StarCraft 2 - iNcontroL [P] vs Sheth [Z] G2 (Commentary)

[freshooom25]

Toss can't be a pro right? I seen that kinda of play in my league (silver) all the time... it never works against zerg if you don't transition to T3..

[TheDavearce]

ezshitcholesterol

[MichaelHSandy]

I was watching the overlords dropping their creep near the enemy base for adding responsiveness of the attack force, and I wonder if people have considered doing creep tumor harass. Send a queen to where an overlord is dropping creep near an enemy expansion, and drop a creep tumor. That would force an investment in observers/ravens/scans, and it would still take a while for the creep to go away.

[Aiphiae]

@MichaelHSandy They have done similar things to what you suggest but it's usually not worth the investment/risk/time. If they drop or nydus, you will often see a queen come along to slap down some tumors, as you suggest. It can be quite effective if Protoss skipped robo tech for something else like blink stalker, etc.

[MichaelHSandy]

@Aiphiae I saw a neat zerg trick where the tumor was placed on the high ground, and the overlord put a patch of creep on the cliff below, allowing the tumor to jump to the low ground, saving quite a bit of time expanding out, bypassing some hellions that were attempting a contain.

[Virility]

InControl, such a scrub. He hasn't done squat in forever. Resorting to trying to cannon hatches and cheesy play in a desperate attempt to get some sort of advantage. Maybe he should just macro up and play like good Protosses play - you know, the kind of style that requires skill.

Better yet, maybe he should just uninstall and concentrate on being a douchebag. He's at least good at that.

[ayersj14]

why he didn't get colossi or immortals either game is beyond me

[Medivh420]

SERIOUSLY FORCE why do you upload so many videos of sc2? is it because you get a consistant 4k views? because it has always sounded like in your voice you don't even want to do them, you don't even cast pro games or pro gamers. It seems like you watch the screen for 1 second out of every 5. Are you getting paid for this? Because it reminds me of the type of material I put out when i'm getting underpaid or undertaught.

[voskoff7]

@Medivh420 its for fun man i enjoy it and he just wants to. if your upset with the quality try it yourself. hate if you want but i doubt your willing to do better so go watch husky or HD. i like the mid level commentary cause its good for newer plyers to understand.

[TheTaosaur]

@Medivh420 Sheth and InControl aren't pro gamers? Not every game is going to be edge-of-your-seat, and I for one like that Force calls them like he sees them. He's done some great casts of some great games just this week. Hell, I enjoyed these casts. What are you coming around for, to watch Force play Skyrim?

[Medivh420]

hail force, the white crota, with his dedicated 4K fan base... you're no husky with his 100K fan base... maybe you should give away prizes?

[TheTaosaur]

@Medivh420 What are you sour about, man?

[Joshalith]

ive been watching quite a few pro games lately and ive noticed that there's just so little option that protoss players have against zerg, anything except a transition into colossi or HT from early pressure usually doesnt pay off, or comparatively it is more of an all-in strat where the protoss doesnt have any options left afterwards unless the zerg doesn't capitalise on the failed pressure - as it is protoss air is just underpowered unless en masse (like 200/200 even still can be hard countered)

[Virility]

@Joshalith what the fuck "hard counters" a 200/200 Protoss air army? I'd love to know. VRs beat corruptors for cost, mass VR even beats hydra. Phoenix (spread or microed) beat muta for cost. Mothership has cloak and vortex, which is pretty much a gg if it's cast in a good spot.

The only threat Zerg has to a 200/200 Protoss air army is infestors added to their army, which are easy as fuck to feedback (which also gives you templar for storm). So no, 200/200 Protoss air is never "hard countered".

[Joshalith]

@Virility ever look up mass corruptors vs anything? even without corrupt the corruptors hard counter any protoss air, as it is corruptors chase away phoenix easily and are a considerable threat to void rays which are supposed to be a counter to them but havent been so since the void ray patch about a month after sc2 came out. if the zerg micros at the same level as the toss the zerg will always win

[Joshalith]

@Virility the minimum amount of corruptors you need to counter a void ray is 2, no corruption for slightly higher cost and eventually this tapers off to the point where zerg will need less corruptors than void rays to counter. bitch please with the mothership idea, if the zerg has half a brain he will fly into it completely nullifying any effect it would normally have, HT are a different tech further supporting my argument that protoss air is so shit it has to rely on other tech to be useful

