What I don't understand is when Lisa Mcpherson was in the hospital and scientologists came to take her away, why weren't they told by staff to "Get the hell out of here, she's not going anywhere as she doesn't seem to have consent on making her own decisions at this time. We are looking at her now to assess her ailment."
@supermandan85 stuff happens, and I'm sure the staff that didn't do as you suggest regret it to this day.....Scientologoists are trained in intimidation.....nice observation though....in a perfect world this would not have happened.....
Scientology is very stupid , but is it more stupid than Christianity or Islam ? Read the Bible . Talk about some dumbass stories . We need to teach people how to objectively think things through . I tseems almost like public school teaches kids to blindly accept things as true . Half of the lessons in my gradeschool textbooks I now know te be false . Math is literally the only subject where we were not taught falsities . No wonder people fall for this crap , they are preprogrammed .
@MindofaJedi the reason why people who are scientologists are more stupid than christians and muslims is because at least the christians and muslims were brainwashed from birth to believe. scientologists made an actual conscious decision to believe this bullshit
@giorgiv18 nope, I was brainwashed from birth like most people to be a christian so don't make comments of things you know nothing of. i call it brainwashing when christians and muslims tell their children if they dont believe they will burn for all eternity. thats call child abuse.
@AussiePolitics withdrawn. and they actually did that? i mean in my country christianity was more like the second frontier of ideological war to keep our nation from falling apart, so many people are christians because it's a matter of being a patriot. and nobody tells children in my country they'll burn in hell. here god is part of our everyday life, so people subconciously believe even if they don't want to.
@giorgiv18 i disagree that religion holds a nation together, in fact the nations with the highest amount of murders, conflict etc are those with the highest level of secular citizens. you speak as a believe when you say that people subconsciously must believe in something because a lot of people do. however its a bit odd to suggest that people who dont believe in god do believe in god because others do.
@AussiePolitics there were persians, romans, then again persians, then arabs, later turks, then monguls from temuchin's empire, later monguls called white-fur, or something, later osmalos, after that again persians and after that russians again and again. and every time they conquered our land, they began to opress our church. so it just happened. 100,000 people in 13th century were executed, because they didn't defy christianity and accept islam. study history of georgia and you'll see.
@giorgiv18 i think you'll find if you study history that christians have been just as good at mass murders of the 'heathens' as the muslims have been. they have killed each other for thousands of years so that doesn't really prove anything about religion holding a nation together, if anything it shows how it builds hatred between different groups.
@AussiePolitics i'm neither a catholic, nor a protestant, i follow georgian orthodox church. if you're talking about crusades, the only time there were crusaders in georgia, was in 1121 and it was a war to free my country. besides, there was nothing religious about those wars, it was merely a decoy for nonwealthy aristocrats to search for money. if you to study history, you'll see that there was first flow of commoners and thugs seeking wealth even before the wars started.
@giorgiv18 right and all the religious propaganda that was used to send thousands of soldiers to take back the 'holy lands' had nothing at all to do with religion? the massacres of thousands of muslims was non-reliigous? next you'll be telling me the spanish inquisition was non-religious as well. christians and muslims who conquer other nations have an equally nasty habit of killing people who did not believe the same things they did.
@AussiePolitics oh, come on now. it's always about money. what about indulgence? sins for money. kiling your wife-14 gold pieces, raping a woman- 7 gold pieces. there's always a hidden motive.they said they wanted to baptise indians, but their gold was the only thing they wanted. i'm telling you that there were many knights without lands seeking wealth. nothing more. if not so, why did they attack constantinopol? study history a little more and then talk.
@giorgiv18 maybe some of the spanish in america were interested in gold but they got funded by the church because they were writing back and stating explicitly how they were converting or killing heathens. the spanish inquisition and the burnings of catholics and protestants in england for century occurred for no other reason than religion. the crusades would never have happened without religion to justify them because they all believed they were doing gods work.
@AussiePolitics oh, come on now. dno't believe everything they write. of course they would do so to justify themselves, but that was not their true motive. have you ever read the fall of tenochtitlan"? what do you really know about cortes? why did colombus travel to america to begin with? money! the spanish funded him in search of wealth. no matter what you say, without any set of rules any ideology will turn into somthing terrible due to man's sinister nature.
they received vast amounts of finance from the catholic church and they wrote back to them describing all the heathens they were killing or converting. they also justified their immoral behaviour through their belief that as they were heathens they were lesser beings. no-one kills someone else more joyfully and with less guilt than when they do it in the name of their religion. are you really arguing that the massacres of the inquisition and the crusades were not motivated at all by religion?
@AussiePolitics yes, i say it was merely a strive for money and power, but it was justified by religion. and no one cared about religion, just power. if not so, christian religion would not split into orthodox and catholics. for the note, one major difference is, that the head of catholic church is the pope, while head of orthodox church is god. and protestantism was just a child of landowners, who wanted to expand their wealth by adding the churches land's to their own. read more books.
@giorgiv18 right and the inquisition was just for money and power too? because the christians were the ones with all the money and power and they tortured and killed the weak on the slightest suspicion of being heathens. im sure a catholic would have something to say about the claim you made about god only being the head of the orthodox church, the fact that christianity split up shows more that people used it to believe whatever they wanted and made them feel good.
@AussiePolitics i never said god was only head of orthodox church, i just stressed they idealise the title of pope to ranks of god. and i never said spanish inquisition was for money, or power, i just named crusades and spahish expeditions to america. and at some point you are right, when you say people used it to believe whatever made them feel good. but the fact remains that christianity became an essential part of my county's everyday life.
@AussiePolitics and georgia never justified any of it's conquers with religious motives. only defensive wars. and,my country has had wars that no other country will ever imagine, i mean mostly odds were 5 to 1 us not even having arthilery, but we still made it through and that's because we treasured three things: our homeland, our native language and our religion. and no incompetent uneducated moron three thousand miles away will convince me that we treasured religion for nothing.
@giorgiv18 wow and now you get nasty. I do find it rather amusing to be called incompetent and uneducated when I understand more about the writings the conquistadores did to get money from the church to kill heathens. you know what? statistically speaking the number of people who change their religion during their lifetime is virtually nil. we are brainwashed into faith and only one extremely brainwashed would have such a narrow world view.
@AussiePolitics you seem like a nice guy, but you've been severely cornered, that's why you wuestion my views.i'm neither narowminded, nor brainwashed by anybody. i don't go to church, so how am i brainwashed?and i don't go there, because my neighbour's intelectual and spiritual needs are far below than mine. it would be great, if we could talk facetoface, but that seems impossible. so i'll just tell you:weather you believe or not, faith makes people stronger.
@giorgiv18 leviticus 31:17 "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. but all the women and children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
there you go, you accuse me of being cornered yet your own bible describes how your god directed the genocide and murder of children. i accuse you of being brainwashed because if you had been born into islam you'd be talking about allah right now.
@AussiePolitics not leviticus, numbers. if i recall corectly, these were words said by moses. and note that christianity is not like: no sin that cant be forgiven', to gain repentance, you must truly be sorry for your sins, otherwise the punishment will be severe. children are punished for the sins of their parents, just like your and mine will be for ours. all to motivate us more to be more religious. a question: what do you think of the holy fire?
@giorgiv18 you think it is moral for a god to order the murder of innocent children? how is that justice to be responsible for something you have had absolutely nothing to do with? what you are defending is genocide. i am sorry but unlike christinaity my morality does not excuse the murder of children.
@AussiePolitics god is someone who defines what's morality. even if you don't like it, it won't change. and physical termination has nothing to do with immorality, assuming you believe in afterlife. people are responsible for their actions and not only theirs. as for your morale, it is just a facade to conceal what you really are, because every human is capable of something rerrible. everything god does, happens for a reason you may, or may not understand. god is perfect.
@giorgiv18 god is perfect? im afraid i would not describe a being who orders the murder of children a perfect being. more like a bloodthirsty monster. you say god defines morality so then there is no such thing as an action being good in and of itself? if god decides to change his morality again to allow baby killing like he used to then then your morality is not absolute. people are responsible for their actions? what actions had children done which justified their slaughter?
@AussiePolitics you fucking moron, didn't you see, what i said? death is only physical termination. this world exists to give us a choice, what path to take, so death's not as frightening as you imagine. besides, i said that in the bible those are moses'(not god's) words and it was tactically correct to avoid any further escalation and bloodshed. you talk as if god will sease existing just because people stop believing in him.
@giorgiv18 avoid further escalation? how much further can you escalate it then killing children and stealing their virgins? you do realise you are trying to justify genocide here, which kind of shows what belief in god does to people's morality. gods existence has nothing to do with belief, humanity has invented thousands of gods and raised their children to believe and you are no different. like i said before, if you had been born into a muslim family i bet you'd be talking about allah now.
@AussiePolitics in the bible it's only written that god told moses to avenge his people. it's moses who orders that genocide. and further escalation: you kill their parents, they grow up, they are pissed and have a lust for vengeance. there's your escalation. i'm not saying i like it, but i think it was the best option out. and all in all, this is the old part of the bible, not what jesus taught us to do. study religion more and then we'll talk.
@giorgiv18 study religion more? I have studied enough of it to see the horrible genocides described in the bible at gods order. all the children that were killed in his name. and you think this bloodthirsty beast is a source of morality? that is laughable. tell you what, anyone who believes that the murder of children is never justified is instantly a more ethical being than your god.
@AussiePolitics first of all, you don't understand the concept of afterlife and why were we born to this world to begin with. you understand everything straightforward. and second, i'm telling you that god is not the plot of human's imagination. i have studied various religions: zoroastrizm, islam, buddism, and when i looked at how they originated, i came to conclusion that christianity was the only thruthful religion. your sence of morale is earthly, unable to understand high concepts.
@giorgiv18 oh and I find it amusing how you decided that christianity was correct after 'studying' the other ones. tell me, why does the bible lie when it says there was a roman census across the whole empire? that NEVER HAPPENED. also why does it lie about herods baby killing? funny how no-one else seemed to notice it happening nor was there a sudden spike in childrens graves. interesting how suddenly these huge events were made up in the gospels written decades after jesus existed.
@AussiePolitics and no matter what you saw, if you don't turn your brain on and think why this or that happened, you'll only jump to conclusions. just because you don't like the divine punishment, nothing will change. these genocides were intended to show future generations the consequences of their actions, so they don't do anything stupid. broaden your view, understand the philosophy. until then i don't wish to hear anything from someone as twisted, dumb, stupid and arrogant as you.
@giorgiv18 oh i see, so according to your religion baby killing is justified if it will teach people a lesson then is it? you call me twisted and dumb yet you are the one defending genocide and the murder of children. i think its your religion that has severely twisted your sense of morality.
@giorgiv18 surely moral alarm bells must go off in your head when you read about your god ordering people to murder babies. sorry but baby killing kind of rules you out of being a great moral being. in terms of scale and cruel killings, your god really is worse than hitler.
