@mikefromwa Its a kind of brainwashing compared with a neurological condition. Thats why people from the same background become atheists, fundamentalists or normal believers. People with Parkinson often become very religous during the desease or loose their religion. It depends on their brain activity. You can force this neurological condition if you brainwash very young children. Than they become fanatic Nazis, Christians, Muslims or communists. Willing to die or to kill for their conviction.
@daswenzel: "Its a kind of brainwashing compared with a neurological condition."
Yes, but it's also a corrosive and inimical condition that retards the progress of culture and society. I doubt there's ever been a society that benefited from religion in the long run.
@mikefromwa I doubt it as well, because all big religions don´t like science, because they fear logic. If you are a logical person nowadays, knowing about cloning, test-tube fertilization, near-death experiences induced by certain activations of the brain, mars missions, cryonic technology and such things, you mostly have problems to believe in a talking snake, a woman which turned to salt because she turned her head or a creature which is not an alien or a plant with no earthly father.
@daswenzel: "all big religions don´t like science, because they fear logic"
Bingo. Yes, they fear logic and reason because their fairy tales are 100% incompatible with those things. The Noah's Ark story is a perfect example of an impossible "event" that is supposed to be true. Completely and utterly impossible even at a casual glance.
@mikefromwa So true! I don´t know how simple minded someons must be to believe that a pair of all insects on the planet were in this boat together with a pair of every bird species. And this for... how many days?
"@mikefromwa Apparently all you've taken is a casual glance Mike. "Noah's Ark:A Feasibility Study" is a very simple book for you to read to understand how it would be possible. Remember, you can't take God out of the equation, since it's His story.So with that, I believe that you'll find some interesting theories in there, along with proofs that it is in fact possible to have physically happened.No, not completely and utterly impossible. Implausible without studying? Perhaps, but not impossible.
@ZiggyzPaw: "Apparently all you've taken is a casual glance Mike"
LOLOLOLOL!!! You could NOT be more wrong.
"it is in fact possible to have physically happened"
No, it's not. Did all the animals in the world live within walking distance of the Ark? How was all the food and water stored? How did Noah know about koalas, since Australia hadn't been discovered yet?
I mean really, it's the most gigantic bullshit story ever written.
@ZiggyzPaw: Have you ever been to a zoo? See how big the zoo is? What percentage of the world's animals do you think were in that zoo? Do you think you could actually build a boat large enough to hold them all plus a year's worth of food and water?
Don't be a sap, the Noah's Ark story is so ridiculous that it's fucking embarrassing.
@mikefromwa Look at the wonder of Kana? We have here the son of god who is able to do wonders. And the best he could do is change water into wine during a wedding? Either this guy was an alcoholic and needed a drink or he had too much time on his hands. In these days people starved and suffered everywhere. But Jesus obviously had other plans for this day. The german church claim Kana as a symbol, like all parts of the bible they can´t sell anylonger as real stories. How convenient!
@daswenzel: Believers are dying off, no question. Religion is dying a slow death, fewer people buy into the god story each year and it's only a matter of time before it becomes embarrassing to admit that someone believes in an invisible, telepathic sky-daddy. It may not happen in my lifetime, but it's inevitable. We know longer believe in Thor, Ra, or Anubis, and all belief in god will eventually go the same way. It's a done deal.
@mikefromwa I don´t share your optimism. You will always have a few intelligent people who just ignore logic and who lead a huge herd of dumbasses who just believe without even asking. In Germany 67% of the "normal" people believe in god or something but only a few percent of the academics. The religous academics in natural science are even more rare. I wonder why, lol... Maybe its hard to believe in 6000 years old earth when your own experiment dates your fossile 50 000 years in the past.
@ZiggyzPaw: Have you ever been to a zoo? See how big the zoo is? What percentage of the world's animals do you think were in that zoo? Do you think you could actually build a boat large enough to hold them all plus a year's worth of food and water?
Don't be a sap, the Noah's Ark story is so ridiculous that it's fucking embarrassing.
...@lotaetasigma , ...3)Families hating you, He's saying here that in as much as the people hated Him when He came to earth, so too will even your family hate you when you say the same things, in preaching the gospel of Christ. 4) He's not a racist, but a) the Hebrews were God's chosen people, for whatever reason He had, and b) you have to remember that Jesus came to preach to the Jews. The message He brought, and subsequently died to complete, was for both Jews and Gentiles. I hope that helps
@lotaetasigma I'm just passing through, but I'll respond here in short. 1) In hating your family, He is speaking of the amount with which you must love Him and follow Him, perhaps even at the cost of having to put your family aside if they cause you to choose between them and Him.2)Plucking out your eyes and cutting off your hands were not literal, but figurative in saying that as bad as those things would be to do, sinning before a Holy God, and facing that punishment would be that much worse..
@YourDogIsDeadHAHA That's about the most ignorant statement I've ever heard! Context is everything! For instance, say my dog just died. So, who are you to laugh at my grieving?!?! If you stood before me and just said your name above, I'd lay you out! But of course, I would be wrong to do so, since the context in which you chose your name had nothing to do with my loss. Learn the context in which these things were said, and be as open as you claim we should be. We look at both sides, do you?!
@ZiggyzPaw No. There is no context in which slavery and the other things sam harris is talking about here are okay. I understand the concept of context. But it's not an automatic trump card to be played every time someone says something you don't like. Harris is not out of context at all in this video.
@YourDogIsDeadHAHA First of all, you're confusing slavery in the early Americas with bond servanthood in the bible. Agreed, slavery against one's will and for no benefit to the enslaved would be wrong. BUT, bond servanthood was completely different, as would slavery when ordered by God Himself. If you speak of God ordering enslavement, then you have to look forward to the benefit of that enslavement when measured to the glory and honor of God Himself, whether you like that or not, He's still God
@ZiggyzPaw Boy have you been brainwashed. You like slavery, go be a slave. Wait, what am I thinking, you ARE one, at least in the mind. Your argument rests on the assumption that this fictional god is actually real, and not just a justification for people who wanted to slave and control people, of which you are, in one form or another a victim. Please stop talking to me. I don't want to hear anything a person like you has to say about anything.
@YourDogIsDeadHAHA For these people god is real. Its like talking to a psychopath who hear voices in his head. For him they are as real as for you the computer you are sitting in front of. I am quite sure if somebody tells you its not a computer but a big cheese, you wouldn´t believe it either. The difference is: EVERYBODY can see and touch your computer and nobody has merely to believe in it.
@ZiggyzPaw Maybe it has always been there. Human spirit can only handle something with a beginning and an end. Everything apart this we can´t understand. If we come to the point, that we have an eternity behind us AND in front of us maybe with a spiritless universe, we are looking for an explanation which doesn´t blow our mind. And this is a supernatural and omnipotent equivalent to a human. Our father in heaven who has always been there and built the universe and the earth for his children.
@daswenzel But the mere fact, that our human mind is not able to accept a "soulless universe", doesn´t proof that there is a god. Maybe in a 1000 years our brain evolved to a point, where all this things are completely logical. Like people from 1000 years ago would went crazy if they had seen our technology from today.
@daswenzel remember, people from1000 years ago were not remise of the intellect to understand, just the information to understand.In other words, they were just as able to understand things, if those things had been derived from their culture.If you take something from today's technology, an Ipod for example, and show it to my father, he would not comprehend it until he was taught how it worked internally.Yet he was a college graduate, and very smart. He won't go crazy, just yearn to understand.
@daswenzel and, I can accept a 'soulless' universe, as long as that is proven to be the case. Our search is for truth, not to win or create a universe to fit us. If you can disprove the things I hold to be truth, then I will change. Until then, I stand on what I know to be true. And no, truth is not relative nor subjective. Facts may be, since they can change, and beliefs are. You choose what you believe in, and I choose what I believe in. Still, Truth is Truth.
@daswenzel It can't have always been there. Study actual and potential infinites. You can't start at where we are, and look infinitely into the past and call it infinity, or always having been there. Time doesn't travel in reverse. You would have to start in the past and move forward, as time does. With that, matter could not have always been there, and thus, had to have a beginning, some time, some how. So, how did that matter come to be, now that we know that it could not have always been?
@YourDogIsDeadHAHA Like I said, you don't understand the terms, and yes, I am a slave to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I have to agree with you on that one. It's funny how you can accept the historicity of other historical figures, based on the accepted proofs found in writings of first hand accounts, but when it comes to those writings gathered and printed in what we call the Bible, you totally dismiss it all.Why do you think that is? You use a different set of rules for what you want to be.
Now why do you assume that I accept the historicity of other historical figures automatically? I don't accept ANY historical document dogmatically and believe it without flaw. I examine evidence and realize that even with the best information available, there are bound to be flaws here and there. What throws up a red flag for me is when people make outlandish supernatural claims i.e. raising the dead. You don't see the difference???
@YourDogIsDeadHAHA Oh sure, I see the difference. But, first of all, you do accept claims without researching them first. Do you believe that we landed men on the moon? Have you researched that, or do you just believe what you hear on the news? Trust me, the news is ALWAYS at least a bit wrong, more often very much wrong, and that's from personal experience. As for raising the dead, that's the whole point, He was God. Rising from the dead and raising from the dead are proofs of that.
@ZiggyzPaw If god wants us all to believe in him and live our lives according to his will, why doesn´t he book 10 minutes on the evening news? One huge wonder all over the world and well all would live in peace and the love of god and the world would be paradise and everybody would go to heaven. But now.. some bad decisions in a few years a human live lasts or you were born in the wrong country or to the wrong sexualtiy, and you are thrown into the fires of hell for the rest of eternity.
@ZiggyzPaw and like I said, we're done talking. Please leave me alone. I have no interest in what a self-admitted psychological slave to mythology thinks about anything. Take your bronze-age bullshit and do with it what you like, just leave me out of it. I am not and will never be a member of your zombie Jesus cult. And if heaven is entirely populated by characters such as you, I will take my chances in hell. Please never contact me again for any reason.
@YourDogIsDeadHAHA Well spoken! Maybe hell has only bad marketing issues. Imagine sitting on a cloud and playing the lute for the next few billion years. And this is supposed to be paradise?
