Interesting point of view jnjnelson. The United States of America is quite the experimental capitalism. Do you really believe that the US had perfect competition, and perfect free markets accroding to capitalistic principles or is it a mixed economy? Many times the US has been facing a crisis of interest in terms of understanding and recognizing how to create a structural way of solving the current economic and fiscal crisis. Economic and fiscal crisis is a solvable thing.
Bremmer's take is interesting, and I don't yet have the necessary analytical skills to critique this video just yet. But I will say, on a small point, that I don't appreciate him conflating patriotism with xenophobia. Granted, a person who is xenophobic can be patriotic, and a xenophobic person can be patriotic. But he seems to view them as exact same concepts rather than possibly related concepts. If I'm mistaken and someone can understand his subtlety, please correct me.
How can it be the end of the free market when we have never had one. Essentially, economic policy over the last 200 years has been a collusion between government and big business. Government introduces regulations to help big business and squeeze small business, thus creating monopolies. In return, this big businesses bank roll the parties. It is corporatism, a soft fascism.
what is the problem with this presentation is it doesnt remind us of the primacy of currency value as a major power of states.
imbalance of currency is a deeper structural imbalance of power through the world. if he wants to talk about industrial ethics and values for the population, first equalize them. as they are, governments and business are both at the trough of injustice. open market or not, the price of humanity is what is being bought
WHO THE HECK WOULD LIKE TO BUY A BOOK WRITTEN BY A GUY THAT IS MORE FOCUSED ON THE STUBBING ANOTHER GUY IN THE BACK AND QUICKER THAN THE OPPONENT INSTEAD OF WORKING CONSTRUCTIVELY.
they haven't stolen those technologies since those companies need to hand over their documents to have their patents protected, and they respect ip right protection since they pay patent fees, you stupid idiot. LOL
Capitalism NEVER failed - globalist corp statist tyrants stole it from us and put us right smack where we are today.
It is the forcing of THEIR plans for OUR lives upon us to humanity's gross detriment. Totally immoral & opposite to the Golden Rule. Harm no man, then do as you will. This crap is funded by NWO globalist dictator wannabe's - REJECT THEIR decivilizing and dehumanizing goals opposing 100% self ownership and the preexisting natural rights to pursue our own happiness unmolested.
There have NO free markets in over 100yrs. Progressive corporate statists largely took over govts and corrupted them to their own evils ends, of which the wars they created both enriched them and helped cow the people to going along.
Free markets are the mechanism w/which man raised himself out of subsistence by voluntary exchange, property rights (sound money is one - vs the 2 cent dollar of FED debt and blood money shylocks thefts) and the non-aggression of mutually beneficial free trade
The rise of gulf states rely significantly on petroleum. Doesn't that mean that the success of the economies of the guld states is relatively unimportant or "unreliable"? The success of China's economy is intertwined with the United States. So isn't China's success also irrelevant? Do we really need to fear China's eceonomic growth when we are the source? But then again I am not an expert. I certainly need to read Ian Bremmer's book.
Freedom of enterprise was from the beginning not a blessing. As the liberty to work or to starve, it spelled toil, insecurity, and fear for the vast majority of the population. If the individual were no longer compelled to prove himself on the market, as a free economic subject, the disappearance of this kind of freedom would be one of the greatest achievements of civilization. The technological processes of mechanization might release energy into a yet uncharted freedom beyond necessity-Marcuse
All this is about is how cultures are slow to change and want to cling on to old ideals that are provably destructive and inefficient. They want to try to fix or improve fundamentally flawed systems. What people need to wake up to is it's the majority of the population that will suffer while the wealthy keeps us complacent while they live extremely well. Jobs are obsolete simply because the practice of selling ones labor is not sustainable. There is not enough jobs to go around, period.
China (the government) is out of the red fiscaly (no pun intended) but the quality of individual life is atrocious. In order to produce the revenue it has, the Chinese govt. has taken over lands and enslaved its rural youths. (For an indepth explination on this read Peter Navarro's "The Coming China Wars". (He is a genious econ professor at Harvord). It is an absolute tyrranical horror! The American south was very wealthy during slave days. Is that an econ. justification for what was done?!
To speak of the free market without mentioning the criminality of the central bankers makes this 20 minute diatribe defunct and simply masturbatorial - he may speak well but he is simply a cunt
I've tried to watch this but I can't make heads or tails of this: is he saying the "free-market" consolidated Rollerball type era is a good thing, or at least better than modern "state capitalism"? Why did the "free-market" period end? Probably because people didn't want it. He says the state can tame corporation, how does he know the public wont press for alternative institutions in the government?