@AussiePolitics how many times do i have to say it, you sir, are most hard headed man i've ever seen. you understand everything(if there's anything you understand) straightforward. what does bible say about man's origin? what does it say, why are we in this world? if you pay ore attention you will understand. your view is limited to that you have in front of you. yes, my moral alarm did go off, but quickly went off, when i thought about it.
@giorgiv18 yep it quickly went off because that is what religion does, turns you into people who believe that genocide and infanticide can be justified. it is sickening. you live in a simplistic world brushing off all the genocides as just being gods right
@AussiePolitics you are so comfortable in your cosy habitat. there's no telling in what kind of monster you'll turn into, if something bad happens. you have no right to speak about morality, unless you are the etalon yourself. worse than hitler. so what about the devil. do you prefer to go to the devil? what i'm getting to is that either way you are fucked. you have a choice between god you don't like and devil and i assure you, if you don't choose god, you choose the devil.
@giorgiv18 tell me, how many children has the devil murdered compared to god? i see genocides and child murder against gods name, please tell me where in the bible it ever shows the devil doing worse things. its kind of sad how in gods own book he comes off as the real bloodthirsty monster.
what kind of monster i would turn into? well i cant see child murder ever helping anyone no matter how shitting a situation you get in.
@AussiePolitics aha! i knew you would say that. that's the whole point. it's not written, because devil doesn't do it himself. he provokes, tempts, makes others do ditry work and if you fall for it, he wins. for the notice there's no stalin's signature on any of execution orders, but tell me he didn't have enybody executed. and in a shitty situation you could ignore a child dying just to get several seconds of more air, or several gramms of food.
@giorgiv18 right, tell me when the devil performed genocides, killed every human on the planet bar a few, wrote laws for people to be stoned to death. oh wait millions many of them innocent child at the hands of your god. so we have god committing genocides and the devil is evil because he "tempts"? wow i can really tell who the monster is.
i would ignore a child dying? not exactly what we are talking about. we are talking about the calculated murder of many defenceless children for NO reason.
@AussiePolitics i new you were a narrow minded cunt, but didn't expect this even from you. was it god who started world wars? was it god who started crusades, or conquered and killed indiand? was it god that started spanish inquisition? or was it the devil in the form of greed, anger, lust for power. and if god orders to inocent kill children, he makes sure they don't go to hell. when devil tempts people, thousands and millions die and many go to hell.
@giorgiv18 right i am getting called a narrow minded cunt by a person trying to defend child murder. wow this is how religion twists people minds, i really do pity you.
do you have any proof it was the devil who started all the wars in human history? because all the wars and genocides in the bible appear to be directly due to god. how about this, when the devil drowns every human in existence and murders a few children I'll call them both about even.
@AussiePolitics okay. i give up. there's no way to fix that twisted mind of yours and if there is, it's not within my powers. and tell you what: the bible tells us that devil represents rage, anger, sloth, lust, egoism everything you wouldn't like in a human. if not these qualities produce wars then what does? and i am repeating the same thing over and over again, but you ignore it all the time, so yes, you are a narrowminded cunt.
@giorgiv18 you call me twisted yet when you make an objective reading of the bible its god who is the one murdering children, not the devil. you call me a narrow minded cunt yet you are so brainwashed you actually believe that infanticide is ok if your god says so. thats what religion does to morality.
'produce wars' well god certainly was good at the genocide part of things and he's supposed to be good and righteous. frustrating isnt it trying to spread your delusions of a monster.
@AussiePolitics just live me alone will you. you just don't understand, don't believe and that's your problem. i'm telling you that this life is nothing. it is only a test a chance to return to the garden of eden. and if god wants to take you to garden of eden, it's okay. and the word kill is only termination of one man by another man, not god. and the numbers 31:17-18 it's moses who tells children to do so, not the god.
@giorgiv18 you're right, i dont understand nor believe why an all mighty god would choose a primitive tribe in the desert who murdered children and committed genocides to be his chosen people. i dont understand how anyone in their right mind can excuse the murder of babies like it is no big deal. you know how much religion fucks people up? last time i spoke to someone like you i asked them if they would stab a baby in the head if their god asked. they said yes.
@AussiePolitics the point is if their god asks. you do you know the story of abraham and a lamb? your problem is that you don't believe in afterlife, divine punishment, or anything else. what do you not agree with, that you shold not kill a man, or that you should respect your parents, or you shouldn't lie. god did not order murder of children and there's no holy war in newer part of the bible, it was moses, who exagerated the orders. that's why god gave people those ten commandements.
@giorgiv18 yes I know the story, and it is also horrible. god told him to kill his son to test his faith. wow talk about a vindictive monster. it was all moses? well then I ask why was god backing a tribe who went around committing genocides? why did god choose a child murderer to be his messenger? most of the ten commandments are not even ethical at all. tell me since when is murder equal to holding the sabbath holy?
@AussiePolitics you are stuped. jumping from one silly argument to another. you think of got like a grumpy old man, like norgan freeman, who its on his throne somwhere in the sky and is looking down at us from his giant magnifying glass. you say what, but never ask why. so even if you reply to this, i'm not going to respond or even read it. you've already wasted enough of my time and patience. have a nice day
@giorgiv18 yep another christian so brainwashed they run away as soon as they get asked a few hard questions about the ethics of their religion. i never said god was an old man in the sky. i asked why would he choose out of all the people on the planet a tribe who murders babies and commits genocides and then actively encourages them to kill and take over lands? your god is a bloodthirsty monster and you are too brainwashed to see. this is how religion fucks people up.
@AussiePolitics i don't run away bum, i just can't make you understand what you are supposed to believe. he chose out of all people in the world jews, because he knew they had what it takes to spread the religion. and god ordered to kill the entire nation, because they were to fucked up to listen, commited crimes,although were warned, so he punished the entire nation to show as an example. but that's my own opinion.
@giorgiv18 you cant make any rational person not brainwashed into your religion believe that a moral being would choose a child murdering, germicidal tribe to be his people. here's a hint for your god: next time you choose your 'people' choose ones who dont kill babies.
@AussiePolitics name the tribe who don't, and have the guts to spread god's words. i told you it happenet thousands of years ago, when there were different standarts for morality. and it was a one time thing. and with all that your right mind you couldn't understand something that simple. bravo. i applaud the critical thinking that godlessnes induces.
@giorgiv18 name one tribe that didnt? well i bet any tribe that actually behaved in an ethical, peaceful way probably had all their babies killed and were conquered by 'gods' people. so i guess im asking too much when i hold 'gods' people to a standard that includes not committing genocides?
oh and I thought christians believe in absolute morality, but apparently morality changes according to gods mood.
@AussiePolitics and what tribe would behave in an ethical way back then more than 3000 years ago? there was no sence of morality. and the meaning of morality doesn't change with god's mood. it changes by our level of development. when you go to the church for the first time nobody asks you to behave almost instantly, they tip you off. but if you know how to beave but don't, you are told to leave. and for the note, this is analogy, something you don't very well understand.
@giorgiv18 this is rather amusing because supposedly the bonus of having a god is a sense of absolute morality, so many christians would completely disagree with you. what you are saying is god didnt care about supporting ethical people, he supported the strongest. thats circular logic you realise. they won because they had god but god only supported them as they were the strongest. apparently god isnt interested in helping the peaceful or the moral.
@AussiePolitics no i say god supported them because they were of the best morale at that time. because if you read the bible a bit more, you see that jews of mose's generation were not worthy of being supported. they were not strong enough to survive.
@giorgiv18 so yet again i ask, is it too much to ask your god support peaceful people to spread his message? you CLAIM they were too weak to survive yet every civilisation throughout history has said their invented god helped the win wars and ordered killings. tell me how are the israelites ANY different? what proof do you have that THEIR god is the real one.
@AussiePolitics and once agai i tell you to read the bible you fucking moron. it's all a test, don't you see? i bet you just googled bible and violence together and that's all your knowledge. and i'm telling you to show me a peaceful tribe back then 3000 years ago. the jews were slaves at that time, the most relatively peaceful people on the planet.
@giorgiv18 actually like i said I used to be a christian before I actually started looking for evidence of your faith and found that there was none. they were relatively peaceful until god chose them? what and then god turned them into bloodthirsty savages? bullshit, they were a tribe in the desert who invented a god and they happened to kill more people than the others and spread their religion. show me proof that your god is any different to the others.
@giorgiv18 oh and by the way, you're acting like a patronising dickhead now. tell me, you say god chose the israelites because they had the best chance of spreading his word by going around committing genocides. so tell me, how is that any different between the made up god of the strongest tribe who went around performing genocides? you say he supported them because they were the strongest, yet the strongest would have spread their god regardless of his existence.
@AussiePolitics hey, fucking moron, have you ever heard of jesus christ? and do you consider even a little bit, that christianity was spread because of political purposes not by the jews? and that there was no christianity at the time of moses?
@giorgiv18 oh shut up you fuckwit, obviously i have heard of jesus but i was talking about the god of the old testament invented by the israelites. so you insult me and fucking change the topic well done dickhead.
@AussiePolitics you fucing moron, christianity means believing in the holy trinity, if ou know what that means. i'm not changing the topic, on the other hand, you are displaying the lack of knowledge.
@giorgiv18 you fuckwit i am well aware of the holy trinity, i am talking about events that occurred in the old testament and you want to change the topic to discuss jesus. I am talking about why god would have chosen to support a genocidal tribe in the desert and your response: "hey, fucking moron, have you ever heard of jesus christ?" what a fool.
@AussiePolitics and you are trying to use some parts of the bible against me by ripping them out from the context. your view of the world is to optimistic and idealistic. the god created the world and gave us freedom of choice to do whatever we wanted, but warned us our actons would have consequences. so everything you don't like in the bible is due to man's sinister nature. god just cose the best option out of all the savages in the world. i mean it was thousands of years ago you stupid fuck
@giorgiv18 my view of the world is optimistic? no, I know that baby killings happen. HOWEVER is it too much to ask that the source of morality kind of be OPPOSED to baby killing and not support groups that do it? as soon as people like you defend the murder of helpless babies I can tell just how much religion fucks people's minds up and how detrimental it is. like i said before, no-one kills more happily than one believing they work for god. i bet the israelites smiled as they stabbed babies.
@AussiePolitics a statement you'll never proove. and also, now babykilling happens then think how much used to happen at the time of moses. name if there were any, who did not and i'll gladly agree with you.
@giorgiv18 actually they believed god was directing them to commit genocides so i bet they must have felt joyous thinking god was on their side. kind of removes the morality out of war when you believe child murdering has been ordered by your god.
@AussiePolitics and what prove do you have they did? i mean it's only writtn in numbers 31 that god told moses to avenge the dead israelians those have killed for generations and didn't even consider them as human beings. and besides, there was another reason for their killing. the escalation of course they would be angry at jews, so to avoid more bloodshed they had to be killed. the monguls scavanged the half of civilized world just because the chinese took their fields. and what whould they do
@giorgiv18 oh I see! so you're defending baby killing by saying that when god wants genocide done, he wants it done right. rather than being a peaceful god he says go kill everyone and the babies so we dont have to come back again. so yet again i ask you, what is the difference between your god and one invented by a bloodthirsty tribe in the desert who was the strongest and spread their invented god to the minority of people they didnt kill.
