In my practice, I, too have found that EFT is very effective in healing grief and loss. However, I try to stay away from implying that people are "doing it to themselves" or "wasting time" when they are grieving. Rather I've found that loving them and what they're going through is the best way to move through the process of grief with EFT Tapping.
Regret and feelings in loss do only one basic thing...keep you in pain and to hurt yourself which you can also use latter because you waisted time regretting and hurting. Endless cycle that hurt those who do it. So just tap it out and do something productive. Love yourself and do what you need to do. Peace Robert
this is all good but what about those who are suffering from prolonged acute grief? It is in the medical field and a real problem that people just don't get over it as so many ppl seem to come across. then a severe Depression can set in and not go away. would like to hear your thoughts on this topic. thanks for your thoughts about grief and death.
Just like any problem some do take longer but acute can change fast as others but some cases its takes longer.
It is correct with the medical field people never get over acute grief & depression because they think the cause is chemical imbalance which is totally incorrect but rather are the expressions of the mental constructions (internal representations) such as loses and other traumas.
But this process I am teaching it is addressing the real cause which is how & what you do inside.
@HealingMagic Your dismissal of the medical field is most unwelcome and may have a poor effect on people who are being treated for such a depressive illness and read this comment. The medical field does not think that there is a chemical imbalance in the brain of people with grief; rather, it forms a small part of the model of how we view what that individual may be experiencing. I suggest you retract or clarify your comment for safety reasons.
After the grief is over theres years of Internal Healing to be done then theres weeks of Counseling to help remotivate the person or persons who lost loved ones
What response would help you? In essence Robert is not just saying get over it - he is asking how purposeful is it to be in pain and feel only sorrow or sadness about the one whom you clearly love and miss. Better surely to clear the pain and focus upon the positive memories you shared
This is very powerful, clear, helpful and to the point! Thanks a lot for the DVDs Grief & Loss Recovery, they are soooooo good. It gives words to my believes and tools to heal others. You are a great teacher!!!
I put the link of this video on my website. I want to share this with everyone!
Thanks a lot. Now I start with the DVDs The mind of a Healer Ill let you know!
Stop Being Fat ! Get Your 100% Free trial of our revolutionare diet supplement and see better and faster results Soonder you could imagine. Check my profile for more info
I don't think you've ever lost anyone who ever meant anything to you. Life has a way of slapping you in the face, with things you do not want to know or understand. Good luck dealing with it when you get the GIFT you never asked for.
The real gift is what you choose to keep in your mind and heart. They were never yours but come to leave you presents and you are the one who honors or dishonors what they have given you. Feeling bad hurts those who do it and then everyone else around. peace is making peace within
It is not a bad combination when you truly understand what Jesus taught. He taught about personal control, forgiveness and understanding how we process information. Surrounding to truth.
I have been watching Robert Smith's videos for about a year. I had experienced the murder of a friend, my Father's suicide and the death of my mentor. I started tapping along with Robert's videos. I kept at it, I kept listening, I kept watching his videos. I started letting go of all the pain. I now have this amazing freedom to be happy. EFT works, it is a miracle and I wish my Dad had this tool before he killed himself. He could not cope with his grief and chose death. Please give Robert a try
Do you suggest I tell my next client, a Mum of a dead 2 hour old baby that her thoughts are screwing her up and that she needs to have positive memories? Do I tell her that she is doing this to herself?
I wish your solution was that simple but God forbid you lose a young child, or your wife gives birth to a dead baby - then tell me that "stress and emotion is based on perception".
My process is about releasing hurt emotions. I am giving my belief system in order to produce that healing.
You are 100% correct telling them to get over it doesn't work.
If you believe they will always suffer then they will-bad belief. In other cultures death is a celebration which is also based on their perceptions & of course emotions.
That is why I am addressing the emotions & the harmful beliefs so they leave with a peaceful connection with those who passed.
Oranges are natural. Sheep are natural. body odour is natural. Death is natural- but is grief natural? or is it something that we learn to do? A bit like EFT, if we were so inclined perhaps
I have no fear of death, but I hate the though of my partner and sons suffering torturous emotional pain if I died. I'd want them to to get along to Robert as quickly as possible. I'd rather look down ( or up ) and see them laughing than look and see them crying. I wouldn't want to wish that pain on my worst enemy. But that's just me, I don't need the validation of other peoples grief.
