Dragon Age: Origins Immoral End Text (SPOILER)

[dude1454545]

I find it funny how people think Bhelen is the bad one Bhelen will open trade he will take back thaigs ((and push back the darkspawn to the deep trenches if you got golems)) harrowmont will have isolation ((if u also side with branka he will decline her more dwarves so she attacks the surface resulting in a small war with fereldan making orzammar more isolated))

[GSSAGE7]

@dude1454545 Bhelen vs. Harrowmont can be argued. Remember, Bhelen got his power by tricking the Warden. If you bring those papers to the Shaperate, you find out that Bhelen forged them. He's very much an "ends justify the means" kind of guy.

Besides, play as the Dwarf Noble, and you'll REALLY hate him.

[dude1454545]

@GSSAGE7 i played as noble and i still picked him id rather have a strong orzammar then be made paragon by harrowmont

[trax0002]

@dude1454545 i tried the game as human warrior and noble dwarf. it has the same plot that prince bhelen set-up duran, his brother, of killing prince trian. Both origin story point leads to this. Also, try finishing Harrowmont, Bhelen did not honor the decision of the paragon. While with bhelen being declared as king, Harrowmont announced his support to Bhelen but he was sentenced to death..

[dude1454545]

@trax0002 dude i beat the game at all possible outcomes bhelen is still the better choice even though in da2 you got to save a harrowmont from bhelens lackys

[Anonimicon]

@dude1454545 What people are saying isn't that he's a bad ruler, just a horrible, horrible person; especially to those who get in his way. For example, the things he does as ruler are great; he opens trade, reduces the restrictions of the castes (even the casteless, something that is completely unprecedented in dwarven society), and even MARRIES a casteless woman. It's when you get down to the things he did to GET there that make him "immoral".

[akatsukifanboy102]

@Anonimicon But he did so many wonderful works and improved so much that i think it is warrented that he is a good king if not a very good person or rather dwarf :p

[Anonimicon]

@akatsukifanboy102 You can't look at the end result in this case. You need to look at his actions up until then. He killed his eldest brother, exiled his second brother into the deep roads, forged a set of documents incriminating Harrowmont as giving promises that he couldn't keep (excluding the fact that he did indeed do that, it doesn't change facts that Bhelen is a jerk), and then went on to kill someone who gave him his full support as king.

[akatsukifanboy102]

@Anonimicon Harrowmont was going to plot rebellion, i could tell it would lead to that so i figure the decision to execute him was just securing a complete and lasting victory not just a act of spite. In the end Bhelen was just a politician nothing more. He made promises and slang mud to get himself upon the throne and in most cases he got there. The ends justisfy the means in this case i figure.

[Mrkti]

@dude1454545 indeed! i regreted picking the other one (can't remember his name) so much. i practically ruined the dwarf society. and the world above, indirectly...

[dude1454545]

@Mrkti Which is why ruthless warlords sometimes make better kings

[pikajohn]

WOW you did the exact opposite of what I did... You are an evil hoe!

[cripplehawk]

I assume you gave Genitivi the old butterknife treatment?

[ignacev8x]

how is siding with the werewolfs immoral? just because you betrayed the elfs? they didn't deserve die'ing, but their leader did imo

[geblox]

@ignacev8x Because you help no one with that. The elves, who are with one exception without guilt for the curse are murdered to the last man and at the same time you take away the only way to free the werewolves from their curse, condemning them to stay that way for the remainder of their lives.

[ignacev8x]

@geblox yeah, i hated how i had to kill all elves just because i wanted the asshole elf-leader dead :/

[mirokumasta]

@ignacev8x

you didn't have to. , i saved the wear wolves, and kept all the elves alive and the elf leader still died.

[dude1454545]

Orzammar Needs a tyrant like Bhelen not some push over like harrowmont

[geblox]

Moral and immoral isn't decided by the outcome, but by the intentions. Bhelen certainly is the stronger king, with the better prospect for dwarven power. But he also is a powerhungry and ruthless murderer. Eroding the traditions is nothing he does from the goodness of his heart, but for practical reasons. Harrowmont on the other hand is a moral man, he does what he thinks is "right" and doesn't seek absolute power for himself.

That's the reason why Bhelen is the immoral (not "bad"!) choice.

[scrtwpnx]

@geblox hitler was a moral person then?

[geblox]

@scrtwpnx I don't know how on earth you would come to that conclusion by reading my post. The intentions I'm talking about are not just some distant goal. Every action we take is carried by intent. Hilter was perfectly willing to sacrifice anyone to further his plans. When he paved the way for all the murders commited in his name, he intended to put anyone who stood in his way to death.

[Mitaruto]

Yea Bhelen is an asshole and rules like a tyrant but it matches the structure of dwarven politics perfectly, seeing as they traditionally assasinate people in politics.

Harrowmont would be a good human noble, reminds me of Arl Eamon, but dwarven one?

No.

Castless would also stay in the rut and several thaigs would remain unrecovered under Harrowmont's rule.

[WolfytheWolf5667]

@Mitaruto

Well duh, not to mention Harrowmount barely stood against Bhelen,

I'm only giving him crown because simply, i wish to see the whole "Good side DEATH" playthrough rather than Morrigan and the living playthrough.

[XXGDUBSXX]

I agree that all these are bad except the Bhelen one choosing harrowmont is actually the worse choice.

[pkdale12]

@XXGDUBSXX why

[XXGDUBSXX]

@pkdale12 Thats what I believe, because though Harrowmont seems like he would be better he's ruled by traditon which means he wants to keep the castless as a worthless group of people who cant serve in the military or seek legitimate employment. Also he isolates orzammar even further from the surface world(if you are a dwarf and ask for human military aid Harrowmont will only allow supplies not soldiers). Where as Bhelen increases Orzammars relationship with the surface allows Castless to join-

[pkdale12]

@XXGDUBSXX Ok Thankyou Just out of wonder do you have a ps3 or do u play on pc

[XXGDUBSXX]

@pkdale12 Xbox, it broke though(again...sigh).

[pkdale12]

@XXGDUBSXX i got both

[XXGDUBSXX]

@pkdale12 Ha! Lucky you.

[XXGDUBSXX]

@pkdale12 the military ,Will accept human military assistance if offered and will reclaim a few Thaigs.

[fuhteng]

@XXGDUBSXX I agree. Bhelen is a kinslayer, but Harrowmont is a fool. I think that was the worst choice in the game.

[parabilly]

should say at the end "ASSHOLE OF THE YEAR 2010"

[yodadax222]

wudnt siding with the wereolves be good and the dalish b evil

[RazlerofEsthar]

@yodadax222 eh not really since u can resolve it by allowing witherfang and zathiren to die then the curse is lifted off of both the dalish and werewolves

[RazlerofEsthar]

i dont get why ppl think siding with kind behlen is immoral yes he killed his brothers but thats how it usaully goes and his reign is more prosperous then harrowmont who fails to do anything dies and leaves a civil war in orzammar

[moviedude120796]

EVIL IS AWEOMS!

[2Wolfheartwarrior]

wow ur just an eevvvviiilll, Mage arnt u?

[aaron75fy]

can you marry the queen with this ending?

[nunumuffin777]

@aaron75fy you can as long as you let loghain live

[aaron75fy]

@nunumuffin777 i did, once. took him with me to ostagar, the things he came out with then was amusing (raging about cailan's alleged adultery, wanting to throw his body to the wolves ect) met up with him in vigil's keep in awakening. all fun and games. i bet she thought that the templar was refering to me. might be why she blew her top ;)