As Peter Gibbins once said "Michael, we don't have a lot of time on this earth! We weren't meant to spend it this way. Human beings were not meant to sit in little cubicles staring at computer screens all day, filling out useless forms and listening to eight different bosses drone on about about mission statements. "
Great so nobody has to work ever again and we all spend our life watching tv, doing drugs and fucking hookers or what? All of humanity would become fat decadent slobs
@Shonenut213 No, but he's designed a lot of things and worked for a lot of companies including Universal. You don't need college if you're smart enough and already getting jobs do you, idiot. PS Bill Gates is a college drop out.
"If you make a painting that you enjoy, you will enjoy giving it to other people, NOT SELLING IT." Art work by nature has sentimental value to the one that has worked on it. If one desire to keep my painting in a RBE, where can they store their painting in a safe place especially if housing is just as available as water or air and is communally owned. This RBE is a naive idea at best and fascism in a clever disguise at worst.
You make no sense. You will still have a house, a home, a place of residence. So naturally you'd keep your painting there, wouldn't you? How can you not have a house if it is abundant? That's like asking where can they get a glass of water if water is abundant. Really, that made no sense.
This video does not mention what form of government there is, nor does it say anything about land ownership. HOWEVER, even in Soviet Russia you 'owned' your home, unless their dictators needed that land for whatever reason. Under this system one could still own a house, and whatever there is inside. The whole point is that energy and the basic human needs are free, and shared, but under this system land ownership is still there, as is possession material.
It has merit & intrsting points, but ther wil never b a time with no money, its called communism, & history shows that its a utopia. Also its hard to believe that humans wont work at some point in time, our nature is too competitive & we just cant sit still, robots may replace us, but if robots'll invent for us, they wont need us ;) In my opinion there will always be division between societies, not necessarily financial ones, might be intellectual or may b of som other kind. Anyway, interesting!
what most people fail to realize is that..... the Life of a typical Fruit Tree will outlive any human being 10,000's times over, and a single of those trees could sustain a 100 families in a single harvest, so I think the earth is naturally equipped to sustain all life on earth. It's just.... there's a bunch of bullies who want everything and take from the weak and poor. We shouldn't worry about population growth because only a small percentage ever live past 65 unlike a fruit tree.
i get so mad watching this videos because i know stuff like this is probably not going to happen in my lifetime but i want it to so bad!! why do we have to be tied down by the government and corporations!!! i hate that. we should for a group of people and make stuff like this happen instead of waiting we should stand up and take them down by any means.
@TheRodriguezo hehe don't worry, alot of people feel this way, just two years have passed and there are over 100 million people who support this, they also feel the same way you do, I believe things will start happening very fast, just like the technological trend and population that's growing at an exponential rate, so will the evolution of our social structures. I hear that Australia is already having a project like this underway.
@TheRodriguezo This societal system, is what will most likely follow after the next economic collapse, which signs say is where we are headed. Our history is one of birth and decay. The feudal system was born, work for a bit, stressed itself to its limits and died, mercantilism followed the same path. It looks like "Free market Capitalism" will go the same way. It has been useful, it has had it's time. We are now seeing that system get stressed to its breaking point. Don't worry, this will be.
Imagine everyone would benifit man kind. Since there would be no pointless job such as sales man or bus driver everyone would be a scientist or artist or philosopher or tennis player or architect. Imagine how quickly our woulds technology and abundace would go up. There would be millions of people only helping eachother
I understand they are trying to make a movie that will showcase life in an RBE. The Venus Project is seeking donations for this, is there anyone supporting it? I'm a broke student at the moment but I would love to see such a film. Especially if it's not a documentary, but a fiction with all the makings of an entertaining film! I've always planned on writing a story like that.
Perfections to me means to constantly adapt and evolve. Perfection cannot be ONE POINT in my eyes. Because perfection is always seeking out how to face the challenge ahead before it comes. Is that what it is to you?
@pwih1987 That's exactly what perfection is. It's the same reason it unachievable. But the right direction to strive for. That's the beauty of improvement; there's always room for it.
Perfection can be achieved. The act of implementing a system or taking actions that will be able to face future problems is perfection. Perfection is not one point. When you achieve something you reach a goal. there is no goal with perfection. Well there is........to face each challenge with efficiency. I see that in the venus project.
@LaBambathereal I really appreciate your 'opposing' perspective/point of view. It's enriching. Have you ever thought of contributing on the official website's forum discussion? Just google "The Venus Project" or "Zeitgeist Movement" official websites, and register, and just try post your thoughts there. I'm sure it would be at least highly respected & regarded (without name-calling & personal-attack, just straight pure logical-thinking sharing). This system is still 'new', and needs improvement.
If there's no limits at all our consumption would go sky high, people just feasting with material. Having a garage full of cars, eating all kind of exotic food, traveling around the world without any worries. Does this really work, if everyone starts to do it? And how about the land? If that becomes free, people just start to build thing like crazy. When the space runs out they start to fight over the land, like in the old days.
@LaBambathereal not true. u have to realize that the main goal is for humans to survive in the most productive way. there would be no need for cars because public trans would take over an be free. food would be free but there would be a different way of thinking where people dont want to just get fat. the main goal is survival in the healthiest way. plus birth rates would slow down an there would be a cap on the population, but again there would be no problem.
IF everyone was provided for you think there would be a cap on population? No. This system is made so population can grow. Death will balance it out. Abundance is an extremely plentiful or oversufficient quantity or supply. There would be no reason for a cap on population. And if I do not have to worry about much trust me I am going to have way more sex and kids.
there's flaws in this video, schools do teach media literacy. And the further you go in school systems, the more they encourage you to think on your own, because you already have that basic knowledge. I do like this series idea that what if the most expensive high tech today would become free and accessible for everyone. It would be like the Renaissance or the age of Roman Empire, new ideas popping out everywhere. Our technology would greatly improve in a matter of years.
@LaBambathereal Our schools are based upon the Prusian model of the 1800's. Its purpose was to indoctrinate the children to be obedient, docile, and to stifle critical thinking.
Our schools destroy children's thirst for knowledge, by forcing them to memorize data (of which most are uninterested) under stressful deadlines, and telling them what to do and think.
Imagine a school where kids are free to learn what they want, at their own pace, and instead of a dictator the teacher is a mentor.
@IHighLikePlane Public schools were first and foremost founded because the need to make more suitable workforce for radically developing society. (Machines took all the simple jobs) This is still the basic principle of almost every school, they sell with it. (this many percent has graduated, they have got here from there etc.). Learning just because the fun, expanding your view or want to know more, not for a job... I like that image =)
This has been my dream since a little kid. This type of economy, science advancements and unification of mankind, are the only hope for a world free of war
This sounds like communism on paper, which isn't a bad thing. The part that worries me is that like all experiments into communism on a grand-scale it seems like it will eventually fall apart. How do we take today's world where we don't have energy as abundant as air and everyone having to work to survive, to this utopia that's the exact opposite of that? Do we depend on today's governments who don't want this or make a new government that risks being just as corrupt?
how do i act? how do i try to change peoples minds? how do we get people to believe in this Utopia, rather than thinking the term Utopia is a mythical unachievable thing? our planet, our species, ALL species need us to act on the values of Fresco et al, but how do you persuade the indoctrinated?
I wanted to add - that they can also put sensors on the steering wheel that can detect alcohol content through the skin, therefore a drunken driver can not drive. However, thanks to films such as I robot - and space odyssey that explore philosophical questions about reliance on technology - we have to be aware of computer malfunction. We need a balance between human intelligence and computer intelligence. We can not rely entirely on either.
I wanted to add - that they can also put sensors on the steering wheel that can detect alcohol content through the skin, therefore a drunken driver can not drive. However, thanks to films such as I robot - and space odyssey that explore philosophical questions about reliance on technology - we have to be aware of computer malfunction. We need a balance between human intelligence and computer intelligence. We can not rely entirely on either.
my biggest concern about this idea, is if every job could be done with machines, like building things and medical procedures, how would you get access to these resources, would you have to be completly reliant on someone giving them to you, or do you have to seek them out for yourself, and if there were no jobs and everything was given to you, why would you want to get an education, wouldn't that just make people dumber than they are today?