_
The govt has always steered markets - so I'm lost. Maybe new markets will be democratic.
Compelling speaker. Not sure if 20 minutes was sufficient to explore nuance but this seemed to be a semantic argument rather than a contrast and compare. State capitalism vs. socialism vs. free market are all ideals (rather than realizable states) along the same continuum. Why would they be incompatible or diametrically opposed that we cannot create non-zero sum trade relationships?
The end of the free market is not enough. None of the "-isms" of our economic system are enough. The solution has to be a resource-based economy. The Zeitgeist Movement and The Venus Project are the only organizations that get to the root of the problem. Check them out. It'll change your life.
Do not underestimate this movement which is indeed one of the few that are trying to understand and examine the root causes of our problems. It's claim is not yet to fully understand the root causes.
@hanspanzer its mostly conspiracy theory. the zeitgeist movement can't give me real proof, they are no better than the 2012 and Zionist believers. lets not waste time with conspiracies, lets look at the real facts and real reasons why capitalism and free trade don't work when applied the ways they have been for the past 45-50 years. I understand people who believe this have their hearts in the right places usually but you discredit yourself by believing in conspiracy theories, etc.
well, obviously you are referring to Zeitgeist - the movie. The movement isn't about conspiracy theories and the drive of the foundation wasn't to discuss them. the movement is about a new type of economy (the venus project). Crazy as I am, i'm studying economics. ;-)
@hanspanzer Study America's true history of the nexus of power elites, govt, our money at mises period org.
7TBs of free online publishing on liberty in video, audio, books incl OOP, blogs and journals.
Free enterprise, voluntary exchange and property rights is the moral way to wealth accumulation vs the immoral theft that is the political way of nonproducing parasites of govt and its extra-privileged pets.
@marxbitesall you do not understand the basics of government theory. learn about the british enlightenment. brush up on the logic of working together as a society, and the problems of individualism in resource markets. government defintely has problems in secrecy. you think individuals outside of it dont? i am not sure but it seems you have been dogmatized by anti-government ideas that prey on people's desire to retract their own investment and resonsibility to society.
@unwashedmime capitalism and free trade never "worked," laissez faire was a disaster in the 19th century, capitalism "worked" in that it was better than the existing model of feudalism
@ahuj89 don't get me wrong, north america needs socialism and i'm in no way a supporter of capitalism or free trade. I'm just saying, it has gotten a whole lot worse.
Any of the Europeans have less of a trust in their government than the Chinese? The Nordic countries like Sweden have a 80% trust from the people in the government according to the Eurobarometer, and only slightly above 50% vote for the block in power.
@cosy18 I'm not sure if you are being dismissive or are making a bad joke. Even if that was the case (and it's not) then in a binary relationship like "Do you trust the government?" you could knowing that 75% of the people lie, and adjust that portion to the right answer.
@jpiv100 Hey man I'm totally for a resource based economy but heres a tip for you, don't tell everyone that they are fucking stupid if you want people to listen to you. You are just doing more harm them good when you start flaming others and then in turn try and pawn off your ideals to others.
@addiktion13 Nah im not trying to get people to listen to me. I felt the urge to call everyone fucking stupid....sorta like how i feel the urge to tell you that due to my Magnanimous magnanimity and my nefariously pugnacious soul i joined in spawning with the woman who spawned a spawned of you
In other words i Had hardcore sex with you're mother.
Oh and as for the Recourse-based-economy thing. I dont bealive in that, i feel bad that you're for it. Its something thats simply not gonna happen.
@jpiv100 Are you a eighteen or younger? I ask because I haven't heard old school mother jokes in ages. I guess its kind of cool because you decided to throw in a bunch of large vocabulary words to try and balance out your comments immaturity. Either way I'm not going to stoop to your level and throw out insulting remarks but that's totally fine that you don't believe in a resource based economy and I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you otherwise.
