Ultralight Trike tumbling

[lexale77]

R.I.P.



[doggzilla1]

Its too bad people like this didnt just take the time and get a few hours of instruction in a cessna. In flight school, you learn a lot of things that most pilots take for granted, like slow flight. This is when you fly at stalling speed with the motor at full power and try to maintain altitude. Of course this is at like 3-4k feet, I dont know what this moron was thinking, that type of ultralight doesnt have ailerons, it cant roll unless its right side up.

[85Kubu]

@doggzilla1 you should first read than post, cause you might be suspect of being moron. Read 5th comment below.

[doggzilla1]

@85Kubu sorry, what I meant to say is that in flight school, you learn not to fly in conditions like that. Only a moron would fly in conditions that gusty. Even real planes avoid that.

[85Kubu]

@doggzilla1 It was during the airshow (Lima '95). Air have calmed down and conditions where good enough from the start till final approach (he wasn't rookie pilot, he was flight instructor and factory test pilot and he got permission from the tower).

[doggzilla1]

@85Kubu, the only moron instructor I know is also a test pilot for cirrus. The pilot really should have known better, Im only a private pilot and I know not to even taxi when winds have a chance of strong gusts, it can flip over even a real plane. Weight shifters like the one in this video are extremely unstable, he really should not have even considered flying it with a chance of gusts. I take back that he was a moron, he probably was just feeling pressure to please the crowd. 

[85Kubu]

@doggzilla1 Starting during that day was a mistake. I agree.

[OberonScott]

I've just started learning to fly trikes and this video worries me, the Weight-shift Control Flying Handbook says to avoid a tumble push the bar all the way out and apply full power to prevent the nose from dropping down into a tuck/tumble if you find yourself in a steep nose high attitude due to turbulance.

Could this accident have been caused by turbulence or was the pilot trying to loop?

If it was turbulance then i am very worried, If it was an attempted loop for the crowd then I'm good

[apollonorthamerica]

@OberonScott

Of course it was an attempted loop. If you find the full video of this. He did 5 loops before this and failed on the last one. Turbulence?? Where the heck do people come up with that. Turbulence would have to be EXTREME to do something like that to even a light trike.

[85Kubu]

@OberonScott Show me that video, I've been looking for other video of that accident for a long time and never found one.

About wind and turbulences I know from letter (sent day before accident) and eye wittnesses-colleagues of my stepfather. We are not 100% shure what happend. We suspect strong wind blast and very hard low back pain (which he suffered). We've never got any raport from any aviation safety authority.

[GeneticallySuperior1]

Terrible footage . I am truly sorry to family & friends of this pilot.

[85Kubu]

Yes He died after few days in hospital. It was my stepfather. It happend during landind after exhibition fligt at Lima '95 International Airshow on polish. That day wind and turbulances where really strong. For most of that day too strong. But when it became weaker my stepfather got permision to flight.

We suspect that during approach he encountered very strong wind blast.

It is certain that my stepfather did not want to do any aerobatics during that flight nor any other.

[85Kubu]

@85Kubu

*after exhibition fligt at Lima '95 International Airshow on polish ultralight trike

[MrBillLumberg]

did he died?

[cichy1970]

The pilot came from Poland. He became wounded heavily and died after several days in the hospital. There was severe turbulence in this day and the demonstration was dissuaded him and doing acrobatic tricks. He did not put the helmet, if he had him the most probably the fall survived.

[85Kubu]

@cichy1970

Yes he did not put the helemt on, but it is not certain that the helmet would prevent a tube from going through the skull causing brain injury. For sure helemt would have had influence, but was not obligatory for flight.

[Skymaxy]

During 40 years of Sport Flying I have seen preventable accidents happen too many times.

Even the death of a foolish young man is sad, Fortunately he did not crash into any spectators and kill them too.

[abidfarooqui1]

mryellow123: You are the dumbest tac in the draw for sure. What an idiotic comment. This particular pilot was obviously an idiot attempting a whip stall and paying in the resulting tumble.

