hell_fact_or_fiction_6

[phillip78]

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

HOW CAN JESUS BE THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD [IF] HE DOES NOT SAVE THE WORLD?? ANSWER ME! OR DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE BIBLE IS JUST A BOOK OF CONTRADICTIONS?

[ChosenofGod37]

The bible only contradicts itself when people like you lift up Scriptures and make them say what you want them to say.

[phillip78]

For our God IS A CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29)!

[ChosenofGod37]

PHILLIP, How is it possible to GAIN THE WHOLE WORLD AND LOSE YOUR SOUL AND STILL GO TO HEAVEN? (mt 16:26)

[phillip78]

I JUST SHOWED YOU. AND STILL IT HAS [NOTHING TO DO WITH ETERNITY. Your still an armature with the Greek word eon

[phillip78]

ChosenofGod37 is contradicting his own self and dosen't even realize it. I think he is a calvinist. They do this a lot. I used to be a hard core believer in the pagan hell. But with strong evidence and hard studying I learned it wasn't true. I had to submit myself to the truth, and acknowledge I was wrong when I believed in that doctrine. MOST people have too much pride at admit they are wrong. I on the other hand , am not like most people. If I'm proven wrong, I admit it. Most don't

[EmeiBaguazhang]

ChosenofGod37, you state NOW, that the spirit does NOT go back with God.

Why do you have a problem with that!!????

Since the Father tells us it surly DOES!!!!

Ecclesiastes 12:7

and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

I am sorry, but I refuse to argue with anyone who does NOT believe the Word of God and CLAIMS to be "OF GOD!"

Goodbye

[phillip78]

WOW just reading these past comments I'm in awe to say the least. I can't believe how much lack of knowledge choosen has of the word of God. No offense to "choosen" but he says things like "fire dosen't save us" "our spirit dosen't return to God" And the scripture PLAINLY states otherwise. I hope he isn't teaching this lie in a church. If he is, and the congregation believes him, then the congregation better start reading their bibles. That is really bad. Mind boggling

[ChosenofGod37]

phillip78, answer the question. How can one LOSE his/her own soul if everyone is going to be saved? ( Matthew 16:26)

[phillip78]

Matthew 16:26For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world[material things], and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange[material things] for his soul? your really scrounging to try and disprove me. lol go read 1 Cor 3:15 again If any man's work[what does WORK PRODUCE? THINGS!] shall be burned, he shall suffer loss[what will he lose?material things?]: but he himself shall be SAVED;[HOW?] yet so as by FIRE. Now go praise and thank God that all will be saved. AMEN

[ChosenofGod37]

1 Cor 3: 15 has nothing to do with the believer being saved by fire. They are already secure in their salvation by their faith in Jesus Christ and his cleansing BLOOD.

This Scripture teaches that No matter how much one's work is worthless, No BELIEVER will FORFEIT HIS/ HER salvation.

Your basically saying that Jesus' sacrifice on the cross was not enough. That His blood did not cleanse us from all unrighteousness and sin. Therefore, we have to get purified by fire. This is BLASPHEMY!

[phillip78]

are you illiterate? 1 COR 3:15 but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. [YOU TELL ME THIS DOESN'T PERTAIN TO THE BELIEVER EVEN WHEN YOU READ. "For EVERY ONE [sinner and saint] shall be salted with FIRE" (Mark 9:49).

YOU REALLY ARE A WASTE OF TIME. UUUHHH HELLO???????

btw Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is NONE righteous, no, NOT ONE: [THIS INCLUDES YOU PAL] YOU ARE NOT RIGHTEOUS!! So what makes you think your going to fly off to heaven when you die??? refer BACK to 1 cor3:15

[ChosenofGod37]

Keep on butchering those Scriptures and making them say what you want. There is sever punish for this. ( Rev 22 18-19)

[ChosenofGod37]

Are you serious? I am righteous child of God. How? Jesus Christ imputed His righteousness to me when I became born again and my sin was imputed to Him.( Romans 4:3-6; 2 Corinthians 5:21) It was an exchange of life. This is basic Christianity 101 here, Phillip, for you to make such comments about what makes you righteous and flying off to heaven, makes me question if you are saved at all.

[ChosenofGod37]

Read your bible Phillip. Turn to 2 Corinthians 5:21 and lets read it together. "FOR THE ONE NOT HAVING KNOWN SIN, HE MADE SIN ON OUR BEHALF, SO THAT WE SHALL BECOME THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IN HIM'

NOTICE IN ROMANS 4:3-6 ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. FAITH IS CREDITED AS RIGHTEOUSNESS, VERSE 5.

THAT, MY FRIEND IS HOW I'M FLYING OFF TO HEAVEN. YOU CAN HAVE YOUR PURIFICATION FIRE, THE GENUINE BORN AGAIN CHILDREN OF GOD DON'T NEED IT.

