Aft cg's will cause a tougher stall recovery and even a flat spin. Effective elevator pitch is needed to recover from aft cg's since the rear weight wants to keep the nose up. Without the normal elevator range from the improper maintenance done, the elevator became useless in this situation because of the low airspeed over the airfoil not allowing it to pitch the nose down. By this time the stall was imminent and at that low of altitude and breaking into a spin, there was no way of recovering.
1:26 co pilot tells captain to push nose down, she does not, he takes over and don't push nose down either, 1:31 she yells him push nose down, neither does, she yells loud instead. let plane stalls full power on. As simple as that. Neither could push nose down? Other crews did and didn't stall. This crew panicked and even pulled on wheel while stalling. Just like the Buffalo Dash-8 stall from 2,000 feet down to a house. Panic Pull Stall. One of hundreds each year in USA, most on smaller planes.
@dustoff86 Not only I read the report and CVR/FDR but also I teach how to avoid that kind of stall for years. They just sat there winning that the nose had to be pushed down like a man should do but they were afraid of it and just waited for the stall while screaming like little girls do. Post a video you doing that.
I have one since 1995 cutting engine at 50 feet agl and landing straight ahead on runway and with a crosswind too. So you are the one is wrong. Read better. I will post
Seriously. Apparently you have no idea what happened. Yes, the CG was overloaded and past the aft position. The plane did however respond normally until the gear was raised and shifted the weight even farther aft. This caused a severe pitch up of the nose of the plane. With the improper maintenance on the horizontal stabilizer, the crew couldn't get the nose down even if they pitched down, which they probably did seeing as the high nose pitch they were at. Oh, I'm a CFI also.
I have flown many airplanes with CG off back, you just have to push nose down and trim down and they fly well. Actually, they cruise faster that way. Cargo pilots do it a lot. If you don't, it will stall like in this video. They were screaming to push the nose down and neither did. Others had 9 take off and landings before (READ), and just did that. But this crew were just sitting there waiting for plane to do anything. I know CFI's that can't push nose down if low.
Wow, we are a bit overloaded, wow, that will make me not release some back pressure and avoid the nose from yanking up, wow what do i do we are stalling. Some Pipipilots. They just let the nose jerk up and didn't push down to correct the pitch. Just sat there whinning like girls and let it stall. Nine other pilot landings and take offs were good, but this crew just panicked and even pulled wheel instead of pushing it. Some pilots. They panicked and stalled it on their own hangar, killing all.
Do they not do a one time test flight after flight surface maint. in the airline world ???? I worked on planes for 21 years performing avionics maint. and other airframe work on military and civilian planes....The military does test flights after certain types of maint is performed. A rated test pilot flies it before the plane is released for student training...I also rebuilt crashed caravans and those too got full test flights before going to their owners...
@avionicswirenut They did test the flight surfaces after it was fixed; in fact, it flew NINE times in this condition. However, the airplane WAS overloaded (if you haven't watched this on Air Crash Emergency, you need to see it to get the magnitude of what the NTSB found when they used actual passenger and baggage weights instead of a 70-year-old formula)--IIRC, they were 70 lbs. too heavy.
Clickclickspacebar?? What type of name is that. I have watched the NTSB documentary regardingthis matter, weight was determined to be the probable cause. If you dont agree dont insult. Disagreeing is more adult like. I will stick to my view.
Clickclickspacebar?? What type of name is that. I have watched the NTSB documentary regardingthis matter, weight was determined to be the probable cause. If you dont agree dont insult. Disagreeing is more adult like. I will stick to my view.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
the airplane's loss of pitch control during take-off. The loss of pitch control resulted from the incorrect rigging of the elevator system compounded by the airplane's aft center of gravity, which was substaintially aft of the certified aft limit.
I saw a documentary on this one; weight was NOT a factor, and the misrigged elevator limiting forward travel would not have been necessary had the aircraft not been loaded aft of it's CG limit. Conventionally configured fixed-wing aircraft are basically teeter-totters; your center-of-lift is the fulcrum in the center, one kid is gravity, the other child elevator.
Incorrect loading was one factor in the accident; the other was incorrect maintenance that resulted in reduced elevator movement (the elevator controls the aircraft in pitch). Coupled with the aft centre of gravity (weight too far back essentially unbalancing the aircraft), the reduced amount of elevator movement could not bring the aircraft's nose down when it over-pitched. A classic combination of errors causing an accident.
Weight was a factor in the accident but it was not an overweight pax. The a/c had recently undergone mx and the turnbuckles for the elevator control cables were set incorrectly.
The crew figured their weight and balance to be with limits, however, the pax weight estimates were outdated and incorrect, and the a/c was actually overloaded.
@antimatterXXXIII It doesn't matter if I'm at work or not--that is what is drilled in my head I always write that way...Can't believe you felt the need to comment on abbreviations but I'll keep that in mind the next time I write a comment about Aviation. Have a Great Day!
