i don't think you even watched the video. that masked man is trying to say that the capitalist just seized the products of their land and then eventually the land itself giving them nothing in exchange, not even education. you should take note that majority of the people can't compete. capitalist value everything in this world based on a price tag.
@iganduyan07 there was no seizure. capitalism is all about respect for individual property rights. capitalists bought rights to resources and extract them for use on the market. the majority CAN compete, they are just fed a bunch of socialist garbage that tells them they cannot. capitalists value a free society where individuals pursue mutual self interest through voluntary exchange. everyone is greedy. but the capitalist channels the greed productively to help everyone.
so essentially marcos, like every other socialist, insists that everyone else is greedy for money and that he seeks only to care for people. those who do not admit their own capacity for material greed are capable of very dangerous things. take mexico out of the equation and see what happens in a purely EZLN run state without an antagonistic mexico to create internal solidarity nor subsidies from the outside. i'd fear for those natives of chiapas.
@chrispollock si quitas al mexico antagonista, tal ves no habia la necidad de crear algo como el EZLN, si hubiera un buen gobierno para que gritar o luchar y tal ves la lucha del EZLN ya esta perdida desde que nacio.
@vistritha exactly. without an antagonistic mexico or subsidies from the outside capitalist world, the EZLN would fall like a house of cards into poverty and the suppression of individual freedoms. after all, the Chiapan natives obey their councils, they have no rights under the EZLN to pursue their own individual self interests or do anything outside the approval of EZLN committees. it's too bad mexico is so against true free markets that would benefit chiapans.
@vistritha if you ask me, i think the chiapans would flourish if mexico subsidized some job training programs and business classes in chiapas and start educating the natives to participate in the global economy. it isn't the chiapans fault they are poor, they need education. but a socialist tribal govt. isn't going to create a modern chiapas without capitalist subsidies. you need markets to get necessary goods that aren't domestically produced.
@chrispollock lo que pasa es, si hay programas de subsidios para los indigenas, pero no los otorgan, el gobierno de mexico no trabaja como el americano donde si se ve que los impuestos trabajan, los organismos del poder son corruptos y los indigenas de chiapas es algunas de mas minorias mas olvidadas los programas existen pero no los hacen llegar y mexico tiene no solo ese problema, si no otros 50 mas, la corrupcion, el narcotrafico, un tratado de libre comercio.
@vistritha i understand that mexico is a very corrupt state. the national police take graft, the caretels do whatever the want, it's alot like a third world nation in terms of politics. capitalism is not evil, it's a just a free means of exchange, creates competition which creates lower prices and better quality goods and services. blame mexican government corruption and a lack of infrastructure spending in chiapas, but don't blame what is the best economic system on earth, capitalism.
@chrispollock capitalism creates greed and a system where people are made slaves of material objects, they will make a profit at all cost, it is a focus on yourself instead of the country as a whole
@stoplyinn greed exists in every system, so no, capitalism doesn't create it. it just creates a constructive channel for greed. greed is a human tendency. people are always slaves of material objects, that's called life. hunters and gatherers are bound by material needs. humans will make a profit at all costs, that is why people create better ways to do things rather than staying at inferior levels of production. people should focus on themselves, that's called individual freedom.
@chrispollock I understand what you are saying but I believe capitalism encourages and rewards greed and if people would think of the community as a whole the world would be a better place, because in order for an individual to benefit more than someone else they have to take it from somewhere, I think you know about scarcity
@stoplyinn capitalists do not take resources, they trade for resources. respect for individual rights and the right to trade resources with others is the hallmark of capitalism and unlike other systems, it works today pretty well despite corruption. it is the best of all imperfect systems. without capitalism, you have a system of forced labor, command based political systems and inefficient, wasteful economies. there is a reason the EZLN is poor. absence of free markets
@chrispollock wealthy people trade with other wealthy, with no respect for those who have no money, there is only respect for individual rights if the individual is rich as well, if it were respect for individual rights they wouldn't use their property as dumps and the state of Chiapas wouldn't spend more on tourism than on the actual citzens, oh and the reason the indigenous population of Chiapas is poor is because of 500 years of colonialism and the robbery of their resources
@stoplyinn incorrect. people trade with others and become wealthy doing so if they are supported by those who see value in what they trade. acctually in countries with capitalism you tend to have better civil rights for all people than in non capitalist countries. tourism fuels job creation, why are chiapans not participating in that industry and making money for themselves? no, the reason they are poor is because they are stuck in the past and worship a collectivized archaic society
@chrispollock what are you going to trade if you have nothing to trade? if you have nothing to trade you are of no value to capitalism, tourism takes money away from the citizens, all the potable water and the money go towards tourism, the indigenous is the one that suffers from tourism, that is why in every town with alot of tourism you can't leave the tourist areas because it is extremely poor, that's their culture it shouldn't be punished, I suggest you read Our Word is Our Weapon by Marcos
@stoplyinn you will trade your labor, because labor is capital and can be used to gather monetary capital over time. you have a marxist view of capitalism, in which workers are slaves and the wealthy have absolute power, untrue of course. tourism brings money to chiapas, all chiapans can benefit from this because tourism means new businesses they can run. the natives refuse to adapt to the freeing influence of the market economy and cling instead to collectivized poverty.
