Christianity: A Finite Life of Crimes = Eternal Penalty???!!!

[RammatRamzi]

The reasons for eternal damnation sounds a lot like Islam's reasons for it.

[damian43125]

God is forever loving and infinite in power and knowledge, how can we question such a being? Besides depending on Science and using it as our salvation we should be more connected to god such as mass,reading the bible and many other things, perhaps some science theories are true but remember they are "Theories" in other words they are ideas. The Lord stays the same and so does the Bible, God Bless You All So that you too may see the truth.@theist77 Thank You Brother For The Constant Uploads †

[dannytibi]

One glaring flaw with this reasoning is that it implies that human activity, either actively or passively can adversely affect an omnipotent being. As Epicurus put it, A happy and eternal being has no trouble himself and brings no trouble upon any other being; hence he is exempt from movements of anger and partiality, for every such movement implies weakness.

[theist77]

@dannytibi I do not believe in Epicurus.

[dannytibi]

@theist77 That does not excuse you from addressing the point. In case you missed it, here it is again... your reasoning implies that human activity can adversely affect an omnipotent being and cause it to manifest anger, an emotion that is a product of passion, which is a sign of weakness.

[theist77]

@dannytibi We are talking about a Judge here who is the Lawgiver. He has written His law on our hearts and we have all stiff-armed Him. As Lawgiver and Judge, He must act to uphold the order...creature under Creator.

[dannytibi]

@theist77 But unless he himself has been directly and adversely affected by human activity, there goes your rationalization for why finite violations warrant infinite retribution. That's the catch 22 of the issue.

[theist77]

@dannytibi His rule was affected by our declaration of independence...that was a belittling of God. The only thing to do is remind man of who the boss is.

[KonijNx2]

@theist77 You're completely missing the point. An omnipotent being would not be capable of being 'belittled'. Your argument has been shown to be wrong. Instead of repeating it or ignoring it. Why don't you do the thing an intelletcually honest person does and return to the drawing board?

[theist77]

@KonijNx2 Relly, folks...this is not difficult...He is belittled IN THE EYES OF MEN. Essentially He is not belittled.

[KonijNx2]

@theist77 So your god's fantastic answer to being belittled in the eyes of men was to 'remind man of who the boss is', which resulted in infinite punishment? You've provided any reasonable justification for such a thing. Anyone who would make such a point will simply restate it, because no matter who it is the issue of infinite punishment for finite crime remains.

[theist77]

@KonijNx2 It only remains for those who want it to remain. The issue for you is not that you do not know...it is that YOU DO NOT WANT TO KNOW.

[KonijNx2]

@theist77 When backed into a corner, your answer is this?

You can delete my comment to make it appear like you stumped me all you want, the only person you're fooling is yourself. Do you honestly think this type of tactic is going to work on anyone?

Conversion via denying the opponents position even exists? It's brilliant.

[theist77]

@KonijNx2 I do not know what I deleted...BUT...this is one thing I will say. If a person simply just will not get it and appears to be as irrational as they can not to get it...I delete their comment and block them. I probably blocked you and I just unblocked everyone. Do you want me to block you again? Because I do block folks who simply will not be rational.

[KonijNx2]

@theist77 You block people who disagree with you?

[theist77]

@KonijNx2 If that was the case, everyone would be blocked. But, you now can look in the mirror and see why I block people. You just made a conclusion from what I said that was very much unwarranted. You did not rationally think through what I was saying. People will purposefully misunderstand me among many other childish things. When people prove to me that they WILL NOT think rationally and discuss things logically, they just need to go away.

[KonijNx2]

@theist77 So what is irrational in what I've said?

I pointed out how the issue of infinite punishment for finite crime remains, and your impressive answer to that is that it 'only remains for those who want it to remain'.

Then you denied the existence of my position completely by stating that I 'do not WANT to believe'.

If you're not willing to have fair, honest discussion; why are you here? You can scream I'm being irrational into you're blue in the fingers.

[Boepyne]

By your logic, the abuse of a small child should carry a lesser penalty than the same abuse of an adult in their prime.

[theist77]

@Boepyne The penalty that was described in the video was eternal...there is no lesser or greater. It had to do with ultimate justice in the universe...not with judgments on earth by governments. With regard to governmental law as well as the Fatherly discipline of God, there are lesser and greater degrees of punishment/chastening as it relates to the crimes that we commit.

[Boepyne]

@theist77 If you think that the torture of any sentient being, forever without parole, is anything other than evil then you are a f**kwit.

[theist77]

@Boepyne That is the problem with society these days - when justice is carried out fro crime, we are now charging the authority and not the criminal. God bless.

[TheGamanic]

So morality depends on who you commit the crime against, not the crime in and of itself, or the intentions of the criminal, or the consequences of that crime?

[theist77]

@TheGamanic I was only speaking with regard to why we are given an eternal penalty. We have all sinned against God and so we deserve an eternal penalty. Christ paid your way, friend.

[TheGamanic]

@theist77 So one type of morality is applied here but for other situations, that is not so? Is this what you are saying?

[theist77]

@TheGamanic It is the way you worded your original question that is tripping me up...the penalty for our sin (not morality) is dependent upon who we have sinned against...not the nature of the sin that we have done.