interesting stuff obama is a socalist. he has a known history of being associated with socalist. He has appointed 2 socalist or radicals to the supreem court. the taking over of 50% of the us economy is a socalist act. The feds have NEVER ran a enterprise that made a proffit. and have a severe abuse history of power. The usa is soo to be in the mist of another civil war as several states are begining to ignore washintons demands and pass there own laws ie arizona utah ok tenn montana S, dakota
@anthonyww713 There are a lot of inaccuracies in this post, but the one I would like to point out is the presumption that states creating their own laws is illegal or revolutionary. It is, in fact, a perfectly legitimate action encouraged by the Constitution that has been going on for years. : )
"Who's doing well coming out of the global recession?" . The big assumption is that the recession is over. . When the US dollar starts into hyperinflation, when the Euro begins to unravel, when China discovers they don't have customers to hide their inefficiency... . He also pretends the US banks "ran themselves". Banking has been heavily regulated and government run since the founding of the Federal Reserve. . Who is this clown? . For economics, visit YouTube-com/user/misesmedia
@Ian Bremmer, Hey, clown, you complain that a "free market" has no regulation?
.
The free market has the strongest regulation of all: Failure.
,
Without the state, AIG fails. Goldman Sacs fails. BP fails. That's effective regulation, and no wonder they want government to "regulate" them by preventing competition and providing bailouts.
@CurtHowland Yeah, and without the state, what happens when entire industries fail? A mass of unemployed people powerless and desperate, turning to crime to survive. The free market depends on endless growth, and it is pure idiocy to think that the failure this ingrained flaw inevitably causes is "regulation". Workers should not (and do not need to be, realistically speaking) victims of the greed and selfish risks taken by the marketeers. Fuck you and your capitalist ideology, ass.
@OHiOfiOviriiO "what happens when entire industries fail?"
.
The employees of failed companies get jobs in companies that didn't fail. Just like always.
.
Workers should not {be} victims of the greed and selfish risks taken by the marketeers.
.
No problem. Don't work for someone who takes risks, don't work in risky industries.
.
Employers have to compete to get/keep good workers. Risk aversion is why Alaska crab fisherman make so much money. Do you think the owners -want- to pay that much?
@OHiOfiOviriiO "Fuck you and your capitalist ideology, ass."
.
If you're not starving in the dark, thank a capitalist.
.
If you like eating corn in December, thank a capitalist.
.
If you like having a computer, an ISP, YouTube, and the clothes on your back, thank a whole bunch of capitalists.
.
Your labor fantasies are cute on paper, but you need to open your eyes and look at the real world. Without both labor and entrepreneurs (capitalists) working together, you have NOTHING.
@CurtHowland Entrepreneurship does not necessarily denote capitalism. The most creative people or ingenious inventors, engineers, entrepreneurs do so because they enjoy doing it. Making money is simply a bi-product of their passion, not the driving force.
@dalamarmajere "Entrepreneurship does not necessarily denote capitalism."
.
It is the bringing together of diverse resources to achieve goals, and more efficient use of those resources.
.
That kind of calculation can only occur with private property, a hallmark of capitalism.
.
That you instantly jump to the conclusion that it must only involve money, or the making of money, is putting a limitation on the idea that I never intended.
Do people understand that China has been under state capitalism basically since Mao died? They reached thier state of corporatism through a reverse evolution from the US experience. The Communistic government spawned mega-corporations for the purpose of market control. In the US, it's the mega-corporations that are taking over the government for the purpose of market control. These days, the whole purpose of both the Chinese and US governments is control of wealth and, by extension, lives.
@watcher8o Just about all of China's major industrial and financial institutions are state-owned and government run. As are the largest American corporations like; Boeing, IBM, although not state-owned they are entirely publicly funded and government run, the American agriculture business is entirely state-owned. R&D is also run by the US government at places like MIT and Harvard etc. and is the core of our economy.
@jnjnelson all these modern day rabble anarchists (as opposed to real anarchists and marxists with principles) need to drop this tautology. the words corporatism and tyranny as they're used all the time in these conversations are empty words that they fill up with problems that do not actually come from the 'enemies', but growth and shrink forces of their economies. nobody is the tyrant of 'making' you earn money to support yourself and your interests. you simply have to. that's nature.
@tyrannicoystercult The words corporatism and tyranny are no more nor less empty than any of your words. You argument could be used to stifle all conversation of any kind. I respectfully disagree.
@jnjnelson i am with the struggle i just believe there are more productive ways of doing critique than saying 'hey its a CORPORATIST setup' which really means nothing. it means that prouction is split up and coordinated. the sapping of the labor bartering process through imbalance of int'l labor laws and further imbalanced currency exchange is a more informative testable line of reasoning. without detail, statements are only 'outcry' not critique. statements are useless without detail, material.