It was actually good for me to experience the pain, because for me, it enabled me to move through my grief and let it go - the natural way. I'm not stuck in any way. I dealt with it, as billions of others have in the same fashion. In my opinion, you will be Forever wrong!
You a Threat? Hardly! You have brainwashed yourself. In this life, whatever works for You. But when you try to pass it on to others who are not mentally sound, the results could be disasterous.
In addition...I think the grief counseling community should be alerted to this site. To say there is no such thing as bereavement and pain in loss is pretty sick and could cause damage to uninformed and naive grievers. Tsk Tsk!!
There is no good being produced in bereavement, pain, and suffering.
I am a threat only to those who want to keep the pain and suffering. Because I know it is a self inflicted act that hurts those who do it. It also hurts their children and loved ones. It causes illness and even more death. I don't believe is it healthy to keep it inside.
You do have that right to stay in it and practice it for as long as you wish but it is not good. I will never undo anything.
Hey Mr. Healer With Attitude...You are afraid of your own humanity. I want to pity the poor misguided souls that feed into your tripe. Gee, I'm beginning to suspect you've never experienced a loss before. Just Wait!
I have experienced many losses, my father, grandmother, two grandfathers, 22 yr. marriage so I am no stranger to it but I have to discover how to heal my heart. I understand your mission to pass on your beliefs of grief and pain but it isn't healthy. There is this one fact, we will all die and it is apart of life, those who have died are ok, but those who are left do have the choice to suffer, grieve, become depressed or to honor those who have passed & cherish those healing memories.
There is nothing to "enjoy" about grieving. I have yet to meet anyone who reveled in it, though perhaps some people can get stuck. We are biologically wired to react to loss a certain way. The brain lags behind the reality and has to reconfigure its entire imprint to incorporate the loss into the person's identity. This takes TIME! Tapping my head and rubbing my gut is not going to make the pain disappear. It's only going to make me look FOOLISH! Sorry, there are no silly shortcuts.
I suggest doing what works and in some cultures there is no grieving but celebration. I know the foolish will continue to do what doesn't work while smart people are willing to try something that works.
For you there is no shortcuts & the pain will be apart of your identity for a long time: Speaking of silly beliefs and foolish acts, so I guess it works well for you.
I would release the pain and remember all the good memories of those past because they are ok.
hey healingmagic i got a question for u how do u seal a wound thats inside near the heart ??? for me when my cousin died i felt like i couldnt keep going and i felt a void that wouldnt seal how do i get the will to keep going ???
Your cousin left with you good memories & your attitude that you can't keep going is what is holding your back. It is a bad decision. You are choosing to be stuck & blaming his death as an excuse to be mean to yourself. They are OK it is you who needs help because of your bad decision. Go back & tap away the pain then honor the relationship by keeping the happy memories & good experiences in mind. Tormenting yourself with sadness, unforgiveness & anger you are just being mean. Tap for peace.
Thanks. I've been studying EFT for about two years now. It has been effective for the most part. I do like the way you shorten the process so I'm not tapping 24/07. I am currently studying ways of avoiding having more traumatic or hurtful experiences and or at least minimizing them. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Can tapping be a benefit to what is to come as well as being able to let go of the past. Can it help me to handle and cope with new situations that may arise in everyday life?
As, in not letting an experience get to the point to where I have to tap it away in the first place.
I understand the Law of Attraction reference saying that I will attract better things. However, new problems sort of filled in for the ones I tapped away and sometimes I feel like I'm back to the drawing board.
I know the healing process and others choose to do it the hard way. The LOOOOOOOONNNNNNGGG hard way because they like to enjoy the hurt and thinking that is a way of loving those who have passed but actually it hurts those who do it and their loved ones who are still around. Dishonors the relationship and the good they have left for us to heal. We do have many choices so make them wisely. peace and love
You have two options. Keep your stuff inside and they attract more or tap them until are gone and with each step you become freer. Law of attraction is what you have within you will attract into your life. Clean is out so you will get better stuff no matter how long it takes because you are a worthy person.