Ok the one about the drunken driver for example, its well known that the actual computer could read alcohol levels through the skin via the touch of the hand on the steering wheel. however, what is a fundamental question here, is how much people are really going to be willing to give their autonomy to machines, they have let us down - there is no way that society would function at all as we currently understand it if we relied to this extent on machines We are human after all.
The point about education really rings true with me. I became able to think for myself due to gratefully experiences and meeting people outside of the school environment. I do believe that the most important thing people need to realise and the most evident lack of due consideration given is that to the need for an education for all people in which they are allowed to think freely. We are continuously put down by the media. But really we have much more potential and its worth remembering that.
Once this starts it will snowball. Once people see that they can be free from servitude, the money masters will lose their power. I think it could happen fairly quickly, in relative terms. My question is, how do we get it rolling?
How do we get it rolling? My philosophy is this. Look at the world around you for things that you rely on. Now imagine how that could be produced without money. Now work at making this happen. Take medicine for example, we can't produce medicine like aspirin at home (as far as I know), or at least not yet. What would allow that to happen? In my opinion, the most valuable technology to work on is that which allows high-tech products to be produced at home. This movement has started.
What makes this a crock is that diverting resources from what we use them for now in order to make the long-term investments in all this new technology in the first place would impose sacrifices on people that would compare to the five-year plans, and that's what makes this communistic, all equivocating aside. The scarcity of our society results from the actual limited amount of resources at our disposal at current technological levels, not arbitrary monetary contrivances.
@petrus4 Uh...if that's true, then what exactly is he on about? Let's be clear about what we're talking about, because I want to make sure we're not talking past each other. When I talk about making investments in the technology, I'm talking about making investments in going from the actual, on-the-ground production techiques that are widely employed now, to the ones Fresco would prefer.
Sounds all well and good. So why don't you all get together, raise some money, build these resources and get to this new society rather than just pointing fingers and talking about it!
right........ two questions..... if money dont exist, what would drive ppl to solve problems? e.g... improve technology, solve future problems and diseases and discovery?
@Jiefyang someone who actually wants to :) the crap jobs, which no one wants to do, are boring, repetitive chores anyway, which can be fully replaced by machinery. All that would remain are things lots of people do for FUN. Stuff that actually interests people
@xxdiogenescynicxx communism is an ideology of the system as it is now. resourced based economy is another system, not an ideology of the current system.
the curent theory is outdated it's simple what is rare has the most economic value $, what is abundend has no ec value 0$ ,so in order to make an enterprize you need capital (in capitalist system ) right ? what is capital? something rare with ec value $ ,so what if thrugh technology what today is rare and has value and it's used as capital tomorow is abundend and cannot be used as capital $? there wouldn't be any capitalism ,that;s why nowone is researching anything that could destroy capital $
@iooo007 the US economy is crumbling, but it was because of too much government involvement, and government not sticking to its actual role of upholding the law.
google: "law bastiat pdf"
its surprising how a french economists words from 1850 is even more relevant today, than in his own day.
are destroying the sistem ,so isn't it obvious that the sistem is wrong? those two guys will be killed by the media ,they will be called impostores ,their inventions scams etc ,so basicly the sistem is based on an old theory from hundreds of years ago when there wasn't comunication technology and globalization ,when development was slow , industrial revolution took from england to germany more than 80 years to be implemented a new invention today can be implemented in years at a global scale
for example a german guy develops a house that can be buit semiautomaticly from recyclable matherials and higher energy eficiency ,what will happen to the global real estate markets? what will happen to the finnacial markets? another ex a japanese guy invents a humanoid robot not the terminator :)) far beyond but enough to overtake 30% let's say of the global labour market ? what will happen to the capitalist sistem? it will crash ,so basicly 2 inventions that are suposed to make our life better
if you ever wish to get your head out of the clouds and learn some actual economics, 'economics in one lesson' by Hazlitt.
read reviews of it on amazon. it's one of the best starters on economics around.
... if you are lazy, youtube 'peter schiff', he takes on the 'best' economists, even on on cnn; completely kicking their ass , he predicted the crash, and explains it in layman terms.
of course on the other-hand you can stick with this BS.
@TheAttackRat ... dude, by giving RBE such scant attention, you dismissively criticize a proven genius, who has been working on this concept for over seven decades. If did give it some time and still come up with your 'bs' point of view, then your only problem is your inability to properly comprehend.
americans don't live the lives they were suposed to live they live better because they are the centre of the empire and they shouldn't be botherd so hard ,basicly US is stealing wealth from the whole world right now and they say that capitalism is so good ,we have a crisis why? because some house prices plunjed less than 50% imagine this the sistem right now is working against tehnology development nowone is reserching none of the big problems of humanity .
...achieve. This is the state when the population controls everything. No-one will be able to make money of another, this will lead to more acceptance on the ablation of the money system. From there it goes as its said.
This is simply what I believe, and if it is communism or "the venus project" it doesn't make a big of a difference for me. The venus project is harder to acchieve than communism but either way, they are possible to achieve.
@Jamannen3 ... Though, the venus project, the resourced based economy is not an "ism", and in some ways it's not even an ideology. It's a better alternative of the society. Of course there wouldn't be a class society nor a state in this society, but communism is in fact not only these keynotes - communism is an alternative for how the current system should be ruled, when, as previously stated, the resourced based economy is an alternative of the system itself.
As I see it, the easiest way would to achieve the resource based economy would be to previously have achieved the communist society. Simply because it's the most fair and equal monetary system. The workers would have to be replaced by machines and would have to work in different areas, which wouldn't really be much of a problem with the good education communism intends to have.
@Jamannen3 The easiest way would be to get people open their eyes and stop supporting the monetary system itself - which is going towards its end anyway and getting more and more chaotic by this. When the monetary system collapses the resourced based economy will seem a lot more obvious to people than to build another corrupt monetary system.
In communism corruption would be impossible. It would be easier to accept and achieve the resource based system because the changes in the system wouldn't have to be very large.
@sorlag110 the monetary system will collapse because the fed pushed too much money supply into the system... this will create hyper-inflation by about 2012. already the gold price has tripled in price in under 7 years.
@Jamannen3 it's "(something)" capital in English. but ok... will you read 'the law' by Frederick Bastiat in return???
I've started the 'communist philosophy' one already, but will read 'de capital' as well. i mean it can only strengthen my argument against it, and i am still open minded to possible agreement with it (i doubt it for now).
This video has got me thinking. It would be very nice to live in, and relies on human intelligence. And creating a money-less society would take a long time.
First of all religion shouldn't be as big as it is now. It slows down the development of technology and logic thinking. After this is done, imperialism has to go and capitalism has to go. When that is done socialism has to be the main system and later on evolve to communism. This would be the second hardest, if not the hardest thing to...
@Jamannen3 if it shouldn't be as big. you can't do this without forcing people to go along. this is exactly how every other communist regime started. communism/socialism is synonyms with force. you can't do it without making other people go along with your idea.
First of all, a communist nation has never existed. Secondly, a communist nation can't be a regime because it's the population who make the decisions and build the nation. In communism theres nobody who has more rights than another person. Don't bother talking about communism if you don't even know the basics.
Communism can only be achieved with a revolution. Therefore the large majority has to understand, be well educated and agree with the ideas of communism.
@Jamannen3 no, you have no clue how reality works. money is just a form of bartering, it arises naturally. the only way to take money away is to take the right to use one's possessions as they want. Get it?
What you are saying only proves that you are an idiot, fooled by the people who controls you.
You've yet to explain why a resourced based economy wouldn't work, you have yet to explain why our current system isn't corrupt. All you say is irrelevant facts, period.
@sorlag110 also, when you watch that video. notice that from 1665 to 1913 we've had a fairly capitalist system. that all went down the drain when the currency was taken off the gold standard. + if i have to tell you why we are not a truly capitalist society, then you really should go around with such confidence that this system is right when you cannot know why this system does not work. watch the video i suggested.
@Jamannen3 also. the some things require that our liberties are taken away to live in a desirable society. such as the liberty to kill another. the collective majority force their opinion on the individual for self survival by using the punishment system as a way to let others know these things won't be allowed to happen.