@giorgiv18 bullshit, you are just another brainwashed christian who thinks all the other gods but yours were invented. if you had been born into a muslim family right now you would be talking about allah.
a tribe in the desert invented a god, just like thousands of others and used it to justify genocides. tell me, where is your proof that god is any different than the others? your logic that god let them win is laughable. the strongest most bloodthirsty tribe would always have won.
@AussiePolitics if the tribe just invented a god, then why were there so much prophets? why are tere so many documanted facts of miracles? why is there the holy fire coming from the christ's grave? now you sound like an angry monkey who's out of arguments.
@giorgiv18 "documanted facts of miracles" HAHAHAHAHAHA LOL you really are brainwashed aren't you? facts? bullshit show me proof. the bible couldn't even get the roman census or herods baby killing right.
@AussiePolitics do you know anything about the holy fire every easter? do you know anything about სვეტიცხოველი- the lifegiving pole or something, i don't know the english corresponding. you and people like you are looking for some flashy miraculous proofs and fai to see the everyday proof of god's existance, like happy coinidences.
@giorgiv18 the holy fire? that is your definition of a miracle? lol notice how the amount of time the pilgrims can withstand the fire can be achieved with any fire? what you are doing is acting like a magic trick or pious fraud is done by a god. come back with real proof, not bullshit.
@AussiePolitics then how does it appear to begin with? you know there is a spesific ritual that only the partiarch of constantinopol can read the prayer and the fire'll only come to him. many wanted it to come to them, but when the fire didn't they declared it a fraud, because that would proove their point of view was wrong. besides, this phenomenon has undergone so many tests, by now it would've been prooved it's a fraud.
@giorgiv18 Michael Kalopoulos performed live on television the exact same trick the priests do by dipping candles in white phosphorus and they spontaneously ignited in 20 minutes with NO FLAME. this technique has been well known for centuries. there are countless ways this fraud could have been achieved and it is laughable that you believe that the creator of the universe pops down every year to start a fire.
@AussiePolitics this way he shows us that second coming has not started yet. i know aboutmichael kolopolus and that the trick was well known, the only thing i'm surprised at is that gregorians wanted really badly for the fire to coma down to them, but it didn't happen. why ddn't they use phosporus?
@giorgiv18 there are a lot of ways the trick can be achieved and it proves nothing about a supernatural being lighting fires. oh and really if thats your definition of your god performing miracles its kind of pathetic.
we know certain chemicals can ignite spontaneously so yet again you have failed to demonstrate any magic.
@giorgiv18 they have demonstrated how it can be done with one chemical and there are undoubtedly many more. the point is that it can be done and done easily, no god required, its just another case of fraud and its laughable how you believe that your god has nothing better to do each year than light fire.
@giorgiv18 actually they have done it with white phosphorous, like i said. you are so superstitious you attribute ANYTHING you dont understand to god. come back with REAL proof, not priests committing pious fraud.
@giorgiv18 i was referring to your country when i made that comment about your king. its both fraud you dickhead. i really do find it funny how a superstitious, brainwashed fool is calling me stupid while defending the belief that your god lights a fire every year.
@AussiePolitics i'm telling you that the fire only comes to the patriarch of jerusalem, or only he lights it, as you say, but then what i ask is, why was the trick not used by other patriarchs, when the patriatch of jerusalem was absent? after all, it was a powerful weapon to "brainwash" people.
@giorgiv18 so even though we know how to do it with ordinary chemicals your excuse as to why its a miracle is that people would have copied it? the priests were probably the first ones to discover it and kept it a secret and became famous and made a lot of money out of it. other religious groups would have come up with their own 'miracles' to attract the faithful.
@giorgiv18 they have demonstrated that there are very easy NATURAL ways to get a fire to ignite without a flame and you still believe it is a miracle because you dont understand how its done? you sound like a child who hears a noise in the night and doesnt know what it is so its a ghost. come back with REAL proof. again i find it hilarious how your god has nothing better to do than light a magic fire every year.
@AussiePolitics and yes, i understand everything, every stinking method there is to ignate the fire, i understand more about chemistry, then you ever will. and yet, the fact remains that neither can i prove my gd exists, nor you that he doesn't so fuck off. and name the things god should do to convince you in his existance instead of beating around the bloody bush
@giorgiv18 not likely considering I have a science degree so I bet i understand chemistry a lot better than you, you arrogant fool. "so fuck off" so basically you're so terrified of anyone questioning your faith you want them to go away. i can disprove your messiah: the gospels contain many lies such as herods baby killing. they were not written at the time nor by people who were there. you obviously believe because you have been brainwashed to do so, because there is no proof at all.
@AussiePolitics no, i never was brainwashed by anyone, i just want you away, because your stubbornness irritates me. because you keep repeating the same old thing, when you yourself don't know weater those are lies or not. and because you understand everything staightforward and because you have no knowledge of such phenomenon as the tunnel effect( it's from physics).
@giorgiv18 only a brainwashed fool would believe something and expect others to believe it with NO PROOF. stop acting like you understand science because you obviously dont. in science it doesnt matter what you believe but WHY YOU BELIEVE IT. so if you believe bullshit stories with no proof because your mummy told you then you are obviously a brainwashed, stupid person.
@AussiePolitics my mummy is not a really religious person you know. i understand sience, because i have won some competitions moron, i'm the best at my school and try to learn beyond of what i know. but mostly your responses to me are off topic and make no sence.
@giorgiv18 oh hooray you're a child. stop acting like you understand anything about science, you might think you're clever now but I look back to senior science and laugh at how much they dumb it down compared to university. your mummy and your daddy told you christianity is true and you believed them, just like muslim children have the exact thing happen to them. when you get a child brainwashed they dont require evidence to believe.
@AussiePolitics parents never told me anything about weather the religion is true or not, my father just told me, when i asked, about several martyers tho were executed just because they didn't defy the religion, i then got interested in christianity and when i found out about it's teachings, i figured they worked for me and made sence. and as for the university, i've had private tutors beyond our schoolprogramm and they were mostly professors.not in every country school education sucks.
@giorgiv18 oh please you idiot you have so much to learn if you think you understand anything about science. ever heard of endosymbiosis, ever learned the exact chemical processes that occur during C3 C4 and CAM photosynthesis? i very much doubt it. i also doubt your parents never said anything about religion until you asked. i bet your mummy and daddy told you from birth that jesus was the son of god.
@AussiePolitics as a matter of fact, i have, although biology was never among y favourite subjects. i favoured physics and mathematics more. and if you doubt tha my parents nevertaught me about religion, that doesn't mean they did. and it's not about what they taught me, it's about whatmakes sence to me. i mean all these gods and religions really have something in common when you look at them. for me it's not about just christianity it's about my code ofethics, which i bet would terrify you.
@giorgiv18 right so you're shit at biology congratulations. and if you actually understood my statement before you would realise I was stating it was very unlikely your parents allowed you to make your mind up. you were obviously told from birth jesus was the son of god so dont bullshit me about making your own choice. you made a choice as much as any muslim does.
"ethics" you arrogant little shit, my own code of ethics does not excuse genocide so already im more ethical than you or your god.
@AussiePolitics i never said that, i just said, i like math and physics more. and you don't know what i was told from birth, don't make statements you can't prove, when you're so wroked up about proving. and your code of ethics, you big shit, doesn't comprise as much as mine or my god's. it's easy to speak when you live in a safe cosy environment, try to live like me, when there's no telling what happens next in my country. look up mixail saakashvili(president) and you'll understand.
@giorgiv18 congratulations, thank-you for proving my point. your excuse for believing is that you dont live in a safe place, so I guess you need the comfort of believing in an afterlife to get by. congratulations, enjoy your delusion if it makes you feel better, i prefer reality.
@AussiePolitics and again straightforward understanding. you'r reality is just as frail as mine. yes, religion is really comforting, but it is also empowering. have you ever tried praying? do you know how hard it is? i start remembering things i never would have. it's a lot of mental work. maybe just once in your life try to look at the god like universal motion, and the devil like disturbance in it. then maybe it will make sence to you, like it did to me. what do you think about fate?
@giorgiv18 what you are describing is the reason why god was invented. "oh no i dont understand how the universe works and im scared of dying" along comes a fraud "i do! its a being called god but you'll have to just believe on faith because i have no proof and god will punish you if you dont, but he's going to give you a magical land when you die". billions of people have prayed for thousands of years to thousands of different gods.
@AussiePolitics and yet new ones keep popping up. maybe you should admit that humanity needs a god. yes, it's another attempt to understand the universe around, but as long as it works, why not? and besides, there was no visible evidence of atoms, or fields, or the tunnel effect( it's when hydrogen burns into hellium at much less temperature, then needed and is used to "photograph" molecuses). ever existing. and who knows, maybe we'll find evidence of god's existance as well.
@giorgiv18 who says humanity needs a god? ive just spent the evening hearing you justify child murder in the name of your god so that hardly fills me with confidence a delusional belief is in the best interest of humanity.
god is a hypothesis, nothing more, so come back when you have some evidence, otherwise the only logical position to take is disbelief.
@AussiePolitics prove he does not and i will. and if you've spent the whole evening quarreling with me, you must have a lot of free time. i mean i was just in a mode for some argument, but you, you are a supertroll pal.
@giorgiv18 i find it amusing how i am a supertroll because I am not brainwashed into believing what my mummy and daddy told me.
prove he does not? i dont give a fuck what you believe, there are already plenty of stupid people in the world. see thats the difference between you and I, I require evidence before I accept a claim, you believe it just because your mum and dad said to.
@AussiePolitics the only difference between you and me is that i started believing because he answered my questions and i was able to "see" the god, while you stopped to believe just because it was forced down to you by your mummy and daddy and you didn't have the "eyes" to see him. i too don't care what you think either, because from my perspective you are the stupid one. so why not just leave each other and go on with our lives?
@giorgiv18 i do find it amusing to be accused of stupidity by someone who tells me they dont need evidence or facts to support their belief. they will just blindly go through their lives believing what their mummy told them. you really are no different to the brainwashed children in muslim families who think exactly as you do.
i stopped believing because as I have said repeatedly, all the evidence contradicts the gospels. you are the one too stupid to look at evidence
@AussiePolitics but you are the stupid one. you are too blind to "see" the god. and i accuse you of being stupid, because i've told you countless times that these arguments will take us nowhere, yet you continue to bug me.
@giorgiv18 I am too blind to see a god you only see because you have had a childhood of indoctrination? anyone can talk to one of the thousands of god humanity has invented if your parents tell you your whole life its completely true. you present no proof and expect people to convert to your religion? that is laughable. it makes sense how christians have to brainwash their children because no rational person with a real choice thinks "hmm there's no evidence but ill believe anyway"
@AussiePolitics and obviously too blind to read. how many times have i told you that my parents never told me anything about the religion. and how many times have i written that these arguments wold take us nowhere. and after that just what made you think i wanted you to convert to my religion? i just wanted you to share my point of view.
