I am dumber for having read these comments. 3 things
1) The only catch moves I've not seen practiced in BJJ is any variation of the shin lock
2) The emphasis on Catch wrestling is top position. The emphasis in BJJ (top / bottom) is coach-dependent
3) The Romans were the first to do this shit several millenia ago. Does that mean CACC and BJJ evolved from Pankration? No. It means there's only a finite number of ways to effectively attack a joint.
@alexpapyz31 it came from the man who trained Sakuraba, himself. I've trained with Billy Robinson and Jake Shannon in Salt Lake City, UT. I've had the pleasure of being smacked on the forehead by Billy's cane on more than one occasion LOL.
I'm extremely thank full for a living legend like Mr. Robinson. He has been a great influence for many fighters. Try to down load as much info on Catch while he's still around. Next thing we'll here is that Gracies/Bjj taught him what he know. Phucken hilarious...
It's amazing how many come on here and don't know what hell they r talking about. Does anybody on here know how to do credible research? Glad to see there r those of u who cross reference what u here or have been told. I guess I'm gonna start blabbing stuff for da fun of it. Wonder how many people I can convince? Probably da majority.
@b7r7u7c7e thanks 4 pointing that out. Couldn't have said it better my self. Nice to see that someone understands what they r talking about. I as a Kung Fu specialist have cross trained extensively in Judo. There r many Catch move that u rarely see in Judo or Bjj. Even if u do for example the Double wrist, isn't even executed the way Saku does. A specialist Catch wrestling knows what they r doing, and they know the different variations of this particular hold/submission.
@lordofthenipplerings u got ii all wrong. Pick up a copy of Rough and Tumble. U need to research the history on Catch Wrestling. Also look up Billy Robinson. Many submission holds from Catch have ended up in Judo and Bjj not the other way around. U need to research.
thanks for the analysis that was fucking great man...i loved saki's style and the way you broke it down was perfect! My brother and I played catch wrestling growing up a lot watching this makes me want to get into it...i'm 35 though can an older guy who's been out of it still get into it for self defense at least?
@mdub2000 Of course but like with anything you have to practice. And sparring is very important. Catch wrestling is really just folk style wrestling with submission hold. For some reason the Shamrock brothers used more of a sambo style with more focus being on leg locks. Sak used pure wrestling with the double wrist acting like how a boxer would use the jab.
@Ethan10510 Saku's submissions come from Catch. "Kimura" was already called "Double Wrist Lock" in CACC about a century before Mas Kimura taught it to the Gracies in the 40s... "Americana" = Double Wrist Lock also or a "Hammer Lock" depending on position. The "Twister" from 10th Planet was already called "Wrestler's Guillotine" well over a century before Eddie Bravo was born. "Front Face Lock" = "Grovit" in CACC over a centruy ago. "Arm Bar" was called a "Bar Arm" over a century ago.
@yoshiofdeath as far as Sakuraba goes, he has cross-trained in Judo and BJJ, but from a CACC perspective (e.g. train in other styles to learn how to effectively beat them). The old-time CACC wrestlers used to do that with the Japanese (there are hundreds of matches way back in the 1800s and early 1900s between traditional Jiu Jitsu stylists... and later Judoka stylists).. so, there certainly are intermingled subtle techniques between all of those styles as a result.
"over a century ago" can equate to 100+.. 200+... 300+ years prior... even up to a thousand or so... (you start getting a blur between CACC, Collar&Elbow, Turkish style wrestling... Greco-Roman... Pankration... etc. when you go beyond a couple hundred years though)... it's kinda' like Japanese Jiu Jitsu, too... no one really can trace its roots practically beyond a few hundred years back...
@Andsormida01 the Guillotine aka twister has been a submission for centuries. It's used in freestyle wrestling as a pinning combination (actually causes the opponent to pin themselves because of the pain). In Catch it was a submission. It dates back as a submission to Pankratian (Ancient Greek Wrestling). Bravo didn't do anything but brush off a rarely used technique.
@kirya094 Mitsuyo Maeda = Judoka champion (one of the greatest in the sport at that time) who also trained CACC and competed around the world in both sports... went to Brazil and passed down his art there... BJJ was born. That's why there are so many similarities. CACC is much older than Judo or BJJ obviously. The big difference between the two is emphasis on top position control (CACC) versus bottom position control (BJJ) - not to say either style doesn't use both positions mind you.
@yoshiofdeath Thanks. But For example Sakuraba,Barnett,Ken Shamrock are good grapplers, but they never trained bjj. And as for me i dont see much difference between these styles.There are lot of similar similar moves,submissions,sweeps,throws. Are there any techniques in CACC that are absent in BJJ?
@kirya094 Sakuraba has cross-trained in BJJ/Judo (but from a competitor perspective - eg how to beat them with CACC); Barnett has a black belt in BJJ awarded by Erik Paulson (Rigan Machado bb) because he won two BJJ tournaments just with CACC alone... no formal BJJ training...
@kirya094 Sure. It's more about position than anything else between the two. CACC puts more emphasis on stand-up to ground and top position and lower body submissions; BJJ puts more emphasis on ground and bottom position. Specific technique differences (what are not in BJJ): knee lever, front/side chancery, specific toe holds (eg Karl Gotch toe hold/Frank Gotch toe hold), shin ride, ball&chain ride, side ride, mare, "running the pipe", cross-faces (many of these variants).
General technique differences would be the emphasis on one versus the other between the styles: CACC emphasizes more: (1) the Double Wrist Lock and Hammer Lock (BJJ = "Kimura" and "Americana") - as a lever and as a submission; (2) the Toe Hold - as a lever and as a submission; (3) the Knee Bar as a submission.
BJJ emphasizes the Leg Triangle and Arm Triangle more.
Both styles use the Arm Bar and chokes equally.
** again, this is just pure style breakdown and not individual **
This is not shoot wrestling this is 100% catch wrestling. Shooto was what the Shamrock brothers did in Pancrase that had a HUGE Sambo base. Catch has a wrestling base were the focus was on control and pressure. The UFC wrestlers aren't catch cause there style is D1 college style mix with Bjj. Sakuraba is a pure catch wrestler
@frankcastellanos where do you think Shoot Wrestling originated from? Frank Wolfe --> Karl Gotch --> Fujiwara --> so on... all Catch Wrestlers... same influencers of Shootfighting and Bart Vale... and so-on... keep in mind that Sakuraba's direct mentor was Billy Robinson (of Billy Riley/Wigan Snake Pit... trained there longer than Karl Gotch). It's thanks to Japan that we still have Catch Wrestling alive, today... Gotch, Robinson trained the Japanese back in the day...
Ive done wrestling, judo and Brazilian jujitsu and I have a black belt. I can tell you Sakuraba brings all three together like nobody else. His strike are unique also. The smash to the ears, mongolian chock and his leg kicks will mess you up. One of the best in grappling mma history. God I miss Pride. The Golden years of MMA.
Sakuraba was a pure catch wrestler. Unlike the guys from pancrase (frank and ken shamrock)who focus more on leg locks sakuraba had good balance and an excellent wrestling back ground. His bread and butter move was the double wrist lock(kimura)that he could lap on in any position.