@chrispollock I hold the view of the people that have always been on the bottom, the ones that work for the wealthy all their lives and own nothing and die in the same economic system they were born to, you think they like being poor that's what they are fighting against, capitalism is the system that has taken them to this point, the only ones benefitting from tourism are the land owners while they pay the citizens slave wages
@stoplyinn in capitalism, the only ones on the bottom are those who do not try to create their own businesses or offer anything productive to society beyond their labor. there is nothing stopping chiapan natives from becoming business owners by pooling resources, learning skills from the tourist industry they work for and becoming the new generation of managers and owners that lead chiapas to new development and good quality of life. workers are limited by their skills, not capitalism itself.
@chrispollock there are business owners that are broke because of the large corporations that establish themselves in cities that are majority small business owners, and the corporations force the small businesses to go out of business, then they are only left out to work for those large corporations in order to survive, they can't create their own businesses if competition is eliminated by the large corporations
@stoplyinn first, corporations cannot force small businesses out of the market. they can only compete with small businesses. if consumers value the goods and services of corporations more than small businesses, then small businesses are failing the consumer and shouldn't be in the market anyway. second, working for a corporation and making your own money is better than living a life of tribal subsistence and poverty. third, why can't the chiapans start businesses in other industries?
@chrispollock they are forced out because they can't compeat with those big corporations, how can a small business compete with billion dollar corporations who offer the products of higher quality and lower prices, you can compeat if you have the money to compete with, like Target compeats with WalMart even though they are the same company, working for a corporation does not give you a chance to better your life especially if you're getting paid slave wages
@stoplyinn if they can't compete in an industry, then there's nothing wrong with them being outcompeted. the consumer shouldn't suffer so that chiapans can offer overpriced, lower quality goods. you can compete if you offer what consumers want, has nothing to do with money. working for a corporation is way better than living a life of tribal subsistence. they need to drop the tribal nonsense. because if they don't, and something happens to them, they'll ask capitalist nations to bail them out.
@chrispollock they are left poor because they can't compete with large corporations and left doing slave labor, it has everything with money, these billion dollar corporations have everything to compete with and the indigenous population have nothing, you can't out compete someone who can get anything at a lower price, and they should get bailed out by capitalists because they are the reason they are in their current situation,it creates wealth for a select few the rest are left get their scraps
@stoplyinn they don't have to do slave labor, they can set up businesses and attract tourist traffic just like other regions of mexico. the indigenous people do have something, it's called hard work and ingenuity. you CAN outcompete someone who offers lower prices, it's called offering better quality or appealing to peoples desire for something other than low prices. corporate bailouts is not capitalism, but even so, it doesn't prevent chiapans from competing in other industries.
@stoplyinn again you have these silly marxist notions about capitalism. you believe that poor people can never be successful and rich, which is false. you believe that value is related only to price, which is false. you believe that if a corporation dominates one industry then chiapans cannot compete in any other industry, which is false. you believe that corporations are untouchable and evil, which is also false.
@chrispollock it is the reality that millions at the bottom around the world live, I just believe if the money was more wide spread, the end of poverty starts with the end of the wealthy billionaires, nice dicussion made respect, you were very polite
@stoplyinn millions more would live in poverty without capitalism and the system of free exchange, economic efficiency and individual rights that capitalism brings. a system in which individuals freely trade with others in pursuit of their own self interest is always preferable to systems of command and collectivism. the rich are productive, creative people, that is why they are rich. they help everyone by creating businesses to employ people and provide tax money for the welfare state. bye.
@chrispollock you only deceive your self. look around, this country is in the political state you wish it to be but it's not improving and taking an economic slump. most rich people that are not productive and creative. i think we have enough rich people here but what the hell are they doing? it's only the gov't that's trying to address the problems.
@iganduyan07 rich people by definition are productive and creative, otherwise, no one would pay them tons of money for what they offer to the market. you obviously don't understand how markets operate and how profit is a reward for helping others get what they want. the rich are the foundation of our economy because most are business owners, leaders and invest in projects for the economy. your leftist jealousy of those more productive, intelligent and lucky then you is apparent.
@chrispollock look this rich people don't know anything about the law and it would be dangerous for a money-driven society. power can go to the wrong hands. somebody has to take control of them. i know about the market and what you and people like you don't know is where that money actually goes and what really is happening below. damn you materialist scumbag.
@iganduyan07 a money driven society is a free society. a society where each person has the freedom to rise or fall on his own merit, but that is freedom. the only alternative is a command society where freedom is limited and people are treated like children and rationed resources by the state. in a money driven society, everyone is free to pursue their own self interest. in a command society, that right is reserved for the leaders. markets would liberate the chiapans.
@chrispollock treated like children? at least they are all fed and all seen as equals. get real, you'll always see fat pigs in the newspaper. besides, no rich man would ever be willing to help other people as how you've described, otherwise they wouldn't be rich.
@iganduyan07 yes. they are taken care of by the EZLN, and so the EZLN runs their lives. the price of bread is freedom, in the chiapans case. the EZLN, in its tribalistic hatred of individual property rights, and the freedom it affords, aims to keep chiapans in a state of child like submission to the will of majoritarian councils. you would rather the chiapans be rationed bread and told what to do than be given the freedom to rise or fall on their own accord. shame.
@chrispollock in a command society, paramilitary formations, morals, nationalism and values are the ones that compensate lack of freedom. does that sound child-like to you? what's child like is playing around with money without minding other people though you hurt them.
@iganduyan07 denying individuals economic freedom, as in a command society, is to create a society of dependent, weak children, not strong, independent, innovative citizens. to earn your own money, make your economic decisions and own your own property are the epitome of adult behavior. are you claiming that military parades and nationalism are more valuable than individual freedom for citizens? if so, you have revealed your true contempt for the economic freedom of individual chiapans.
weak? worked out so well for the facsists who almost conquered the world, and you call that weak? capitalists are the weak ones, they can't live without money.