@giorgiv18 your parents obviously told you from birth that jesus was the son of god and you'd go to heaven if you believed in him. that is just as much brainwashing as it is in a muslim family when they say similar things about their own religion. or like i pointed out before did your parents never mention christianity at all? i find that hard to believe. you're right these arguments take us no-where because at the end of the day i am arguing with a brainwashed illogical child.
@AussiePolitics and i'm arguing with a cunt. i told you many many times: my parents never talked about christianity with me. they never said that i'd go to hell if i did not believe. i just came to like god, because i liked his teachings and i saw his ower everywhere. i found things my church teaches about how to live quite true and useful when it came to everyday life. so fuck off.
@giorgiv18 bullshit, you said before how your parents told you all about jesus being the messiah so you obviously did not come from a neutral background. you liked his teachings? like every muslim child brainwashed by their parent likes allahs teachings? you're just another sheep believing the myths of a primitive tribe in the desert because your mummy and daddy told you to.
@AussiePolitics well, congradulations. you've just proved that you are a total cunt. you call everything you don't like or think is nt likely bullshit. so how can anyone argue with you? and if you were not a total idiot, you'd stop arguing right now, by now you'd have understood none of us can prove that another's point of view is wrong. but you're here like a total jackass. no, calling you an idiot, stubborn fool or a jackass would be an insult to real ones. congradulations! bravo!
@giorgiv18 "you call everything you don't like or think is nt likely bullshit"
I call anything that someone claims is true without presenting any evidence at all bullshit. i also call the person who is making the claim a dumb fuck brainwashed by their mummy and daddy.
"none of us can prove that another's point of view is wrong" actually I have countless times, as I keep stating the number of mistakes in the gospels which were not even written by people who were there are laugable you fool.
@AussiePolitics so have i, you can't prove there is no god, neither can i that there is. besides, do you think i care what you say? you died for me as a person, when you said 10 commandements ammoral. you are just some spineless slimeball, who understands everything straightforard, who's knowledge of the subjectcomes mainly from internet, who ignores historical evidences. you never show respect for other people's believes. so why don't you shut the hell up and go on to live your pathetic life?
@giorgiv18 wow you really are brainwashed if you think the world works on disproving things. sorry you brainwashed fool but the burden of proof is always on the person making the claim.
yes the commandments are immoral if they equate working on the sabbath with murder. thats just disgusting.
my knowledge comes from the internet? no fuckit you dont even understand the history of your faith. the gospels mean shit all when they were not even written by people who were even there.
@AussiePolitics and where did you get the idea, working on sabbath is murder? working on sabbath is praying, a day you commit to the god, but then this day moved to sunday due to the christ rising on sunday. i do understand history of y faith and i see that it has made my people stronger. study history of georgia. and yes your knowledge comes from the internet: you even mixed leviticus with numbers. but as i said, fuck off. the world works on proving and disproving. don't ignore it.
@giorgiv18 you dickhead the commandments are supposed to be the ten worse sins and working on the sabbith is right next to murder. that is absolute bullshit to believe that working on that day is as bad as killing someone. i wrote down the wrong, verse reference but the content was completely correct and horrible.
"the world works on proving and disproving" yes dickhead. someone makes a claim like "there is a god" and they have to prove it. if they cant they're a brainwashed fool.
@giorgiv18 you know what people who are not brainwashed think when someone says that there is no proof for their beliefs but they believe anyway? BULLSHIT if someone makes that bullshit claim there is no reason to choose your religion over any other because they all say it. the point of god is to have faith we dont need proof because our mummy brainwashed us into believing! it must be lovely to live in your simple world where you believe whatever makes you feel good rather than what has evidence
@giorgiv18 "who ignores historical evidences" like what? bullshit claims made by superstitious kings? do you ignore the 'historical evidence' of the egpytians writing their pharoah was a god? logic tells us thats bullshit, just as logic tells us just because someone wrote something it doesnt prove it occurred. you are so brainwashed are terrified of thinking without the brainwashing of your mummy you keep lying about facts. fact: the gospels were not written by people who were there.
@AussiePolitics okay then. the torcher of saint habo was written by a man who was there. but do you know about it? no you don't, because you have not read it, and don't ignore the fact, you contradicted yourself when said 10 commandements were ammoral. for the note, very few are written by people who were there. and how many times do i have to say it, the idea of god's existance being proovable contradicts the entire philosophy.
@giorgiv18 when did i contradict myself when i said the commandments were immoral? i have said a number of times any set of laws that has murder equal to working on a certain day are bullshit.
"the idea of god's existance being proovable contradicts the entire philosophy" wow you mean your entire philosophy is based around being unprovable? that sounds no different than a philosophy someone made and said it was unprovable so they never had to prove anything, just brainwash stupid children.
@AussiePolitics my entire philosophy is based upon following your heart. my country has had more than one mmiracles in it's history. and u know what, i'll tel you how i see the god: there is a certain motion of sequences in the universe, that affects your decisions. and your and other people's actions affect that sequence. a man can follow that sequence to some degree, but not fully understand it, because it's too cmplex, like movement of molecules.
@giorgiv18 "following your heart" wow congratulations you just summed yourself up. "I'm a brainless fool who rather than basing my beliefs in facts and evidence believes whatever makes me feel nice". congratulations, unlike you I prefer to live in the real world where a pesky thing like facts and evidence are required to substantiate opinions.
sequences in the universe that affect our decisions? proof please, or are you talking more bullshit.
@giorgiv18 congratulations you just summed yourself up. you follow your heart "I believe what makes me feel good inside because my parents brainwashed me because I am a mindless beast too stupid to think and look for evidence". this is why the religious love getting children like you young, because they can drill into you that no-one needs facts or evidence to believe in something.
motion of sequences in the universe? sounds like more bullshit.
@AussiePolitics and, because human brain in't capable of understanding the sequence, words "fate" and "luck" were born to explain things around them, when actually they are results of human actions combined with universal motion, studied by science. if someone tries to understand it, they'll be free of fate, but when even your understanding of the world is not enough, your actions and universal motion will lead to something unredictable for you. and that's where god makes his move. i think.
@giorgiv18 stop making more bullshit claims and acting like science backs you up. show me a peer reviewed journal proving that the motion of sequences in the universe affect the way we think. you have no proof and need to stop believing any shit. this is why religion is bad for people, because once you get so stupid you think facts are not required to believe things ALL the bullshit in the world gets accepted in your mind.
@AussiePolitics that's not my idea, it's friedrich niezshe's. the quetion here is, if your responce to someone's action is determined by the nature of this action and preconseptions you've formed about hi/her. and if other's actions are determined by your interaction, then tho's the one making decision?
@giorgiv18 so you are quoting a philosopher, sorry that does not qualify as real evidence. your comment deals with REAL human interactions that we know for a fact are real. when you try to apply some supernatural background to it you have still provided no evidence for this supernatural being. all the religions think that their god is unprovable and working behind the scenes and none of them provide any evidence. so tell me why should anyone believe for logical reasons?
@AussiePolitics and let's define the universal motion of sequence. i don't mean some supernatural power, i mean physical ocurrences that are connected to each other, like the wind blowing, causing thermal changes in the atmosphere, causing us to change our clothes, or global warming, causing ice to melt, which itself causes floods in some countries.and i'll tell you later if you want, why(in at least orthodox christian's believes) god interacts with the wrold to begin with.
@giorgiv18 yes again you are using physical, natural events of which we have EVIDENCE for to try and prove something you have no evidence for: god. like you said, they are physical events we have evidence for. they do not have billions of people saying they are completely different things and saying you dont need evidence to believe them.
@AussiePolitics i'm not trying to prove anything, i'm just sharing my pont of view. do you not stand christianity so much, you refuse to respect other people's opinions?
@giorgiv18 i refuse to respect people who are so ignorant they excuse their belief without evidence by using their heart. even the jews have good points as to why jesus was not a messiah. did jesus bring in an age of world peace? no he did not. and what is the christian excuse? that will happen at the second coming. what bullshit im pretty sure if your god wrote the bible and said the messiah would do something he wouldnt change his mind and say 'but he'll do it later'
@AussiePolitics and again a flaw in your logic. according to the bible jesus did something, when he came to the world. by letting people torcher him, he opened the gates of heaven, which was sealed before. and according to bible he did not change the world by force, because he wanted us to make our own choice of how to live and then be sent to heaven or hell acordingly.
@giorgiv18 a flaw to my logic? did you even read what I bloody wrote? the messiah was prophesied to bring in an era of global world peace. jesus did not do this. why is it that your messiah failed at achieving the very prophesy he was supposed to fulfil?
@giorgiv18 tell me, why would an all knowing god say that his messiah would bring in an era of world peace and when the supposed messiah arrives he suddenly says 'yeah we've changed our minds im not going to do that anymore'. thats such a weak excuse, im afraid you missed the part about your god supposedly being ALL KNOWING yet thats a pretty major cock up to make. so either jesus is not the son of god or your god was wrong. which one is it?
@AussiePolitics none. there's one thing about prophecies- they're always vague. and what kind of bible are you talking about. i'm sorry, but does it sound different in english?
@giorgiv18 the prophesies of the messiah said he would bring the jews back to the land of israel Isaiah 43:5-6 and brin gin world peace Isaiah 2:4. jesus achieved NEITHER of these things, so again I ask was god wrong or was jesus not the messiah?
@AussiePolitics has it never been to you, that by theory of probability one outcome is more likely, but the other has to happen, either making your life easier, or harder? well, that's just it, in my opinion, god does not need flashy special effects to take some action, he just pushes a bit, where nobody'll notice and, by havind a full understanding the universal motion, get's the outcome he desires. so that's why proving his existance is unlikely, in my opinion. if you want, i'll tell you more.
@giorgiv18 no probability does not mean one thing has to happen, in fact that will not happen unless you have a probability of 1. i find it amusing how with the important things god goes around hiding and being subtle but you believe each year he goes around magically lighting fires. this is laughable. you have provided no proof at all, just stated what the brainwashed of every religion believe: their god is hiding and does things without people being able to notice.
@AussiePolitics i'm saying that when there are more than one possible outcomes of the same situation and one of them is the most probable, the other has to happen at the same time, when it was not likely to happen, and this other outcome has to either be of great help to you, or of great consequences. and you mix two things up, god sends the holy fire to earth only if the ritual is performed correctly. if not, the flames won't appear, that's why at some point they stopped appearing.
@giorgiv18 you do not understand probability if you think that one event HAS to happen at the same time as an other. I was not mixing them up, I was mocking you because you state how all the big things your god is not detectable but working behind the scenes but for something stupid like lighting a fire suddenly he's performing his magic. jesus was nothing more than a man. why did no-one notice him when he was alive? why did people only decide to write about his magic many years after he died?