Interesting point of view jnjnelson. The United States of America is quite the experimental capitalism. Do you really believe that the US had perfect competition, and perfect free markets accroding to capitalistic principles or is it a mixed economy? Many times the US has been facing a crisis of interest in terms of understanding and recognizing how to create a structural way of solving the current economic and fiscal crisis. Economic and fiscal crisis is a solvable thing.
MrMcfly102 2 months ago
Bremmer's take is interesting, and I don't yet have the necessary analytical skills to critique this video just yet. But I will say, on a small point, that I don't appreciate him conflating patriotism with xenophobia. Granted, a person who is xenophobic can be patriotic, and a xenophobic person can be patriotic. But he seems to view them as exact same concepts rather than possibly related concepts. If I'm mistaken and someone can understand his subtlety, please correct me.
buffysummersfanboy 9 months ago
This guy is just a professional bullshiter...
branko1408 11 months ago 2
@branko1408 Yeah, pretty much.
EclecticSceptic 10 months ago
How can it be the end of the free market when we have never had one. Essentially, economic policy over the last 200 years has been a collusion between government and big business. Government introduces regulations to help big business and squeeze small business, thus creating monopolies. In return, this big businesses bank roll the parties. It is corporatism, a soft fascism.
TheHayekian 1 year ago
what is the problem with this presentation is it doesnt remind us of the primacy of currency value as a major power of states.
imbalance of currency is a deeper structural imbalance of power through the world. if he wants to talk about industrial ethics and values for the population, first equalize them. as they are, governments and business are both at the trough of injustice. open market or not, the price of humanity is what is being bought
tyrannicoystercult 1 year ago
@tyrannicoystercult very well said.
shaolinkin 10 months ago
WHO THE HECK WOULD LIKE TO BUY A BOOK WRITTEN BY A GUY THAT IS MORE FOCUSED ON THE STUBBING ANOTHER GUY IN THE BACK AND QUICKER THAN THE OPPONENT INSTEAD OF WORKING CONSTRUCTIVELY.
misiobear77 1 year ago
I don't really want to get into it but this guy really over anticipates how much influence state capitalism has.
meleszenawi1111 1 year ago
they haven't stolen those technologies since those companies need to hand over their documents to have their patents protected, and they respect ip right protection since they pay patent fees, you stupid idiot. LOL
WavesOfTrolls 1 year ago
Capitalism NEVER failed - globalist corp statist tyrants stole it from us and put us right smack where we are today.
It is the forcing of THEIR plans for OUR lives upon us to humanity's gross detriment. Totally immoral & opposite to the Golden Rule. Harm no man, then do as you will. This crap is funded by NWO globalist dictator wannabe's - REJECT THEIR decivilizing and dehumanizing goals opposing 100% self ownership and the preexisting natural rights to pursue our own happiness unmolested.
marxbitesall 1 year ago
There have NO free markets in over 100yrs. Progressive corporate statists largely took over govts and corrupted them to their own evils ends, of which the wars they created both enriched them and helped cow the people to going along.
Free markets are the mechanism w/which man raised himself out of subsistence by voluntary exchange, property rights (sound money is one - vs the 2 cent dollar of FED debt and blood money shylocks thefts) and the non-aggression of mutually beneficial free trade
marxbitesall 1 year ago
The rise of gulf states rely significantly on petroleum. Doesn't that mean that the success of the economies of the guld states is relatively unimportant or "unreliable"? The success of China's economy is intertwined with the United States. So isn't China's success also irrelevant? Do we really need to fear China's eceonomic growth when we are the source? But then again I am not an expert. I certainly need to read Ian Bremmer's book.
BrianLeexx 1 year ago
Freedom of enterprise was from the beginning not a blessing. As the liberty to work or to starve, it spelled toil, insecurity, and fear for the vast majority of the population. If the individual were no longer compelled to prove himself on the market, as a free economic subject, the disappearance of this kind of freedom would be one of the greatest achievements of civilization. The technological processes of mechanization might release energy into a yet uncharted freedom beyond necessity-Marcuse
dontblockmedk 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"Free market" is impossible because
1. how do you keep the people on top from controlling everyone without regulating them?
2. how do you make sure everyone at the bottom is fed and clothed?