[Doromir]

Anybody have more information? Why did this guy do this? Was he trying to commit suicide?

[mryellow123]

@Doromir He's trike pilot...... they aren't the sharpest tac in the draw.

[dizzylizzy6]

is he ok? im assuming hes not :/

[xlentertainment]

a falling object, that's what happens when doing crap like that.

[nctrooper10722001]

Again.. another fucking IDIOT pilot

[JRMAKOWSKI]

Does anyone know if he survived?

[Dazzleold55]

Sadly some pilots push these aircraft beyond its limits. Does it look like a red bull air race plane? NO! These machines are very safe as long as the pilot knows his limitations and that of the aircraft!

[airmanbooker]

@Dazzleold55 Indeed. A trike is not an F-22. It is designed for slow cruising (and soaring if it is light enough), not for acrobatics.  If a pilot wants to do acrobatics, then they should acquire a license to fly 3-axis Light Sport Aircraft.

[Dazzleold55]

@airmanbooker yes you are right. I fly both trikes and 3 axis aircraft. In Australia though we don't have an endorsment for acrobatics for recreational aircraft. We have to go General aviation private pilots licence before we can learn acrobatcs. Stages of licences are, recreational (trikes, 3 axis ect.), private and commercial. Thanks for responding.

[inagod]

when is it okay to do rolls in a trike,never

[banyani]

is this the same thing as an 'accelerated stall'??

[dangrunloh]

An accelerated stall is when you are pulling a G-load as in a steep turn or pull-up (like from a dive). A tumble may occur when the wing stalls at an unusual attitude and you are not pulling any G's.

[shfbdfi1273]

I'm not buying one.

[DrewDawg50]

how about not doing stupid shit when you're in the air.

[007wingman]

Hi, all flying wings are subject to critical speed " Tuck Under " . At certain speeds the lift : Center of Lift moves back along the cord line of the wing and makes the wing nose pitch down and tuck under with fatal results. A drag chute would be the only means to recover. Depending on Center of Gravity there will be a corresponding Tuck Under Speed for the wing ..... beware of that speed. 007 Wingman.

[Burn121212]

fuck that must to hurt

[pz0r56]

Whip StallTuckTumble

From the Weight-shift Control Flying Handbook: "A WSC aircraft can get to a high pitch attitude by flying outside the its limitations or flying in extreme/severe turbulence. If the wing gets to such a high pitch attitude and the AOA is high enough that the tips stall, a whip stall occurs."

The stall is recoverable until the point of tumble.

[truthseekers666]

Dont try aerobatics in a microlight full stop... if you do your pushing the line towards disaster IMHO. In 3 axis you can spin and recover. Microlight, forget it. Another good tip is if your going to dick around be at 3000+feet to try stuff... not this close to the ground. He was probably dead before hitting the ground from the bar hitting his chest anyhow. Its just not worth playing about with. Its your life. If you want thrills do a bungee or paracute jump.

[OzParkPilot]

what an idiot ! trikes and aeros just dont mix

[chalk246delta]

:0Holy Shit I Think Hes Dead Poke Him With A Stick Dude See If He Moves:)

[jebadi13]

: O

[s030141]

I hope its only microlights that do these type of stalls or whatever.

[evolution1088]

lol splat.....

[guily6669]

sry for the pilot, but he shouldn't have done that loop at that speed...

[TheVladomo]

what sorrofull event!

[lexale]

a volte mi domando: ma ci si fa o ci si è???

come si può pensare di fare un loop con un trike!!!!

[Pokedude11111]

Rule # 1 Never fly with out reserve . #2 ,Trikes are not made for aerobatics Dont let anyone fool ya. Some hang gliders (and hang gliders only) can do aerobatics. If it has a Motor and wheels on it , It was made to just fly around and do some nice bank turns and such. But Loops , stalls , spirals ..dont even try it, Dont even think it or you will end up like this guy . Tag on Toe dead. every time.