Robert, forgiveness is a key to healing,but I'm confused as to how one would forgive a pedophile who has assaulted a family member? How would one handle feelings toward such a person? Thanks. :)
I wanted all to know how EFT helped me. 2007 I found my father with a gunshot to the head, with half the head gone.(Suicide)suffered from PSTD, panic attacks, I moved way across the country to get away,
In VA, I found a therapists who introduced me to EFT. Within weeks,night terrors gone,PSTD little harder, but from all this I healed..Today, I am ok. I have EFT to thank for all of this..And of course GOD !!
God bless you, GwendolynsPeace, that is an extremely difficult experience to live with and manage. (Yes, that's an understatement, but I want to stay with your new-found positive trajectory.) Thank you for sharing with us all! I wish for you many positive new experiences and memories...
When dealing with death and loss if the client develops fears and phobias after the death. do you start right off with the death and then tap out the others because they have become habits, or rituals, so we just look at them and then let them go?
The key to the changes is your belief system and how you create the changes within them. I do have the DVD set on how to address grief and loss. There is a real skill to making the changes. Every person is different and how they internalize their experiences.
I found your site and have been watching and tapping! Amazing.
As for grief, when someone can nail the problem right back to the death of a loved one and then as the years go by develop fears and phobias, control issues etc. do you just go right directly to the root and then the others will take care of themselves? or do we work on the others after.
I wasnt able to heal form a clinical depression till I discovered a few days ago maybe the 4 best affirmations ever:
I love you
Im sorry
Please forgive me
I thank you
I repeated this affirmations over and over and over again till I healed completely. I tried everything for more than 2 years and the solutions was so simple.
Focusing on the postiveness rather than the negative beliefs in your brain. It makes sense i have been in a relationship that diddnt work out- and i focused on the negativeness why it ddidnt work, which gives me the same results, so to change it, is to focus your thoughts and beliefs on the memories of the relationship i had, creating peace love and happiness for me, and whoever is around and wants to enter my energy field.
You have been listening to my words... "Memories never die, they only show up in another pair of shoes, and usually in a bigger meaner and uglier way." If they are bad.
Been studying you carefully for a long time. You should be network TV, though, I would never catch/watch. But plenty of people would be helped greatly. We want to invite you to do a workshop in our city, Cincinnati.
so would this be when fears and phobias are developed, another pair of shoes? so do we go right to the death with the client first thing. if they come for the fears and phobias but then say they stared after the death of aq loved one
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JohnG7274 1 month ago
In my practice, I, too have found that EFT is very effective in healing grief and loss. However, I try to stay away from implying that people are "doing it to themselves" or "wasting time" when they are grieving. Rather I've found that loving them and what they're going through is the best way to move through the process of grief with EFT Tapping.
zoezimmermann 6 months ago
Fantastic video, it helped out alot!
toneyandchunk 1 year ago
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urgencyharviefcem 1 year ago
Fantastic presentation! Thank you! Keep smiling ; )
swamper45 1 year ago
Healing attitudes about grief and loss.
mariondevine1 1 year ago
Hi Robert,
I was wondering how do you handle regret and feeling of loss over missed opportunities or screwing them up?
MuzeecX 1 year ago
@MuzeecX
Regret and feelings in loss do only one basic thing...keep you in pain and to hurt yourself which you can also use latter because you waisted time regretting and hurting. Endless cycle that hurt those who do it. So just tap it out and do something productive. Love yourself and do what you need to do. Peace Robert
HealingMagic 1 year ago
this is all good but what about those who are suffering from prolonged acute grief? It is in the medical field and a real problem that people just don't get over it as so many ppl seem to come across. then a severe Depression can set in and not go away. would like to hear your thoughts on this topic. thanks for your thoughts about grief and death.
laysea65 2 years ago
Just like any problem some do take longer but acute can change fast as others but some cases its takes longer.
It is correct with the medical field people never get over acute grief & depression because they think the cause is chemical imbalance which is totally incorrect but rather are the expressions of the mental constructions (internal representations) such as loses and other traumas.
But this process I am teaching it is addressing the real cause which is how & what you do inside.
HealingMagic 2 years ago
@HealingMagic Your dismissal of the medical field is most unwelcome and may have a poor effect on people who are being treated for such a depressive illness and read this comment. The medical field does not think that there is a chemical imbalance in the brain of people with grief; rather, it forms a small part of the model of how we view what that individual may be experiencing. I suggest you retract or clarify your comment for safety reasons.