[ChosenofGod37]

You have the audacity to say " i have a lack of knowledge of the word" ? Are you kidding me? Never said the spirit does not return to God, your twisted words, not mine. Answer the question you and your universalist colleagues are dodging, HOW CAN ONE LOSE HIS/HER OWN SOUL IF EVERYONE IS GOING TO BE SAVED? ( MATTHEW 16:26)

[ChosenofGod37]

First, I never said the spirit never goes back to God. Your words, not mine. Second, Answer the question that all universalist run from. HOW CAN ONE LOSE HIS/HER OWN SOUL IF EVERYONE IS GOING TO BE SAVED? (MATTHEW 16:26)

DO NOT TRY THE TYPICAL UNIVERSALIST RESPONSE " IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT" JESUS IS CRYSTAL CLEAR. THIS PASSAGE IS CRYSTAL CLEAR.

[EmeiBaguazhang]

Secondly ChosenofGod37, you stated that FIRE does NOT SAVE, while the WORD OF GOD states that it DOES.

So WHO doesn't know what they believe and why they believe it!!??

You do NOT know the Very WORD OF GOD!!

You are the one picking, lifting and choosing which scriptures to lift out and take, while throwing out the rest of God's Word.

I am wondering if you have the proper spirit, since you insist on making accusatory statements about your brothers.

[ChosenofGod37]

Baua, I never known a genuine saved person who said they were saved by fire and not the Blood of Jesus Christ ( as you claim and other universalist.). This is the spirit of error, not the Spirit of truth. Read Romans 5:9; Read Ephesians 2:13; Read Hebrews 9:22 ;Read Hebrews 13:12 ;Read Revelation 1:5 and tell me what your saved by... THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST!

[ChosenofGod37]

If you deny that the Blood of Jesus has saved you, then your not saved.Your as lost as the day is long. This is the spirit of the Antichrist. Examine yourself to see if your in the faith.( 2 Cor 13:5) By your comments there is nothing to examine. Anyone who is claiming to be saved by fire and not the BLOOD of JESUS is as lost as the day is long. Put your faith in the BLOOD of JESUS alone for your salvation. There is no other way.

[phillip78]

Why do you make idiotic comments like "If you deny that the Blood of Jesus has saved you" Why do you assume we have denied the blood of Jesus? Because we believe all will be saved? (in their own order 1 Cor 15:23) Because we have PROVEN that your hell is pagan? Is a belief in your pagan hell a requirement for salvation? Your pagan hell is on a sandy foundation, and we have proven you DEAD WRONG. Who are you too JUDGE another man's salvation?SELF RIGHTEOUS HYPOCRITE!!

[ChosenofGod37]

Because Emeibaguazhang believes one is saved by fire and not the blood of Jesus. I'm not judging anyone. Just giving truth. btw, still waiting for a biblical answer to How can one Lose his/her soul and go to heaven?

[phillip78]

you are BLOWING MY MIND cause you are DIRECTLY CONTRADICTING THE WORD. JUST PATHETIC

GOOD BYE

[EmeiBaguazhang]

So if we would just understand and believe the Word of God we would all see that Jesus Christ IS THE FIRE.

God has been portrayed by fire throughout his Word. I cannot see why anyone would have a problem understanding this idea.

Tongues of fire

Pillar of Fire

Burning bush

Etc, etc.

Yes,....Jesus Christ IS the Savior of the WHOLE WORLD.

I know you wish it were not true, but it is a fact!

You are going to have to deal with that fact some day.

[ChosenofGod37]

How can one LOSE his/her SOUL if everyone is going to be saved? ( Matthew 16:26)

[EmeiBaguazhang]

So ChosenofGod37 if you say that the fire is not Jesus Christ, then you MUST admit that there is another way beside Jesus Christ that will bring a man salvation.

If you admit that the Fire IS Jesus Christ, then you would be saying that this fire will save all men and the works are that the only thing being burned up.

Otherwise YOU would have to throw out 1 Cor 3:11 -15 stating that a man is saved BY FIRE!

[phillip78]

ChosenofGod37 reminds me of Mr. loudmouth. I have debunked his theory of hell miserably. I (we)got him trapped by the word of God. AMEN. The word of God is like a 2 edged sword. But I also remember when I used to believe in the pagan hell also, but after further studying, I learned it was all a lie. But most people refuse to accept the truth. That's sad they turn their back on the Good News. God help people like ChosenofGod37

[EmeiBaguazhang]

Hi phillip78 God bless you!

He is just like we used to be, I know.

It is tough seeing people blind. But it is God's will for the time being.

Oh well, the best we can do is try to reason with them and pray!

Peace be with you my brother.

[phillip78]

Peace. When God see's the time for them to know, God will remove the scales from their eyes. Until then it's all about prayer.

Gob bless

[EmeiBaguazhang]

Amen to that brother!

Take care.

[phillip78]

Bagu can you believe that, I show him chapter and verse that specifically says we are saved through the fire, and yet he denies it. I'm amazed at how people can boldly read these scriptures and deny it. I think he just wants to argue. Very immature.

[ChosenofGod37]

Your deceived phillip beyond measure. The only thing you have shown is how to take Scripture out of context and say "see I told you so" Typical behavior of people that cling to false theology. How sad.

[ChosenofGod37]

Hey Emeibaguazhang and every Universalist. How can one LOSE his/her own SOUL if everyone is going to be saved? ( Matthew 16:26)

How can you be saved and LOSE your soul?

[ChosenofGod37]

You don't know what you believe and why you believe it. You lift up Scripture, take it out of context and say "see I told you so". Quit running on the treadmill of false theology and educate yourself on how to get saved biblically, BY THE SHED BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST.

