Someone else commented on the idea of snaking it back and forth rather than using the T connectors, I think he is right in his thinking. the one I refered to in my previous post, also snaked the pipe rather than creating a manifold. I also wondered about flexible copper, could that make it a little easier for you, less connectors?
A few things. I saw one of these home made years ago when I lived in Virginia. They had two of these, I think about 3 ft square and it was 30 degrees out and it heated a 14X70 trailer extremely comfortably, plus created the hot water.
They put their copper tubes in trays made out of reflective rain gutter, painted the tubes black and then closed it over with a sealed tempered glass.
Water will always take the path of least resistance. By having all those T connections, the water will flow the shortest distance from inlet to outlet. meaning quite a bit of water will just sit in the pipe. If you snaked the pipe back and forth you will get hotter water and probably faster
The only problem I can see with using copper, is that every crack head in a 20 mile radius will be trying to steal the copper for thier next fix..haha actually, I'm not joking they have torn apart homes that were almost completed for the wire and pipes..
I have a question what if you got a few radiors like big ones with all the fins and paint them all a flat back and put glass over it and ise that has a watter heatter.
@mccunecp if you were not going to drink the water from the radiators then sure it would work, but you must remember, radiators have things in them that can kill you if you drink it, even if you think washing them out gets rid of the bad stuff you are wrong, it can still kill you.
@TheDudeRulez09 you could use a heat exchange if you want to heat drinking watter but if I was going to use radiors for drinking watter I get new ones that dont have you know antifrize and stuff used in them and I thing not sure but you can guy ones that are for drinking water but I like your build I have been thinking of building one my self for heat in my shed in the winter instead of using space heaters and use those only when needed....
@mccunecp I used to work in a factory that made radiators of all types and I warn you to please not use them new or used, they are ran through several chemical bonding processes that are toxic and will kill you! I agree though that using them as a heat transfer unit might work if they were sealed with something between the radiator and the water.
Tomcatwilson was very right your design would work much better if you zig zaged it like I did I get 150 to 175 on my first test I will post mine soon. I made mine with a glass front like a solar oven the inside is a sliver reflector and my copper is painted flat black. Copper is the best heat conducter until we can get pipes made from diamond dust.
By water going a longer distance you will get hotter water and it will not cool down as fast! Your entire unit will be 75% more efficient even with
@TireHome is yours inside a panel sealed? if so then this one wasnt!! this was just a manifold laying against a piece of corrugated metal, in the case it does 160 no problem, I have absolutely ZERO need for hotter.
yes its completely sealed and goes into a tank for later use! I working on some new ideas on my home do cut my bill in half all water that goes into my hot water heater will be go through this but i will have to drain it in winter months.
Just wondering if you experimented and took pop cans, cut holes thru them and then over the copper pipes. I have seen thermal heaters with pop cans and they seem to get a higher temperature. maybe try a smaller water heater with them and see if it works. Have been wanting to try it but will have to wait until i have extra cash.
@zeineguy no I haven't tried that, I am happy with the temperatures I am getting, I dont know of any human that can stand higher than 140 degrees on their skins so i think the design is good for now, unless you want to run a steam motor then of course its not hot enough but then you would want to use something like a parabolic solar collector or through collector.
I thank everyone for their advice on this prototype, but for the time being it is heating and working well, 140 degrees is nothing to scoff at!! I am working on more efficient designs and might do some videos on them at some point but I am so very busy with my cob home and other buildings at my place that I just dont have time right now.
Divide the diameter of the inlet header by the number of stacks and that's what the diameter of the input holes should be for the stacks. That will create resistance and continual flow through ALL stacks. Expect it to be hotter. ;)
@MX6Maximus You are correct about the resistance to creat even flow. The only problem is that would make the stacks 3/32" I don't even think they make rigid copper pipe that small. Just to have 1/2" stacks would take a 4" header. I do think they would have hotter water if they used 1/2" or even 1/4" stacks but it would still be unballanced. Still think your design is doing quite well but further north one would need more resistance to flow in order to create hotter water except in summer.
@caraleighjackson no no no, just the INPUT of the stacks need to be smaller, not the size of the stacks themselves, in fact, if the stacks were actually larger (more surface area) the output would be hotter, just limit the flow in so there is even distribution through each stack.
