God exists, that's the accepted claim by the majority of people, you want to challenge that, bring the evidence, the burden of proof is on YOU. Some narrow minded atheist proposed the wrong notion that atheism doesn't require evidence and many gullible atheists had run to foolishly embrace it. Philosophically the burden of proof is in the argument challenging the establishment. What evidence you have that atheism is true? None, zero, nada. Open your eyes, you're being deceived by an evil cult.
@dejesusluisx science isn't a popular vote. Just because the majority of humans claim to believe in a god, doesn't shift the burden of proof. If you claim a god exists you have to provide evidence to substantiate that claim for it to be an accepted scientific claim. Most atheists adopt scientific thinking as it is the most effective method to discovering truth and fact opposed to fiction and fantasy like you run on.
@youbetzler The God question is not a question for science, is a question for theology, science is concerned by the "how God did it" question, not by the "did God did it" question. You can easily assume God did it and continue your scientific quest to understand the mechanisms and God given laws for all creation. Thousands of scientists, myself included, don't find any conflict between science and religion. If anything, it helps us persevere.
@dejesusluisx you can easily assume god did it and you can easily be wrong. The Claim God Exists, is a scientific claim, much like were i to say Bigfoot exists or the Tooth Fairy exists. Were i to make such a claim the onus is not on you to prove me wrong, it is on me to substantiate my claim with evidence. Simple as that. If you think otherwise you are delusional and irrational.
@youbetzler ""The Claim God Exists, is a scientific claim"" no, is a philosophical/theological claim, and a also a faith claim, and faith argument doesn't require evidence. Now is you claim that is false, you are either making a faith claim too or you need evidence to back your claims, get it?
@dejesusluisx To claim something exists is a scientific claim, you don't get to make a claim and then decide how it is categorised. I'm not claiming it's false, i'm simply rejecting your claim based on lack of evidence. I don't need evidence to back my claims because i am in the default position. If someone is accused of commiting a crime and there is no evidence to suggest they committed the crime they are not guilty by default. They don't have to prove their innocence
@youbetzler The accepted knowledge always stands until the new knowledge is proven. In the 16 century Galileo had to prove the heliocentric theory vs. the geocentric dogma of the time. He didn’t said: “you are all wrong, prove the geocentric theory is right”. He got the data and presented his case. Doesn’t matter how much evidence or none the establishment has, the accepted knowledge stands and it doesn’t have to bring data forth because it's already accepted, atheists claims need it
@dejesusluisx The accepted knowledge from the first humans was that there is NO god. The god hypothesis was proclaimed not proven and just accepted by a bunch of goat herding morons from the bronze age. That does not make it the accepted knowledge. The original position was no god exists, you are born an atheist so you have to establish proof and evidence to change that position justifiably.
@youbetzler ""That does not make it the accepted knowledge"" I don't know in your country, but in mine, 80% say it is.
""you are born an atheist"" no, atheism is a conscious decision, where a choice is presented, is not a default for anything. We are born ignorant, not atheist, and we baptize our babies to make sure they are the property of the Lord.
@dejesusluisx 5000 years ago most people believed that the egyptian gods existed, or the Grecian gods existed. No one EVER proved Zues doesn't exist, or Rah, or Apophis, or Thor. They simply replaced it with an updated fairy tale. The default position is nothing exists till we can prove it exists, not everything exists till we prove it doesn't. That's the way it is, you're only arguing this irrational burden of proof stance because you KNOW you cannot prove a god exists.
@youbetzler "No one EVER proved Zues doesn't exist, or Rah, or Apophis, or Thor." One more time you support my point. Someone got the evidence and presented a better case, atheists need to get the evidence and present their case, so far, the explanation that God create the universe is the best one. Give me your reasons to say atheism is true, or provide evidence God isn't real, or find a logical contradiction for the existence of a conscious creator, or at least good argument!!!
@dejesusluisx "what evidence you have that atheism is true?"
There is no truth/non truth to atheism. Atheism is a lack of belief in a god. You claim there is a god and i don't believe you because there is no evidence. I don't have to justify my position of skepticism because i am not making any claims, just rejecting your claim to the existence of a god.
@youbetzler Atheists also make positive claims. They claim theists are deluded, that the Bible is a fairy tale and that God doesn't exist. These claims also required evidence to be proven otherwise they turn into faith claims. Do you like to be part of a cult? If not, then get the evidence or get out. If your atheism isn't based on evidence you're just changing one religion for another.
@dejesusluisx Please explain how atheism is a religion? That's like saying bald is a hair colour.
Atheism is based on lack of evidence. I'm also an Atooth fairies, and Abigfootist, and Asantaist. Do i need evidence to support my non belief in the tooth fairy? no.
Those claims are made by individuals, you cannot attack atheism based on the opinions of individuals. If i say you are deluded that is my personal opinion not an atheism doctrine there is no atheist doctrine just disbelief
@youbetzler ""Those claims are made by individuals"" those individuals are the face of atheism, they are the most prominent and outspoken atheists. Is as if Tom Cruise would make a claim about Scientology, everyone will take it as a reflection of all the members beliefs. So, if you don't like it, don't say you're an atheist, say you're agnostic.
@dejesusluisx atheist and agnostic are not different. Learn the meaning of the words and maybe you'll stop being a dumbass. Agnost means without knowledge, atheist means without belief. I'm an agnostic atheist, just like every other atheist.
