A este hombre el maestro Emin Boztepe, le saco la mierda, por hablar mal del estilo wing tsung, despues de la golpiza se levanto como borracho sin saber donde estaba.
you let a man jump you in your own school why you not go and do the same back.maybe you cannot now you to old but what about all of your so called studen.t not one of them go over to his country and do the same back
@frednotme: MMA is a sport...has rules, etc. Your gauge of effectiveness shouldn't be titles, but rather will it save your life. I've seen more than my fair share of "MMA Fighters" get taken advantage of and then claim that what was done "wasn't fair"....never heard of a real fight with rules. It's obvious that you are no real martial artist...
Apuesto a que el maestro IP MAN era tan humilde que jamas se hubiese puesto a decir esto ni estar justificandose, sencillamente un hombre sabio calla.
Otra cosa también vi videos de el otro hombre, es solo un pantallero, un hechon, un sobrado como le dicen en mi pueblo, donde habra quedado la humildad.
No soy quien para juzgar a nadie, pero como puede alguien hablar así? "Emin comenzó a tirar golpes y patadas en la cara, pero yo le controle todos los golpes desde sus codos. Fueron al menos nueve golpes, que fueron bloqueados todos.Frustrado, se levantó y echó a correr. Me levanté y decidí continuar con el seminario de cuatro horas, porque yo ni siquiera tenía un rasguño.""Sé que me teme.""Actitudes propias de mafioso, mentiroso, traidor y golpeador de mujeres."
Original only exists for one generation the 1st generation after that it is a copy of the original. How good a copy? Can the original be improved on? Whos interpretation is correct? who is the most talented practitioner? who was the Sifus right hand man and got the most attention and instruction? Try a couple of places find a good instuctor and start. Then keep looking for other good people to train with or under. Keep an open mind. What else is there to do than that......
The grandmaster sifu died in Jakarta last April, so I will never fulfill my promise to return to train with him again. While there were many differences between the styles, I saw many similarities that confirmed my belief that all the grandmasters kept the basic components as close as possible to that which was taught to them by Yip Man. I was told that Yip Man asked them to create their own style once they became masters of Wing Chun. I hope this helps you on your journey toward the truth.
We often forget in our quest to achieve martial arts mastery that these are real people who lived difficult lives. Yip Man's family was wealthy, which made them enemies of the Communist government of China, forcing them to flee to Hong Kong. Yip Man lived a humble life and taught Gung Fu to survive. By the time most students came to him, he was very old and often suffered from illnesses.
I had the pleasure of studying Cheung style wing chun for several years. In 2005, I met one of Yip Man's student's in Indonesia, who was a grandmaster of several styles of Gung Fu. I trained with him every day for a month. Upon returning to Indonesia in 2008, I was able to train with him every day for another month. One day, with my wife translating from Indonesian and Fukien dialect, I wrote down the story of how the grandmaster met Yip Man in China and later trained with him in Hong Kong.
Hey :) there is alot of talk about William Cheung's history of studying wing chun. I think that whether or not his history is correct that everyone should chill and accept that william cheung, and basically all sifus, practice and/or teach their OWN interpretation of wing chun and that should be accepted and appreciated, for example i mean; Yip Man was probably the greatest practitioner of wing chun BUT was his style perfectly original?
Interesting how incensed and dogmatic people are about an art that doesn't even belong to them.
I doubt no one here is old enough to have studied with Yip Man...much less even are Chinese.
Moreover, there is even less verifiable information on Yip Man's formative years as a martial artist and ironically, I don't see anyone questioning his background or Yip Man's recount of Wing Chun history with the same scrutiny.... history that any educated person would say is at least "questionable".
@exc20002001 He is lying,plain and simple.I took his system for 7 years straight and I met him many times.He is a snake and a con man.I would suggest learning WSL Wing Chun instead.Sifu David Peterson is an Aussie and he's incredible.You can buy his dvds too.
But more importantly, he's a liar. He learns a little bit of Wing Chun, makes up what he wasn't taught, then has the nerve to say the stuff he does is "traditional" while the WC Ip Man actually taught to everyone else is some kind of deliberately watered-down, "modified" form.
He lies to his students, dishonors his sifu, & insults his former classmates all at the same time!
I just started Training in his academy in Melbourne, Im happy shit, thats that man what kind of bullshit comments going on here anyway sigh... Ok true he does proclaim a fair bit but so what? same shit different smell man get over it, prolly in 7-8 years I will go to another master somewhere around the world if possible and learn WC from another master. We make WC our own isnt that what its about, the artist is what counts as cliche as it sounds its true. Anyway foods more exxy than WC 4 me atm
What you should understand is that you're NOT learning Wing Chun there - you're learning "William Cheung kung fu".
What they teach is a system that has some WC in it, but most of the system is stuff William Cheung made up himself because he wasn't actually taught the more advanced stuff.
He lies about his background & training, & in so doing he dishonors his sifu & insults his former classmates all at the same time.
@robyhh There are several families of Wing Chun. That is a fact. And there are systems such as Weng Chun (Yip Man's relative was a master of that art) which almost nobody talks about. If it's working for other people, live and let live.
It was Cheung who started this by telling insulting lies about his sifu, insulting his former classmates, and by continuing to lie to his own students.
I'm tired of Cheung apologists acting like I'M the rude & unreasonable one for pointing out Cheung's shitty behavior and FAKE "Wing Chun".
Cheung's the rude & unreasonable one, not me or anyone else who points him out for what he is.
@TwoGunGunnar Your behavior speaks for itself and reveals much if you are so concerned how others perceive your views.....or how seriously people take your position.
And your behavior also speaks for itself. With this one little sanctimonious comment you've revealed that you DO care what I've said, otherwise you wouldn't have said anything.
Cheung doesn't teach Wing Chun. He teaches stuff he made up himself.
FACTS: Not ONE of Ip Man's other students back up Cheung on ANY of his weird claims. Not ONE of Ip Man's other students agree that Cheung started when he was 10, that he was Ip's "favorite", that he was in any way more talented than anyone else, that he lived with Ip, or that he was taught "traditional" Wing Chun wile everyone else was taught "modified" WC.
The one thing they do all agree on is that Cheung lies.
@TwoGunGunnar only correct and no modified real wing chun from HK YM's student is Cheung wing chun... sorry but for me that is only real true... I've seen so many otner master and teacher, and for me it's obviusly that cheung is #1 in HK wing chun, only one with same real wing chun is chu chung man...
Rispondi a questo video... For me and for so many expert teacher cheung is top YM student... and no matter Cheung learned from other Master... is tecnicques is best I've seen in 20 years of practice... Only one I like is Chu Chung man one.. all other YM wing chun student for me are absolutely fake...
@xi0v13 Notice how when Cheung was finally confronted that he was beaten up by Emin Boztepe.Mr Invincible was getting his Anus Waxed by someone with about 3 years experience at that time.Yet Cheung Challenged the whole Wing Chun Family to test his SKILLS.He was rather silent after that incident too.WONDER WHY?
Because he's the worst kind of person you can think of.
He makes up this absurd Kung Fu Superman Chosen One story about himself, lies to his trusting (& paying) students, lies about & dishonors his sifu, insults his former classmates, brags about how awesome he is, gets his ass kicked & hides behind a buch of lame excuses.
How this guy has any students never ceases to blow my mind.
@xi0v13 Cheung is a liar and a charlatan plain and simple.I have been to his seminars before too.My personal instructor in Cheungs system was better than him because he boxed for 15 years.We experimented and spared so I was fortunate.However most of Cheungs people can't fight.I also looked at other Wing Chun systems and didn't close my mind.That's why I am good now.
I studied Cheungs system for 7 years before I moved on to more effective methods.People Cheung is a Liar.Plain and Simple.Why would Yip Man only teach him a secret version of Wing Chun.Go study the WSL Wing Chun or Tui Shong Tins Method.Much Clearer and Concise if you ask me.
@muitobonito113 i think youll find differences in wing chun, from school to school, theres no doubt william cheung trained with yip man, theres also no doubt in regards to his fighting ability, hes had his fair share of fights in hong kong, this i have heard from a reliable source, the way he does his forms is the way he feels they work in practical terms for himself, so there neither right or wrong, they are right from his perspective.
There's a difference between the regular kind of variation you'll find in real Ip Man WC schools/lineages and William Cheung. Cheung's system is SOOO different, you can't really call it Ip Man Wing Chun at all. Because it's not. It's something else.
It doesn't matter how good a fighter he is if he's a con-man. There's plenty or REAL WC men out there who are also good fighters and are NOT disgusting liars. Why not go with one of them?
@TwoGunGunnar YM teached to Cheung what never teached to other students... in fact I never met in 20 years of practice something like his wing chun... Never similar for real fight. Sorry but you don't understand much about wing chun... ral or fake...