TheMedicor 8 months ago
After the grief is over theres years of Internal Healing to be done then theres weeks of Counseling to help remotivate the person or persons who lost loved ones
Andylong99 2 years ago
Grief and healing can be fast in the hands of an expert.
HealingMagic 2 years ago
happy thanksgiving Rob :) Hope u have Fun and have a Safe Thanksgiving
Andylong99 2 years ago
yeah but its internal healing that begins for people who have lost loved ones like me and many others around the world from cancer and what not
Andylong99 2 years ago
His message seems to be be,,"Death happens. Get over it." This doesn;t help me.
martin31049 2 years ago 2
What response would help you? In essence Robert is not just saying get over it - he is asking how purposeful is it to be in pain and feel only sorrow or sadness about the one whom you clearly love and miss. Better surely to clear the pain and focus upon the positive memories you shared
animalfwend 2 years ago
Hi Robert,
This is very powerful, clear, helpful and to the point! Thanks a lot for the DVDs Grief & Loss Recovery, they are soooooo good. It gives words to my believes and tools to heal others. You are a great teacher!!!
I put the link of this video on my website. I want to share this with everyone!
Thanks a lot. Now I start with the DVDs The mind of a Healer Ill let you know!
eftholland 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Stop Being Fat ! Get Your 100% Free trial of our revolutionare diet supplement and see better and faster results Soonder you could imagine. Check my profile for more info
naturaldietbest 2 years ago
So we identify our "Yeah, but.." and tap it away as usual?
jdlejeune 2 years ago
Yes!!
HealingMagic 2 years ago
I don't think you've ever lost anyone who ever meant anything to you. Life has a way of slapping you in the face, with things you do not want to know or understand. Good luck dealing with it when you get the GIFT you never asked for.
thegrievingmother 2 years ago
The real gift is what you choose to keep in your mind and heart. They were never yours but come to leave you presents and you are the one who honors or dishonors what they have given you. Feeling bad hurts those who do it and then everyone else around. peace is making peace within
HealingMagic 2 years ago
thank you so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
janicedel 2 years ago 2
You are very welcome. Peace Robert
HealingMagic 2 years ago
Liked the concept at 7:20 that we are the "movie director" of what plays in our mind.
sunbeam7 2 years ago
is this guy a christian? just seems a bit of an odd combination with nlp dont ya think
TuRdSandwitch18 2 years ago
It is not a bad combination when you truly understand what Jesus taught. He taught about personal control, forgiveness and understanding how we process information. Surrounding to truth.
HealingMagic 2 years ago
I have been watching Robert Smith's videos for about a year. I had experienced the murder of a friend, my Father's suicide and the death of my mentor. I started tapping along with Robert's videos. I kept at it, I kept listening, I kept watching his videos. I started letting go of all the pain. I now have this amazing freedom to be happy. EFT works, it is a miracle and I wish my Dad had this tool before he killed himself. He could not cope with his grief and chose death. Please give Robert a try
happyhouseheyhey 2 years ago 6
I am so very honored to be apart of your healing and transformation. I am so proud of you. Peace is Yours & Tap on you for them as well. Peace Robert
HealingMagic 2 years ago
I am a grief counsellor for bereaved parents.
Do you suggest I tell my next client, a Mum of a dead 2 hour old baby that her thoughts are screwing her up and that she needs to have positive memories? Do I tell her that she is doing this to herself?
I wish your solution was that simple but God forbid you lose a young child, or your wife gives birth to a dead baby - then tell me that "stress and emotion is based on perception".
Human beings FEEL not just THINK!
Grief is immune to reason!!!
JodiShannon 2 years ago
My process is about releasing hurt emotions. I am giving my belief system in order to produce that healing.
You are 100% correct telling them to get over it doesn't work.
If you believe they will always suffer then they will-bad belief. In other cultures death is a celebration which is also based on their perceptions & of course emotions.
That is why I am addressing the emotions & the harmful beliefs so they leave with a peaceful connection with those who passed.
Making peace is good!
