be negotiated until that is agreed upon!
@roncram Obamacare? It's modeled after Romney's system.
You idiots fight the only real improvements made in your h.c. system in many decades.
eg: Did you know that the h.c. reform bill mandates that insur. co's spend at least 80% to 85% of premium dollars on actual health care (as opposed to executive jets, lobbying & campaign contributions, advertising etc)?
Any wonder why the insurance corp's, their corp. lapdogs the GOP and the GOP's propaganda arm Faux News (aka GOP-TV) attack the reforms?
@megarational I am no fan of Romney. Romney's system has caused prices to skyrocket and health care quality to drop. BTW, there are several non-profit health insurance companies. If you don't like the profits health insurance companies make, then buy from a non-profit. I do.
1. following the introduction of Romeycare, premiums increased by up to 6% for employer sponsored premiums, up to a bare 1.5% for individuals.
2. There is no evidence that the quality of h.c. suffered. There is ev that the residents are buying better plans.
3. The best judges of the overall result is the people of Illinois. A new poll from Harvard School of Public Health and The Boston Globe “found that 63 %of Mass residents support the 2006 h. law, up 10 % points in the past 2 yrs..”
@roncram Romney is a phony. He doesn't want to address monetary issues like returning to gold and silver money, nor is he opposed to the Federal Reserve system. He believes in central planning. He's another establishment drone. He will be a disaster.
@megarational I don't want the government telling private organizations how they should operate, under any circumstances. I view this as immoral. My morality demands only freedom, yours demands I submit my will to others.
@Huboons The fucking insurance companies should not even be considered for basic health care. Health care is a necessity, not a commodity like flat screen TV's.
The single payer system is what would have reduced h.c. costs up to a massive 6% of GDP, but you ignorant assholes blew your chance, choosing instead to believe the propaganda fed to you endlessly by the insurance corporations, their corporate whores the GOP, and the GOP propaganda arm Faux Fiction (aka GOP-TV).
@megarational and yours is the freedom of government to fuck people over. Mine allows people to pick and choose who they deal with, yours allows no choice, and therefore really isn't freedom at all. I think the problem here is you confuse freedom with having no responsibility for your own actions. I know you want dear leader to hold you and make everything alright but the only person who can do that is you.
Obama campaigned as a moderate, then forced ObamaCare down our throats and gave away billions to his Democrat bankers on Wall Street. Republicans ran for Congress by promising to vote NO on any increase in taxes and NO on an increase in the debt limit. Obama deceived us. The 2010 election gave Congress a mandate to stop his agenda. That is what we are watching. The Senate is more likely to compromise, but not the House. Congress holds all the power. They control the purse strings.
@megarational Yes, health care reform was part of Obama's campaign, but it was just a slogan not a proposal. When Americans saw the actual proposal, they HATED it. Obama got it passed by unethical and possibly illegal means. ObamaCare will costs us trillions. Obama forced the CBO to come up with bogus numbers to make it look less expensive than it is, but the costs do not kick in until AFTER the 2012 election. Obama knows he would never get reelected if people knew how much ObamaCare costs.
@roncram Actually, when people were told the actual provisions of the h.c. bill they are in favor of it. What they are against is the perception of it portrayed by the insurance industry, the GOP corporate whores who are trying to bring Obama down for their own political purposes, and GOP-TV (Fox) - the propaganda arm of the GOP.
Obama, don't worry. You need Zionist Republicans take the baits to default everything they can. Otherwise, their supreme court under covered will cook some laws legalizing foreclosing White House to private Zionist corporations. Default should be interpreted as the population walking away from corporate America's cooking debts on them. Balance budgets are just Jewish impractical. Manipulated high unemployment will end soon after this. This would just default Republican wall sellers.
Default is what we need to stop our govt using our hard earned money on military and rely on Jewish language rating companies to spread lies used by Zionist corrupted corporations manipulating the entire population. But as I know, Zionist Republicans will use this opportunity to privatize public infrastructures and resources distribution for their political contributors behind the scene. They love to play shock doctrine. Be prepare for a labor union initiated protests to expose them on the spot.
this is dumb. geithner has staved off the ceiling so far by taking money out of federal pensions temporarily. aug 2 is when he can't do that.
secondly, the deficit is not a problem to be solved by next year. avg tax revenue is about 19% usually. past two years it has been near 14%. almost all the increase in spending is automatic from food stamps, unemployment insurance, etc.
deficit reduction immediately hurts the economy because there's no difference between a tax increase or a spending cut
@ZamolxisReborn 8000 jobs are being lost in florida because nasa is ending the shuttle missions. that's a cut in government spending. deficit reduction, either by higher taxes or lower spending, is contractionary. deficit expansion, either by lower taxes or higher spending, is expansionary. when the economy is in bad shape, govts are supposed to follow an expansionary policy. when the economy is growing fine, govts are supposed to have a contractionary policy.
@yohohobottleofrum John Maynard Keynes has been proven wrong for 60 years, dumbo.
.
gov. spending is inflationary, NOT expansionary.
economic growth and job creation happen when the gov. gets the hell out of the way.
.
.
ps: your fave, obama, is cutting the shuttle, so don't blame me, bud. but the shuttle is good because it improves US technology, NOT because it creates 8000 jobs in florida.
Debt is morphine: you may numb the pain but the reason for the pain doesn't magically disappear.
eleutheromaniac 2 hours ago
Problem is though, those TARP assets are probaly worth very little, I would even say worthless.
Finnbar01 3 days ago
just as there is an ecosystem where different plants,animals, and there activities are all interdependent on each other, so there is an "econo-system" where buyers and sellers of different commodities are inter related. If someone said "deer are cute,so lets mow all the grass where the bunnies live, and give it to the deer" peta would have a cow. but that is exactly what socialism does. moves commodities to an "un - natural" place in the economy.
halloranedward 3 weeks ago
three reasons why!!!!!!!!!!
thehivesbestking 3 months ago
we need to manufacture our way out of this problem like we did with the great depression.. end wto and bring jobs back from china.. end globalization
88roro11 6 months ago
@88roro11 Please watch "Free Trade and the Steel Industry" (watch?v=j0pl_FXt0eM) for a different point of view.
studentofsmith 2 months ago
@88roro11 That would require bombing Europe into oblivion, crushing Japan, Communism ruining the Soviet economy, and China to quit expanding free markets like during WWII.
llcoolray3000 1 month ago
@llcoolray3000 or just end free market trading on like 90% of goods... i wouldn't like to see another world war.. but what you said is a solution (not the most humane)...