Respond to this video... the fascists almost won because of superior military and police state conscription. the individuals under the nazi regime received their daily rations and welfare from the state like sheep. this conditioned germans to become helpless without government support. in the usa, individuals were conditioned to become mature and responsible because the government did not subsidize their lives. self reliance makes you stronger.
@chrispollock no they won because they are the only who could address the social distress. that's what favors dictators. of course, capitalism teaches you how to be independent but that jst means you'll feed into other men, step on them. to give everyone freedom is like unleashing a mass of criminals, some people didn't even have the chance to rise up while some people don't need to because they are born in the higher rung of the social ladder. capitalists can't provide enough
@iganduyan07 in capitalism, people offer things of value to others to make profit and rise on merit and ability. in non capitalist societies, the leadership decides every facet of your life and denies you economic freedom and opportunity. all leftist attempts to create non capitalist societies have ended in misery and oppression. you, and all supporters of the EZLN, are morally bankrupt and would rather see chiapans work like dogs in a field for a tribal council than be free.
@chrispollock good theory, let's get back then to the video. why did the EZLN arose huh? chiapans were abused by capitalists. they were given no work because they are not fit to because they have no education. and they have no education because they have no work and they can't afford it even the medical bills. command society will make them work and protect their community, individualism is not practical here. their service is the only capital they have.
@iganduyan07 chiapans were not abused, they were introduced to the real world of the market in which they had few skills. so they needed to learn and rise in the ranks of the capitalist market by starting at the bottom. they got frustrated with this and instead of just working hard to become capitalists themselves, they ran the other way like children and asked their tribal councils to look after them like sheep. a capitalist society requires hard work. command society requires slavery.
@chrispollock and i'm more of the extreme right, which does not only protect workers but also culture. worked out so well for the nazis even at the height of the great depression, they are an envy to the world.
@iganduyan07 well either you are a troll, or you are an extreme right fascist, the equally dangerous polar opposite of the extreme left socialist or statist. in non capitalist societies, workers are not free to interact with each other economically; workers are under the boot of state leadership interests and have no economic lives of their own. case closed. bye.
@chrispollock en un mundo globalisado un campesino indigena no puede competir, no tiene los recursos tanto humanos como materiales, y si a bienes te refieres para el desarrollo, a que bienes te refieres? son en verdad necesarios? y un chiapas moderno? what is a moderm chiapas for you mi friend? a chiapas whit celphones, whit higways? is against that idea of neoliberalism, sorry for my inglish is so bad.
@vistritha see that's where your wrong. capitalism is about values and exchange. and value is subjective. if monsanto can produce cheaper veggies, then chiapans can do two possible things. either produce crops in a different way that takes advantage of corporate weaknesses (like a lack of quality, for example) or offer fair trade crops. OR the chiapans could pursue a new industry, like tourism or even a chiapan security company to guard mexican businesses from cartels.
@vistritha yes private property is necessary, otherwise, you have no individual freedoms. i personally wouldn't want a council running my personal life, i don't think they'd prefer it either. the idea is to create self sufficient, independent individuals who can use their resources freely. a modern chiapas would have modern public facilities, highways, parks, small businesses, modern hospitals, cell phone and internet access etc. neoliberalism is a leftist term. i prefer the term free trade.
@vistritha what happened to the soviet union? they had councils once, too, the "soviets". but modernization was needed to raise standard of living. and without free trade to do that, the dictatorship was formed to do it in a centralized way. marcos says it himself. the chiapans are poor, uneducated natives in a pre industrial society. if you allow markets, you create modernization through voluntary effort. yes you give up native identity, but you also give up bad harvests.
@syzygy58 I AGREE (dlacaden) is a great commentor and highly ranked and regarded commentor here on Loyalist based videos. He has many righteous comments and Pro Philippines and Pro Rise and Pro Advancement of Philippine Govt. Politics, Technology, & Economics. Also his insight on how Philipines should be run according to F.M. laws after Martial Law are adherent for a New Society which all Filipinos should strive for. To bad the few who decended on edsa86 were fooled & 2day we are worse off.
@syzygy58 YES I LIKE MARCOS THANKS FOR VOTING FOR HIM YOU KNOW WHO IS BETTER, THANK GOD YOU DIDNT VOTE FOR HIS SON, AND I ALSO LIKE HOW THE MEDIA DURING HIS CAMPAIGN MADE HIM HAVE A GIRLFRIEND WE ALL KNOW IT WAS FAKE BUT MADE HIM LOOK OR 2FOOL THE PEOPLE WAS NOT A HOMOSEXUAL GAY, BUT AFTER HE WON THEY CONVENIENTLY BROKE UP ANOTHER LIE AND PROPAGANDA, HE WAS A USELESS SENATOR HE NEVER ONCE WROTE,AUTHORED OR PASSED 1BILL, YET HE BECAME A PRESIDENT,AFTER F.M. WE SURELY FORGET HOW 2 CHOOSE LEADERS!