2."The doctrine that there is no God or gods" Answers
3."the doctrine or belief that there is no God" Dictionary
4."Godlessness; immorality" American Heritage dictionary
So, atheism is the wicked and immoral doctrine or belief that there is no God. A belief not based on evidence is a faith belief by definition, and an organized faith is a religion or a cult. Therefore atheism is a cult. Open your eyes, cult member...
@dejesusluisx i just looked up merriam webster and it offers 2 definitions.
1. The disbelief in a deity
2. The doctrine there is no deity.
Way to prove you're nothing more than a liar who belongs to a child molesting cult.
American heritage dictionary is about as credible as the catholic church. And Oxford dictionary the most reputable dictionary in the world defines atheism as "disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods."
@dejesusluisx i went to merriam websters website. No such definition exists, you are probably referencing a theist projecting their own bullshit ignorant definition onto merriam webster.
The bible endorses it so either you don't follow your own holy book or i'm correct. I'm not lying about anything. There are passages throughout the bible that endorse slavery, rape and abuse.
Pouring water on a babies head does not change the babies beliefs. They don't believe in god till you
@youbetzler ""No such definition exists"" if you did, go to Merriam-Webster, you know is there, is useless to keep discussing this argument if you don't care to be honest.
The fact the Bible tells ancient people how to humanely treat a slave doesn't endorse slavery, the same way today we say a boss should be kind to his employees doesn't endorse the enslavement that capitalist system represent.
@dejesusluisx brainwash them later in life. Never tell a child about god and i guarantee you'll have an atheist.
Popularity does not = truth. Just because 80% people believe a myth doesn't mean it is true. 200 years ago 80% of people in your country believed black people should be slaves. That did not make it correct. Your reasoning is so warped and frankly disturbing.
@youbetzler "80% of people in your country believed black people should be slaves" true, and it took lots of evidence to convince them that black were equals, right? Precisely my point, thanks, atheists can't just say we have the burden of proof and leave it as that. Imagine abolitionist saying: "there is no evidence we are superior to blacks" and that's it; we would still have slaves today. Atheists need to get the evidence for their case and present it, if they want to be heard.
@dejesusluisx No there was no evidence to convince people black were equals. The freedom of slaves and civil rights movement weren't based on evidence. They were based on the idea all people are equal, they didn't prove that scientifically, the people involved just said it doesn't matter what you think this is the law and this is what's right. Like i said majority opinion does not equal truth. Man you're stupid
@youbetzler ""The freedom of slaves and civil rights movement weren't based on evidence"" of course they were, the "idea all people are equal" had to be backed by the experience of people interacting with each other. Imagine I say horses are conscious and equal to humans, so we have to let them free, would that fly? of course not, there is no evidence for it. Evidence for arguments don't have to be scientific, it could be a good logical argument, that's why you're still an atheist.
@dejesusluisx Tell me than what was the evidence. Because it wasn't popular vote that free'd the slaves. In fact the majority would have voted against it if given the chance however the leaders of your country did what was right, not what everyone else thought. There is no evidence to support it you're just pulling shit out of your arse.
@youbetzler as I said, the evidence where good logical arguments, it is useless to enter into debating each of those, it would just deviate the discussion.
@dejesusluisx How about this for evidence, i cannot prove there is no god, however i can prove the god of every religion does not exist. Ergo it's not unreasonable to assume that since every god talked about is complete fiction of human creation then it is completely reasonable to think that no god exists.
@youbetzler ""the god of every religion does not exist"" no, you just have proven dogmas created by men in trying to understand a transcendent reality people felt, were not real. Of course you would expect the understanding of primitive men of things like energy, the universe and the forces that directs it, would be completely off. We know better now, is time to see God in light of our current understanding.
@dejesusluisx So you admit that God was attributed as an explanation for things previously not understood yet you maintain that you don't have to prove gods existence. You somehow take the word of people who used to think the world was flat, the earth the centre of the universe, lightning the hand of god, etc. And try to push the burden of proof on rational thinkers purely because you know you cannot provide a lick of evidence to support your god delusion.
@youbetzler ""You somehow take the word of people"" are you really paying attention? I didn't took the word of anyone, what I did was to look for God, honestly and sincerely, and after a few yrs of searching and praying, God manifested, He showed me evidence, and He directed me to understand His true essence. After that I began to read the Bible (I didn't before, I was a non-believer) and I have confirmed through metaphors the revelations I've received. Open your eyes...
@dejesusluisx What evidence did he present to you? If logical arguments = evidence for you then i can prove there is no god. There is absolutely no tangible testable evidence to support the existence for god ergo there is no reason to believe a god exists. That is equally if not more logical than any argument for the civil rights movement.
@youbetzler ""There is absolutely no tangible testable evidence to support the existence for god ergo there is no reason to believe a god exists"" that argument is far from being logical or reasonable because absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. There isn't a single shred of evidence for a particle called graviton, and yet scientists are spending billions trying to find it.
@dejesusluisx No however there is no logical reason to believe something exists without evidence. So it is perfectly logical. I didn't say it was evidence of absence, it is evidence of non belief being completely justified. There is a substantial amount of theoretical physics behind the graviton hypothesis. The god hypothesis however is supported by child molesting illiterate goat herders translated copies of copies of copies of translations of copies.
@youbetzler Our experience show us there are plenty of phenomena that exists without evidence. Take magnets, we know there must exist something between the magnet and the iron that pulls them together, there is no evidence for it's existence, but we know is there.