Cheung's OBVIOUSLY a liar, and I've wondered how people can continue to do
Cheung Kung Fu after learning his claims & the arguments against those claims. I figure it's probably because by the time a person learns, they've invested so much time, $, work, & emotion that it's easier to convince themselves Cheungs not really lying or even if it does his lies don't matter....admitting you've been conned would mean (cont'd)
....admitting you've been conned would mean all that $, work, & time has been ill-spent, and having to admit your Kung Fu Hero has been lying to you has to be rough. So rather than admit the truth, most of Cheung's students go through all sorts of mental gymnastics despite the fact that, deep down, they know he's lying to them...under those conditions, admitting the truth is probably really, really hard.
Very different this TWC. Just to let you guys think. William 1st form comes close to Ip Man version. But the rest is totally different. So why only the 1st form? ;-)
Seems like many people forget or don't know about Chinese culture. The number 108 is very important in martial art (many styles has 108 movements in their forms). Why does William forms has way more movements, except the 1st? Most Ip Man forms has 108 or can be combined to 108.
Very different this TWC. Just to let you guys think. William 1st form comes close to Ip Man version. But the rest is totally different. Why only the 1st form? ;-)
Seems like many people forget or don't know about Chinese culture. The number 108 is very important in martial art (many styles has 108 movements in their forms). Why does William forms has way more movements, except the 1st? Most Ip Man forms has 108 or can be combined to 108.
Very different this TWC. Just to let you guys think. William 1st form comes close to Ip Man version. But the rest is totally different. Why only the 1st form? ;-)
Seems like many people forget or don't know about Chinese culture. The number 108 is very important in martial art (many styles has 108 movements in their forms). Why does William forms has way more movements, except the 1st? Most Ip Man forms has 108 or can be combined to 108.
Very different this TWC. Just to let you guys think. William 1st form comes close to Ip Man version. But the rest is totally different. Why only the 1st form? ;-)
Seems like many people forget or don't know about Chinese culture. The number 108 is very important in martial art (many styles has 108 movements in their forms). Why does William forms has way more movements, except the 1st? Most Ip Man forms has 108 or can be combined to 108.
The Cheung bashing comes from insecurity. If you know what is useful in Wing Chun there is no need to talk down any person or version of the art. The BJJ people don't argue about versions because they know how to get into the mount and how to counter it from the guard they know when something in the art is useful and when its not. Wing Chun Insecurity insecurity insecurity......Its a mess
The Cheung bashing comes from concern for naive people interested in WC. People should know about this guy BEFORE they walk into one of his schools so they can make an informed decision.
And if I toook 3 years of BJJ, made up a bunch of stuff myself, then said I learned that stuff in secret from Helio Gracie & that's why no one else knows it, and declared myself Grandmaster of Traditional Gracie Jiu Jitsu...you can bet your ass the REAL BJJ men would call me out.
As there is no proof either way other than his methods exist. If you are really interested you would have studied both versions and be able to make a constructive report as to the merits of both.
Everyone's WC is different, sure. My WC is mine...it's different than my sifu's. That's not what I'm talking about.
William Cheung makes the claim that Ip Man taught him and only him the REAL WC while teaching ALL his other students "fake, modified" WC. He says he mastered "traditional" WC by the age of 18, says he lived with Ip Man....
William Cheung is like Ashida Kim, Frank Dux, or Chososnninja. He's full of himself, and he lies, lies, and lies.
I guess my previous comment was too vauge. This is the first form, and helps with basic arm movements and a neutral stance. I wouldn't stand in a neutral stance in a fight. Also, this is a certain angle of a video that was made 40 years ago, maybe when Mr. Cheung was tired?
Who knows. He is still teaching, and I would follow him or Bruce Lee's system over alot of the other 'diciples'.
Fair comment i guess. Yes i probably would be slightly offended if you made a comment about our method that i didn't exactly agree with, and I'm sorry if i have offended you. But remember this IS Youtube... everything on here needs to be taken with a grain of salt. I did say that this "...is not what wing chun means to ME".... Meaning that it may be what wing chun means to someone else... like yourself i imagine.
Mr SoulSong, perhaps you can be more specific other than bad technique. Or I cant see any simplicity or directness. If you hadn't learnt Cheung's version you would hardly be expected to interpret the moves the way that Cheung and Cheung's people do. You would probably be offended if I looked at your method and made a foolish comment through lack of understanding. If you truly have an interest ask a question. If not, why are you wasting your time on a site you dont like?
If Wing Chun is about efficiency, simplicity and directness etc, why am i not seeing it here. Regardless... If this IS the "Traditional" Wing Chun... Its not what Wing Chun means to me. This is exactly what is stated in the info section... "William Cheung Wing Chun"."
Is that not being specific enough for you? That comment was on here a day before you made yours, asking me to be more specific etc etc.
If Wing Chun is about efficiency, simplicity and directness etc, why am i not seeing it here. Regardless... If this IS the "Traditional" Wing Chun... Its not what Wing Chun means to me. This is exactly what is stated in the info section... "William Cheung Wing Chun".
Obviously this is the first form "Siu Nim Tau". Im sorry but your comment makes no sense. Ofcourse i learnt the first form, and ofcourse i did not just start fighting "wing chun style". Wing chun is not a "style" more so a system.
@TwoGunGunnar sorry Cheung study for 7 years... between 1950-1957, 4 years as prive student at YM's home, as Yp Chun declaired... so Cheungg wing chun is only real wing chun in HK... YM teached him what he learned from Chu Chung Man and Leung Bik... sorry but what kind of liar are u???
None of those things are true. Ip Chun is on record saying Cheung lies. Ip Chun, Ip Ching, Wong Shun Leung, Tsui Shong Tin - ALL of them & many others got together & issued a public statement refuting Cheung. (a link to the statement's in Cheung's wikipedia entry under "External Links")
Someone's lying. Is ALL 13 of those guys who signed the statement, or is it just Cheung? NONE of Ip's other students back Cheung up & there's ZERO proof for ANY of Cheung's story. Hes obviously lying
@Nephronial Ah Ah Ah Ah ip Chun and ip Ching? They never learned wing chun from father... tehy went in HK at midde '60, many years later Cheung lived at Yp Man's home.. Ip Ching e Chun was the same with WSL that make famous conference for refuting leung ting as close door student, and declared him as liar, but after many thounsand dollars accept him in VTA... In 1975 WSL pubblished a famous letter between hem and Bruce Lee, in that letter WSL say that Bruce Lee can defeat hem but never Chueng..
The Ip Bros. both learned when they were kids, and Ching resumed in '62. Ching had AT LEAST 10 years of training as an adult from Ip Man. Cheung had 3 or 4 years training when he was a teenager. 10>3.5.
I've read the WSL letter. That's not exactly what WSL said. Here's what the letter DOES say about Cheung: "He (Lee) also
knew that his (Cheung) history of learning Wing Chun Hung Fu was not long". There's no mention of Cheung living with Ip or doing WC since he was 10.
@Nephronial There's zero proof that Cheung is a liar, only declaration of jelous people and with worst technicques... ah ah ah ah... no proof at all dear...only prrof for me is the better wing chun techniquesof GM William Cheung... nothing else matter for me.
No...there's LOTS of reasons to clearly show Cheung is a liar. I've shown several of them. At this point, you just don't want to admit it.
As for proving Cheung is a liar...well, you've got it backwards. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". Since Cheung's claims are extraordinary, the onus is on HIM to prove his story is TRUE. The burden of proof is on Cheung. There's 0 evidence for any of it, and NONE of his former classmates back him up. He's lying.
Yes i have to agree that this is VERY bad technique. Check the elbow when retracting the Wu Sau! Not to mention most of the entire form. And people wonder why he is so highly criticized!
Ah yes the famous Shil Lim Tao whilst lying on your back argument. Or the hidden ground techniques of Wing Chun Chi Sao whilst lying down. 400 year old system created for a different day and a different environment. Doesn't mean it is not useful today but don't try to fool people that Wing Chun is a one stop shop which will do everything for you it won't!!
uhh, no it won't, It will teach you how to stay upright and away from a Ground Fight, but what happens if you end up hitting the ground. Sure Ground and Pound might work on some people, but what happens if your up against someone who can Mount better then you can, thats where you need MMA.
William Cheung's from is so precise and perfect. And it is the same every time. Nobody does it better. His Sil Lum Tao is crisp, but it's his Chum Kil and Biu Jee forms that really blow me away. No question about it, he's the best in the WC world.
This is beautiful! Exactly as it should be.Trad WC at its very best. And it's practical unlike the Modified nonsense we see everywhere these days. GM Cheung rules !!!!
He didn't turn it into a money making machine. Bruce Lee did. Cheung was making huge amounts of money in the Seventies and early eighties just because of his relationship to Bruce Lee and Wing Chun. Much harder now with the focus on BJJ. Its all about whats fashionable as far as money is concerned.
I've just compared between Grandmaster William and Grandmaster Sammuel Kwok. Grandmaster Sam performed closely the same SLT with Ipman, i.e. the first step, the hand turning, the body, etc. As compare to my master, he trained his WC under a Shaolin Monk named Giok Gian. It is the traditional WC. And suprisingly, my master's SLT is the same with Grandmaster William. I believe that Grandmaster William practices the traditional WC.