@YourDogIsDeadHAHA Yeah, he is. No, it is not to be used as an automatic trump card. But at the same time, you can't dismiss the fact that if Sam is using the Americas' form of slavery in comparison to a blanket of all slavery mentioned in the bible, then he is taking, at least in some part, the term 'slavery' and those applied verses out of context. You can't call all slavery bad, because bond servanthood was a good thing for those in it. It supplied for their families when there was no work.
@ZiggyzPaw As long as you reply to me, I will reply to your post, sorry. I'm not only replying to you, but to anyone who happens across these posts. Are you delusional? Do you really think this is your personal retort page, where you spout off but the other person will just not respond to you because you say not to!?? Really!?! Good luck with that! If you don't want to hear me respond, then don't post to me! Plain, simple, done.But until that time, you have yet to support any of your claims.
@gspaulsson enlightenment thinkers examined the rational basis of all beliefs and in the process rejected the authority of church and state." aude sapere"(dare to think) Immanuel Kant.
This is the most worrying and dangerous thing about religion for me. Most of the religious are harmless, good-natured people (very specific choice of word there) but they legitimise the horrendous acts of violence, cruelty and oppression going on all over the world. If you disagree with slavery, child rape, and murder, you should leave religion. There ARE good things about religion but they are not intrinsic to it, they are brought by good people like you who are trapped in a church of hate.
@Libervurto By picking and choosing from the bible you are already being a bad christian. But that doesn't matter, the church doesn't care about your opinion, it doesn't even care if you really believe. All that matters is that you say you believe. The church only cares about numbers, it only cares about power and money. When you say you're christian on the census you raise the percentage of christians in the population, allowing the church to build more churches and collect more money, tax free
@Libervurto But you'll get paid back right? Of course you will. Every week your local preacher tells you that you'll be paid back, but he can't pay you right now and he'll get back to you on that. He says he has a powerful friend who will reward you, but not yet, you have to wait a while, but after you're dead you can go see him. Just tell him I sent you and he'll give you anything you want, honest.
If this doesn't sound like a con, I don't know what does.
@Libervurto Hey Bud, I have to agree with you about the church today. You are not off track on that. But please try to understand that this religious church that you speak of is not the same church spoken of in the bible. There are those of us who ARE born again, and who do look at all sides of topics being discussed. we understand that giving is between you and God, and that He will reward you for that. But don't think that we have any other agenda than bringing Truth to light, in order to...
@ZiggyzPaw ...cont'd. share what God's shown us. We're no better than you, just enlightened. That's not to say smarter, just that we've had revelation from God. The same God y'all say does not exist. The bible's church does not just believe that He is, and that Jesus was God in flesh, we KNOW that this is the truth. I can't prove it to you, nor can I show you. All I can do is try to explain the apparent contradictions you find within the scriptures and within the false church. Good observations.
@ZiggyzPaw You can not prove and you can not show, how on earth can you KNOW? Did God spoke to you in person? For people who know things nobody else can see there is a special expression which I don´t want to write here. If somebody says he knows he is the incarnation of Napoleon, he is send in the mental home though nobody can prove the opposite. If somebody says, I know a creator exists therefore they should teach it in school, he becomes president. At least in the USA.
@daswenzel Can you please respond in English. I can't understand half of what you're saying!! As for the first part, yes, He did, in a manner, speak to me. It's more like He revealed Himself to me, but none the less, this will mean nothing to you, I agree, unless you knew me. I can't go into all of the logical proof here, nor will I, but if 'beyond a reasonable doubt' works in our highest court system, it should work here, too. At least until He reveals Himself to you, also. I'm just sayin'....
@ZiggyzPaw YYou are right this means nothing to me, because when you go in a mad house you have a lot of similar experiences. In your case God revealed himself, in others Allah, voices in the head, the Devil or Santa Claus. I saw schizophrenic patients, who were willing to die for their belief that they are the savior. Strangely, after the treatment, they changed their mind completely But this will mean nothing to you, because you live in another dimension.
@daswenzel You've said a lot here. FIrst, the difference in these religions is that they can not back up their holy scriptures. Their books do not hold up to scrutiny. And I don't expect you to believe me on my word that I heard from God. There are a majority of professing Christians who have not heard from God, but have chosen that religion to follow. There is a difference. Why is my, and others', conversion different? Because it holds up to scripture. Why is scripture reliable? Because...
@daswenzel ...because it check out across so many fields; historically, psychologically, logically, scientifically, etc. Yes, I said scientifically. Unless you study these areas from a reliable source, then you will not see that.Even if you do, you may still not accept that. As I and many others understand, you will not accept it, not fully understand it, until the Holy Spirit reveals it to you.And that's fine. But for now, there's plenty of evidence to validify this collection of holy writings.
@ZiggyzPaw "As I and many others understand, you will not accept it, not fully understand it, until the Holy Spirit reveals it to you" Okay, friend, I think I understand. And regarding your evidence. In europe (I am from Germany) no unreligious scientist seriously trys to disprove the stories of the bible compared to normal history or biology, because its beneath them. In europe only journalists are doing such things in TV documentations,
@ZiggyzPaw When they take a closer look in the validity of the bible they get the same amount of documented proof as in the greek legends, the old scandinavian stories, the german Nibelungen-legends and so on. Some historical accordance and a lot of old wives tales. And sorry for my englisch, but my first language is german and my second is french.
@daswenzel You're kidding, right? So, because it's Germany, what happens there is truth? Or, is it because you've read so many of the nonreligious scientist that you know what they all say?Or, is it that you've at least studied the biblical documents against the greek legends, scandinavian lore, and so on?You see, you're believing what you're told without any personal experience to back that up, nor any in depth study of what you're quoting to be true. Yet I continue to talk to you, why is that?
@daswenzel That's kind of ignorant of you, don't you think? Do you know the reasons I think what I think? All of them? Have you given me any , ANY reasons to think otherwise, besides your opinions? You have plenty of those, but you fail to provide any undeniable proof to substantiate what you claim to be true about what I believe to be true. Good job, Doc.
@ZiggyzPaw Do you now in detail how the cloning of a mammal works? I tell you that today there would be no scientific problem to create a human being in a tube, with no human man involved. I have a phd in molecular genetics and I am working for a company named Bio-rad laboratories. Give me the proper instruments and I could do it. And to go even further, me and my collegues are pretty sure, someone already did it. And now you come with your talking snake and your old book. Ridiculous!
@daswenzel You can't create anything.You can recreate using pre-existant material, but to create, you would have to start with nothing.That's called a God Complex.You think you're creating, but you are not.I have no doubt, by the way, that you can make, or recreate, or clone as you say, a human being without using human hands.Robotics are great!But you still have to program those robotics, and have a human from which to get your DNA in the first place.So that being said, your point is....what?
@ZiggyzPaw That I can "recreate"a human being with no human father. So maybe this part of the bible is true and the arcangle Gabriel was a time traveller with genetical skills? Just prove me the opposite... I bet that you shake your head now about this stupid argument because for you the mere idea is stupid though you will never be able to prove me wrong. Than maybe you understand how I feel when I read your arguments.
@ZiggyzPaw In my commentary below I was referring to your former president Bush, who wants creation as a school subject although there is not a single evidence for this theorie. But if someone says he is the incarnation of Napoleon, people say he is mental. Even nobody can prove that he is not Napoleon. And never mind if you only understand half what I am saying. I don´t understand anything you say... even if I can read english very good.
@daswenzel Aaaah, so you're from another country. Where are you from?! Oh, and it's 'very well' not 'very good'. Anyway, You see, here's the thing. Yes, we'd say he's mental because we can prove otherwise. With Jesus, we can prove from the writings that He said that He was God. By the other aspects of what is written, we can also say that he was either deceptive, God as He said, or he was as you say, mental. Weighing all that is recorded, we're left with He was God. Just study this a little.
@TheHigherVoltage The Bible also speaks of the Holy Spirit being "fire", which again speaks to the ancient literary style...and the impossibility of explaining everything in human language.
now, just because Hell may not be real fire does not mean it won't be bad. It'll be worse!
Again, tough to imagine the complete lack of ALL goodness. In other words: even burning in fire you may still be able to recall fond memories of family, etc. Not in Hell. No such goodness will be there.
@TheHigherVoltage The "justice" in Hell as God's judgement is that God is giving people what they WANT: an existence without Him. Absence of God is torment because everything good that is experienced by anyone is a grace afforded by God, which we should be humbly thankful for. Nobody can imagine how "bad" the absence of "good" is. Nobody can explain it either, which is why most scholars, understanding the imagery used ancient mid-east literature, see the "fire" of Hell as metophorical
a message to the believer.....please WAKE UP!!!! gods existence is good argument,and in an unlimited universe,even plausable.but to believe what acient men wrote thousands of years ago is stupidy and gullability at the highest level.there are no words in the english language to describe how stupid i find religious believe,none at all.
@reeceyhiggs Higgy, What if an oral tradition of thousands of years passed down 'stories' to a point where they were written down. Then those writings were hidden, yet the oral tradition lived on. Then those 'stories' were written down again at a later time to continue being written until today. What if those writings we have today were verified by writings from very near, historically speaking, to some of the actual events. Would you say that those original oral traditions were viable? I would.
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There is no contradiction in the Bible; Jesus loves you so, God is love and God is justice and God will not tolerate sin in Heaven. Someone who clings to their sin will not enter Heaven where everything is purity. You opinion don't change what is true! Do you thoughts make it so that God diseapears? Can, through your human power make the Eternal God vanish? Just because you don't understand the bible and read it without praying first mean that it is not God's Word? No Bible-tube(doc)com
@fabienmaga Hilarious...so the bible only makes sense if you pray before you read it? Oooooooohhhh.....So god is love and justice? is that why he murdered so many people and called for the murder of many more? And it's okay to rape people because god said it was okay. And if you think either of these things aren't true it means you haven't read the bible. evilbible(dot)com
@fabienmaga ::: No contradiction??? Bart Ehrman wrote a 280 page book titled "Jesus, Interrupted" about contradictions in the bible. The bible is a quagmire of truth and error and must be 'rightly divided'. God is perfect and does not exhibit human failures such as wrath, jealousy, or hatred; not does He send his children to be tortured forever. We need to understand the bible in a more rational way.
