You do not tell the student don't do, this don't do that - just keep your mouth shut and take over the controls when the student cannot correct his mistake! Talking too much is not the way to instruct.
@treblecleff11 Well, have it your way if you insist. My helicopter flight instruction began in Nov of 1951, at Ft. Sill, Ok. Every member of my graduating class received a total of 250hrs in Bell helos and many of us went on to Nam! I became an instructor in tandem rotored helos like the Chinook. My FAA Helicopter, Rotary Wing Commercial certificate was issued in 1953. We gave flight instruction to many members of the FAA so they could be qualified to give exams. We were the pioneers!
Been there. This is really tough to do, even for a fixed-wing pilot like myself. The controls are just beyond super-sensitive in the R22. I flew, as a student pilot, a JetRanger and a LongRanger and both were far easier to handle than the R22, IMHO.
If this guy would stop telling himself how amazing and incredible it all is and listen to the guy next to him, he'd do better. It was making me nervous to watch him.
R22 is VERY Sensitive Helicopter, its like balancing a Ball Bearing on the Pencil. The cyclic is pretty good. just as long as you use SMALL (use your wrist to move it, and lock your arm to your side and leg) movements to correct. its pretty good traning Heli. Its also very Weight Sensitive as well. I have heard of Dynamic roll overs when student do their solos (pulling the collective to quickly) Im only a student Heli Pilot myself. this is what we have been taught
@Irishliver2 Yeah i would prefer to learn in the 44 but unfortunately the 22 is what we have to learn in. but at the end of my training I will get a 44 rating.. I heard they are alot more nicer to fly.
@madcatz2002 Excellent and highly useful description of the physical dexterity needed to fly these crude machines. Unfortuntately, the heli industry and instructors do a crappy job in communicating real advise to beginners. For some reason, they don't want you to know how "easy" it could be.
HAHAHA totally agree, they tend to let you try and figure it out more or less. I guess I could understand why they wouldnt want to you know how easy it can be, otherwise it would put alot of of them out of a job. Seams that the bigger you go, the more smooth and easier they are to fly. Take the Bell 212 for example. High Intertia blades and very forgiving. same for the 44. I have head there is another trainter coming out. Coaxial Design to rival the Robbie.
@madcatz2002 Hey Mad..., do those "modern helicopters" have gyro's? It doesn't make sense a real helicopter doesn't take advantage of modern technology, when even an rchelicopter toys have them for rudder head holding. Also, a coaxial trainer helicopter(in theory) would be "unreally easy". It's like a bicycle with training wheels. No tail rotor is needed, and independent rotor speed will control yaw. Hmmm...FAA helicopter official's would definitely specify a different classification.
@trexinvert. No the R22 is pretty basic, Basic Intruments, NO gyro to help stability like that in the MD900 for example. The R22 would be the equivalent of the Tomahawk in my opinion. As for different class i'm not too sure, most likely you would be right, im sure the CAA here would follow suit of the FAA. Yeah i wouldnt know what they are like to fly, would be interesting though. Watch this space i guess.
@trexinvert Yes they do have gyros...there is a giant rotating gyro over your head and two behind you (tail rotor and engine) model helis have very tiny rotor mass and react very quickly so they need gyros....big helis almost react too slowly so a gyro would hinder performance and maneuverability. Flying a heli is easy once you get the feel for it
@rotorav8 I fly one of thoes r22 and it is extremely responsive. Dangerous in the wrong hands. Many have been crashed by learners. They don't use gryos on them. I fly models and the r22 and the r22 is a very responsive machine indeed. Ive also flown my model Shuttle plus 32 and my dads raptor 30 without gyros fitted. On the r22 (real heli) when i lift to go up I have to use left pedal to keep in balance and down right pedal, also with speed you need to adjust. The r22 rotors have low inertia.
I understand that the R-22's are more stable than "most" helicopters, but isn't working the cyclic a little tricky? It looks like an oversized set of handlebars!
I'd like to learn too (hopefully next year cause its really expensive) but is there something I can do in the meantime.I' don't know if there are some excercises or maybe I can buy a joystick or something
I know the feeling will never be the same but I can't do nothing for a whole year or I'll go nuts :-)
I just want to do something in the meantime that would help me when the time comes.
Thx in advance.
in belgium a course cost arround 25000 euro's. Is it also expensive where you live?