[TheGamanic]

@theist77 But it follows that if God is moral, therefore handing out the punishment would be the moral thing to do, and I am asking whether that is something you base your morality on. If, for example, you shoot a recently unemployed man, or the CEO of a large company, is one action more morally correct than the other? That is what you are implying by saying that God's decision to send people to hell is moral since it relies on who the action is being done to.

[MalakaiJ]

1million percent worthy? Bit of an underexaggeration don't you think? ;) God bless.

[mikeisi]

(3) my question is....do you think we are in a sense like the little boy in this life? Is it wrong to say "well, in my sinful, un-glorified self eternal hell 'feels' harsh....but I trust when I stand before God and experience his glory fully, I will see and feel the justice then? thanks

[theist77]

@mikeisi I think we "feel it now"...maybe not in its fullness as well will then. I guess it depends on the maturity of the Christian. This "feeling" that we are talking about here now has been growing within me since becoming a Christian about 13 years ago. I feel it more now than then...and, as I said, we will probably feel it much more when we see the Lord. God bless, friend!!

[RammatRamzi]

@mikeisi

According to Harold Camping, at the JUDGEMENT, we will have the "mind of God". We will have no memories of our loved one who are lost because the "former things have passed away". In essence, since it's memories that make up who we are, we will cease to exist ourselves and be replaced with sinless beings who will appear to be glorified versions of who we once were. When I heard this, it made me feel kind of glad that nothing happened in 1994 and last May 21st.

[mikeisi]

(2) ...For example...if someone killed a family member of mine and were caught, and thus sentenced to prison, I don't believe there would be anything in me emotionally that would say "Man, that seems kind of harsh for the murderer". I would 'feel' the justice. However...to the murderer's three year old son who's just been told that they will never be with Daddy again because of what he did...the little boy may NOT 'feel' the justice, even though they trust their mommy who says it is...(see 3)

[mikeisi]

(1) Good video. I'm curious what your opinion is in regards to a question I've had for a while. Do you believe that a "genuine" believer/follower of Christ should expect to come to feel on an EMOTIONAL level the 'justice of hell' in THIS life? Let me be clear, I'm NOT asking should a believer trust and believe that Hell is just....i'm asking should they 'feel' the justice. (...see 2)

[NEGATIONofP]

@theist77 This is where I get confused. I understand that god creates us with characteristics he chooses (good &/or bad) & he knows BEFORE creating us the effects those attributes will have on the choices we make (haven/hell), he even goes so far as to demonstrate this type of behavior (as you established in past videos) by commanding people spreading his word to shun certain cultures in effect causing that entire society to be sentenced to hell. Am I in error in these understandings?

[theist77]

@NEGATIONofP God does not make us sinful...sin propagated from Adam's sin. The curse travels down the line. All of us deserve hell. God would be just in allowing all of us to be judged. But, God graciously saves some...and Jesus said He saves a minority Matthew 7:13-14). You need to see, though, that He is allowing them to go to hell...not causing them to go there. I would like to answer this and your other questions in a video.

[NEGATIONofP]

Does god know before he creates us the sins we will commit against him?

[theist77]

@NEGATIONofP We have talked about this before. Yes, He does...

[NEGATIONofP]

@theist77 Sorry I felt we never got to a conclusion on that point. Thanks. So if we agree he designs some of us in a way that causes us to sin effectively predestining us to hell. How can this god be considered a fair & compassionate entity?

[theist77]

@NEGATIONofP Wrong word..."cause". We are culpable for our sin. We choose against God. He actively predestines people to heaven - not hell. We choose hell...God ALLOWING not CAUSING us to go our own way. The only thing God actively causes is good...He allows evil. All of it is for a singular purpose - His glory.

[theist77]

@NEGATIONofP You know what...I am going to do a video on this in the coming days. Watch for it, okay?

[RammatRamzi]

@NEGATIONofP

The Bible says God "concludes all in unbelief that He might have mercy upon all". It also says He's the master potter, making vessels unto honor and dishonor. In otherwords, since we are but clay to God, we really don't have free will inspite of what all preachers who believe in eternal torment tell us. However, there ARE scriptures that point to God "working all things to His glory" and pointing to a type of second chance.

[theist77]

@RammatRamzi We have free will...that is a biblical truth that is also logical.

[RammatRamzi]

@theist77

I bet you're not a Calvinist.

[theist77]

@RammatRamzi I am a calvinist...see my video..Atheism, Theism, and Free Will.  Just because God knows what you WOULD do or WILL do does not take the WOULD or the WILL out of the sentence. /watch?v=5huXiyAYqq8

[RammatRamzi]

@theist77

I've noticed that many Christians who call themselves Calvinists respond the same way to predestination the way Muslims respond to it themselves. Predestination becomes foreknowledge.

[MrXenitha]

@theist77 "Just because God knows what you WOULD do or WILL do does not take the WOULD or the WILL out of the sentence"

Then I guess that makes God sadistic.

[2nddeathapologetics]

The wages of Sin is Death. The nature of the Punishment is eternal. The result is that God will destroy both body and soul in hell (Matthew 10:28). Which is the 2nd death (Rev 21:18). Each person will receive a punishment in proportion to his crime (Luke 12:48) determined by their works (Rev 20:13)

[cadmodedalo]

@2nddeathapologetics

So there isn´t ethernal death, "just" ethernal consecuences, right?

[2nddeathapologetics]

@cadmodedalo What do you think Eternal Death means? Death which will not be rescinded and is permanent.I think it means exactly what it means. Cessation of life and consciousness.