88roro11 1 month ago
@88roro11 the world woundn't go into a world war for USA. not even if that happened.
kal9990 4 weeks ago
@kal9990 if we bombed iran possibly.. but the situation we were disusing earlier was a hypothetical one
88roro11 4 weeks ago
@88roro11 "end globalization"
LOL just who do you yankees think you are? You have lost economic power to the rest of the world. You are not getting it back, especially not with economic illiterates like Obama and Pelosi at the top. US is done, finished, game over.
TWSceptic 3 weeks ago
@TWSceptic If we "Yankees" closed our borders, the rest of the world would be worse off. Unless, you in the rest of the world found a way to re-route the Internet, considering the bulk of the Internet is actually in the US. Good luck doing your banking without the US. Good luck buying PC parts in the first place. Good luck with getting all of that fuel refined as well.
Joe11Blue 3 weeks ago
@Joe11Blue Dream on. The US economy isn't what it used to be, it's mostly consumption of Chinese goods these days. I use very little American made stuff if any. Obviously internet doesn't just stop with the US neither does banking or anything else. You actually think PC parts are made in the US LOL. Wake up everything is produced outside US. You have a service and consumption based economy nothing more. But it's funny because it shows how you people think about the rest of the world.
TWSceptic 3 weeks ago
@TWSceptic The US Economy was driven by you buying American made toothbrushes. It was made by having Heavy Industry, which is you actually paid attention Heavy Industry is moving back into the US. Mainly they are moving to Right to Work states where the Unions do not have a stranglehold on their wages.
Joe11Blue 2 weeks ago
@Joe11Blue WAS, in other words not anymore. The US is now the greatest debtor nation of the world, where is used to be the greatest creditor nation. And it's not just unions you need to blame. The American people have voted for those who have basically destroyed the US economy in the last decades. I never said the US wasn't the economic powerhouse of the world in the 20th century, especially the first half. Your protectionist ideas are not the solution and never will be.
TWSceptic 2 weeks ago
@TWSceptic I agree the debt is an issue, but they will solve itself when the credit market finally pops. There can be no recovery until that happens.
I'm not blaming the Unions for anything. I was just pointing out the reasoning for those manufacturers moving back into the US.I'm hardly protectionist, considering I'm an Anarchist that's sort of funny.
Joe11Blue 2 weeks ago
@TWSceptic Also to add, I live 10 miles away from the plant where Intel makes it's CPU cores. I live in Arizona. AMD makes most of it's stuff up in Northern New York, I know because I lived about 20 miles away from that plant as well. Are you noticing a trend here? You people? I'm an Engineer that has worked in more countries that you can probably name.
Joe11Blue 2 weeks ago
@Joe11Blue Well it's true that a lot of the cpu's are still made in the US since it requires specific knowledge typical for a post-industrial service based economy. The problem is that US is losing ground every year, producing less and creating a bigger trade deficit because of lacking production and jobs.
But you don't have to believe me, soon enough this problem will become undeniable for everyone. I'm also pretty sure I can beat that statement LOL.
TWSceptic 2 weeks ago
@TWSceptic It's not just knowledge required to build CPU's, you need competence and the scientific base to surround it. The amount of research that goes into the the next gen chips grows exponentially with each new one.
I never denied the US was losing ground, I said that you were wrong saying that nothing is made here, and took issue with you saying the US is done. That statement is ignoring the history of this country. The US is filled with talent, and it always can come back..
Joe11Blue 2 weeks ago
@TWSceptic Essentially, what I am trying to say is that you shouldn't count the US out of anything. The people are still very vibrant and determined. The people just need to fix the mess that the last generation let get out of hand in D.C. first. Let the people straighten that shithole out, and everything else will come together again just like it did after WW2.
Joe11Blue 2 weeks ago
The republicans have been against Soc Sec since FDR passed in 1934(or what year it was started). There is no reason the US cannot have soc sec / medicare/ healthcare. The dems spend too much and the rep don't care about the poor. So they are both wrong and we wonder why we are in such a mess.
tmmy773 6 months ago
Who was that guy talking about eating peas? *shrug* he probably hated TARP, cash for clunkers, obamacare, all that jazz about chinese rubber and all that other stuff no one had to eat peas on. *shrug shrug*
IfhBiff 7 months ago
Obama when in the senate under Bush called for the then debt ceiling, but when he's at top the story all of sudden changes, what a douch.
econogate 7 months ago
There is no reason to cut soc sec / medicare...we spend so much on other things like wars, defense company, etc. They are all sellouts (except a few). We no longer have a congress / WH only a nobility and a czar in his cozy royal palace.
tmmy773 7 months ago
@tmmy773 nobody's cutting soc security and medicare.
shotsky94 7 months ago
1% of the US population owns 99% of the wealth in this country. What's so wrong about raising their taxes?
The wealthy have been paying the lowest taxes since the 1970's.
The gap between the rich and the poor just keeps growing and the only thing that can help us now is REVOLUTION.
onefijian 7 months ago
@onefijian You're damn right onefijian. I say the first to go are the Log Cabin Republicans.
LaReinaDelBarrio 7 months ago
AS OF 10:54 pm ON SUNDAY, JULY 31 THIS CONGRESS HAS DECIDED TO SELL US OUT AGAIN IN RAISING THE DEBT CEILING.
Let us organize a march onto Washington. Contact me at chipprr1986@yahoo.com
chippprrr 7 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The Republicans ALREADY destroyed the economy. Obama can only do so much. The Tea Party wants to ruin this country and grab their guns and their Bibles and go on a hunt!