I've done some more research & since I live in Belgium I would need a JAA lic & as far as I know there are only a few schools in America that are allowed do that. 1 of them is located in Florida.(Bristow Academy) They have several courses and they even combined JAA/FAA courses.
You can do the PPL H alone or do the combined PPL H / CPL H course.
I'm highly considering in going there next summer for the PPL H.
I already had fixed wing rating when I started to fly helicopters. So most of training I've done in small Sessnas and Pipers. That back then in 80s was dirt cheap in the US. As far as I remember 1 hour dual in R-22 was $180 vs $40 in C-172. So it's considerable difference. Then all I had to do is to get like 10 - 20 hours in helicopter. But I never completed it due to medical problems.
there are two exercises you can do that my instructor taught me. take a golf ball and balance it on a straw, or fill a cup with super hot water. that will help with your cyclic movements. and buy books and begin to study, so once you do start, you will have a better understanding.
fill a coffee cup with blazing hot water, and steady your arm so you wont spill the water, it helps with you not being jerky on the cyclic. and dude get the book principles of helicopter flight by W.J. Wagtendonk, best book ever
You have to wear these A/C. If you have to think about what to do next or watch the needles, you will be forever behind the A/C. People often asked me how I knew what control input to make after watching my cyclic inputs. I told them honestly that I do not conciously think about it as I do not think about how I position my legs and joints when I walk. make any sense??
Difference in hovering RC and real heli is that in RC you see the the rotor and can react quicker when it tilts. In real heli you don't see it and can only feel it after helicopter starts to move. Usually by that time rotor tilts too much and helicopter continues to accelerate and you over control it.
So basically you have to move cyclic in the direction of desired movement for a short period of time to tilt the rotor slightly and then return it back and wait for the reaction. After a while it's becoming natural and you can predict how helicopter will react. It's this delay that makes hovering difficult.
you're wrong. The flight dynamics on a helicopter does that it tilts backward when you increase the throttle. so you have to keep the cyclic stick forward. a helicopter reacts instantly and not like a jetplane. Because a helicopter engine always operates at 100% rpm and therefore it doesn't need the "spool up" time like on planes.
I can't understand why I am wrong. You wrote something that has no relation at all to whatever I wrote :) And normally you don't play with throttle much. You use the collective and throttle is adjust by the governor as needed to keep the rotor RPM.
"oh haha It's amazing!"
MarioAldanaJumuzna 6 months ago
You do not tell the student don't do, this don't do that - just keep your mouth shut and take over the controls when the student cannot correct his mistake! Talking too much is not the way to instruct.
treblecleff11 6 months ago
@treblecleff11 That's bs...they wont learn anything that way.
IIproductionsII 4 months ago
Comment removed
treblecleff11 4 months ago
@treblecleff11 Well, have it your way if you insist. My helicopter flight instruction began in Nov of 1951, at Ft. Sill, Ok. Every member of my graduating class received a total of 250hrs in Bell helos and many of us went on to Nam! I became an instructor in tandem rotored helos like the Chinook. My FAA Helicopter, Rotary Wing Commercial certificate was issued in 1953. We gave flight instruction to many members of the FAA so they could be qualified to give exams. We were the pioneers!
treblecleff11 4 months ago
@treblecleff11 thats really cool, are you flying today?
mikestreat1 2 months ago
dont teach him he will fly it into the the empire state building
arkidla 8 months ago
I'm learning to hover right now,... I can tell you I don't talk at all, just fucking concentrate and listen to the instructor.
kuso4u 8 months ago
Been there. This is really tough to do, even for a fixed-wing pilot like myself. The controls are just beyond super-sensitive in the R22. I flew, as a student pilot, a JetRanger and a LongRanger and both were far easier to handle than the R22, IMHO.
cggage 9 months ago
IS th guys name "amazing?"
leviterande 10 months ago
I think its amazing
LinkinPark2135 10 months ago
noob
djmaxdance 1 year ago
Noob
bmocomputer 1 year ago
Simulator!
jcwrsox1 1 year ago
He has a white/rich guy laugh... hahaha its amazing
djdasani 1 year ago
If this guy would stop telling himself how amazing and incredible it all is and listen to the guy next to him, he'd do better. It was making me nervous to watch him.
colin5577 1 year ago 17
@colin5577 well said, made me nervous too...what a waste of hover practice.