To rpierini: And FYI; these thing you said he doesn't do he does, but he also adds far beyond any other WC methods other concepts, such as; not having to wait to be attacked in order to attack and why, there's also more than one centerline and point of entry than just the middle, and you need the flexibility of more footwork to get the hands there which is more inline with most other martial arts than the highly simplistic concepts we're all familiar with and many are still limited to!
things like "not having to wait to be attacked, etc" make me think that you aren't as familiar to the "highly simplistic concepts" as you think cause if you would be you wouldn't have to wait e.g....
on a side note: I'd be really curious to get a reasonable explanation of the limitations you mentioned? as your art is so superior that shouldn't be a problem?
pope616! JAjaja! What you said is exactly what I was trying to convey or respond to a comment user "rpierini" had made, not me! I was just quoting him so he'd know what I was refering to! Thats why my comment starts out "To rpierini:". LOL! I already know you don't have to wait for an attack! CHeung is all about ebtry techniques and more! SO relax, I'm on your side! Jajaja! ANd as far as the simplistic concepts comment, again, I'm referring to something he said to me in a private letter! LOL!
ANd in part to responding to his comments, I was also referring in one part to the center line theory which we all know about, but Cheung as you know teaches "ALSO" about the central line as well, how any point where your able to cross your hands in front of you can be considered your other centerline, and not just when you square off in a front stance. ANd plus there's more footwork in Cheungs system than in any other I've seen or practiced!
I would never say its superior. That's just all these new comers and kids that know nothing creating discendsion among our communities. We could do without that. They Just need to Shut up and learn! Every system has its merits. TWC does however fill in lots of holes and questions most people have when they first start out in the other systems which is why many Sifu's from those other families have or had crossed over to studying with Cheung!
Cheung was explaining things then in the 80's when he first arrived here to the US that only others are now taking credit for and starting to teach as well. Cheung was giving it all away and challenging many of them to prove him wrong since it also threatened their livelihood! Also why there's so much bashing amongst them by the way! Its all economics!
I still can't see why s.o. who trained in a different branch would cross over to a style that has as much to do with WC/WT/VT as dancing? what is the purposes of those TCW forms? what do they teach?
The same purpose you perform forms in the other families which they all have, to remember your tools and have something you can refer back to, to train your posture and quite literally your form so when you perform techniques your muscle memory kicks in from all the form you do and meditated in. But FYI forms by themselves are useless without the explanation and how its applied. One distinct difference between TWC and all others is the fact that its form is and looks exactly as it is applied.
As oppose to similar forms from WC/WT/VT, where they look nothing as it is later explained. I've seen many teachers just make $ht up just explain how a certain move in the form is actually applied. There are big gaps as I said before! But hey, just take my word for it. Go take a class dude. These online videos really don't do any justice to the art or its teachers.
To rpierini: Dude I encourage you to do the same, read and learn about cheung's wing chuns fundamentals before making uninformed comments about the man. In fact take a class because the books and youtube is no replacement for a one-on-one discussion and actual hands on! In fact, books and videos really don't do anyone's teachers any justice including yours, I'm pretty sure of it! THere's just to many intricacies that none of the books and videos cover! And Weekend seminars aren't enough either!
Rpierni as for your private message asking if I would like to go out for a drink then back to your place & clearly indicating what for. I mean WTH???? Sorry, I am not that way inclined at all, I was just here to post on martial arts not for any dating type service besides I'm not gay. Anyway, you have trained with whom in Wing Chun? Clearly you are not very spiritual & developed m. artist to get all excited & in a tissy over comments.
Riperni Bruce Lee considered him the best at Wing Chun him had seen (besides Yip Man), Dan Inosanto thought the same training with him in the 80s, as did many others like Joe Sayah (who competed in MMA too), etc, etc. The challenge match with Boztepe meant little, they even got him to change his shoes from trainers to shiny soled kung fu slippers (tricked him asking him to change for supposed photoshoot for magazine). Boztepe's WC/WT is not sloppy, you're just Ignorant & clueless.
Riperni you are abviously a) a joke martial artist b) terrible at wing chun c) despite a&b think you know it all. Sad really. There are many documented accounts of Cheung winning challenge matches, with eyewitnesses, written by other people, etc. What do you consider documented - must be on Youtube (the Internet where you get the bulk of your limited knowledge on Wing Chun)???
I am a joke martial artist? I get my info from Youtube?And you know that how?
It seems you are the joke actually. You ignore what I'm saying and attack me personally. And it seems you think you know it all. W. Cheung's 'Wing Chun' violates every basic theory of WC. And I want you to show me ONE INSTANCE where Cheung beat a LEGITIMATE WC practicioner in the last 30 years. Asshole.
Riperni, you speak some nonsense, what happened when the show was on the other foot i.e. Boztepe got challenged? Emin chickened out & refused all challenges - in Holland Blumming's guys came into his seminar to challenge him / Bas Rutten went to his HQ in LA to challenge him / William Cheung Instructor in US repeatedly has challenged him, etc, etc. Boztepe the COWARD turned them all down & made excuses! Regarding Cheung he turned up with a load of other guys (some had weapons).
He still got grounded and pounded though didn't he?
And if he's so badass then why haven't there been ANY documented challenge fights where he won? Sure there are accounts of him winning in the '50's but so what.
FYI, I never said that I liked Boztepe either. I think he's a thug and his WC is sloppy- but at least it's real WC.
As I suggested before, it is inconceivable that Grand Master Yip Man would teach virtually the same Wing Chun to Leung Sheung (one of his first disciple in HK), to Leung Ting (often claimed as his last disciple in HK, the close door disciple), to Ho Kam Ming (the disciple who claimed that he looked after Grand Master Yip while he was sick) and to Yip Chun (his son), and then a virtually totally different form to Mr Cheung.
I am not doubting the effectiveness of the martial arts of Mr Cheung.
Continued.. It can be martial arts XYZ and it can still be effective (proven in real life application). But from what I observed from the video clips, Mr Cheung's Wing Chun deviates signficantly from what has been preached, written and accepted within the realm of Yip Man's lineage of Wing Chun.
I doubt the effectiveness of W. Cheung's 'Wing Chun' very much, because it violates every core principle of real WC: He never attacks the centerline or his opponents balance, puts 2 hands on 1, etc. etc. We tend to think that he was the butt of a grand joke on the part of Ip Man...
He made lots of statements in the '80's that he would fight any challenger, etc. But after the 'challenge' by Boztepe, I don't think he is making such statements anymore. Please show me one fight documented on video or other means where he beat a legimate Wing Chun practicioner. I bet you can't.
I'm not going to take the time to do that sorry. The point I was making is that it's cowardly to talk behind another man's back - he has a website and email. Put an end to the argument (it will require more planning than Boztepe's attempt) or hold your peace. I am happy with with Si Kung's instruction, it's served me well. Or call me when you hold a Guiness world record and have trained US Marines.
And as far as talking behind his back- He started this controversy, and must have expected it!
He teaches a version of WC which violates every principle of WC. He did it to be different, and then stated that his was the only right way! i.e. created a niche for himself- and then cashed in on it- he's rich now because of it! And in the process he created a huge division in the WC community! All for his own gain! W. Cheung is a con artist at best.
Once again you miss the point completely. Walking down the road you see a man arguing with a rock. Who is the larger idiot, the man or the rock? I will reply no more.
Bruce Lee's acknowledgment of Cheung having been the best wing chun fighter he's ever seen is good enough validation for me! Bruce witnessed countless of cheungs hong kong rooftop fights and was in aw of his skills!
Hey bud, to each his own! But I would least do the following before making a final decision:
-Read and learn about the fundamental concepts and theories of Wing Chun(i.e. 'attack when attacked', guarding/ attacking the centerline, disrupting the opponent's balance, etc.)
can anyone tell me why ip man would teach master cheung a different version of sil lim tao form ?? Looking at this video it seems as though he has incorporated other elements; other insights, such as the big looped circles near the end of the form. Anyone have an idea why it's so different??
It is rather inconceivable that Mr Cheung learnt a different style of Siu Lim Tau, especially considering that Leung Sheung and Leung Ting learnt very similar styles from Yip Man and these two students could well be considered as the first and last student of Yip Man while he was in Hong Kong. What is being exhibited in this video clip is vastly different from what I have practised for more than 40 years.
I have learned Siu Lim Tau since 1967 and have watched many experts demonstrating it including Grandmaster Yip Man and lots of his immediate disciples, including Leung Sheung, Tsui Sheung Tin, Wong Shun Leung and Leung Ting. What I saw here is vastly different, e.g., the stance, the elbow, the protection of the centre line etc etc. Please note note that I am not suggesting that Mr Cheung is "wrong", but his Siu Lim Tau is definitely very different from what was taught by Yip Man.
That guy is William Cheung you dumb fuck! Everyone is so split in the Wing Chun family and I am here to break down the truth to you all!! Wing Chung is a a complex simplified martial art. If you just learn chain punches, a pak sau, bong sau and learn to side step you will be far ahead of many styles and many fighters. So people adopt wing chung principles into their fighting styles and quickly become very effective fighter. Don't get caught up in the differences the roots are the same.
youre right many of the principles. ie centreline, side stepping, are incorporated into other arts which have seen the effectiveness from wing chun, and made use of it.