LaReinaDelBarrio 7 months ago
@LaReinaDelBarrio spending under the BO administration more than doubled that of W's. In just 2 yrs in Office, BO spent over 10 mil, more than the total in W's two terms in office. Oh yeah and we're still in Iraq & Afghanistan, Gitmo hasnt closed as promised. Clinton may have stimulated the economy but then he had banks approve loans to people wanting to buy homes they could not possibly afford to meet the monthly payments. That is just one reason why were in this economic mess
QuoEstVeritasEh 7 months ago
@QuoEstVeritasEh Well you stupid Republican, it looks like poor people and black people and gay people will be paying for the mess YOU put us in, while you sit there in your hetero mess and rape your own kids. I hope someone sets fire to you.
LaReinaDelBarrio 7 months ago
@LaReinaDelBarrio i must come to the republicans defense here at least he stated facts and figures in his argument you did no such thing you you just say stuff and say yeah in the future everyone gonna pay wheres your numbers and facts and figures. not to mention the federal debt is right now as it is almost Obama's fault alone there was only billions of dollars worth of debt before he came in office and in a short few years he barrowed a total of 12-14 trillion dollars from china and other
Shane6 7 months ago
@Shane6 The Republicans were willing to destroy America's credit rating unless Obama allowed them to make all poor people pay their way. I hope someone strings all of those Republicans up from a tree branch.
LaReinaDelBarrio 7 months ago
@LaReinaDelBarrio The idea is not to tax the poor and give tax breaks to the rich. it is equal taxes for all not to mention the rich provide products and jobs if you raise taxes on them they ain't going to just say oh well u got me they'll just raise their prices a little maybe lower wages. plus you can't just persecute the political minority it doesn't matter if someones political view are indeed wrong you can persuade them but they still deserve a say the U.S is based on popular sovereignty...
Shane6 7 months ago
@LaReinaDelBarrio the belief in a county's people being governed by the people or basically the majority but every still can vote or have a say (although right now sometimes not true) but that's the basic principle so even you think that someones views are wrong that doesn't mean they deserve to hang because everyone is affected by laws and bills passed so everyone deserves the say.
Shane6 7 months ago
@Shane6 California had a say and history will judge it for using the Constitution to take gay people's rights away. That's how Nazi Germany started. I bet you have a swastika tattoed on your ass.
LaReinaDelBarrio 7 months ago
Obama and the left are full of crap. They could of raised the ceiling back when they held the W.H. and both houses of congress. Did they do it NO WHY? as usual Obama didn't want his hands to get dirty so why not push it on to the Republicans. With a media so willing to protect Obama it is an easy thing to do. Say what you want about the tea party but is is the left that was ready to play politics with the American people and the economy. I dont think they counted on the tea party. Surprise!
OMGpeopleplease 7 months ago
@Shane6 As much as Obama has raised our debt, he did not do it alone. When he took office the debt was already 10 trillion dollars.. Bush Jr racked it up 5 trillion, all presidents before him combined racked up 5 trillion.
JusticePetitioner 7 months ago
@LaReinaDelBarrio places.
Shane6 7 months ago
Funny that, in 2006, Senator Obama said ever raising the debt ceiling was a big mistake that would weaken America domestically and internationally. Today he's begging Congress to do so. What exactly has changed in 5 years that has suddenly made raising the debt ceiling vital to our survival?
DarthCormac 7 months ago
You sir are a MORON....we've defaulted before..Nixon did it to the world when he closed the gold window. Do a little reading and then make video's .
Buckhead1959 7 months ago
"Interest on the debt is a small fraction of total outlays" is simply wrong. Debt service for the 2011 fiscal year is projected at $385 billion.
JJ50NY 7 months ago
Simple. Cut deemed non essential spending and make efficiency savings.Raise tax rates. Deficit, kablamo.
NoshRunner 7 months ago
@NoshRunner - That's what everyone said in 1990; and it's the only reason George Bush Sr. agreed to raise taxes. However, the spending cuts NEVER materialized; in fact, Congress increased spending. See, Republicans in Congress have been around for decades, and they've heard these promises before. They're simply following the adage "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice..." and are not going to be fooled twice. I applaud them for their fortitude.
DarthCormac 7 months ago
@DarthCormac But what happened when taxes were raised under Clinton/Reagan/Hw bush? Jobs were created. Not lost. Thats why I find it hilarious when republicans say that tax increases will ruin this country, when in fact, under clinton over 10 million jobs were created, yet when bush cut taxes in 2001, he created ZERO jobs according to the Department of labour.
JonnyPxN 7 months ago
I'll save you all the 2 &1/2 minute monologue: CUT SPENDING. Original stuff.
Loumademe 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Tweet #fuckyouwashington for a twitter revolution that goes beyond right/left,black/white,middle-class/working-class,new citizen/old blood.
Time to put the fear of God-& not getting elected/having a career into every Reps,Senators,Democrats,Republicans,Bureaucrats,Governors,Mayors,etc hearts. We only have democracy when they are scared they will be voted out and the ore party won't be voted in...
ChiariWarrior4ever 7 months ago
Why do we need to have a debt ceiling anyway. I heard that we are the only industialized country to have one.
Mr40acresandamule 7 months ago
The American people want to go to the poles with 4 choices to solve the debt ceiling issue as they are supposable arguing over what we want. For the first time, figure out what the American people really want with transparency and change politics in Washington over night.
1. Rebublican plan 2. Democratic Plan 3. Raise taxes to old levels / close loop holes 4. none of the above. When are we going to go back to what the people want. Our founding fathers would be a appalled.
toyworldin 7 months ago
So we are to send a message to the world that we may not pay our bills? What could possibly go wrong.
All of the people who fought and died for this country and you want to attempt a "do-over"? Do you really think you have foreseen the extent of the possible consequences? Don't expect the U.S. to come out the other side like anything you are familiar with.
earthpet 7 months ago
@earthpet funny, that's what they told us before tarp, the bank bailouts, the patriot act, and the war in iraq. nice try.
besides, we can pay our DEBT bills, though we might have to cut back on a lot of the "entitlement" largess which is the principle cause of our current fiscal mess.
suitabledude 7 months ago
Love the video. Thought you guys might like my video on the one woman who I think can solve this problem. Here's a like vide from the TomKellyShow
TomKellyShow 7 months ago
/watch?v=SkAOAfH8PtA&feature=channel_video_title
^^^ (FAILING) THE DEBT CEILING WATCH
lgreenl 7 months ago
Ever notice Nick Gillespie kind of looks like that dangerous dude from the movie "No Country for Old Men"? LOL!