@dejesusluisx This is the perfect demonstration of the corruption of theists.
A - Without
Theism - belief in god.
That is it. That is what the word means. Without belief in god. Not immorality not wickedness. And how dare you speak of morality when your cult endorses slavery, rape, child abuse, pedophilia, incest, genocide, infanticide, and blood sacrifice. You are pathetic and immoral.
my last living grandparent died on 9/10/11, at her funeral, i found the memories of her, that we all shared, were far more comforting. than any of the bible pasages that were read. knowing that she made us better people and that when she was alive, that she loved us, means more to me, than the idea that i might see her when i die.
because of her, my family will never be torn apart, because she taught her children, who taught their children, that everyones rights need to be respected.
A related story I heard was of a caller to a Christian radio show who claimed he had a shotgun and planned on killing himself but he wanted to know if "god would forgive me." The show hosts told him that life is sacred and that he shouldn't do it and god would not like it. My friend asked what an atheist like me would tell him. I didn't know. I wouldn't be able to say, "well, if you life sucks go ahead and off yourself." Is this a product of cultural inculcation that tells us life is sacred?
@Exli3r well christians see humans as above these animals, because they think god created them for us.
i think the value of a life, is related directly to the intelligence/compasion of the creature that would be destroyed. for instance, nobody realy cares when a spider dies. but when a dog dies, even if they did not know the dog. i think this is partly because dogs are more inteligent than spiders, and partly because dogs have the ability to care about other creatures.
@panda0100 Mmmh yea the whole have dominion and subdue the earth thing. Well I see what your saying and I agree with you, but how about the ecosystem. You can't have one with out the other even that spider had some purpose........to give nutrition to its hunter.
I lost my mom less than 2 weeks ago. At first I was devistated for days, couldnt stop crying
But then I woke up one day and realized that my mother already lived this day in my life. She was 28 years old at one point too, and she lived this day already
We're all on this big blue ball for the ride. Some people get off the ride sooner than others, but we all enjoy the ride in our own way. My mother lived her life the way SHE wanted to, and to honor her, Im going to live my life as well.
@pongotong777 "Scientist-your matter decomposes and goes on to new forms of life with your essence in it
Atheist-Your/there dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead and there is no form of a afterlife"
I as an atheist believe as the Scientist.
I think most of us that know anything about the way stars work would agree. Essence does not mean we live again. Just that a really, really small part of them, was once a part of us.
@instereovideos What's your bias? No one in this clip, including Jen, made any "arguments" for anything. Everyone was basically just discussing their experiences with death, loss, and dealing with the ramifications. I don't see any reason to say her experiences weren't as deep as....who else, exactly? If you're talking about other shows, I'll absolutely disagree with you again.
@pongotong777 i am an atheist and i believe that your body decomposes. I dont understand why you say that because i am an atheist that that is what i believe, i get the other ones but not that one...
this is something called "person permanance". early in our child hood we learn that when a person leaves or is not around us that person still exists. this is why a lot of religious people find it hard to understand that when we die we are not around any more. its something that has been engrained in us from the begining of time. It is from this that i tend to think was the ultimate need for humans to feel like they needed an answer to death. so we came up with the idea of an afterlife.
Only our actions and offspring stand after we're gone, our "role" in society and our achievements... And that's part of what makes our societies evolve...
I deal with my friends deaths by assimilating their best quality and remembering what I learned from his/her life. One was a animal lover so I promised to be more kind to animals, one had a love of the party life, so when I party i celebrate as he did, One was a great skeptic so I learned to be a better thinker... and so on...
Take on the best of them, remember them and pass it on.
I often found that when a clergymen gave eulogy's they were meaningless rants that offered very little comfort.
In my experience there is no religion that makes dealing with the death of a loved one easier. There are only other people, who can help you bear the weight of your sadness. Sometimes that takes the form of family, or members of a congregation, or friends, or a support group. None of that has anything to do with heaven, hell, or the concept of a creator though, it's merely the way we are.
Think hard part is fact of dealing with meaninglessness. Cause 100 years from now most people will not know or care if we exist. There is great problem how do we deal with our existence when it very well maybe ultimately pointless.
Yes, Tolstoy made that exact same argument in his Confessions. My counter-argument is, it takes a supreme amount of arrogance to care what people think about you a century from now, or to think it matters. However, if you lead a productive life that influences people for the better, you can't help but not influence history, even in a modest way for decades to come. My life made a difference to others. That is enough for me.
I didn't say you were arrogant, merely that I find the idea of obsessing about what people will think about you in the distant future, as Tolstoy did narcissistic. You can never help what people think of you, but you can make the world a better place through your actions, affecting countless people even if they never knew you were there. Of course, every atheist has to find their own meaning in life, rather than rely on dogma. Best of luck.
When it comes to death, it really does shine through that the religious really aren't true believers. Because if they were, they should be happy that their loved ones are in heaven or wherever. And if they were bad and they are going to hell or wherever then they should be for it as they deserve it according to their god or gods.
Yeah... similarly there was a new study done that showed that religious terminal patients seek more aggressive treatment before their death... Hm... for somebody that trusts the lord or is going to live forever, they sure cling to life....