Some of these comments are quite funny and made me laugh, but Ip Mans sons were adults when they started training Wing Chun, they were not interested when young, but I do agree, why not Master Wong Shun Leung (the beimo king)?
I never heard this story before, wow. I'm going to have to try to mash a Cheung student to see if there is any truth in it. I have an invincible move, taught to me by Bruce Lee's secret-half brother down the pub, I want to try.
i just learnt the first part of this last night at training im learning traditional wing chun and am now a member of cheungs acadamy under perth wing chun branch keeping the forward energy is difficult but getting there
heh people this is the secret wing chun. this is the traditional wing chun kung fu. this william cheung have learn on secret pleace because on that time was forbidden kung fu and that's why now is modificated. this is real wing chun know douth
If a Grandmaster of a system decided to add or change a system from what it was over 100 years ago, it still is counted as an authentic change. Meaning that the advanced Siu Lim Tau system is still authentic wing chun. reamaber that william cheung was taught a diffrent system and was the sole inheritor of the "traditional system"
So Yip Man taught EVERYONE else wrong on purpose, including guys like Wong Shun Leung who'd been with him for YEARS, or his own sons? He taught all of THEM wrong on purpose, yet gave Cheung, a newbie teenager the "real" stuff?
That means 1 of 2 things: Yip Man was ripping off ALL his other students, & was a dishonest dick & Cheung is going against "tradition" by teaching the "secret" WC to everyone OR it means William Cheung is a con and a liar.
has anyone every done the advanced Siu Lim Tau? I was taught it a while ago by my sifu in Cairns, QLD, Australia. It is similar but it has more movement and 2 kicks. (taught by "Wu Sifu")
Yeah, I've been taught advanced Siu Lim Tao. It's just a few extra techniques and important advancements on the skills which Siu Lim Tao aims to teach - all part of knowing the full Wing Chun system.
actually the winner (soldier wise) of a hand to hand situation is the guy who's buddy shows up first with a gun and blasts some lead into your opponent. "all your skills"?...all boxers can do is move and punch. and thats all. not that many skills lol
The question is do you think that Yip Man shared all his knowledge with everyone equally? and if you think he did how can there be so many variations? and with different explanations. I would bet that someone who lived with Yip Man and enjoyed fighting might have picked up a few pointers.
This guy just forgot the forms and tried to make it up as he goes along, especially the beginning opening the legs, that is from biu ji and definitely should not be in siu lim tau because it's for beginners and beginners need to learn the correct distance for the wing chun stance. He is not doing wing chun, he overcommits and uses too much force at the wrong times. He is also not using the straight line principle, he's making it flashy by using large movements.
I wouldn't have a problem with Cheung if he was honest. If he said "I had a few years WC training, but what I teach is largely of my own design", and called his system "Cheung Kung Fu" or something, he'd be cool.
William chung learned from yip man but he learned a secret aspect of the system that yip man didnt teach broadly. If you look at the angles of the limbs they act better as deflectors and are harder to break down/closer to a position conducive to every other movement. There is also an entire footwork dynamic to William cheungs wing chun vs. the other blend. It's pretty interesting really.
So Ip Man deliberately taught EVERYONE else wrong on purpose? Ip Man basically lied to & ripped off everyone, including guys who'd been with him for years, like Wong Shun Leung? His own kids? So Ip taught all those people wrong for years, and the only person who was worthy was a newbie teenager? Ip chose to teach Cheung the "secret, real" wc over his own kids?
If you believe Cheung's story, I'd like to tell you about a wonderful thing called Amway, then we can talk about Scientology!
Check out the differences yourself. Do a bong sao at 0 degrees, now do one at 45 degrees and tell me which one is more effective at deflecting an attack away from your face ... and which one breaks down first...
It's not as simple as Ip Man was lying to everyone...
The story says that the system was once a family secret... a father taught his two sons... and that his servant Chan Wan Soon was spying on them... so the father in order to ensure that his sons kept the system
A este hombre el maestro Emin Boztepe, le saco la mierda, por hablar mal del estilo wing tsung, despues de la golpiza se levanto como borracho sin saber donde estaba.
talomago 4 months ago
you let a man jump you in your own school why you not go and do the same back.maybe you cannot now you to old but what about all of your so called studen.t not one of them go over to his country and do the same back
alcase70 8 months ago
@frednotme: MMA is a sport...has rules, etc. Your gauge of effectiveness shouldn't be titles, but rather will it save your life. I've seen more than my fair share of "MMA Fighters" get taken advantage of and then claim that what was done "wasn't fair"....never heard of a real fight with rules. It's obvious that you are no real martial artist...
9HOURHomeBuyers 11 months ago 5
Has any Wing Chun practitioner ever won a real MMA tournament ?
frednotme1 1 year ago
@frednotme1 Not by using real Wing Chun they haven't. If they did they would kill someone.
Arkapok81 8 months ago
@frednotme1 shawn obasi... but that guy is a tool
lao752 7 months ago
looks like ballet not fighting.
frednotme1 1 year ago
Apuesto a que el maestro IP MAN era tan humilde que jamas se hubiese puesto a decir esto ni estar justificandose, sencillamente un hombre sabio calla.
Otra cosa también vi videos de el otro hombre, es solo un pantallero, un hechon, un sobrado como le dicen en mi pueblo, donde habra quedado la humildad.
glamdobrigado 1 year ago
No soy quien para juzgar a nadie, pero como puede alguien hablar así? "Emin comenzó a tirar golpes y patadas en la cara, pero yo le controle todos los golpes desde sus codos. Fueron al menos nueve golpes, que fueron bloqueados todos.Frustrado, se levantó y echó a correr. Me levanté y decidí continuar con el seminario de cuatro horas, porque yo ni siquiera tenía un rasguño.""Sé que me teme.""Actitudes propias de mafioso, mentiroso, traidor y golpeador de mujeres."
glamdobrigado 1 year ago
Original only exists for one generation the 1st generation after that it is a copy of the original. How good a copy? Can the original be improved on? Whos interpretation is correct? who is the most talented practitioner? who was the Sifus right hand man and got the most attention and instruction? Try a couple of places find a good instuctor and start. Then keep looking for other good people to train with or under. Keep an open mind. What else is there to do than that......
cruse9 1 year ago
The grandmaster sifu died in Jakarta last April, so I will never fulfill my promise to return to train with him again. While there were many differences between the styles, I saw many similarities that confirmed my belief that all the grandmasters kept the basic components as close as possible to that which was taught to them by Yip Man. I was told that Yip Man asked them to create their own style once they became masters of Wing Chun. I hope this helps you on your journey toward the truth.
papajim7 1 year ago
Comment removed
papajim7 1 year ago
We often forget in our quest to achieve martial arts mastery that these are real people who lived difficult lives. Yip Man's family was wealthy, which made them enemies of the Communist government of China, forcing them to flee to Hong Kong. Yip Man lived a humble life and taught Gung Fu to survive. By the time most students came to him, he was very old and often suffered from illnesses.
papajim7 1 year ago
I had the pleasure of studying Cheung style wing chun for several years. In 2005, I met one of Yip Man's student's in Indonesia, who was a grandmaster of several styles of Gung Fu. I trained with him every day for a month. Upon returning to Indonesia in 2008, I was able to train with him every day for another month. One day, with my wife translating from Indonesian and Fukien dialect, I wrote down the story of how the grandmaster met Yip Man in China and later trained with him in Hong Kong.
papajim7 1 year ago
But i would also like to add that i dont particularly like william cheung's interpretation of siu lim tao though lol
blumey16 1 year ago
Hey :) there is alot of talk about William Cheung's history of studying wing chun. I think that whether or not his history is correct that everyone should chill and accept that william cheung, and basically all sifus, practice and/or teach their OWN interpretation of wing chun and that should be accepted and appreciated, for example i mean; Yip Man was probably the greatest practitioner of wing chun BUT was his style perfectly original?
blumey16 1 year ago
So many Grandmasters (not just in Wing Chun) have not been "honest" about martial arts history.
It's really illogical to be so contentious about something that no one has no control over and doesn't impede their lives in any form.
KiCreativeStudios 1 year ago
Interesting how incensed and dogmatic people are about an art that doesn't even belong to them.
I doubt no one here is old enough to have studied with Yip Man...much less even are Chinese.
Moreover, there is even less verifiable information on Yip Man's formative years as a martial artist and ironically, I don't see anyone questioning his background or Yip Man's recount of Wing Chun history with the same scrutiny.... history that any educated person would say is at least "questionable".
KiCreativeStudios 1 year ago
@exc20002001 He is lying,plain and simple.I took his system for 7 years straight and I met him many times.He is a snake and a con man.I would suggest learning WSL Wing Chun instead.Sifu David Peterson is an Aussie and he's incredible.You can buy his dvds too.
muitobonito113 1 year ago
Agree...!
boothdos 1 year ago
William Cheung, i have one thing to say to you, you are GAY.