[VodkaFanClub]

Actually stalls and spirals are very possible, within the factory set maneuvering and weight limits. Altitude is always LIFE and of course, a high quality reserve system is never a drawback. Very sad event, but it was not far from success :(

[chantervz]

It looks like the wings folded right before it hit the ground. He was a deadman even if he had another 5 thousand feet.

[n49945]

BRS... invest in one

[Pokedude11111]

I dont think even a BRS would have help him. By the time he shot it it would have just  wound up with the wing , The only thing that could have saved him is altitude, and seperated completely from the wing. and pulled the harness reserve

[conexn]

I wonder was the last thing that went threw his head before he hit? I wonder if he has the guts to do that again?

Ouch... That really had to hurt... I hope this never happens to me when I fly my Weedhopper C, and the model this guy is flying is one of the safer models, making me wonder if I need a shrink to even risk flying in an ultralight at all.

You never know what can happen with your butt strapped into a kite. At least I have insurance and my wife has an insurance policy on me 1/2 mil

[Doromir]

@conexn It is not so much the ultralight that is dangerous. It's what he was trying to do with it that caused the problem. He was way too low and too slow for a loop. Don't try anything like that and you should be fine

[hidihogogo]

holy shit

[jcfdillon]

carbon fiber exists

[gileslover]

aua !

[jetmanflyhigh]

He was eating a Jello pop..while trying to text his mom,,,,

[n00ber420]

i wont be getting one of these then

[sasktank]

and I was thinking of buying one --- ???

[CHRISCOOL08]

it would be fun before you die :D

[jnjoblon]

They are pretty safe, just like any other aircraft, if you don't push the craft beyond it's structural limits you'll be fine.

[meggark]

This type of accident is very very rare, and normally caused by a pilot far exceeding the normal flight envolope and trying something silly like pulling a loop. With proper training and knowledge of what the aircraft is and isn't capable of, they are generally pretty safe.

[Paramart]

One of my frinds did the exact same thing. He sadly died rather instantly.

[freeflyva]

Sadly....that's called losing respect for an unforgiving sport. Folded like a cheap suit.

[Invalidstyrkan]

Holy crap, did he died!?

[alvesjiu]

foi de arrepiar, talvez um piloto com mais conhecimento poderia fazer bonito , vamos falar aproveitando " o " forte vento que veio de frente

[CommanderRickha]

I can see the downside in ultra lights

[MaartenSpoek]

Well, you should try to loop it.

[aerostick11]

hate to see this happen

[JetDriver1111]

once the tumble starts,it is very hard to get out of,if at all...too much momentum pushing it around...the guy's a jerk for even letting it happen....much less so close to the ground...if you are going to f-around, do it high up and with a ballistic chute...

[n49945]

This is why they invented the BRS... shit... I hope the pilot lived. I kept waiting to see a BRS chute fire off... damn.

[dajsinjo]

would it happen if he had a tail?

[meggark]

A tail isn't required on a tailless delta, it would completely pointless. An aircraft such as this makes use of what is called reflex, basically the trailing edge of the wing is deflected upwards to provide the force required to balance the aerodynamic pitching moment of the wing,

[dajsinjo]

ok, you pitch the wing, not the whole aircraft,

but I thought it wouldnt get into tumble if he had a tail

[meggark]

I'm not sure what you're point about ptiching the wing, not the aircraft is? In a tumble the whole aircraft sytem is rigid anyway, the basebar is locked against the front strut. The strength require to move it would be huge.

I think by adding a horizontal stabiliser the pitch stability of the aircraft would become excessive meaning it would requite a lot of strength to fly.

Have a read of Dr. G. Gratton's paper "The Tumble Mode - Where test pilots fear to tread" It makes interesting reading.

[dajsinjo]

not if you put tail on the trike

[jondeak]

did he die?

[ChokedOnABullet]

lol great comment

[BobHUK]

Yes he did. Apparently he would have survived if he had been wearing a crash helmet, but he wasn't.

[Delticola]

I went up in a two seat ultralight in about 1995. A few months later I visited the family, son and daughter in-law of the ultralight owner. When I drove up to their driveway a little voice told me she's going to tell me David's dad died in the ultralight. I said here's your stuff back that I borrowed sorry not to have returned it earlier. She said oh, that's ok, it's been so busy I forgot all about it. I said well what's been going on?.She said, "David's dad died in the ultralight."