@k0smon How is this possible, if the bible is gods word? Errors and truth must be rightly divided? Why? How can something directly from god be wrong? So this Bart Ehrman is prophet himself that he knows which are the true words of god and which are only from men? Maybe the guy who describes Jesus as a slave torturer is right? It is in the bible isn´t it? Like Noahs boat, mary´s virginity birth, lots wife in salt, walking on water and coming back from the dead.
@daswenzel ::: We have His creation to study. "what does the lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God" It is so very simple it does not require a book. We already know how to live and relate to each other, Dale Carnegie had that figured out. Wayne Dyer can tell you about spirituality. Practice the presence of God thru meditation and prayer. I use a book called OAHSPE to tell me about God. The afterlife? "Life in the World Unseen" free dwnld.
@k0smon I understand. You have nothing but your personal belief. Like the belief in horoscopes, ghosts, aliens and communicating pineapples. They all tell the same stuff. And they are all sure, they are right. What I don´t get is the fact that you are so arrogant to think, that such powerfull beeing like "god" which exists according to all religous scientests apart all universal laws, care about a little speck like you, in the eternal range of time and space? Wait-you don´t think-you believe..
@k0smon And if you believe with such a deep trust, you must have some neurobiological issues. Like the people who let bombs explode on a market place, to go to paradise with 77 virgins. Your brains work all in a similar way. I bet you are 100% sure that such a fellow goes to hell and he is 100% sure, that you go to hell. I am 100% sure that you both, won´t go anywhere after your death. You will be just dead after a wasted life. We will find out eventually... or more likely...not....
@daswenzel Well said my friend, i came onto the internet to get perspective with regards to the truth, however theres so much rhetoric to wade through, the best i can conclude is to try and enjoy every second afforded to me, and i sincerely wish you the same old bean.
@k0smon Hi Dude! Hey, you're missing something, though. I've only read a couple of your posts, but it seems that you're leaving out logic. Please don't get mad. For instance, in Islam, you get 77 (72) virgins.Okay, after you have them, what have you got for the rest of eternity?Also, it doesn't say whether they're male or female! I think that we would have to look at the holy writings and determine what holds up to scrutiny and logic and what does not. Just making up what you believe won't work.
@daswenzel What will heaven be like? Or paradise? Christian or Islam? Christian Paradise is to be in the presence of God with Jesus in spirit form, praising and glorifying God. Heaven will be a bodily existence, yet in a glorified body, on a new earth, again, glorifying and honoring God. To understand that, you would have to understand the purpose of God Himself. As for Islam, there is nothing after death for them because their religion is a false religion, and does not stand up to scrutiny.
@ZiggyzPaw You really suprise me. Sometimes you debate so clear and logic and the next minute you sound like the worst fanatic I ever had to deal with. "Christian Paradise is to be in the presence of God with Jesus in spirit form, praising and glorifying God." And this forever? No thanks, than I prefer to stop existing. And the most disturbing fact: I had the same discussion with a muslim, he told me excactly the same. I am sure if I start with a jew I hear the 3rd version of the same story.
@ZiggyzPaw ::: Not sure what your point is. What makes you think the 'holy writings' are correct? I don't think they are any more holy than any other book. You judge by their content. You believe it, if its truth is self evident or it agrees with that which you already know is true.
You might get enlightenment from Bart Ehrman's book "Jesus, Interrupted". He talks about the Liar Lunatic or Lord argument, adding his own: Legend. He says Jesus never claimed to be divine.
@k0smon Bart Ehrman!? You have got to be kidding. Not someone you would want to follow, as he turns on a dime. Regardless, legend would mean that Jesus would not have existed except in lore, yet he then says that Jesus never claimed to be divine. Well, okay, then He existed. We can't ignore that fact. His claiming to be divine would, on the surface, tend to point to the verse where He says,"Unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins" John8:24. The word "he" is not in the original..
@k0smon ...cont'd but is inferred. This being said, He(Jesus) was equating Himself with God, and in doing such claimed Deity. THus the reason for the Pharisees wanting Him killed. As to why the book is more holy, well, it either is holy or it is not. If it does not hold up to scrutiny, then it is false, and thus not holy. We're talking verifiable things like places mentioned, science mentioned, etc. Some things are time relevant, some are not. Some things are literal, some are not.
@ZiggyzPaw "Some things are time relevant, some are not. Some things are literal, some are not." This interesting... Who makes the determination? Because in the past you were burned alive if you didn´t take the bible word for word and you surely went directly to hell.
@ZiggyzPaw Maybe in 100 years even your church (whatever your church is) says that a huge part of the bible is not literal but symbolic and nobody goes to hell because this is only a synonym for something. Than you will look like the witchhunters from the 16th century. Ancient!
@k0smon So now, we take only the parts of the bible as gods words, which don´t sound completely irrational in our times. How convenient. It would be funny if not all over the world people were killed in the name of gods (no one ever found a single evidence which one can understand without the necessity to believe). From people who "know" the truth for sure. If there is a god, it must be really a cruel and remorseless beeing.
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You are assuming that the Old Testament is like today's world! The government was a theocracy! Meaning God was the king and the ruler! There was no king! When Israel chose to have kings the morality went down! If the evildoer is not punished, then 'man's heart is fully set on doing evil' 1) homosexuals are an abomination to God and can repent and be saved like any other sin 2) Israel went to war and the loosers could be slaves, instead of putting them in jail like today! Bible-tube(dot)com
Christian kindness does not equal secular happiness. Christian happiness depends on Christians being superior to others and for non-Christians to be punished beyond any human concept of sadism.
Can you imagine Christian happiness being the same if they were taught that atheists and Christians both live forever in a blissful afterlife? No. It is only blissful for the Christians when they are right and everyone else is horribly wrong.
@rcguy69No,if we all lived in a blissfull afterlife, that would be great!What world are you living in where those who care enough to share and try to explain what they know are happy about you suffering?That's the last thing we want!That's why we try to reason things out with you.Also, know that not everyone who takes the Christian side is a true Christian."You'll know them by their love for one another."We care.We may be sarcastic at times, but hey, we still care.Doesn't mean we can't have fun.
Dawkins has claimed, “As for religion … nobody wields a sharper bayonet than Sam Harris.” Harris debated Craig on 7th April. In his opening statement in that debate, Harris declared that Dr Craig is “the one Christian apologist who seems to have put the fear of God into many of my fellow atheists.” After that debate, the atheist website Debunking Christianity reported: “Bill (Craig) has once again showed himself as the best debater of this generation.” ROFL
The audacity of us human beings to even try to discern the existence of a GOD is extremely arrogant, since we do not have the mental intellect or capacity to do so in the first place.....so keep contemplating nonsensical conjectural debate with more and more non-provable rhetoric!
22 If you were a slave when the Lord chose you, you are now free in the Lord. You belong to the Lord. In the same way, if you were free when you were chosen, you are now Christ’s slave. 23 God paid a high price for you, so don’t be slaves to anyone else. 24 Brothers and sisters, in your new life with God, each one of you should continue the way you were when God chose you....the NT teaches that we should NOT be slaves except to Christ, figuratively.
Do people realize there are LOTS AND LOTS of forms of slavery, but the kind mentioned here is of the Bible, and is not half of what you might think it to be.
I don't see many repo-man protesters, or human rights advocates going after LEGAL foreign (poor people) dating services.
No... I do not like the idea that there are people that are that poor and destitute.
@LampPlaceThing The distance you are willing to travel around the point, and the energy you are willing to put forth to try to somehow justify these atrocious beliefs is appalling. Just imagine if you spent that much effort on contributing to science research, or even defeating things like slavery that still exists today... :(
@pianomatteo It's debtors... It's different. People soled THEMSELVES into slavery.
If only people like you petitioned the U.N. against minimum wage, and repo men... in fact there should be a "year of jubilee" where all domestic (within your own allied family) debt is forgotten.
Leviticus 23: 53 "Like a man hired year by year he shall be with him; he shall not rule over him with severity in your sight." Oh that sounds harsh!
@pianomatteo Oh by the way how much is the richest man in the world ..."worth?"
Oh I am considering a human being as something with a price tag, how awful of me (I am being sarcastic and not clear in the understanding of "worth" to demonstrate a point).
Speaking as an atheist I have to say the problem with Sam Harris is that when questioned on his Buddhist meditation he refuses to denounce the Buddhist idea of reincarnation and the fact that the Dali Lama wants to establish a Theocracy in Tibet.
Yes, the Bible does say those things Sam pointed out. But the reason it is so extreme is made clearer when you understand the reasons why God did those things and who He is. No, its not because He's malicious or sadistic, they are commanded because they highlight the seriousness of sin. As hard as it is to comprehend how a loving God can order murder, it's because sin against God is MORE wrong!
@Nucourier Are you saying that stoning sassy children "highlights the seriousness of sin"?
If God is omnipotent, then he could achieve any end by any means. He could do it with or without suffering, which means suffering is unnecessary. If an omnipotent god exists, it chose to cause unecessary suffering. That is malicious and sadistic. Commanding someone to cause unnecessary suffering is also malicious and sadistic.
@Nucourier Is this irony or do you really mean it? It the same thing, what happend when one insulted Hitler. If you insulted your father you got a clap on the cheek, if you insulted Hitler you were hanged. Now, this explains a lot...
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Dt 15.15-18
"12If a fellow Hebrew, a man or a woman, sells himself to you and serves you six years, in the seventh year you must let him go free." 16 "But if your servant says to you, “I do not want to leave you,” because he loves you and your family and is well off with you, 17then take an awl and push it through his ear lobe into the door, and he will become your servant for life."
The servant WANTED to stay a slave. In fact just go read that entire page!
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@gekritzl Hey man, I suggest you direct me to a place filled with pro-humanrights activists going against the selling of Chinese brides... you won't find any. There is a very clear indication that the human rights activists do not care.
UNLESS you are talking about kids in perverted slave trade or various crap the bible has no affiliation with, then I have nothing more to say to your sick concept of Judaeo-Christian beliefs.
@LampPlaceThing - "why the word EXPECT?" - Because, if you would read your bible, "God" not only supports slavery, but legislates it; and Jesus never admonishes slave owners. Jesus even tells them how severely to whip them!
@LampPlaceThing - 1. THE WHOLE THING. Nowhere does the Bible, or Jesus, condemn slavery.