I didn't view your other vids yet,but I'm predicting that your black painted backplate will be better for the system. A reflector is only good if the rays of sun are reflected to the pipe in a good mannor, otherwise energy will be reflected back into space away from the collector. I guess it would help if more copper pipes in parallel, maby only 3 inches apart. I wonder if copper coated and painted black aluminum pipes are signifigantly cheaper than solid copper pipes.
@trailkeeper, this is right, I love this design and yes there is enough space in between each flow tube to add another, I m currently doing this now. I know aluminum is a bit cheaper than copper but copper hold to higher temps than alum. also I think its a better conductor.
@TheDudeRulez09 Right, copper is better. I think silver is even better than copper for conducting heat, but it's obviously out of the question due to it's price. Aluminum is often used for heat-sinks in electronics and radiators due to the workability and cheapness of it.
@TheDudeRulez09 Both have reasonably good heat transfer abilities. Both collect heat good, but aluminum I guess is a bit slower than copper at doing it. Your statement is a valid question that I'm sure everyone eventually asks. Alot of people still use aluminum cans to collect heat as in the solar air heaters. If I was to guess, an "aluminum system" needs to be about 20% bigger than a "copper system" (collector).
@trailkeeper Ok, maby a bit more than 20%, maby about 50%. I just looked at the thermal conductivity of copper and aluminum. Copper was basically a value of 401, and aluminum was like 230 or something. So aluminum conducts heat at only slightly more than half that as copper.
@TheDudeRulez09 First comes silver, then copper, then gold and then aluminum. I show a chart with the exact numbers in video 21 "solar heater idea" at my youtube channel. Copper conducts heat almost twice as good as aluminum.
Bad piping design. 2 problems : The header is the same size as the crossover pipes. Water takes the path of least resistance. The flow will not be balanced and the header is not big enough to handle all eight of the 3/4 cross over pipes. but I can appreciate your ingenuity and hard work.
This is so neat but how can i build something for camping ill be sucking from lake or water from a tank,i have a camper van and i may install on my utililty trailer for showers.
@kanatuna97 you can make a smaller one for your camper but a personal one for camping wouldn't be efficient, buying a solar shower ar any sports store runs around $8-$25 bucks and works well, but if you want a nice on demand propane heater that draws from a source and uses small camp stove propane cans I have some plans inspired by an outrageously priced version I will post soon.
I think the design is wrong with flow at 3/4 inch the water will not heat to high enough temp, I am sure it will assist but you should have used a ziz-zag pattern so water has a longer travel distance in the unit...Peace
it stays at a rough temp of 140 degrees, if you need hotter than that then I dont know what for, have you built one? if so then post some pics and let us see, too many people pop up and say shoulda this or that but never show what they did, seems funny to me.
You should have GREATLY reduced your costs and made it much more efficient, by going with a 60' roll of Type L. 3/4" ID . Copper tubing. It would have made your collector size more compact too. Im doing mine this way and ill post the results in this heading. Its going to be hooked up to a 40 gallon standard electric water heater and will be an open type system since i live in Florida.
I originally thought of doing that but I am not a fan of soft copper, I wanted a rigid and solid manifold and this works well for me, I am not telling anyone what they should use, but should a branch or something fall and hit the panel rigid pipe will hold up better.
Red pex does not absorb or hold heat, while it will stand up to the heat the sun puts out, Pex will break down in UV light this is why it is used underground and in walls, never exposed. If you are going to use a plastic I advise the black gardening type ABS, it is flexable and will stand up to UV rays and exposure. This heater I made will stand the test of time and gets hot and stays hot for hours after the sun goes down. It is well worth the price I payed, but I encourage everyone to try.
The exposed surface area is much greater with a 60' copper roll, its protected in a wooden box, and all overhanging tree branches should be cut down so as not to restrict sunlight to the collector in any case. Im not dropping a bomb on your design because im sure it works good for you ; just thinking of a more simplified / compact/ efficient way.
I already explained above , that Im going to start building mine very soon . Like I said, if it works for you then great . Did you examine all the possible ways of making the collector ?
TheDudeRulez09, The flow tubes you call them are refered to as risers in your system. I noticrd you use all 3/4 pipe. Have you tried using 3/4 pipe for the headers and 1/2 pipe for the risers. I think you would get better performance with that set-up. Also if you are able to put aluminum fins on the riser tubes, everything painted black would help you a lot.
You must get free copper tubing....i checked prices on this at home depot last week, and the fittings and stuff aren't cheap at all.....I have some 20' lengths of 1/4" stainless tubing, wonder if i can paint that black and use it in a coil formation....