@TheAttackRat BTW in a truly free capitalist society (libertarian). You are free to be as communistic as you like, so long as you do not force people to do anything, or kill someone.
But of course, a communist society cannot function without the use of force upon the individual. Even in democracy we need force to uphold the law. this is primarily done with tax (not optional). but because we know up to 50% of peoples views have to be over-rided, we (should) therefore limit government.
@TheAttackRat not quite correct, communism cant be don't without everyone wanting it.. there has never been a communist nation and even with the venus, people have to want it.... I don't personally subscribe to communism but i don't see anything wrong with it, and I dont see anything wrong with the venus project either...i have read enough the former to make such a conclusion. with that aside... just to ask you TheAttackRat, how do you see the future??
@TheAttackRat hey i'm from romania there was a survey a few weeks ago if ceausescu will run for president would you vote? 43% of those interviewd chose him over our current liders and oposing party leaders 43% in the second round he will surely win ,70% of the population thought that life was better in comunism even though we can humiliate ourselves for higher pay in western europe ,so even the young people realised that comunism was better USA is not a simple capitalst country is an empire.
scientific, artistic, spiritual and technological incentives sound great to me, rather than money... after all, in the end we all die and we cant take money, power and capital with you.
@BlackNeon9 you take nothing with you. you'd be dead.. and death would arrive much fast if this system was ever thaken seriously and IMPOSED on people. i say imposed because i could never happen without forcing people to go along with it.
fresco: "you should fear machine, they take your job"
fresco: "machines free people up to do other things"
the guy is off this tree people. he is not in touch with reality and people fought hard to have the right to do what we wish so long as it did no harm to others. these rights would be obliterated if any attempt was ever made at this fantasy.
this is just communism 2.0. and no this is not capitalism.
You are the one who is blinded here, open your eyes, brother.
Take a look at the view and realise the corruption of the whole system.
A capitalistic society is when in the society, the means of production are privatly owned and that someone can make a huge profit of it. Explain how we're not
a capitalistic society, explain what the world really is then, go ahead.
It's really easy to just sit there saying I'm wrong without proving that you are right.
@sorlag110 We are not a capitalist society because effectively all politicians follow Keynesian thought. the boom bust cycle is induced. bail-outs and even minimum wage controls destroy freedom. think about it, if i am poor and i wish to work for someone for under minimum wage, it would be illegal for me to do so. and if minimum wage is increased, people lose their job.
i highly recommend u youtube: Milton Friedman and listen to his arguments.
buy book:'how an economy grows and why it crashes'
@TheAttackRat infact. if you ever wish to understand capitalism. google "Bastiat law pdf' it should be the first page.
read that book and you will at least understand my point of view. it's only 50 pages and is a quick read enjoyable read.
at least understand my point of view.. imagine being the first to suggest evolution, they'd call you mad. yet there is such overwhelming proof for it, you'd be crazy (or religious) to deny it today, right?
And at your theory of the technological development you have to look at history.
Look at the ancient technological advancements. Even though the ancient societies were somehow corrupt with mean emperors and alike, it doesn't disapprove my point. The point is that they built pyramids, stone circles, gigantic ships, they knew about the stars and planets, they had tools we've yet to understand. All this got lost with the start of the monetary system and christianity.
I will explain what a capitalist is because you don't seem to know it.
A capitalist is a person who owns more means of production that he himself could use. Therefore he "purchases" workers so the means of productions could be used the way they were intended to do.
So far I have explained that the capitalist owns the means of production and the workers.
This is what a capitalist is.
This wouldn't be done if the capitalist wasn't able to earn any money from it....
..To make money he has to sell the products which his workers have produced. I'll explain it by an equation. X is the materials cost, Y is the cost to produce the product.
The products base value would be X+Y=Z. This is only the base. In order to make profit of the products produces an extra cost would appear. T. T is the amount the capitalist wants. So, the price would be: X+Y+T=F. So, if F should be average or lower price compared to other similar products (if X is the same) ..
@Jamannen3 if he increases too much, he goes out of business (incentive for being competitive) ... and remember he/she can always choose to work for someone else or even start his own.
i have studied actual capitalism quite a bit. & a key part is something called the law, protecting individual rights. + keynesian isn't capitalism.
if everyones rights are enforced, capitalism naturally arises just as it did many times in the past. the only way any form of socialism can is if people are coerced.
@TheAttackRat note: captialism can work even when people's rights are taken away... except this would be the fault of the law makers, of a failure to uphold it.
allowing people to sell thier possesions/services is not somehow evil.
youtube: milton friedman
at least try to understand the other side. this video was a bunch of pretty idealistic scenes.
@Jamannen3 ok, lets say working days are set to 90hours a week. then what? the workers always have the choice to not work. same with working conditions.
who throws you out on the streets and why? because you can't afford payments? (that is what family/friends are for; to support you when down) you've bought into some propaganda it seems.
please refer to me one instance in which you think socialism worked?
democracy can only satisfy 50% of people, thats why we minimize government.
If you choose not to work, you would most likely not afford your rent, your food, your clothes, your bills etc. If you can't pay your rent the property owner will throw you out on the street because he gets no money you, he wouldn't profit. If you have a family and someone else in it who works, great! Now you might be able to keep the house, but you would have to do some cutbacks.
Democracy should satisfy more than 50% of the people, in this case it's kept up by...
brainwashing propaganda. We don't live in a real democracy. E.g. in the us the politicians are pre-chosen. You can't get voted as president of you don't meet certain thinking-requirements. You have two things persons choose from; a democrat or a republican. Both of which are pretty much the same.
The companies are either controlled by capitalists or the state. It's not controlled by the people. All you can do is to either nod or leave.
'that fact is, as technology grows, the need for the workforce will be diminished'
WTF!! how dumb can this video get. it is now technophobic!? hey i know. how about we ban railways so anyone unemployed can just carry it on thier back to where-ever cargo needs to go. unemployment problem fixed. *facepalm*
the only way to rid money is to ban it. money is a natural form of bartering.
@BlackNeon9 but only because the federal reserve has its powers. read 'the law' by 'Frederick bastiat', an excellent short book. you can get it free by googling "the law bastiat pdf"
A synonym for Anarchism is Libertarian Socialism. So yeah, Anarchism IS socialism, because it wants the means of production to be controlled by those affected (the workers).
@GodOfTheInternets I guess you didn't see my '/snark' closing. (My comment was sarcasm.)
I believe a system that favors Socialism is a good one. To me it seems like a good path to a resource based economy that we will hopefully have before we destroy ourselves or all become serfs again as we were in the Dark Ages.
socialism is not relevant in this context, because it is rooted in the use of money. The real revelation is that we can make money obsolete through the use of science and technology, by creating an abundance. The world is changing, no matter what we think is right and believe... and it is our job to influence things.
if you realize this then you are on your way my friend.
@Paalfaal I agree with you. (I was going for laughs.)
I agree that abundance through science and technology will take care of us all. My skepticism comes from those that hold greed close and want to control everything. People like that have no interest in humanity, only profit and control. I agree with you wholeheartedly. But I fear crossing that bridge to where money is obsolete will be a tough journey.
who will maintain machines if they break down??... the entire population will have to be a scientist or an engineer. this is a nice idea tho. interesting videos thank for this..
@BlackNeon9 Its about developing machines that dont break down. this can be done. Think of this. An eletric company can make a lightbulb that lasts indefinately but they wont because they need them to break after a year to make more money. cars can be made that run on electricity, and solid state devices that virtually requires no maintenance, however, if it breaks the maintenance or repair can be carried out by anyone literally anyone.
@Rime247 Traditional light bulbs burn out because at the temperatures needed to make the tungsten filament glow in visible light causes metal to boil off the filament. Eventually the filament gets to be too weak to hold together and it breaks...opening the circuit.
Things wear out eventually. There is no such thing as no maintenance or no wearing out. That is utopian, and not much better than a perpetual motion machine. You can't get around entropy.
@Kallistos1 You can't get around the science they taught you. You really think they want you to know everything they know? Nope. And oh they aren't evil liars that would do such a thing. But of course I am crazy for thinking they are bad men. Cause they never lie to suppress this civilization, they don't want that. Or do they want what they want? Of course. So what if that is why they burn out because of that. You miss his point. Yeah entropy. So what? They do have great tech hidden.