2. God legislates slavery. Ex 21.7 teaches how to sell your daughter into slavery, for example. Dt 15.15-18 says to nail your slaves to your door by their ears.
3. Jesus approves of slavery: 1 Tim 6.1, Titus 2.9-10, Eph 6.5-6, 1 Peter 2.18.
4. Jesus advises savage whipping of disobedient "servants" - but you don't have to beat obedient slaves quite as savagely. (Luke 12.46-8)
In Luke 12.46-8 Talks about a master (Jesus/God) and the master puts a servant in charge when he is gone. "suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the menservants and maidservants and to eat and drink and get drunk." Surely the servant will be punished for beating the menservants and maidservants.
The story is about the end of the age.. " the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."
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@gekritzl 1 Tim 6.1 "consider their masters worthy of full RESPECT" further more the passage mentioned "God's name and our teaching may not be slandered." which is much different than the muslims in Islam. Have you noticed the bad name Islam gets? when you see violent chaos in front of the embassies in egypt, do you not get a little agitated at that mentality?
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@gekritzl Ex 21.7 was about a man selling his daughter as a inferior wife, or concubine. Like if you go to certain places in China, there are poor women you can marry... yeah I know that sounds messed up, but what should I say to the very poor? do not sell, live in poverty/destitute?
If you read on "If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her." there are rules.
@gekritzl Good job on reminding me of "sell your daughter into slavery" which is sick.
However, I would slap you on your account of answering my question: where does God "EXPECT" slavery?, and you answere: "THE WHOLE THING." You have been proven wrong there.
@LampPlaceThing - No, I haven't been proven wrong by any means. Think about it, please: If God is a good god, and if Jesus is a good messiah, then they both would have admonished people for selling human beings. The opposite is true, and it's just like Dr. Harris said -- people are EXPECTED to keep slaves. The bible treats it like any other thing, never questioning its morality. Sick.
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@gekritzl So using that same train of thought, God EXPECTS murder, and god EXPECTS Idolatry, and God EXPECTS stealing, and God EXPECTS Lying, and God EXPECTS cheating, and God EXPECTS... etc.
Perhaps I should have clarified why I find the word inappropriate: God does not consider it as a good thing, so why place the word "expect" to that point in the bible?
@LampPlaceThing - God does not consider it as a good thing? Why does he legislate it? Why does he NOT command AGAINST it? Shouldn't one of the 10 commandments have been "Thou shalt not sell or buy fellow humans" instead of the petty, jealous, pious ones (e.g. no other gods before me)?
And you are right, God expects murder and rape -- he even commands it. But he admonishes idoltry (which is stupid because it's a victimless crime; it's not even a valid law in the US).
@LampPlaceThing - Divorce? You're changing the subject. Ask yourself why God NEVER advises against selling and buying human beings. It's absolutely, as Dr. Harris points out, expected: like buying a donkey or selling a camel. He describes how to legally sell your daughter into slavery. And he tells the Hebrews to kill ALL enemies, except virgin girls, which the Hebrews can keep for themselves.
How can you, in good conscious, defend such an evil book, the Bible?
Bc God is wise enough to admonish against the root of evil which is idolatry. Further He doesnt command rape and murder. But I will command that you cease with the bald assertions and start forming a rational argument.
To mitigate the damages. God doesnt attack all the sin of His people at all times. Slavery isnt in itself wrong. It is the abusive tendencies and lack of love of humans that makes it wrong. Some slaves wanted to be slaves.
@j919or - "To mitigate the damages" - Why don't both God and Jesus EVER say slavery is wrong? They totally support it. "Slavery isnt in itself wrong" - Why does Jesus say to whip slaves, and why does God say to nail your slaves' ear to the door? You can't tell me these practices aren't WRONG.
@gekritzl actually Slavery as we understand it was punishable by death. yes that is an old testament law. The kind of slavery being addressed is more like being an indentured servant.
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It is insulting to those individuals (including myself) who devote great portions of their lives engaged in the full study of such issues that a gentleman with the "supposed" intelligence of Mr. Harris would be so lax in his understanding of his position he espouses, the evidence he presents, and being totally unoriginal in His arguments against the Christian faith. Russell & Flew have my respect, you, Mr. Harris do not!
To believe the bible is true is honestly to be mentally ill. This is not a joke it is simple fact. Resurrections, miracles, invisible gods... Why are people still taking this seriously? The answer is... unfounded ignorant fear.
@Diablo112687 You will bow to Jesus Christ just as the rest.There are no dead atheists...get a grip.It's almost too late.The Bible is the best book we have.Sam Harris is one giant mind that seeps the weakest ideology that stems straight from the Darwinian wanna be worldview.
@Diablo112687 Coming from someone naming himself after "the prince of lies",i think believe i will stick with Jesus Christ,who said he saw your boss fall from the sky like lightening.Change sides,man.Sam Harris is a shell of spiritual and moral decay that only God in His mercy can save.Go check out Ravi Zacharias on youtube..he chews this guy up intellectually and philosophicly..we've been praying for you already,Diablo!gnite
@Diablo112687 I think it goes far deeper than that. There is real power in the things that mommy and daddy teach kids. brainwashing kids into believing in invisible entities is truly sick. and unforgivable prevalent in our society. perhaps in a could of hundred years we'll evolve beyond a need to believe in Mythology. Perhaps...
Religion is a cancer upon humanity, and the sooner it's eradicated, the better.
mikefromwa 1 day ago 5
@mikefromwa Its a kind of brainwashing compared with a neurological condition. Thats why people from the same background become atheists, fundamentalists or normal believers. People with Parkinson often become very religous during the desease or loose their religion. It depends on their brain activity. You can force this neurological condition if you brainwash very young children. Than they become fanatic Nazis, Christians, Muslims or communists. Willing to die or to kill for their conviction.
daswenzel 1 day ago
@daswenzel: "Its a kind of brainwashing compared with a neurological condition."
Yes, but it's also a corrosive and inimical condition that retards the progress of culture and society. I doubt there's ever been a society that benefited from religion in the long run.
mikefromwa 21 hours ago
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daswenzel 12 hours ago
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@mikefromwa I doubt it as well, because all big religions don´t like science, because they fear logic. If you are a logical person nowadays, knowing about cloning, test-tube fertilization, near-death experiences induced by certain activations of the brain, mars missions, cryonic technology and such things, you mostly have problems to believe in a talking snake, a woman which turned to salt because she turned her head or a creature which is not an alien or a plant with no earthly father.
daswenzel 11 hours ago
@daswenzel: "all big religions don´t like science, because they fear logic"
Bingo. Yes, they fear logic and reason because their fairy tales are 100% incompatible with those things. The Noah's Ark story is a perfect example of an impossible "event" that is supposed to be true. Completely and utterly impossible even at a casual glance.
mikefromwa 10 hours ago
@mikefromwa So true! I don´t know how simple minded someons must be to believe that a pair of all insects on the planet were in this boat together with a pair of every bird species. And this for... how many days?
daswenzel 10 hours ago
@mikefromwa I am pretty sure after a few days Noahs ark was a bloody mess!
daswenzel 10 hours ago
"@mikefromwa Apparently all you've taken is a casual glance Mike. "Noah's Ark:A Feasibility Study" is a very simple book for you to read to understand how it would be possible. Remember, you can't take God out of the equation, since it's His story.So with that, I believe that you'll find some interesting theories in there, along with proofs that it is in fact possible to have physically happened.No, not completely and utterly impossible. Implausible without studying? Perhaps, but not impossible.
ZiggyzPaw 4 hours ago
@ZiggyzPaw: "Apparently all you've taken is a casual glance Mike"
LOLOLOLOL!!! You could NOT be more wrong.
"it is in fact possible to have physically happened"
No, it's not. Did all the animals in the world live within walking distance of the Ark? How was all the food and water stored? How did Noah know about koalas, since Australia hadn't been discovered yet?
I mean really, it's the most gigantic bullshit story ever written.
mikefromwa 3 hours ago
@ZiggyzPaw: Have you ever been to a zoo? See how big the zoo is? What percentage of the world's animals do you think were in that zoo? Do you think you could actually build a boat large enough to hold them all plus a year's worth of food and water?
Don't be a sap, the Noah's Ark story is so ridiculous that it's fucking embarrassing.
mikefromwa 3 hours ago
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daswenzel 3 hours ago
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@mikefromwa Look at the wonder of Kana? We have here the son of god who is able to do wonders. And the best he could do is change water into wine during a wedding? Either this guy was an alcoholic and needed a drink or he had too much time on his hands. In these days people starved and suffered everywhere. But Jesus obviously had other plans for this day. The german church claim Kana as a symbol, like all parts of the bible they can´t sell anylonger as real stories. How convenient!
daswenzel 3 hours ago
@daswenzel: Believers are dying off, no question. Religion is dying a slow death, fewer people buy into the god story each year and it's only a matter of time before it becomes embarrassing to admit that someone believes in an invisible, telepathic sky-daddy. It may not happen in my lifetime, but it's inevitable. We know longer believe in Thor, Ra, or Anubis, and all belief in god will eventually go the same way. It's a done deal.
mikefromwa 2 hours ago
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daswenzel 2 hours ago
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@mikefromwa I don´t share your optimism. You will always have a few intelligent people who just ignore logic and who lead a huge herd of dumbasses who just believe without even asking. In Germany 67% of the "normal" people believe in god or something but only a few percent of the academics. The religous academics in natural science are even more rare. I wonder why, lol... Maybe its hard to believe in 6000 years old earth when your own experiment dates your fossile 50 000 years in the past.
daswenzel 2 hours ago
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@ZiggyzPaw: Have you ever been to a zoo? See how big the zoo is? What percentage of the world's animals do you think were in that zoo? Do you think you could actually build a boat large enough to hold them all plus a year's worth of food and water?
Don't be a sap, the Noah's Ark story is so ridiculous that it's fucking embarrassing.
mikefromwa 3 hours ago
...@lotaetasigma , ...3)Families hating you, He's saying here that in as much as the people hated Him when He came to earth, so too will even your family hate you when you say the same things, in preaching the gospel of Christ. 4) He's not a racist, but a) the Hebrews were God's chosen people, for whatever reason He had, and b) you have to remember that Jesus came to preach to the Jews. The message He brought, and subsequently died to complete, was for both Jews and Gentiles. I hope that helps
ZiggyzPaw 2 days ago
@lotaetasigma I'm just passing through, but I'll respond here in short. 1) In hating your family, He is speaking of the amount with which you must love Him and follow Him, perhaps even at the cost of having to put your family aside if they cause you to choose between them and Him.2)Plucking out your eyes and cutting off your hands were not literal, but figurative in saying that as bad as those things would be to do, sinning before a Holy God, and facing that punishment would be that much worse..