MrConservative608 7 months ago
the demacrats and republicans are like 2 dead trees leaning on each other and neither will fall. We have the neocons who boated the govt under bush and the liberal goons who can't even spell the word cut. Neither party will cut enough fat to save us now. The bastard in the oval office is a useless idiot to the globalists. They know the only way to keep him in is to use the debt limit to rub some of the economy damage off on the republicans.spend spend spend blame it on the rich.
Crustydraw 7 months ago
I suggest we hold Mr. Obama to a promise he broke (one of many) when he was running for President - have this debate broadcast on C-SPAN, so that the American people can see what is involved and can see what facts/truth are being presented and where those facts/truth are coming from.
Let's stop with the easy verbal attacks being made by our all-knowing representatives in Washington, DC - claims that they don't have to back up.
Everyone: Don't LISTEN to what politicians say !!!
jgehb 7 months ago
God this guy is a moron, libertarians are ideological psychopaths.
thesparitan 7 months ago
@thesparitan How so? Can you list what philosophy in life you go by? Just because you never thought about how people should live amongst each other in this planet doesn't mean that classic liberals who have are psychopaths. Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. You are using your small mind. Can you use your great mind?
residentzombie 7 months ago
Comment removed
residentzombie 7 months ago
@thesparitan Also what is money and why do we use money? Can we all become wealthy by just running paper money off of a printing press all day long? What gives a nation wealth? or asked differently; What gives a nation's money value? Is it ok for people to steal the property of other people? What is the proper role of government? Does society even need government at all? Can any man be trusted with limitless power? If you can't answer these questions it is you sir who is an ignorant psychopath.
residentzombie 7 months ago
@residentzombie Sorry but I don't care what you said so fuck off will you, and have a nice day.
thesparitan 7 months ago
@residentzombie save your breath, his self righteous indignation outweighs his capacity for critical thought.
"Groupthink" has enveloped his mind and he has no doubt lumped everyone who liked this video in with right wing neo Palin biblical fundamentalist wallmart shopping 4x4 gas guzzlers.
bluehorse888 7 months ago
The statists create programs that lure large numbers of citizens into dependence on government handouts. Then when the government runs out of money funding those redistribution schemes, they threaten to cut funds to those dependants. They depend on those dependants to squeal and secure the pressure that allows the politicians to get more funding through debt for even more programs to collect more dependants. The cycle repeats itself over and over until insolvency.
oilhammer04 7 months ago
Comment removed
oilhammer04 7 months ago
Ronald Reagan 9/26/87 Radio Address:
Congress consistently brings the Government to the edge of default before facing its responsibility. This brinkmanship threatens the holders of government bonds and those who rely on Social Security and veterans benefits. Interest rates would skyrocket, instability would occur in financial markets, and the Federal deficit would soar.
The United States has a special responsibility to itself and the world to meet its obligations.
goog2k 7 months ago
Comment removed
megarational 7 months ago
@megarational LOL!!!
First, I have NEVER posted this Reagan quote before yesterday.
Duhh???
Second, I don't believe I have EVER posted to any of your silly YouTubes before.
What a disgusting LIAR and a FLAKE!
Pathetic.
goog2k 7 months ago
Comment removed
megarational 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@goog2k Calm down you silly bugger. If you will look you will see that your post just happened to be at the top of a pollution string of no less than 10 consecutive musings of jopealler34 - all just more rehashes of he same old stuff and if you will look at my comment time - it was 4am. I meant for my comment to be directed at him - not you.
I would apologize, but after your hysterical rant I don't think you're worth it.
megarational 7 months ago
What would happen if the whole country don't pay their mortgage or credit cards to the banks that created this in the first place ?
MRBLACKPEARL04 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
stupid liberals will never understand
shotsky94 7 months ago
obj20.com/node/18
Why Are Stabilizations Delayed 2.0 - and how the current debt crisis may be the End Game
Apparently, the fight over raising the debt ceiling, the debt, taxes and spending cuts is not just nothing new, it's actually a thing they call an "Economic Stabilization War of Attrition" which even has mathematical principles behind it where you can predict how long it will go on, which side will win, and what the outcome will be based on ...
MrErikleeolson 7 months ago
@megarational You don't seem to be so rational. How about less ad homs and more substance.
DesertDood 7 months ago
Excellent Points
FearlessConservative 7 months ago
Watch my video. Simple, short, funny but desperately obvious.
"DebtCeiling ClownHostage"
JeffMoche 7 months ago
Typical leftist ivory tower elitist convoluted argument against simple common sense. The best answer is usually the simplest. We do not have a tax problem that the Progressives would solve by raising taxes but the Laffer curves proves that income would go down so their next solution is to print more money but that will cause inflation. Here is a novel idea cut spending I know it is to simple and it is what most households do to avoid bankruptcy.
dsmith6289 7 months ago
@dsmith6289 1. a) The Laffer curve is a theoretical construct by an extreme and controversial right wing economist.
There are problems attempting to use the Lafffer curve in trying to justify more tax cuts for the rich.
See next comment:
megarational 7 months ago
@megarational Sorry but the increased tax rate does not necessarily increase revenue. As there becomes a point when tax evasion becomes economically viable. I know many who will not work overtime cause it raises ones rate and is just not worth it. I know many wealthy that are only making a a 4% on their investments increase the tax rate and they will move their assets to somewhere with a lower tax rate. BTW Keynesian economics has been repeatedly proven wrong!
dsmith6289 7 months ago
@dsmith6289 1; b) Prob's w/ the Laffer curve today:
1. The rich hire armies of accountants, tax specialists, & lawyers to minimize their taxes regardless of the rates. It’s fear of criminal prosecution, not tax rates, that prevent them from going even further to minimize taxes.