[Joshalith]

@Virility tell me, why do you think most pros transition out of air as soon as a hydra den or spire is built? sure there are rare games where they take a risk with phoenix against hydras and it pays off, but those games are few and far between, against corruptors as soon as a few start coming out stargate production is halted and usually if it wasn't all in then HT are used because corruptors counter colossi

[Virility]

@Joshalith Dude, don't call me "bitch" just because you disagree. Corruptors don't "hard counter" VRs at all: in equal cost VRs slaughter corruptors - period. VRs are also totally viable vs. mutas and with phoenix mixed in are nigh unstoppable. The problem is getting to that point - which is an entirely different issue.

As for the mothership or other tech (templar) you only need add those if the Zerg has alternate tech counters to your air - i.e. Infestor.

[Virility]

@Joshalith FYI, pros transition out of air because they'd rather get colossi which annihilate hydras with near impunity. Air is only meant to pressure and force weaker Zerg units while the Protoss goes for a 3rd. That doesn't mean it's useless - I've seen plenty of Zergs lose to Protoss air, it's just not "in style" right now; but that sure as shit doesn't mean that Zerg air "hard counters" Protoss air. Please, at *best* it's equal.

200/200 supply VR vs. corruptor leaves 12 VRs. Test it. I did.

[Virility]

@Joshalith I took the liberty of testing it for you to show you how completely wrong you are. 200/200 max supply armies (no workers), here's the result.

Muta vs. VR - 31 VRs remain

Corruptor vs. VR - 31 VRs remain

Hydra vs. VR - 53 VRs remain

It's not even close. Not even remotely close - in ANY of these MUs, and to top it off, everything dies so fast the VRs don't even get a chance to charge - which means they're not even full power.

So, no, Zerg air/hydras do not "hard counter" Protoss air.

[Peekayismad]

@Virility lmao you fail so hard. Voidrays cost three times more than mutas. If you had an tested with an even army value you would have seen that the mutas slaughter the voids. Before you talk complete shit and confuse other people, learn to play the game and use simple logic.

[Virility]

@Peekayismad Hey there genius, if you were as smart as you think you are you'd realize that I was building that scenario based on someone *else's* parameters. He said there was no way a 200 supply army of Protoss air can beat a 200 supply army of Zerg air. Cost is irrelevant and supply is what matters in that scenario. When tested, the Protoss annihilates the Zerg, no contest.

You wanna bitch about cost, go ahead - but it isn't related to what we were talking about. Read before you bitch.

[Aiphiae]

@Peekayismad Idiot. I love when fuckwits like you come on here and post about using "simple logic" when you're so fucking stupid you don't have the sense to see when you're the one failing to use said "simple logic."

Even if mutas cost 1 mineral, and VRs cost 1,000 minerals, they were talking about supply values. Mutas = 2, VRs = 3, the max supply is 200. What's the limiting factor there, moron?

Besides, in game, VRs do fine vs. muta and corruptor at equal cost AND/OR equal supply, idiot.

[Peekayismad]

@Aiphiae clearly if i had known and seen they were talking about a 200/200 supply army i wouldnt have talked about army cost, my humble apologies for not looking through 3 pages of comments to see exactly what they are talking about. and the last thing you said was so fucking wrong, lmao, mutas are very cost effective against voids and if you think otherwise us awful at this game xoxoxo

[Joshalith]

@Virility clearly i was wrong about the 200/200 scenario, but it's undeniable that the amount of resources, time and production required to reach a level where void rays can destroy anything is a lot higher than zerg, making it impossible in real games (i.e. games where people dont sit in their bases for 4 hours maxing out their armies and fighting with 0 micro) - you chose to focus on a small part of my original comment in parenthesis and hey you won but you can't deny i'm right about the rest

[GRedz3r]

The more professional PvZ's I watch the more I feel the game is controlled by the zerg from the get go. It is whether or not the zerg makes a mistake that he loses, not if the protoss plays a good game. Zerg can trololol their way to victory if the protoss doesn't pressure the 3rd before its saturated, and how can they do this? Cannons? Zealot rush? Easily scoutable and defendable. I feel a FFE is becoming a less reliable build and protoss needs some new openers.