ZiggyzPaw 2 days ago
Okay, for all the nitwits about to play that old stupid "out of context" card, there is no context in which the stuff he's talking about is okay.
YourDogIsDeadHAHA 3 days ago
@YourDogIsDeadHAHA That's about the most ignorant statement I've ever heard! Context is everything! For instance, say my dog just died. So, who are you to laugh at my grieving?!?! If you stood before me and just said your name above, I'd lay you out! But of course, I would be wrong to do so, since the context in which you chose your name had nothing to do with my loss. Learn the context in which these things were said, and be as open as you claim we should be. We look at both sides, do you?!
ZiggyzPaw 2 days ago
@ZiggyzPaw No. There is no context in which slavery and the other things sam harris is talking about here are okay. I understand the concept of context. But it's not an automatic trump card to be played every time someone says something you don't like. Harris is not out of context at all in this video.
YourDogIsDeadHAHA 1 day ago
@YourDogIsDeadHAHA First of all, you're confusing slavery in the early Americas with bond servanthood in the bible. Agreed, slavery against one's will and for no benefit to the enslaved would be wrong. BUT, bond servanthood was completely different, as would slavery when ordered by God Himself. If you speak of God ordering enslavement, then you have to look forward to the benefit of that enslavement when measured to the glory and honor of God Himself, whether you like that or not, He's still God
ZiggyzPaw 1 day ago
@ZiggyzPaw Boy have you been brainwashed. You like slavery, go be a slave. Wait, what am I thinking, you ARE one, at least in the mind. Your argument rests on the assumption that this fictional god is actually real, and not just a justification for people who wanted to slave and control people, of which you are, in one form or another a victim. Please stop talking to me. I don't want to hear anything a person like you has to say about anything.
YourDogIsDeadHAHA 1 day ago
@YourDogIsDeadHAHA For these people god is real. Its like talking to a psychopath who hear voices in his head. For him they are as real as for you the computer you are sitting in front of. I am quite sure if somebody tells you its not a computer but a big cheese, you wouldn´t believe it either. The difference is: EVERYBODY can see and touch your computer and nobody has merely to believe in it.
daswenzel 11 hours ago
@daswenzel Then tell me, where did all existent matter come from, if not from "God", whomever He may be?
ZiggyzPaw 4 hours ago
@ZiggyzPaw Maybe it has always been there. Human spirit can only handle something with a beginning and an end. Everything apart this we can´t understand. If we come to the point, that we have an eternity behind us AND in front of us maybe with a spiritless universe, we are looking for an explanation which doesn´t blow our mind. And this is a supernatural and omnipotent equivalent to a human. Our father in heaven who has always been there and built the universe and the earth for his children.
daswenzel 4 hours ago
@daswenzel But the mere fact, that our human mind is not able to accept a "soulless universe", doesn´t proof that there is a god. Maybe in a 1000 years our brain evolved to a point, where all this things are completely logical. Like people from 1000 years ago would went crazy if they had seen our technology from today.
daswenzel 4 hours ago
@daswenzel remember, people from1000 years ago were not remise of the intellect to understand, just the information to understand.In other words, they were just as able to understand things, if those things had been derived from their culture.If you take something from today's technology, an Ipod for example, and show it to my father, he would not comprehend it until he was taught how it worked internally.Yet he was a college graduate, and very smart. He won't go crazy, just yearn to understand.
ZiggyzPaw 40 minutes ago
@daswenzel and, I can accept a 'soulless' universe, as long as that is proven to be the case. Our search is for truth, not to win or create a universe to fit us. If you can disprove the things I hold to be truth, then I will change. Until then, I stand on what I know to be true. And no, truth is not relative nor subjective. Facts may be, since they can change, and beliefs are. You choose what you believe in, and I choose what I believe in. Still, Truth is Truth.
ZiggyzPaw 37 minutes ago
@daswenzel It can't have always been there. Study actual and potential infinites. You can't start at where we are, and look infinitely into the past and call it infinity, or always having been there. Time doesn't travel in reverse. You would have to start in the past and move forward, as time does. With that, matter could not have always been there, and thus, had to have a beginning, some time, some how. So, how did that matter come to be, now that we know that it could not have always been?
ZiggyzPaw 44 minutes ago
@YourDogIsDeadHAHA Like I said, you don't understand the terms, and yes, I am a slave to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I have to agree with you on that one. It's funny how you can accept the historicity of other historical figures, based on the accepted proofs found in writings of first hand accounts, but when it comes to those writings gathered and printed in what we call the Bible, you totally dismiss it all.Why do you think that is? You use a different set of rules for what you want to be.
ZiggyzPaw 8 hours ago
Now why do you assume that I accept the historicity of other historical figures automatically? I don't accept ANY historical document dogmatically and believe it without flaw. I examine evidence and realize that even with the best information available, there are bound to be flaws here and there. What throws up a red flag for me is when people make outlandish supernatural claims i.e. raising the dead. You don't see the difference???
YourDogIsDeadHAHA 7 hours ago
@YourDogIsDeadHAHA Oh sure, I see the difference. But, first of all, you do accept claims without researching them first. Do you believe that we landed men on the moon? Have you researched that, or do you just believe what you hear on the news? Trust me, the news is ALWAYS at least a bit wrong, more often very much wrong, and that's from personal experience. As for raising the dead, that's the whole point, He was God. Rising from the dead and raising from the dead are proofs of that.
ZiggyzPaw 4 hours ago
@ZiggyzPaw If god wants us all to believe in him and live our lives according to his will, why doesn´t he book 10 minutes on the evening news? One huge wonder all over the world and well all would live in peace and the love of god and the world would be paradise and everybody would go to heaven. But now.. some bad decisions in a few years a human live lasts or you were born in the wrong country or to the wrong sexualtiy, and you are thrown into the fires of hell for the rest of eternity.
daswenzel 3 hours ago
@ZiggyzPaw and like I said, we're done talking. Please leave me alone. I have no interest in what a self-admitted psychological slave to mythology thinks about anything. Take your bronze-age bullshit and do with it what you like, just leave me out of it. I am not and will never be a member of your zombie Jesus cult. And if heaven is entirely populated by characters such as you, I will take my chances in hell. Please never contact me again for any reason.
YourDogIsDeadHAHA 7 hours ago
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ZiggyzPaw 4 hours ago
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daswenzel 3 hours ago
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@YourDogIsDeadHAHA Well spoken! Maybe hell has only bad marketing issues. Imagine sitting on a cloud and playing the lute for the next few billion years. And this is supposed to be paradise?
daswenzel 3 hours ago
@YourDogIsDeadHAHA Yeah, he is. No, it is not to be used as an automatic trump card. But at the same time, you can't dismiss the fact that if Sam is using the Americas' form of slavery in comparison to a blanket of all slavery mentioned in the bible, then he is taking, at least in some part, the term 'slavery' and those applied verses out of context. You can't call all slavery bad, because bond servanthood was a good thing for those in it. It supplied for their families when there was no work.
ZiggyzPaw 8 hours ago
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@ZiggyzPaw As long as you reply to me, I will reply to your post, sorry. I'm not only replying to you, but to anyone who happens across these posts. Are you delusional? Do you really think this is your personal retort page, where you spout off but the other person will just not respond to you because you say not to!?? Really!?! Good luck with that! If you don't want to hear me respond, then don't post to me! Plain, simple, done.But until that time, you have yet to support any of your claims.
ZiggyzPaw 4 hours ago
@YourDogIsDeadHAHA Yes there is!
ZiggyzPaw 4 hours ago
@gspaulsson enlightenment thinkers examined the rational basis of all beliefs and in the process rejected the authority of church and state." aude sapere"(dare to think) Immanuel Kant.
MrTadbu 1 week ago
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This guy is pretty smart. :-)
Notus 1 week ago
This guy is pretty smart. :-)
Notus 1 week ago
This is the most worrying and dangerous thing about religion for me. Most of the religious are harmless, good-natured people (very specific choice of word there) but they legitimise the horrendous acts of violence, cruelty and oppression going on all over the world. If you disagree with slavery, child rape, and murder, you should leave religion. There ARE good things about religion but they are not intrinsic to it, they are brought by good people like you who are trapped in a church of hate.
Libervurto 2 weeks ago 2
@Libervurto By picking and choosing from the bible you are already being a bad christian. But that doesn't matter, the church doesn't care about your opinion, it doesn't even care if you really believe. All that matters is that you say you believe. The church only cares about numbers, it only cares about power and money. When you say you're christian on the census you raise the percentage of christians in the population, allowing the church to build more churches and collect more money, tax free
Libervurto 2 weeks ago 2
@Libervurto But you'll get paid back right? Of course you will. Every week your local preacher tells you that you'll be paid back, but he can't pay you right now and he'll get back to you on that. He says he has a powerful friend who will reward you, but not yet, you have to wait a while, but after you're dead you can go see him. Just tell him I sent you and he'll give you anything you want, honest.
If this doesn't sound like a con, I don't know what does.
Libervurto 2 weeks ago 3
@Libervurto Hey Bud, I have to agree with you about the church today. You are not off track on that. But please try to understand that this religious church that you speak of is not the same church spoken of in the bible. There are those of us who ARE born again, and who do look at all sides of topics being discussed. we understand that giving is between you and God, and that He will reward you for that. But don't think that we have any other agenda than bringing Truth to light, in order to...
ZiggyzPaw 2 days ago
@ZiggyzPaw ...cont'd. share what God's shown us. We're no better than you, just enlightened. That's not to say smarter, just that we've had revelation from God. The same God y'all say does not exist. The bible's church does not just believe that He is, and that Jesus was God in flesh, we KNOW that this is the truth. I can't prove it to you, nor can I show you. All I can do is try to explain the apparent contradictions you find within the scriptures and within the false church. Good observations.