If anyone wonder why im saying this is because his Siu Lim Tau is messed up, look at how fast he is doing this, his hand movements are spazzy too.
Tobehonestmale 1 year ago
@Tobehonestmale
He is indeed spazzy.
But more importantly, he's a liar. He learns a little bit of Wing Chun, makes up what he wasn't taught, then has the nerve to say the stuff he does is "traditional" while the WC Ip Man actually taught to everyone else is some kind of deliberately watered-down, "modified" form.
He lies to his students, dishonors his sifu, & insults his former classmates all at the same time!
He's not just a spazz, but a lying puke too.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
I just started Training in his academy in Melbourne, Im happy shit, thats that man what kind of bullshit comments going on here anyway sigh... Ok true he does proclaim a fair bit but so what? same shit different smell man get over it, prolly in 7-8 years I will go to another master somewhere around the world if possible and learn WC from another master. We make WC our own isnt that what its about, the artist is what counts as cliche as it sounds its true. Anyway foods more exxy than WC 4 me atm
exc20002001 1 year ago
@exc20002001
What you should understand is that you're NOT learning Wing Chun there - you're learning "William Cheung kung fu".
What they teach is a system that has some WC in it, but most of the system is stuff William Cheung made up himself because he wasn't actually taught the more advanced stuff.
He lies about his background & training, & in so doing he dishonors his sifu & insults his former classmates all at the same time.
Try a different school...ANY other school.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar sorry but if u aren't Cheung student u don't learnirng Wing Chun...
robyhh 1 year ago
@robyhh There are several families of Wing Chun. That is a fact. And there are systems such as Weng Chun (Yip Man's relative was a master of that art) which almost nobody talks about. If it's working for other people, live and let live.
Let's leave it at that fellas and be peaceful.
KiCreativeStudios 1 year ago
@KiCreativeStudios
"Leave it at that"? "Be peaceful"?
No. Not until Cheung comes clean & apologizes.
It was Cheung who started this by telling insulting lies about his sifu, insulting his former classmates, and by continuing to lie to his own students.
I'm tired of Cheung apologists acting like I'M the rude & unreasonable one for pointing out Cheung's shitty behavior and FAKE "Wing Chun".
Cheung's the rude & unreasonable one, not me or anyone else who points him out for what he is.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar Your behavior speaks for itself and reveals much if you are so concerned how others perceive your views.....or how seriously people take your position.
KiCreativeStudios 1 year ago
@KiCreativeStudios
And your behavior also speaks for itself. With this one little sanctimonious comment you've revealed that you DO care what I've said, otherwise you wouldn't have said anything.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar Why thank you. =)
KiCreativeStudios 1 year ago
@robyhh
Cheung doesn't teach Wing Chun. He teaches stuff he made up himself.
FACTS: Not ONE of Ip Man's other students back up Cheung on ANY of his weird claims. Not ONE of Ip Man's other students agree that Cheung started when he was 10, that he was Ip's "favorite", that he was in any way more talented than anyone else, that he lived with Ip, or that he was taught "traditional" Wing Chun wile everyone else was taught "modified" WC.
The one thing they do all agree on is that Cheung lies.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar only correct and no modified real wing chun from HK YM's student is Cheung wing chun... sorry but for me that is only real true... I've seen so many otner master and teacher, and for me it's obviusly that cheung is #1 in HK wing chun, only one with same real wing chun is chu chung man...
robyhh 1 year ago
Rispondi a questo video... For me and for so many expert teacher cheung is top YM student... and no matter Cheung learned from other Master... is tecnicques is best I've seen in 20 years of practice... Only one I like is Chu Chung man one.. all other YM wing chun student for me are absolutely fake...
robyhh 1 year ago
little lost fact good old ipman changed wing chun so much over the years who really know what he was taught
MrJasonBkn 1 year ago
@MrJasonBkn
Lots of people.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
how do u stupid fuckes know when u dont train fucking grow up or shut up
MrJasonBkn 1 year ago
@xi0v13 Notice how when Cheung was finally confronted that he was beaten up by Emin Boztepe.Mr Invincible was getting his Anus Waxed by someone with about 3 years experience at that time.Yet Cheung Challenged the whole Wing Chun Family to test his SKILLS.He was rather silent after that incident too.WONDER WHY?
muitobonito113 1 year ago
@muitobonito113
Because he's the worst kind of person you can think of.
He makes up this absurd Kung Fu Superman Chosen One story about himself, lies to his trusting (& paying) students, lies about & dishonors his sifu, insults his former classmates, brags about how awesome he is, gets his ass kicked & hides behind a buch of lame excuses.
How this guy has any students never ceases to blow my mind.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar Sorry worst kind of persone is LT... KK and much more like him...
robyhh 1 year ago
@xi0v13 Cheung is a liar and a charlatan plain and simple.I have been to his seminars before too.My personal instructor in Cheungs system was better than him because he boxed for 15 years.We experimented and spared so I was fortunate.However most of Cheungs people can't fight.I also looked at other Wing Chun systems and didn't close my mind.That's why I am good now.
muitobonito113 1 year ago
I studied Cheungs system for 7 years before I moved on to more effective methods.People Cheung is a Liar.Plain and Simple.Why would Yip Man only teach him a secret version of Wing Chun.Go study the WSL Wing Chun or Tui Shong Tins Method.Much Clearer and Concise if you ask me.
muitobonito113 1 year ago
@muitobonito113 i think youll find differences in wing chun, from school to school, theres no doubt william cheung trained with yip man, theres also no doubt in regards to his fighting ability, hes had his fair share of fights in hong kong, this i have heard from a reliable source, the way he does his forms is the way he feels they work in practical terms for himself, so there neither right or wrong, they are right from his perspective.
singhakabuttar 1 year ago
@singhakabuttar
There's a difference between the regular kind of variation you'll find in real Ip Man WC schools/lineages and William Cheung. Cheung's system is SOOO different, you can't really call it Ip Man Wing Chun at all. Because it's not. It's something else.
It doesn't matter how good a fighter he is if he's a con-man. There's plenty or REAL WC men out there who are also good fighters and are NOT disgusting liars. Why not go with one of them?
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar YM teached to Cheung what never teached to other students... in fact I never met in 20 years of practice something like his wing chun... Never similar for real fight. Sorry but you don't understand much about wing chun... ral or fake...
robyhh 1 year ago
@muitobonito113
Glad you finally got out of there man.
Cheung's OBVIOUSLY a liar, and I've wondered how people can continue to do
Cheung Kung Fu after learning his claims & the arguments against those claims. I figure it's probably because by the time a person learns, they've invested so much time, $, work, & emotion that it's easier to convince themselves Cheungs not really lying or even if it does his lies don't matter....admitting you've been conned would mean (cont'd)
choyadavis 1 year ago
@muitobonito113
@muitobonito113
(cont'd)
....admitting you've been conned would mean all that $, work, & time has been ill-spent, and having to admit your Kung Fu Hero has been lying to you has to be rough. So rather than admit the truth, most of Cheung's students go through all sorts of mental gymnastics despite the fact that, deep down, they know he's lying to them...under those conditions, admitting the truth is probably really, really hard.
choyadavis 1 year ago
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Very different this TWC. Just to let you guys think. William 1st form comes close to Ip Man version. But the rest is totally different. So why only the 1st form? ;-)
Seems like many people forget or don't know about Chinese culture. The number 108 is very important in martial art (many styles has 108 movements in their forms). Why does William forms has way more movements, except the 1st? Most Ip Man forms has 108 or can be combined to 108.
eternalspring247 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Very different this TWC. Just to let you guys think. William 1st form comes close to Ip Man version. But the rest is totally different. Why only the 1st form? ;-)
Seems like many people forget or don't know about Chinese culture. The number 108 is very important in martial art (many styles has 108 movements in their forms). Why does William forms has way more movements, except the 1st? Most Ip Man forms has 108 or can be combined to 108.
eternalspring247 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Very different this TWC. Just to let you guys think. William 1st form comes close to Ip Man version. But the rest is totally different. Why only the 1st form? ;-)
Seems like many people forget or don't know about Chinese culture. The number 108 is very important in martial art (many styles has 108 movements in their forms). Why does William forms has way more movements, except the 1st? Most Ip Man forms has 108 or can be combined to 108.
eternalspring247 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Very different this TWC. Just to let you guys think. William 1st form comes close to Ip Man version. But the rest is totally different. Why only the 1st form? ;-)
Seems like many people forget or don't know about Chinese culture. The number 108 is very important in martial art (many styles has 108 movements in their forms). Why does William forms has way more movements, except the 1st? Most Ip Man forms has 108 or can be combined to 108.
eternalspring247 1 year ago
The Cheung bashing comes from insecurity. If you know what is useful in Wing Chun there is no need to talk down any person or version of the art. The BJJ people don't argue about versions because they know how to get into the mount and how to counter it from the guard they know when something in the art is useful and when its not. Wing Chun Insecurity insecurity insecurity......Its a mess
cruse9 1 year ago
@cruse9
The Cheung bashing comes from concern for naive people interested in WC. People should know about this guy BEFORE they walk into one of his schools so they can make an informed decision.