bander82 1 year ago
@colin5577 i wouldnt wanna BE in that chopper with HIM
pyramidhead138 10 months ago
"Trying to hover a helicopter dont try this at home" most people dont have helicopters lol
DevilsThrone01 1 year ago 7
he's probably just doing something like a "demo" flight (like i did a couple days ago). I doubt he's actually getting a real private pilot lesson.
ewthmatth 1 year ago
Comment removed
Rotorhead6235 1 year ago
R22 is VERY Sensitive Helicopter, its like balancing a Ball Bearing on the Pencil. The cyclic is pretty good. just as long as you use SMALL (use your wrist to move it, and lock your arm to your side and leg) movements to correct. its pretty good traning Heli. Its also very Weight Sensitive as well. I have heard of Dynamic roll overs when student do their solos (pulling the collective to quickly) Im only a student Heli Pilot myself. this is what we have been taught
madcatz2002 2 years ago
@madcatz2002 I hate R22's........Better to use an R44, at least then if the student screws up you have a lil more time to correct!!!! lol
Irishliver2 2 years ago
@Irishliver2 Yeah i would prefer to learn in the 44 but unfortunately the 22 is what we have to learn in. but at the end of my training I will get a 44 rating.. I heard they are alot more nicer to fly.
madcatz2002 2 years ago
@madcatz2002 Excellent and highly useful description of the physical dexterity needed to fly these crude machines. Unfortuntately, the heli industry and instructors do a crappy job in communicating real advise to beginners. For some reason, they don't want you to know how "easy" it could be.
trexinvert 1 year ago
HAHAHA totally agree, they tend to let you try and figure it out more or less. I guess I could understand why they wouldnt want to you know how easy it can be, otherwise it would put alot of of them out of a job. Seams that the bigger you go, the more smooth and easier they are to fly. Take the Bell 212 for example. High Intertia blades and very forgiving. same for the 44. I have head there is another trainter coming out. Coaxial Design to rival the Robbie.
madcatz2002 1 year ago
@madcatz2002 Hey Mad..., do those "modern helicopters" have gyro's? It doesn't make sense a real helicopter doesn't take advantage of modern technology, when even an rchelicopter toys have them for rudder head holding. Also, a coaxial trainer helicopter(in theory) would be "unreally easy". It's like a bicycle with training wheels. No tail rotor is needed, and independent rotor speed will control yaw. Hmmm...FAA helicopter official's would definitely specify a different classification.
trexinvert 1 year ago
@trexinvert. No the R22 is pretty basic, Basic Intruments, NO gyro to help stability like that in the MD900 for example. The R22 would be the equivalent of the Tomahawk in my opinion. As for different class i'm not too sure, most likely you would be right, im sure the CAA here would follow suit of the FAA. Yeah i wouldnt know what they are like to fly, would be interesting though. Watch this space i guess.
madcatz2002 1 year ago
@trexinvert Yes they do have gyros...there is a giant rotating gyro over your head and two behind you (tail rotor and engine) model helis have very tiny rotor mass and react very quickly so they need gyros....big helis almost react too slowly so a gyro would hinder performance and maneuverability. Flying a heli is easy once you get the feel for it
rotorav8 1 year ago
@rotorav8 I fly one of thoes r22 and it is extremely responsive. Dangerous in the wrong hands. Many have been crashed by learners. They don't use gryos on them. I fly models and the r22 and the r22 is a very responsive machine indeed. Ive also flown my model Shuttle plus 32 and my dads raptor 30 without gyros fitted. On the r22 (real heli) when i lift to go up I have to use left pedal to keep in balance and down right pedal, also with speed you need to adjust. The r22 rotors have low inertia.
benjyboba 7 months ago
I understand that the R-22's are more stable than "most" helicopters, but isn't working the cyclic a little tricky? It looks like an oversized set of handlebars!
ncn8ochaser 2 years ago
I'd like to learn too (hopefully next year cause its really expensive) but is there something I can do in the meantime.I' don't know if there are some excercises or maybe I can buy a joystick or something
I know the feeling will never be the same but I can't do nothing for a whole year or I'll go nuts :-)
I just want to do something in the meantime that would help me when the time comes.
Thx in advance.
in belgium a course cost arround 25000 euro's. Is it also expensive where you live?
gosasan 2 years ago
cheapest i've found in middle america (Ohio) is $50,000 USD, but i'm still searching.