Entropy puts inescapable limits on almost everything, even if everyone is nice, and hunky-dory and peachy-keen, times arrow still flies one way, and all work ends up as useless waste heat. There is no perpetual motion.
Yes, Edison light bulbs are inefficient, because it produces light via that inefficiency. Its better than the previous alternative. I'm hardly saying one should not switch to CFLs (though they have issues with mercury pollution when they break), or LEDs.
@BlackNeon9 well we should be taught from birth about the upkeep of the machines, it would be like knowing how to tie a shoelace, exccept for a person of our age, it be like einstein shit, we'd be like wtf where is the red button lol i have faith in my sons sons. they are gonna be smart ass motherfuckers
i can't believe how we don't want this. Not worrying about money is so uplifting. Look who keeps coming up with new technologies. they only make it after they get all the money out of that tech. NASA is 100 years ahead of the technology we got now, y can't they put it to worldly use. even the military is ahead in technology by 50+ years look at the air force satellites that can look into ur house from space jeez wake up people
@ghostrecon9200 : As long as food costs money, there will always be money. Only when there is some farmer out there that is willing to feed the world for no compensation, we will be caged to continue monetary values. Even if we automate the labor involved in creating the food, the designer, manufacturer and sellers will all want to be fed for their labor. A resource society is a lazy society, and laziness causes imbalance, imbalance causes greed.
I don't know why you chose the farmer as your example, a farmer would probably have the most to gain from being freed from the need to work.
Your notion that "a resource society is a lazy society" is unfounded and illogical. I think it would be fair to say that the majority of people only work so that they can gain the resources needed for them to lead a happy life. If the need for work was removed, nothing would keep people from living a happy life.
@MrAmericaPie : that was 2 months ago, I can't remember what was going through my mind at the time. I think I was trying to state that money circulates, and you can't block just 1 point in the cycle, the money will just divert around it. I have NO clue why I said the last part, sorry. The problem with working for resources is that the cost of the resource is far more than the income given for labor (most companies are on a 15% payroll)...that's BS to me.
Geeeezzzz. This stuff went out in the 1960 as people realized this concept was just nonsense. We have many more people in the world now than the 1960s, a better life style and most that want jobs have them and work less physically, shorter hours and have more benefits.
Somebody needs to think a little more before making an ass of themsleves.
@kmarinas86 I was really hoping it wouldn't be, but when I show it to other people that I know they just generally don't get it, or refer back to a political paradigm which would be irrelevant in such a system.
Its so difficult to help someone realize they have been socialized in a certain way, and perhaps even, a way which is inherently against their well-being.
As Peter Gibbins once said "Michael, we don't have a lot of time on this earth! We weren't meant to spend it this way. Human beings were not meant to sit in little cubicles staring at computer screens all day, filling out useless forms and listening to eight different bosses drone on about about mission statements. "
magnetite2 3 days ago
Great so nobody has to work ever again and we all spend our life watching tv, doing drugs and fucking hookers or what? All of humanity would become fat decadent slobs
goGyft 6 days ago
LOL
phoweshg357 3 weeks ago
Jaques Fresco is full of shit. He never even graduated high school or went to college.
Shonenut213 1 month ago
@Shonenut213 No, but he's designed a lot of things and worked for a lot of companies including Universal. You don't need college if you're smart enough and already getting jobs do you, idiot. PS Bill Gates is a college drop out.
skatejam7 1 month ago
1984
Brave New Worlds
iRobot
Nuff said this RBE idea is crap! Humans will just becomes slaves to the machines and the collective.
Shonenut213 1 month ago
@Shonenut213
So you base your views on fiction, good to know.
MudHut67 1 week ago
@MudHut67 They are works of fiction. But their senarios are very plausible.
Shonenut213 1 week ago
@Shonenut213
How do you know? 1984 is antiquated and iRobot is a Hollywood film. The fiction you need to derive ideas from would be history.
MudHut67 1 week ago
"If you make a painting that you enjoy, you will enjoy giving it to other people, NOT SELLING IT." Art work by nature has sentimental value to the one that has worked on it. If one desire to keep my painting in a RBE, where can they store their painting in a safe place especially if housing is just as available as water or air and is communally owned. This RBE is a naive idea at best and fascism in a clever disguise at worst.
GenRev1611 1 month ago
@GenRev1611
You make no sense. You will still have a house, a home, a place of residence. So naturally you'd keep your painting there, wouldn't you? How can you not have a house if it is abundant? That's like asking where can they get a glass of water if water is abundant. Really, that made no sense.
MudHut67 1 week ago
@MudHut67 Upon what basis is the house owned by. If resources are shared like oxygen how can it be mine?, that is the question.
GenRev1611 1 week ago
@GenRev1611
This video does not mention what form of government there is, nor does it say anything about land ownership. HOWEVER, even in Soviet Russia you 'owned' your home, unless their dictators needed that land for whatever reason. Under this system one could still own a house, and whatever there is inside. The whole point is that energy and the basic human needs are free, and shared, but under this system land ownership is still there, as is possession material.
MudHut67 1 week ago
As long as money exists the human race will never be free.
skilo1983 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
the CGI segment at 01:05, where is that from? I can't make out the caption there...
britoca 2 months ago
It has merit & intrsting points, but ther wil never b a time with no money, its called communism, & history shows that its a utopia. Also its hard to believe that humans wont work at some point in time, our nature is too competitive & we just cant sit still, robots may replace us, but if robots'll invent for us, they wont need us ;) In my opinion there will always be division between societies, not necessarily financial ones, might be intellectual or may b of som other kind. Anyway, interesting!
therao123 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
There already was a TV show the Exemplified a Resource Based Economy and that was all the Star Trek Series!
EasternMerchant 3 months ago
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EasternMerchant 3 months ago
what most people fail to realize is that..... the Life of a typical Fruit Tree will outlive any human being 10,000's times over, and a single of those trees could sustain a 100 families in a single harvest, so I think the earth is naturally equipped to sustain all life on earth. It's just.... there's a bunch of bullies who want everything and take from the weak and poor. We shouldn't worry about population growth because only a small percentage ever live past 65 unlike a fruit tree.
EasternMerchant 3 months ago
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EasternMerchant 3 months ago
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EasternMerchant 3 months ago
OCCUPY IS THE FIRST STEP FORWARD! OCCUPY EVERYWHERE!
ShroukiePoo 4 months ago
What drivel...
TacticalCitySlicker 4 months ago
i get so mad watching this videos because i know stuff like this is probably not going to happen in my lifetime but i want it to so bad!! why do we have to be tied down by the government and corporations!!! i hate that. we should for a group of people and make stuff like this happen instead of waiting we should stand up and take them down by any means.
TheRodriguezo 6 months ago 12
@TheRodriguezo hehe don't worry, alot of people feel this way, just two years have passed and there are over 100 million people who support this, they also feel the same way you do, I believe things will start happening very fast, just like the technological trend and population that's growing at an exponential rate, so will the evolution of our social structures. I hear that Australia is already having a project like this underway.
EasternMerchant 3 months ago
@TheRodriguezo join ur local occupy movement or start one! dont jus sit about
chooby3000 1 month ago
@TheRodriguezo This societal system, is what will most likely follow after the next economic collapse, which signs say is where we are headed. Our history is one of birth and decay. The feudal system was born, work for a bit, stressed itself to its limits and died, mercantilism followed the same path. It looks like "Free market Capitalism" will go the same way. It has been useful, it has had it's time. We are now seeing that system get stressed to its breaking point. Don't worry, this will be.
SonOfNye 1 month ago
Imagine everyone would benifit man kind. Since there would be no pointless job such as sales man or bus driver everyone would be a scientist or artist or philosopher or tennis player or architect. Imagine how quickly our woulds technology and abundace would go up. There would be millions of people only helping eachother
127miles 6 months ago
I understand they are trying to make a movie that will showcase life in an RBE. The Venus Project is seeking donations for this, is there anyone supporting it? I'm a broke student at the moment but I would love to see such a film. Especially if it's not a documentary, but a fiction with all the makings of an entertaining film! I've always planned on writing a story like that.