Religious or not, it's not just that you are happy about where they go or not go. The true struggle is with your own mortality, and the fact that someone you love is no longer there. Anything said or unsaid just simply remains. This is where people, get crazy in their own heads. Also religion is a guidance not a cure, we are all human. My 2 cents, maybe you feel the same way.
@kyokumajr Religious or not, it's not just that you are happy about where they go or not go. The true struggle is with your own mortality, and the fact that someone you love is no longer there. Anything said or unsaid just simply remains. This is where people, get crazy in their own heads. Also religion is a guidance not a cure, we are all human. My 2 cents, maybe you feel the same way.
@kyokumajr I know I'm commenting on stuff that's a year old, but I just want to say that sure, a lot of religious people talk the talk. But when it comes down to it, we're all human, and when we lose a loved one, we know they're gone. It depends on my mood, but most of the time I'm willing to let this fact slide in the interest of being empathetic. Of course, if someone's being an ass, I have no qualms about letting them have it. I just think losing someone brings out true, honest beliefs.
@LazarusXE are u serious if that is what u think then something must be wrong with u. if your mother goes to live in the Caribbean and left u for years would u not cry, would u not miss her? thats the same thing the Caribbean is nice but Ur not there. Got it?
I'd say dealing with death is not possible as a christian. Because you don't actually believe the person died, they just went somewhere else. Almost like they started a new life in another country.
Here is a classic case of tasteless christian behaviour. After my Mothers funeral, my Grandfather approached me in front of virtually everyone in attendance. The conversation went something like this:"Do you ever want to see your Mother again?" (I knew where this was going...) "I don't believe that's possible Grandpa" His retort:"WELL YOU'D BETTER GIVE YOUR LIFE TO JESUS CHRIST IF YOU EVER WANT TOO!!" This is a man who never called to ask how I was as my mother slowly died of cancer. Asshole
I think that only an atheist can truly grieve over the loss of a loved one. If you're religious, why would you ever grieve? Don't you truly believe that your loved one actually went to a better, happier place?
Only an atheist really knows that they are forever gone. :-(
I lost my wife of 21 years not too long ago. I'm an atheist. That's why I grieved.
I think they also grieve, because they also feel the loss (I bet subconsciously they realize they are wrong about an afterlife or aren't 100% sure); Furthermore, they can rationalize: what if we won't meet after death (1 to heaven/ other hell).
That must be really hard for you. & dammit I just had this huge nag to say "she's in a better place" just because of cultural upbringing & having nothing "comforting" to type, yet wanting to.
You can't be more of an idiot than this jackass below me...
dkthg 3 months ago
God exists, that's the accepted claim by the majority of people, you want to challenge that, bring the evidence, the burden of proof is on YOU. Some narrow minded atheist proposed the wrong notion that atheism doesn't require evidence and many gullible atheists had run to foolishly embrace it. Philosophically the burden of proof is in the argument challenging the establishment. What evidence you have that atheism is true? None, zero, nada. Open your eyes, you're being deceived by an evil cult.
dejesusluisx 5 months ago
@dejesusluisx science isn't a popular vote. Just because the majority of humans claim to believe in a god, doesn't shift the burden of proof. If you claim a god exists you have to provide evidence to substantiate that claim for it to be an accepted scientific claim. Most atheists adopt scientific thinking as it is the most effective method to discovering truth and fact opposed to fiction and fantasy like you run on.
youbetzler 1 month ago
@youbetzler The God question is not a question for science, is a question for theology, science is concerned by the "how God did it" question, not by the "did God did it" question. You can easily assume God did it and continue your scientific quest to understand the mechanisms and God given laws for all creation. Thousands of scientists, myself included, don't find any conflict between science and religion. If anything, it helps us persevere.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx you can easily assume god did it and you can easily be wrong. The Claim God Exists, is a scientific claim, much like were i to say Bigfoot exists or the Tooth Fairy exists. Were i to make such a claim the onus is not on you to prove me wrong, it is on me to substantiate my claim with evidence. Simple as that. If you think otherwise you are delusional and irrational.
youbetzler 1 month ago
@youbetzler ""The Claim God Exists, is a scientific claim"" no, is a philosophical/theological claim, and a also a faith claim, and faith argument doesn't require evidence. Now is you claim that is false, you are either making a faith claim too or you need evidence to back your claims, get it?
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx To claim something exists is a scientific claim, you don't get to make a claim and then decide how it is categorised. I'm not claiming it's false, i'm simply rejecting your claim based on lack of evidence. I don't need evidence to back my claims because i am in the default position. If someone is accused of commiting a crime and there is no evidence to suggest they committed the crime they are not guilty by default. They don't have to prove their innocence
youbetzler 1 month ago
@youbetzler The accepted knowledge always stands until the new knowledge is proven. In the 16 century Galileo had to prove the heliocentric theory vs. the geocentric dogma of the time. He didn’t said: “you are all wrong, prove the geocentric theory is right”. He got the data and presented his case. Doesn’t matter how much evidence or none the establishment has, the accepted knowledge stands and it doesn’t have to bring data forth because it's already accepted, atheists claims need it
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx The accepted knowledge from the first humans was that there is NO god. The god hypothesis was proclaimed not proven and just accepted by a bunch of goat herding morons from the bronze age. That does not make it the accepted knowledge. The original position was no god exists, you are born an atheist so you have to establish proof and evidence to change that position justifiably.
youbetzler 1 month ago
@youbetzler ""That does not make it the accepted knowledge"" I don't know in your country, but in mine, 80% say it is.