CintiSlider 2 years ago
Hi,
I've done some more research & since I live in Belgium I would need a JAA lic & as far as I know there are only a few schools in America that are allowed do that. 1 of them is located in Florida.(Bristow Academy) They have several courses and they even combined JAA/FAA courses.
You can do the PPL H alone or do the combined PPL H / CPL H course.
I'm highly considering in going there next summer for the PPL H.
gosasan 2 years ago
I already had fixed wing rating when I started to fly helicopters. So most of training I've done in small Sessnas and Pipers. That back then in 80s was dirt cheap in the US. As far as I remember 1 hour dual in R-22 was $180 vs $40 in C-172. So it's considerable difference. Then all I had to do is to get like 10 - 20 hours in helicopter. But I never completed it due to medical problems.
syeager9 2 years ago
Ahhh...thats Cessna.
BROOKS39 2 years ago
there are two exercises you can do that my instructor taught me. take a golf ball and balance it on a straw, or fill a cup with super hot water. that will help with your cyclic movements. and buy books and begin to study, so once you do start, you will have a better understanding.
22640cal 2 years ago
I don't get the excercise about the hot water.
What do you do when the cup is filled?
I recently bought 5 books(most from T. Trevor) + Principles of helicopter flights. So I'm eager to start learning.
gosasan 2 years ago
fill a coffee cup with blazing hot water, and steady your arm so you wont spill the water, it helps with you not being jerky on the cyclic. and dude get the book principles of helicopter flight by W.J. Wagtendonk, best book ever
22640cal 2 years ago
I see now :-)
Thanks for the tips.
I do have that book. I mentioned it in my previous post :-D
Now I have to figure out with which one I better start :-s
gosasan 2 years ago
i got hovering in 4 hours.. alot of concentration and determination... but the feeling when you get it... thats what makes flying...
TESSLAD1 2 years ago
Comment removed
headstockfagburn 2 years ago
im a fixed wing student pilot and i gotta say helicopters look like a pain in the ass to fly compared to fixed
ilikechile 2 years ago
You have to wear these A/C. If you have to think about what to do next or watch the needles, you will be forever behind the A/C. People often asked me how I knew what control input to make after watching my cyclic inputs. I told them honestly that I do not conciously think about it as I do not think about how I position my legs and joints when I walk. make any sense??
rotorr22 2 years ago
it might make sense if i knew what a cyclic was lol
ilikechile 2 years ago 2
vhnchnn
F0ckUtoob 2 years ago
Y wasnt i that excited mt first time hovering :(
irelandunk 2 years ago
i remember first learning to hover haha
shapipple12 2 years ago
Comment removed
pf126p 2 years ago
I went into my intro know how sensitive the cntrls were from my RC heli flying.
I was pissed afterwards and my CFI asked why. I told him I should have done better.
He told me that feel comes first then knowledge makes it work.
camp69 3 years ago
Difference in hovering RC and real heli is that in RC you see the the rotor and can react quicker when it tilts. In real heli you don't see it and can only feel it after helicopter starts to move. Usually by that time rotor tilts too much and helicopter continues to accelerate and you over control it.
syeager9 3 years ago
So basically you have to move cyclic in the direction of desired movement for a short period of time to tilt the rotor slightly and then return it back and wait for the reaction. After a while it's becoming natural and you can predict how helicopter will react. It's this delay that makes hovering difficult.
syeager9 3 years ago
you're wrong. The flight dynamics on a helicopter does that it tilts backward when you increase the throttle. so you have to keep the cyclic stick forward. a helicopter reacts instantly and not like a jetplane. Because a helicopter engine always operates at 100% rpm and therefore it doesn't need the "spool up" time like on planes.
Thor7036 2 years ago
how'd it all work out?
Kilomph 3 years ago
I can't understand why I am wrong. You wrote something that has no relation at all to whatever I wrote :) And normally you don't play with throttle much. You use the collective and throttle is adjust by the governor as needed to keep the rotor RPM.
syeager9 2 years ago
lol i have 10.6 hours of flight time, and that was definitely me about a week a go
lol that was a good vid
dykehimselfz 4 years ago
It typically takes a good 9-10 hours before a student can start to hold it steady.
pf126p 2 years ago
thats EXACTLY what my first intro flight was like hehe i hope you become a pilot
greatdaine 4 years ago