MrSaint3 7 months ago 16
we can never reach perfection. but we can try. this is a step forward.
gumbeezy13 7 months ago 2
@gumbeezy13
Perfections to me means to constantly adapt and evolve. Perfection cannot be ONE POINT in my eyes. Because perfection is always seeking out how to face the challenge ahead before it comes. Is that what it is to you?
pwih1987 4 months ago
@pwih1987 That's exactly what perfection is. It's the same reason it unachievable. But the right direction to strive for. That's the beauty of improvement; there's always room for it.
gumbeezy13 3 months ago
@gumbeezy13
Perfection can be achieved. The act of implementing a system or taking actions that will be able to face future problems is perfection. Perfection is not one point. When you achieve something you reach a goal. there is no goal with perfection. Well there is........to face each challenge with efficiency. I see that in the venus project.
pwih1987 3 months ago
So, It's a nice idea but it just can't work. Do not underestimate the human stupidity. There will always be a need for control.
LaBambathereal 7 months ago
@LaBambathereal I really appreciate your 'opposing' perspective/point of view. It's enriching. Have you ever thought of contributing on the official website's forum discussion? Just google "The Venus Project" or "Zeitgeist Movement" official websites, and register, and just try post your thoughts there. I'm sure it would be at least highly respected & regarded (without name-calling & personal-attack, just straight pure logical-thinking sharing). This system is still 'new', and needs improvement.
nikiwonoto 7 months ago
If there's no limits at all our consumption would go sky high, people just feasting with material. Having a garage full of cars, eating all kind of exotic food, traveling around the world without any worries. Does this really work, if everyone starts to do it? And how about the land? If that becomes free, people just start to build thing like crazy. When the space runs out they start to fight over the land, like in the old days.
LaBambathereal 7 months ago
@LaBambathereal not true. u have to realize that the main goal is for humans to survive in the most productive way. there would be no need for cars because public trans would take over an be free. food would be free but there would be a different way of thinking where people dont want to just get fat. the main goal is survival in the healthiest way. plus birth rates would slow down an there would be a cap on the population, but again there would be no problem.
TOREN5611 4 months ago
@TOREN5611
IF everyone was provided for you think there would be a cap on population? No. This system is made so population can grow. Death will balance it out. Abundance is an extremely plentiful or oversufficient quantity or supply. There would be no reason for a cap on population. And if I do not have to worry about much trust me I am going to have way more sex and kids.
pwih1987 4 months ago
there's flaws in this video, schools do teach media literacy. And the further you go in school systems, the more they encourage you to think on your own, because you already have that basic knowledge. I do like this series idea that what if the most expensive high tech today would become free and accessible for everyone. It would be like the Renaissance or the age of Roman Empire, new ideas popping out everywhere. Our technology would greatly improve in a matter of years.
LaBambathereal 7 months ago
@LaBambathereal Our schools are based upon the Prusian model of the 1800's. Its purpose was to indoctrinate the children to be obedient, docile, and to stifle critical thinking.
Our schools destroy children's thirst for knowledge, by forcing them to memorize data (of which most are uninterested) under stressful deadlines, and telling them what to do and think.
Imagine a school where kids are free to learn what they want, at their own pace, and instead of a dictator the teacher is a mentor.
IHighLikePlane 7 months ago
@IHighLikePlane Public schools were first and foremost founded because the need to make more suitable workforce for radically developing society. (Machines took all the simple jobs) This is still the basic principle of almost every school, they sell with it. (this many percent has graduated, they have got here from there etc.). Learning just because the fun, expanding your view or want to know more, not for a job... I like that image =)
LaBambathereal 7 months ago 4
This has been my dream since a little kid. This type of economy, science advancements and unification of mankind, are the only hope for a world free of war
alb2012doom 7 months ago 3
I agree, except being completely reliant on robots. I mean its great but you need some human in the mix.
RefreshChannel 8 months ago
This sounds like communism on paper, which isn't a bad thing. The part that worries me is that like all experiments into communism on a grand-scale it seems like it will eventually fall apart. How do we take today's world where we don't have energy as abundant as air and everyone having to work to survive, to this utopia that's the exact opposite of that? Do we depend on today's governments who don't want this or make a new government that risks being just as corrupt?
alphabit251 8 months ago 2
@alphabit251 it's
NOT COMMNISM BECAUSE IT IS NOT A GOVERNMENT!!!!!!! gosh your from the u.s? if you are then no wonder.
RefreshChannel 8 months ago
@RefreshChannel
Somebody's mad.
alphabit251 8 months ago
@alphabit251 Somebody needs to be taken to rehab
RefreshChannel 8 months ago
@alphabit251 we learn, educate others, and spread knowledge as well as compassion and empathy.
BudDub67 7 months ago
how do i act? how do i try to change peoples minds? how do we get people to believe in this Utopia, rather than thinking the term Utopia is a mythical unachievable thing? our planet, our species, ALL species need us to act on the values of Fresco et al, but how do you persuade the indoctrinated?
beefshotgun 8 months ago
@beefshotgun idk. people are just stubborn.
RefreshChannel 8 months ago
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beefshotgun 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I wanted to add - that they can also put sensors on the steering wheel that can detect alcohol content through the skin, therefore a drunken driver can not drive. However, thanks to films such as I robot - and space odyssey that explore philosophical questions about reliance on technology - we have to be aware of computer malfunction. We need a balance between human intelligence and computer intelligence. We can not rely entirely on either.
MARSBELLA1 8 months ago
I wanted to add - that they can also put sensors on the steering wheel that can detect alcohol content through the skin, therefore a drunken driver can not drive. However, thanks to films such as I robot - and space odyssey that explore philosophical questions about reliance on technology - we have to be aware of computer malfunction. We need a balance between human intelligence and computer intelligence. We can not rely entirely on either.
MARSBELLA1 8 months ago
my biggest concern about this idea, is if every job could be done with machines, like building things and medical procedures, how would you get access to these resources, would you have to be completly reliant on someone giving them to you, or do you have to seek them out for yourself, and if there were no jobs and everything was given to you, why would you want to get an education, wouldn't that just make people dumber than they are today?
conraddoavil 9 months ago
Ok the one about the drunken driver for example, its well known that the actual computer could read alcohol levels through the skin via the touch of the hand on the steering wheel. however, what is a fundamental question here, is how much people are really going to be willing to give their autonomy to machines, they have let us down - there is no way that society would function at all as we currently understand it if we relied to this extent on machines We are human after all.
MARSBELLA1 9 months ago
The point about education really rings true with me. I became able to think for myself due to gratefully experiences and meeting people outside of the school environment. I do believe that the most important thing people need to realise and the most evident lack of due consideration given is that to the need for an education for all people in which they are allowed to think freely. We are continuously put down by the media. But really we have much more potential and its worth remembering that.
MARSBELLA1 9 months ago
Once this starts it will snowball. Once people see that they can be free from servitude, the money masters will lose their power. I think it could happen fairly quickly, in relative terms. My question is, how do we get it rolling?
webgeek6 10 months ago
@webgeek6
How do we get it rolling? My philosophy is this. Look at the world around you for things that you rely on. Now imagine how that could be produced without money. Now work at making this happen. Take medicine for example, we can't produce medicine like aspirin at home (as far as I know), or at least not yet. What would allow that to happen? In my opinion, the most valuable technology to work on is that which allows high-tech products to be produced at home. This movement has started.
blahdelablah 10 months ago
damn strait!!!
83Mathdude 10 months ago
Right now, we live by the law of the jungle. Not a day goes by I don't wish death on those that keep us down.
superluminalthought 1 year ago 2
@superluminalthought thats harsh...NOT.. sounds like me... BSAFE, & checkout my show...
evolvedliving 11 months ago
Zeitgeist, yeah you are awesome!
DoNotLaughAtMe 1 year ago
What makes this a crock is that diverting resources from what we use them for now in order to make the long-term investments in all this new technology in the first place would impose sacrifices on people that would compare to the five-year plans, and that's what makes this communistic, all equivocating aside. The scarcity of our society results from the actual limited amount of resources at our disposal at current technological levels, not arbitrary monetary contrivances.
headleyjohn1 1 year ago
@headleyjohn1 Most of the robotic infrastructure he's talking about here, already exists.
petrus4 1 year ago
@petrus4 Uh...if that's true, then what exactly is he on about? Let's be clear about what we're talking about, because I want to make sure we're not talking past each other. When I talk about making investments in the technology, I'm talking about making investments in going from the actual, on-the-ground production techiques that are widely employed now, to the ones Fresco would prefer.
headleyjohn1 1 year ago
Sounds all well and good. So why don't you all get together, raise some money, build these resources and get to this new society rather than just pointing fingers and talking about it!