""you are born an atheist"" no, atheism is a conscious decision, where a choice is presented, is not a default for anything. We are born ignorant, not atheist, and we baptize our babies to make sure they are the property of the Lord.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx 5000 years ago most people believed that the egyptian gods existed, or the Grecian gods existed. No one EVER proved Zues doesn't exist, or Rah, or Apophis, or Thor. They simply replaced it with an updated fairy tale. The default position is nothing exists till we can prove it exists, not everything exists till we prove it doesn't. That's the way it is, you're only arguing this irrational burden of proof stance because you KNOW you cannot prove a god exists.
youbetzler 1 month ago
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@youbetzler "No one EVER proved Zues doesn't exist, or Rah, or Apophis, or Thor." One more time you support my point. Someone got the evidence and presented a better case, atheists need to get the evidence and present their case, so far, the explanation that God create the universe is the best one. Give me your reasons to say atheism is true, or provide evidence God isn't real, or find a logical contradiction for the existence of a conscious creator, or at least good argument!!!
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx "what evidence you have that atheism is true?"
There is no truth/non truth to atheism. Atheism is a lack of belief in a god. You claim there is a god and i don't believe you because there is no evidence. I don't have to justify my position of skepticism because i am not making any claims, just rejecting your claim to the existence of a god.
youbetzler 1 month ago
@youbetzler Atheists also make positive claims. They claim theists are deluded, that the Bible is a fairy tale and that God doesn't exist. These claims also required evidence to be proven otherwise they turn into faith claims. Do you like to be part of a cult? If not, then get the evidence or get out. If your atheism isn't based on evidence you're just changing one religion for another.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx Please explain how atheism is a religion? That's like saying bald is a hair colour.
Atheism is based on lack of evidence. I'm also an Atooth fairies, and Abigfootist, and Asantaist. Do i need evidence to support my non belief in the tooth fairy? no.
Those claims are made by individuals, you cannot attack atheism based on the opinions of individuals. If i say you are deluded that is my personal opinion not an atheism doctrine there is no atheist doctrine just disbelief
youbetzler 1 month ago
@youbetzler ""Those claims are made by individuals"" those individuals are the face of atheism, they are the most prominent and outspoken atheists. Is as if Tom Cruise would make a claim about Scientology, everyone will take it as a reflection of all the members beliefs. So, if you don't like it, don't say you're an atheist, say you're agnostic.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx atheist and agnostic are not different. Learn the meaning of the words and maybe you'll stop being a dumbass. Agnost means without knowledge, atheist means without belief. I'm an agnostic atheist, just like every other atheist.
youbetzler 1 month ago
@youbetzler Atheism:
1."ungodliness, wickedness" Merriam-Webster
2."The doctrine that there is no God or gods" Answers
3."the doctrine or belief that there is no God" Dictionary
4."Godlessness; immorality" American Heritage dictionary
So, atheism is the wicked and immoral doctrine or belief that there is no God. A belief not based on evidence is a faith belief by definition, and an organized faith is a religion or a cult. Therefore atheism is a cult. Open your eyes, cult member...
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx i just looked up merriam webster and it offers 2 definitions.
1. The disbelief in a deity
2. The doctrine there is no deity.
Way to prove you're nothing more than a liar who belongs to a child molesting cult.
American heritage dictionary is about as credible as the catholic church. And Oxford dictionary the most reputable dictionary in the world defines atheism as "disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods."
youbetzler 1 month ago
@youbetzler Google atheism definition and click on the Merriam Webster definition, you'll see the very first one is the one I copied.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx i went to merriam websters website. No such definition exists, you are probably referencing a theist projecting their own bullshit ignorant definition onto merriam webster.
The bible endorses it so either you don't follow your own holy book or i'm correct. I'm not lying about anything. There are passages throughout the bible that endorse slavery, rape and abuse.
Pouring water on a babies head does not change the babies beliefs. They don't believe in god till you
youbetzler 1 month ago
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@youbetzler ""No such definition exists"" if you did, go to Merriam-Webster, you know is there, is useless to keep discussing this argument if you don't care to be honest.
The fact the Bible tells ancient people how to humanely treat a slave doesn't endorse slavery, the same way today we say a boss should be kind to his employees doesn't endorse the enslavement that capitalist system represent.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx brainwash them later in life. Never tell a child about god and i guarantee you'll have an atheist.
Popularity does not = truth. Just because 80% people believe a myth doesn't mean it is true. 200 years ago 80% of people in your country believed black people should be slaves. That did not make it correct. Your reasoning is so warped and frankly disturbing.
youbetzler 1 month ago
@youbetzler "80% of people in your country believed black people should be slaves" true, and it took lots of evidence to convince them that black were equals, right? Precisely my point, thanks, atheists can't just say we have the burden of proof and leave it as that. Imagine abolitionist saying: "there is no evidence we are superior to blacks" and that's it; we would still have slaves today. Atheists need to get the evidence for their case and present it, if they want to be heard.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx No there was no evidence to convince people black were equals. The freedom of slaves and civil rights movement weren't based on evidence. They were based on the idea all people are equal, they didn't prove that scientifically, the people involved just said it doesn't matter what you think this is the law and this is what's right. Like i said majority opinion does not equal truth. Man you're stupid
youbetzler 1 month ago
@youbetzler ""The freedom of slaves and civil rights movement weren't based on evidence"" of course they were, the "idea all people are equal" had to be backed by the experience of people interacting with each other. Imagine I say horses are conscious and equal to humans, so we have to let them free, would that fly? of course not, there is no evidence for it. Evidence for arguments don't have to be scientific, it could be a good logical argument, that's why you're still an atheist.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx Tell me than what was the evidence. Because it wasn't popular vote that free'd the slaves. In fact the majority would have voted against it if given the chance however the leaders of your country did what was right, not what everyone else thought. There is no evidence to support it you're just pulling shit out of your arse.