ANSWER
1. FREELY Share ALL resources and knowledge worldwide, NO more money/property
2. Use LATEST technology to create an ABUNDANCE of all our needs, NO more scarcity, waste or theft
3. Automate/localize ALL production and distribution, NO more wage slavery
v=YxPPnCW6sMo
v=yPmHaTirnCc
dontblockmedk 1 year ago
All this is about is how cultures are slow to change and want to cling on to old ideals that are provably destructive and inefficient. They want to try to fix or improve fundamentally flawed systems. What people need to wake up to is it's the majority of the population that will suffer while the wealthy keeps us complacent while they live extremely well. Jobs are obsolete simply because the practice of selling ones labor is not sustainable. There is not enough jobs to go around, period.
moety2 1 year ago
China (the government) is out of the red fiscaly (no pun intended) but the quality of individual life is atrocious. In order to produce the revenue it has, the Chinese govt. has taken over lands and enslaved its rural youths. (For an indepth explination on this read Peter Navarro's "The Coming China Wars". (He is a genious econ professor at Harvord). It is an absolute tyrranical horror! The American south was very wealthy during slave days. Is that an econ. justification for what was done?!
Joefest99 1 year ago
Its so naive to expect no state interference in its citizen's lives.
tofucyborg 1 year ago
To speak of the free market without mentioning the criminality of the central bankers makes this 20 minute diatribe defunct and simply masturbatorial - he may speak well but he is simply a cunt
tiarnan76 1 year ago
"Capitalism should not be condemned, since we haven’t had capitalism. A system
of capitalism presumes sound money, not fiat money manipulated by a central
bank. Capitalism cherishes voluntary contracts and interest rates that are
determined by savings, not credit creation by a central bank. It’s not
capitalism when the system is plagued with incomprehensible rules regarding
mergers, acquisitions, and stock sales...
tiarnan76 1 year ago
.... along with wage controls, price controls, protectionism, corporate subsidies, international management of
trade, complex and punishing corporate taxes, privileged government contracts
to the military-industrial complex, and a foreign policy controlled by
corporate interests and overseas investments. Add to this centralized federal
mismanagement of farming, education, medicine, insurance, banking and welfare.
This is not capitalism!"
-- Ron Paul
tiarnan76 1 year ago
we need free
market
money
along with no government interference
amitp2 1 year ago
I've tried to watch this but I can't make heads or tails of this: is he saying the "free-market" consolidated Rollerball type era is a good thing, or at least better than modern "state capitalism"? Why did the "free-market" period end? Probably because people didn't want it. He says the state can tame corporation, how does he know the public wont press for alternative institutions in the government?
_
The govt has always steered markets - so I'm lost. Maybe new markets will be democratic.
successfulbuild 1 year ago
Compelling speaker. Not sure if 20 minutes was sufficient to explore nuance but this seemed to be a semantic argument rather than a contrast and compare. State capitalism vs. socialism vs. free market are all ideals (rather than realizable states) along the same continuum. Why would they be incompatible or diametrically opposed that we cannot create non-zero sum trade relationships?
oldtreeplanter11 1 year ago
The end of the free market is not enough. None of the "-isms" of our economic system are enough. The solution has to be a resource-based economy. The Zeitgeist Movement and The Venus Project are the only organizations that get to the root of the problem. Check them out. It'll change your life.
ejohnp90 1 year ago
@ejohnp90 LOL ZEITGEIST MOVEMENT.
unwashedmime 1 year ago
@unwashedmime
Do not underestimate this movement which is indeed one of the few that are trying to understand and examine the root causes of our problems. It's claim is not yet to fully understand the root causes.
hanspanzer 1 year ago
@hanspanzer its mostly conspiracy theory. the zeitgeist movement can't give me real proof, they are no better than the 2012 and Zionist believers. lets not waste time with conspiracies, lets look at the real facts and real reasons why capitalism and free trade don't work when applied the ways they have been for the past 45-50 years. I understand people who believe this have their hearts in the right places usually but you discredit yourself by believing in conspiracy theories, etc.
unwashedmime 1 year ago
@unwashedmime
well, obviously you are referring to Zeitgeist - the movie. The movement isn't about conspiracy theories and the drive of the foundation wasn't to discuss them. the movement is about a new type of economy (the venus project). Crazy as I am, i'm studying economics. ;-)
hanspanzer 1 year ago
@hanspanzer Study America's true history of the nexus of power elites, govt, our money at mises period org.