QBALL85 1 year ago
@QBALL85 I'm sure the Fed or someone else would have them killed.
JWLuke787 1 year ago
@JWLuke787 No, they wont. They might try to shut you down but rally enough support from people and it could be done.
QBALL85 1 year ago
right........ two questions..... if money dont exist, what would drive ppl to solve problems? e.g... improve technology, solve future problems and diseases and discovery?
and if it is to be set up.. who would set it up?
Jiefyang 1 year ago
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Bos187 1 year ago
@Jiefyang someone who actually wants to :) the crap jobs, which no one wants to do, are boring, repetitive chores anyway, which can be fully replaced by machinery. All that would remain are things lots of people do for FUN. Stuff that actually interests people
Bos187 1 year ago
@Jiefyang The most creative people with the most innovative ideas don't do it for profit.
Xinoutorah 1 year ago 3
Sounds like communism.
xxdiogenescynicxx 1 year ago
@xxdiogenescynicxx communism is an ideology of the system as it is now. resourced based economy is another system, not an ideology of the current system.
sorlag110 1 year ago
@sorlag110 i could not have put it in a better way :)
BlackNeon9 1 year ago
the curent theory is outdated it's simple what is rare has the most economic value $, what is abundend has no ec value 0$ ,so in order to make an enterprize you need capital (in capitalist system ) right ? what is capital? something rare with ec value $ ,so what if thrugh technology what today is rare and has value and it's used as capital tomorow is abundend and cannot be used as capital $? there wouldn't be any capitalism ,that;s why nowone is researching anything that could destroy capital $
iooo007 1 year ago
@iooo007 the US economy is crumbling, but it was because of too much government involvement, and government not sticking to its actual role of upholding the law.
google: "law bastiat pdf"
its surprising how a french economists words from 1850 is even more relevant today, than in his own day.
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
are destroying the sistem ,so isn't it obvious that the sistem is wrong? those two guys will be killed by the media ,they will be called impostores ,their inventions scams etc ,so basicly the sistem is based on an old theory from hundreds of years ago when there wasn't comunication technology and globalization ,when development was slow , industrial revolution took from england to germany more than 80 years to be implemented a new invention today can be implemented in years at a global scale
iooo007 1 year ago
for example a german guy develops a house that can be buit semiautomaticly from recyclable matherials and higher energy eficiency ,what will happen to the global real estate markets? what will happen to the finnacial markets? another ex a japanese guy invents a humanoid robot not the terminator :)) far beyond but enough to overtake 30% let's say of the global labour market ? what will happen to the capitalist sistem? it will crash ,so basicly 2 inventions that are suposed to make our life better
iooo007 1 year ago
@iooo007 pure ignorance; only on Youtube.
if you ever wish to get your head out of the clouds and learn some actual economics, 'economics in one lesson' by Hazlitt.
read reviews of it on amazon. it's one of the best starters on economics around.
... if you are lazy, youtube 'peter schiff', he takes on the 'best' economists, even on on cnn; completely kicking their ass , he predicted the crash, and explains it in layman terms.
of course on the other-hand you can stick with this BS.
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
@TheAttackRat ... dude, by giving RBE such scant attention, you dismissively criticize a proven genius, who has been working on this concept for over seven decades. If did give it some time and still come up with your 'bs' point of view, then your only problem is your inability to properly comprehend.
xxxricky 1 year ago
americans don't live the lives they were suposed to live they live better because they are the centre of the empire and they shouldn't be botherd so hard ,basicly US is stealing wealth from the whole world right now and they say that capitalism is so good ,we have a crisis why? because some house prices plunjed less than 50% imagine this the sistem right now is working against tehnology development nowone is reserching none of the big problems of humanity .
iooo007 1 year ago
...achieve. This is the state when the population controls everything. No-one will be able to make money of another, this will lead to more acceptance on the ablation of the money system. From there it goes as its said.
This is simply what I believe, and if it is communism or "the venus project" it doesn't make a big of a difference for me. The venus project is harder to acchieve than communism but either way, they are possible to achieve.
Jamannen3 1 year ago
@Jamannen3 ... Though, the venus project, the resourced based economy is not an "ism", and in some ways it's not even an ideology. It's a better alternative of the society. Of course there wouldn't be a class society nor a state in this society, but communism is in fact not only these keynotes - communism is an alternative for how the current system should be ruled, when, as previously stated, the resourced based economy is an alternative of the system itself.
sorlag110 1 year ago
@sorlag110
As I see it, the easiest way would to achieve the resource based economy would be to previously have achieved the communist society. Simply because it's the most fair and equal monetary system. The workers would have to be replaced by machines and would have to work in different areas, which wouldn't really be much of a problem with the good education communism intends to have.
Jamannen3 1 year ago
@Jamannen3 The easiest way would be to get people open their eyes and stop supporting the monetary system itself - which is going towards its end anyway and getting more and more chaotic by this. When the monetary system collapses the resourced based economy will seem a lot more obvious to people than to build another corrupt monetary system.
sorlag110 1 year ago
@sorlag110
In communism corruption would be impossible. It would be easier to accept and achieve the resource based system because the changes in the system wouldn't have to be very large.
Jamannen3 1 year ago
@sorlag110 the monetary system will collapse because the fed pushed too much money supply into the system... this will create hyper-inflation by about 2012. already the gold price has tripled in price in under 7 years.
see: Austrian economics
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
@Jamannen3 so effectively my rights are taken away. i cannot choose to work for my neighboor if he chooses to reward it with something i want?
and what if i did not wish to live in this system? what incentive would i have to help it?
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
@TheAttackRat
If your neighbor offers you a more rewarding job, then you could take the job if you want to.
If you do not support the system you should join an association and/or protest.
Jamannen3 1 year ago
@Jamannen3 Read "the law" by Frederick Bastiat. in fact you can google it and get it for free; Google: "law Bastiat pdf"
it's only 50ish pages long and came out in 1850. but is just as relevant today as it is now. you'll like it, i bet.
What can't destroy your beliefs can only make them stronger right.
BTW, Bastiat is religious (i am atheist) and his religiousness does not interfere with his rational argument.
in return i'll read: 'marxist- leninst philosophy' A. P. Sheptulin.
deal? :)
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
@TheAttackRat
Read "Das Kapital" by Karl Marx.
Jamannen3 1 year ago
@Jamannen3 it's "(something)" capital in English. but ok... will you read 'the law' by Frederick Bastiat in return???
I've started the 'communist philosophy' one already, but will read 'de capital' as well. i mean it can only strengthen my argument against it, and i am still open minded to possible agreement with it (i doubt it for now).
if not, at least watch the link a gave you.?
here: >>> v=XnXZzx9pAmQ <<<
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
@TheAttackRat
I did watch it.
Jamannen3 1 year ago
This video has got me thinking. It would be very nice to live in, and relies on human intelligence. And creating a money-less society would take a long time.
First of all religion shouldn't be as big as it is now. It slows down the development of technology and logic thinking. After this is done, imperialism has to go and capitalism has to go. When that is done socialism has to be the main system and later on evolve to communism. This would be the second hardest, if not the hardest thing to...
Jamannen3 1 year ago
@Jamannen3 if it shouldn't be as big. you can't do this without forcing people to go along. this is exactly how every other communist regime started. communism/socialism is synonyms with force. you can't do it without making other people go along with your idea.
watch this >>> v=XnXZzx9pAmQ
(paste after 'watch?' in the url bar)
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
@TheAttackRat
First of all, a communist nation has never existed. Secondly, a communist nation can't be a regime because it's the population who make the decisions and build the nation. In communism theres nobody who has more rights than another person. Don't bother talking about communism if you don't even know the basics.
Communism can only be achieved with a revolution. Therefore the large majority has to understand, be well educated and agree with the ideas of communism.