@Gr3harrier one passenger doesnt put the c of g out so far the plane goes out of control you dumb fuck. the company was using out-dated weights. they must have been really far off the new ones because the 1900 is a beast of an airplane. it will pretty much do anything. you can slow it down in a straight nose down attitude. get your facts straight.
Clickclickspacebar?? What type of name is that. I have watched the NTSB documentary regardingthis matter, weight was determined to be the probable cause. If you dont agree dont insult. Disagreeing is more adult like. I will stick to my view.
Aft cg's will cause a tougher stall recovery and even a flat spin. Effective elevator pitch is needed to recover from aft cg's since the rear weight wants to keep the nose up. Without the normal elevator range from the improper maintenance done, the elevator became useless in this situation because of the low airspeed over the airfoil not allowing it to pitch the nose down. By this time the stall was imminent and at that low of altitude and breaking into a spin, there was no way of recovering.
MaroonCamaro 4 weeks ago
It's amazing how this company skimped on maintenance but they spared no expense hiring the best PR firm to sweep this accident under the radar.
MGR1900 1 month ago
1:26 co pilot tells captain to push nose down, she does not, he takes over and don't push nose down either, 1:31 she yells him push nose down, neither does, she yells loud instead. let plane stalls full power on. As simple as that. Neither could push nose down? Other crews did and didn't stall. This crew panicked and even pulled on wheel while stalling. Just like the Buffalo Dash-8 stall from 2,000 feet down to a house. Panic Pull Stall. One of hundreds each year in USA, most on smaller planes.
CFITOMAHAWK 4 months ago
@CFITOMAHAWK
Wow you could not be more wrong on what happened... please read the report and educate yourself.
dustoff86 2 months ago
@dustoff86 Not only I read the report and CVR/FDR but also I teach how to avoid that kind of stall for years. They just sat there winning that the nose had to be pushed down like a man should do but they were afraid of it and just waited for the stall while screaming like little girls do. Post a video you doing that.
I have one since 1995 cutting engine at 50 feet agl and landing straight ahead on runway and with a crosswind too. So you are the one is wrong. Read better. I will post
CFITOMAHAWK 2 months ago
@CFITOMAHAWK
Seriously. Apparently you have no idea what happened. Yes, the CG was overloaded and past the aft position. The plane did however respond normally until the gear was raised and shifted the weight even farther aft. This caused a severe pitch up of the nose of the plane. With the improper maintenance on the horizontal stabilizer, the crew couldn't get the nose down even if they pitched down, which they probably did seeing as the high nose pitch they were at. Oh, I'm a CFI also.
MaroonCamaro 1 month ago in playlist NTSB and FAA Aviation Investigation Animations
@MaroonCamaro
I have flown many airplanes with CG off back, you just have to push nose down and trim down and they fly well. Actually, they cruise faster that way. Cargo pilots do it a lot. If you don't, it will stall like in this video. They were screaming to push the nose down and neither did. Others had 9 take off and landings before (READ), and just did that. But this crew were just sitting there waiting for plane to do anything. I know CFI's that can't push nose down if low.
CFITOMAHAWK 4 weeks ago
Wow, we are a bit overloaded, wow, that will make me not release some back pressure and avoid the nose from yanking up, wow what do i do we are stalling. Some Pipipilots. They just let the nose jerk up and didn't push down to correct the pitch. Just sat there whinning like girls and let it stall. Nine other pilot landings and take offs were good, but this crew just panicked and even pulled wheel instead of pushing it. Some pilots. They panicked and stalled it on their own hangar, killing all.
CFITOMAHAWK 4 months ago
What's this Flight Simulator ?
VinzAirlines 7 months ago
Do they not do a one time test flight after flight surface maint. in the airline world ???? I worked on planes for 21 years performing avionics maint. and other airframe work on military and civilian planes....The military does test flights after certain types of maint is performed. A rated test pilot flies it before the plane is released for student training...I also rebuilt crashed caravans and those too got full test flights before going to their owners...
avionicswirenut 7 months ago
@avionicswirenut They did test the flight surfaces after it was fixed; in fact, it flew NINE times in this condition. However, the airplane WAS overloaded (if you haven't watched this on Air Crash Emergency, you need to see it to get the magnitude of what the NTSB found when they used actual passenger and baggage weights instead of a 70-year-old formula)--IIRC, they were 70 lbs. too heavy.
scarletsmith 6 months ago
weight and balance kids...weight and balance......oh and Icing is a bitch too.. don't put up with her B.S.
beatchildproductions 8 months ago
damnit...why do i always watch these videos? I want my mommy...
beatchildproductions 8 months ago
this happen due to the back ward wings i heard this is a show name as air crash investigation.......
keshav15157 8 months ago
@keshav15157 How old are you?
theevilmeister 8 months ago
@theevilmeister im 13 years old
keshav15157 6 months ago
this happen due to the back ward wings i heard this is a show name as air crash investigation........
keshav15157 8 months ago
The "Positive rate... Gear up" sequence was a bit soon, no?
sardanaphalus 9 months ago
They calculated it wrong. That was what happened.
airportfreak747 10 months ago
shitbag operator........that was the cause
beergut111 1 year ago
Minimum wage outsourced aircraft maintenance was the cause
muszles 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The Captain was a women
mlotek9 1 year ago
@mlotek9 so?
skygirl1990 1 year ago
If there is a woman on the flight deck your chances of being in an accident go up 40%
mlotek9 10 months ago
Comment removed
skygirl1990 10 months ago
@skygirl1990
Did you actually read what you just wrote?