[lgilreath]

@GRedz3r I agree with you completely. Protoss FFE is wayyy to predictable now. Im only diamond but it seems doing a 1 base pressure followed by an expo into 2 base timing attack is way better. I also hate late game PvZ because a large muta ball can harass at will. blink stalkers rarely catch up to them, and even after kill a few muta, the rest go harass elsewhere

[Virility]

@GRedz3r It isn't controlled by the Zerg at all. Not even remotely. Good Protoss players pressure consistently - that's what makes Zergs "make a mistake" as you say. You don't have to annihilate everything the Zerg has to pressure successfully, you just have to make them make units and chip away at them while you macro up.

Too many Protoss players are relying on these 2 base all-in styles that are just silly. If Zerg does a 2 base play, they lose too. Pressure, macro, get a third, win.

[tartarus216]

I don't like the losing player too much but this game made me feel bad for him.

[Virility]

@tartarus216 He was never very good. Don't feel bad for him for being consistent.

[NickMaovich]

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo­oat? Where is your's "how it's going on?". I have always answered it(((

[SorrowIV]

Anti Spoiler

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iNcontrol is so bad he tryed the cheezeist stuff in this game and sheth out played is so much!

[Dubs427]

i hope one day i too can make a spoiler free wall.. then i will be a man

[JeffWatersRules]

Im pretty sure anyone who cares about Sc2 has seen this map Force, it was the map of the year on TL

[masterofthor]

Force: I dont know that InControl wants to show that overlord before hand with those void rays. --- Overlord continues to move and is about to scout out that void ray.

Overlord down below: I think he was ready showed his void ray a bit earlier... we really got to know each other... jerk.

*dead*

6:30 - 6:53

[nickterlizzi]

I like the shark.

[ninearthify]

I've never seen INCONTROL win a single game, EVER, why would u cast a game of his ? he's TERRIBLE.

[chikenugets14]

Spoiler walls can only do so much...

If it's best out of three and there are two games, the player that won the first, will win the second.....

Though this doesn't work when there are three games, as the loser of the first can make a comeback in the last two. 

[zeoNRider]

USA starcraft 2 gaming scene is simply awful.

[kimuoi85]

I swear incontrol plays at a SEA platinum level

[Gremlin119]

Wow....incontrol needs to give it up already. Hes obviously way way worse than any other professional right now. Using gimicky strategies to make up for lack of skill. Cannon rush, into zealot voidray timing, into dark templar. I respect the guy and think hes good figure for e-sports but damn just give up already. watching this made me just cringe and realize how bad he is. >.< I dont wanna come off as a troll but this was just upsetting to watch.

[WolfeStar566599]

i would have at the very least taken out the expansion then use the sharge to tear thrw the hydras

[WolfeStar566599]

void rays channel the light of auir!!!!!!!!!

[armydawg1292]

zerg wins

[hermansung]

going DTs after void rays is a terrible idea. spores counter both

[RoyalzDevil]

Incontrol is SHIT.. HOW IS HE IN EG?

[WolfeStar566599]

@RoyalzDevil respect his ablity it was simple mistake he most likely could wipe the floor with u. so show some respect

[SenzafineEterno]

"Archon splash damage hurts the mutalisk." The way you said that, so concerned. I rolled. Thanks for the great cast and the laugh as well ^^.

[istolethiscamara]

zerg4life (sung in a beautiful acapella)

[Wreck5tep]

holy fuck incontrol is bad...

[KaloqnBankov]

Now i have to look what wingedzer0 said :)

[lordhuebi]

incontrol's micro is so bad ^^

[Amomentforever]

SEE FORCE VIDEO:

jizz in pants

[MegaDadada1]

U dont seem that well. Go take a rest.

[fastball2600]

It is a very little thing force, but I love the fact that you randomly comment on like the robots and other random objects around the map. It makes me laugh every time!

[BlaZe941025]

I want those spoilers dont thumbs up the wall -.-

[iliketha]

voidray into dt has got to be the worst transition imaginable, force him to build spore crawlers then send in the cloaked units??

[Super1080pGaming]

Thors won it for him

[waltermatthewberg]

incontrol is not incontrol

[carlssonn]

Why u no make normal thumbnail?

[Sp3wned]

I don't understand why he tried to make more DT after his first 3 failed so badly..

[Maxamix2]

@Sp3wned unless i missed something here, his DT were for archoon only

[Huuruk]

@Maxamix2 Nope, he also try to do some harassment (starting from 10:00 )

[ThePsionicMatrixTM]

@Sp3wned because he is EZshitiNcholesterol

[Amomentforever]

@ThePsionicMatrixTM I couldnt agree more.