And if I toook 3 years of BJJ, made up a bunch of stuff myself, then said I learned that stuff in secret from Helio Gracie & that's why no one else knows it, and declared myself Grandmaster of Traditional Gracie Jiu Jitsu...you can bet your ass the REAL BJJ men would call me out.
Nephronial 1 year ago
As there is no proof either way other than his methods exist. If you are really interested you would have studied both versions and be able to make a constructive report as to the merits of both.
cruse9 1 year ago
@archibald75016
Everyone's WC is different, sure. My WC is mine...it's different than my sifu's. That's not what I'm talking about.
William Cheung makes the claim that Ip Man taught him and only him the REAL WC while teaching ALL his other students "fake, modified" WC. He says he mastered "traditional" WC by the age of 18, says he lived with Ip Man....
William Cheung is like Ashida Kim, Frank Dux, or Chososnninja. He's full of himself, and he lies, lies, and lies.
Nephronial 1 year ago
To make a comment like that about the Grandmaster only proves that you are inept.
atey6d 1 year ago
Geez, thats got to be very very early 70's...
luckyrice69 1 year ago
I guess my previous comment was too vauge. This is the first form, and helps with basic arm movements and a neutral stance. I wouldn't stand in a neutral stance in a fight. Also, this is a certain angle of a video that was made 40 years ago, maybe when Mr. Cheung was tired?
Who knows. He is still teaching, and I would follow him or Bruce Lee's system over alot of the other 'diciples'.
rikirikado 2 years ago
@rikirikado
maybe he is doing it slow to allow for movements to be seen clearly.
ambroze1989 1 year ago
@ cruse9
Fair comment i guess. Yes i probably would be slightly offended if you made a comment about our method that i didn't exactly agree with, and I'm sorry if i have offended you. But remember this IS Youtube... everything on here needs to be taken with a grain of salt. I did say that this "...is not what wing chun means to ME".... Meaning that it may be what wing chun means to someone else... like yourself i imagine.
MrSoulSong 2 years ago
I take it there are different ways of performing Sil Lum Tao then?
martynblackburn1977 2 years ago
Mr SoulSong, perhaps you can be more specific other than bad technique. Or I cant see any simplicity or directness. If you hadn't learnt Cheung's version you would hardly be expected to interpret the moves the way that Cheung and Cheung's people do. You would probably be offended if I looked at your method and made a foolish comment through lack of understanding. If you truly have an interest ask a question. If not, why are you wasting your time on a site you dont like?
cruse9 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ cruse9
"MrSoulSong (2 days ago)
If Wing Chun is about efficiency, simplicity and directness etc, why am i not seeing it here. Regardless... If this IS the "Traditional" Wing Chun... Its not what Wing Chun means to me. This is exactly what is stated in the info section... "William Cheung Wing Chun"."
Is that not being specific enough for you? That comment was on here a day before you made yours, asking me to be more specific etc etc.
MrSoulSong 2 years ago
If Wing Chun is about efficiency, simplicity and directness etc, why am i not seeing it here. Regardless... If this IS the "Traditional" Wing Chun... Its not what Wing Chun means to me. This is exactly what is stated in the info section... "William Cheung Wing Chun".
MrSoulSong 2 years ago
Dude, This is the first form. You didn't learn the first form? Did you just start fighting wing chun style?
rikirikado 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrSoulSong 2 years ago
@ rikirikado
Obviously this is the first form "Siu Nim Tau". Im sorry but your comment makes no sense. Ofcourse i learnt the first form, and ofcourse i did not just start fighting "wing chun style". Wing chun is not a "style" more so a system.
MrSoulSong 2 years ago
@MrSoulSong
cruse9 1 year ago
@MrSoulSong
There's nothing "traditional" about it. Cheung made this crap up himself because he quit WC after 2-3 years and moved to Australia.
Anyone who believes either:
A.) Doesnt really believe him, but they've put too much $ time & work into his "Wing Chun" so they can't admit to themselves they've been lied to.
B.) Is the most gullible rube the world has ever seen and will believe ANYTHING.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar
You do realise that the exact opposite could also be true :P
exc20002001 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar
LMAO @ rube
MrSoulSong 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar sorry Cheung study for 7 years... between 1950-1957, 4 years as prive student at YM's home, as Yp Chun declaired... so Cheungg wing chun is only real wing chun in HK... YM teached him what he learned from Chu Chung Man and Leung Bik... sorry but what kind of liar are u???
robyhh 1 year ago
@robyhh
None of those things are true. Ip Chun is on record saying Cheung lies. Ip Chun, Ip Ching, Wong Shun Leung, Tsui Shong Tin - ALL of them & many others got together & issued a public statement refuting Cheung. (a link to the statement's in Cheung's wikipedia entry under "External Links")
Someone's lying. Is ALL 13 of those guys who signed the statement, or is it just Cheung? NONE of Ip's other students back Cheung up & there's ZERO proof for ANY of Cheung's story. Hes obviously lying
Nephronial 1 year ago
@Nephronial Ah Ah Ah Ah ip Chun and ip Ching? They never learned wing chun from father... tehy went in HK at midde '60, many years later Cheung lived at Yp Man's home.. Ip Ching e Chun was the same with WSL that make famous conference for refuting leung ting as close door student, and declared him as liar, but after many thounsand dollars accept him in VTA... In 1975 WSL pubblished a famous letter between hem and Bruce Lee, in that letter WSL say that Bruce Lee can defeat hem but never Chueng..
robyhh 1 year ago
@robyhh
The Ip Bros. both learned when they were kids, and Ching resumed in '62. Ching had AT LEAST 10 years of training as an adult from Ip Man. Cheung had 3 or 4 years training when he was a teenager. 10>3.5.
I've read the WSL letter. That's not exactly what WSL said. Here's what the letter DOES say about Cheung: "He (Lee) also
knew that his (Cheung) history of learning Wing Chun Hung Fu was not long". There's no mention of Cheung living with Ip or doing WC since he was 10.
Nephronial 1 year ago
@Nephronial There's zero proof that Cheung is a liar, only declaration of jelous people and with worst technicques... ah ah ah ah... no proof at all dear...only prrof for me is the better wing chun techniquesof GM William Cheung... nothing else matter for me.
robyhh 1 year ago
@robyhh
No...there's LOTS of reasons to clearly show Cheung is a liar. I've shown several of them. At this point, you just don't want to admit it.
As for proving Cheung is a liar...well, you've got it backwards. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". Since Cheung's claims are extraordinary, the onus is on HIM to prove his story is TRUE. The burden of proof is on Cheung. There's 0 evidence for any of it, and NONE of his former classmates back him up. He's lying.
Nephronial 1 year ago
So? You're in Australia. Go talk to him about it.
rikirikado 2 years ago
Yes i have to agree that this is VERY bad technique. Check the elbow when retracting the Wu Sau! Not to mention most of the entire form. And people wonder why he is so highly criticized!
Thats all i needed to see!
MrSoulSong 2 years ago
terrible technique.
Exnacht 2 years ago
A prison officer that practices the occult.
On prisoners? Wow, you are even sicker than I thought. I am sorry that youtube led me here.
rikirikado 2 years ago
Wow! A martial artist that says, "creepy little bastard" A beginner, or does your dojo just have no class?
rikirikado 2 years ago
Ah yes the famous Shil Lim Tao whilst lying on your back argument. Or the hidden ground techniques of Wing Chun Chi Sao whilst lying down. 400 year old system created for a different day and a different environment. Doesn't mean it is not useful today but don't try to fool people that Wing Chun is a one stop shop which will do everything for you it won't!!
cruse9 2 years ago
If you have to ask what is so good about BJJ you haven't been around for the last 20 years.
cruse9 2 years ago
BJJ is all bulshit my friend
MrJasonBkn 2 years ago
whats so fucking good about BJJ its bullshit too
MrJasonBkn 2 years ago
BJJ won't teach you how to punch, Wing Chun will, Wing Chun won't teach you howt o Ground Fight, BJJ will, you need both...
SwordSaintSlayer 2 years ago
wing chun will teach you how to ground fight if you have every been involved in real wing chun you whould know that
MrJasonBkn 2 years ago
uhh, no it won't, It will teach you how to stay upright and away from a Ground Fight, but what happens if you end up hitting the ground. Sure Ground and Pound might work on some people, but what happens if your up against someone who can Mount better then you can, thats where you need MMA.
SwordSaintSlayer 2 years ago
William Cheung's from is so precise and perfect. And it is the same every time. Nobody does it better. His Sil Lum Tao is crisp, but it's his Chum Kil and Biu Jee forms that really blow me away. No question about it, he's the best in the WC world.