Westwoooooooood 10 months ago
Too much cholesterol
zigaretos 1 year ago
Clickclickspacebar?? What type of name is that. I have watched the NTSB documentary regardingthis matter, weight was determined to be the probable cause. If you dont agree dont insult. Disagreeing is more adult like. I will stick to my view.
Gr3harrier 1 year ago
Clickclickspacebar?? What type of name is that. I have watched the NTSB documentary regardingthis matter, weight was determined to be the probable cause. If you dont agree dont insult. Disagreeing is more adult like. I will stick to my view.
Gr3harrier 1 year ago
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
the airplane's loss of pitch control during take-off. The loss of pitch control resulted from the incorrect rigging of the elevator system compounded by the airplane's aft center of gravity, which was substaintially aft of the certified aft limit.
raveng60 1 year ago
I saw a documentary on this one; weight was NOT a factor, and the misrigged elevator limiting forward travel would not have been necessary had the aircraft not been loaded aft of it's CG limit. Conventionally configured fixed-wing aircraft are basically teeter-totters; your center-of-lift is the fulcrum in the center, one kid is gravity, the other child elevator.
negativewashout 1 year ago
it crashes in mid-air
KartKing4ever 1 year ago
One passenger's weight simply CAN'T do that - it can't change the CG that much.
klavss76 2 years ago
Incorrect loading was one factor in the accident; the other was incorrect maintenance that resulted in reduced elevator movement (the elevator controls the aircraft in pitch). Coupled with the aft centre of gravity (weight too far back essentially unbalancing the aircraft), the reduced amount of elevator movement could not bring the aircraft's nose down when it over-pitched. A classic combination of errors causing an accident.
Bus429 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
According to reports, this incident resulted as a result of overweight passenger sat at the rear of the plane. Weight was the cause.
Gr3harrier 2 years ago
Weight was a factor in the accident but it was not an overweight pax. The a/c had recently undergone mx and the turnbuckles for the elevator control cables were set incorrectly.
The crew figured their weight and balance to be with limits, however, the pax weight estimates were outdated and incorrect, and the a/c was actually overloaded.
zachb7 2 years ago 4
@zachb7 Using abbreviations like "pax" and "mx" in comments, is extremely ay. (That's an abbreviation for "annoying as hell").
antimatterXXXIII 1 year ago
@antimatterXXXIII Sorry my industry standard abbreviations are "ay" to you.
zachb7 1 year ago
@zachb7 Look I get it, but it's just not cool ok? I love planes too and know the jargon.
antimatterXXXIII 1 year ago
@antimatterXXXIII Sorry it's not 'cool' with You but I work in Aviation and that's how I type/write abbreviations everyday.
zachb7 1 year ago
@zachb7 Yeah but you are not at work. Neither are we.
antimatterXXXIII 1 year ago
@antimatterXXXIII It doesn't matter if I'm at work or not--that is what is drilled in my head I always write that way...Can't believe you felt the need to comment on abbreviations but I'll keep that in mind the next time I write a comment about Aviation. Have a Great Day!
zachb7 1 year ago
@zachb7 OK well you see a lot of this jargon over on PPRUNE, so I guess I'm overly sensitive about it - sorry. My bad. Carry on!
antimatterXXXIII 1 year ago
your stupid.
clickclickspacebar 2 years ago
@clickclickspacebar
Hey no offence. But its true.
Gr3harrier 1 year ago
@Gr3harrier one passenger doesnt put the c of g out so far the plane goes out of control you dumb fuck. the company was using out-dated weights. they must have been really far off the new ones because the 1900 is a beast of an airplane. it will pretty much do anything. you can slow it down in a straight nose down attitude. get your facts straight.
clickclickspacebar 1 year ago
@clickclickspacebar
Clickclickspacebar?? What type of name is that. I have watched the NTSB documentary regardingthis matter, weight was determined to be the probable cause. If you dont agree dont insult. Disagreeing is more adult like. I will stick to my view.
Gr3harrier 1 year ago
That would such ass if you were on that plane.
umahuma4 2 years ago
Did they have a problem with the hydraulics?
carlosgbc 2 years ago
No, the elevator cables were misadjusted and the c/g was incorrect
sidewalkpaver97 2 years ago 10