England v Scotland 1971

[tigerarmyrule]

Look at Cormack the Scot's 11. In his physique and way of moving the image of George Best. Nowhere near as good of course but remarkable similarity.

[sTokezzzzzz]

ya english scumbags

[mysparerib]

Looked like a total dicking for our Caledonian cousins

[danjsy]

cheating jocks

[99mercedes99]

Where is Rooney?

[overner2001]

Ah memories! I personally recall this period as a decline for England from the dizzy heights of 1966, 1968 (when we reached the semis of the European Championships) and above all 1970. Despite the fact that we had some outstanding individuals in the 1970s to replace the world cup winners we did not seem to work as a team.... hence the disappointments of 74, 76, 78 and 80.

[MrBillyt12345]

@overner2001 and a decline from 1967 when scotland went to wembley and ripped the world cup winners apart!!!!

[benalchemist74]

how small is that ball?

[StLandrew1958]

Notice Alan Ball in WHITE BOOTS..?

All those years ago, and for a long while he was pretty much the only one

[2008Sameoldfitup]

roy west

[newportgwentdragons]

Peter Storey was a very under rated player, hardly ever mentioned amongst the Arsenal team of that time.

[garlicandchips1]

chivers should of been picked regular . somehere amongst the 100,000 is me, both teams had brilliant players around that era. shame we only have 1 or 2 in both teams today.

[BillDFC]

@garlicandchips1 I am a Scot and you are right about Martin Chivers, I could never understand why he wasn't your regular striker,he was such an effective player, almost unbeatable in the air.

[C0NTR4B455]

1'30..So many times watching these clips of England games from 1970 on have I seen Moore mess up..He seems to think he can beat any player in any situation..Had he lost it? Watch the W Germany '72 game and you'll see it again and again..And don't mention Poland in '73...

[MCBhangramuffin]

@C0NTR4B455 to be fair, there was a reason behind Bobby Moore's mistakes against W Germany in 1972. Roy McFarland was selected at 5, but Clough withdrew him at very short notice, leaving no other obvious centre half in the squad. So Ramsey had to put Moore at 5 & Norman Hunter at 6. Moore hadn't played 5 since he was a kid. So it's a bit unfair to blame it on him, he was in an unfamilar position. He did go a bit after 1972, but was still a great player overall

[C0NTR4B455]

@MCBhangramuffin Fair point mate but look again at Moore trying to play his way out of defence in Katowice against Poland in '73.Maybe it was arrogance or just supreme confidence in his abilities but he was getting caught out and gifting chances..Still, of course, a great player in his day..I kinda think that the loss of B Charlton to Ramsey's England was crucial.The decline in England's fortunes post 1970 seemed to coincide with Charlton's international retirement (or was it just coincidence?)

[Johnzoil]

They hadn't yet invented balls you could see, but they had colour TV.

[seiya1337]

Who wears short shorts?!

[jimpurdie]

and our scottish water.your gettinf nil.zilch.

[Deus2Vexillum]

I watched england get fucked by the noble Germans last night.....it was fucking hilarious. A team of millionaires playing like shit.

[BritFez]

@Deus2Vexillum Yes. I laughed. Shit. Some people paid £6000 to go to South Africa. About half a day of Rooney's wages

[MrImatube]

And remember we never entered the world cup till 1950 so we mist many through not competiting

[BillDFC]

Hate to think how we would fare against the English now!

[converse91970]

Great watching this, and now I understand why my Arsenal supporting Dad always raved about Martin Chivers. He could have had four in this match!

[leenyburghers]

Martin Chivers ... now there's a face only a mother could love !

[Billo912]

What always let Scotland down was the defence seen here I'm surprised they never based their Defence on Jock Stein's Celtic but ALOT of "politic" influenced Scottish selection

They had some fine players in midfield & up front but were always weak at the back (Remember later Hansen & Miller running into each other against Russia ?) England often crucified them for defensive failings too

Sensible ref re the first Goal John Grieg stayed ON the pitch unlike today's inept rules

[redredreds100]

funny, funny, but oh so true

[chortlerguffaw]

Well once or twice-but losing gloriously and never making it to the knock out stages-last time euro 96-Shearer-Gascoigne 2-0

[chortlerguffaw]

At home watching it on the telly-another lovely taking apart of the old Scots with their pluck and passion and usual inconsistency.

Enjoy your pieces of Wembley turf and bits of goalposts-great reminders of the many lessons you were taught at the home of football and cold comfort for never qualifying for major tournaments-Cheers!

[amaffmaheid]

never qualifying????????