ChumKilForm 2 years ago
u really think so??
squareenixkh 2 years ago
you doant train at all do u you creepy litle bastard you have no fucking idea what you talking about
MrJasonBkn 2 years ago
This is beautiful! Exactly as it should be.Trad WC at its very best. And it's practical unlike the Modified nonsense we see everywhere these days. GM Cheung rules !!!!
faceliftblues 2 years ago
How long did you study Cheung's Wing Chun before you decided it was garbage and please name the weak points that made it garbage.
cruse9 2 years ago
He didn't turn it into a money making machine. Bruce Lee did. Cheung was making huge amounts of money in the Seventies and early eighties just because of his relationship to Bruce Lee and Wing Chun. Much harder now with the focus on BJJ. Its all about whats fashionable as far as money is concerned.
cruse9 2 years ago
youre right. he turned wing chun into a money making machine. a huge ego too. even after he was beaten by emin boztepe
Exnacht 2 years ago
I've just compared between Grandmaster William and Grandmaster Sammuel Kwok. Grandmaster Sam performed closely the same SLT with Ipman, i.e. the first step, the hand turning, the body, etc. As compare to my master, he trained his WC under a Shaolin Monk named Giok Gian. It is the traditional WC. And suprisingly, my master's SLT is the same with Grandmaster William. I believe that Grandmaster William practices the traditional WC.
waibaitui 2 years ago 2
@waibaitui I believe I should be getting more women than I do...
DippShits 2 years ago
To rpierini: And FYI; these thing you said he doesn't do he does, but he also adds far beyond any other WC methods other concepts, such as; not having to wait to be attacked in order to attack and why, there's also more than one centerline and point of entry than just the middle, and you need the flexibility of more footwork to get the hands there which is more inline with most other martial arts than the highly simplistic concepts we're all familiar with and many are still limited to!
artistled 2 years ago
things like "not having to wait to be attacked, etc" make me think that you aren't as familiar to the "highly simplistic concepts" as you think cause if you would be you wouldn't have to wait e.g....
on a side note: I'd be really curious to get a reasonable explanation of the limitations you mentioned? as your art is so superior that shouldn't be a problem?
pope616 2 years ago
pope616! JAjaja! What you said is exactly what I was trying to convey or respond to a comment user "rpierini" had made, not me! I was just quoting him so he'd know what I was refering to! Thats why my comment starts out "To rpierini:". LOL! I already know you don't have to wait for an attack! CHeung is all about ebtry techniques and more! SO relax, I'm on your side! Jajaja! ANd as far as the simplistic concepts comment, again, I'm referring to something he said to me in a private letter! LOL!
artistled 2 years ago
ANd in part to responding to his comments, I was also referring in one part to the center line theory which we all know about, but Cheung as you know teaches "ALSO" about the central line as well, how any point where your able to cross your hands in front of you can be considered your other centerline, and not just when you square off in a front stance. ANd plus there's more footwork in Cheungs system than in any other I've seen or practiced!
artistled 2 years ago
I don't know much about TWC &/or WC but the forms he shows on the vids don't make any sense to me from a wc/wt/etc. point of view.
so I'd really be curious about why anybody would call this superior to what WSL, GL, LT, etc teach?
pope616 2 years ago
I would never say its superior. That's just all these new comers and kids that know nothing creating discendsion among our communities. We could do without that. They Just need to Shut up and learn! Every system has its merits. TWC does however fill in lots of holes and questions most people have when they first start out in the other systems which is why many Sifu's from those other families have or had crossed over to studying with Cheung!
artistled 2 years ago
Cheung was explaining things then in the 80's when he first arrived here to the US that only others are now taking credit for and starting to teach as well. Cheung was giving it all away and challenging many of them to prove him wrong since it also threatened their livelihood! Also why there's so much bashing amongst them by the way! Its all economics!
artistled 2 years ago
I still can't see why s.o. who trained in a different branch would cross over to a style that has as much to do with WC/WT/VT as dancing? what is the purposes of those TCW forms? what do they teach?
pope616 2 years ago
The same purpose you perform forms in the other families which they all have, to remember your tools and have something you can refer back to, to train your posture and quite literally your form so when you perform techniques your muscle memory kicks in from all the form you do and meditated in. But FYI forms by themselves are useless without the explanation and how its applied. One distinct difference between TWC and all others is the fact that its form is and looks exactly as it is applied.
artistled 2 years ago
As oppose to similar forms from WC/WT/VT, where they look nothing as it is later explained. I've seen many teachers just make $ht up just explain how a certain move in the form is actually applied. There are big gaps as I said before! But hey, just take my word for it. Go take a class dude. These online videos really don't do any justice to the art or its teachers.
artistled 2 years ago
To rpierini: Dude I encourage you to do the same, read and learn about cheung's wing chuns fundamentals before making uninformed comments about the man. In fact take a class because the books and youtube is no replacement for a one-on-one discussion and actual hands on! In fact, books and videos really don't do anyone's teachers any justice including yours, I'm pretty sure of it! THere's just to many intricacies that none of the books and videos cover! And Weekend seminars aren't enough either!
artistled 2 years ago
Rpierni as for your private message asking if I would like to go out for a drink then back to your place & clearly indicating what for. I mean WTH???? Sorry, I am not that way inclined at all, I was just here to post on martial arts not for any dating type service besides I'm not gay. Anyway, you have trained with whom in Wing Chun? Clearly you are not very spiritual & developed m. artist to get all excited & in a tissy over comments.
CloudsBeyond 2 years ago
Riperni Bruce Lee considered him the best at Wing Chun him had seen (besides Yip Man), Dan Inosanto thought the same training with him in the 80s, as did many others like Joe Sayah (who competed in MMA too), etc, etc. The challenge match with Boztepe meant little, they even got him to change his shoes from trainers to shiny soled kung fu slippers (tricked him asking him to change for supposed photoshoot for magazine). Boztepe's WC/WT is not sloppy, you're just Ignorant & clueless.
CloudsBeyond 2 years ago
You're an idiot. Where do you live? If in Norcal, send me a private e-mail, we'll settle this.
rpierini 2 years ago
Riperni you are abviously a) a joke martial artist b) terrible at wing chun c) despite a&b think you know it all. Sad really. There are many documented accounts of Cheung winning challenge matches, with eyewitnesses, written by other people, etc. What do you consider documented - must be on Youtube (the Internet where you get the bulk of your limited knowledge on Wing Chun)???
CloudsBeyond 2 years ago
I am a joke martial artist? I get my info from Youtube?And you know that how?
It seems you are the joke actually. You ignore what I'm saying and attack me personally. And it seems you think you know it all. W. Cheung's 'Wing Chun' violates every basic theory of WC. And I want you to show me ONE INSTANCE where Cheung beat a LEGITIMATE WC practicioner in the last 30 years. Asshole.
rpierini 2 years ago
Riperni, you speak some nonsense, what happened when the show was on the other foot i.e. Boztepe got challenged? Emin chickened out & refused all challenges - in Holland Blumming's guys came into his seminar to challenge him / Bas Rutten went to his HQ in LA to challenge him / William Cheung Instructor in US repeatedly has challenged him, etc, etc. Boztepe the COWARD turned them all down & made excuses! Regarding Cheung he turned up with a load of other guys (some had weapons).
CloudsBeyond 2 years ago
He still got grounded and pounded though didn't he?
And if he's so badass then why haven't there been ANY documented challenge fights where he won? Sure there are accounts of him winning in the '50's but so what.
FYI, I never said that I liked Boztepe either. I think he's a thug and his WC is sloppy- but at least it's real WC.
rpierini 2 years ago
When he gets into stance, don't you only do that in the Biu Jee form?
TheDevil1912 2 years ago
He is pseudo-traditional. Look how GGMYip Man did the Siu Nim Tau!!
Vojak3 2 years ago
"The Great Pretender"- Wong Shun Leung.
zyk21 2 years ago
As I suggested before, it is inconceivable that Grand Master Yip Man would teach virtually the same Wing Chun to Leung Sheung (one of his first disciple in HK), to Leung Ting (often claimed as his last disciple in HK, the close door disciple), to Ho Kam Ming (the disciple who claimed that he looked after Grand Master Yip while he was sick) and to Yip Chun (his son), and then a virtually totally different form to Mr Cheung.
I am not doubting the effectiveness of the martial arts of Mr Cheung.
goldwing8888 2 years ago 2
Continued.. It can be martial arts XYZ and it can still be effective (proven in real life application). But from what I observed from the video clips, Mr Cheung's Wing Chun deviates signficantly from what has been preached, written and accepted within the realm of Yip Man's lineage of Wing Chun.
goldwing8888 2 years ago 2
I doubt the effectiveness of W. Cheung's 'Wing Chun' very much, because it violates every core principle of real WC: He never attacks the centerline or his opponents balance, puts 2 hands on 1, etc. etc. We tend to think that he was the butt of a grand joke on the part of Ip Man...
rpierini 2 years ago
Then stop talking and fight him, from what I've heard he rather enjoys a challenge.
BlazeGreenwood 2 years ago
I doubt very much that will ever happen, but I do hope to fight Eric Oram someday.
rpierini 2 years ago
He made lots of statements in the '80's that he would fight any challenger, etc. But after the 'challenge' by Boztepe, I don't think he is making such statements anymore. Please show me one fight documented on video or other means where he beat a legimate Wing Chun practicioner. I bet you can't.
rpierini 2 years ago
I'm not going to take the time to do that sorry. The point I was making is that it's cowardly to talk behind another man's back - he has a website and email. Put an end to the argument (it will require more planning than Boztepe's attempt) or hold your peace. I am happy with with Si Kung's instruction, it's served me well. Or call me when you hold a Guiness world record and have trained US Marines.