HealingMagic 2 years ago
Oranges are natural. Sheep are natural. body odour is natural. Death is natural- but is grief natural? or is it something that we learn to do? A bit like EFT, if we were so inclined perhaps
Discuss.
interstellarbella 2 years ago
I have no fear of death, but I hate the though of my partner and sons suffering torturous emotional pain if I died. I'd want them to to get along to Robert as quickly as possible. I'd rather look down ( or up ) and see them laughing than look and see them crying. I wouldn't want to wish that pain on my worst enemy. But that's just me, I don't need the validation of other peoples grief.
interstellarbella 2 years ago
It was actually good for me to experience the pain, because for me, it enabled me to move through my grief and let it go - the natural way. I'm not stuck in any way. I dealt with it, as billions of others have in the same fashion. In my opinion, you will be Forever wrong!
coltmont 2 years ago
You a Threat? Hardly! You have brainwashed yourself. In this life, whatever works for You. But when you try to pass it on to others who are not mentally sound, the results could be disasterous.
coltmont 2 years ago
In addition...I think the grief counseling community should be alerted to this site. To say there is no such thing as bereavement and pain in loss is pretty sick and could cause damage to uninformed and naive grievers. Tsk Tsk!!
coltmont 2 years ago
There is no good being produced in bereavement, pain, and suffering.
I am a threat only to those who want to keep the pain and suffering. Because I know it is a self inflicted act that hurts those who do it. It also hurts their children and loved ones. It causes illness and even more death. I don't believe is it healthy to keep it inside.
You do have that right to stay in it and practice it for as long as you wish but it is not good. I will never undo anything.
I wish you peace.
HealingMagic 2 years ago
Hey Mr. Healer With Attitude...You are afraid of your own humanity. I want to pity the poor misguided souls that feed into your tripe. Gee, I'm beginning to suspect you've never experienced a loss before. Just Wait!
coltmont 2 years ago
I have experienced many losses, my father, grandmother, two grandfathers, 22 yr. marriage so I am no stranger to it but I have to discover how to heal my heart. I understand your mission to pass on your beliefs of grief and pain but it isn't healthy. There is this one fact, we will all die and it is apart of life, those who have died are ok, but those who are left do have the choice to suffer, grieve, become depressed or to honor those who have passed & cherish those healing memories.
HealingMagic 2 years ago
There is nothing to "enjoy" about grieving. I have yet to meet anyone who reveled in it, though perhaps some people can get stuck. We are biologically wired to react to loss a certain way. The brain lags behind the reality and has to reconfigure its entire imprint to incorporate the loss into the person's identity. This takes TIME! Tapping my head and rubbing my gut is not going to make the pain disappear. It's only going to make me look FOOLISH! Sorry, there are no silly shortcuts.
coltmont 2 years ago
I suggest doing what works and in some cultures there is no grieving but celebration. I know the foolish will continue to do what doesn't work while smart people are willing to try something that works.
For you there is no shortcuts & the pain will be apart of your identity for a long time: Speaking of silly beliefs and foolish acts, so I guess it works well for you.
I would release the pain and remember all the good memories of those past because they are ok.
HealingMagic 2 years ago
hey healingmagic i got a question for u how do u seal a wound thats inside near the heart ??? for me when my cousin died i felt like i couldnt keep going and i felt a void that wouldnt seal how do i get the will to keep going ???
Andylong99 2 years ago
Your cousin left with you good memories & your attitude that you can't keep going is what is holding your back. It is a bad decision. You are choosing to be stuck & blaming his death as an excuse to be mean to yourself. They are OK it is you who needs help because of your bad decision. Go back & tap away the pain then honor the relationship by keeping the happy memories & good experiences in mind. Tormenting yourself with sadness, unforgiveness & anger you are just being mean. Tap for peace.
HealingMagic 2 years ago
Thanks. I've been studying EFT for about two years now. It has been effective for the most part. I do like the way you shorten the process so I'm not tapping 24/07. I am currently studying ways of avoiding having more traumatic or hurtful experiences and or at least minimizing them. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Can tapping be a benefit to what is to come as well as being able to let go of the past. Can it help me to handle and cope with new situations that may arise in everyday life?
perryjo 2 years ago
As, in not letting an experience get to the point to where I have to tap it away in the first place.