[waltermatthewberg]

anyone interested in playing in tournaments should join begosu dot com. the next north america tournament is in a hour and there is only 4 people in it including myself. We need mo peeps

[caos1925]

what don't zerg go for pylons more often to powerdown everything like @ 5:10

[wingedzer0]

@caos1925 Haha i wonder what league you are, maybe in platinum you would go for the pylon, but because cannons have less health and he has so many zerglings there's more surface area on the cannons that have less health, where as the pylon on top of less area. additionally he has a cannon pressed against the pylon reducing lings ability to surround it.

[AquaTheFox]

@wingedzer0 I like how a simple question turns into a 'haha I wonder what league you are.' Whatever league he's in, he's less of a dick than you are bro. :)

[wingedzer0]

@AquaTheFox People like you make me sick, you have no understanding of anything, including life. Here's a lesson, we're all douche bags, we abuse this earth, we only tend to our own needs, and only have consideration for others when it benefits us, it just depends what kind of douche bag you want to be. Your the type of fuck face that thinks he legitimately a good person, when in actuality your a fagget for calling me out because that's no different then me calling him out. GJ BRO

[Psyshimmer]

@wingedzer0 You understand nothing. You likely believe everyone is a dick simply because you feel you're the standard yourself. You called out a guy for no reason, and thusly, were called out for being a dick. Calling someone out needlessly is a lot different than someone else calling you out for a lack of civility. Fuck face.

[wingedzer0]

@Psyshimmer i don't believe i'm a good person, i don't believe anyone is I just have problems with people like you who think SO MUCH of your self your going to intervene. I didn't call out a guy for no reason, someone asked a stupid question, and i corrected him.

go get hit by a bus irl and do evolution a favor.

[Psyshimmer]

@wingedzer0 Who said I thought SO MUCH of myself? I just think you're such a douche, I bothered to say something is all. I have problems with people like yourself who can't dictate themselves with any respect to others. The question may be stupid to you, but obviously not to him. Given the current state of the world, you'd be the one most suited to being removed from the gene pool.

[wingedzer0]

@Psyshimmer respect is earn, not given. The question is stupid because he was proposing a false conclusion. Given the current state of the worlds, im doing quite well LOLOL. I doubt u even read what i wrote, because when i tell someone their wrong i tell them why, i call that courtesy. Neither you nor the first post did anything except flame and troll. haters gunna hate.

[AquaTheFox]

@wingedzer0 y no happeh face bro?

y u so mad?

xD Seriously. You were a dick, you got called out for being a dick, and now you're trying to justify it. GG, BB.

[noJutsu1000]

@AquaTheFox shut up bronze league trash.

[leonorai]

@noJutsu1000 Go die in a fire you worthless waste of space.

[259]

@leonorai Troll league confirmed.

[AquaTheFox]

@noJutsu1000 O.o lawl? I didn't even say anything to you. xD



[JerryBlane]

lol @ the link

"FUAAAAAAAAAA"

[brookersfanggg]

i love game with zerg =)

[pawlesslol]

Actually the Supply Depo is there to prevent terran from making an early bunker there which is incredebly strong vs Zerg in the beginning. Theres loads of maps where making a pylon wall to the zerg ramp is possible to make.

[LightElementLord]

why they never go for the pylon since is only one?

[Peakaboo2k]

ShitControl lol

[ArmandGoPro]

SPOIL FREE WALL

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Your welcome ! :D

[randoomy]

@ArmandGoPro No, you're welcome.

[quicksliversbutt]

@ArmandGoPro It wasnt long enough...

[sinekonata]

@ArmandGoPro Quit spamming stupid walls, please!! I have self control, a spoiler alert in my head and this is just annoying to people like me...

[REDRAGON12345]

@ArmandGoPro *You're

[str8shot2020]

@ArmandGoPro thank u

[VanguardZen]

@ArmandGoPro Why!? What's up with my welcome?

[Balgore8]

I thought INControl played Terran? Guess i am remembering wrong.. Sheth is my favourite Zerg, so cutos for casting one of his games!

[JacksonLuke75]

@Balgore8 I thought he used to play zerg :L

[alzaeem5656]

here we go

[mariowinsall]

LAST!

[bigybop]

@mariowinsall MOST