7TBs of free online publishing on liberty in video, audio, books incl OOP, blogs and journals.
Free enterprise, voluntary exchange and property rights is the moral way to wealth accumulation vs the immoral theft that is the political way of nonproducing parasites of govt and its extra-privileged pets.
marxbitesall 1 year ago
@marxbitesall you do not understand the basics of government theory. learn about the british enlightenment. brush up on the logic of working together as a society, and the problems of individualism in resource markets. government defintely has problems in secrecy. you think individuals outside of it dont? i am not sure but it seems you have been dogmatized by anti-government ideas that prey on people's desire to retract their own investment and resonsibility to society.
tyrannicoystercult 1 year ago
@unwashedmime capitalism and free trade never "worked," laissez faire was a disaster in the 19th century, capitalism "worked" in that it was better than the existing model of feudalism
ahuj89 1 year ago
@ahuj89 don't get me wrong, north america needs socialism and i'm in no way a supporter of capitalism or free trade. I'm just saying, it has gotten a whole lot worse.
unwashedmime 1 year ago
Any of the Europeans have less of a trust in their government than the Chinese? The Nordic countries like Sweden have a 80% trust from the people in the government according to the Eurobarometer, and only slightly above 50% vote for the block in power.
kitsunde 1 year ago
@kitsunde also 75% of ppl lie on pools
cosy18 1 year ago
@cosy18 I'm not sure if you are being dismissive or are making a bad joke. Even if that was the case (and it's not) then in a binary relationship like "Do you trust the government?" you could knowing that 75% of the people lie, and adjust that portion to the right answer.
kitsunde 1 year ago
You guys are all fucking stupid. RECOURSE-BASED-ECONOMY'S FOR THE WIN!!!!
jpiv100 1 year ago
@jpiv100 Hey man I'm totally for a resource based economy but heres a tip for you, don't tell everyone that they are fucking stupid if you want people to listen to you. You are just doing more harm them good when you start flaming others and then in turn try and pawn off your ideals to others.
addiktion13 1 year ago 3
@addiktion13 Nah im not trying to get people to listen to me. I felt the urge to call everyone fucking stupid....sorta like how i feel the urge to tell you that due to my Magnanimous magnanimity and my nefariously pugnacious soul i joined in spawning with the woman who spawned a spawned of you
In other words i Had hardcore sex with you're mother.
Oh and as for the Recourse-based-economy thing. I dont bealive in that, i feel bad that you're for it. Its something thats simply not gonna happen.
jpiv100 1 year ago
@jpiv100 Are you a eighteen or younger? I ask because I haven't heard old school mother jokes in ages. I guess its kind of cool because you decided to throw in a bunch of large vocabulary words to try and balance out your comments immaturity. Either way I'm not going to stoop to your level and throw out insulting remarks but that's totally fine that you don't believe in a resource based economy and I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you otherwise.
addiktion13 1 year ago
This guy has no understanding how economies work or why they work in the macroscopic sense.
Navila1 1 year ago
What exactly is it that Japan is doing that's bad, and what condition are they in currently that makes it bad? I'm just asking cause I don't know.
TheWolfWolford 1 year ago
interesting stuff obama is a socalist. he has a known history of being associated with socalist. He has appointed 2 socalist or radicals to the supreem court. the taking over of 50% of the us economy is a socalist act. The feds have NEVER ran a enterprise that made a proffit. and have a severe abuse history of power. The usa is soo to be in the mist of another civil war as several states are begining to ignore washintons demands and pass there own laws ie arizona utah ok tenn montana S, dakota
anthonyww713 1 year ago
@anthonyww713 There are a lot of inaccuracies in this post, but the one I would like to point out is the presumption that states creating their own laws is illegal or revolutionary. It is, in fact, a perfectly legitimate action encouraged by the Constitution that has been going on for years. : )
inertiainfinity 1 year ago
CurtHowland 1 year ago
@Ian Bremmer, Hey, clown, you complain that a "free market" has no regulation?
.
The free market has the strongest regulation of all: Failure.
,
Without the state, AIG fails. Goldman Sacs fails. BP fails. That's effective regulation, and no wonder they want government to "regulate" them by preventing competition and providing bailouts.
.
You are no economist, Ian. You are a hack.