@AussiePolitics i never said one event had to happen at the same time as another, i said one was more likely to happen, but another happened in it's place either benefiting us, or quite the contrary. and people did notice him when he was alive, because his pupils were sent to different parts ot the world, spreading his teachings. that's where the noton of an apostolic church comes from, aphostolic means one of his pupils brought it to a country in the first century.
scientology is retarded
mrhangslow2 1 month ago
Regardless of the subject matter, this is some pretty awesome editing. Nice job.
Also, fuck scientology.
Thankfully on a count in 2009 there were only 25,000 scientologists in USA
Grysham 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Prediction: David Miscavige will disappear, change his name and quit while he's able to take a substantial sum from this dwindling, sad cult.
TheAnonUK 3 months ago 2
oh yeah she spent money so she´s a hero now!
dumpasses!
XxpoooooofxX 5 months ago
@XxpoooooofxX
You spelled dumb wrong..
BioticBeach 4 months ago
@BioticBeach
foagiff my! ;)
XxpoooooofxX 4 months ago
so utterly disturbing...
iammovingtomexico 11 months ago
What I don't understand is when Lisa Mcpherson was in the hospital and scientologists came to take her away, why weren't they told by staff to "Get the hell out of here, she's not going anywhere as she doesn't seem to have consent on making her own decisions at this time. We are looking at her now to assess her ailment."
supermandan85 11 months ago
@supermandan85 stuff happens, and I'm sure the staff that didn't do as you suggest regret it to this day.....Scientologoists are trained in intimidation.....nice observation though....in a perfect world this would not have happened.....
michigananon 9 months ago
Comment removed
supermandan85 1 year ago
tom cruise at 00:25 ?
btw nice place they had built.
balderslash 1 year ago
tom cruise at 00:25 ?
balderslash 1 year ago
Scientology is very stupid , but is it more stupid than Christianity or Islam ? Read the Bible . Talk about some dumbass stories . We need to teach people how to objectively think things through . I tseems almost like public school teaches kids to blindly accept things as true . Half of the lessons in my gradeschool textbooks I now know te be false . Math is literally the only subject where we were not taught falsities . No wonder people fall for this crap , they are preprogrammed .
MindofaJedi 1 year ago
@MindofaJedi the reason why people who are scientologists are more stupid than christians and muslims is because at least the christians and muslims were brainwashed from birth to believe. scientologists made an actual conscious decision to believe this bullshit
AussiePolitics 10 months ago
@AussiePolitics interesting observation
michigananon 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics and you were brainwashed from birth not to believe.think fist next time you insult at least the thirdth of the planet
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 nope, I was brainwashed from birth like most people to be a christian so don't make comments of things you know nothing of. i call it brainwashing when christians and muslims tell their children if they dont believe they will burn for all eternity. thats call child abuse.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics withdrawn. and they actually did that? i mean in my country christianity was more like the second frontier of ideological war to keep our nation from falling apart, so many people are christians because it's a matter of being a patriot. and nobody tells children in my country they'll burn in hell. here god is part of our everyday life, so people subconciously believe even if they don't want to.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 i disagree that religion holds a nation together, in fact the nations with the highest amount of murders, conflict etc are those with the highest level of secular citizens. you speak as a believe when you say that people subconsciously must believe in something because a lot of people do. however its a bit odd to suggest that people who dont believe in god do believe in god because others do.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics there were persians, romans, then again persians, then arabs, later turks, then monguls from temuchin's empire, later monguls called white-fur, or something, later osmalos, after that again persians and after that russians again and again. and every time they conquered our land, they began to opress our church. so it just happened. 100,000 people in 13th century were executed, because they didn't defy christianity and accept islam. study history of georgia and you'll see.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 i think you'll find if you study history that christians have been just as good at mass murders of the 'heathens' as the muslims have been. they have killed each other for thousands of years so that doesn't really prove anything about religion holding a nation together, if anything it shows how it builds hatred between different groups.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics i'm neither a catholic, nor a protestant, i follow georgian orthodox church. if you're talking about crusades, the only time there were crusaders in georgia, was in 1121 and it was a war to free my country. besides, there was nothing religious about those wars, it was merely a decoy for nonwealthy aristocrats to search for money. if you to study history, you'll see that there was first flow of commoners and thugs seeking wealth even before the wars started.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 right and all the religious propaganda that was used to send thousands of soldiers to take back the 'holy lands' had nothing at all to do with religion? the massacres of thousands of muslims was non-reliigous? next you'll be telling me the spanish inquisition was non-religious as well. christians and muslims who conquer other nations have an equally nasty habit of killing people who did not believe the same things they did.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics oh, come on now. it's always about money. what about indulgence? sins for money. kiling your wife-14 gold pieces, raping a woman- 7 gold pieces. there's always a hidden motive.they said they wanted to baptise indians, but their gold was the only thing they wanted. i'm telling you that there were many knights without lands seeking wealth. nothing more. if not so, why did they attack constantinopol? study history a little more and then talk.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 maybe some of the spanish in america were interested in gold but they got funded by the church because they were writing back and stating explicitly how they were converting or killing heathens. the spanish inquisition and the burnings of catholics and protestants in england for century occurred for no other reason than religion. the crusades would never have happened without religion to justify them because they all believed they were doing gods work.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics oh, come on now. dno't believe everything they write. of course they would do so to justify themselves, but that was not their true motive. have you ever read the fall of tenochtitlan"? what do you really know about cortes? why did colombus travel to america to begin with? money! the spanish funded him in search of wealth. no matter what you say, without any set of rules any ideology will turn into somthing terrible due to man's sinister nature.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
they received vast amounts of finance from the catholic church and they wrote back to them describing all the heathens they were killing or converting. they also justified their immoral behaviour through their belief that as they were heathens they were lesser beings. no-one kills someone else more joyfully and with less guilt than when they do it in the name of their religion. are you really arguing that the massacres of the inquisition and the crusades were not motivated at all by religion?
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics yes, i say it was merely a strive for money and power, but it was justified by religion. and no one cared about religion, just power. if not so, christian religion would not split into orthodox and catholics. for the note, one major difference is, that the head of catholic church is the pope, while head of orthodox church is god. and protestantism was just a child of landowners, who wanted to expand their wealth by adding the churches land's to their own. read more books.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 right and the inquisition was just for money and power too? because the christians were the ones with all the money and power and they tortured and killed the weak on the slightest suspicion of being heathens. im sure a catholic would have something to say about the claim you made about god only being the head of the orthodox church, the fact that christianity split up shows more that people used it to believe whatever they wanted and made them feel good.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics i never said god was only head of orthodox church, i just stressed they idealise the title of pope to ranks of god. and i never said spanish inquisition was for money, or power, i just named crusades and spahish expeditions to america. and at some point you are right, when you say people used it to believe whatever made them feel good. but the fact remains that christianity became an essential part of my county's everyday life.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics and georgia never justified any of it's conquers with religious motives. only defensive wars. and,my country has had wars that no other country will ever imagine, i mean mostly odds were 5 to 1 us not even having arthilery, but we still made it through and that's because we treasured three things: our homeland, our native language and our religion. and no incompetent uneducated moron three thousand miles away will convince me that we treasured religion for nothing.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 wow and now you get nasty. I do find it rather amusing to be called incompetent and uneducated when I understand more about the writings the conquistadores did to get money from the church to kill heathens. you know what? statistically speaking the number of people who change their religion during their lifetime is virtually nil. we are brainwashed into faith and only one extremely brainwashed would have such a narrow world view.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics you seem like a nice guy, but you've been severely cornered, that's why you wuestion my views.i'm neither narowminded, nor brainwashed by anybody. i don't go to church, so how am i brainwashed?and i don't go there, because my neighbour's intelectual and spiritual needs are far below than mine. it would be great, if we could talk facetoface, but that seems impossible. so i'll just tell you:weather you believe or not, faith makes people stronger.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 leviticus 31:17 "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. but all the women and children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
there you go, you accuse me of being cornered yet your own bible describes how your god directed the genocide and murder of children. i accuse you of being brainwashed because if you had been born into islam you'd be talking about allah right now.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics not leviticus, numbers. if i recall corectly, these were words said by moses. and note that christianity is not like: no sin that cant be forgiven', to gain repentance, you must truly be sorry for your sins, otherwise the punishment will be severe. children are punished for the sins of their parents, just like your and mine will be for ours. all to motivate us more to be more religious. a question: what do you think of the holy fire?
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 you think it is moral for a god to order the murder of innocent children? how is that justice to be responsible for something you have had absolutely nothing to do with? what you are defending is genocide. i am sorry but unlike christinaity my morality does not excuse the murder of children.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics god is someone who defines what's morality. even if you don't like it, it won't change. and physical termination has nothing to do with immorality, assuming you believe in afterlife. people are responsible for their actions and not only theirs. as for your morale, it is just a facade to conceal what you really are, because every human is capable of something rerrible. everything god does, happens for a reason you may, or may not understand. god is perfect.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 god is perfect? im afraid i would not describe a being who orders the murder of children a perfect being. more like a bloodthirsty monster. you say god defines morality so then there is no such thing as an action being good in and of itself? if god decides to change his morality again to allow baby killing like he used to then then your morality is not absolute. people are responsible for their actions? what actions had children done which justified their slaughter?
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics you fucking moron, didn't you see, what i said? death is only physical termination. this world exists to give us a choice, what path to take, so death's not as frightening as you imagine. besides, i said that in the bible those are moses'(not god's) words and it was tactically correct to avoid any further escalation and bloodshed. you talk as if god will sease existing just because people stop believing in him.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 avoid further escalation? how much further can you escalate it then killing children and stealing their virgins? you do realise you are trying to justify genocide here, which kind of shows what belief in god does to people's morality. gods existence has nothing to do with belief, humanity has invented thousands of gods and raised their children to believe and you are no different. like i said before, if you had been born into a muslim family i bet you'd be talking about allah now.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics in the bible it's only written that god told moses to avenge his people. it's moses who orders that genocide. and further escalation: you kill their parents, they grow up, they are pissed and have a lust for vengeance. there's your escalation. i'm not saying i like it, but i think it was the best option out. and all in all, this is the old part of the bible, not what jesus taught us to do. study religion more and then we'll talk.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 study religion more? I have studied enough of it to see the horrible genocides described in the bible at gods order. all the children that were killed in his name. and you think this bloodthirsty beast is a source of morality? that is laughable. tell you what, anyone who believes that the murder of children is never justified is instantly a more ethical being than your god.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics first of all, you don't understand the concept of afterlife and why were we born to this world to begin with. you understand everything straightforward. and second, i'm telling you that god is not the plot of human's imagination. i have studied various religions: zoroastrizm, islam, buddism, and when i looked at how they originated, i came to conclusion that christianity was the only thruthful religion. your sence of morale is earthly, unable to understand high concepts.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 oh and I find it amusing how you decided that christianity was correct after 'studying' the other ones. tell me, why does the bible lie when it says there was a roman census across the whole empire? that NEVER HAPPENED. also why does it lie about herods baby killing? funny how no-one else seemed to notice it happening nor was there a sudden spike in childrens graves. interesting how suddenly these huge events were made up in the gospels written decades after jesus existed.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics and no matter what you saw, if you don't turn your brain on and think why this or that happened, you'll only jump to conclusions. just because you don't like the divine punishment, nothing will change. these genocides were intended to show future generations the consequences of their actions, so they don't do anything stupid. broaden your view, understand the philosophy. until then i don't wish to hear anything from someone as twisted, dumb, stupid and arrogant as you.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 oh i see, so according to your religion baby killing is justified if it will teach people a lesson then is it? you call me twisted and dumb yet you are the one defending genocide and the murder of children. i think its your religion that has severely twisted your sense of morality.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 surely moral alarm bells must go off in your head when you read about your god ordering people to murder babies. sorry but baby killing kind of rules you out of being a great moral being. in terms of scale and cruel killings, your god really is worse than hitler.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics how many times do i have to say it, you sir, are most hard headed man i've ever seen. you understand everything(if there's anything you understand) straightforward. what does bible say about man's origin? what does it say, why are we in this world? if you pay ore attention you will understand. your view is limited to that you have in front of you. yes, my moral alarm did go off, but quickly went off, when i thought about it.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 yep it quickly went off because that is what religion does, turns you into people who believe that genocide and infanticide can be justified. it is sickening. you live in a simplistic world brushing off all the genocides as just being gods right
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics you are so comfortable in your cosy habitat. there's no telling in what kind of monster you'll turn into, if something bad happens. you have no right to speak about morality, unless you are the etalon yourself. worse than hitler. so what about the devil. do you prefer to go to the devil? what i'm getting to is that either way you are fucked. you have a choice between god you don't like and devil and i assure you, if you don't choose god, you choose the devil.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 tell me, how many children has the devil murdered compared to god? i see genocides and child murder against gods name, please tell me where in the bible it ever shows the devil doing worse things. its kind of sad how in gods own book he comes off as the real bloodthirsty monster.