@baphomet58 nice trollin bud. Submitting a UFC WW champ Carlos Newton a can. 41 year old, been threw more wars than anyone, losing two in prime Jason Miller (who wears the red streak in his hair as tribute to Saku) makes him a can aswell eh? beating 7 UFC champs, 3 Kings of Pancrase and a Dream tournament champ, not to mention fighting the best of the best reguardless of their size makes him a Legend actually. Only one 180 lber could be considered dangerous to the best HWs in a fight thats Saku
Btw out of curiousity Kazushi always wears his signature orange shorts that say icc or sumething like that. never got a really good look at them but does anyone know what the letters stand for?
@MEK312456 "Here is what's behind the ICS 39. The ICS on Kazushi Sakuraba's shorts are his initials, the I and C together making up a design for the K. The 3 and 9 if spoken separately in Japanese would sound like san ku or Saku short for Sakuraba." Just read that from a google search
@TruNikkaz try to reach out to Jake Shannon and the Scientific Wrestling group because they're teaching the real deal. I love both styles and get the most out of seeing which concepts fit (for me as an individual) from both.
I really want to get into grappling, greco, freestyle and catch wrestling...I;m not a fan of BJJ...it's just a shame that I don't know if there are any places that specialize on those types of grappling where I live, which is in Puerto Rico, judo is really the only thing here
@JKT6 Technique and Concept: CACC puts far more emphasis on the top game/position... using stand up techniques as setups for ground position/submission... and leg position.. and is more offensive by nature. BJJ puts more emphasis on the bottom game/position and is more defensive by nature. Submission Grappling techniques are simply offshoots of both styles (and the styles influenced by them).
@JKT6 Historically, it's the progenator to submission grappling... sub grappling came from Shoot Wrestling and Shooto... which came from CACC (Karl Gotch, Lou Thesz, Billy Robinson, Fujiwara, etc. taught the Japenese through the decades). As for BJJ's relationship, Count Koma (Mitsuya Maeda), who taught Helio and Carlos Gracie in Brazil trained in Judo and in Catch Wrestling and competed in both back in the day. Most modern grappling styles are tied to one another in some fashion.
@samluke8121 sure. The limbs are still under the gis, so you can still use the same setups and techniques. I find, though, that including Judo grips on the gis enhances the techniques, too; so, basically, I'd say combine the CACC techniques/grips WITH the Judo grips on the gis (mix them up, in other words), and you have a great arsenal to work with.
@JKT6 lastly... as far as Gi vs NoGi... CACC practitioners' uniforms are whatever works but are not unlike amateur wresters (specifically with the wrestling shoes).. but everything closely resembles NoGi grappling... while cross-training with BJJ stylists who do wear GI, I find that the grips in CACC and even Judo work very well against uniforms, but that's a modification...
@emanresu81 it's an OLD term that stems from catching whatever hold or submission you can when you can however you can... the term came from Great Britain originally...
@MEK312456 give it a try in your next sparring/rolling session (just don't let your partner know you're going to do it)... it works... but it's one of those one-time things that works against a different opponent each time... training partners will get wise to it REAL quick and just circle under you each time afterward
@yoshiofdeath after a really long time of watching it im acctually gunna try it during a wrestling match idk if it will work but i have faith in it and ill keep practicing lol. nice vid btw
Honestly i can say that catch wrestling = amazing wrestling
i never knew about catch wrestling alot before but now im going to take it up with all my power. i also train in kyokushin, kung fu and freestyle wrestling, but catch is going to be in the mix!!
i've seen GSP use alot of these techniques liek the tk dwn defense with the modifyed whizzer. Looks like it takes alot of athleticism though. BJJ can be done without bein crazy atheletic.
I don't see why Lesnar is being listed as a catch wrestler. He's an elite college wrestler who has a BJJ world champ as part of his team along with the usual boxing/ muay thai coach that most fighters have.
Nice video! It's always good to see how techniques are used in a real fight.
I really need to look into this guy, 'cause Carlos Newton is no joke to be handling like this. No joke at all. This is pretty amazing that he's able to maintain his ground so well on the ground with such a GREAT wrestler.
whoever votes "catch wrestling" should adapt and become more of a rounded MMA technique including striking put thumbs up! How much cooler would it be if Sakuraba threw technical strikes whilst using "catch wrestling" techniques? He would win many more fights
@5rsouth the majority of his losses have more to do with Size than striking. At an elite level, size does matter. Saku actually did have pretty good striking against men his size and had very good technical striking with his feet. once you get over 20lbs though that power becomes reduced and most of his losses came to men 30-50lbs heavier.
@panther2552 I realize that bro I am a huge sakuraba fan myself... seen all of his free videos of fights and watched some. This is why I think if he joined a fighting camp more strike based added along with his prior catch wrestling in the UFC ring he would be way more well rounded. If he could or would join a camp like Anderson Silva's camp or Chuck Liddells camp just for striking, I Guarantee he would be UFC heavyweight champion within 6 fights. straight up. IDC lesnar fans it would happen
I'd love to see if you guys got a hold of sakuraba's instructional video - a lot of the techniques you are talking about are illustrated well. I have a VHS copy
@christahfour gaining... thanks to Scientific Wrestling (Jake Shannon, Billy Robinson, Josh Barnett, Eric Paulson, Sakuraba, Minowa, Kris Iaskevitch, Brock Lesnar, now Randy Couture...) efforts... it was the most popular grappling art around the late 1800s and early 1900s... I think it's coming back... it's becoming the next BJJ.
Amazing video...Saku is one of my favourite fighters of all time. I'm a Judo-ka, and I've always wanted to study CACC. Too bad it's very difficult to find where I'm from. :\
@yoshiofdeath dude, this is the most perfect fight analysis video anywhere in youtube, I've watched it like a bazillion times. You should do many, many, many, many, MANY more of these. Thanks and greetings from Santo Domingo!
@yoshiofdeath "Maeda trained/competed in Kodokan Judo and CACC around the world"
He trained in middle school Judo? That's all Kodokan Judo meant. School judo. It wasn't a different style of judo, it was just lacking the throws to avoid injury to students in middle school.
As for training in CACC, I know he rolled with them, but there wasn't any moves in their syllabus that didn't already exist in Judo at the time.
I'm a big CACC fan and want to learn it, but try to use confirmed facts.
@ResidentNinja To reflect this, he replaced justu (technique) in the word "ju-jutsu" with the suffix do (path) to create a new name for his art: judo. His training hall he named "Ko-do-kan," or "a place to teach the path." <-- I'm aware of what Kodokan means. Kodokan is emphasized for its place of origin.
@shoegazer666 excuse me? i believe you are the one who is wrong. the best way to beat a grappler is striking and visa versa, so what better a style of grappling than wrestling that includes all the principals of BJJ? a good striker beats a catch wrestler any day but a good catch wrestler will always beat a striker.
Wauw, many of these moves can be credited to nearly ALL grappling arts. I mean, I know that sakuraba is a CACC (and Shooto) fighter but credit something universal like "arm control" and "palms on torso" to CACC is pretty lame...