youbetzler 1 month ago
@youbetzler as I said, the evidence where good logical arguments, it is useless to enter into debating each of those, it would just deviate the discussion.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx How about this for evidence, i cannot prove there is no god, however i can prove the god of every religion does not exist. Ergo it's not unreasonable to assume that since every god talked about is complete fiction of human creation then it is completely reasonable to think that no god exists.
youbetzler 1 month ago
@youbetzler ""the god of every religion does not exist"" no, you just have proven dogmas created by men in trying to understand a transcendent reality people felt, were not real. Of course you would expect the understanding of primitive men of things like energy, the universe and the forces that directs it, would be completely off. We know better now, is time to see God in light of our current understanding.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx So you admit that God was attributed as an explanation for things previously not understood yet you maintain that you don't have to prove gods existence. You somehow take the word of people who used to think the world was flat, the earth the centre of the universe, lightning the hand of god, etc. And try to push the burden of proof on rational thinkers purely because you know you cannot provide a lick of evidence to support your god delusion.
youbetzler 1 month ago
@youbetzler ""You somehow take the word of people"" are you really paying attention? I didn't took the word of anyone, what I did was to look for God, honestly and sincerely, and after a few yrs of searching and praying, God manifested, He showed me evidence, and He directed me to understand His true essence. After that I began to read the Bible (I didn't before, I was a non-believer) and I have confirmed through metaphors the revelations I've received. Open your eyes...
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx What evidence did he present to you? If logical arguments = evidence for you then i can prove there is no god. There is absolutely no tangible testable evidence to support the existence for god ergo there is no reason to believe a god exists. That is equally if not more logical than any argument for the civil rights movement.
youbetzler 1 month ago
@youbetzler ""There is absolutely no tangible testable evidence to support the existence for god ergo there is no reason to believe a god exists"" that argument is far from being logical or reasonable because absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. There isn't a single shred of evidence for a particle called graviton, and yet scientists are spending billions trying to find it.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx No however there is no logical reason to believe something exists without evidence. So it is perfectly logical. I didn't say it was evidence of absence, it is evidence of non belief being completely justified. There is a substantial amount of theoretical physics behind the graviton hypothesis. The god hypothesis however is supported by child molesting illiterate goat herders translated copies of copies of copies of translations of copies.
youbetzler 1 month ago
@youbetzler Our experience show us there are plenty of phenomena that exists without evidence. Take magnets, we know there must exist something between the magnet and the iron that pulls them together, there is no evidence for it's existence, but we know is there.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx Actually there is substantial evidence to magnetism, evidence that is measurable, testable and falsifiable.
youbetzler 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx This is the perfect demonstration of the corruption of theists.
A - Without
Theism - belief in god.
That is it. That is what the word means. Without belief in god. Not immorality not wickedness. And how dare you speak of morality when your cult endorses slavery, rape, child abuse, pedophilia, incest, genocide, infanticide, and blood sacrifice. You are pathetic and immoral.
youbetzler 1 month ago
@youbetzler We don't endorse any of that and you know it, lying and deceiving in the name in your cult is immoral.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
my last living grandparent died on 9/10/11, at her funeral, i found the memories of her, that we all shared, were far more comforting. than any of the bible pasages that were read. knowing that she made us better people and that when she was alive, that she loved us, means more to me, than the idea that i might see her when i die.
because of her, my family will never be torn apart, because she taught her children, who taught their children, that everyones rights need to be respected.
panda0100 5 months ago
Thank you for sharing your hearts
tribalfriend1 1 year ago
A related story I heard was of a caller to a Christian radio show who claimed he had a shotgun and planned on killing himself but he wanted to know if "god would forgive me." The show hosts told him that life is sacred and that he shouldn't do it and god would not like it. My friend asked what an atheist like me would tell him. I didn't know. I wouldn't be able to say, "well, if you life sucks go ahead and off yourself." Is this a product of cultural inculcation that tells us life is sacred?
JoshwithaJ 1 year ago
@JoshwithaJ Thats so true. If life was really sacred than why do many of us kill and eat animals (Cows, Chicken, fish etc) everyday.
Exli3r 7 months ago
@Exli3r well christians see humans as above these animals, because they think god created them for us.
i think the value of a life, is related directly to the intelligence/compasion of the creature that would be destroyed. for instance, nobody realy cares when a spider dies. but when a dog dies, even if they did not know the dog. i think this is partly because dogs are more inteligent than spiders, and partly because dogs have the ability to care about other creatures.
panda0100 5 months ago
@panda0100 Mmmh yea the whole have dominion and subdue the earth thing. Well I see what your saying and I agree with you, but how about the ecosystem. You can't have one with out the other even that spider had some purpose........to give nutrition to its hunter.