what kind of monster i would turn into? well i cant see child murder ever helping anyone no matter how shitting a situation you get in.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics aha! i knew you would say that. that's the whole point. it's not written, because devil doesn't do it himself. he provokes, tempts, makes others do ditry work and if you fall for it, he wins. for the notice there's no stalin's signature on any of execution orders, but tell me he didn't have enybody executed. and in a shitty situation you could ignore a child dying just to get several seconds of more air, or several gramms of food.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 right, tell me when the devil performed genocides, killed every human on the planet bar a few, wrote laws for people to be stoned to death. oh wait millions many of them innocent child at the hands of your god. so we have god committing genocides and the devil is evil because he "tempts"? wow i can really tell who the monster is.
i would ignore a child dying? not exactly what we are talking about. we are talking about the calculated murder of many defenceless children for NO reason.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics i new you were a narrow minded cunt, but didn't expect this even from you. was it god who started world wars? was it god who started crusades, or conquered and killed indiand? was it god that started spanish inquisition? or was it the devil in the form of greed, anger, lust for power. and if god orders to inocent kill children, he makes sure they don't go to hell. when devil tempts people, thousands and millions die and many go to hell.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 right i am getting called a narrow minded cunt by a person trying to defend child murder. wow this is how religion twists people minds, i really do pity you.
do you have any proof it was the devil who started all the wars in human history? because all the wars and genocides in the bible appear to be directly due to god. how about this, when the devil drowns every human in existence and murders a few children I'll call them both about even.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics okay. i give up. there's no way to fix that twisted mind of yours and if there is, it's not within my powers. and tell you what: the bible tells us that devil represents rage, anger, sloth, lust, egoism everything you wouldn't like in a human. if not these qualities produce wars then what does? and i am repeating the same thing over and over again, but you ignore it all the time, so yes, you are a narrowminded cunt.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 you call me twisted yet when you make an objective reading of the bible its god who is the one murdering children, not the devil. you call me a narrow minded cunt yet you are so brainwashed you actually believe that infanticide is ok if your god says so. thats what religion does to morality.
'produce wars' well god certainly was good at the genocide part of things and he's supposed to be good and righteous. frustrating isnt it trying to spread your delusions of a monster.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics just live me alone will you. you just don't understand, don't believe and that's your problem. i'm telling you that this life is nothing. it is only a test a chance to return to the garden of eden. and if god wants to take you to garden of eden, it's okay. and the word kill is only termination of one man by another man, not god. and the numbers 31:17-18 it's moses who tells children to do so, not the god.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 you're right, i dont understand nor believe why an all mighty god would choose a primitive tribe in the desert who murdered children and committed genocides to be his chosen people. i dont understand how anyone in their right mind can excuse the murder of babies like it is no big deal. you know how much religion fucks people up? last time i spoke to someone like you i asked them if they would stab a baby in the head if their god asked. they said yes.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics the point is if their god asks. you do you know the story of abraham and a lamb? your problem is that you don't believe in afterlife, divine punishment, or anything else. what do you not agree with, that you shold not kill a man, or that you should respect your parents, or you shouldn't lie. god did not order murder of children and there's no holy war in newer part of the bible, it was moses, who exagerated the orders. that's why god gave people those ten commandements.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 yes I know the story, and it is also horrible. god told him to kill his son to test his faith. wow talk about a vindictive monster. it was all moses? well then I ask why was god backing a tribe who went around committing genocides? why did god choose a child murderer to be his messenger? most of the ten commandments are not even ethical at all. tell me since when is murder equal to holding the sabbath holy?
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics you are stuped. jumping from one silly argument to another. you think of got like a grumpy old man, like norgan freeman, who its on his throne somwhere in the sky and is looking down at us from his giant magnifying glass. you say what, but never ask why. so even if you reply to this, i'm not going to respond or even read it. you've already wasted enough of my time and patience. have a nice day
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 yep another christian so brainwashed they run away as soon as they get asked a few hard questions about the ethics of their religion. i never said god was an old man in the sky. i asked why would he choose out of all the people on the planet a tribe who murders babies and commits genocides and then actively encourages them to kill and take over lands? your god is a bloodthirsty monster and you are too brainwashed to see. this is how religion fucks people up.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics i don't run away bum, i just can't make you understand what you are supposed to believe. he chose out of all people in the world jews, because he knew they had what it takes to spread the religion. and god ordered to kill the entire nation, because they were to fucked up to listen, commited crimes,although were warned, so he punished the entire nation to show as an example. but that's my own opinion.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 you cant make any rational person not brainwashed into your religion believe that a moral being would choose a child murdering, germicidal tribe to be his people. here's a hint for your god: next time you choose your 'people' choose ones who dont kill babies.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics name the tribe who don't, and have the guts to spread god's words. i told you it happenet thousands of years ago, when there were different standarts for morality. and it was a one time thing. and with all that your right mind you couldn't understand something that simple. bravo. i applaud the critical thinking that godlessnes induces.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 name one tribe that didnt? well i bet any tribe that actually behaved in an ethical, peaceful way probably had all their babies killed and were conquered by 'gods' people. so i guess im asking too much when i hold 'gods' people to a standard that includes not committing genocides?
oh and I thought christians believe in absolute morality, but apparently morality changes according to gods mood.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics and what tribe would behave in an ethical way back then more than 3000 years ago? there was no sence of morality. and the meaning of morality doesn't change with god's mood. it changes by our level of development. when you go to the church for the first time nobody asks you to behave almost instantly, they tip you off. but if you know how to beave but don't, you are told to leave. and for the note, this is analogy, something you don't very well understand.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 this is rather amusing because supposedly the bonus of having a god is a sense of absolute morality, so many christians would completely disagree with you. what you are saying is god didnt care about supporting ethical people, he supported the strongest. thats circular logic you realise. they won because they had god but god only supported them as they were the strongest. apparently god isnt interested in helping the peaceful or the moral.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics no i say god supported them because they were of the best morale at that time. because if you read the bible a bit more, you see that jews of mose's generation were not worthy of being supported. they were not strong enough to survive.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 so yet again i ask, is it too much to ask your god support peaceful people to spread his message? you CLAIM they were too weak to survive yet every civilisation throughout history has said their invented god helped the win wars and ordered killings. tell me how are the israelites ANY different? what proof do you have that THEIR god is the real one.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics and once agai i tell you to read the bible you fucking moron. it's all a test, don't you see? i bet you just googled bible and violence together and that's all your knowledge. and i'm telling you to show me a peaceful tribe back then 3000 years ago. the jews were slaves at that time, the most relatively peaceful people on the planet.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 actually like i said I used to be a christian before I actually started looking for evidence of your faith and found that there was none. they were relatively peaceful until god chose them? what and then god turned them into bloodthirsty savages? bullshit, they were a tribe in the desert who invented a god and they happened to kill more people than the others and spread their religion. show me proof that your god is any different to the others.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics to whom may i ask?
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 oh and by the way, you're acting like a patronising dickhead now. tell me, you say god chose the israelites because they had the best chance of spreading his word by going around committing genocides. so tell me, how is that any different between the made up god of the strongest tribe who went around performing genocides? you say he supported them because they were the strongest, yet the strongest would have spread their god regardless of his existence.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics hey, fucking moron, have you ever heard of jesus christ? and do you consider even a little bit, that christianity was spread because of political purposes not by the jews? and that there was no christianity at the time of moses?
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 oh shut up you fuckwit, obviously i have heard of jesus but i was talking about the god of the old testament invented by the israelites. so you insult me and fucking change the topic well done dickhead.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics you fucing moron, christianity means believing in the holy trinity, if ou know what that means. i'm not changing the topic, on the other hand, you are displaying the lack of knowledge.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
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@giorgiv18 you fuckwit i am well aware of the holy trinity, i am talking about events that occurred in the old testament and you want to change the topic to discuss jesus. I am talking about why god would have chosen to support a genocidal tribe in the desert and your response: "hey, fucking moron, have you ever heard of jesus christ?" what a fool.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics and you are trying to use some parts of the bible against me by ripping them out from the context. your view of the world is to optimistic and idealistic. the god created the world and gave us freedom of choice to do whatever we wanted, but warned us our actons would have consequences. so everything you don't like in the bible is due to man's sinister nature. god just cose the best option out of all the savages in the world. i mean it was thousands of years ago you stupid fuck
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 my view of the world is optimistic? no, I know that baby killings happen. HOWEVER is it too much to ask that the source of morality kind of be OPPOSED to baby killing and not support groups that do it? as soon as people like you defend the murder of helpless babies I can tell just how much religion fucks people's minds up and how detrimental it is. like i said before, no-one kills more happily than one believing they work for god. i bet the israelites smiled as they stabbed babies.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics a statement you'll never proove. and also, now babykilling happens then think how much used to happen at the time of moses. name if there were any, who did not and i'll gladly agree with you.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 actually they believed god was directing them to commit genocides so i bet they must have felt joyous thinking god was on their side. kind of removes the morality out of war when you believe child murdering has been ordered by your god.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics and what prove do you have they did? i mean it's only writtn in numbers 31 that god told moses to avenge the dead israelians those have killed for generations and didn't even consider them as human beings. and besides, there was another reason for their killing. the escalation of course they would be angry at jews, so to avoid more bloodshed they had to be killed. the monguls scavanged the half of civilized world just because the chinese took their fields. and what whould they do
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 oh I see! so you're defending baby killing by saying that when god wants genocide done, he wants it done right. rather than being a peaceful god he says go kill everyone and the babies so we dont have to come back again. so yet again i ask you, what is the difference between your god and one invented by a bloodthirsty tribe in the desert who was the strongest and spread their invented god to the minority of people they didnt kill.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics mine was not invented.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 bullshit, you are just another brainwashed christian who thinks all the other gods but yours were invented. if you had been born into a muslim family right now you would be talking about allah.