Catch is so old that it certainly influenced other styles in one fashion or another (like Sambo). It puts just as much emphasis on legwork as Sambo (minus the strikes/gouges/etc. from Military Sambo, of course). Personally, I prefer BOTH BJJ and CACC because they complete both halves of the same whole (increases the odds for size differences that way) <-- I'm a little dude
@ErikPaulsonFan It will come someday, but until then I recommend you to train at "New York City Combat Sambo". Stephen Koepfer does a lot of seminaries in Canada along Kris Iatskevitch, a well known catch wrestling coach. I'm sure he incorporated more catch in his sambo. For your information, catch wrestling is one of the "ancestors" of sambo.
@ErikPaulsonFan Sambo is a lot more than that. It would be hard to go through it under 500 characters ;) And Koepfer did a few seminaries along a catch wrestling coach in Quebec, Kris Iatskevich. Koepfer is not officially a catch wrestler, but he did train a couple of times in catch wrestling, and catch wrestling is one of the basis of Sambo. There's a lot of similarities.. even if there's still differences between the approaches. I found it easy to do the transition from sambo to catch btw ;)
my friend trust me its not a matter of learning BJJ and then you dont need anything, thats wrong why, because there are other arts that teach what BJJ has and a hell of a lot more. its all about what kind of a fighter you want to be and how complete you wanna be.
I can tell you that all 3 styles are great. But fighting is more dynamic than just style vs style, Arguments can be made for any one of these styles, and why might one have a distinct advantage over the other. But it's always up to the fighter, a fighter's mental(will to fighter and discipline), physical and technical abilities always factor into a fight. lacking any of these department might hurt u in a fight, and don't forget about striking!
@CrowdPleeza take Shooto because it's ground is English Catch Wrestling, Japanese Judo, and Russian Sambo with stand up Muay Thai and Japanese Kickboxing. It is a very complete MMA style. BJJ will only teach you ground and is not suitable against multiple opponents and the big guy can overcome a Jujitsu fighter so it's better to take Shooto and be more well rounded in Martial Arts.
@CrowdPleeza I'm an ex-sambist converted to catch, and my 1st grappling sport was BJJ. I know well each of them. Let me tell you that they all complete each other, but some stuff is more useful for street defense. BJJ is all about ground work. That's not where u wanna be in a street fight. On the other hand, both sambo and catch wrestling got a good stand up game, and they teach "dirty tricks" for street defense for both of them. So both catch and sambo are good arts as self defense techniques.
(I accidentally deleted someone's post in here - my apologies!) I'll respond anyway: CACC is growing. It's going to take time, but you're going to see it flourish like it did back in the last turn of the century. Folks like Sakuraba, Minowa, Josh Barnett, Randy Couture (who's now cross-training in Catch).. and coaches like Billy Robinson, Jake Shannon, Billy Wicks, Fujiwara, etc... will help perpetuate it all the more. You have to travel far to get training on it, but it's worth it.
...Iaskevitch, Dick Cardinal... now, there's a whole new generation of CACC coaches coming up the ranks: Jesse Marez (CA)... Sam Kressin (CA)... Alex Cook (UK)... a whole host of names are cropping out there...
Sakuraba demostrated the effectiveness of Catch Wrestling when he fought the Gracies, espicially Royce. As good as BJJ is and how good Royce is on the ground, espcially when he`s wearing his GI, Sakuraba almost effortlessly threw him around and stuffed his submission attempts and at a few points, used the GI against Royce. I train in submission grappling and MMA here in the UK, but my club are more into BJJ. I only wish there were more Catch Wrestling clubs around.
@bangermccrusher - I don't think it's really a matter of respect or disrespect, but, personally, I get a benefit out of training in BOTH systems---being a small guy.
He has training vids out (probably have to go through Ebay to get 'em like I did - mine are VHS copies), but there are a couple of clips from them floating around on YouTube.
I just completed another tremendous CACC training program with Billy Robinson and Jake Shannon in Salt Lake City, UT. Wow... it's mind boggling how much content there is.. all the little details... the difference turning just 45 degrees can do... or turning your forearm UP... or turning your toes in the direction you're rolling your opponent.. or pushing your body weight over the back of the head instead of the back of the neck... that's what CACC is all about, man...
@yoshieofdeath -- I've seen some of the SW videos here on Youtube. My advice? Go to a summer amateur wrestling camp instead. Because "all the little details" you are learning are the techniques taught to pro wrestlers. That is, you are learning what's called "working holds." They may work for you, they may not. But you'd be better served learning how to move than learning loose submissions.
I think 10pjj and CW would compliment each other very well 10pjj has a very good bottom game I tried it but hate the fact that they are so focused on pulling guard which cw doesn't have such a problem with. but in grappling competions if I would know both really well I would use cw to get top and control and if I was outmached would resort to attacks from guard and half guard from 10pjj......... street fight wouldn't even think of using 10pjj tho cross training is where its at
@JustToletUknow Thats what I was thinking, ive been watching CACC dvds and reading up on it and ive really taken to it and i thought it would mesh well with 10th pjj, so just gonna try and see how it goes combining the two lol
@ElTomPed hey, as you progress, post that stuff.. share your thoughts on the subject.... we'd be very interested. Side note: there's a vid of one of the CACC guys rolling with Eddie Bravo and demo'ing an Indian Deathlock on a Half Guard attempt by Eddie (can't remember the 10th Planet term though).
Well ElTomPed im starting catchwrestling in a week to bully my 10 pjj teammates lol I did freestyle wrestling and placed regionaly and provincially so i should be transition smoothly. Also can you yoshiofdeath show a link of eddie bravo attempting the "lockdown" on a cacc practionar thanx
@JustToletUknow LockDown! Thank you... my BJJ training partner would probably toss a rash guard shirt at me for forgetting that term... I'll try to dig that vid up. You're going to Salt Lake, this coming weekend, right?
The more i see catch wrestling, the more i believe it's more appropriate for MMA.
it's more aggressive, it's no gi, it's compliments the physical attributes of fighters, where as bjj is more for the physically "inferior" to use on the physically "superior".
would most catch wrestlers agree that it's more fit for MMA?
Ironically, it's BECAUSE of MMA that Catch Wrestling is making its comeback. Prior to the fame of UFC and Dream and Pride, CACC was being kept alive in Japan (Karl Gotch/Billy Robinson/ Lou Thesz/ Fujiwara/etc. were coaching the competitors in Shooto, Pro, etc.). With techniques like knee levers, "sawing" against biceps, knees on jawbones, small joint manipulations, it's a good fit for MMA.
What do you think of 10th Planet jiu jitsu. I'm curious because alot of the 10th Planet submissions are very unorthodox & unusual, a little similar to catch wrestling. IMO, I believe it's best to abandon the gi once you've become a black belt. I honestly prefer no-gi over gi
i've been really wanting to get into catch wrestling, but i dont think there are any schools around my area. and definitely not around my price. which instructional videos would you recommend?
i dont think the greats like karl gotch or gene lebel have too many videos out. I know Eric paulson has a loooooot of videos. so does tony cecchine, but i've read on scientific wrestling that he's a fake. may just be a marketing ploy, but what do you think?
W.A.R. is awesome... anything by Fujiwara is awesome... the Conceptual Syllabus (all of the above is at Scientific Wrestling's website) is awesome... if you can find it, Sakuraba has an instructional series out that's incredible (I just have it on VHS). CACC is just now making a comeback, so expect MORE material to come out, soon.
hey yoshi, im a bjj blue belt and have been training it for a couple years, and since there arent any schools in my area, do you reccomend watching instructional dvd's and blending techniques from both? or do they sort of contradict the other?