[EmeiBaguazhang]

First off, why do you keep threatening people with this "Get Saved" business???

You are mostly talking to saved Christians here. Why do you keep judging men's hearts??

Don't you know that ONLY GOD can do that???

[EmeiBaguazhang]

Yeah Loudmouth is a hard case.

YET,.........that too is the will of God.

I NEVER mind discussing issues on God with ANYONE. I don't even care that they do not agree with me!!!!

What bothers me is the lack of the use of logic in a conversation. Although I am sure Loudmouth is a great person, but he/she does NOT use proper logic in her/his conversations.

God be with you always phillip78.

[ChosenofGod37]

LOL. I don't think this comment deserves a response.

[phillip78]

you think God died JUST for the ELECT? You must me a Calvinist. You follow the ways of Calvin, I follow Jesus.

[ChosenofGod37]

It's actually unfortunate that a man's name is associated with the doctrines that came out of the Protestant Reformation. Calvin was not the first to articulate these truths, but merely was the chief systematizer of such doctrines. I'm not a follower of John Calvin, but I do believe in the doctrines of grace.

[phillip78]

You believe the doctrines of grace? Well my friend you haven't even scratched the surface of the full meaning of grace. We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Now go study GRACE. And discover how great God's grace really is.

[phillip78]

Because Jesus DID NOT JUST DIE FOR THE ELECT. If that's what you really think, then you are miserably misled

[phillip78]

gotta go 4 now

[ChosenofGod37]

Hey Phillip78 and all Universalist. How can one LOSE his/her own SOUL if everyone is going to be saved? ( Matthew 16:26)

[ChosenofGod37]

How can you be saved and LOSE your soul? ( Matthew 16:26)

[ChosenofGod37]

Why did you remove your typical universalist answer from the forum? You answered exactly the way I said you would!!! When confronted with truth you can't answer, you run with your tail between your legs. TRY AGAIN!! THIS TIME LEAVE YOUR RESPONSE.HOW CAN ONE LOSE HIS/ HER SOUL IF EVERYONE IS GOING TO BE SAVED? ( MT 16:26)

WHY WOULD JESUS SAY THIS IF HE WAS GOING TO SAVE EVERBODY? HOW CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SOUL IF EVERYONE IS GOING TO HEAVEN?

[phillip78]

Jesus came to save sinners yet you teach the very one's he came to save will no be saved because of sin. John the baptist said the lamb of God takes AWAY the sin of the world. Yet you say sin will keep people eternally separated from God. How can this be if Jesus takes AWAY sin Jn 1:29 Salvation is of JESUS yet you teach man saves himself by his willingness to believe, thus you are making salvation a thing of human willingness rather than of God.

[ChosenofGod37]

The Jews thought salvation was for them only. 'Takes away the sin of the world" means Just not for Jews , but Gentiles too. The world is made up of Jews and Gentiles from every nation, tribe, and tongue. ( Rev 5:9)

Jesus did come to save sinners, but not all sinners will Repent and Believe in Jesus.

Salvation is an sovereign act of God. God chooses man.

There are 3 P's of salvation. God the Father (Predestined me), God the Son ( Purchased me), God the Holy Spirit ( Preserves me) .

[phillip78]

Answer this. God created billions of people KNOWING in ADVANCE they would be tormented for eternity???

Answer me! And how is this justice?

[ChosenofGod37]

Your a POW of false theology and choose to remain in bondage to it. Quit running on that treadmill of man made traditions and let the Holy Spirit ( Not lying and seducing spirits) give you revelation of His word.

[ChosenofGod37]

Anyone that knows how to interpret the word of God properly, knows that phillip78 and other Universalist continue to lift up Scriptures and take them out of context to support their false theology.

Universalism is false. God's judgment is real. There are one of two places where you will spend eternity. Heaven or Hell. Where you spend it depends on your response to the cross of Christ. If you reject it, you will be rejecting the only provision for forgiveness of your sin, Jesus Christ .

[phillip78]

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon ALL men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon ALL men unto justification of life.

Maybe Jesus was talking about something else when He spoke about hell (Gehenna)... He did speak in alot of parables!

OR maybe since when Jesus spoke about "hell" it was directed at the pharisees.. so maybe just all the religious leaders will go to hell.

just a thought.

[ChosenofGod37]

Just a thought? You interpret Scripture with "just a thought" ? Maybe? There is no "'just a thought" or "maybe's" when interpreting the Scriptures That is your problem Phillip78, you interpret Scripture with human reaso

[phillip78]

watch?v=KyN0hifskEo&feature=ch­annel_page

Are they all lost forever?? part 2

[phillip78]

The Lake of Fire and Brimstone signifies a fire burning with brimstone; the word 'brimstone' or sulphur defines the character of the fire. The Greek word THEION translated 'brimstone' is exactly the same word THEION which means 'divine.' Sulphur was sacred to the deity among the ancient Greeks; and was used to fumigate, to purify, and to cleanse and consecrate to the deity; continued...