Exli3r 5 months ago
@Exli3r yes i agree.
the way i ment was more if the spider was killed by a human. or the dog killed by a human.
but i completely agree, that when something dies, it does have purpose, even shit decomposes and becomes nutrition for something.
the value i am talking about is more of the emotional value. rather than the overall value.
panda0100 5 months ago
@pongotong777 The scientist view is the same as the atheist view retard.
No intellectual would use the term "essence" in the sense you are using it in
ThePyroNympho 1 year ago
I lost my mom less than 2 weeks ago. At first I was devistated for days, couldnt stop crying
But then I woke up one day and realized that my mother already lived this day in my life. She was 28 years old at one point too, and she lived this day already
We're all on this big blue ball for the ride. Some people get off the ride sooner than others, but we all enjoy the ride in our own way. My mother lived her life the way SHE wanted to, and to honor her, Im going to live my life as well.
Pozorrogo 1 year ago
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@pongotong777 "Scientist-your matter decomposes and goes on to new forms of life with your essence in it
Atheist-Your/there dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead and there is no form of a afterlife"
I as an atheist believe as the Scientist.
I think most of us that know anything about the way stars work would agree. Essence does not mean we live again. Just that a really, really small part of them, was once a part of us.
And that is beautiful.
4me2cclearly 1 year ago
Jen makes some really terrible arguments. Every host on this show is twice as deep as this woman.
instereovideos 1 year ago
@instereovideos What's your bias? No one in this clip, including Jen, made any "arguments" for anything. Everyone was basically just discussing their experiences with death, loss, and dealing with the ramifications. I don't see any reason to say her experiences weren't as deep as....who else, exactly? If you're talking about other shows, I'll absolutely disagree with you again.
PosFlow 1 year ago
@PosFlow Sorry. It's my opinion. Jen isn't a good host.
instereovideos 1 year ago
@instereovideos Yea, I was more wondering why you hold that opinion. Like I said, she didn't argue anything in this clip.
PosFlow 1 year ago
@PosFlow Don't think she's a good host. That's why I hold the opinion.
instereovideos 1 year ago
@pongotong777 i am an atheist and i believe that your body decomposes. I dont understand why you say that because i am an atheist that that is what i believe, i get the other ones but not that one...
TheBlackasaurus 1 year ago
i believe in the great eternal pig lizard
Treadsoftly14 1 year ago
@Treadsoftly14
What does the eternal pig lizard offer in terms of an afterlife?
He sounds pretty awesome
boyinthedrain 1 year ago
Woe to those who defy the word of God for they will rot in the deepest burning pits in hell.
MrGeorgios2020 1 year ago
flagellar motor
Jason29n 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
You two speak as if you know something...... when you don't
knmleaguecity 2 years ago
You speak as if you know something...... when you don't
Without Zeus you have nothing.
blackplatypus 2 years ago
what?
knmleaguecity 2 years ago
What? did my comment seem kind of crazy to you?
I wonder why...
blackplatypus 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Without God you have nothing.
knmleaguecity 2 years ago
this is something called "person permanance". early in our child hood we learn that when a person leaves or is not around us that person still exists. this is why a lot of religious people find it hard to understand that when we die we are not around any more. its something that has been engrained in us from the begining of time. It is from this that i tend to think was the ultimate need for humans to feel like they needed an answer to death. so we came up with the idea of an afterlife.
gillymonstar 2 years ago
That true thats the point Dr. Michio Kaku made.
"Man is unlike any other creature on the planet. Since the dawn of man, they knew that there time on earth was limited so they made shotcuts"
Very good point
JeremyLeroy96 2 years ago
Only our actions and offspring stand after we're gone, our "role" in society and our achievements... And that's part of what makes our societies evolve...
Acrimonator 2 years ago
i like to eat the flesh of the fallen and gain their POWER
keggerous 2 years ago
I deal with my friends deaths by assimilating their best quality and remembering what I learned from his/her life. One was a animal lover so I promised to be more kind to animals, one had a love of the party life, so when I party i celebrate as he did, One was a great skeptic so I learned to be a better thinker... and so on...
Take on the best of them, remember them and pass it on.
I often found that when a clergymen gave eulogy's they were meaningless rants that offered very little comfort.
EveryHumanBeing 2 years ago 14
I like that idea.
Goliath916 2 years ago 2
thats a great idea! their memory will always live on.
MasterofDisaster17 2 years ago
@EveryHumanBeing That is some sterling advice... kudos.
youbetzler 1 month ago
In my experience there is no religion that makes dealing with the death of a loved one easier. There are only other people, who can help you bear the weight of your sadness. Sometimes that takes the form of family, or members of a congregation, or friends, or a support group. None of that has anything to do with heaven, hell, or the concept of a creator though, it's merely the way we are.
AHPMB 2 years ago 4
Think hard part is fact of dealing with meaninglessness. Cause 100 years from now most people will not know or care if we exist. There is great problem how do we deal with our existence when it very well maybe ultimately pointless.
bumfire007 2 years ago
Yes, Tolstoy made that exact same argument in his Confessions. My counter-argument is, it takes a supreme amount of arrogance to care what people think about you a century from now, or to think it matters. However, if you lead a productive life that influences people for the better, you can't help but not influence history, even in a modest way for decades to come. My life made a difference to others. That is enough for me.