I don't believe they contradict one another... I really don't... I honestly believe they compliment one another (that's what I'm doing right now - CACC and BJJ). Scientific Wrestling's main website has all the instructional CACC DVDs you'll need - I also recommend Kris Iaskevitch's DVDs.
No... I don't believe you can learn the BASICS from W.A.R. because that was more geared to the advanced grappling level (although it DOES cover some of the basics along with the advanced stuff). I DO recommend getting it, regardless, however. I got it at a discount because I'm a member of Scientific Wrestling.
I am dumber for having read these comments. 3 things
1) The only catch moves I've not seen practiced in BJJ is any variation of the shin lock
2) The emphasis on Catch wrestling is top position. The emphasis in BJJ (top / bottom) is coach-dependent
3) The Romans were the first to do this shit several millenia ago. Does that mean CACC and BJJ evolved from Pankration? No. It means there's only a finite number of ways to effectively attack a joint.
Effin-A.
wlbube2 5 hours ago
@yoshiofdeath I'm not even gonna ask where u got ur information from. All I can say is good job. Ur info speaks for itself.
alexpapyz31 1 week ago
@alexpapyz31 it came from the man who trained Sakuraba, himself. I've trained with Billy Robinson and Jake Shannon in Salt Lake City, UT. I've had the pleasure of being smacked on the forehead by Billy's cane on more than one occasion LOL.
yoshiofdeath 1 week ago
I'm extremely thank full for a living legend like Mr. Robinson. He has been a great influence for many fighters. Try to down load as much info on Catch while he's still around. Next thing we'll here is that Gracies/Bjj taught him what he know. Phucken hilarious...
alexpapyz31 1 week ago
It's amazing how many come on here and don't know what hell they r talking about. Does anybody on here know how to do credible research? Glad to see there r those of u who cross reference what u here or have been told. I guess I'm gonna start blabbing stuff for da fun of it. Wonder how many people I can convince? Probably da majority.
alexpapyz31 1 week ago
@b7r7u7c7e thanks 4 pointing that out. Couldn't have said it better my self. Nice to see that someone understands what they r talking about. I as a Kung Fu specialist have cross trained extensively in Judo. There r many Catch move that u rarely see in Judo or Bjj. Even if u do for example the Double wrist, isn't even executed the way Saku does. A specialist Catch wrestling knows what they r doing, and they know the different variations of this particular hold/submission.
alexpapyz31 1 week ago
@lordofthenipplerings u got ii all wrong. Pick up a copy of Rough and Tumble. U need to research the history on Catch Wrestling. Also look up Billy Robinson. Many submission holds from Catch have ended up in Judo and Bjj not the other way around. U need to research.
alexpapyz31 1 week ago
@alexpapyz31 They copied BJJ. The very first MMA events where anything was allowed was introduced by BJJ. All this other stuff came afterwards.
Lordofthenipplerings 4 days ago
@Lordofthenipplerings TROOOOLLLLLL!!
theshninja 4 days ago
@theshninja Its just how it is.
Lordofthenipplerings 3 days ago
@Lordofthenipplerings Nice try. ;)
theshninja 3 days ago
@theshninja whatever
Lordofthenipplerings 3 days ago
@Lordofthenipplerings Yup!
theshninja 1 day ago
@theshninja :)
Lordofthenipplerings 1 day ago
Without Royce introducing BJJ to the world, catch wrestlers would have nothing to copy.
Lordofthenipplerings 1 week ago
cacc isnt evolving like bjj. bjj is more advanced. If anything bjj is absorbing catch
crabbit87 1 month ago
Great video! You brought up a lot of good points in pausing Sakuraba's fight footage.
kupigana 2 months ago
thanks for the analysis that was fucking great man...i loved saki's style and the way you broke it down was perfect! My brother and I played catch wrestling growing up a lot watching this makes me want to get into it...i'm 35 though can an older guy who's been out of it still get into it for self defense at least?
mdub2000 3 months ago
@mdub2000 Of course but like with anything you have to practice. And sparring is very important. Catch wrestling is really just folk style wrestling with submission hold. For some reason the Shamrock brothers used more of a sambo style with more focus being on leg locks. Sak used pure wrestling with the double wrist acting like how a boxer would use the jab.
b7r7u7c7e 2 months ago
CATCH ROCKS! Sakuraba is one of the best, if not THE best, representative of Catch wrestling!!!
TheGoogler77 3 months ago
This is one of the greatest MMA fights I have ever seen, I have it in my collection and it's a beautiful fight to watch.
nasbo 3 months ago
@Ethan10510 Saku's submissions come from Catch. "Kimura" was already called "Double Wrist Lock" in CACC about a century before Mas Kimura taught it to the Gracies in the 40s... "Americana" = Double Wrist Lock also or a "Hammer Lock" depending on position. The "Twister" from 10th Planet was already called "Wrestler's Guillotine" well over a century before Eddie Bravo was born. "Front Face Lock" = "Grovit" in CACC over a centruy ago. "Arm Bar" was called a "Bar Arm" over a century ago.
yoshiofdeath 4 months ago
@yoshiofdeath as far as Sakuraba goes, he has cross-trained in Judo and BJJ, but from a CACC perspective (e.g. train in other styles to learn how to effectively beat them). The old-time CACC wrestlers used to do that with the Japanese (there are hundreds of matches way back in the 1800s and early 1900s between traditional Jiu Jitsu stylists... and later Judoka stylists).. so, there certainly are intermingled subtle techniques between all of those styles as a result.
yoshiofdeath 4 months ago
"over a century ago" can equate to 100+.. 200+... 300+ years prior... even up to a thousand or so... (you start getting a blur between CACC, Collar&Elbow, Turkish style wrestling... Greco-Roman... Pankration... etc. when you go beyond a couple hundred years though)... it's kinda' like Japanese Jiu Jitsu, too... no one really can trace its roots practically beyond a few hundred years back...
yoshiofdeath 4 months ago
@yoshiofdeath The twister wasn't actually a submission, Bravo just formalized the finishing technique to achieve the submission.
Andsormida01 3 months ago
@Andsormida01 the Guillotine aka twister has been a submission for centuries. It's used in freestyle wrestling as a pinning combination (actually causes the opponent to pin themselves because of the pain). In Catch it was a submission. It dates back as a submission to Pankratian (Ancient Greek Wrestling). Bravo didn't do anything but brush off a rarely used technique.
panther2552 1 month ago
@Andsormida01 yes it is illegal to lock the hands in folk style
crabbit87 1 month ago
catch wrestling looks like bjj
kirya094 4 months ago
@kirya094 Mitsuyo Maeda = Judoka champion (one of the greatest in the sport at that time) who also trained CACC and competed around the world in both sports... went to Brazil and passed down his art there... BJJ was born. That's why there are so many similarities. CACC is much older than Judo or BJJ obviously. The big difference between the two is emphasis on top position control (CACC) versus bottom position control (BJJ) - not to say either style doesn't use both positions mind you.
yoshiofdeath 4 months ago
@yoshiofdeath Thanks. But For example Sakuraba,Barnett,Ken Shamrock are good grapplers, but they never trained bjj. And as for me i dont see much difference between these styles.There are lot of similar similar moves,submissions,sweeps,throws. Are there any techniques in CACC that are absent in BJJ?