[phillip78]

...for this purpose they burned it in their incense. In Homer's Iliad (16:228), one is spoken of as purifying a goblet with fire and brimstone. The verb derived from THEION is THEIOO, which means to hallow, to make divine, . To any Greek, or any trained in the Greek language, a 'lake of fire and brimstone' would mean a 'lake of divine purification.' continued...

[phillip78]

The idea of judgment need not be excluded. Divine purification and divine consecration are the plain meaning in ancient Greek. In the ordinary explanation, this fundamental meaning of the word is entirely left out, and nothing about eternal torment is associated with it...End

Now that you know I'm not making anything up, go pray that God show you the truth now.

[bbasham46]

The Holy spitit has confirmed his to me, through the bible,Christian sermons from Godly pastors, Gods sprit says he will testify by three ot more witnes's, and believe me i have had more then three witness's. I am just trying to stay alive as long as I can. However i dont have the fear i once had(at least not the terror attacks) God is merciful as long as you live a Godly life and sow unto rightousness But i stll get depressed sometimes thinking about whats to come, not just for me, but...

[bbasham46]

I hope this teaching is true, i believe I have lost my salvation, and i am struggleing to not hate a God who will punish me and my family as well as others who have rejected him..

[LoveGodEndlessly]

Hm, maybe you did not really believe (or now hate) the true God, but rather a false image that was painted to you.

I love God with all my heart, but I could not do so, if I would truley believe that He would torture people for eternity.

This doctrine IMHO hinders people to follow the first and greatest commandment to love God with all our heart, MIND and soul.

I have a feeling you just rejected a false image.

[phillip78]

What makes you think you have lost your salvation? You have not lost your salvation. That's a lie directly from satan. Here is the gospel in 4 verses. God WILLS that all mankind be SAVED (I Tim.2:4). But will God's will be done? Thy WILL B-E DONE... (Mat. 6:10). God IS LOVE (I John 4:8). But will God's love fail to save all humanity? LOVE N-E-V-E-R FAILS (I Cor. 13:10).

[ChosenofGod37]

Phillip78, I don't know where you get your theory of the gospel, but your gospel is not biblical. First, God does not will all mankind to be saved. Turn to Rev 22 : 14-15, read it and tell me who those people are outside the gates of heaven. Second, God is love, but He is also a Righteous, Holy, Just God who judges sin. The gospel is this: Repent and Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, who died for sin on the cross, who offers Himself to be your Lord and Savior. You must believe or your not saved.

[phillip78]

No one can believe and repent UNLESS THEY ARE DRAWN FIRST! You really think God's judgments are a place of literal fire? Isaiah 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. (So do the inhabitants of the world LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS AND THEN GET PUNISHED FOR ETERNITY?)HOW STUPID IS THAT???So your Good News is that most will be tormented 4ever?

[phillip78]

I know the scriptures well, and NOTHING and I mean NOTHING will [EVER] draw me away from what God has shown me. Read Lam 3:31, Ezek 16:55? 1 Tim2:4 and 4:10 and death is abolished 1 Cor 15:26 where death is abolished. The lake of fire is the 2nd death. Abolished means it is done away with. The church thinks that the Lake of fire is the end of everything but they are sadly mistaken. IT'S NOT!

[ChosenofGod37]

Did God show you or did Gary Amirault show you? Phillip78, search the scriptures yourself and read them in context and compare the other scriptures to the subject and let me know what you find out. God bless.

[ChosenofGod37]

Death is abolished for believers only. If Your born once, you die twice. If your born twice ( born again) you die once.

[phillip78]

Death is abolished for believers only. Give me chapter and verse that says that!! (God chooses us, not because we believe, but that we may believe.) So God created billions of people NOT knowing if they would be saved or not? So much for an ALL KNOWING GOD huh! And no nothing I learned came from tentmaker. All that was revealed to me came before I even owned a pc.

[phillip78]

The only one who takes it out of context are the one's who insist on eternal torment because they don't know the original language which it came from. You need to go back in time and learn the language of Greek, to understand what's going on. I've done my homework.

[ChosenofGod37]

Turn to and read Galatians 3: 7-9 and John 11: 25-26. Jesus himself says you must believe to have this resurrection life. Therefore, you must be a BELIEVER to never die. Phillip78, I can see your zeal for God, but zeal does not always equal to sound doctrine.

[phillip78]

YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS IS DEALING WITH THE 1000 YEAR REIGN CHRIST WILL HAVE HERE ON EARTH [NOT ETERNITY] The wages of sin is DEATH NOT eternal torment. Romans 6:23. Since Jesus paid our debt on the cross [FULLY] and the price for sin is death. Then Jesus himself would have to be tormented for eternity. Or did Jesus not pay that price? You do not read scripture rightly!! You have not entered God's mind

[ChosenofGod37]

Matthew Chapter 7 has nothing to do with the 1000 yr reign. I have know idea where you get that interpretation from the text. Again, it seems you are taking the text and making it say what you want it to say, like most Universalist do. You apply human reasoning to scripture instead of sound exegesis.

Phillip78, your interpretation of scripture is as twisted as your theology.

[phillip78]

Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (KJV)

Mt 25:46 And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian." (CLNT)

You need a Concordant Literal New Testament. The bible dose not speak of eternal punishment. It is EONIAN

[phillip78]

The King James translators decided to interpret rather than translate. Not to mention 14 WHOLE books that were omitted. They are HIDING something FROM YOU!!