ZiggyzPaw 2 days ago
@ZiggyzPaw You can not prove and you can not show, how on earth can you KNOW? Did God spoke to you in person? For people who know things nobody else can see there is a special expression which I don´t want to write here. If somebody says he knows he is the incarnation of Napoleon, he is send in the mental home though nobody can prove the opposite. If somebody says, I know a creator exists therefore they should teach it in school, he becomes president. At least in the USA.
daswenzel 1 day ago
@daswenzel Can you please respond in English. I can't understand half of what you're saying!! As for the first part, yes, He did, in a manner, speak to me. It's more like He revealed Himself to me, but none the less, this will mean nothing to you, I agree, unless you knew me. I can't go into all of the logical proof here, nor will I, but if 'beyond a reasonable doubt' works in our highest court system, it should work here, too. At least until He reveals Himself to you, also. I'm just sayin'....
ZiggyzPaw 1 day ago
@ZiggyzPaw YYou are right this means nothing to me, because when you go in a mad house you have a lot of similar experiences. In your case God revealed himself, in others Allah, voices in the head, the Devil or Santa Claus. I saw schizophrenic patients, who were willing to die for their belief that they are the savior. Strangely, after the treatment, they changed their mind completely But this will mean nothing to you, because you live in another dimension.
daswenzel 1 day ago
@daswenzel You've said a lot here. FIrst, the difference in these religions is that they can not back up their holy scriptures. Their books do not hold up to scrutiny. And I don't expect you to believe me on my word that I heard from God. There are a majority of professing Christians who have not heard from God, but have chosen that religion to follow. There is a difference. Why is my, and others', conversion different? Because it holds up to scripture. Why is scripture reliable? Because...
ZiggyzPaw 8 hours ago
@daswenzel ...because it check out across so many fields; historically, psychologically, logically, scientifically, etc. Yes, I said scientifically. Unless you study these areas from a reliable source, then you will not see that.Even if you do, you may still not accept that. As I and many others understand, you will not accept it, not fully understand it, until the Holy Spirit reveals it to you.And that's fine. But for now, there's plenty of evidence to validify this collection of holy writings.
ZiggyzPaw 8 hours ago
@ZiggyzPaw "As I and many others understand, you will not accept it, not fully understand it, until the Holy Spirit reveals it to you" Okay, friend, I think I understand. And regarding your evidence. In europe (I am from Germany) no unreligious scientist seriously trys to disprove the stories of the bible compared to normal history or biology, because its beneath them. In europe only journalists are doing such things in TV documentations,
daswenzel 7 hours ago
@ZiggyzPaw When they take a closer look in the validity of the bible they get the same amount of documented proof as in the greek legends, the old scandinavian stories, the german Nibelungen-legends and so on. Some historical accordance and a lot of old wives tales. And sorry for my englisch, but my first language is german and my second is french.
daswenzel 7 hours ago
@daswenzel You're kidding, right? So, because it's Germany, what happens there is truth? Or, is it because you've read so many of the nonreligious scientist that you know what they all say?Or, is it that you've at least studied the biblical documents against the greek legends, scandinavian lore, and so on?You see, you're believing what you're told without any personal experience to back that up, nor any in depth study of what you're quoting to be true. Yet I continue to talk to you, why is that?
ZiggyzPaw 4 hours ago
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daswenzel 3 hours ago
@ZiggyzPaw You live in the dark ages and I live in 21 century.
daswenzel 3 hours ago
@daswenzel That's kind of ignorant of you, don't you think? Do you know the reasons I think what I think? All of them? Have you given me any , ANY reasons to think otherwise, besides your opinions? You have plenty of those, but you fail to provide any undeniable proof to substantiate what you claim to be true about what I believe to be true. Good job, Doc.
ZiggyzPaw 29 minutes ago
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@ZiggyzPaw Do you now in detail how the cloning of a mammal works? I tell you that today there would be no scientific problem to create a human being in a tube, with no human man involved. I have a phd in molecular genetics and I am working for a company named Bio-rad laboratories. Give me the proper instruments and I could do it. And to go even further, me and my collegues are pretty sure, someone already did it. And now you come with your talking snake and your old book. Ridiculous!
daswenzel 3 hours ago
@daswenzel You can't create anything.You can recreate using pre-existant material, but to create, you would have to start with nothing.That's called a God Complex.You think you're creating, but you are not.I have no doubt, by the way, that you can make, or recreate, or clone as you say, a human being without using human hands.Robotics are great!But you still have to program those robotics, and have a human from which to get your DNA in the first place.So that being said, your point is....what?
ZiggyzPaw 32 minutes ago
@ZiggyzPaw That I can "recreate"a human being with no human father. So maybe this part of the bible is true and the arcangle Gabriel was a time traveller with genetical skills? Just prove me the opposite... I bet that you shake your head now about this stupid argument because for you the mere idea is stupid though you will never be able to prove me wrong. Than maybe you understand how I feel when I read your arguments.
daswenzel 22 minutes ago
@ZiggyzPaw In my commentary below I was referring to your former president Bush, who wants creation as a school subject although there is not a single evidence for this theorie. But if someone says he is the incarnation of Napoleon, people say he is mental. Even nobody can prove that he is not Napoleon. And never mind if you only understand half what I am saying. I don´t understand anything you say... even if I can read english very good.
daswenzel 1 day ago
@daswenzel Aaaah, so you're from another country. Where are you from?! Oh, and it's 'very well' not 'very good'. Anyway, You see, here's the thing. Yes, we'd say he's mental because we can prove otherwise. With Jesus, we can prove from the writings that He said that He was God. By the other aspects of what is written, we can also say that he was either deceptive, God as He said, or he was as you say, mental. Weighing all that is recorded, we're left with He was God. Just study this a little.
ZiggyzPaw 7 hours ago
SAM HARRIS... NO FIRE... this video it very misleading...
Sboy200 2 weeks ago
God is not great. He is tool of man to control the uneducated masses.slowly but surely man will leave him behind.
MrTadbu 2 weeks ago 9
@MrTadbu has been forging the tools to leave him behind ever since the Enlightenment.
gspaulsson 2 weeks ago
thank god for sam harris o.O
zcarver25 2 weeks ago 5
so if you are so poor you can't afford to feed your dog... you can't sell your daughter? wth?
wondergundy 2 weeks ago
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@TheHigherVoltage The Bible also speaks of the Holy Spirit being "fire", which again speaks to the ancient literary style...and the impossibility of explaining everything in human language.
now, just because Hell may not be real fire does not mean it won't be bad. It'll be worse!
Again, tough to imagine the complete lack of ALL goodness. In other words: even burning in fire you may still be able to recall fond memories of family, etc. Not in Hell. No such goodness will be there.
BrotherofWord 3 weeks ago
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@TheHigherVoltage The "justice" in Hell as God's judgement is that God is giving people what they WANT: an existence without Him. Absence of God is torment because everything good that is experienced by anyone is a grace afforded by God, which we should be humbly thankful for. Nobody can imagine how "bad" the absence of "good" is. Nobody can explain it either, which is why most scholars, understanding the imagery used ancient mid-east literature, see the "fire" of Hell as metophorical
BrotherofWord 3 weeks ago
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@TheHigherVoltage The God of the Bible is a loving God. He gives everybody:
1) Life and any good thing they ever experience in it, yet ALL people choose to serve and honor themselves
2) His Son, who existed forever in heaven as God, yet divested himself of all rights of divinity to become a man so that He could take OUR punishment
3) Precisely what the want: an eternity with Him or without Him (more explained next post)
This is the epitome of divine love!
BrotherofWord 3 weeks ago
Bravo :)
IIreull 4 weeks ago
a message to the believer.....please WAKE UP!!!! gods existence is good argument,and in an unlimited universe,even plausable.but to believe what acient men wrote thousands of years ago is stupidy and gullability at the highest level.there are no words in the english language to describe how stupid i find religious believe,none at all.
reeceyhiggs 1 month ago
@reeceyhiggs Higgy, What if an oral tradition of thousands of years passed down 'stories' to a point where they were written down. Then those writings were hidden, yet the oral tradition lived on. Then those 'stories' were written down again at a later time to continue being written until today. What if those writings we have today were verified by writings from very near, historically speaking, to some of the actual events. Would you say that those original oral traditions were viable? I would.
ZiggyzPaw 48 seconds ago
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There is no contradiction in the Bible; Jesus loves you so, God is love and God is justice and God will not tolerate sin in Heaven. Someone who clings to their sin will not enter Heaven where everything is purity. You opinion don't change what is true! Do you thoughts make it so that God diseapears? Can, through your human power make the Eternal God vanish? Just because you don't understand the bible and read it without praying first mean that it is not God's Word? No Bible-tube(doc)com
fabienmaga 1 month ago
@fabienmaga Hilarious...so the bible only makes sense if you pray before you read it? Oooooooohhhh.....So god is love and justice? is that why he murdered so many people and called for the murder of many more? And it's okay to rape people because god said it was okay. And if you think either of these things aren't true it means you haven't read the bible. evilbible(dot)com
KillaKillaKevvy 1 month ago 5
@fabienmaga "God is love and God is justice and God will not tolerate sin in Heaven."
Love is not 'if you don't love me I'll light you on fire.'
Justice is not "every crime, no matter how big or small, is sentenced to eternal torture"
nor is justice "You can avoid punishment for any crime if you believe the punishment is scapegoated"
Heaven is not 'no free will' - all godrobots.
The god of the bible is a sadistic retard. There may be real God(s) - biblegod ain't it.