a tribe in the desert invented a god, just like thousands of others and used it to justify genocides. tell me, where is your proof that god is any different than the others? your logic that god let them win is laughable. the strongest most bloodthirsty tribe would always have won.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics if the tribe just invented a god, then why were there so much prophets? why are tere so many documanted facts of miracles? why is there the holy fire coming from the christ's grave? now you sound like an angry monkey who's out of arguments.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 "documanted facts of miracles" HAHAHAHAHAHA LOL you really are brainwashed aren't you? facts? bullshit show me proof. the bible couldn't even get the roman census or herods baby killing right.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics do you know anything about the holy fire every easter? do you know anything about სვეტიცხოველი- the lifegiving pole or something, i don't know the english corresponding. you and people like you are looking for some flashy miraculous proofs and fai to see the everyday proof of god's existance, like happy coinidences.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 the holy fire? that is your definition of a miracle? lol notice how the amount of time the pilgrims can withstand the fire can be achieved with any fire? what you are doing is acting like a magic trick or pious fraud is done by a god. come back with real proof, not bullshit.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics then how does it appear to begin with? you know there is a spesific ritual that only the partiarch of constantinopol can read the prayer and the fire'll only come to him. many wanted it to come to them, but when the fire didn't they declared it a fraud, because that would proove their point of view was wrong. besides, this phenomenon has undergone so many tests, by now it would've been prooved it's a fraud.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 Michael Kalopoulos performed live on television the exact same trick the priests do by dipping candles in white phosphorus and they spontaneously ignited in 20 minutes with NO FLAME. this technique has been well known for centuries. there are countless ways this fraud could have been achieved and it is laughable that you believe that the creator of the universe pops down every year to start a fire.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics this way he shows us that second coming has not started yet. i know aboutmichael kolopolus and that the trick was well known, the only thing i'm surprised at is that gregorians wanted really badly for the fire to coma down to them, but it didn't happen. why ddn't they use phosporus?
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 there are a lot of ways the trick can be achieved and it proves nothing about a supernatural being lighting fires. oh and really if thats your definition of your god performing miracles its kind of pathetic.
we know certain chemicals can ignite spontaneously so yet again you have failed to demonstrate any magic.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics then why didn't they do it?
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 they have demonstrated how it can be done with one chemical and there are undoubtedly many more. the point is that it can be done and done easily, no god required, its just another case of fraud and its laughable how you believe that your god has nothing better to do each year than light fire.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics then i'm asking why didn't they do it. because it may not be a fraud?
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 actually they have done it with white phosphorous, like i said. you are so superstitious you attribute ANYTHING you dont understand to god. come back with REAL proof, not priests committing pious fraud.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics i'm speaking about gregorians not the patriarch of jerusalim. and you don't understand why i call you stupid after this.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 i was referring to your country when i made that comment about your king. its both fraud you dickhead. i really do find it funny how a superstitious, brainwashed fool is calling me stupid while defending the belief that your god lights a fire every year.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics i'm telling you that the fire only comes to the patriarch of jerusalem, or only he lights it, as you say, but then what i ask is, why was the trick not used by other patriarchs, when the patriatch of jerusalem was absent? after all, it was a powerful weapon to "brainwash" people.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 so even though we know how to do it with ordinary chemicals your excuse as to why its a miracle is that people would have copied it? the priests were probably the first ones to discover it and kept it a secret and became famous and made a lot of money out of it. other religious groups would have come up with their own 'miracles' to attract the faithful.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics no they were not, had you read the article in wikipedia a bit more attentively, you would've known.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 they have demonstrated that there are very easy NATURAL ways to get a fire to ignite without a flame and you still believe it is a miracle because you dont understand how its done? you sound like a child who hears a noise in the night and doesnt know what it is so its a ghost. come back with REAL proof. again i find it hilarious how your god has nothing better to do than light a magic fire every year.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics and yes, i understand everything, every stinking method there is to ignate the fire, i understand more about chemistry, then you ever will. and yet, the fact remains that neither can i prove my gd exists, nor you that he doesn't so fuck off. and name the things god should do to convince you in his existance instead of beating around the bloody bush
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 not likely considering I have a science degree so I bet i understand chemistry a lot better than you, you arrogant fool. "so fuck off" so basically you're so terrified of anyone questioning your faith you want them to go away. i can disprove your messiah: the gospels contain many lies such as herods baby killing. they were not written at the time nor by people who were there. you obviously believe because you have been brainwashed to do so, because there is no proof at all.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics no, i never was brainwashed by anyone, i just want you away, because your stubbornness irritates me. because you keep repeating the same old thing, when you yourself don't know weater those are lies or not. and because you understand everything staightforward and because you have no knowledge of such phenomenon as the tunnel effect( it's from physics).
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 only a brainwashed fool would believe something and expect others to believe it with NO PROOF. stop acting like you understand science because you obviously dont. in science it doesnt matter what you believe but WHY YOU BELIEVE IT. so if you believe bullshit stories with no proof because your mummy told you then you are obviously a brainwashed, stupid person.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics my mummy is not a really religious person you know. i understand sience, because i have won some competitions moron, i'm the best at my school and try to learn beyond of what i know. but mostly your responses to me are off topic and make no sence.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 oh hooray you're a child. stop acting like you understand anything about science, you might think you're clever now but I look back to senior science and laugh at how much they dumb it down compared to university. your mummy and your daddy told you christianity is true and you believed them, just like muslim children have the exact thing happen to them. when you get a child brainwashed they dont require evidence to believe.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics parents never told me anything about weather the religion is true or not, my father just told me, when i asked, about several martyers tho were executed just because they didn't defy the religion, i then got interested in christianity and when i found out about it's teachings, i figured they worked for me and made sence. and as for the university, i've had private tutors beyond our schoolprogramm and they were mostly professors.not in every country school education sucks.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 oh please you idiot you have so much to learn if you think you understand anything about science. ever heard of endosymbiosis, ever learned the exact chemical processes that occur during C3 C4 and CAM photosynthesis? i very much doubt it. i also doubt your parents never said anything about religion until you asked. i bet your mummy and daddy told you from birth that jesus was the son of god.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics as a matter of fact, i have, although biology was never among y favourite subjects. i favoured physics and mathematics more. and if you doubt tha my parents nevertaught me about religion, that doesn't mean they did. and it's not about what they taught me, it's about whatmakes sence to me. i mean all these gods and religions really have something in common when you look at them. for me it's not about just christianity it's about my code ofethics, which i bet would terrify you.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 right so you're shit at biology congratulations. and if you actually understood my statement before you would realise I was stating it was very unlikely your parents allowed you to make your mind up. you were obviously told from birth jesus was the son of god so dont bullshit me about making your own choice. you made a choice as much as any muslim does.
"ethics" you arrogant little shit, my own code of ethics does not excuse genocide so already im more ethical than you or your god.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics i never said that, i just said, i like math and physics more. and you don't know what i was told from birth, don't make statements you can't prove, when you're so wroked up about proving. and your code of ethics, you big shit, doesn't comprise as much as mine or my god's. it's easy to speak when you live in a safe cosy environment, try to live like me, when there's no telling what happens next in my country. look up mixail saakashvili(president) and you'll understand.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 congratulations, thank-you for proving my point. your excuse for believing is that you dont live in a safe place, so I guess you need the comfort of believing in an afterlife to get by. congratulations, enjoy your delusion if it makes you feel better, i prefer reality.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics and again straightforward understanding. you'r reality is just as frail as mine. yes, religion is really comforting, but it is also empowering. have you ever tried praying? do you know how hard it is? i start remembering things i never would have. it's a lot of mental work. maybe just once in your life try to look at the god like universal motion, and the devil like disturbance in it. then maybe it will make sence to you, like it did to me. what do you think about fate?
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 what you are describing is the reason why god was invented. "oh no i dont understand how the universe works and im scared of dying" along comes a fraud "i do! its a being called god but you'll have to just believe on faith because i have no proof and god will punish you if you dont, but he's going to give you a magical land when you die". billions of people have prayed for thousands of years to thousands of different gods.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics and yet new ones keep popping up. maybe you should admit that humanity needs a god. yes, it's another attempt to understand the universe around, but as long as it works, why not? and besides, there was no visible evidence of atoms, or fields, or the tunnel effect( it's when hydrogen burns into hellium at much less temperature, then needed and is used to "photograph" molecuses). ever existing. and who knows, maybe we'll find evidence of god's existance as well.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 who says humanity needs a god? ive just spent the evening hearing you justify child murder in the name of your god so that hardly fills me with confidence a delusional belief is in the best interest of humanity.
god is a hypothesis, nothing more, so come back when you have some evidence, otherwise the only logical position to take is disbelief.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics prove he does not and i will. and if you've spent the whole evening quarreling with me, you must have a lot of free time. i mean i was just in a mode for some argument, but you, you are a supertroll pal.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 i find it amusing how i am a supertroll because I am not brainwashed into believing what my mummy and daddy told me.
prove he does not? i dont give a fuck what you believe, there are already plenty of stupid people in the world. see thats the difference between you and I, I require evidence before I accept a claim, you believe it just because your mum and dad said to.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics the only difference between you and me is that i started believing because he answered my questions and i was able to "see" the god, while you stopped to believe just because it was forced down to you by your mummy and daddy and you didn't have the "eyes" to see him. i too don't care what you think either, because from my perspective you are the stupid one. so why not just leave each other and go on with our lives?