CurtHowland 1 year ago
@CurtHowland Yeah, and without the state, what happens when entire industries fail? A mass of unemployed people powerless and desperate, turning to crime to survive. The free market depends on endless growth, and it is pure idiocy to think that the failure this ingrained flaw inevitably causes is "regulation". Workers should not (and do not need to be, realistically speaking) victims of the greed and selfish risks taken by the marketeers. Fuck you and your capitalist ideology, ass.
OHiOfiOviriiO 1 year ago
@OHiOfiOviriiO "what happens when entire industries fail?"
.
The employees of failed companies get jobs in companies that didn't fail. Just like always.
.
Workers should not {be} victims of the greed and selfish risks taken by the marketeers.
.
No problem. Don't work for someone who takes risks, don't work in risky industries.
.
Employers have to compete to get/keep good workers. Risk aversion is why Alaska crab fisherman make so much money. Do you think the owners -want- to pay that much?
CurtHowland 1 year ago
@OHiOfiOviriiO "Fuck you and your capitalist ideology, ass."
.
If you're not starving in the dark, thank a capitalist.
.
If you like eating corn in December, thank a capitalist.
.
If you like having a computer, an ISP, YouTube, and the clothes on your back, thank a whole bunch of capitalists.
.
Your labor fantasies are cute on paper, but you need to open your eyes and look at the real world. Without both labor and entrepreneurs (capitalists) working together, you have NOTHING.
CurtHowland 1 year ago
@CurtHowland Entrepreneurship does not necessarily denote capitalism. The most creative people or ingenious inventors, engineers, entrepreneurs do so because they enjoy doing it. Making money is simply a bi-product of their passion, not the driving force.
dalamarmajere 1 year ago
@dalamarmajere "Entrepreneurship does not necessarily denote capitalism."
.
It is the bringing together of diverse resources to achieve goals, and more efficient use of those resources.
.
That kind of calculation can only occur with private property, a hallmark of capitalism.
.
That you instantly jump to the conclusion that it must only involve money, or the making of money, is putting a limitation on the idea that I never intended.
CurtHowland 1 year ago
meh ...
BS video is BS
greenhell666 1 year ago 2
@greenhell666 How intelligent and insightful.
dipic7 1 year ago
Do people understand that China has been under state capitalism basically since Mao died? They reached thier state of corporatism through a reverse evolution from the US experience. The Communistic government spawned mega-corporations for the purpose of market control. In the US, it's the mega-corporations that are taking over the government for the purpose of market control. These days, the whole purpose of both the Chinese and US governments is control of wealth and, by extension, lives.
watcher8o 1 year ago 28
@watcher8o Just about all of China's major industrial and financial institutions are state-owned and government run. As are the largest American corporations like; Boeing, IBM, although not state-owned they are entirely publicly funded and government run, the American agriculture business is entirely state-owned. R&D is also run by the US government at places like MIT and Harvard etc. and is the core of our economy.
Bellantoni 1 year ago
@watcher8o Mao's China has always been state capitalist. Deng Xiayopeng brought Neoliberalism to China.
Tougemaster06 1 year ago
State capitalism = corporatism. Corporatism is just another form of tyranny.
jnjnelson 1 year ago 17
@jnjnelson For a good breakdown of "corporatism", I recommend "Hamilton's Curse" by Tom DiLorenzo.
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Great book.
CurtHowland 1 year ago
@jnjnelson all these modern day rabble anarchists (as opposed to real anarchists and marxists with principles) need to drop this tautology. the words corporatism and tyranny as they're used all the time in these conversations are empty words that they fill up with problems that do not actually come from the 'enemies', but growth and shrink forces of their economies. nobody is the tyrant of 'making' you earn money to support yourself and your interests. you simply have to. that's nature.
tyrannicoystercult 1 year ago
@tyrannicoystercult The words corporatism and tyranny are no more nor less empty than any of your words. You argument could be used to stifle all conversation of any kind. I respectfully disagree.
jnjnelson 1 year ago
@jnjnelson i am with the struggle i just believe there are more productive ways of doing critique than saying 'hey its a CORPORATIST setup' which really means nothing. it means that prouction is split up and coordinated. the sapping of the labor bartering process through imbalance of int'l labor laws and further imbalanced currency exchange is a more informative testable line of reasoning. without detail, statements are only 'outcry' not critique. statements are useless without detail, material.
tyrannicoystercult 1 year ago
@jnjnelson totally man.. the perfect example of totalitarianism.. hitler and mussloni would be happy to see this.
SuffocateJav90 1 year ago