TheHigherVoltage 3 weeks ago 6
@fabienmaga ::: No contradiction??? Bart Ehrman wrote a 280 page book titled "Jesus, Interrupted" about contradictions in the bible. The bible is a quagmire of truth and error and must be 'rightly divided'. God is perfect and does not exhibit human failures such as wrath, jealousy, or hatred; not does He send his children to be tortured forever. We need to understand the bible in a more rational way.
k0smon 3 weeks ago
@k0smon How is this possible, if the bible is gods word? Errors and truth must be rightly divided? Why? How can something directly from god be wrong? So this Bart Ehrman is prophet himself that he knows which are the true words of god and which are only from men? Maybe the guy who describes Jesus as a slave torturer is right? It is in the bible isn´t it? Like Noahs boat, mary´s virginity birth, lots wife in salt, walking on water and coming back from the dead.
daswenzel 3 weeks ago 2
@daswenzel ::: The bible is not God's word. It is not directly from God. It is 66 different books decided upon by committees of men.
k0smon 3 weeks ago
@k0smon Okay, so what do we have from god then?
daswenzel 3 weeks ago 2
@daswenzel ::: We have His creation to study. "what does the lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God" It is so very simple it does not require a book. We already know how to live and relate to each other, Dale Carnegie had that figured out. Wayne Dyer can tell you about spirituality. Practice the presence of God thru meditation and prayer. I use a book called OAHSPE to tell me about God. The afterlife? "Life in the World Unseen" free dwnld.
k0smon 3 weeks ago
@k0smon I understand. You have nothing but your personal belief. Like the belief in horoscopes, ghosts, aliens and communicating pineapples. They all tell the same stuff. And they are all sure, they are right. What I don´t get is the fact that you are so arrogant to think, that such powerfull beeing like "god" which exists according to all religous scientests apart all universal laws, care about a little speck like you, in the eternal range of time and space? Wait-you don´t think-you believe..
daswenzel 3 weeks ago 7
@k0smon And if you believe with such a deep trust, you must have some neurobiological issues. Like the people who let bombs explode on a market place, to go to paradise with 77 virgins. Your brains work all in a similar way. I bet you are 100% sure that such a fellow goes to hell and he is 100% sure, that you go to hell. I am 100% sure that you both, won´t go anywhere after your death. You will be just dead after a wasted life. We will find out eventually... or more likely...not....
daswenzel 3 weeks ago 19
@daswenzel Is it not 72 virgins?
stephenboing 1 day ago
@stephenboing If he is lucky, 2 virgins and 70 sluts. I always asked myself, what the virgins did to deserve such a fate?
daswenzel 1 day ago
@daswenzel Well said my friend, i came onto the internet to get perspective with regards to the truth, however theres so much rhetoric to wade through, the best i can conclude is to try and enjoy every second afforded to me, and i sincerely wish you the same old bean.
stephenboing 8 hours ago
@k0smon Hi Dude! Hey, you're missing something, though. I've only read a couple of your posts, but it seems that you're leaving out logic. Please don't get mad. For instance, in Islam, you get 77 (72) virgins.Okay, after you have them, what have you got for the rest of eternity?Also, it doesn't say whether they're male or female! I think that we would have to look at the holy writings and determine what holds up to scrutiny and logic and what does not. Just making up what you believe won't work.
ZiggyzPaw 7 hours ago
@ZiggyzPaw How do you think eternity will be in paradise? And... trust me on that... eternity is a bloody long time...
daswenzel 7 hours ago
@daswenzel What will heaven be like? Or paradise? Christian or Islam? Christian Paradise is to be in the presence of God with Jesus in spirit form, praising and glorifying God. Heaven will be a bodily existence, yet in a glorified body, on a new earth, again, glorifying and honoring God. To understand that, you would have to understand the purpose of God Himself. As for Islam, there is nothing after death for them because their religion is a false religion, and does not stand up to scrutiny.
ZiggyzPaw 22 minutes ago
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@ZiggyzPaw You really suprise me. Sometimes you debate so clear and logic and the next minute you sound like the worst fanatic I ever had to deal with. "Christian Paradise is to be in the presence of God with Jesus in spirit form, praising and glorifying God." And this forever? No thanks, than I prefer to stop existing. And the most disturbing fact: I had the same discussion with a muslim, he told me excactly the same. I am sure if I start with a jew I hear the 3rd version of the same story.
daswenzel 16 minutes ago
@ZiggyzPaw ::: Not sure what your point is. What makes you think the 'holy writings' are correct? I don't think they are any more holy than any other book. You judge by their content. You believe it, if its truth is self evident or it agrees with that which you already know is true.
You might get enlightenment from Bart Ehrman's book "Jesus, Interrupted". He talks about the Liar Lunatic or Lord argument, adding his own: Legend. He says Jesus never claimed to be divine.
k0smon 6 hours ago
@k0smon Bart Ehrman!? You have got to be kidding. Not someone you would want to follow, as he turns on a dime. Regardless, legend would mean that Jesus would not have existed except in lore, yet he then says that Jesus never claimed to be divine. Well, okay, then He existed. We can't ignore that fact. His claiming to be divine would, on the surface, tend to point to the verse where He says,"Unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins" John8:24. The word "he" is not in the original..
ZiggyzPaw 17 minutes ago
@k0smon ...cont'd but is inferred. This being said, He(Jesus) was equating Himself with God, and in doing such claimed Deity. THus the reason for the Pharisees wanting Him killed. As to why the book is more holy, well, it either is holy or it is not. If it does not hold up to scrutiny, then it is false, and thus not holy. We're talking verifiable things like places mentioned, science mentioned, etc. Some things are time relevant, some are not. Some things are literal, some are not.
ZiggyzPaw 13 minutes ago
@ZiggyzPaw "Some things are time relevant, some are not. Some things are literal, some are not." This interesting... Who makes the determination? Because in the past you were burned alive if you didn´t take the bible word for word and you surely went directly to hell.
daswenzel 9 minutes ago
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@ZiggyzPaw Maybe in 100 years even your church (whatever your church is) says that a huge part of the bible is not literal but symbolic and nobody goes to hell because this is only a synonym for something. Than you will look like the witchhunters from the 16th century. Ancient!
daswenzel 4 minutes ago
@k0smon So now, we take only the parts of the bible as gods words, which don´t sound completely irrational in our times. How convenient. It would be funny if not all over the world people were killed in the name of gods (no one ever found a single evidence which one can understand without the necessity to believe). From people who "know" the truth for sure. If there is a god, it must be really a cruel and remorseless beeing.
daswenzel 3 weeks ago 4
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You are assuming that the Old Testament is like today's world! The government was a theocracy! Meaning God was the king and the ruler! There was no king! When Israel chose to have kings the morality went down! If the evildoer is not punished, then 'man's heart is fully set on doing evil' 1) homosexuals are an abomination to God and can repent and be saved like any other sin 2) Israel went to war and the loosers could be slaves, instead of putting them in jail like today! Bible-tube(dot)com
fabienmaga 1 month ago
@fabienmaga why should people repent for the way they are born...if god doesn't like gay people he shouldn't make them gay. idiot.
KillaKillaKevvy 1 month ago 7
Christian kindness does not equal secular happiness. Christian happiness depends on Christians being superior to others and for non-Christians to be punished beyond any human concept of sadism.
Can you imagine Christian happiness being the same if they were taught that atheists and Christians both live forever in a blissful afterlife? No. It is only blissful for the Christians when they are right and everyone else is horribly wrong.
This is how cults work. Religious or secular.
rcguy69 1 month ago 3
@rcguy69No,if we all lived in a blissfull afterlife, that would be great!What world are you living in where those who care enough to share and try to explain what they know are happy about you suffering?That's the last thing we want!That's why we try to reason things out with you.Also, know that not everyone who takes the Christian side is a true Christian."You'll know them by their love for one another."We care.We may be sarcastic at times, but hey, we still care.Doesn't mean we can't have fun.
ZiggyzPaw 7 hours ago
people check out josh allem solving the ufo mystery
crazysillybaby1 1 month ago
Christianity: PWNED.
kossmikham 1 month ago 5
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Dawkins has claimed, “As for religion … nobody wields a sharper bayonet than Sam Harris.” Harris debated Craig on 7th April. In his opening statement in that debate, Harris declared that Dr Craig is “the one Christian apologist who seems to have put the fear of God into many of my fellow atheists.” After that debate, the atheist website Debunking Christianity reported: “Bill (Craig) has once again showed himself as the best debater of this generation.” ROFL
RosesOfTimes 1 month ago
weak.
brentjones4831 1 month ago
@brentjones4831 What is weak about it?
writersblock26 1 month ago 2
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The audacity of us human beings to even try to discern the existence of a GOD is extremely arrogant, since we do not have the mental intellect or capacity to do so in the first place.....so keep contemplating nonsensical conjectural debate with more and more non-provable rhetoric!
lifeschild1 1 month ago
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Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
22 If you were a slave when the Lord chose you, you are now free in the Lord. You belong to the Lord. In the same way, if you were free when you were chosen, you are now Christ’s slave. 23 God paid a high price for you, so don’t be slaves to anyone else. 24 Brothers and sisters, in your new life with God, each one of you should continue the way you were when God chose you....the NT teaches that we should NOT be slaves except to Christ, figuratively.
kenpca 1 month ago
Do people realize there are LOTS AND LOTS of forms of slavery, but the kind mentioned here is of the Bible, and is not half of what you might think it to be.
I don't see many repo-man protesters, or human rights advocates going after LEGAL foreign (poor people) dating services.
No... I do not like the idea that there are people that are that poor and destitute.
LampPlaceThing 1 month ago
@LampPlaceThing The distance you are willing to travel around the point, and the energy you are willing to put forth to try to somehow justify these atrocious beliefs is appalling. Just imagine if you spent that much effort on contributing to science research, or even defeating things like slavery that still exists today... :(
pianomatteo 1 month ago 2
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@pianomatteo It's debtors... It's different. People soled THEMSELVES into slavery.
If only people like you petitioned the U.N. against minimum wage, and repo men... in fact there should be a "year of jubilee" where all domestic (within your own allied family) debt is forgotten.
Leviticus 23: 53 "Like a man hired year by year he shall be with him; he shall not rule over him with severity in your sight." Oh that sounds harsh!
LampPlaceThing 1 month ago
@pianomatteo Oh by the way how much is the richest man in the world ..."worth?"
Oh I am considering a human being as something with a price tag, how awful of me (I am being sarcastic and not clear in the understanding of "worth" to demonstrate a point).
LampPlaceThing 1 month ago
Speaking as an atheist I have to say the problem with Sam Harris is that when questioned on his Buddhist meditation he refuses to denounce the Buddhist idea of reincarnation and the fact that the Dali Lama wants to establish a Theocracy in Tibet.
lewisner 1 month ago
lol. religious people are fuckin bat shit nuts.
CheezzusChrist 1 month ago 3
Yes, the Bible does say those things Sam pointed out. But the reason it is so extreme is made clearer when you understand the reasons why God did those things and who He is. No, its not because He's malicious or sadistic, they are commanded because they highlight the seriousness of sin. As hard as it is to comprehend how a loving God can order murder, it's because sin against God is MORE wrong!