kirya094 4 months ago
@kirya094 Sakuraba has cross-trained in BJJ/Judo (but from a competitor perspective - eg how to beat them with CACC); Barnett has a black belt in BJJ awarded by Erik Paulson (Rigan Machado bb) because he won two BJJ tournaments just with CACC alone... no formal BJJ training...
yoshiofdeath 4 months ago
@kirya094 Sure. It's more about position than anything else between the two. CACC puts more emphasis on stand-up to ground and top position and lower body submissions; BJJ puts more emphasis on ground and bottom position. Specific technique differences (what are not in BJJ): knee lever, front/side chancery, specific toe holds (eg Karl Gotch toe hold/Frank Gotch toe hold), shin ride, ball&chain ride, side ride, mare, "running the pipe", cross-faces (many of these variants).
yoshiofdeath 4 months ago
General technique differences would be the emphasis on one versus the other between the styles: CACC emphasizes more: (1) the Double Wrist Lock and Hammer Lock (BJJ = "Kimura" and "Americana") - as a lever and as a submission; (2) the Toe Hold - as a lever and as a submission; (3) the Knee Bar as a submission.
BJJ emphasizes the Leg Triangle and Arm Triangle more.
Both styles use the Arm Bar and chokes equally.
** again, this is just pure style breakdown and not individual **
yoshiofdeath 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This is not shoot wrestling this is 100% catch wrestling. Shooto was what the Shamrock brothers did in Pancrase that had a HUGE Sambo base. Catch has a wrestling base were the focus was on control and pressure. The UFC wrestlers aren't catch cause there style is D1 college style mix with Bjj. Sakuraba is a pure catch wrestler
b7r7u7c7e 5 months ago
Great match, even better play by play tutorial
Mrdute12 5 months ago
the 2 dislikes were from Carlos Newton
aperez515 6 months ago
fantastic frigen video man
QofLife69 7 months ago
Sakuraba's fights seem to be nonstop action, he's constantly going after something.
oeyesea 7 months ago
dude, thanks for breaking this down. so much technique!
jedoza 8 months ago
this is not catch wrestling this is shoot wrestling from japan
frankcastellanos 8 months ago
@frankcastellanos where do you think Shoot Wrestling originated from? Frank Wolfe --> Karl Gotch --> Fujiwara --> so on... all Catch Wrestlers... same influencers of Shootfighting and Bart Vale... and so-on... keep in mind that Sakuraba's direct mentor was Billy Robinson (of Billy Riley/Wigan Snake Pit... trained there longer than Karl Gotch). It's thanks to Japan that we still have Catch Wrestling alive, today... Gotch, Robinson trained the Japanese back in the day...
yoshiofdeath 7 months ago 25
SAKURRRRRRRRRRRRABA
californicator 8 months ago
Absolutely crazy to think of BJJ and CACC as mutually exclusive. BJJ practitioner as well, and I love watching this stuff.
theemadnes 8 months ago
one of the best vids of saku on youtube!
fightculturevision 9 months ago
Newton vs. Saku is one of the best MMA fights ever.
BandakaKush 10 months ago
Ive done wrestling, judo and Brazilian jujitsu and I have a black belt. I can tell you Sakuraba brings all three together like nobody else. His strike are unique also. The smash to the ears, mongolian chock and his leg kicks will mess you up. One of the best in grappling mma history. God I miss Pride. The Golden years of MMA.
attilaclark 10 months ago 2
@attilaclark sure
hallokity123 9 months ago
Sakuraba was a pure catch wrestler. Unlike the guys from pancrase (frank and ken shamrock)who focus more on leg locks sakuraba had good balance and an excellent wrestling back ground. His bread and butter move was the double wrist lock(kimura)that he could lap on in any position.
gungfu777 10 months ago
Pure catch except for all the parts where both of Saku's shoulders touch the mat, losing him a catch wrestling match.
Kenyawn 10 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
bunch of failed submission attempts against a can in carlos newton. sakuraba is a can and just got owned by the new breed, IE jason miller.
baphomet58 11 months ago
@baphomet58 age n battered body caught up with him
sonnyboi83 10 months ago
@baphomet58 nice trollin bud. Submitting a UFC WW champ Carlos Newton a can. 41 year old, been threw more wars than anyone, losing two in prime Jason Miller (who wears the red streak in his hair as tribute to Saku) makes him a can aswell eh? beating 7 UFC champs, 3 Kings of Pancrase and a Dream tournament champ, not to mention fighting the best of the best reguardless of their size makes him a Legend actually. Only one 180 lber could be considered dangerous to the best HWs in a fight thats Saku
panther2552 9 months ago
Catch wrestling is alot like British chain wrestling in pro wrestling. The flow in positioning and submissions that Saku does are beautiful.
dagreatcapri82 11 months ago
@dagreatcapri82 - One of Sakuraba 's teachers was Billy Robinson, an Englishman.
funkybjorn11 7 months ago
@funkybjorn11 Thanks. I knew that though.
dagreatcapri82 7 months ago
Sakuraba vs. Newton is one of the most technical matchs I've ever seen in mixed martial arts.
TonyCroydon 11 months ago
saku is one crafty dude
blusuck 1 year ago
thanks for the great vid...
thanks even more for not ruining it with lame music...
thetruthis9 1 year ago
BJJ & CACC together = Ultimate Submission...nuff said.
flowjitsu1337 1 year ago
Sakuraba is an amazing grappler. Major respect!
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
I can feel you respect Sakuraba
Yousya1728 1 year ago
Btw out of curiousity Kazushi always wears his signature orange shorts that say icc or sumething like that. never got a really good look at them but does anyone know what the letters stand for?
MEK312456 1 year ago
@MEK312456 "Here is what's behind the ICS 39. The ICS on Kazushi Sakuraba's shorts are his initials, the I and C together making up a design for the K. The 3 and 9 if spoken separately in Japanese would sound like san ku or Saku short for Sakuraba." Just read that from a google search
b34rh34d 1 year ago
@b34rh34d thank you for the reply lol.
MEK312456 1 year ago
thank you for posting this, i am a bjj practitioner but i dont know a thing about catch wrestling and i aspire to learn some if possible
TruNikkaz 1 year ago 11
@TruNikkaz try to reach out to Jake Shannon and the Scientific Wrestling group because they're teaching the real deal. I love both styles and get the most out of seeing which concepts fit (for me as an individual) from both.
yoshiofdeath 1 year ago 2
I really want to get into grappling, greco, freestyle and catch wrestling...I;m not a fan of BJJ...it's just a shame that I don't know if there are any places that specialize on those types of grappling where I live, which is in Puerto Rico, judo is really the only thing here
fredyzpt 1 year ago
very educative with the comments during the vid, thanks!
waldomarek 1 year ago
@yoshiofdeath typos: "Mitsuyo Maeda" and "Japanese"
yoshiofdeath 1 year ago
how does catch wrestling differ from submission grappling (bjj with no gi) ?