[phillip78]

ETERNITY: Make no mistake about it, the Protestant Church has and always will bow to the authority of the Roman Church. No matter how many adjustments, additions, or deletions they make to their Roman heritage, they are still, nonetheless, Roman to the core. Every time you open your King James Bible and believe that its pages are "inerrant," you bow to the Catholic Church. "Eternity" is not an Hebrew word, neither is it Greek, nor English. Then why is it found in your King James Bible? CONT...

[phillip78]

Who put it there and from where did it come? Our [now] English words "eternal" and "eternity" come from the Latin word aevum. Dictionaries define this word as meaning, "lifetime, life, age, mankind living at a particular time." From aevum comes aeviternus and the adjective aeternus which is our English word eternal. The doctrine of "everlasting punishment" is based on this LATIN word borrowed from the CATHOLIC Vulgate Bible.

[phillip78]

The doctrine came from Egypt, from where it was borrowed by the Greeks, and passed on to the Romans. In order for the Catholic Church to hold on to this pagan doctrine, so as to have almost supernatural power over the people by the use of this fear doctrine, they found it needful to find a way to interject this most damnable of all pagan doctrines, into the very translation of the Scriptures themselves. END

[ChosenofGod37]

Really? I believe that was why the Holy Spirit moved on Luther, I think it was called the Protestant Reformation. You are making no sense Phillip78

[phillip78]

How DARE YOU qualify or limit A LOVE THAT never fails! 1Cor 13:8 If God is love 1Jn 4:8 and is NEVER vengeful You say it's forever in torment of hell. What a load a crap! His anger is but for a moment Ps 30:5

Why is it on earth God's anger lasts but for a moment, and his favor is for life, but after his death His favor is not even a moment and his anger is forever? How is it possible God's love can change so drastically at the drop of a hat? Lam 3:31 For the LORD will [NOT] cast off [FOR EVER]

[phillip78]

You will say someone like Hitler was an evil person cause of all the things he did to people. YET you will say it's right for God to do something much worse for eternity. You appear to be white, clean and humble, but you heart is full of it. It takes an evil, evil mind to compared a loving God to do such horrible things to people for ETERNITY. TORMENT FOR ETERNITY?? WHAT WOULD POSSESS YOU TO THINK SUCH EVIL AGAINST GOD??

[phillip78]

You are a POW of religion. You are teaching what was passed down to you by tradition of men.

[phillip78]

Death is abolished for believers only.

1 Cor 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Stop adding to the word.

[ChosenofGod37]

1 Timothy 4:10

The idea that " God is the Savior of all men" means that all who have ever lived will be saved. If this was true, the rest of the verse would have no meaning when it says " especially of believers".

I believe 1 Timothy 4:10 teaches that we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people ( showing mercy to all each and every day they live) , especially of those who believe ( who receive full salvation from His wrath and everlasting life).

[phillip78]

i sent you a couple of video on the word especially. you need to listen carefully

[ChosenofGod37]

Go up to verse 8 in Isaiah 26 -this talks about Israel's remnant giving the key to redemption- their complete dependence on the Lord, not human devised schemes. Verse 9 refers to the "pious" Jews long for god at all times, God's punishing hand benefits sinners in leading to repentance. Below in Verse 10, God gives His love t and mercy to the wicked, but they turn their backs to righteousness. You have taken Isaiah 26: 9 out of context as do most Universalist do with Scripture.

[ChosenofGod37]

God chooses us, not because we believe, but that we may believe. ( Augustine). ( Eph 1:3-4; Phi 1:29; 2 Thess 2:13-14). You have taken Isaiah 26:9 out of context as most Universalist do with Scripture.

[phillip78]

according to you his death is only to save a few, his death was to save all , 1 Timothy 4:10

and for this we labor and strive, that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.

study a little and pray the holy spirit will guide you, God bless

[ChosenofGod37]

No, according to Jesus only a few will be saved. Turn to Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter in through the narrow gate, because WIDE IS THE GATE AND SPACIOUS IS THE WAY WHICH LEADS TO THE DESTRUCTION, AND MANY ARE THE ONES ENTERING IN THROUGH IT. HOW NARROW IS THE GATE AND HAVING BEEN CONSTRICTED IS THE WAY WHICH LEADS TO THE LIFE, AND FEW ARE THE ONES FINDING IT."

[ChosenofGod37]

Phillip78, Read 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12. After you read these Scriptures you can't possibly believe everyone will be saved.

[phillip78]

Just continue to teach your eternal damnation trash. Just remember every time you do, you are bowing down to the Roman Catholic's. You are believing exactly what satan wants you to believe, that he has won most of mankind. You have believed a lie. Satan has not been able to deceive me anymore. You don't have to bring up scripture I already know. I have been through them MANY OF TIMES. BEFORE.

[phillip78]

11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (and you have bought the lie believing most are damned)(you think I have PLEASURE IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS??) You THINK YOU KNOW ME?? What does this have anything to do with our conversation? (YOU can't possibly believe most will literally have their FLESH be on fire for ETERNITY? You call that JUST??