@kchedville go with copper, home made the fittings. Dont buy rigid copper if you cant aford it just get the regular copper that comes in a roll, you will have to work with it to make it look need tho.
You can also solder copper strips on each side of the tubes to increase heat to the tubes.
19GN03 4 days ago
Someone else commented on the idea of snaking it back and forth rather than using the T connectors, I think he is right in his thinking. the one I refered to in my previous post, also snaked the pipe rather than creating a manifold. I also wondered about flexible copper, could that make it a little easier for you, less connectors?
rjkopp 1 week ago
A few things. I saw one of these home made years ago when I lived in Virginia. They had two of these, I think about 3 ft square and it was 30 degrees out and it heated a 14X70 trailer extremely comfortably, plus created the hot water.
They put their copper tubes in trays made out of reflective rain gutter, painted the tubes black and then closed it over with a sealed tempered glass.
rjkopp 1 week ago
Sounds like Kermit the frog!!!
TheDigitalDrummer 2 weeks ago
@TheDigitalDrummer sounds like David the stoned builder..... ;)
TheDudeRulez09 1 week ago
Excellent job......
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Rick007191 2 weeks ago
Also if you were to enclose your unit in an air tight container with a glass front and put it under a vacuum you would have less heat loss.
dendog21 5 months ago
Water will always take the path of least resistance. By having all those T connections, the water will flow the shortest distance from inlet to outlet. meaning quite a bit of water will just sit in the pipe. If you snaked the pipe back and forth you will get hotter water and probably faster
dendog21 5 months ago
The only problem I can see with using copper, is that every crack head in a 20 mile radius will be trying to steal the copper for thier next fix..haha actually, I'm not joking they have torn apart homes that were almost completed for the wire and pipes..
pvampire 5 months ago
I have a question what if you got a few radiors like big ones with all the fins and paint them all a flat back and put glass over it and ise that has a watter heatter.
mccunecp 6 months ago
@mccunecp if you were not going to drink the water from the radiators then sure it would work, but you must remember, radiators have things in them that can kill you if you drink it, even if you think washing them out gets rid of the bad stuff you are wrong, it can still kill you.
TheDudeRulez09 6 months ago
@TheDudeRulez09 you could use a heat exchange if you want to heat drinking watter but if I was going to use radiors for drinking watter I get new ones that dont have you know antifrize and stuff used in them and I thing not sure but you can guy ones that are for drinking water but I like your build I have been thinking of building one my self for heat in my shed in the winter instead of using space heaters and use those only when needed....
mccunecp 6 months ago
@mccunecp I used to work in a factory that made radiators of all types and I warn you to please not use them new or used, they are ran through several chemical bonding processes that are toxic and will kill you! I agree though that using them as a heat transfer unit might work if they were sealed with something between the radiator and the water.
TheDudeRulez09 6 months ago
good work.!
of course it would be better if you had welded, braised the joins instead of soldering them .
b262222 6 months ago
Nice.
MrInventWorld 6 months ago
how does that work?
xtazy1337 6 months ago
@xtazy1337 it works by magic and elves!!!!
TheDudeRulez09 6 months ago
@TheDudeRulez09 so they are real?
xtazy1337 6 months ago
@xtazy1337 nope!! they are figments of my imagination.......
TheDudeRulez09 6 months ago
Tomcatwilson was very right your design would work much better if you zig zaged it like I did I get 150 to 175 on my first test I will post mine soon. I made mine with a glass front like a solar oven the inside is a sliver reflector and my copper is painted flat black. Copper is the best heat conducter until we can get pipes made from diamond dust.
By water going a longer distance you will get hotter water and it will not cool down as fast! Your entire unit will be 75% more efficient even with
TireHome 8 months ago
@TireHome is yours inside a panel sealed? if so then this one wasnt!! this was just a manifold laying against a piece of corrugated metal, in the case it does 160 no problem, I have absolutely ZERO need for hotter.
TheDudeRulez09 7 months ago
@TheDudeRulez09
yes its completely sealed and goes into a tank for later use! I working on some new ideas on my home do cut my bill in half all water that goes into my hot water heater will be go through this but i will have to drain it in winter months.
