MMR Vaccine and Autism: Vaccine Nihilism and Postmodern Science - Mayo Clinic Proceedings

[intricatic]

I think the problem comes to play whenever scientists try to use the very idea of certainty to describe the output of a skeptical practice - namely science. It's not so much the science and skepticism I, personally, have a problem with, it's the idea of statistical analysis, which I have as much trust for as George Orwell did. Also, large sums of money in the medical industry can raise suspicions just as much as it raises suspicions of politicians. I'm not anti-vax, but I'm not pro, either.

[Momsincharge]

If I were to send my child to school and find that someone has insisted putting their non vaccinated child into that school, I would find a private school that would insist on vaccinations.

[raytogh]

Yet the federal gov't has paid out probably 100 families for exactly this. BS!

[morepuppies]

Just read the paper. You fail to disclose that you are one of Merck's boys. From another paper:

"Disclosure: Gregory A. Poland, MD, has disclosed the following relevant financial relationships:

Served as an advisor or consultant for: Novarax; Merck & Co., Inc.; Avianax; Emergent BioSolutions; Theraclone Sciences; Liquidia Technologies, Inc.; Dynavax; PaxVax, Inc; Novartis Vaccines and Diagnostics; EMD Serono, Inc.

Received grants for clinical research from: Novavax; Merck & Co., Inc."

[intricatic]

@morepuppies You expect that he should have worked instead for a foodbank? People in science do science for companies. Some don't, but an overall majority do for lack of alternatives. Guilt by association is a fallacy for a reason.

[morepuppies]

I should just post the whole disclosure.

"Served as an advisor or consultant for: Novarax; Merck & Co., Inc.; Avianax; Emergent BioSolutions; Theraclone Sciences; Liquidia Technologies, Inc.; Dynavax; PaxVax, Inc; Novartis Vaccines and Diagnostics; EMD Serono, Inc.

Received grants for clinical research from: Novavax; Merck & Co., Inc."

Just found a copy of the paper you are talking about, and NOWHERE do you disclose that you are one of Merck's boys. Bad Doctor!

[morepuppies]

I should just post the whole disclosure.

"Served as an advisor or consultant for: Novarax; Merck & Co., Inc.; Avianax; Emergent BioSolutions; Theraclone Sciences; Liquidia Technologies, Inc.; Dynavax; PaxVax, Inc; Novartis Vaccines and Diagnostics; EMD Serono, Inc.

Received grants for clinical research from: Novavax; Merck & Co., Inc."

Just found a copy of the paper you are talking about, and NOWHERE do you disclose that you are one of Merck's boys. Bad Doctor!

[morepuppies]

Do you think it is appropriate to make a video like this, pushing MMR, while distorting risk and research, while failing to disclose that you consult for, and receive research funding from, Merck, who makes the MMR?

How much money have your received from Merck?

"Served as an advisor or consultant for: Novarax; Merck & Co., Inc.; Avianax; ...; Liquidia Technologies, Inc.; Dynavax; PaxVax, Inc; Novartis Vaccines ...

Received grants for clinical research from: Novavax; Merck & Co., Inc."

[morepuppies]

Dr. Poland, you do realize that MMR does not, nor has it ever, contained thimerosal, right?

[ArcanaKnight]

@morepuppies "MMR does not...contain thimerosal" He didn't say that MMR contained thimerosal, he was detailing the history of the anti-vax movement's claims. In fact, the UK only ever had one vaccine that contained thimerosal (it has since been removed), and their autism rate is comparable to the US's, yet that didn't stop the anti-vaxers from making their false claims. The autism rate has also been completely unaffected by falling vaccination rates, yet people still insist they're the cause.

[morepuppies]

And not giving MMR has had a "devastating health effect"?

Not one single measles death or long term health problem in the US in at least six years, and that is a devastating health effect?? 43% of the children in this country have a chronic illness. 18% have developmental disability. 10% have ADHD/ADD.  1% have full blown autism and you are wringing your hands about a disease that no one is dying from?

Neurological and autoimmune disease is rampant. Step into 2011.

[briankofke]

@morepuppies All very informative and well thought out comments. Thank you for stepping up and exposing these lying and ignorant so called "doctors" in their effort to make more money from big pharma via us as guinea pigs. This guy probably sleeps with Paul Offit.

[Gecko146]

@morepuppies Have you ever seen a child struck with congenital rubella syndrome? Have you ever seen a mumps outbreak in your community? Your egocentric nonsense has no bearing to the majority of children who get affected by these conditions due to poor vaccinations.

[morepuppies]

@Gecko146 So it is ok if vaccines cause autism and other brain damage, as long as children are not getting measles, mumps and rubella? And it is ok to mislead parents on the risk of brain damage from a vaccine, lie to them, as long as the ends justify it?

And who decides? If Dr. Poland thinks it is OK to be deceptive about vaccine risks to lower disease risk, that is fine with you? He decides because he is a medicine god?