[BillDFC]

We have qualified for the major tournaments on many occassions,but have never had the good fortune to play all our games at home in a World cup without even having to qualify for it!

[chortlerguffaw]

True that we were hosts but a World Cup still takes some winning and plenty of hosts have failed to win including Italy and Germany.

We have reached the QF stage on at least 3 other occasions and another SF in 90.

Are you seriously suggesting that it would only ever have needed Scotland to host the World Cup for them to have won it? Even though you have NEVER progressed past the Group Stages in other World Cups. You have never had a chance and are unlikely to in the forseeable future.

[BillDFC]

In 1966,if we were hosts,I think we would have stood a chance as we had decent players then.

Funny you mention Italy and Germany who have won so many European and World cups,unlike England with a similar population.

Don't worry about it!

[chortlerguffaw]

Now as before it is impossible for Scotland to host a World Cup because of inadequate stadia.

Secondly,if you had stood a chance in 1966 why didn't you qualify and progress.

Thirdly,who's worried with qualification for SA assured,likely hosting again in 2018,Fabio in charge.

Post George Burley and a bleak time ahead it's clear who should be concerned.

[BillDFC]

I am not in the least concerned about Englands under achievement and failure compared to nations of a similar size.

[chortlerguffaw]

Whereas Denmark and Greece and Holland have won a Euro tounament apeice with relatively low population. random eh? Republic of Ireland have reached last eight with low population. Not the Scots though,why is that?

[BillDFC]

Very good...and England have never won a European tournament,despite their size.

Accept your failure and get on with it!

Get the chip off your shoulder...

[chortlerguffaw]

Projection on your part I think...cheers Bill,it's been an interesting to and fro. I do have warmth for Scotland and was dismayed as a young man when cheering them on in Argentina '78 that there wasn't a reciprocal feeling-ie. cheering on a home nation when your natural one wasn't present-a common thing for England in the 70s/80s-shame really.

As a New Zealand resident there is another team to support in SA next year.

ps. Population NZ -4 million

All the best.

[BillDFC]

Ah! the mighty All Blacks.....now rugby...there's a REA L game!

[ProcolHarum1967]

@BillDFC Yea if your a bender

[amaffmaheid]

where was the HOME support?

[19331937100]

@amaffmaheid scotland, surely in the same class as Finland, wales and Estonia..small nation..small minded people..ignored by most people..as an independant nation scotland would be the moldovia of north west europe...constantly looking for handouts from england, germany and france..

[Cybopath]

@19331937100

That's funny when Scotland put more into the UK than it gets out. Don't get why the English are so quick to tell us we're a bunch of spoungers if that where the case then surley they'd be glad to be rid of us. Well England clearly shares some values with other bigger nations, Loud, Arrogant and thinks it can run other countries better.

[segano1]

@19331937100, That's a shower of shite that, Scotland are only ignored because they don't have their own voice in the world yet, currently it's just a region of the UK,

with Independence Scotland will have full absolute power over it's own voice in the world,

Engirland is a dirty cheap chav'd up scummy crumpet chewing arrogant, ignorant set of cunts, Scotland is well documented to be well better off on thire own, not just for the Oil but future renewable energy potentials like Tidal power

[Deus2Vexillum]

@19331937100 ...the only country that takes handouts is England..........its called black gold and has kept your shithole affloat for 40 years....you cunts better pray we dont pull the plug onyou cunts.

[aarontwclunie]

@Deus2Vexillum you cant say that because scotland isnt a soverign state it has no effective maritime claims and for such purposes is part of the maritime claims of the United Kingdom.

[Deus2Vexillum]

@aarontwclunie ...under international law the largest part of the North Sea oil output falls within Scottish waters....linking directly to that of Norway. If we leave the Union England will at last see that its the oil thats kept the 'country' afloat' for the past 40 years.

[TheLegendfamily]

#7 4 England: Francis Lee, the "chunky raider"! (Maybe some of my fellow old-timers will get this reference.)

[jwgeezer]

England's first goal was a bit strange. The ball definitely didn't cross the line. In subsequent years, that would have been a penalty and a sending off but back then, it appears that it was not unusual for defenders to use their hands to keep the ball out knowing they wouldn't be sent off.

[BarnacleBillTheFirst]

Wonderful to see the Scots getting what they deserve - beaten again.

As always the Scots are massively inferior....

[oneovertheoddsthatis]

... feel better for that?

[GordonMorrice]

91,000 attendance? Holy shit! The pubs must have been hoachin' after the game.

[HitMeQuick]

That was classic Scotch defending for England's second goal. The back 4 looked like a bunch of pasty old men looking to see if they had bunyons. Look up ya daft cunt.