[ChokedOnABullet]

You killed the father?!?!

[drifter503]

That sucks...

[ak47su1321]

fail...4*

[mpjswart]

trike cannot fly inverted, as you can see. Just in the apex of his undefined manouvre the kite went inverted.

[sromag]

He looked like he could have recovered that had he been high enough.

[mark675]

no he couldnt- he had no control what so ever.. he'd just of took longer to hit the ground!

[sromag]

hmmmm... not so sure... The centre of gravity on those is very low down. I agree that he had no control at all but I can't think of any aerodynamic reasons as to why the trike wouldn't have eventually stabilised -.... maybe if he'd kept it on full power so as to give the trike a constant push.. but even then, I don't know. It's not like a paper plane, microlights are really stable. It would surprise me if this sort of eventuality hadn't been considered in its original design.

[mark675]

i see where your coming from- i just think it gained way too much tumbling momentum to recover at all,

i cant see if the wing collapsed just before it hit the ground? it looks like it but it might just be the camera angle,

im not sure the wing would of held up to that tumbling anymore without something failing like a wire or tube or something

[tommytipitcup]

It's kind of a feature of tail less aircraft. It's a big problem with hang gliders.

It's a stable mode for them. Same with para gliders.

The very best pilots do it deliberately. Do a search for infinite tumble.

[FormerFF]

While it can happen to hang gliders, it is very rare. It mostly occurs when a very high performance hang glider is flown slowly through extremely strong thermic conditons, and then not often.

[meggark]

You'd have to be super human to have the strength required to recover a tumble. With high rotation rates of over 400 degress/sec it doesn't take long for the structure to break up. Once a tumble starts its self-sustaining.

[tommytipitcup]

Not on a para glider. They don't break when you do an infinite tumble.

You exit by stalling. I wont be trying it any time soon though myself.

It's impressive to watch though. There are a few infinite tumble videos on You Tube.

[meggark]

I didn't know that tumbles were an issue with paragliders in the same way they are with hang gliders and microlights. The loadings in a hang glider and much more so a microlight are huge during the tumble and are a big danger to the pilots life. I think it's worth pointing out that a stall which occurs at high alpha(resulting in a whipstall) is one of the main entry mechanisms for the tumble, and a second stall when the pilot attempts to recover is often even deeper, thus the result is a tumble.

[tommytipitcup]

They are not a problem as such. There are maybe a dozen people in the world who can get a para-glider to tumble like that in a stable mode.

I know a couple of people who have tumbled hang gliders though. Uncommon without doubt, but not that rare I think.

[NightShadow03]

hey thats Malaysian national TV. I wonder if this is footage of the Langkawi International Maritime Aerospace Show. could poster share with us the source of this video?

[southamericanrocker]

thumbles are not recoverable... think twice about trikes and or girocopters...

[kitepilot]

I have 1300 hours in trikes without a mishap. All aircraft have limitations a fool doesn't respect them. This guy was trying to loop it. I know guys that can do it but they are very experienced and know how to do it safely with the correct plane and setup. Think twice about makeing claims about something you don't know about.

Maybe you should just stay on the ground.

[friedolayz]

think twice about spelling

[nordistelillois]

It's only a model ... shhh (old movie reference )

[efesair]

i never understood why people do stupid things so close over ground...

[geohutchison]

owch, that had to hurt.

did it?

probably wouldnt have happened if it had a tail fin

[jerryh64]

Damm,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[uploader1010]

OMG was there someone in theere?

[archerrobinhood]

it looks like he stalled it..

[archerrobinhood]

what type of engines do these things use?

[meggark]

it varies between low powered two strokes on older, or very light machines up to 100HP 4 strokes such as the rotax 912S.

[themanyone]

A friend of mine bought one of these. The first time he broke his arm trying to get it out of the garage. When his arm finally healed up, he broke a few ribs trying to unload it from the pickup. Thankfully, he sold it soon after.