@syzygy58 who the fuck are you NINOYAQUINOTV also known as Bayagg and blavat666 <---Fake accounts and why do you call the PHILIPPINE PEOPLE BASURA WHY DONT YOU LOOK IN THE MIRROR BEFORE YOU MAKE STATEMENTS ABOUT YOUR OWN PEOPLE. SEE IT IS COCK ROACHES LIKE YOU WHO GIVE THE FILIPINOS AROUND THE WORLD A BAD NAME, AT LEAST US THE PHILIPPINE LOYALISTS ARE CONSISTENT WE ONLY DONT LIKE TERRORISTS, NPA COMUNISTAS, RADICALS, OPPOSITIONISTS, RAPISTS AND MURDERS AND MOST OF ALL AQUINO FANS, PUTA LIARS !
there is a canadian here by the name of syzygy58 she is a communista rebel from mindinao, please delete all her posts she is again a communist against the free trade embargo and is not into fairness, she is a communista nang putang anak!
Stupid of you that you viewed this video thinking it is a tribute to your thieving - FERDINAND MARCOS ? (Señores, FERDINAND MARCOS - ex presidente de Filipinas. Por favor, acepte mis disculpas por el comportamiento dlacaden)
OMG! You are really hard-up for other paeans for your failed hero!
Tsk, tsk! Too bad eh, shows how STUPID YOU REALLY ARE!
NAKAKAHIYA KA! HWAG KA NANG BUMISITA DITO SA VIDEONG ITO! ENTIENDES ?
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Check out the background of the Zaptista Movement...it is not from the original Emiliano Zapata...it's a marxist anarchist group dreamed up from outside and brought in through Chihuahua and liberation theology manipulations... propaganda. What kind of voice shuts down schools and forbids it's people to vote? Worldwide propaganda...not indigena oriented...just using the poor for propaganda purposes.
Under the Zapatista government biligual schools were close, Indigenas told not to vote leaving them without a political voice, and land seized & confiscated left to sit useless.Zapatisitas insist that the government consider them as auctonomous, but also insist on welfare type aid, instead of developing ways improve the lot of its people. Marcos is not an Indigena, but mestizo Mexican, an ex university professor experienced in marxist causes. "His" Indigenas are a very useful propaganda tool.
I've lived in Mexico 20 years, have been watching this develop over the years, and the last 5 years have been working with Indigena groupos in Chiapas...I have been in and out of there and have contact with the communities. As for Marcos it's common knowledge since the first few years of his official appearance.
Really!!! Pleas o pleas tell me how we can help the indigenas. I live in California but I still badly want to help, I just dont know how. Pleas reply!!!!
As for the telling the indigenas not to vote, it was not a secret...it was like a political statement that they were not pleased with the party candidates offered. <turned out that PRI won and they ended up with even less representation then they had had before.
I love how whenever someone stands up and says the system is rigged the immediate response is 'get a job commie.'
Rhialt0 2 months ago
i don't think you even watched the video. that masked man is trying to say that the capitalist just seized the products of their land and then eventually the land itself giving them nothing in exchange, not even education. you should take note that majority of the people can't compete. capitalist value everything in this world based on a price tag.
iganduyan07 7 months ago
@iganduyan07 there was no seizure. capitalism is all about respect for individual property rights. capitalists bought rights to resources and extract them for use on the market. the majority CAN compete, they are just fed a bunch of socialist garbage that tells them they cannot. capitalists value a free society where individuals pursue mutual self interest through voluntary exchange. everyone is greedy. but the capitalist channels the greed productively to help everyone.
chrispollock 6 months ago
so essentially marcos, like every other socialist, insists that everyone else is greedy for money and that he seeks only to care for people. those who do not admit their own capacity for material greed are capable of very dangerous things. take mexico out of the equation and see what happens in a purely EZLN run state without an antagonistic mexico to create internal solidarity nor subsidies from the outside. i'd fear for those natives of chiapas.
chrispollock 11 months ago
@chrispollock si quitas al mexico antagonista, tal ves no habia la necidad de crear algo como el EZLN, si hubiera un buen gobierno para que gritar o luchar y tal ves la lucha del EZLN ya esta perdida desde que nacio.
vistritha 11 months ago
@vistritha exactly. without an antagonistic mexico or subsidies from the outside capitalist world, the EZLN would fall like a house of cards into poverty and the suppression of individual freedoms. after all, the Chiapan natives obey their councils, they have no rights under the EZLN to pursue their own individual self interests or do anything outside the approval of EZLN committees. it's too bad mexico is so against true free markets that would benefit chiapans.
chrispollock 11 months ago
@chrispollock, mira mano. cuales mercados fuera de chiapas, si mexico no tiene mercado interno.
los de chiapas solo gritan o gritaron una relalidad, ahora como dices, ya viven de subcidios del exterior, o investiga acerca de los caracoles.
vistritha 11 months ago
@vistritha if you ask me, i think the chiapans would flourish if mexico subsidized some job training programs and business classes in chiapas and start educating the natives to participate in the global economy. it isn't the chiapans fault they are poor, they need education. but a socialist tribal govt. isn't going to create a modern chiapas without capitalist subsidies. you need markets to get necessary goods that aren't domestically produced.
chrispollock 11 months ago
@chrispollock lo que pasa es, si hay programas de subsidios para los indigenas, pero no los otorgan, el gobierno de mexico no trabaja como el americano donde si se ve que los impuestos trabajan, los organismos del poder son corruptos y los indigenas de chiapas es algunas de mas minorias mas olvidadas los programas existen pero no los hacen llegar y mexico tiene no solo ese problema, si no otros 50 mas, la corrupcion, el narcotrafico, un tratado de libre comercio.