Thanks
JKT6 1 year ago
@JKT6 Technique and Concept: CACC puts far more emphasis on the top game/position... using stand up techniques as setups for ground position/submission... and leg position.. and is more offensive by nature. BJJ puts more emphasis on the bottom game/position and is more defensive by nature. Submission Grappling techniques are simply offshoots of both styles (and the styles influenced by them).
yoshiofdeath 1 year ago
@JKT6 Historically, it's the progenator to submission grappling... sub grappling came from Shoot Wrestling and Shooto... which came from CACC (Karl Gotch, Lou Thesz, Billy Robinson, Fujiwara, etc. taught the Japenese through the decades). As for BJJ's relationship, Count Koma (Mitsuya Maeda), who taught Helio and Carlos Gracie in Brazil trained in Judo and in Catch Wrestling and competed in both back in the day. Most modern grappling styles are tied to one another in some fashion.
yoshiofdeath 1 year ago
@yoshiofdeath Would a lot of CACC techniques(Grips,take downs and setups work with Judo gi's?
samluke8121 1 year ago
@samluke8121 sure. The limbs are still under the gis, so you can still use the same setups and techniques. I find, though, that including Judo grips on the gis enhances the techniques, too; so, basically, I'd say combine the CACC techniques/grips WITH the Judo grips on the gis (mix them up, in other words), and you have a great arsenal to work with.
yoshiofdeath 1 year ago
@JKT6 lastly... as far as Gi vs NoGi... CACC practitioners' uniforms are whatever works but are not unlike amateur wresters (specifically with the wrestling shoes).. but everything closely resembles NoGi grappling... while cross-training with BJJ stylists who do wear GI, I find that the grips in CACC and even Judo work very well against uniforms, but that's a modification...
yoshiofdeath 1 year ago
thank you. this is REAL wrestling
sycho76 1 year ago
@yoshiofdeath
Why did they call it "catch as catch can" ?
emanresu81 1 year ago
@emanresu81 it's an OLD term that stems from catching whatever hold or submission you can when you can however you can... the term came from Great Britain originally...
yoshiofdeath 1 year ago
Carlos Newton had an 8 hour class condensed into 5:45 seconds on his ass....
aperez515 1 year ago
I seriously can't stop replaying that cartwheel move he does at 0:08 sec its seriously amazing
MEK312456 1 year ago
@MEK312456 give it a try in your next sparring/rolling session (just don't let your partner know you're going to do it)... it works... but it's one of those one-time things that works against a different opponent each time... training partners will get wise to it REAL quick and just circle under you each time afterward
yoshiofdeath 1 year ago
@yoshiofdeath after a really long time of watching it im acctually gunna try it during a wrestling match idk if it will work but i have faith in it and ill keep practicing lol. nice vid btw
MEK312456 1 year ago
Gracie's who is your Daddy??
BJJWESTAQP 1 year ago
nice vid! would be cool to see an analysis of his fight with Tiger Vernon White.
Milachku 1 year ago
Honestly i can say that catch wrestling = amazing wrestling
i never knew about catch wrestling alot before but now im going to take it up with all my power. i also train in kyokushin, kung fu and freestyle wrestling, but catch is going to be in the mix!!
kftkft 1 year ago
Awesome analysis of the fight, please post more!!!
w10438 1 year ago
i've seen GSP use alot of these techniques liek the tk dwn defense with the modifyed whizzer. Looks like it takes alot of athleticism though. BJJ can be done without bein crazy atheletic.
Stifledsubmission 1 year ago
very interesting,good work indeed
Anders2989 1 year ago
Kazushi is a Master Wrestler. Carlos looks lost throughout, and he is an Amazing Wrestler himself.
ASSBANG6969 1 year ago
I don't see why Lesnar is being listed as a catch wrestler. He's an elite college wrestler who has a BJJ world champ as part of his team along with the usual boxing/ muay thai coach that most fighters have.
Nice video! It's always good to see how techniques are used in a real fight.
mmabbr 1 year ago
Really awesome stuff.
I don't think anyone in MMA has a better single leg than Saku.
familyphotoshoot 1 year ago
I really need to look into this guy, 'cause Carlos Newton is no joke to be handling like this. No joke at all. This is pretty amazing that he's able to maintain his ground so well on the ground with such a GREAT wrestler.
choochoogoesit 1 year ago
@choochoogoesit never heard of Saku before seeing this?
panther2552 1 year ago
@panther2552 Nah man.
choochoogoesit 1 year ago
@choochoogoesit wow, hehe always cool to see someone first learning about him.
panther2552 1 year ago
@panther2552 :)
choochoogoesit 1 year ago
whoever votes "catch wrestling" should adapt and become more of a rounded MMA technique including striking put thumbs up! How much cooler would it be if Sakuraba threw technical strikes whilst using "catch wrestling" techniques? He would win many more fights
5rsouth 1 year ago
@5rsouth the majority of his losses have more to do with Size than striking. At an elite level, size does matter. Saku actually did have pretty good striking against men his size and had very good technical striking with his feet. once you get over 20lbs though that power becomes reduced and most of his losses came to men 30-50lbs heavier.
panther2552 1 year ago
@panther2552 I realize that bro I am a huge sakuraba fan myself... seen all of his free videos of fights and watched some. This is why I think if he joined a fighting camp more strike based added along with his prior catch wrestling in the UFC ring he would be way more well rounded. If he could or would join a camp like Anderson Silva's camp or Chuck Liddells camp just for striking, I Guarantee he would be UFC heavyweight champion within 6 fights. straight up. IDC lesnar fans it would happen
5rsouth 1 year ago
@5rsouth actually he did. He trained at Chute Box aswell
panther2552 1 year ago
I'd love to see if you guys got a hold of sakuraba's instructional video - a lot of the techniques you are talking about are illustrated well. I have a VHS copy
Jaysohn008 1 year ago
Awesome stuff.
How popular is catch wrestling nowadays?
christahfour 1 year ago
@christahfour gaining... thanks to Scientific Wrestling (Jake Shannon, Billy Robinson, Josh Barnett, Eric Paulson, Sakuraba, Minowa, Kris Iaskevitch, Brock Lesnar, now Randy Couture...) efforts... it was the most popular grappling art around the late 1800s and early 1900s... I think it's coming back... it's becoming the next BJJ.
yoshiofdeath 1 year ago
@yoshiofdeath imo both will learn from each other to the point where its so hard to tell the dif between them when there is no gi
put a gi ona catch guy and its all over :P
lagook 1 year ago
This match was great :) Thanks for the analysis of Sakuraba during this as well. Lovely video.
SimonHenrichsen 1 year ago
This is one of the best instructional videos, because it shows movements used in an actual fight. Thanks for making this available!
barraca3 1 year ago
Saku's fuckin' badass!
td82394 1 year ago
Amazing video...Saku is one of my favourite fighters of all time. I'm a Judo-ka, and I've always wanted to study CACC. Too bad it's very difficult to find where I'm from. :\
wildchilde69 1 year ago
I like the way the video was uploaded. Its like viewing an old movie from the 1920's.
waterfordel 1 year ago
@waterfordel hmmm... I shoulda' converted EVERYTHING to black and white to complete the effect.. didn't even think of that... :-)
yoshiofdeath 1 year ago
@yoshiofdeath dude, this is the most perfect fight analysis video anywhere in youtube, I've watched it like a bazillion times. You should do many, many, many, many, MANY more of these. Thanks and greetings from Santo Domingo!
fookiemonster 1 year ago
@fookiemonster can do! :-)
yoshiofdeath 1 year ago
One of the Greatest Mixed Martial Artist's of all time!
masondarko 1 year ago
CACC Direct/Shared Influence on:
- Freestyle Wrestling
- Professional Wrestling (especially)
- Shooto
- Shoot Wrestling
- Shootfighting
- Brazillian Jiu Jitsu (Maeda trained/competed in Kodokan Judo and CACC around the world)
yoshiofdeath 1 year ago
@yoshiofdeath "Maeda trained/competed in Kodokan Judo and CACC around the world"
He trained in middle school Judo? That's all Kodokan Judo meant. School judo. It wasn't a different style of judo, it was just lacking the throws to avoid injury to students in middle school.