[Quake120]

He broke his arm trying to get it out of the garage and then broke his arm trying to unload it from a pickup? How is that possible? Was he drunk?

[kniffa]

dead

[3321MDZ]

My personal recommendation for this maneuver.

Minimum 1000ft AGL. BRS reserve chute. Life insurance paid and funeral arrangements made. Trikes have too much drag, the wings aren't designed to handle the G's. Go ahead try it, prove me wrong.

[buchel1]

BRS reserve chute, not applicable on type, entered loop far to slow, to low. It did not stall, it stopped flying! I think the damage was already done on the first invert fall.

10 000ft AGL would not have saved him.

Very sad,who do you blame, instructors perhaps??

[DiscoDeanDude]

Why has everyone always got to blame someone else. That's why we arn't alowed to do anything these days. Everyone scared of getting sued.

[buchel1]

NO!! Dude,are you telling me that people aren't allowed to do anything these days, well, this poor guy tried something to impress people, in an aircraft not designed for aerobatics. In my country, when you purchase an aerobatic aircraft, you have to be rated on the aircraft first, nevermind the intense aerobatic training, before you get another rating, to do aerobatics on your own. This manouvre he carried out was suicidal!! Unfortunately, its allowed!!!

[meggark]

a trike could handle the G from a loop no bother and it has been done succesfully, the trouble is u have to maintain +ve G. If you let the g loading approach 1 or below u risk tumbling which with rotation rates of over 400 deg/sec obviously results in an exceedingly large g loading and invariably results in structural failure. It is however thankfuly very rare, though I would not attempt a loop in my microlight. not a chance

[admiralnomad]

I wouldn't do that in an ultralight anyway. If you can't afford an sufficiently rated plane and the licence, don't do aerobatics. I hope he made it, but I have my doubts. Damn shame, but avoidable.

[islandmicrolightclub]

Ouch.

[sohappyIcouldshit]

shit happens

[TheRooster602]

Clip starts in a right bank; overbanked at :03, and then kept going until he was past 90' :07; flat inverted spin :08 -:10 completely stalled; his trike has to fall forward or back. It falls back, against the propthrust. Now the force is like a gymnast rotating on a high bar, around and around faster and faster. At :13 the centrifugal force of the trike mass rotating around the wing overloads the flying wires and the spars fold up like an umbrella.

[MarkandDaan]

O.O

[andrewnielsen]

The moral of the story is that it is dangerous to try and impress a crowd. I know its no comparison, the the only times I've crashed my 4 wheeler is when there is an audience - happens even thought I don't plan it. PPC is the way for me.

[19211926]

It's very sad is what it is.

[jhagen20042000]

NEVER STALL A WING ! looks like a hammer head manuever ...ouch...

[meggark]

a stall is not a big event in most aircraft, infact they can be fun. It is only a problem at low altitude, or exceedingly high alpha where a whip stall could easily occur resulting in a tumble such as this

[josephdupont]

So what was the guy doing to get into that situation? fooling around ? trying to loop. what?

[lamger]

i didn't think he was trying a loop. But it looks very strange.

[kitepilot]

He was trying a loop. Too low and not enough airspeed.

[patovio]

Responsabilidad. La debes tener para ser piloto de Trikes.

[jelqer]

Can trikes use a BRS?

[aviacionlight]

of course, any ultralight plane can carry on a BRS, even the General Aviation planes like the Cirrus sr-22 use BRS systems.

Bether have it and don´t use it....to have to use it and don´t have it.

[lamger]

yes, in germany is it for all ultralight planes prescribed.

[unluckyday94]

Ouch

[DennisMclain]

This is what is called being an idiot.

[brankog7]

is the pilot ok ?

[kitepilot]

If being dead is OK. Then he is fine.

[SNDNGRKLR]

this is the only thing that keeps me from acting a fool on my trike. They have limits do not try to exceed them. Otherwise fly em and love em!!

[jerbear54]

this is what happens when you have an audience. you take chances

[capchrls]

sobrevivio?