vistritha 11 months ago
@vistritha i understand that mexico is a very corrupt state. the national police take graft, the caretels do whatever the want, it's alot like a third world nation in terms of politics. capitalism is not evil, it's a just a free means of exchange, creates competition which creates lower prices and better quality goods and services. blame mexican government corruption and a lack of infrastructure spending in chiapas, but don't blame what is the best economic system on earth, capitalism.
chrispollock 11 months ago
@chrispollock capitalism creates greed and a system where people are made slaves of material objects, they will make a profit at all cost, it is a focus on yourself instead of the country as a whole
stoplyinn 9 months ago
@stoplyinn greed exists in every system, so no, capitalism doesn't create it. it just creates a constructive channel for greed. greed is a human tendency. people are always slaves of material objects, that's called life. hunters and gatherers are bound by material needs. humans will make a profit at all costs, that is why people create better ways to do things rather than staying at inferior levels of production. people should focus on themselves, that's called individual freedom.
chrispollock 9 months ago
@chrispollock I understand what you are saying but I believe capitalism encourages and rewards greed and if people would think of the community as a whole the world would be a better place, because in order for an individual to benefit more than someone else they have to take it from somewhere, I think you know about scarcity
stoplyinn 9 months ago
@stoplyinn capitalists do not take resources, they trade for resources. respect for individual rights and the right to trade resources with others is the hallmark of capitalism and unlike other systems, it works today pretty well despite corruption. it is the best of all imperfect systems. without capitalism, you have a system of forced labor, command based political systems and inefficient, wasteful economies. there is a reason the EZLN is poor. absence of free markets
chrispollock 9 months ago
@chrispollock wealthy people trade with other wealthy, with no respect for those who have no money, there is only respect for individual rights if the individual is rich as well, if it were respect for individual rights they wouldn't use their property as dumps and the state of Chiapas wouldn't spend more on tourism than on the actual citzens, oh and the reason the indigenous population of Chiapas is poor is because of 500 years of colonialism and the robbery of their resources
stoplyinn 9 months ago
@stoplyinn incorrect. people trade with others and become wealthy doing so if they are supported by those who see value in what they trade. acctually in countries with capitalism you tend to have better civil rights for all people than in non capitalist countries. tourism fuels job creation, why are chiapans not participating in that industry and making money for themselves? no, the reason they are poor is because they are stuck in the past and worship a collectivized archaic society
chrispollock 9 months ago
@chrispollock what are you going to trade if you have nothing to trade? if you have nothing to trade you are of no value to capitalism, tourism takes money away from the citizens, all the potable water and the money go towards tourism, the indigenous is the one that suffers from tourism, that is why in every town with alot of tourism you can't leave the tourist areas because it is extremely poor, that's their culture it shouldn't be punished, I suggest you read Our Word is Our Weapon by Marcos
stoplyinn 9 months ago
@stoplyinn you will trade your labor, because labor is capital and can be used to gather monetary capital over time. you have a marxist view of capitalism, in which workers are slaves and the wealthy have absolute power, untrue of course. tourism brings money to chiapas, all chiapans can benefit from this because tourism means new businesses they can run. the natives refuse to adapt to the freeing influence of the market economy and cling instead to collectivized poverty.
chrispollock 9 months ago
@chrispollock I hold the view of the people that have always been on the bottom, the ones that work for the wealthy all their lives and own nothing and die in the same economic system they were born to, you think they like being poor that's what they are fighting against, capitalism is the system that has taken them to this point, the only ones benefitting from tourism are the land owners while they pay the citizens slave wages
stoplyinn 8 months ago
@stoplyinn in capitalism, the only ones on the bottom are those who do not try to create their own businesses or offer anything productive to society beyond their labor. there is nothing stopping chiapan natives from becoming business owners by pooling resources, learning skills from the tourist industry they work for and becoming the new generation of managers and owners that lead chiapas to new development and good quality of life. workers are limited by their skills, not capitalism itself.
chrispollock 8 months ago
@chrispollock there are business owners that are broke because of the large corporations that establish themselves in cities that are majority small business owners, and the corporations force the small businesses to go out of business, then they are only left out to work for those large corporations in order to survive, they can't create their own businesses if competition is eliminated by the large corporations
stoplyinn 8 months ago
@stoplyinn first, corporations cannot force small businesses out of the market. they can only compete with small businesses. if consumers value the goods and services of corporations more than small businesses, then small businesses are failing the consumer and shouldn't be in the market anyway. second, working for a corporation and making your own money is better than living a life of tribal subsistence and poverty. third, why can't the chiapans start businesses in other industries?
chrispollock 8 months ago
@chrispollock they are forced out because they can't compeat with those big corporations, how can a small business compete with billion dollar corporations who offer the products of higher quality and lower prices, you can compeat if you have the money to compete with, like Target compeats with WalMart even though they are the same company, working for a corporation does not give you a chance to better your life especially if you're getting paid slave wages
stoplyinn 8 months ago
@stoplyinn if they can't compete in an industry, then there's nothing wrong with them being outcompeted. the consumer shouldn't suffer so that chiapans can offer overpriced, lower quality goods. you can compete if you offer what consumers want, has nothing to do with money. working for a corporation is way better than living a life of tribal subsistence. they need to drop the tribal nonsense. because if they don't, and something happens to them, they'll ask capitalist nations to bail them out.