As for training in CACC, I know he rolled with them, but there wasn't any moves in their syllabus that didn't already exist in Judo at the time.
I'm a big CACC fan and want to learn it, but try to use confirmed facts.
ResidentNinja 1 year ago
@ResidentNinja To reflect this, he replaced justu (technique) in the word "ju-jutsu" with the suffix do (path) to create a new name for his art: judo. His training hall he named "Ko-do-kan," or "a place to teach the path." <-- I'm aware of what Kodokan means. Kodokan is emphasized for its place of origin.
yoshiofdeath 1 year ago
648 BC - Pankration (Greece) - various
1600s - Jujutsu (Japan) - various
1800s - Catch-as-Catch-Can Wrestling (England/America) - various (folkstyle/ collar&elbow)
1800s - "Greco-Roman Wrestling" (Greece) - various (Pankration)
1800s-1900s - Freestyle Wrestling - various
1882 - Judo (Japan) - Jigoro Kano
1914 - Brazillian Jiu Jitsu (Brazil c/o Japan) - Mitsuyo Maeda (Judo/CACC) - Carlos/Helio Gracie
1923 - Sambo founded (Russia) - Spiridonov (Judo/Karate/folkstyle wrestling)
yoshiofdeath 1 year ago
Ironically, the best way to defeat a catch wrestler is by catching him with a punch.
Otherwise, you'll get tooled like in this clinic performance by saku.
shoegazer666 1 year ago
@shoegazer666 the best way to defeat a puncher is with catch wrestling.
forbesfoofighters 1 year ago
@forbesfoofighters your wrong.
shoegazer666 1 year ago
@shoegazer666 excuse me? i believe you are the one who is wrong. the best way to beat a grappler is striking and visa versa, so what better a style of grappling than wrestling that includes all the principals of BJJ? a good striker beats a catch wrestler any day but a good catch wrestler will always beat a striker.
forbesfoofighters 1 year ago
@forbesfoofighters TL;DR
shoegazer666 1 year ago
@forbesfoofighters
very well put i completely agree!!!
kftkft 1 year ago
Wauw, many of these moves can be credited to nearly ALL grappling arts. I mean, I know that sakuraba is a CACC (and Shooto) fighter but credit something universal like "arm control" and "palms on torso" to CACC is pretty lame...
Dvalb 1 year ago
Is CW recommended for a smaller person for dealing with an stronger street thug? Or is BJJ better for that?
How is catch compared to Russian Sambo?
CrowdPleeza 2 years ago
Catch is so old that it certainly influenced other styles in one fashion or another (like Sambo). It puts just as much emphasis on legwork as Sambo (minus the strikes/gouges/etc. from Military Sambo, of course). Personally, I prefer BOTH BJJ and CACC because they complete both halves of the same whole (increases the odds for size differences that way) <-- I'm a little dude
yoshiofdeath 2 years ago
Why in God's name can't there be a Catch school in NYC??!?!?!?
It's so frustrating!!!!!
ErikPaulsonFan 1 year ago
@ErikPaulsonFan It will come someday, but until then I recommend you to train at "New York City Combat Sambo". Stephen Koepfer does a lot of seminaries in Canada along Kris Iatskevitch, a well known catch wrestling coach. I'm sure he incorporated more catch in his sambo. For your information, catch wrestling is one of the "ancestors" of sambo.
XereZz 1 year ago
@XereZz I've heard there are elements of Catch in Sambo, but from what I see, it's most throwing like Judo, and some groundwork like BJJ.
Koepfer knows catch???
ErikPaulsonFan 1 year ago
@ErikPaulsonFan Sambo is a lot more than that. It would be hard to go through it under 500 characters ;) And Koepfer did a few seminaries along a catch wrestling coach in Quebec, Kris Iatskevich. Koepfer is not officially a catch wrestler, but he did train a couple of times in catch wrestling, and catch wrestling is one of the basis of Sambo. There's a lot of similarities.. even if there's still differences between the approaches. I found it easy to do the transition from sambo to catch btw ;)
XereZz 1 year ago
i know nothing about catch wrestling, we have little to none here in Brazil, same goes to sambo,
but in matters of BJJ, i believe it fit's very well to smaller people, i recomend it,
i don't know how it works in your country, but in Brazil, some schools teach both ground and standing martial arts, mostly BJJ and Muay Thai,
sometimes mma.
but i tell you one thing, after BJJ you wont need pretty much anything else, only if you're aspiring to compete in mma competitions.
masondarko 1 year ago
@masondarko
my friend trust me its not a matter of learning BJJ and then you dont need anything, thats wrong why, because there are other arts that teach what BJJ has and a hell of a lot more. its all about what kind of a fighter you want to be and how complete you wanna be.
kftkft 1 year ago
I can tell you that all 3 styles are great. But fighting is more dynamic than just style vs style, Arguments can be made for any one of these styles, and why might one have a distinct advantage over the other. But it's always up to the fighter, a fighter's mental(will to fighter and discipline), physical and technical abilities always factor into a fight. lacking any of these department might hurt u in a fight, and don't forget about striking!
viet1098 1 year ago
@CrowdPleeza take Shooto because it's ground is English Catch Wrestling, Japanese Judo, and Russian Sambo with stand up Muay Thai and Japanese Kickboxing. It is a very complete MMA style. BJJ will only teach you ground and is not suitable against multiple opponents and the big guy can overcome a Jujitsu fighter so it's better to take Shooto and be more well rounded in Martial Arts.
mrricepaddy 1 year ago
@CrowdPleeza I'm an ex-sambist converted to catch, and my 1st grappling sport was BJJ. I know well each of them. Let me tell you that they all complete each other, but some stuff is more useful for street defense. BJJ is all about ground work. That's not where u wanna be in a street fight. On the other hand, both sambo and catch wrestling got a good stand up game, and they teach "dirty tricks" for street defense for both of them. So both catch and sambo are good arts as self defense techniques.
XereZz 1 year ago
Thanks mate, this was briliant! Excellent work. Made my Monday.