Nucourier 1 month ago
@Nucourier : Way to justify murder and slavery...
Angelalynx999 1 month ago 2
@Nucourier ""highlight the seriousness of sin""
Well said bro.
j919or 1 month ago
@Nucourier Are you saying that stoning sassy children "highlights the seriousness of sin"?
If God is omnipotent, then he could achieve any end by any means. He could do it with or without suffering, which means suffering is unnecessary. If an omnipotent god exists, it chose to cause unecessary suffering. That is malicious and sadistic. Commanding someone to cause unnecessary suffering is also malicious and sadistic.
8WholeThing 1 month ago
@Nucourier Is this irony or do you really mean it? It the same thing, what happend when one insulted Hitler. If you insulted your father you got a clap on the cheek, if you insulted Hitler you were hanged. Now, this explains a lot...
daswenzel 3 weeks ago
To be fair these aren't exactly fallacies. They are just examples of some of the immoral acts done by people in the bible.
Anasurimbor9 1 month ago
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Dt 15.15-18
"12If a fellow Hebrew, a man or a woman, sells himself to you and serves you six years, in the seventh year you must let him go free." 16 "But if your servant says to you, “I do not want to leave you,” because he loves you and your family and is well off with you, 17then take an awl and push it through his ear lobe into the door, and he will become your servant for life."
The servant WANTED to stay a slave. In fact just go read that entire page!
LampPlaceThing 2 months ago
@LampPlaceThing - "The servant WANTED to stay a slave"
God commands the Hebrews to attack other tribes, and kill men, women, and children, but KEEP the virgins for themselves.
Do you think those virgin women WANTED to be slaves? And SEX-slaves, at that?
gekritzl 2 months ago 3
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@gekritzl Hey man, I suggest you direct me to a place filled with pro-humanrights activists going against the selling of Chinese brides... you won't find any. There is a very clear indication that the human rights activists do not care.
UNLESS you are talking about kids in perverted slave trade or various crap the bible has no affiliation with, then I have nothing more to say to your sick concept of Judaeo-Christian beliefs.
LampPlaceThing 2 months ago
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Same Harris does not keep in mind that the Jews were often slaves themselves, throughout the Bible.
Slavery is a job... like european nannies people employ to this very day in America (and abroad)
LampPlaceThing 2 months ago
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3:10 "in ethical terms we should be practicing slavery. the creator of the universe clearly expects us to keep slaves"
You lost me there Sam Harris.. eh why the word "EXPECT?"
(young Christian speaking)
LampPlaceThing 2 months ago
@LampPlaceThing - "why the word EXPECT?" - Because, if you would read your bible, "God" not only supports slavery, but legislates it; and Jesus never admonishes slave owners. Jesus even tells them how severely to whip them!
gekritzl 2 months ago 4
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@gekritzl You still don't give me a place in the bible and you tell me to "read" it?
LampPlaceThing 2 months ago
@LampPlaceThing - 1. THE WHOLE THING. Nowhere does the Bible, or Jesus, condemn slavery.
2. God legislates slavery. Ex 21.7 teaches how to sell your daughter into slavery, for example. Dt 15.15-18 says to nail your slaves to your door by their ears.
3. Jesus approves of slavery: 1 Tim 6.1, Titus 2.9-10, Eph 6.5-6, 1 Peter 2.18.
4. Jesus advises savage whipping of disobedient "servants" - but you don't have to beat obedient slaves quite as savagely. (Luke 12.46-8)
gekritzl 2 months ago 7
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@gekritzl Thank you!
In Luke 12.46-8 Talks about a master (Jesus/God) and the master puts a servant in charge when he is gone. "suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the menservants and maidservants and to eat and drink and get drunk." Surely the servant will be punished for beating the menservants and maidservants.
The story is about the end of the age.. " the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."
LampPlaceThing 2 months ago
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@gekritzl 1 Tim 6.1 "consider their masters worthy of full RESPECT" further more the passage mentioned "God's name and our teaching may not be slandered." which is much different than the muslims in Islam. Have you noticed the bad name Islam gets? when you see violent chaos in front of the embassies in egypt, do you not get a little agitated at that mentality?
LampPlaceThing 2 months ago
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@gekritzl Ex 21.7 was about a man selling his daughter as a inferior wife, or concubine. Like if you go to certain places in China, there are poor women you can marry... yeah I know that sounds messed up, but what should I say to the very poor? do not sell, live in poverty/destitute?
If you read on "If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her." there are rules.
LampPlaceThing 2 months ago
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@gekritzl Leviticus 25:39 "`If one of your countrymen becomes poor among you and sells himself to you, do not make him work as a slave.
For Christians grafted into the Israeli community, we are not to make slaves of ourselves (just incase you didn't know that).
Like with the right to divorce, I see a reason, but not the good of it.
LampPlaceThing 2 months ago
@gekritzl I hope you realize the bible mentions different slavery, in comparison to other idiologies (generally more humane).
LampPlaceThing 2 months ago
@gekritzl Good job on reminding me of "sell your daughter into slavery" which is sick.
However, I would slap you on your account of answering my question: where does God "EXPECT" slavery?, and you answere: "THE WHOLE THING." You have been proven wrong there.
LampPlaceThing 2 months ago
@LampPlaceThing - No, I haven't been proven wrong by any means. Think about it, please: If God is a good god, and if Jesus is a good messiah, then they both would have admonished people for selling human beings. The opposite is true, and it's just like Dr. Harris said -- people are EXPECTED to keep slaves. The bible treats it like any other thing, never questioning its morality. Sick.
gekritzl 2 months ago 14
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@gekritzl So using that same train of thought, God EXPECTS murder, and god EXPECTS Idolatry, and God EXPECTS stealing, and God EXPECTS Lying, and God EXPECTS cheating, and God EXPECTS... etc.
Perhaps I should have clarified why I find the word inappropriate: God does not consider it as a good thing, so why place the word "expect" to that point in the bible?
LampPlaceThing 2 months ago
@LampPlaceThing - God does not consider it as a good thing? Why does he legislate it? Why does he NOT command AGAINST it? Shouldn't one of the 10 commandments have been "Thou shalt not sell or buy fellow humans" instead of the petty, jealous, pious ones (e.g. no other gods before me)?
And you are right, God expects murder and rape -- he even commands it. But he admonishes idoltry (which is stupid because it's a victimless crime; it's not even a valid law in the US).
gekritzl 2 months ago 5
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@gekritzl Why does God legislate divorce? ask yourself that.
LampPlaceThing 2 months ago
@LampPlaceThing religion today discourage divorce for economic reasons...not the well being of the family.
ilindah 2 months ago
@LampPlaceThing - Divorce? You're changing the subject. Ask yourself why God NEVER advises against selling and buying human beings. It's absolutely, as Dr. Harris points out, expected: like buying a donkey or selling a camel. He describes how to legally sell your daughter into slavery. And he tells the Hebrews to kill ALL enemies, except virgin girls, which the Hebrews can keep for themselves.
How can you, in good conscious, defend such an evil book, the Bible?
gekritzl 2 months ago 4
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@gekritzl ""But he admonishes idoltry ""
Bc God is wise enough to admonish against the root of evil which is idolatry. Further He doesnt command rape and murder. But I will command that you cease with the bald assertions and start forming a rational argument.
j919or 1 month ago
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@gekritzl ""Why does he legislate it?""
To mitigate the damages. God doesnt attack all the sin of His people at all times. Slavery isnt in itself wrong. It is the abusive tendencies and lack of love of humans that makes it wrong. Some slaves wanted to be slaves.
j919or 1 month ago
@j919or - "To mitigate the damages" - Why don't both God and Jesus EVER say slavery is wrong? They totally support it. "Slavery isnt in itself wrong" - Why does Jesus say to whip slaves, and why does God say to nail your slaves' ear to the door? You can't tell me these practices aren't WRONG.
gekritzl 1 month ago 5
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@gekritzl If someone said "oh I expect my children to steal, or cheat." would that sound like the person is insinuating something they shouldn't?
LampPlaceThing 2 months ago
@gekritzl actually Slavery as we understand it was punishable by death. yes that is an old testament law. The kind of slavery being addressed is more like being an indentured servant.
hellbindercda 1 month ago
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It is insulting to those individuals (including myself) who devote great portions of their lives engaged in the full study of such issues that a gentleman with the "supposed" intelligence of Mr. Harris would be so lax in his understanding of his position he espouses, the evidence he presents, and being totally unoriginal in His arguments against the Christian faith. Russell & Flew have my respect, you, Mr. Harris do not!
apologistnky1315 2 months ago
To believe the bible is true is honestly to be mentally ill. This is not a joke it is simple fact. Resurrections, miracles, invisible gods... Why are people still taking this seriously? The answer is... unfounded ignorant fear.
Diablo112687 2 months ago 41
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kenpca 1 month ago
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@Diablo112687 You will bow to Jesus Christ just as the rest.There are no dead atheists...get a grip.It's almost too late.The Bible is the best book we have.Sam Harris is one giant mind that seeps the weakest ideology that stems straight from the Darwinian wanna be worldview.
brentjones4831 1 month ago
@brentjones4831 You are delusional.
Diablo112687 1 month ago 4
@Diablo112687 Coming from someone naming himself after "the prince of lies",i think believe i will stick with Jesus Christ,who said he saw your boss fall from the sky like lightening.Change sides,man.Sam Harris is a shell of spiritual and moral decay that only God in His mercy can save.Go check out Ravi Zacharias on youtube..he chews this guy up intellectually and philosophicly..we've been praying for you already,Diablo!gnite
brentjones4831 1 month ago
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@brentjones4831 "Sam Harris is a shell of spiritual and moral decay that only God in His mercy can save."
What I don't notice in your post is which of Sam's remarks (in this video) are incorrect, and why.
lease2coach1 1 month ago
@Diablo112687 I think it goes far deeper than that. There is real power in the things that mommy and daddy teach kids. brainwashing kids into believing in invisible entities is truly sick. and unforgivable prevalent in our society. perhaps in a could of hundred years we'll evolve beyond a need to believe in Mythology. Perhaps...
Trauncher 1 month ago