TireHome 5 months ago
Why do you have your flow tubes so far apart?
lynxx55 8 months ago
@lynxx55 they dont get along very well...... :)
TheDudeRulez09 8 months ago
Just wondering if you experimented and took pop cans, cut holes thru them and then over the copper pipes. I have seen thermal heaters with pop cans and they seem to get a higher temperature. maybe try a smaller water heater with them and see if it works. Have been wanting to try it but will have to wait until i have extra cash.
zeineguy 1 year ago
@zeineguy no I haven't tried that, I am happy with the temperatures I am getting, I dont know of any human that can stand higher than 140 degrees on their skins so i think the design is good for now, unless you want to run a steam motor then of course its not hot enough but then you would want to use something like a parabolic solar collector or through collector.
TheDudeRulez09 1 year ago
@zeineguy be sure to psot video of your work!!
TheDudeRulez09 1 year ago
I thank everyone for their advice on this prototype, but for the time being it is heating and working well, 140 degrees is nothing to scoff at!! I am working on more efficient designs and might do some videos on them at some point but I am so very busy with my cob home and other buildings at my place that I just dont have time right now.
TheDudeRulez09 1 year ago
Divide the diameter of the inlet header by the number of stacks and that's what the diameter of the input holes should be for the stacks. That will create resistance and continual flow through ALL stacks. Expect it to be hotter. ;)
MX6Maximus 1 year ago
@MX6Maximus I mean AREA of the header :p
MX6Maximus 1 year ago
@MX6Maximus You are correct about the resistance to creat even flow. The only problem is that would make the stacks 3/32" I don't even think they make rigid copper pipe that small. Just to have 1/2" stacks would take a 4" header. I do think they would have hotter water if they used 1/2" or even 1/4" stacks but it would still be unballanced. Still think your design is doing quite well but further north one would need more resistance to flow in order to create hotter water except in summer.
caraleighjackson 1 year ago
@caraleighjackson no no no, just the INPUT of the stacks need to be smaller, not the size of the stacks themselves, in fact, if the stacks were actually larger (more surface area) the output would be hotter, just limit the flow in so there is even distribution through each stack.
MX6Maximus 1 year ago
I didn't view your other vids yet,but I'm predicting that your black painted backplate will be better for the system. A reflector is only good if the rays of sun are reflected to the pipe in a good mannor, otherwise energy will be reflected back into space away from the collector. I guess it would help if more copper pipes in parallel, maby only 3 inches apart. I wonder if copper coated and painted black aluminum pipes are signifigantly cheaper than solid copper pipes.
trailkeeper 1 year ago
@trailkeeper, this is right, I love this design and yes there is enough space in between each flow tube to add another, I m currently doing this now. I know aluminum is a bit cheaper than copper but copper hold to higher temps than alum. also I think its a better conductor.
TheDudeRulez09 1 year ago
@TheDudeRulez09 Right, copper is better. I think silver is even better than copper for conducting heat, but it's obviously out of the question due to it's price. Aluminum is often used for heat-sinks in electronics and radiators due to the workability and cheapness of it.
trailkeeper 1 year ago
@trailkeeper I thought aluminum was good for drawing heat away as copper was better for drawing heat in, I could be wrong.
TheDudeRulez09 1 year ago
@TheDudeRulez09 Both have reasonably good heat transfer abilities. Both collect heat good, but aluminum I guess is a bit slower than copper at doing it. Your statement is a valid question that I'm sure everyone eventually asks. Alot of people still use aluminum cans to collect heat as in the solar air heaters. If I was to guess, an "aluminum system" needs to be about 20% bigger than a "copper system" (collector).
trailkeeper 1 year ago
@trailkeeper Ok, maby a bit more than 20%, maby about 50%. I just looked at the thermal conductivity of copper and aluminum. Copper was basically a value of 401, and aluminum was like 230 or something. So aluminum conducts heat at only slightly more than half that as copper.
trailkeeper 1 year ago
@TheDudeRulez09 you are right
hansenqin333 1 year ago
@TheDudeRulez09 right
hansenqin333 1 year ago
@TheDudeRulez09 First comes silver, then copper, then gold and then aluminum. I show a chart with the exact numbers in video 21 "solar heater idea" at my youtube channel. Copper conducts heat almost twice as good as aluminum.