2. Laffer doesn't argue that all tax increases lead to lower rev, only tax increases above the curve “peak”. We are far below that peak. Top marginal rates are at historical lows.
megarational 7 months ago
@megarational Depends what you mean by Historic lows. Top marginal rates in the 20s were 25%, And from 1987 to 1992 where below todays rates. :-) Sorry to jump in on someone else's discussion. :-) I agree Laffer isn't 'hard science', There is some empirical evidence but it's noisy. But that means the reverse isn't true too.. raising rates won't guarantee tax increases.
dmg46664 7 months ago
@dmg46664 Historical lows by overall average, if that helps you.
Raising top marginal rates definitely won't guarantee tax revenue increases if the gov't keeps allowing tax loopholes for the rich, and definitely won't guarantee more revenue if if Paul Ryan & the Rep's get their way and reduce tax rates on dividends and capital gains to ZERO.
megarational 7 months ago
@megarational We could get rid of the income tax altogether. If we had a constitutionally sized fed. govt. we could fund it with user fees, lotteries, and perhaps a few consumption taxes. Production taxes are a very foolish was to tax.
Also, no matter what the tax rate has been for the last 60 years, the govt. usually collected about tax revenues that represented about 18% of GDP. So, either people don't pay the full rates, or there is a point of diminishing returns with tax rates.
joepeeler34 7 months ago
@joepeeler34 Fed gas tax, property tax, telephone tax, electricity tax, internet tax, heating oil tax, sporting event taxes, licensees, fines, fees levies, tolls, "sin taxes eg on alcohol & tobacco + more'n 100 other taxes which are all regressive - meaning the lower & mid inc groups pay a higher % of inc on the taxes than the rich.
What the Rep's don't tell you is tax cuts for the rich leads to making up the lost revenue with increases in all those other types of tax.
megarational 7 months ago
@megarational Why not reduce the size of the govt.? Then we don't need all of those taxes. The working poor pay and middle class pay a higher percentage of their disposable cash. Well, whose fault is that? I don't think the govt. should be in the business of punishing the wealthy. Most of them didn't get there by fraud.
joepeeler34 7 months ago
@joepeeler34 No one of either party is against "reducing the size of gov't" in principle. The problem is that the GOP predictably use that rhetoric to attack anything that prevents their corporate sponsors from engaging in unethical practices for the sake of profits. The problem is that the GOP use that rhetoric to attack any programs that help the middle & lower class, as opposed to benefiting the rich and the corporations.
megarational 7 months ago
@megarational - You think Democrats don't have corporate sponsors? You think Democrats don't engage in crony capitalism? You think they don't love picking winners and losers and funneling billions to corporations who then in turn fund them?
They just passed a health care bill that requires healthy people to buy insurance. You think insurers don't love that. You think accountants and lawyers don't love the stacks of new legislation that the Democrats have been passing?
mpc91 7 months ago
@megarational Why do you think that it is just the R's that engage in corporatism. In 2006 and 2008 the D's got slightly over 60% of corporate PAC money. They get the govt. union money as well. Even in 2010 they got just over 52% of the corporate PAC money.
The problem is that the left created a partnership between business and govt. during the Progressive and New Deal eras. Both parties have played around the edges of this system ever since. Corporatism is a kind of central planning.
joepeeler34 7 months ago
@megarational - Yep, we are as a nation, over-taxed, by a government that cannot stop spending on things it just does not need.
We are defending wealthy countries with their own armies. We are wasting billions on duplicate programs. We are spending billions on social engineering.
We have a far too complicated tax code that wastes even more of our money on accounts and the IRS.
mpc91 7 months ago
@megarational "Historic lows" For most of our country's history there was no income tax at all. When it was ushered in it was only a few percentage points for a few thousand individuals. The "progressives" in the R and D parties at the time promised that this tax would never hit the vast majority of Americans.
Also, consider that no matter what the tax rates have been tax revenues as a percentage of gdp have never gone too much higher or lower than 18%. Reason: Point of diminishing returns.
joepeeler34 7 months ago
@dsmith6289 Also, your contention that "progressives would solve the debt problem by raising taxes" is just one more Republican lie. Obama and the Dems have consistently held that ending the tax cuts for the rich and closing tax loopholes for the rich and the corporations are only a small part of the overall BALANCED approach to solving the debt problem.
The sleazy Rep corp whores, by contrast, use any talking point they think their idiot followers will fall for to protect those tax loopholes.
megarational 7 months ago
@megarational How do we define "rich." Will higher tax rates affect behavior, investment, risk aversion, etc.? I think so.
It's "balanced," huh? That's Washington-speak for we want to confiscate more taxes to pay off interest factions feeding at the trough as part of a corrupt political patronage system. The govt. has a spending problem, not a revenue problem.
Want to punish those who make more than you? Easy--well-off seniors no longer get S.S. or access to Medicare. End corporate welfare.
joepeeler34 7 months ago
@joepeeler34 "..pay off interest factions feeding at the trough.." You mean like the wealthy and profitable big oil corporations that get taxpayer subsidies, with the GOP corporate whores protecting those subsidies?
megarational 7 months ago
@megarational I am opposed to all corporate subsidies. However, tax breaks aren't a subsidy. A subsidy is writes a check to a business or individual. Taking less than they otherwise would isn't a subsidy. My only concern there is that large firms oftentimes are able to game the tax and regulatory system where smaller firms don't have the resources to do it. If tax breaks are put in place then they should be equitable.
joepeeler34 7 months ago
@megarational I am opposed to all subisidies. Can you say the same? What about farm subsidies? Those dwarf the subsidies to oil companies. What about subsidies for energy companies that the left approves us? What about public-private partnerships the left approves of?
It seems that the left loves corporatism so long as it is for so-called progressive ends. In that event it isn't even properly identified as corporatism. It is just called enlightened planning and good government.
joepeeler34 7 months ago
@joepeeler34 Quit polluting my in basket with your ceaseless regurgitation of the same topics dealt with already in this thread. I already told you there was more than enough info on this thread for anyone to form and opinion.
megarational 7 months ago
@megarational Quit returning my e-mails, and I'll cease responding to your various economic illiteracies :)
joepeeler34 7 months ago
@joepeeler34 Let's for arguments sake, say a 50% top marginal rate on those making more than 5 million a year. Remember it's top marginal rate, they still pay the lower rates on that portion of their income below the 5 M. A 50% marginal rate, even if there were no loopholes & they paid that top rate, would mean their take home income would be $2.5 M. Are you saying one could simply not be motivated by a paltry $2.5M?
cont'd next comment...
megarational 7 months ago
@megarational I am saying that you or I don't have a right to other people's money.