chrispollock 8 months ago
@chrispollock they are left poor because they can't compete with large corporations and left doing slave labor, it has everything with money, these billion dollar corporations have everything to compete with and the indigenous population have nothing, you can't out compete someone who can get anything at a lower price, and they should get bailed out by capitalists because they are the reason they are in their current situation,it creates wealth for a select few the rest are left get their scraps
stoplyinn 8 months ago
@stoplyinn they don't have to do slave labor, they can set up businesses and attract tourist traffic just like other regions of mexico. the indigenous people do have something, it's called hard work and ingenuity. you CAN outcompete someone who offers lower prices, it's called offering better quality or appealing to peoples desire for something other than low prices. corporate bailouts is not capitalism, but even so, it doesn't prevent chiapans from competing in other industries.
chrispollock 8 months ago
@stoplyinn again you have these silly marxist notions about capitalism. you believe that poor people can never be successful and rich, which is false. you believe that value is related only to price, which is false. you believe that if a corporation dominates one industry then chiapans cannot compete in any other industry, which is false. you believe that corporations are untouchable and evil, which is also false.
chrispollock 8 months ago
@chrispollock it is the reality that millions at the bottom around the world live, I just believe if the money was more wide spread, the end of poverty starts with the end of the wealthy billionaires, nice dicussion made respect, you were very polite
stoplyinn 8 months ago
@stoplyinn millions more would live in poverty without capitalism and the system of free exchange, economic efficiency and individual rights that capitalism brings. a system in which individuals freely trade with others in pursuit of their own self interest is always preferable to systems of command and collectivism. the rich are productive, creative people, that is why they are rich. they help everyone by creating businesses to employ people and provide tax money for the welfare state. bye.
chrispollock 8 months ago
@chrispollock you only deceive your self. look around, this country is in the political state you wish it to be but it's not improving and taking an economic slump. most rich people that are not productive and creative. i think we have enough rich people here but what the hell are they doing? it's only the gov't that's trying to address the problems.
iganduyan07 7 months ago
@iganduyan07 rich people by definition are productive and creative, otherwise, no one would pay them tons of money for what they offer to the market. you obviously don't understand how markets operate and how profit is a reward for helping others get what they want. the rich are the foundation of our economy because most are business owners, leaders and invest in projects for the economy. your leftist jealousy of those more productive, intelligent and lucky then you is apparent.
chrispollock 6 months ago
@chrispollock look this rich people don't know anything about the law and it would be dangerous for a money-driven society. power can go to the wrong hands. somebody has to take control of them. i know about the market and what you and people like you don't know is where that money actually goes and what really is happening below. damn you materialist scumbag.
iganduyan07 6 months ago
@iganduyan07 a money driven society is a free society. a society where each person has the freedom to rise or fall on his own merit, but that is freedom. the only alternative is a command society where freedom is limited and people are treated like children and rationed resources by the state. in a money driven society, everyone is free to pursue their own self interest. in a command society, that right is reserved for the leaders. markets would liberate the chiapans.
chrispollock 6 months ago
@chrispollock treated like children? at least they are all fed and all seen as equals. get real, you'll always see fat pigs in the newspaper. besides, no rich man would ever be willing to help other people as how you've described, otherwise they wouldn't be rich.
iganduyan07 6 months ago
@iganduyan07 yes. they are taken care of by the EZLN, and so the EZLN runs their lives. the price of bread is freedom, in the chiapans case. the EZLN, in its tribalistic hatred of individual property rights, and the freedom it affords, aims to keep chiapans in a state of child like submission to the will of majoritarian councils. you would rather the chiapans be rationed bread and told what to do than be given the freedom to rise or fall on their own accord. shame.
chrispollock 6 months ago
@chrispollock in a command society, paramilitary formations, morals, nationalism and values are the ones that compensate lack of freedom. does that sound child-like to you? what's child like is playing around with money without minding other people though you hurt them.
iganduyan07 6 months ago
@iganduyan07 denying individuals economic freedom, as in a command society, is to create a society of dependent, weak children, not strong, independent, innovative citizens. to earn your own money, make your economic decisions and own your own property are the epitome of adult behavior. are you claiming that military parades and nationalism are more valuable than individual freedom for citizens? if so, you have revealed your true contempt for the economic freedom of individual chiapans.
chrispollock 6 months ago
weak? worked out so well for the facsists who almost conquered the world, and you call that weak? capitalists are the weak ones, they can't live without money.
iganduyan07 6 months ago
Respond to this video... the fascists almost won because of superior military and police state conscription. the individuals under the nazi regime received their daily rations and welfare from the state like sheep. this conditioned germans to become helpless without government support. in the usa, individuals were conditioned to become mature and responsible because the government did not subsidize their lives. self reliance makes you stronger.
chrispollock 6 months ago
@chrispollock no they won because they are the only who could address the social distress. that's what favors dictators. of course, capitalism teaches you how to be independent but that jst means you'll feed into other men, step on them. to give everyone freedom is like unleashing a mass of criminals, some people didn't even have the chance to rise up while some people don't need to because they are born in the higher rung of the social ladder. capitalists can't provide enough
iganduyan07 6 months ago
in capitalism people step on each other to rise up. some didn't even have the chance to rise up. now tell me if you deserve to be free.
iganduyan07 6 months ago
@iganduyan07 in capitalism, people offer things of value to others to make profit and rise on merit and ability. in non capitalist societies, the leadership decides every facet of your life and denies you economic freedom and opportunity. all leftist attempts to create non capitalist societies have ended in misery and oppression. you, and all supporters of the EZLN, are morally bankrupt and would rather see chiapans work like dogs in a field for a tribal council than be free.