Peace, iT
insAneTunA 1 year ago
@trailkeeper you are right
hansenqin333 1 year ago
Bad piping design. 2 problems : The header is the same size as the crossover pipes. Water takes the path of least resistance. The flow will not be balanced and the header is not big enough to handle all eight of the 3/4 cross over pipes. but I can appreciate your ingenuity and hard work.
tomcatwilson 1 year ago
@tomcatwilson this bad design is cranking out a almost continual 140 degrees and works well.
TheDudeRulez09 1 year ago
This is so neat but how can i build something for camping ill be sucking from lake or water from a tank,i have a camper van and i may install on my utililty trailer for showers.
kanatuna97 2 years ago
@kanatuna97 you can make a smaller one for your camper but a personal one for camping wouldn't be efficient, buying a solar shower ar any sports store runs around $8-$25 bucks and works well, but if you want a nice on demand propane heater that draws from a source and uses small camp stove propane cans I have some plans inspired by an outrageously priced version I will post soon.
TheDudeRulez09 2 years ago
Thanks that would be awsome
kanatuna97 2 years ago
I think the design is wrong with flow at 3/4 inch the water will not heat to high enough temp, I am sure it will assist but you should have used a ziz-zag pattern so water has a longer travel distance in the unit...Peace
PhysicsGuerrilla 2 years ago
it stays at a rough temp of 140 degrees, if you need hotter than that then I dont know what for, have you built one? if so then post some pics and let us see, too many people pop up and say shoulda this or that but never show what they did, seems funny to me.
TheDudeRulez09 2 years ago
You should have GREATLY reduced your costs and made it much more efficient, by going with a 60' roll of Type L. 3/4" ID . Copper tubing. It would have made your collector size more compact too. Im doing mine this way and ill post the results in this heading. Its going to be hooked up to a 40 gallon standard electric water heater and will be an open type system since i live in Florida.
DaveTheyCallme 2 years ago
I originally thought of doing that but I am not a fan of soft copper, I wanted a rigid and solid manifold and this works well for me, I am not telling anyone what they should use, but should a branch or something fall and hit the panel rigid pipe will hold up better.
TheDudeRulez09 2 years ago
@TheDudeRulez09 it look sharp too
joerond 1 year ago
im thinking the red pex would be a lot cheaper and easyer
soggieshorts1 2 years ago
Red pex does not absorb or hold heat, while it will stand up to the heat the sun puts out, Pex will break down in UV light this is why it is used underground and in walls, never exposed. If you are going to use a plastic I advise the black gardening type ABS, it is flexable and will stand up to UV rays and exposure. This heater I made will stand the test of time and gets hot and stays hot for hours after the sun goes down. It is well worth the price I payed, but I encourage everyone to try.
TheDudeRulez09 2 years ago
The exposed surface area is much greater with a 60' copper roll, its protected in a wooden box, and all overhanging tree branches should be cut down so as not to restrict sunlight to the collector in any case. Im not dropping a bomb on your design because im sure it works good for you ; just thinking of a more simplified / compact/ efficient way.
DaveTheyCallme 2 years ago
wheres yours?
TheDudeRulez09 2 years ago
I already explained above , that Im going to start building mine very soon . Like I said, if it works for you then great . Did you examine all the possible ways of making the collector ?
DaveTheyCallme 2 years ago
TheDudeRulez09, The flow tubes you call them are refered to as risers in your system. I noticrd you use all 3/4 pipe. Have you tried using 3/4 pipe for the headers and 1/2 pipe for the risers. I think you would get better performance with that set-up. Also if you are able to put aluminum fins on the riser tubes, everything painted black would help you a lot.
gregwest77 2 years ago
@gregwest77 you are right about it
joerond 1 year ago
thas not bad price, I already got over $400 invested in putting together a 4x8ft solar soda can heater....thanks
kchedville 2 years ago
Yeah I really try my best to utilize as much recycled materials as possible, so for the most part the copper is all it cost me.
TheDudeRulez09 2 years ago
You must get free copper tubing....i checked prices on this at home depot last week, and the fittings and stuff aren't cheap at all.....I have some 20' lengths of 1/4" stainless tubing, wonder if i can paint that black and use it in a coil formation....
kchedville 2 years ago
all in all cash wise it cost me around $120 for the copper and that built 2 of these units.
TheDudeRulez09 2 years ago
@kchedville go with copper, home made the fittings. Dont buy rigid copper if you cant aford it just get the regular copper that comes in a roll, you will have to work with it to make it look need tho.
joerond 1 year ago
Good start. Lookin' for part two now.
KasinH 2 years ago