I am also concerned that the govt. makes political decisions and not economic decisions. I want govt. deciding value on as few as resources as possible.
When a businessman misuses labor and material resources he is punished with losses. The harmful social acitivity soon stops for lack of capital.
The govt. has no profit/loss feedback mechanism. The harmful activity goes on and on.
joepeeler34 7 months ago
@megarational Further, you are assuming that higher rates of taxation have no effect on wealth creation, investment, motivation, risk aversion, etc. It most certainly does.
Govt. lacks mechanisms to sort. It has no way of knowing whether it is combining land, labor, and capital efficiently to meet consumer preferences. It only results in a political patronage system and misallocation of capital and labor resources.
Leftists seem to think that wealth creation just happends. Nope.
joepeeler34 7 months ago
@joepeeler34 And if you tax the rich more, it means you can tax the lower and middle class less. According to your argument that would give more incentive to the middle and lower class, and there are a lot more of them than they are of the rich.
megarational 7 months ago
@megarational Not if you cut spending. You are assuming that spending levels must remain the same. I want massive spending cuts. Tax cuts can come later. We need a simplified tax code and an elimination of all production taxes. If you tax something, you get less of it all else being equal. If that simple principle is understood, production taxes are a nuclear-grade stupid way to tax.
I am not interested in a tax code that seeks to punish some and reward others. Look where that has gotten us.
joepeeler34 7 months ago
@megarational Our % of GDP going to the government is rapidly becoming unsustainable. We have the highest corporate rate and we have the most progressive tax rate amongst the developed nations. the top 105 pay 90% of the tax burden while the bottom 50% pay no income tax at all! The rich already pay more then their fair share. I agree regarding tax loopholes being closed and ending corporate welfare. A balanced approach would be to scrap all the unfunded partisan Obama government programs!
dsmith6289 7 months ago
@dsmith6289 The offical corp tax rates are meaningless, because no corporation pays them. Thanks to loopholes, the effective corporate rates are far lower.
Best example: GE in 2010 made billions in profits both domestically and abroad - yet they not only paid no income tax but actually got a tax credit.
megarational 7 months ago
@dsmith6289 The portion of the total taxes paid by those at the top end is always a favorite Rep talking point.
Yet they NEVER talk about the comparison of the taxes they pay to the portion of total wealth they hold, because that comparison does not support their agenda.
megarational 7 months ago
@megarational A lie is tell people that 80% support tax hikes when no such poll supports that statement, ramming trillions of unfunded partisan spending then expecting that the other side to fund it then calling that balanced or asking the 10% of the population paying 90% of the tax burden while the bottom 50% pay no income tax while saying they need to pay even more then they all ready do. We all ready have the one of the most progressive tax rates along in the industrialized world.
dsmith6289 7 months ago
Comment removed
megarational 7 months ago
Everyone should be stocking up on peas and ammo now. I don't expect our government to get it right...
FrozenOne1976 7 months ago
I hate Nick Gillespie. He is irritating and smarmy. But that doesn't stop him from being absolutely right.
dragknuckle 7 months ago
Give peas a chance?
dragknuckle 7 months ago
Logipundit came up with ten reasons. Nick does a great job of narrowing it down to three.
AmConNation 7 months ago
I like peas.
squirreljester2 7 months ago
So you claim you don't listen to Rep politicians or their propaganda arm GOP-TV (Fox)?
Then where did you get the absurd idea that Obama wants to attack the deficit solely on increased taxes?
(By "increased taxes" Obama means ending the Bush tax cuts for the rich and ending tax loopholes for corps & for the rich).
megarational 7 months ago
@megarational Was this aimed at me? You need to reply to me to make sure I get it :) I don't deny the Democratic/Obama nor Republican rhetoric. But I think it's only Rhetoric. Volker didn't manage to reign inflation through interest rate rises because he was under a Republican watch! No sir. He did it because it was a political FORCED after the stagflation of the 70s. You need the pressure of tax cuts to force cuts in spending. These are all politicians.
dmg46664 7 months ago
@dmg46664 No one is against lower taxes. However, not with borrowed money, and not when the tax cuts overwhelmingly benefit those at the very highest incomes.
megarational 7 months ago
@megarational Agreed, but one can't get an income tax cut if one pays no income taxes, right? If one gave eveyone an equitable 1% tax reduction, the wealth would "benefit" more because that 1% number would represent far more dollars.
The problem is that we have an income tax at all. It is used to support a corrupt political patronage system. Skillful demagogues then use it as part of their arsenal of class warfare rhetoric.
joepeeler34 7 months ago
Further, I never said that I denied that Obama may do some cutting. As a rule I semi-believe what politicians claim in the short term. 2 years out less so. 5 years out... not at all. The point being is that after taxes would be raised, and the books come closer to be balanced, it's an argument for politicians (Republican or Democrat) later to spend even more. It's what they're good at.
dmg46664 7 months ago
@dmg46664 Good grief. To justify it's insanity the GOP contrives whatever spin it thinks will work on it's idiot followers. Then their propaganda arm (Fox) repeats that spin endlessly. Then the idiots like you get on youtube and regurgitate everything they say almost word for word. .
According to your insane logic (ie: coincidentally the same spin the GOP has been using) you shouldn't cut spending either, because if that reduced the deficit - it would be an incentive to spend more
megarational 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Unfortunately, I think that's true! When Jefferson said "It's the natural order of things for Government to gain and Liberty to yield". That's what he meant. So if tax cuts of any form are on the table (Save the amount necessary to perform basic functions), you have to take it. Because 9/10 there will be growth in spending. tinyurl(.)com/3u9wwfg shows Milton Friedman talking about this in 1980! Long before Fox news. He was critical of the Republican's support of special interest steal industry.
dmg46664 7 months ago
@dmg46664 You said "If you assume that you aren't going to cut spending then you have to raise taxes". Then went into a song and dance with that premise.