I understand the Law of Attraction reference saying that I will attract better things. However, new problems sort of filled in for the ones I tapped away and sometimes I feel like I'm back to the drawing board.
perryjo 2 years ago
Another snake oil salesman who doesn't know @#$% about grief and the natural healing process. How insulting!!!
coltmont 2 years ago
I know the healing process and others choose to do it the hard way. The LOOOOOOOONNNNNNGGG hard way because they like to enjoy the hurt and thinking that is a way of loving those who have passed but actually it hurts those who do it and their loved ones who are still around. Dishonors the relationship and the good they have left for us to heal. We do have many choices so make them wisely. peace and love
HealingMagic 2 years ago
My main question is, "There are so many traumatic experiences in life that I feel as if I will be tapping constantly, is it worth it?
Next, new horrible situations arise in everyday life....Tapping gets old after a while.
perryjo 2 years ago
You have two options. Keep your stuff inside and they attract more or tap them until are gone and with each step you become freer. Law of attraction is what you have within you will attract into your life. Clean is out so you will get better stuff no matter how long it takes because you are a worthy person.
HealingMagic 2 years ago
Robert, forgiveness is a key to healing,but I'm confused as to how one would forgive a pedophile who has assaulted a family member? How would one handle feelings toward such a person? Thanks. :)
arumseed 2 years ago
I wanted all to know how EFT helped me. 2007 I found my father with a gunshot to the head, with half the head gone.(Suicide)suffered from PSTD, panic attacks, I moved way across the country to get away,
In VA, I found a therapists who introduced me to EFT. Within weeks,night terrors gone,PSTD little harder, but from all this I healed..Today, I am ok. I have EFT to thank for all of this..And of course GOD !!
GwendolynsPeace 3 years ago 11
God bless you, GwendolynsPeace, that is an extremely difficult experience to live with and manage. (Yes, that's an understatement, but I want to stay with your new-found positive trajectory.) Thank you for sharing with us all! I wish for you many positive new experiences and memories...
kalasie7 3 years ago
When dealing with death and loss if the client develops fears and phobias after the death. do you start right off with the death and then tap out the others because they have become habits, or rituals, so we just look at them and then let them go?
jillybeme 3 years ago
The key to the changes is your belief system and how you create the changes within them. I do have the DVD set on how to address grief and loss. There is a real skill to making the changes. Every person is different and how they internalize their experiences.
HealingMagic 3 years ago
I found your site and have been watching and tapping! Amazing.
As for grief, when someone can nail the problem right back to the death of a loved one and then as the years go by develop fears and phobias, control issues etc. do you just go right directly to the root and then the others will take care of themselves? or do we work on the others after.
jillybeme 3 years ago
I suggest doing the ones that have the most emotions or all of them at the same time. There will be overlapping emotions.
HealingMagic 3 years ago
Please come to Washington state...PLEASE!
kindalynn 3 years ago
You can set up a seminar and I will come.
HealingMagic 3 years ago
I cannot thank you enough for you r work!
I wasnt able to heal form a clinical depression till I discovered a few days ago maybe the 4 best affirmations ever:
I love you
Im sorry
Please forgive me
I thank you
I repeated this affirmations over and over and over again till I healed completely. I tried everything for more than 2 years and the solutions was so simple.
ManuelConiliano 3 years ago
Focusing on the postiveness rather than the negative beliefs in your brain. It makes sense i have been in a relationship that diddnt work out- and i focused on the negativeness why it ddidnt work, which gives me the same results, so to change it, is to focus your thoughts and beliefs on the memories of the relationship i had, creating peace love and happiness for me, and whoever is around and wants to enter my energy field.
This is really interesting stuff.
Interesting video
Ryan4twenty 3 years ago
If you merely bury it, it will rise again in new shoes.
krav1ngfish 3 years ago
You have been listening to my words... "Memories never die, they only show up in another pair of shoes, and usually in a bigger meaner and uglier way." If they are bad.
HealingMagic 3 years ago
Been studying you carefully for a long time. You should be network TV, though, I would never catch/watch. But plenty of people would be helped greatly. We want to invite you to do a workshop in our city, Cincinnati.
krav1ngfish 3 years ago
so would this be when fears and phobias are developed, another pair of shoes? so do we go right to the death with the client first thing. if they come for the fears and phobias but then say they stared after the death of aq loved one
jillybeme 3 years ago
Yes, that is true and it has the snow ball effect. It is all internal process. It is a bad way to entertain oneself but sometimes we do.
HealingMagic 3 years ago
And even the shoes by that time are usually worn through and turned over.
krav1ngfish 3 years ago 3