[phillip78]

You call justice someone having their flesh burned for ETERNITY?? For just a short life span here on earth? And what about those who never even heard the name of Jesus? So they are going to your pagan hell, even though they never even heard the name of Jesus? And you call this JUSTICE? 1 Tim 2:4, and 4:10 says ALL WILL BE SAVED. You twist this to say some. So IT'S YOU WHO IS TWISTING THE WORD NOT ME! YOU THEREFORE HAVE REJECTED THE GOSPEL. Deal with it.

[ChosenofGod37]

2 Thessalonians 2:9-10 "Of whom is his arrival according to the supernatural working of Satan, in all power and signs and wonders of deceit, 10 and in all deception of the unrighteousness AMONG THE ONES PERISHING, BECAUSE THEY DID NOT RECEIVE THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH FOR THEM TO BE SAVED."

God's words not mine, Phillip78.

[phillip78]

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of ALL men, specially of those that believe.

GOD'S WORD NOT MINE, ChosenofGod37

[phillip78]

ChosenofGod37 REFUSES TO RECEIVE THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH.

[ChosenofGod37]

The truth... Universalism is false. God's judgment of sin is real. When you die you will go one of two places. Heaven or Hell. (Hebrews 9: 27) Where you spend it depends on your response to the Cross of Christ.

Repent and Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved.

[phillip78]

I have never said Jesus wasn't the way have I? No I didn't. By the way Jesus DID NOT come to save us from eternal torment in hell. He came to save us from SIN

[phillip78]

And how about 1 Cor 15:28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.

Oh darn there's that word "ALL"AGAIN. Tell me how is God going to be ALL IN ALL IF MOST ARE IN YOUR PAGAN HELL?

[ChosenofGod37]

The correct translation is "desires" , not "will".

God's "desires" is not His will. There is an distinction between God's desire and His eternal saving purpose, which transcend His desires.

[phillip78]

God's desire is the same as his will. Even if it isn't, you seriously think God most heart felt desire will not come to pass even though Jesus gave himself as a ransom for ALL?? 1 Tim 2:6

Can't seen to get away from the word ALL can you

[ChosenofGod37]

all of every kind of man. Gentiles and Jews.(Revelation 5:9) "Worthy are you to take the book and to break its seals; for you were slain and purchased for God with your blood MEN FROM EVERY TRIBE AND TONGUE AND PEOPLE AND NATION."

[phillip78]

1 Timothy 2:4 Who WILL have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

God's word not mine

[phillip78]

everlasting, correct translation eonian

[phillip78]

1 Cor 15:22 For even as, in Adam, ALL are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall ALL be vivified.

There's that ALL word you hate so much. AGAIN

[ChosenofGod37]

Very simple. The key words are "In Adam' and "In Christ." Those who are "in Adam" (non-believers) Those 'in Christ" (believers).

The two "alls" are alike only in the sense that they both apply to descendants.

Paul's final analogy of Adam and Christ is in verse 19.

[phillip78]

It STILL SAYS ALL. NOT JUST BELIEVERS OR SOME. IT SAYS ALL STOP TRYING TO CHANGE WHAT IT SAYS

[phillip78]

23 Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence;

Everyone will be saved in his OWN ORDER. THIS IS WHAT SUMS UP "ALL IN ALL

[phillip78]

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is JESUS CHRIST. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, WOOD, HAY, STUBBLE; Every mans work shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed BY FIRE; and the FIRE shall TRY EVERY MANS WORK of what sort it is. If any mans work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any mans work shall be BURNED, he shall SUFFER LOSS; continued...

[ChosenofGod37]

These scriptures refer to the bema seat judgment of believers in Christ. Your works as a believer will be judged by God. wood, hay, stubble represent self-righteous works that will be burned with fire. Gold, silver, stones are tthe reward to the faithful believer.

Has nothing to do with salvation, phillip78.

[phillip78]

God consumes with fire, the wood, hay and stubble in our lives. The things that dont deserve to continue. But he REFINES the gold, silver, and precious stones (those doctrines and godly character traits of Gods spirit that abide the fire). It is figurative language, it is an analogy, it is a parable, it is metaphorical (where one thing is called another thing). continued...

[phillip78]

Our lives have either qualities of character (which are likened to gold and precious stones, things of value to refine and retain), or gross lacks in character (which are likened to wood, hay, and stubble and which are not worthy to retain or preserve).

It has EVERTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION

End

[ChosenofGod37]

Yea, the salvation of the genuine believer in Christ. Not non-believers. The useless works of the BELIEVER ARE BURNED BY FIRE.

[phillip78]

And just as real literal fire is used to refine and purify gold and precious metals, so Gods SPIRITUAL FIRE refines and purifies us from our sinful and carnal nature. And likewise, as real literal fire is used to burn up wood and stubble, so Gods all consuming SPIRITUAL FIRE will consume and burn up all the impurities in our life. These things MUST DIE.  continued...

[phillip78]

This purging is the SECOND DEATH. And whether the person God subjects to His consuming fire has many good qualities or none, the person himself shall be purged, purified, and SAVED BY GODS ALL-CONSUMING SPIRITUAL FIRE!!! We just read it in Gods Holy Word. How can you deny it? Every person who has ever lived will be subjected to the cleaning fire of Gods spirit. end

[ChosenofGod37]

Hmmm..You sound alot like Roman Catholic purgatory, which is un-biblical. These scriptures have nothing to do with purifying sins, you are adding this to the text as you do with others.