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 i do find it amusing to be accused of stupidity by someone who tells me they dont need evidence or facts to support their belief. they will just blindly go through their lives believing what their mummy told them. you really are no different to the brainwashed children in muslim families who think exactly as you do.
i stopped believing because as I have said repeatedly, all the evidence contradicts the gospels. you are the one too stupid to look at evidence
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics but you are the stupid one. you are too blind to "see" the god. and i accuse you of being stupid, because i've told you countless times that these arguments will take us nowhere, yet you continue to bug me.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 I am too blind to see a god you only see because you have had a childhood of indoctrination? anyone can talk to one of the thousands of god humanity has invented if your parents tell you your whole life its completely true. you present no proof and expect people to convert to your religion? that is laughable. it makes sense how christians have to brainwash their children because no rational person with a real choice thinks "hmm there's no evidence but ill believe anyway"
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics and obviously too blind to read. how many times have i told you that my parents never told me anything about the religion. and how many times have i written that these arguments wold take us nowhere. and after that just what made you think i wanted you to convert to my religion? i just wanted you to share my point of view.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 your parents obviously told you from birth that jesus was the son of god and you'd go to heaven if you believed in him. that is just as much brainwashing as it is in a muslim family when they say similar things about their own religion. or like i pointed out before did your parents never mention christianity at all? i find that hard to believe. you're right these arguments take us no-where because at the end of the day i am arguing with a brainwashed illogical child.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics and i'm arguing with a cunt. i told you many many times: my parents never talked about christianity with me. they never said that i'd go to hell if i did not believe. i just came to like god, because i liked his teachings and i saw his ower everywhere. i found things my church teaches about how to live quite true and useful when it came to everyday life. so fuck off.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 bullshit, you said before how your parents told you all about jesus being the messiah so you obviously did not come from a neutral background. you liked his teachings? like every muslim child brainwashed by their parent likes allahs teachings? you're just another sheep believing the myths of a primitive tribe in the desert because your mummy and daddy told you to.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics well, congradulations. you've just proved that you are a total cunt. you call everything you don't like or think is nt likely bullshit. so how can anyone argue with you? and if you were not a total idiot, you'd stop arguing right now, by now you'd have understood none of us can prove that another's point of view is wrong. but you're here like a total jackass. no, calling you an idiot, stubborn fool or a jackass would be an insult to real ones. congradulations! bravo!
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 "you call everything you don't like or think is nt likely bullshit"
I call anything that someone claims is true without presenting any evidence at all bullshit. i also call the person who is making the claim a dumb fuck brainwashed by their mummy and daddy.
"none of us can prove that another's point of view is wrong" actually I have countless times, as I keep stating the number of mistakes in the gospels which were not even written by people who were there are laugable you fool.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics so have i, you can't prove there is no god, neither can i that there is. besides, do you think i care what you say? you died for me as a person, when you said 10 commandements ammoral. you are just some spineless slimeball, who understands everything straightforard, who's knowledge of the subjectcomes mainly from internet, who ignores historical evidences. you never show respect for other people's believes. so why don't you shut the hell up and go on to live your pathetic life?
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 wow you really are brainwashed if you think the world works on disproving things. sorry you brainwashed fool but the burden of proof is always on the person making the claim.
yes the commandments are immoral if they equate working on the sabbath with murder. thats just disgusting.
my knowledge comes from the internet? no fuckit you dont even understand the history of your faith. the gospels mean shit all when they were not even written by people who were even there.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics and where did you get the idea, working on sabbath is murder? working on sabbath is praying, a day you commit to the god, but then this day moved to sunday due to the christ rising on sunday. i do understand history of y faith and i see that it has made my people stronger. study history of georgia. and yes your knowledge comes from the internet: you even mixed leviticus with numbers. but as i said, fuck off. the world works on proving and disproving. don't ignore it.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 you dickhead the commandments are supposed to be the ten worse sins and working on the sabbith is right next to murder. that is absolute bullshit to believe that working on that day is as bad as killing someone. i wrote down the wrong, verse reference but the content was completely correct and horrible.
"the world works on proving and disproving" yes dickhead. someone makes a claim like "there is a god" and they have to prove it. if they cant they're a brainwashed fool.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 you know what people who are not brainwashed think when someone says that there is no proof for their beliefs but they believe anyway? BULLSHIT if someone makes that bullshit claim there is no reason to choose your religion over any other because they all say it. the point of god is to have faith we dont need proof because our mummy brainwashed us into believing! it must be lovely to live in your simple world where you believe whatever makes you feel good rather than what has evidence
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 "who ignores historical evidences" like what? bullshit claims made by superstitious kings? do you ignore the 'historical evidence' of the egpytians writing their pharoah was a god? logic tells us thats bullshit, just as logic tells us just because someone wrote something it doesnt prove it occurred. you are so brainwashed are terrified of thinking without the brainwashing of your mummy you keep lying about facts. fact: the gospels were not written by people who were there.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics okay then. the torcher of saint habo was written by a man who was there. but do you know about it? no you don't, because you have not read it, and don't ignore the fact, you contradicted yourself when said 10 commandements were ammoral. for the note, very few are written by people who were there. and how many times do i have to say it, the idea of god's existance being proovable contradicts the entire philosophy.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 when did i contradict myself when i said the commandments were immoral? i have said a number of times any set of laws that has murder equal to working on a certain day are bullshit.
"the idea of god's existance being proovable contradicts the entire philosophy" wow you mean your entire philosophy is based around being unprovable? that sounds no different than a philosophy someone made and said it was unprovable so they never had to prove anything, just brainwash stupid children.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics my entire philosophy is based upon following your heart. my country has had more than one mmiracles in it's history. and u know what, i'll tel you how i see the god: there is a certain motion of sequences in the universe, that affects your decisions. and your and other people's actions affect that sequence. a man can follow that sequence to some degree, but not fully understand it, because it's too cmplex, like movement of molecules.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
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@giorgiv18 "following your heart" wow congratulations you just summed yourself up. "I'm a brainless fool who rather than basing my beliefs in facts and evidence believes whatever makes me feel nice". congratulations, unlike you I prefer to live in the real world where a pesky thing like facts and evidence are required to substantiate opinions.
sequences in the universe that affect our decisions? proof please, or are you talking more bullshit.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 congratulations you just summed yourself up. you follow your heart "I believe what makes me feel good inside because my parents brainwashed me because I am a mindless beast too stupid to think and look for evidence". this is why the religious love getting children like you young, because they can drill into you that no-one needs facts or evidence to believe in something.
motion of sequences in the universe? sounds like more bullshit.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics and, because human brain in't capable of understanding the sequence, words "fate" and "luck" were born to explain things around them, when actually they are results of human actions combined with universal motion, studied by science. if someone tries to understand it, they'll be free of fate, but when even your understanding of the world is not enough, your actions and universal motion will lead to something unredictable for you. and that's where god makes his move. i think.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 stop making more bullshit claims and acting like science backs you up. show me a peer reviewed journal proving that the motion of sequences in the universe affect the way we think. you have no proof and need to stop believing any shit. this is why religion is bad for people, because once you get so stupid you think facts are not required to believe things ALL the bullshit in the world gets accepted in your mind.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics that's not my idea, it's friedrich niezshe's. the quetion here is, if your responce to someone's action is determined by the nature of this action and preconseptions you've formed about hi/her. and if other's actions are determined by your interaction, then tho's the one making decision?
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 so you are quoting a philosopher, sorry that does not qualify as real evidence. your comment deals with REAL human interactions that we know for a fact are real. when you try to apply some supernatural background to it you have still provided no evidence for this supernatural being. all the religions think that their god is unprovable and working behind the scenes and none of them provide any evidence. so tell me why should anyone believe for logical reasons?
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics and let's define the universal motion of sequence. i don't mean some supernatural power, i mean physical ocurrences that are connected to each other, like the wind blowing, causing thermal changes in the atmosphere, causing us to change our clothes, or global warming, causing ice to melt, which itself causes floods in some countries.and i'll tell you later if you want, why(in at least orthodox christian's believes) god interacts with the wrold to begin with.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 yes again you are using physical, natural events of which we have EVIDENCE for to try and prove something you have no evidence for: god. like you said, they are physical events we have evidence for. they do not have billions of people saying they are completely different things and saying you dont need evidence to believe them.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics i'm not trying to prove anything, i'm just sharing my pont of view. do you not stand christianity so much, you refuse to respect other people's opinions?
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 i refuse to respect people who are so ignorant they excuse their belief without evidence by using their heart. even the jews have good points as to why jesus was not a messiah. did jesus bring in an age of world peace? no he did not. and what is the christian excuse? that will happen at the second coming. what bullshit im pretty sure if your god wrote the bible and said the messiah would do something he wouldnt change his mind and say 'but he'll do it later'
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics and again a flaw in your logic. according to the bible jesus did something, when he came to the world. by letting people torcher him, he opened the gates of heaven, which was sealed before. and according to bible he did not change the world by force, because he wanted us to make our own choice of how to live and then be sent to heaven or hell acordingly.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 a flaw to my logic? did you even read what I bloody wrote? the messiah was prophesied to bring in an era of global world peace. jesus did not do this. why is it that your messiah failed at achieving the very prophesy he was supposed to fulfil?
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 tell me, why would an all knowing god say that his messiah would bring in an era of world peace and when the supposed messiah arrives he suddenly says 'yeah we've changed our minds im not going to do that anymore'. thats such a weak excuse, im afraid you missed the part about your god supposedly being ALL KNOWING yet thats a pretty major cock up to make. so either jesus is not the son of god or your god was wrong. which one is it?
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics none. there's one thing about prophecies- they're always vague. and what kind of bible are you talking about. i'm sorry, but does it sound different in english?
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 the prophesies of the messiah said he would bring the jews back to the land of israel Isaiah 43:5-6 and brin gin world peace Isaiah 2:4. jesus achieved NEITHER of these things, so again I ask was god wrong or was jesus not the messiah?
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 the bible said this about the messiah
He will judge between the nations
and will settle disputes for many peoples.
They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will not take up sword against nation,
nor will they train for war anymore.
thats bloody explicit, when the messiah comes there will be peace. wow major failure by jesus.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics has it never been to you, that by theory of probability one outcome is more likely, but the other has to happen, either making your life easier, or harder? well, that's just it, in my opinion, god does not need flashy special effects to take some action, he just pushes a bit, where nobody'll notice and, by havind a full understanding the universal motion, get's the outcome he desires. so that's why proving his existance is unlikely, in my opinion. if you want, i'll tell you more.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 no probability does not mean one thing has to happen, in fact that will not happen unless you have a probability of 1. i find it amusing how with the important things god goes around hiding and being subtle but you believe each year he goes around magically lighting fires. this is laughable. you have provided no proof at all, just stated what the brainwashed of every religion believe: their god is hiding and does things without people being able to notice.
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics i'm saying that when there are more than one possible outcomes of the same situation and one of them is the most probable, the other has to happen at the same time, when it was not likely to happen, and this other outcome has to either be of great help to you, or of great consequences. and you mix two things up, god sends the holy fire to earth only if the ritual is performed correctly. if not, the flames won't appear, that's why at some point they stopped appearing.
giorgiv18 9 months ago
@giorgiv18 you do not understand probability if you think that one event HAS to happen at the same time as an other. I was not mixing them up, I was mocking you because you state how all the big things your god is not detectable but working behind the scenes but for something stupid like lighting a fire suddenly he's performing his magic. jesus was nothing more than a man. why did no-one notice him when he was alive? why did people only decide to write about his magic many years after he died?
AussiePolitics 9 months ago
@AussiePolitics i never said one event had to happen at the same time as another, i said one was more likely to happen, but another happened in it's place either benefiting us, or quite the contrary. and people did notice him when he was alive, because his pupils were sent to different parts ot the world, spreading his teachings. that's where the noton of an apostolic church comes from, aphostolic means one of his pupils brought it to a country in the first century.
giorgiv18 9 months ago