Sutemi 2 years ago
(I accidentally deleted someone's post in here - my apologies!) I'll respond anyway: CACC is growing. It's going to take time, but you're going to see it flourish like it did back in the last turn of the century. Folks like Sakuraba, Minowa, Josh Barnett, Randy Couture (who's now cross-training in Catch).. and coaches like Billy Robinson, Jake Shannon, Billy Wicks, Fujiwara, etc... will help perpetuate it all the more. You have to travel far to get training on it, but it's worth it.
yoshiofdeath 2 years ago
...Iaskevitch, Dick Cardinal... now, there's a whole new generation of CACC coaches coming up the ranks: Jesse Marez (CA)... Sam Kressin (CA)... Alex Cook (UK)... a whole host of names are cropping out there...
yoshiofdeath 2 years ago
Sakuraba demostrated the effectiveness of Catch Wrestling when he fought the Gracies, espicially Royce. As good as BJJ is and how good Royce is on the ground, espcially when he`s wearing his GI, Sakuraba almost effortlessly threw him around and stuffed his submission attempts and at a few points, used the GI against Royce. I train in submission grappling and MMA here in the UK, but my club are more into BJJ. I only wish there were more Catch Wrestling clubs around.
criticalbill1983 2 years ago
I really love CACCW I'd take it instead of bjj anytime (not to be disrespectful to bjj) and saku was the man
bangermccrusher 2 years ago
@bangermccrusher - I don't think it's really a matter of respect or disrespect, but, personally, I get a benefit out of training in BOTH systems---being a small guy.
yoshiofdeath 2 years ago
thanks for the upload. I am a white belt in bjj and your annotations really helped me appreciate his genius.
thanks again mate
memento18poker 2 years ago
@memento18poker more to come!
yoshiofdeath 2 years ago
esse japa e sinistro no chão sou fã dele
gesop1 2 years ago
superb. All the position defenses and then the toehold to roll to opposite leg knee bar at the end--super stuff.
MarquisDeSexy 2 years ago
Saku is amazing. Does he have his own school? I wish I could train with the dude.
Robopencil 2 years ago
He has training vids out (probably have to go through Ebay to get 'em like I did - mine are VHS copies), but there are a couple of clips from them floating around on YouTube.
yoshiofdeath 2 years ago
Comment removed
Robopencil 2 years ago
wow
dowhatthouwilt911 2 years ago
Amazing
MattitudeSupporter 2 years ago 9
I just completed another tremendous CACC training program with Billy Robinson and Jake Shannon in Salt Lake City, UT. Wow... it's mind boggling how much content there is.. all the little details... the difference turning just 45 degrees can do... or turning your forearm UP... or turning your toes in the direction you're rolling your opponent.. or pushing your body weight over the back of the head instead of the back of the neck... that's what CACC is all about, man...
yoshiofdeath 2 years ago
@yoshieofdeath -- I've seen some of the SW videos here on Youtube. My advice? Go to a summer amateur wrestling camp instead. Because "all the little details" you are learning are the techniques taught to pro wrestlers. That is, you are learning what's called "working holds." They may work for you, they may not. But you'd be better served learning how to move than learning loose submissions.
palindabomb 2 years ago
I think 10pjj and CW would compliment each other very well 10pjj has a very good bottom game I tried it but hate the fact that they are so focused on pulling guard which cw doesn't have such a problem with. but in grappling competions if I would know both really well I would use cw to get top and control and if I was outmached would resort to attacks from guard and half guard from 10pjj......... street fight wouldn't even think of using 10pjj tho cross training is where its at
JustToletUknow 2 years ago
@JustToletUknow Thats what I was thinking, ive been watching CACC dvds and reading up on it and ive really taken to it and i thought it would mesh well with 10th pjj, so just gonna try and see how it goes combining the two lol
ElTomPed 2 years ago
@ElTomPed hey, as you progress, post that stuff.. share your thoughts on the subject.... we'd be very interested. Side note: there's a vid of one of the CACC guys rolling with Eddie Bravo and demo'ing an Indian Deathlock on a Half Guard attempt by Eddie (can't remember the 10th Planet term though).
yoshiofdeath 2 years ago
[JustToletUknow Repost after accidental removal]
Well ElTomPed im starting catchwrestling in a week to bully my 10 pjj teammates lol I did freestyle wrestling and placed regionaly and provincially so i should be transition smoothly. Also can you yoshiofdeath show a link of eddie bravo attempting the "lockdown" on a cacc practionar thanx
yoshiofdeath 2 years ago
@JustToletUknow LockDown! Thank you... my BJJ training partner would probably toss a rash guard shirt at me for forgetting that term... I'll try to dig that vid up. You're going to Salt Lake, this coming weekend, right?
yoshiofdeath 2 years ago
The more i see catch wrestling, the more i believe it's more appropriate for MMA.
it's more aggressive, it's no gi, it's compliments the physical attributes of fighters, where as bjj is more for the physically "inferior" to use on the physically "superior".
would most catch wrestlers agree that it's more fit for MMA?
abcdenoerrors 2 years ago 5
Ironically, it's BECAUSE of MMA that Catch Wrestling is making its comeback. Prior to the fame of UFC and Dream and Pride, CACC was being kept alive in Japan (Karl Gotch/Billy Robinson/ Lou Thesz/ Fujiwara/etc. were coaching the competitors in Shooto, Pro, etc.). With techniques like knee levers, "sawing" against biceps, knees on jawbones, small joint manipulations, it's a good fit for MMA.
yoshiofdeath 2 years ago
What do you think of 10th Planet jiu jitsu. I'm curious because alot of the 10th Planet submissions are very unorthodox & unusual, a little similar to catch wrestling. IMO, I believe it's best to abandon the gi once you've become a black belt. I honestly prefer no-gi over gi
titosuave21 2 years ago
10th planet is in no way similar to catch wrestling other than the fact that they are "unorthodox" as you said.
sjl36 2 years ago
@sjl36 True. I like Bjj but catch wrestling seems very interesting. I honestly prefer no-gi over gi but I just train in the gi just for my ranking.
titosuave21 2 years ago
i've been really wanting to get into catch wrestling, but i dont think there are any schools around my area. and definitely not around my price. which instructional videos would you recommend?
i dont think the greats like karl gotch or gene lebel have too many videos out. I know Eric paulson has a loooooot of videos. so does tony cecchine, but i've read on scientific wrestling that he's a fake. may just be a marketing ploy, but what do you think?
abcdenoerrors 2 years ago
W.A.R. is awesome... anything by Fujiwara is awesome... the Conceptual Syllabus (all of the above is at Scientific Wrestling's website) is awesome... if you can find it, Sakuraba has an instructional series out that's incredible (I just have it on VHS). CACC is just now making a comeback, so expect MORE material to come out, soon.
yoshiofdeath 2 years ago
hey yoshi, im a bjj blue belt and have been training it for a couple years, and since there arent any schools in my area, do you reccomend watching instructional dvd's and blending techniques from both? or do they sort of contradict the other?
sjl36 2 years ago
I don't believe they contradict one another... I really don't... I honestly believe they compliment one another (that's what I'm doing right now - CACC and BJJ). Scientific Wrestling's main website has all the instructional CACC DVDs you'll need - I also recommend Kris Iaskevitch's DVDs.
yoshiofdeath 2 years ago
I'm thinking of buying W.A.R ....do you think a person can really learn the basics and the intermediate of catch wrestling with it?
How much did you pay???
Brunochavesj 2 years ago
No... I don't believe you can learn the BASICS from W.A.R. because that was more geared to the advanced grappling level (although it DOES cover some of the basics along with the advanced stuff). I DO recommend getting it, regardless, however. I got it at a discount because I'm a member of Scientific Wrestling.
yoshiofdeath 2 years ago