Your whole comment was worse than pointless because "NO ONE SUGGESTED THAT SPENDING CUTS WOULD NOT BE PART OF THE PROCESS TO GET RID OF THE DEFICIT".
megarational 7 months ago
@megarational Can you name the specific tax cuts proposed. The D's have their own propaganda arms in the rest of the mainstream media. Pointing out that news outlets are biased isn't an argument.
Obama claimed not too long ago that govt. spending was stimulus. Now he says govt. spending cuts are necessary. Doesn't he implicitly concede that govt. spending is an albatross given that he is now calling for spending cuts (no specifics though) as a cure? He can't have it both ways. Neither can you.
joepeeler34 7 months ago
@joepeeler34 "Obama claimed that spending was stimulus". Yes, it is. Spending creates demand and that stimulates production and jobs.
"Now he says that spending cuts are necessary". He is saying that spending cuts are a necessary part of long term solution to the debt. However, he still recognizes that drastic and sudden reductions in spending when the economy is weak cans send us into a worse recession, because spending is stimulus and cutting it suddenly is the opposite of a stimulus.
Capish?
megarational 7 months ago
@megarational Spending is the product of wealth creation--not the cause.
Wealth creation starts with underconsumption--savings--which is used to finance capital investment. That investment leads to productivity and production gains. Purchasing power increases and the spending takes care of itself.
Japan did the same thing and has mountains of debt and a 20 year depression to show for it.
Excessive consumption spending driven by debt is a big part of the problem.
joepeeler34 7 months ago
More straight talk as usual.
wisted 7 months ago
Dude, please stop using facts and logic with libs.
What are you thinking?
InternetDisciple 7 months ago
the 19 people who disliked this were all obama on different email accounts
boristhepython 7 months ago
@boristhepython
The Neocons voted, too..
666sigma 7 months ago
DURR LETS BLAME OBAWMA LAWLZ
Streetmastaalex 7 months ago
Good video. Makes sense. Obama instilling fear into the older populace saying he could not guarantee their Social Security checks would arrive on time, is deplorable. Imagine, a president of the US saying such a thing.
czubspenx 7 months ago
Obama's cute little imperatives are insults with a strong fart of "I'm your Daddy. Do as I say." Pull off your own Band-Aid: look what's been festering under there! Eat your own fucking peas, dickwad! But don't eat mine and everyone else's: we've spent our lives paying for them and now all we want to do is merely survive.
They've never been on your table.
I hope Kucinich goes Joe Pesci on your ass with that little copy of the Constitution he keeps in his jacket pocket.
IDoNotBlameYou 7 months ago
@IDoNotBlameYou When the GOP act like a bunch of kids, they deserve to be treated like kids.
megarational 7 months ago
Comment removed
IDoNotBlameYou 7 months ago
These numbers absolutely make me nuts:
usdebtclock. org
Scoinsoffaterocks 7 months ago
Reason is as full of malarkey as others.
Reason wants *open borders* and they currently support immigration by any means possible. That leads to increased spending and more power for the free-spending far-left. It also contributes to the unemployment problem; Americans could be doing many of the jobs that illegal aliens currently do, and at a net financial benefit.
Don't trust Reason.
NoMoreBlatherDotCom 7 months ago
@NoMoreBlatherDotCom Dude, Reason magazine is a libertarian publication. They want to take an axe to the federal government. They don't believe in central planning, so they are are hostile to what the left is selling on most points. They aren't "left-wing." That's way off base.
joepeeler34 7 months ago
@MrJeggus and just whom do you serve, comrade? lenin? stalin? your ass?
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50% are just voting for handouts--that's not sustainable for a democratic country.
ZamolxisReborn 7 months ago
Fire incumbents (sp) don't re-elect anyone! No matter the party!
(of course 3rd parties = better imho) I'm really not a conservative nor much of a libertarian (I am technically a libertarian) ... but people people people ... you give the government more money and they just waste it on crap and become abusive to us.
DesertDood 7 months ago
@DesertDood You are technically a libertarian? That makes you technically a Ron Paul baby with autism.
megarational 7 months ago
PEAS!
TacticalCitySlicker 7 months ago
Oh please!!! Obama cutting spending??? That's why we're in this fucking mess to begin with he spent what we should have run the government on on his stupid fucking stimulus spending!
Look, Obama got his way (at our expense), he got to be the first black affirmative action president in American history, now it's time to fix everything this ignorant ghetto trash moron's fucked up and IMPEACH THAT BASTARD NOW ....before we're all eating at a fucking soup kitchen!!
sweetbilly 7 months ago
This makes perfect sense. It is direct and concise.
ElephantClubDC 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Obamanablenomics at work.
Borrow, borrow and borrow some more to pay off and reward political cronies. Then hold a gun to the heads of everyone else to force them to pay the debt!
BrainDeadRepublican 7 months ago
Why does Statist Tyranny grow?
1) LUST -excessive love of others. 2) GLUTTONY - indulgence and over-consumption. 3) GREED - also known as avarice or covetousness. 4) SLOTH - laziness and indifference. 5) APATHY - despair. 6) WRATH - rage, anger, hate. 7) ENVY - hate of the "rich". 8) PRIDE - hubris, arrogance. 9) VALINGLORY - unjustified boasting.
These flaws in humanity are WHY Statism grows and WHY some wish to control others "for their own good”.
Human Nature NEVER changes!
yakyakyak69 7 months ago
We have a $1.7 trillion annual deficit and the spending for ObamaCare does not even start until 2013. The annual deficit will skyrocket after that! Obama structured ObamaCare that way because he did not want voters to know how much ObamaCare will cost before the 2012 election. If Obama wants the debt ceiling raised, he has to agree to scrap ObamaCare. That is the first requirement. Nothing else can be negotiated until that is agreed upon!
roncram 7 months ago
@roncram Obamacare? It's modeled after Romney's system.
You idiots fight the only real improvements made in your h.c. system in many decades.
eg: Did you know that the h.c. reform bill mandates that insur. co's spend at least 80% to 85% of premium dollars on actual health care (as opposed to executive jets, lobbying & campaign contributions, advertising etc)?