[phillip78]

It's a parable goofy. A lot of the bible is. You don't know that? Why do you think Jesus preached in parables? Don't you know he did it so the masses wouldn't understand.

[ChosenofGod37]

The bema seat of Christ is not a parable. It is literally going to happen! Goofy! Do you even know what the bema seat is?

[phillip78]

and no i don't believe in purgatory or anything catholic. THAT'S FOR SURE. I PROMISE YOU THAT.

[phillip78]

It is good for us that God makes us dig deep for the precious gems of His word. It really is like searching for hidden treasure. And I have never found a hidden treasure in Gods Word that has disappointed me. Each new discovery brings more appreciation for God and His plan of salvation for all.

[ChosenofGod37]

Your like a salad bar religious Christian, who picks and chooses from God's word what they want to believe. Universalism is a man made doctrine that tickles the ears of people who have made up their own God. Not the God in the bible.

[phillip78]

I Cor. 3:11-15 for believer only?? wrong again lol

For EVERY ONE [sinner and saint] shall be salted with FIRE" (Mark 9:49).

And I saw a great white throne ... And I saw the dead... and the dead were JUDGED... according to their WORKS... and they were judged EVERY MAN according to their WORKS" (Rev. 20:11-13).

You think your just gona tip toe right on into heaven but your NOT. YOU WILL BE SALTED WITH FIE ALSO. ALONG [WITH] THE UNBELIEVER. LOL

[phillip78]

Goofy you think your not going to be salted with fire? your DEAD WRONG. I have given you scripture from all over the bible so it's you who picks and chooses what YOU want not me. Your pagan hell has been DEBUNKED MISERABLY. And you know it. You just can't fathom the idea of YOUR ENEMIES receiving the SAME grace as you.

God's word not mine. Don't shoot the messenger

[phillip78]

You need to study the words hades, sheol. and eonian. Which CLEARLY SHOWS YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.

[ChosenofGod37]

You need to get saved and rely on the Holy Spirit for revelation of His word. You are all over the place with your interpretation. ( As most Universalist are).

[EmeiBaguazhang]

Why would you say that phillip78 is NOT saved just because he believes there is no pagan hell???

Is THAT the scale by which you think a man is judged???

I thought it was FAITH IN CHRIST???

Where does it say that faith in hell is a prerequisite of salvation??

Did someone change the rules, or are you just picking that kind of idea out of the air???

[phillip78]

well said. AMEN

fundamental Christian think you MUST believe in their pagan hell to be saved. So stupid and not scriptural based.

[ChosenofGod37]

No, you must repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. The bible says if anyone preaches another gospel contrary to the one the apostles taught (which universalist do) they are to be accursed!

[phillip78]

ChosenofGod37- your a troll, I think your just looking for a fight. I have proven to you by scripture that we are saved through the fire. Your full of PRIDE and hot air. You must not feel so special anymore cause everyone else is going to receive the same grace as you. Get over it. Get a life

[ChosenofGod37]

Phillip, thats not very Christ like is it? Calling people trolls? How immature. You may think your saved by the fire, but I'm saved by the Blood Of Jesus along with every chosen child of God. Jesus bore all the sins of the elect in his body at the cross. Jesus' blood purified me of all sin and made me white as snow. Praise God!

[phillip78]

You must not know what a troll is do you? FYI, A troll is someone who enjoys debating. So let me rephrase it for you. (You enjoy debating)

[ChosenofGod37]

Because phillip has shown that he is led by the spirit of error, not the Spirit of truth. (Holy Spirit.) I don't know his heart God does, but his butchering of the Scriptures makes me question if he saved at all.

[ChosenofGod37]

You have taken Scriptures out context and made them say what you want them to say. Universalist have to do this to support their false theology.

You have done knowing but add or subtracted from the word of God. Which carries a serious judgment. Rev 22: 18-19.

[ChosenofGod37]

1 Cor 3:11 -15 is talking about the works the believer did in the body of Christ. They will either be burned up or rewarded. This text has nothing to do about purifying ones sins. You added that to the text.

The Great White Judgment is for the wicked - non-believers only.( Notice that all who stand there are not wriiten in the Lambs book of life.) Not believers in Christ. The bema seat is the judgment for believers in Christ.

[phillip78]

Mark 9:49 says ALL WILL BE SALTED WITH FIRE.

Or are you going to tell me AGAIN this dosen't mean all, like you always do.

[ChosenofGod37]

Phillip, I'm embarrassed for you by your lack of revelation of the scriptures. Tip toe into heaven? The blood of Christ has made me white as snow. Jesus has imputed me his righteousness to stand before God blameless. I don't need to be purified by fire, Jesus bore all my sins in His body at the cross.

[phillip78]

ChosenofGod37, there's not (1) righteous, no not one, so what makes you think your soooo special?

[phillip78]

You remind me of a baby Christian who is still on milk, and needs a spiritual diaper change.

[ChosenofGod37]

It is right along side purgatory, right up to where you say the purging is the second death, which Catholics do not believe. Why should they because it is not biblical.