Jamannen3 1 year ago
@Jamannen3 no, you have no clue how reality works. money is just a form of bartering, it arises naturally. the only way to take money away is to take the right to use one's possessions as they want. Get it?
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
@TheAttackRat
What you are saying only proves that you are an idiot, fooled by the people who controls you.
You've yet to explain why a resourced based economy wouldn't work, you have yet to explain why our current system isn't corrupt. All you say is irrelevant facts, period.
sorlag110 1 year ago
@sorlag110 also, when you watch that video. notice that from 1665 to 1913 we've had a fairly capitalist system. that all went down the drain when the currency was taken off the gold standard. + if i have to tell you why we are not a truly capitalist society, then you really should go around with such confidence that this system is right when you cannot know why this system does not work. watch the video i suggested.
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
@Jamannen3 also. the some things require that our liberties are taken away to live in a desirable society. such as the liberty to kill another. the collective majority force their opinion on the individual for self survival by using the punishment system as a way to let others know these things won't be allowed to happen.
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
@TheAttackRat BTW in a truly free capitalist society (libertarian). You are free to be as communistic as you like, so long as you do not force people to do anything, or kill someone.
But of course, a communist society cannot function without the use of force upon the individual. Even in democracy we need force to uphold the law. this is primarily done with tax (not optional). but because we know up to 50% of peoples views have to be over-rided, we (should) therefore limit government.
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
@TheAttackRat not quite correct, communism cant be don't without everyone wanting it.. there has never been a communist nation and even with the venus, people have to want it.... I don't personally subscribe to communism but i don't see anything wrong with it, and I dont see anything wrong with the venus project either...i have read enough the former to make such a conclusion. with that aside... just to ask you TheAttackRat, how do you see the future??
BlackNeon9 1 year ago
@BlackNeon9 i think communism is too idealistic, and makes too many assumption about human behaviour.
the future.. this video explains it very well:
watch?v=XnXZzx9pAmQ
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
@TheAttackRat hey i'm from romania there was a survey a few weeks ago if ceausescu will run for president would you vote? 43% of those interviewd chose him over our current liders and oposing party leaders 43% in the second round he will surely win ,70% of the population thought that life was better in comunism even though we can humiliate ourselves for higher pay in western europe ,so even the young people realised that comunism was better USA is not a simple capitalst country is an empire.
iooo007 1 year ago
scientific, artistic, spiritual and technological incentives sound great to me, rather than money... after all, in the end we all die and we cant take money, power and capital with you.
BlackNeon9 1 year ago
@BlackNeon9 you take nothing with you. you'd be dead.. and death would arrive much fast if this system was ever thaken seriously and IMPOSED on people. i say imposed because i could never happen without forcing people to go along with it.
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
fresco: "you should fear machine, they take your job"
fresco: "machines free people up to do other things"
the guy is off this tree people. he is not in touch with reality and people fought hard to have the right to do what we wish so long as it did no harm to others. these rights would be obliterated if any attempt was ever made at this fantasy.
this is just communism 2.0. and no this is not capitalism.
Austrian economics>Keynes
libertarian>all others
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
@TheAttackRat
You have not really listened to what's been said in the video.
It is directly for technology. Technology is paralized by the monetary system and it is one of the main things Jaques Fresco is against.
He is a lot more touch with reality than you are.
sorlag110 1 year ago
@sorlag110 no, it is actually the only reason we could have developed technology (i'm sure you'll disagree).
point is, fresco is for people who are not in touch with reality. So have fun with your addled mind, and fresco's.
It for people who don't know what capitalism is, and for people who think we live in a capitalist society.
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
@TheAttackRat
You are the one who is blinded here, open your eyes, brother.
Take a look at the view and realise the corruption of the whole system.
A capitalistic society is when in the society, the means of production are privatly owned and that someone can make a huge profit of it. Explain how we're not
a capitalistic society, explain what the world really is then, go ahead.
It's really easy to just sit there saying I'm wrong without proving that you are right.
sorlag110 1 year ago
@sorlag110 yes, there is huge corruption. but people are corrupt, not bits of paper.
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
Comment removed
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
@sorlag110 We are not a capitalist society because effectively all politicians follow Keynesian thought. the boom bust cycle is induced. bail-outs and even minimum wage controls destroy freedom. think about it, if i am poor and i wish to work for someone for under minimum wage, it would be illegal for me to do so. and if minimum wage is increased, people lose their job.
i highly recommend u youtube: Milton Friedman and listen to his arguments.
buy book:'how an economy grows and why it crashes'
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
@TheAttackRat infact. if you ever wish to understand capitalism. google "Bastiat law pdf' it should be the first page.
read that book and you will at least understand my point of view. it's only 50 pages and is a quick read enjoyable read.
at least understand my point of view.. imagine being the first to suggest evolution, they'd call you mad. yet there is such overwhelming proof for it, you'd be crazy (or religious) to deny it today, right?
people forget what capitalism actually is.
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
@TheAttackRat btw bastiat is religious. but that does not sabotage his argument. it's almost as water tight as the argument for evolution.
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
@TheAttackRat
And at your theory of the technological development you have to look at history.
Look at the ancient technological advancements. Even though the ancient societies were somehow corrupt with mean emperors and alike, it doesn't disapprove my point. The point is that they built pyramids, stone circles, gigantic ships, they knew about the stars and planets, they had tools we've yet to understand. All this got lost with the start of the monetary system and christianity.
sorlag110 1 year ago
@sorlag110 WHAT!!! haha... every succesful society was due to some form of money system... maybe egypt owed more to having slaves... use ur mind.
what we live in now is not capitalism .
austrian economics > keynes.
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
@TheAttackRat
I will explain what a capitalist is because you don't seem to know it.
A capitalist is a person who owns more means of production that he himself could use. Therefore he "purchases" workers so the means of productions could be used the way they were intended to do.
So far I have explained that the capitalist owns the means of production and the workers.
This is what a capitalist is.
This wouldn't be done if the capitalist wasn't able to earn any money from it....
Jamannen3 1 year ago
Comment removed
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
@TheAttackRat
..To make money he has to sell the products which his workers have produced. I'll explain it by an equation. X is the materials cost, Y is the cost to produce the product.
The products base value would be X+Y=Z. This is only the base. In order to make profit of the products produces an extra cost would appear. T. T is the amount the capitalist wants. So, the price would be: X+Y+T=F. So, if F should be average or lower price compared to other similar products (if X is the same) ..
Jamannen3 1 year ago
@TheAttackRat
... the workers' pay would have to be lower. So he changes the equation to:
X+Y-B+T+B=F
So he lowers the workers' pay with B and increases his with B.
I hope you understand it now.
Jamannen3 1 year ago
@Jamannen3 if he increases too much, he goes out of business (incentive for being competitive) ... and remember he/she can always choose to work for someone else or even start his own.
i have studied actual capitalism quite a bit. & a key part is something called the law, protecting individual rights. + keynesian isn't capitalism.
if everyones rights are enforced, capitalism naturally arises just as it did many times in the past. the only way any form of socialism can is if people are coerced.
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
@TheAttackRat note: captialism can work even when people's rights are taken away... except this would be the fault of the law makers, of a failure to uphold it.
allowing people to sell thier possesions/services is not somehow evil.
youtube: milton friedman
at least try to understand the other side. this video was a bunch of pretty idealistic scenes.
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
@TheAttackRat
By making the work days longer, the unemployment increases and lowers the working conditions. This makes the workers accept the low wage they get.
Today you are indirectly forced to work even if you suffer disabilities. If you don't, your'e thrown out on the streets.
Starting your own is pretty much doomed to fail if you don't know what you are doing, and you cant start your own w/o money to begin with.
Socialism works, and only a small minority would be affected negatively.
Jamannen3 1 year ago
@Jamannen3 ok, lets say working days are set to 90hours a week. then what? the workers always have the choice to not work. same with working conditions.
who throws you out on the streets and why? because you can't afford payments? (that is what family/friends are for; to support you when down) you've bought into some propaganda it seems.
please refer to me one instance in which you think socialism worked?
democracy can only satisfy 50% of people, thats why we minimize government.