AHPMB 2 years ago
Dam didn't know I was arrogant or like Tolstoy. I though I was little bit scared. lol
bumfire007 2 years ago
I didn't say you were arrogant, merely that I find the idea of obsessing about what people will think about you in the distant future, as Tolstoy did narcissistic. You can never help what people think of you, but you can make the world a better place through your actions, affecting countless people even if they never knew you were there. Of course, every atheist has to find their own meaning in life, rather than rely on dogma. Best of luck.
AHPMB 2 years ago
It's nice to watch a good movie even though it's gonna end and eventually all copies will be lost.
OneStonedBastard 2 years ago
Watch this video:
"Wisdom of the Buddha"
impermanentoo 2 years ago
If someone passes away, how will it help you to believe in a delusion?
You could simply tell yourself that the person is just sleeping.
What about those family members who were non-believers and dies, would it be more comforting to think that your family is burning in hell???
The standards to go to heaven is too high for us to achieve so chances are, your loved one is in hell.
I think it's better serve for someone who died to remember their goodness.
yo1o2eggs 2 years ago 6
When it comes to death, it really does shine through that the religious really aren't true believers. Because if they were, they should be happy that their loved ones are in heaven or wherever. And if they were bad and they are going to hell or wherever then they should be for it as they deserve it according to their god or gods.
Yet do theists act like this? Not really...
LazarusXE 2 years ago 9
Yeah... similarly there was a new study done that showed that religious terminal patients seek more aggressive treatment before their death... Hm... for somebody that trusts the lord or is going to live forever, they sure cling to life....
kyokumajr 2 years ago 8
Religious or not, it's not just that you are happy about where they go or not go. The true struggle is with your own mortality, and the fact that someone you love is no longer there. Anything said or unsaid just simply remains. This is where people, get crazy in their own heads. Also religion is a guidance not a cure, we are all human. My 2 cents, maybe you feel the same way.
Hollowe 1 year ago
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@kyokumajr Religious or not, it's not just that you are happy about where they go or not go. The true struggle is with your own mortality, and the fact that someone you love is no longer there. Anything said or unsaid just simply remains. This is where people, get crazy in their own heads. Also religion is a guidance not a cure, we are all human. My 2 cents, maybe you feel the same way.
Hollowe 1 year ago
@kyokumajr I know I'm commenting on stuff that's a year old, but I just want to say that sure, a lot of religious people talk the talk. But when it comes down to it, we're all human, and when we lose a loved one, we know they're gone. It depends on my mood, but most of the time I'm willing to let this fact slide in the interest of being empathetic. Of course, if someone's being an ass, I have no qualms about letting them have it. I just think losing someone brings out true, honest beliefs.
PosFlow 1 year ago
@LazarusXE are u serious if that is what u think then something must be wrong with u. if your mother goes to live in the Caribbean and left u for years would u not cry, would u not miss her? thats the same thing the Caribbean is nice but Ur not there. Got it?
dillion800 1 year ago
Scientists have a stance on the adterlife? Where are pulling this from?
kyokumajr 3 years ago 10
Perhaps he meant Scientologist?
ihateyouall1111 2 years ago
I'd say dealing with death is not possible as a christian. Because you don't actually believe the person died, they just went somewhere else. Almost like they started a new life in another country.
MotionFur 3 years ago 9
Here is a classic case of tasteless christian behaviour. After my Mothers funeral, my Grandfather approached me in front of virtually everyone in attendance. The conversation went something like this:"Do you ever want to see your Mother again?" (I knew where this was going...) "I don't believe that's possible Grandpa" His retort:"WELL YOU'D BETTER GIVE YOUR LIFE TO JESUS CHRIST IF YOU EVER WANT TOO!!" This is a man who never called to ask how I was as my mother slowly died of cancer. Asshole
bffinnster 3 years ago 13
Wow... that's freakin horrid... freakin ass... I mean just coming on with the preaching I can stand... but during vulnurable time like this... sick
kyokumajr 3 years ago
Dwell on the good times man, assholes like that are not worth thought-time.
TheProf1988 3 years ago 18
I'm sorry for your loss. I hope you don't let what he said get you down too much. Like TheProf1988 said, remember the good times.
BananaHurricane 3 years ago 4
lol yeah
kyokumajr 3 years ago
I don't get the skateboard thing :/
kyokumajr 3 years ago
I think that only an atheist can truly grieve over the loss of a loved one. If you're religious, why would you ever grieve? Don't you truly believe that your loved one actually went to a better, happier place?
Only an atheist really knows that they are forever gone. :-(
I lost my wife of 21 years not too long ago. I'm an atheist. That's why I grieved.
GiaAndScott 3 years ago 3
I think they also grieve, because they also feel the loss (I bet subconsciously they realize they are wrong about an afterlife or aren't 100% sure); Furthermore, they can rationalize: what if we won't meet after death (1 to heaven/ other hell).
That must be really hard for you. & dammit I just had this huge nag to say "she's in a better place" just because of cultural upbringing & having nothing "comforting" to type, yet wanting to.
kyokumajr 3 years ago
Good points!
No comfort necessary but thanks for the thought. :-)
GiaAndScott 3 years ago
Good for you and them
But trying to make an analysis on a such a subject is total wankerism
ofssk 3 years ago
I know how to grieve for myself when I'm sad but how as an atheist can help support people who are grieving.
shoogie06 3 years ago
I agree that it is nonsense to greave all your life, since even though their life is over, your continues & you have to move on.
But I think some grieving is fine, especially if you don't believe in an afterlife, since that person is gone.
kyokumajr 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
try losing a child
ofssk 3 years ago