[phillip78]

but [pay close attention to this BIG BUT] BUT HE HIMSELF [the one who had his works burned and consumed in Gods consuming fire] SHALL BE SAVED [What will save him?], yet so AS BY FIRE" (I Cor. 3:11-15)!!!

End

[ChosenofGod37]

Again, the works of the believer will be burned, and the genuine believer in Christ will persevere unto salvation. The useless works are being burned , not the believer.

[phillip78]

Gods words will NOT return empty or void. When God speaks, it will be done. When God wills, it will be done. When God desires, His desires WILL BE DONE: Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, MY COUNSEL SHALL STAND, and I WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE ... I have spoken it, I WILL ALSO BRING IT TO PASS; I HAVE PURPOSED IT, I WILL ALSO DO IT" (Isa. 46:10-11). God WILL'S for all to be saved, therefore ALL WILL BE SAVED. PROOF ENOUGH

[phillip78]

It's God's pleasure to save all of mankind, therefore HE WILL do it.

[EmeiBaguazhang]

Hi ChosenofGod37.

Why do you say that the fire will save ONLY the believer?? When God's Word states emphatically that there is only ONE way to salvation. And that is by the Lord Jesus Christ!!!

So if a person is to be saved and the fire will save one man and kill another, then you are stating that salvation does NOT come by Jesus Christ.

If there is only ONE WAY to salvation, then this fire HAS to be Christ himself, because NO OTHER way to salvation is given in God's Word!!

[ChosenofGod37]

Hey EmeiBaguazhang. The fire saves no one. The believers works are tested by the fire. Their works or either burned up or rewarded. I don't know where you get that i said fire saves people. The blood of Jesus saves people, not fire.

I have never said there was another way to salvation. Jesus Christ is the way- the truth- and the Life.

[EmeiBaguazhang]

ChosenofGod37 says: "I don't know where you get that i said fire saves people. The blood of Jesus saves people, not fire."

The Bagua says: Well first off I don't really care what you believe. But I will tell you this: The WORD OF GOD SAYS FIRE SAVES!

1 Corinthians 3:15

"If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss, but he HIMSELF shall be SAVED, yet so as by fire".

[ChosenofGod37]

Wrong. Read you bible Baua. Turn to and read the following Scriptures. Romans 5:9 ; Ephesians 2:3; Hebrews 9:22 ; Hebrews 13:12 and tell me what you find out about the BLOOD of JESUS.

[ChosenofGod37]

OOPs. I mean Ephesians 2:13. Read it.

[ChosenofGod37]

Romans 5:9 " Much more then, having now been JUSTIFIED BY HIS BLOOD, we shall be SAVED FROM THE WRATH OF GOD THROUGH HIM"

Hebrews 9: 22 " And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with the BLOOD, and WITHOUT SHEDDING OF BLOOD THERE IS NO FORGIVENESS."

Ephesians 2:13 " But now in CHRIST JESUS YOU FORMERLY WERE FAR OFF HAVE BEEN BROUGHT NEAR BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST."

Notice it is by the BLOOD we are cleansed from sin and saved, NOT BY FIRE.

[phillip78]

You are struggling to uphold you theory of hell. I have dozens of other scripture I could present to you. I not going to waste anymore time with this. If you are truly honest about your walk with God study the verses that i've given you and the greek word eonian. Or ignore everything and continue to run on your religious treadmill. Getting nowhere.

God bless you.

[ChosenofGod37]

This is Universalism... when you die your spirit goes to God and judgment means that whatever was not right about you, whatever was bad about you, whatever was substantially lacking about you, gets all resolved. It doesnt matter whether youre a Buddhist, a Hindu or a Muslim—doesnt matter whether youre a Christian really; were all going to end up in this wonderful, warm and fuzzy relationship with God. Thats just classic universalism.

I have one word for this..HERESY!

[invisableangel2]

hi bbasham,

have a look at "can you lose your salvation" by mark driscoll.

This guy has some good preaching.

hope this helps,

Your friend in Christ.

[ChosenofGod37]

This teaching is false and tickles the ears who wants to listen to it. Search the scriptures yourself and count how many times Jesus warns us of gehenna (hell) fire and judgment of those rejecting Him. Friend, if you were truly saved, you don't lose it. ( John 6: 37-39; 10:27-28) Repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

[phillip78]

Gehenna is not hell. Gehenna is a valley on the south west wall of Jerusalem. Valley of Hinnom

[ChosenofGod37]

Yes, but Gehenna was a place in Jesus day where the fire was constant and the worms never died due to the fact they dumped their garbage and dead bodies there. This place was horrifying to the Jews. Jesus used Gehenna as a symbol for judgment to the lake of fire in Rev 20:11-15 ; Rev 21:7-8)

[ChosenofGod37]

This is univesalism.. when you die your spirit goes to God and judgment means that whatever was not right about you, whatever was bad about you, whatever was substantially lacking about you, gets all resolved. It doesnt matter whether youre a Buddhist, a Hindu or a Muslim—doesnt matter whether youre a Christian really; were all going to end up in this wonderful, warm and fuzzy relationship with God. Thats just classic universalism. False teaching.

I have one word for this... HERESY