chrispollock 6 months ago
@chrispollock good theory, let's get back then to the video. why did the EZLN arose huh? chiapans were abused by capitalists. they were given no work because they are not fit to because they have no education. and they have no education because they have no work and they can't afford it even the medical bills. command society will make them work and protect their community, individualism is not practical here. their service is the only capital they have.
iganduyan07 6 months ago
@iganduyan07 chiapans were not abused, they were introduced to the real world of the market in which they had few skills. so they needed to learn and rise in the ranks of the capitalist market by starting at the bottom. they got frustrated with this and instead of just working hard to become capitalists themselves, they ran the other way like children and asked their tribal councils to look after them like sheep. a capitalist society requires hard work. command society requires slavery.
chrispollock 6 months ago
@chrispollock and i'm more of the extreme right, which does not only protect workers but also culture. worked out so well for the nazis even at the height of the great depression, they are an envy to the world.
iganduyan07 6 months ago
@iganduyan07 well either you are a troll, or you are an extreme right fascist, the equally dangerous polar opposite of the extreme left socialist or statist. in non capitalist societies, workers are not free to interact with each other economically; workers are under the boot of state leadership interests and have no economic lives of their own. case closed. bye.
chrispollock 6 months ago
@chrispollock en un mundo globalisado un campesino indigena no puede competir, no tiene los recursos tanto humanos como materiales, y si a bienes te refieres para el desarrollo, a que bienes te refieres? son en verdad necesarios? y un chiapas moderno? what is a moderm chiapas for you mi friend? a chiapas whit celphones, whit higways? is against that idea of neoliberalism, sorry for my inglish is so bad.
Un saludo desde mexico. Hi from mexico.
vistritha 11 months ago
@vistritha see that's where your wrong. capitalism is about values and exchange. and value is subjective. if monsanto can produce cheaper veggies, then chiapans can do two possible things. either produce crops in a different way that takes advantage of corporate weaknesses (like a lack of quality, for example) or offer fair trade crops. OR the chiapans could pursue a new industry, like tourism or even a chiapan security company to guard mexican businesses from cartels.
chrispollock 11 months ago
@vistritha yes private property is necessary, otherwise, you have no individual freedoms. i personally wouldn't want a council running my personal life, i don't think they'd prefer it either. the idea is to create self sufficient, independent individuals who can use their resources freely. a modern chiapas would have modern public facilities, highways, parks, small businesses, modern hospitals, cell phone and internet access etc. neoliberalism is a leftist term. i prefer the term free trade.
chrispollock 11 months ago
@vistritha what happened to the soviet union? they had councils once, too, the "soviets". but modernization was needed to raise standard of living. and without free trade to do that, the dictatorship was formed to do it in a centralized way. marcos says it himself. the chiapans are poor, uneducated natives in a pre industrial society. if you allow markets, you create modernization through voluntary effort. yes you give up native identity, but you also give up bad harvests.
chrispollock 11 months ago
@Aquinoisabitch,
yes i think syzygy58, needs medical help
mostly from a doctor specializing in the head!
she most def. doesnt know her ass from her head or her dad and a ape!
zeppaify 1 year ago
@syzygy58 I AGREE (dlacaden) is a great commentor and highly ranked and regarded commentor here on Loyalist based videos. He has many righteous comments and Pro Philippines and Pro Rise and Pro Advancement of Philippine Govt. Politics, Technology, & Economics. Also his insight on how Philipines should be run according to F.M. laws after Martial Law are adherent for a New Society which all Filipinos should strive for. To bad the few who decended on edsa86 were fooled & 2day we are worse off.
zeppaify 1 year ago
@syzygy58 YES I LIKE MARCOS THANKS FOR VOTING FOR HIM YOU KNOW WHO IS BETTER, THANK GOD YOU DIDNT VOTE FOR HIS SON, AND I ALSO LIKE HOW THE MEDIA DURING HIS CAMPAIGN MADE HIM HAVE A GIRLFRIEND WE ALL KNOW IT WAS FAKE BUT MADE HIM LOOK OR 2FOOL THE PEOPLE WAS NOT A HOMOSEXUAL GAY, BUT AFTER HE WON THEY CONVENIENTLY BROKE UP ANOTHER LIE AND PROPAGANDA, HE WAS A USELESS SENATOR HE NEVER ONCE WROTE,AUTHORED OR PASSED 1BILL, YET HE BECAME A PRESIDENT,AFTER F.M. WE SURELY FORGET HOW 2 CHOOSE LEADERS!
zeppaify 1 year ago
@syzygy58 who the fuck are you NINOYAQUINOTV also known as Bayagg and blavat666 <---Fake accounts and why do you call the PHILIPPINE PEOPLE BASURA WHY DONT YOU LOOK IN THE MIRROR BEFORE YOU MAKE STATEMENTS ABOUT YOUR OWN PEOPLE. SEE IT IS COCK ROACHES LIKE YOU WHO GIVE THE FILIPINOS AROUND THE WORLD A BAD NAME, AT LEAST US THE PHILIPPINE LOYALISTS ARE CONSISTENT WE ONLY DONT LIKE TERRORISTS, NPA COMUNISTAS, RADICALS, OPPOSITIONISTS, RAPISTS AND MURDERS AND MOST OF ALL AQUINO FANS, PUTA LIARS !
zeppaify 1 year ago
pinche Poeta, ^Se mama... la manera de decir las cosas, que barbaro... mis respetos señor Subcomandante
Para todos luz
Para todos todo
Para nosotros la alegre rebeldía
Para nosotros nada...
Viva el EZLN!