BlazeGreenwood 2 years ago
I thought not!
And as far as talking behind his back- He started this controversy, and must have expected it!
He teaches a version of WC which violates every principle of WC. He did it to be different, and then stated that his was the only right way! i.e. created a niche for himself- and then cashed in on it- he's rich now because of it! And in the process he created a huge division in the WC community! All for his own gain! W. Cheung is a con artist at best.
rpierini 2 years ago
Once again you miss the point completely. Walking down the road you see a man arguing with a rock. Who is the larger idiot, the man or the rock? I will reply no more.
BlazeGreenwood 2 years ago
I could of course sincerely say the same to you- but all I will say is that I respect your beliefs and also see no point in arguing.
rpierini 2 years ago
Bruce Lee's acknowledgment of Cheung having been the best wing chun fighter he's ever seen is good enough validation for me! Bruce witnessed countless of cheungs hong kong rooftop fights and was in aw of his skills!
artistled 2 years ago
Hey bud, to each his own! But I would least do the following before making a final decision:
-Read and learn about the fundamental concepts and theories of Wing Chun(i.e. 'attack when attacked', guarding/ attacking the centerline, disrupting the opponent's balance, etc.)
-Watch what W. Cheung is teaching NOW
-See if the two are in line with one another
rpierini 2 years ago
This guy is the biggest JOKE in WC
sixboltmains 2 years ago 2
Comment removed
sixboltmains 2 years ago
can anyone tell me why ip man would teach master cheung a different version of sil lim tao form ?? Looking at this video it seems as though he has incorporated other elements; other insights, such as the big looped circles near the end of the form. Anyone have an idea why it's so different??
156769 2 years ago
It is rather inconceivable that Mr Cheung learnt a different style of Siu Lim Tau, especially considering that Leung Sheung and Leung Ting learnt very similar styles from Yip Man and these two students could well be considered as the first and last student of Yip Man while he was in Hong Kong. What is being exhibited in this video clip is vastly different from what I have practised for more than 40 years.
goldwing8888 2 years ago
I have learned Siu Lim Tau since 1967 and have watched many experts demonstrating it including Grandmaster Yip Man and lots of his immediate disciples, including Leung Sheung, Tsui Sheung Tin, Wong Shun Leung and Leung Ting. What I saw here is vastly different, e.g., the stance, the elbow, the protection of the centre line etc etc. Please note note that I am not suggesting that Mr Cheung is "wrong", but his Siu Lim Tau is definitely very different from what was taught by Yip Man.
goldwing8888 2 years ago
Hey GoldWing, were you a direct Yip Man student?
WingChunLova 2 years ago
I wish I were but I am not. He is such a great master.
goldwing8888 2 years ago
Who is better between Gary Lam and William Cheung?
Velasca 2 years ago
That guy is William Cheung you dumb fuck! Everyone is so split in the Wing Chun family and I am here to break down the truth to you all!! Wing Chung is a a complex simplified martial art. If you just learn chain punches, a pak sau, bong sau and learn to side step you will be far ahead of many styles and many fighters. So people adopt wing chung principles into their fighting styles and quickly become very effective fighter. Don't get caught up in the differences the roots are the same.
nipple420 2 years ago
youre right many of the principles. ie centreline, side stepping, are incorporated into other arts which have seen the effectiveness from wing chun, and made use of it.
singhakabuttar 2 years ago
Hi Nipple, how would you fight a CLF fighter, they claim their style is the best out there.
WingChunLova 2 years ago
Some of these comments are quite funny and made me laugh, but Ip Mans sons were adults when they started training Wing Chun, they were not interested when young, but I do agree, why not Master Wong Shun Leung (the beimo king)?
thelighthousekeeper 3 years ago
I never heard this story before, wow. I'm going to have to try to mash a Cheung student to see if there is any truth in it. I have an invincible move, taught to me by Bruce Lee's secret-half brother down the pub, I want to try.
mrbastardisthetruth 3 years ago
why does every one criticise grandmaster cheung
leeboss217 3 years ago 4
i just learnt the first part of this last night at training im learning traditional wing chun and am now a member of cheungs acadamy under perth wing chun branch keeping the forward energy is difficult but getting there
leeboss217 3 years ago
i read that william cheung is actually yip mans nephew!!
towerofrome123 3 years ago
Nope, you read it wrong, Lo Man Kam is Yip Man's nephew, William Cheung is a student
nrozm 3 years ago
heh people this is the secret wing chun. this is the traditional wing chun kung fu. this william cheung have learn on secret pleace because on that time was forbidden kung fu and that's why now is modificated. this is real wing chun know douth
gorans007 3 years ago
Agreed, It makes absolutely no sense that Yip Man would leave his own sons out of the loop and teach a gay man instead.
phoenixavenger 3 years ago 5
If a Grandmaster of a system decided to add or change a system from what it was over 100 years ago, it still is counted as an authentic change. Meaning that the advanced Siu Lim Tau system is still authentic wing chun. reamaber that william cheung was taught a diffrent system and was the sole inheritor of the "traditional system"
lizellethegazelle 3 years ago
So Yip Man taught EVERYONE else wrong on purpose, including guys like Wong Shun Leung who'd been with him for YEARS, or his own sons? He taught all of THEM wrong on purpose, yet gave Cheung, a newbie teenager the "real" stuff?
That means 1 of 2 things: Yip Man was ripping off ALL his other students, & was a dishonest dick & Cheung is going against "tradition" by teaching the "secret" WC to everyone OR it means William Cheung is a con and a liar.
Which is it? Is Willy a traitor or a liar?
Nephronial 3 years ago 6
Remember that Cheung was NOT the sole inheritor of anything. It's a ridiculous story that he (Cheung) MADE UP.
He's a liar.
Nephronial 2 years ago
Its good to see a Tan Sao that covers the middle and upper gates, rather than a Tan that is too low to be of any practical use.
cruse9 3 years ago
not surprised to see william "con man" cheung bullshitting again
GearsOfWar1235 3 years ago
has anyone every done the advanced Siu Lim Tau? I was taught it a while ago by my sifu in Cairns, QLD, Australia. It is similar but it has more movement and 2 kicks. (taught by "Wu Sifu")
lizellethegazelle 3 years ago
Yeah, I've been taught advanced Siu Lim Tao. It's just a few extra techniques and important advancements on the skills which Siu Lim Tao aims to teach - all part of knowing the full Wing Chun system.
TimRedfern 3 years ago
actually the winner (soldier wise) of a hand to hand situation is the guy who's buddy shows up first with a gun and blasts some lead into your opponent. "all your skills"?...all boxers can do is move and punch. and thats all. not that many skills lol
kempobrad 3 years ago 2
The question is do you think that Yip Man shared all his knowledge with everyone equally? and if you think he did how can there be so many variations? and with different explanations. I would bet that someone who lived with Yip Man and enjoyed fighting might have picked up a few pointers.
cruse9 3 years ago
This guy just forgot the forms and tried to make it up as he goes along, especially the beginning opening the legs, that is from biu ji and definitely should not be in siu lim tau because it's for beginners and beginners need to learn the correct distance for the wing chun stance. He is not doing wing chun, he overcommits and uses too much force at the wrong times. He is also not using the straight line principle, he's making it flashy by using large movements.
evaunit14 3 years ago
That's about right.
I wouldn't have a problem with Cheung if he was honest. If he said "I had a few years WC training, but what I teach is largely of my own design", and called his system "Cheung Kung Fu" or something, he'd be cool.
Nephronial 2 years ago
this is different from Yip Man's Siu Lim Tau.
So who is right William Chung or Yip Man?
ajax7925 3 years ago
William Chung
xi0v13 3 years ago
William chung learned from yip man but he learned a secret aspect of the system that yip man didnt teach broadly. If you look at the angles of the limbs they act better as deflectors and are harder to break down/closer to a position conducive to every other movement. There is also an entire footwork dynamic to William cheungs wing chun vs. the other blend. It's pretty interesting really.
xi0v13 3 years ago
So Ip Man deliberately taught EVERYONE else wrong on purpose? Ip Man basically lied to & ripped off everyone, including guys who'd been with him for years, like Wong Shun Leung? His own kids? So Ip taught all those people wrong for years, and the only person who was worthy was a newbie teenager? Ip chose to teach Cheung the "secret, real" wc over his own kids?
If you believe Cheung's story, I'd like to tell you about a wonderful thing called Amway, then we can talk about Scientology!
Nephronial 2 years ago
@Nephronial
Check out the differences yourself. Do a bong sao at 0 degrees, now do one at 45 degrees and tell me which one is more effective at deflecting an attack away from your face ... and which one breaks down first...
It's not as simple as Ip Man was lying to everyone...
The story says that the system was once a family secret... a father taught his two sons... and that his servant Chan Wan Soon was spying on them... so the father in order to ensure that his sons kept the system
xi0v13 1 year ago