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
@TheAttackRat
If you choose not to work, you would most likely not afford your rent, your food, your clothes, your bills etc. If you can't pay your rent the property owner will throw you out on the street because he gets no money you, he wouldn't profit. If you have a family and someone else in it who works, great! Now you might be able to keep the house, but you would have to do some cutbacks.
Democracy should satisfy more than 50% of the people, in this case it's kept up by...
Jamannen3 1 year ago
@TheAttackRat
brainwashing propaganda. We don't live in a real democracy. E.g. in the us the politicians are pre-chosen. You can't get voted as president of you don't meet certain thinking-requirements. You have two things persons choose from; a democrat or a republican. Both of which are pretty much the same.
The companies are either controlled by capitalists or the state. It's not controlled by the people. All you can do is to either nod or leave.
Jamannen3 1 year ago
@sorlag110 watch this:
>>> v=XnXZzx9pAmQ <<<
paste it after "watch?" in your URL bar
this video is probably the best i've seen explaining our current system, and how we are not really living under capitalism.
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
'that fact is, as technology grows, the need for the workforce will be diminished'
WTF!! how dumb can this video get. it is now technophobic!? hey i know. how about we ban railways so anyone unemployed can just carry it on thier back to where-ever cargo needs to go. unemployment problem fixed. *facepalm*
the only way to rid money is to ban it. money is a natural form of bartering.
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
@TheAttackRat money was a natural form of bartering, it used to be used to exchange goods, now it rules people..
BlackNeon9 1 year ago
@BlackNeon9 but only because the federal reserve has its powers. read 'the law' by 'Frederick bastiat', an excellent short book. you can get it free by googling "the law bastiat pdf"
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
everyone here should read utopia so they understand better the concept of a money free society.
biofire 1 year ago
Laws aren't meant to regulate behavior, they are designed to either generate fines or to enslave inmates (a palatable means of slavery)
Yaheuben66 1 year ago
why this group does not considered nuclear energy?
CHRIS1974100 1 year ago
(typical cynic way of thinking)
Oh you want to go to the moon HAHA WHY HAVENT YOU GONE YET!!! Bah no such think bah humbug.
Theyallfloatdownhere 1 year ago
This sounds like Socialism. It will never work. /snark.
webgeek6 1 year ago
@webgeek6
You're begging the question. Socialism has worked in the past, Anarchist Catalonia, the Free Territory.
GodOfTheInternets 1 year ago
@GodOfTheInternets anarchism IS NOT socialism. period. it is almost the opposite, though could provide fertile ground for socialism.
TheAttackRat 1 year ago
@TheAttackRat
A synonym for Anarchism is Libertarian Socialism. So yeah, Anarchism IS socialism, because it wants the means of production to be controlled by those affected (the workers).
GodOfTheInternets 1 year ago
@GodOfTheInternets I guess you didn't see my '/snark' closing. (My comment was sarcasm.)
I believe a system that favors Socialism is a good one. To me it seems like a good path to a resource based economy that we will hopefully have before we destroy ourselves or all become serfs again as we were in the Dark Ages.
webgeek6 1 year ago
@webgeek6
socialism is not relevant in this context, because it is rooted in the use of money. The real revelation is that we can make money obsolete through the use of science and technology, by creating an abundance. The world is changing, no matter what we think is right and believe... and it is our job to influence things.
if you realize this then you are on your way my friend.
Paalfaal 1 year ago 2
@Paalfaal I agree with you. (I was going for laughs.)
I agree that abundance through science and technology will take care of us all. My skepticism comes from those that hold greed close and want to control everything. People like that have no interest in humanity, only profit and control. I agree with you wholeheartedly. But I fear crossing that bridge to where money is obsolete will be a tough journey.
You can count me as one ready for that fight.
webgeek6 1 year ago 2
Zero point energy is just around the corner.
MennoManski 1 year ago
who will maintain machines if they break down??... the entire population will have to be a scientist or an engineer. this is a nice idea tho. interesting videos thank for this..
BlackNeon9 1 year ago
@BlackNeon9 Its about developing machines that dont break down. this can be done. Think of this. An eletric company can make a lightbulb that lasts indefinately but they wont because they need them to break after a year to make more money. cars can be made that run on electricity, and solid state devices that virtually requires no maintenance, however, if it breaks the maintenance or repair can be carried out by anyone literally anyone.
Rime247 1 year ago
@Rime247 I totally agree :)
BlackNeon9 1 year ago
@Rime247 Traditional light bulbs burn out because at the temperatures needed to make the tungsten filament glow in visible light causes metal to boil off the filament. Eventually the filament gets to be too weak to hold together and it breaks...opening the circuit.
Things wear out eventually. There is no such thing as no maintenance or no wearing out. That is utopian, and not much better than a perpetual motion machine. You can't get around entropy.
Kallistos1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
you completely missed the point.
Rime247 1 year ago
@Kallistos1 You can't get around the science they taught you. You really think they want you to know everything they know? Nope. And oh they aren't evil liars that would do such a thing. But of course I am crazy for thinking they are bad men. Cause they never lie to suppress this civilization, they don't want that. Or do they want what they want? Of course. So what if that is why they burn out because of that. You miss his point. Yeah entropy. So what? They do have great tech hidden.
Theyallfloatdownhere 1 year ago
@Theyallfloatdownhere
Entropy puts inescapable limits on almost everything, even if everyone is nice, and hunky-dory and peachy-keen, times arrow still flies one way, and all work ends up as useless waste heat. There is no perpetual motion.
Yes, Edison light bulbs are inefficient, because it produces light via that inefficiency. Its better than the previous alternative. I'm hardly saying one should not switch to CFLs (though they have issues with mercury pollution when they break), or LEDs.
Kallistos1 1 year ago
@BlackNeon9 well we should be taught from birth about the upkeep of the machines, it would be like knowing how to tie a shoelace, exccept for a person of our age, it be like einstein shit, we'd be like wtf where is the red button lol i have faith in my sons sons. they are gonna be smart ass motherfuckers
maidenkid84 1 year ago
i can't believe how we don't want this. Not worrying about money is so uplifting. Look who keeps coming up with new technologies. they only make it after they get all the money out of that tech. NASA is 100 years ahead of the technology we got now, y can't they put it to worldly use. even the military is ahead in technology by 50+ years look at the air force satellites that can look into ur house from space jeez wake up people
ghostrecon9200 2 years ago
@ghostrecon9200 : As long as food costs money, there will always be money. Only when there is some farmer out there that is willing to feed the world for no compensation, we will be caged to continue monetary values. Even if we automate the labor involved in creating the food, the designer, manufacturer and sellers will all want to be fed for their labor. A resource society is a lazy society, and laziness causes imbalance, imbalance causes greed.
sabriath 2 years ago
@sabriath
I don't know why you chose the farmer as your example, a farmer would probably have the most to gain from being freed from the need to work.
Your notion that "a resource society is a lazy society" is unfounded and illogical. I think it would be fair to say that the majority of people only work so that they can gain the resources needed for them to lead a happy life. If the need for work was removed, nothing would keep people from living a happy life.
MrAmericaPie 1 year ago
@MrAmericaPie : that was 2 months ago, I can't remember what was going through my mind at the time. I think I was trying to state that money circulates, and you can't block just 1 point in the cycle, the money will just divert around it. I have NO clue why I said the last part, sorry. The problem with working for resources is that the cost of the resource is far more than the income given for labor (most companies are on a 15% payroll)...that's BS to me.
sabriath 1 year ago
Geeeezzzz. This stuff went out in the 1960 as people realized this concept was just nonsense. We have many more people in the world now than the 1960s, a better life style and most that want jobs have them and work less physically, shorter hours and have more benefits.
Somebody needs to think a little more before making an ass of themsleves.
larryllix 2 years ago
Why is this message surpressed
npf2135 2 years ago
@npf2135
It is too cerebral for the masses.
kmarinas86 2 years ago
@kmarinas86 I was really hoping it wouldn't be, but when I show it to other people that I know they just generally don't get it, or refer back to a political paradigm which would be irrelevant in such a system.
Its so difficult to help someone realize they have been socialized in a certain way, and perhaps even, a way which is inherently against their well-being.
kuykee 1 year ago
@npf2135 This message is available to anybody that has a browser.
larryllix 2 years ago