Any wonder why the insurance corp's, their corp. lapdogs the GOP and the GOP's propaganda arm Faux News (aka GOP-TV) attack the reforms?
megarational 7 months ago
@megarational I am no fan of Romney. Romney's system has caused prices to skyrocket and health care quality to drop. BTW, there are several non-profit health insurance companies. If you don't like the profits health insurance companies make, then buy from a non-profit. I do.
roncram 7 months ago
@roncram
1. following the introduction of Romeycare, premiums increased by up to 6% for employer sponsored premiums, up to a bare 1.5% for individuals.
2. There is no evidence that the quality of h.c. suffered. There is ev that the residents are buying better plans.
3. The best judges of the overall result is the people of Illinois. A new poll from Harvard School of Public Health and The Boston Globe “found that 63 %of Mass residents support the 2006 h. law, up 10 % points in the past 2 yrs..”
megarational 7 months ago
@roncram There are BOTH pros and cons to non-profit health care insurance organizations. Look them up.
megarational 7 months ago
@roncram Romney is a phony. He doesn't want to address monetary issues like returning to gold and silver money, nor is he opposed to the Federal Reserve system. He believes in central planning. He's another establishment drone. He will be a disaster.
joepeeler34 7 months ago
@megarational I don't want the government telling private organizations how they should operate, under any circumstances. I view this as immoral. My morality demands only freedom, yours demands I submit my will to others.
Huboons 7 months ago
@Huboons The fucking insurance companies should not even be considered for basic health care. Health care is a necessity, not a commodity like flat screen TV's.
The single payer system is what would have reduced h.c. costs up to a massive 6% of GDP, but you ignorant assholes blew your chance, choosing instead to believe the propaganda fed to you endlessly by the insurance corporations, their corporate whores the GOP, and the GOP propaganda arm Faux Fiction (aka GOP-TV).
megarational 7 months ago
@Huboons Your GOP absurd idea of freedom is the freedom of corporations to fuck people over.
megarational 7 months ago
@megarational and yours is the freedom of government to fuck people over. Mine allows people to pick and choose who they deal with, yours allows no choice, and therefore really isn't freedom at all. I think the problem here is you confuse freedom with having no responsibility for your own actions. I know you want dear leader to hold you and make everything alright but the only person who can do that is you.
Huboons 7 months ago
Obama campaigned as a moderate, then forced ObamaCare down our throats and gave away billions to his Democrat bankers on Wall Street. Republicans ran for Congress by promising to vote NO on any increase in taxes and NO on an increase in the debt limit. Obama deceived us. The 2010 election gave Congress a mandate to stop his agenda. That is what we are watching. The Senate is more likely to compromise, but not the House. Congress holds all the power. They control the purse strings.
roncram 7 months ago
@roncram Health care reform was one main platform of Obama's campaign.
megarational 7 months ago
@megarational Yes, health care reform was part of Obama's campaign, but it was just a slogan not a proposal. When Americans saw the actual proposal, they HATED it. Obama got it passed by unethical and possibly illegal means. ObamaCare will costs us trillions. Obama forced the CBO to come up with bogus numbers to make it look less expensive than it is, but the costs do not kick in until AFTER the 2012 election. Obama knows he would never get reelected if people knew how much ObamaCare costs.
roncram 7 months ago
@roncram Actually, when people were told the actual provisions of the h.c. bill they are in favor of it. What they are against is the perception of it portrayed by the insurance industry, the GOP corporate whores who are trying to bring Obama down for their own political purposes, and GOP-TV (Fox) - the propaganda arm of the GOP.
megarational 7 months ago
Obama, don't worry. You need Zionist Republicans take the baits to default everything they can. Otherwise, their supreme court under covered will cook some laws legalizing foreclosing White House to private Zionist corporations. Default should be interpreted as the population walking away from corporate America's cooking debts on them. Balance budgets are just Jewish impractical. Manipulated high unemployment will end soon after this. This would just default Republican wall sellers.
beancube2010 7 months ago
Default is what we need to stop our govt using our hard earned money on military and rely on Jewish language rating companies to spread lies used by Zionist corrupted corporations manipulating the entire population. But as I know, Zionist Republicans will use this opportunity to privatize public infrastructures and resources distribution for their political contributors behind the scene. They love to play shock doctrine. Be prepare for a labor union initiated protests to expose them on the spot.
beancube2010 7 months ago
@SonnyTheWhiteDwarf it's even cheaper for you, since you've been eating liberal bullshit and drinking their kool-aid for some time, it seems.
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that, or you're a moron. oh, or both. haha.
ZamolxisReborn 7 months ago
this is dumb. geithner has staved off the ceiling so far by taking money out of federal pensions temporarily. aug 2 is when he can't do that.
secondly, the deficit is not a problem to be solved by next year. avg tax revenue is about 19% usually. past two years it has been near 14%. almost all the increase in spending is automatic from food stamps, unemployment insurance, etc.
deficit reduction immediately hurts the economy because there's no difference between a tax increase or a spending cut
yohohobottleofrum 7 months ago
@yohohobottleofrum did you seriously just say that a tax increase is the same as a spending cut?!
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taxes TAKE people's money, spending cuts LEAVE people their own money. what world do YOU live in?!
ZamolxisReborn 7 months ago
@ZamolxisReborn 8000 jobs are being lost in florida because nasa is ending the shuttle missions. that's a cut in government spending. deficit reduction, either by higher taxes or lower spending, is contractionary. deficit expansion, either by lower taxes or higher spending, is expansionary. when the economy is in bad shape, govts are supposed to follow an expansionary policy. when the economy is growing fine, govts are supposed to have a contractionary policy.
yohohobottleofrum 7 months ago
@yohohobottleofrum John Maynard Keynes has been proven wrong for 60 years, dumbo.
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gov. spending is inflationary, NOT expansionary.
economic growth and job creation happen when the gov. gets the hell out of the way.
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ps: your fave, obama, is cutting the shuttle, so don't blame me, bud. but the shuttle is good because it improves US technology, NOT because it creates 8000 jobs in florida.
ZamolxisReborn 7 months ago