Adelante Valiente!
maribeel91 1 year ago
mabuhay ka marcos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lordon18 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
vote vong vong ang ilocanong vacla na mahilig tsumupa,, BWA HA HA HA HA!
gIennmart07 1 year ago
kamusta my fellow lations,
there is a canadian here by the name of syzygy58 she is a communista rebel from mindinao, please delete all her posts she is again a communist against the free trade embargo and is not into fairness, she is a communista nang putang anak!
syzygy588 2 years ago
A communista rebel? She sounds sexy!!
PTS82 1 year ago
@syzygy588 who the f**k you are DLACADEN (AKA SYZYGY588) <-- FAKE ACCOUNT
DEMANDING THAT MY REACTION SHD BE ERASED EH? WHAT A SHAME, YOU DON'T WANT THEM TO KNOW WHO YOU REALLY ARE? AND THE GARBAGE YOU USUALLY DISH OUT?
DLACADEN = SYZYGY588 = LIAR! LIAR! LIAR!
syzygy58 1 year ago
holy shit its the idiot from canada-
putang ina gago ka!
your dead hero yet you still come here and try to find me to destroy me you puta syzygy58 get your head out your ass and stop spoofing me your retard
syzygy588 2 years ago
malditos gringos mueranse
perros malditos
desde chiapas mis maldiciones a los gringos pendejos
ERROR1hack 2 years ago
Anybody posting with this account - SYZYGY588 is a SPOOF ACCOUNT MIMICKING MY ORIGINAL ACCOUNT (SYZYGY58).
ANY COMMENT OR POSTS HERE MADE BY THAT SPOOFED ACCOUNT WILL NOT BE MY RESPONSIBILITY FOR ALL LEGAL INTENT!
PLEASE BE AWARE!
syzygy58 2 years ago
Los Yanquis son culpables de la desgracia indigena...
El que crea que es la culpa del mestizo merece estudiar un poco de historia mundial y Mexicana.
178683 2 years ago
Un gobierno que no es capaz de dar justicia para los Indigenas es un gobierno que merece morir...
178683 2 years ago
Viva Marcos!
Viva el Pueblo!
Mueran los traidores!
178683 2 years ago
hi hello it is good to hear all of this
syzygy588 2 years ago
@syzygy588
Hey syzygy588 (aka DLACADEN)
Stupid of you that you viewed this video thinking it is a tribute to your thieving - FERDINAND MARCOS ? (Señores, FERDINAND MARCOS - ex presidente de Filipinas. Por favor, acepte mis disculpas por el comportamiento dlacaden)
OMG! You are really hard-up for other paeans for your failed hero!
Tsk, tsk! Too bad eh, shows how STUPID YOU REALLY ARE!
NAKAKAHIYA KA! HWAG KA NANG BUMISITA DITO SA VIDEONG ITO! ENTIENDES ?
syzygy58 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Check out the background of the Zaptista Movement...it is not from the original Emiliano Zapata...it's a marxist anarchist group dreamed up from outside and brought in through Chihuahua and liberation theology manipulations... propaganda. What kind of voice shuts down schools and forbids it's people to vote? Worldwide propaganda...not indigena oriented...just using the poor for propaganda purposes.
avoiceforothers 2 years ago
Shuts down schools? Could you point me towards a source that gives info about this?
CivilianZero 2 years ago
Que sátira tan mas absurda.
Aunque es buena.
polilite 2 years ago
¿De que demonios hablas?.
Puras estupideces estas hablando.
Que tiene que ver la historia, del libro canónico judío, con esto.
Dame un explicación.
polilite 2 years ago
Under the Zapatista government biligual schools were close, Indigenas told not to vote leaving them without a political voice, and land seized & confiscated left to sit useless.Zapatisitas insist that the government consider them as auctonomous, but also insist on welfare type aid, instead of developing ways improve the lot of its people. Marcos is not an Indigena, but mestizo Mexican, an ex university professor experienced in marxist causes. "His" Indigenas are a very useful propaganda tool.
avoiceforothers 3 years ago
how do u know this?
surcalifas562 3 years ago
I've lived in Mexico 20 years, have been watching this develop over the years, and the last 5 years have been working with Indigena groupos in Chiapas...I have been in and out of there and have contact with the communities. As for Marcos it's common knowledge since the first few years of his official appearance.
avoiceforothers 3 years ago
Really!!! Pleas o pleas tell me how we can help the indigenas. I live in California but I still badly want to help, I just dont know how. Pleas reply!!!!
disayen 2 years ago
As for the telling the indigenas not to vote, it was not a secret...it was like a political statement that they were not pleased with the party candidates offered. <turned out that PRI won and they ended up with even less representation then they had had before.
avoiceforothers 3 years ago
Viva EZLN!
Creo que ahora es el mejor tiempo que nunca! La crisis actual es ejemplo muy claro de los defectos inherentes del capitalismo!
Por fin puedo decir que el capitalismo terminaría en cualquier momento!
DNchap1417 3 years ago
Vamos!
Por la Victoria Siempre Camaradas
VIVA LA EZLN!!
QuickChesse 3 years ago 4
Grandisimo nuestro comandante!
legolds 3 years ago 2
VIVA EZLN!! siempre camia el revolucion!!
pitote89 3 years ago 2
ONORE A TE SUBCOMANDANTE
vsv23te 3 years ago
hasta la vitoria siempre hasta siempre y adelante hasta la victoria siempre hasta siempre comandante
1anatnom1 4 years ago
Fight capitalism!
Viva EZLN!
Pockenpest 4 years ago 8