[Gecko146]

@morepuppies Just because there is a definite connection between vaccines and adverse events with those 150 individuals with VICP, we should not over-generalize that vaccines lead to bad outcomes for all children. Millions of children are vaccinated every year and they do not have one adverse outcome except the little owie caused by the needle. There is nothing deceptive about going over risks and benefits with parents.

[morepuppies]

@Gecko146 There have been more than 2,500 cases in the VICP, not 150. And no one is saying that everyone has a bad outcome from vaccines. But there absolutely IS deception going on over vaccine risks. Parents are not informed.

I helped publish a book on the matter. Read Vaccine Epidemic and pay close attention to Chapter 18. I wrote a lengthy discussion of the misinformation given to parents and compare it to HHS own quiet admissions about vaccine damage, and the research itself.

[briankofke]

@Gecko146 I have not, and I have been in the medical comminity for a long time. Not to mention the fact that the IOM recently came out and admits that the MMR vaccine actually CAUSES measels. Rarely do kids die from mumps or rubella in the US, yet egocentric pricks like you think that you can use fear to scare others into putting their kids in harms way with big pharmas tainted vaccines. My mother, grandparents, and their parents all had mumps and measels and developed life long immunity.

[Gecko146]

@briankofke Sir. It's a live vaccine and not without its risk. The way you become so paranoid about rare occurrences that you cannot see the benefit of any medical intervention. What do you base it on? Your personal experiences and that of your close relatives? Really? Do you even know how to interpret a study? I honestly hope the extent of your involvement in the medical community is that of a desk clerk.

[briankofke]

@Gecko146 And what are the risks vs. benifits? Do you have any experience in the medical field, or are you ridiculing me with the "desk clerk" mantra to belittle my stance? What science are you going by? What studies? I have read all I can find, and all I can find are papaers rubber stamped by big pharma exects that use a revolving door between the CDC, WHO and many, many other agencies using tabacco science to profit from scare tacticts. I am no desk clerk.

[morepuppies]

And no, the mercury/autism connection has NOT been disproven. 74% of research into metals in vaccines and autism SUPPORTS a causal association!

And NO... research has NOT exonerated vaccines in autism, not by any stretch! In fact the ONLY study on the Hepatitis B vaccine shows it TRIPLES the autism rate in boys!

[morepuppies]

According to HHS Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, MMR causes encephalopathy (brain damage), the symptoms of which are:

1. Loss of eye contact

2. Not responding to anything but loud shouts

3. Seeming not to recognize family members and being disconnected from the world around them.

4. Often accompanied by seizures.

So it can't cause "autism" but it causes brain damage that looks exactly like "autism", which will be diagnosed as "autism"?

Do you even read your critics arguments?

[Gecko146]

@morepuppies Your symptoms are characteristic of anyone with any sort of encephalitis or brain injury. That does not make one Autistic per se. There is a difference.

[morepuppies]

@Gecko146 And yet CDC et. al. won't define the difference despite the demands of the vaccine safety community. And has admitted that autism is an outcome of vaccine encephalopathy.

150 cases of VICP compensated encephalopathy were surveyed and 40% of them were also autism cases.

My son got the DTaP Vaccine, displayed the symptoms of encep. and was then diagnosed with Autism. So which does he have? Vaccine brain damage or autism? Or both? Or is it the same damn thing?

Semantics.

[Gecko146]

@morepuppies I cannot question the diagnosis because I've never seen your son. I think the diagnosis often gets confused with moderate/severe intellectual disability (formerly Mental Retardation).

[morepuppies]

And the BS that the "British Medical Council" did NOT declare his work fraudlent. First, there is no "British Medical Council". There is the GMC, who said he had conflicts of interest, but never even CHARGED him with fraud. And there is the British Medical Journal, the newsletter of the British doctors union, who accused him of fraud, (or rather just printed the accusations of GSK/James Murdoch lacky Brian Deer), but NO FRAUD TRIAL OR CONVICTION!

[morepuppies]

Then why is the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program paying children for MMR induced autism? What about the admission by HRSA that MMR causes vaccine encephalopathy that results in autism? No.. not all the MMR studies have cleared the vaccine in autism causation.

It is videos like this, where docs are NOT telling, or even facing, the whole truth, that are destroying confidence in vaccines.

I will not give my son the MMR until you are liable for injury to him from it.

[briankofke]

Wakefield is a hero; BMJ is owned by Rupert Murdoch, and Brian Deer (a journalist, not a Dr.) was paid by Murdoch, who has strong ties to Big Pharma. You are either ignorant or lying, and neither is acceptable regarding this issue. You mention 20 studies, but forget to mention that all of the studies were funded by big pharma and conducted by people with conflicts of interest. You are right; ignorance is disgusting, and yours is impressive. MMR actually CAUSES measels, as admitted by the IOM.