CLIMBING TOOLS: Taking in coils

[outdoorcrazy]

Mike, in what situations do you use this method versus tying in using a fishermans on a bite and using a lap coil and storing them in your pack?

[mikebarter387]

@outdoorcrazy This I would use when changeing rope lenghts often. An example would be coming off a glacier then walking on a exposed ridge. When I am short roping clients or freinds and I need them close to me but can't be hanging onto a bunch of coils. Moving together then suddenly I hit a short technical section I can drop coils place gear belay second up then quickly take in coils and keep moveing. It is a real handy tool and worth knowing.

[outdoorcrazy]

@mikebarter387 Thanks for the quick reply.

So why not use this method all the time? Seems like this would completely replace tying in with a fishermans and storing your rope in your pack using a lap coil.

[Ilovewinter]

Thank you this has really helped me refresh after 10 plus years of being away from this was in my teens back then, now I am 28 almost 29, and I have felt the call of the Mountains again. This time I am serious about it, and I would like to make a push to do Everest, but my dream is really K2 I love to climb, did a local Mtn. no ropes or gear, should have had my axe but either way being on 75 degree slopes in just my boots was enough I made summit. but will take an axe and rope next time.

[acrazedmaniac]

i always tie my harness to the rope with a locking biner..esp. ice climbing. Much faster to change ropes, or manage (aka in and out)..esp. when it drops temp. and everything goes solid. Ya, i know...i have a 'special' harness biner.

[mikebarter387]

Honestly I don't know why you would do that. Yes you explained but I don't understand the need. If it works for you thats good. maybe you should examine why your changing ropes so much that you have to do this. I'm assuming your a casual climber and not a guide. I also do not like to add links to the system if not required.

The Mike

[acrazedmaniac]

usually changing leads. last in , first out. very handy and much faster then. and when guiding, OR taking someone for their first ever, very handy, cause they are dealing with so much at first, tieing a fig 8 in your face is much easier to do right, staying in w/your daisy backup as you change rope ends,asin hanging belays! an emergency, or someones screw up. much easier to get em out and onto something else. If extra links are a problem,it is usually only one link (biner)that saves your fall.

[mikebarter387]

Must be a regional thing. If I have a first timer on a multi-route that means I have plenty of time. I will often assign clients or friend a task while I grab gear off their harness and rerack. During which time explain whats coming and what to expect. I have climbed the longest ice routes in the world and never found a need for this procedure that you are describing. But that may just be me.

[mikebarter387]

Sorry buy I do not recommend teaching new climbers to clip and unclip from the rope or to be landing on biners. I personally stopped using a daisy chain about 20 years ago. When tied to the rope correctly it is a piece of equipment that has a lot more options. If I need to clip in otherwise a simple double lenght sling girth hitched to my belay loop is all I use these days. If what your doing works for you fine but it certianly is not the norm in this area or anywhere else I've been.

[kammernator]

thanks for the video- I like the slow-mo, the clarity of the video, and the reasons for  coiling in.

[icejunki]

JUST A QUESTION FOR YOU: If I'm on a trip that doesn't include glacier travel but a rope is necessary, how do you feel about a 30 meter 8mm rope (like the Edelweiss Discover sold at REI)?

[mikebarter387]

Depends on what your doing with theh rope. what are you doing with a 30m 8 mil. Not technically climbing. I may have at times used such a rope to control clients but even then I usually carry a extra thick rope cause it just feels better in my hand. Not enough info to give you much of a answer

The Mike

[acrazedmaniac]

Are you talking about the feel of the rope (hand), or the safety of a thicker rope..cut resistance, and wear? i used to only climb w/ 11mm, now 10.5 or 10. on big walls, nothing beats a 11mm, esp. when raping over, over hangs and sharp rocks.

now days..thats "old school" im told...im old! never been hurt climbing, and 55 trips around the sun now! have seen about 500+ climbing days, and 20+ new routes. or over 150 new pitches...full 150m. pitches. not that much, but mostly on a 11mm rope,50m long

[mikebarter387]

I have a couple old ropes that I use to short rope with that are suppose to be 11mm but feel more like 12.5 mm. I am talking about thickness in the terms og feel in my hand. I doubt that I would be technically climbing with a 30m rope. Maybe just never have.? Of course thicker ropes are safer of sharp edges and such. I change ropes for the job at hand so I don't have one answer.

[icejunki]

Thanks for mentioning that when you arrive at tying the overhand at the end that you next tighten it all up so the weight is on your harness. Other methods I've seen like in Freedom Of the Hills leave the coils loose and a figure eight loose followed by using prussiks. I didn't have a preference until I attempted to replicate several methods and realized that your methods is the cleanest, more comfortable method especially when the coils are well wrapped and the slack is snugged at the end.

[mikebarter387]

Thanks

[beatlust]

awesome vids.

[mikebarter387]

abseil loop

[AdventureTells]

Excellent video.. I agree that an overhand knot would be most suitable..

Just one thing..

When tying off the coils, should you run the bite through the abseil loop on the harness? or the rope loop? Or both? Cheers..

[mikebarter387]

Absel loop only

[haourss]

Good stuff. One question; Has this method any disadvantages if the second climber falls? Some leaders use prussik knot in order to carry the load on their harness and prevent the coil to pull them of balance if the second falls. What´s your opinion on that?

[mikebarter387]

If notice how it is tyed off you will see that when the second falls it pulls from the harness not the coils. Sort of the point of the video is to demo a safe easy way to shorten up the rope. This I think is better and faster then putting prusiiks off and on.

[mikebarter387]

no disadvantage. It pulls on teh harness same as the prussik would or the rope end that you are tied into.

[rarbiart]

How many times do you repeat this statement? Sounds a bit like a disfunctional record.

[ApacheSearcher]

radical!!!

[mchilds83]

Great video, this by far beats waiting months for the next mountain education course.

[ryanrandumb]

is it better to put a figure 8 on the leading end so you can take out coils in the event the rope is loaded?

[mikebarter387]

No a over head is fine. You will have to make a load transfet to some sort of anchor before untyeing the knot. Not sure what a figure 8 would look like.

Mike

[naeneck]

Mike - your array of videos are truly excellent! Please keep them coming - great refreshers for people coming into climbing and an incentive to get out onto routes asap!:-))

[Marty369]

Exellent, as stated much better than a diagram. Nice refresher

[GardensOfStone]

Well done. Better than looking at diagrams in a book.