[hibeeOz]

Bring back the Home Nations.

Engerland too scared as 80,000 of the 90,000 crowds were Scots at Wembley every time.

Mon The Scots

[dixiedeanlivesalways]

its not the english were scared i too miss the home nations its not worth it now and believe me the jocks would get seriously fucked up if they came to wembley like that again and dont even start im tellin ye the jocks would get massacred and they know it

[Kelly14UK]

Reason England pulled out the HIs in the 80s was because after about 110 years, they finally managed to level the scores. As a wee boy in the 70s, my Dad told me we'd beat England more times than they'd beaten us.

We always raise our game against you guys. Don't kid yourself.

[dixiedeanlivesalways]

you can wee boy yourself to death my jock friend was actualy talkng about the risk of hoolaganism ,,the jocks were usualy pissed out of their kilts were a threat of a counter english hool attack wasnt worth thinking about thats what i meant and iwasnt kiding myself either ,but i do miss the game

[Kelly14UK]

Sorry, but that was an embarrassing mess. Could you get your parents to sort your spelling out?

[flygweilo]

By the time the Home Nations finished in 1984, England had a done a good deal more than level the scores. England and Scotland have continued to play each other after that, with England winning most of the games. So, don't kid yourself - I don't think the end of the Home Nations tourney has favoured England so much as it has spared Scotland.

But I do miss the days when we - in these Isles - produced world class players both sides of the border in numbers.

[jambamz]

@flygweilo but thats the point for a small nation playing a much bigger nation I think we do more than alright

[flygweilo]

@jambamz Scotland did very well against England, especially given the respective populations of the two countries. But the end of the Home Nations had nothing to do with England wanting to get out whilst the scores were level, and a lot to do with the fact that tournament had become irrelevant and inconvenient once the standard of football in the Home nations dropped as far it has.

Continuing it would likely have favoured England, given the latter run of results, but it's impossible to be sure.

[jambamz]

@flygweilo you get me wrong I agree with you, up till the point where you say it would have likely favoured england it continuing

[flygweilo]

@jambamz LOL ... well, I think we are both supportive of our respective countries, of course. At the time the Home Nations tournament was abandoned, the recent run of results did augur well for England in the immediate future thereafter.

I am most definitely not saying that England's respectable run would have gone on forever - nothing lasts forever. But the subsequent 'Europeanisation' of England's and Scotland's domestic leagues has changed everything.

[flygweilo]

@jambamz I think Scotland does very well, too. But the point I was trying to address was the question of why Scotland v England was withdrawn as a regular fixture. For all the tradition and history involved, the whole football calendar was becoming too crowded with League, League Cup, (S)FA Cup, European club and international fixtures for the Euro Championships and the World Cup and to accommodate a tournament that had become essentially meaningless.

The SFA and the FA were both relieved.

[redredreds100]

There were two reasons the home internationals ended, one was a dwindling interest, and the main reason was the game where scottish fans invaded the pitch, bringing down the goal posts, that was the beginning of the end

[fireandrain1]

Your talking pish ! Sure there was little interest in the home nations but the main reason was,and still is,there's actually no room in the calender for the games.

As for Scots fans celebrations being to blame,frankly,that's laughable.

If that were the case there wouldn't be an international competition played anywhere on the planet due to havoc England fans brought with them.

[redredreds100]

I am not talking "pish" the only game making money was england/scotland, and in a celebration win at wembly, scots fans invaded the pitch, swung on crossbars and broke them, I'm not condemning those fans, or even talking bad about them, is was a wild celebration that's all, no trouble intended, on their part,. so get over yourself, I'm talking fact, while you just talk

[redredreds100]

perhaps I should have made it clear, that the scots invaded the pitch after the game was over, and it was to celebrate a victory, no trouble was intended, the guys swung from the crossbar, did not mean to break them

[Billo912]

No quite true...ask the Local Residents at Wembley Park....windows were smashed....bottles & Rubbish thrown into Local Gardens....!

Cars got smashed up too...locals used to move their cars out before the Saturday of the annual game !

The Scottish Fans tore up sections of the turf...both in 1967 and 1977...in 1979 Tube Drivers went on Strike forcing the "Tartan Army" to WALK there & back...

[RobinCarmody]

The interesting thing about it, looking back today, is how little the predominately right-wing (and, certainly by the late 1970s, already Murdochised) England fans cared about the Scots, rarely even bothering to attend the match at Wembley and treating it with bored disdain.

With the general anti-Scottish feeling that has become part of the "Engerland" mentality in recent years - and which really wasn't there pre-1997 - there might be more edge *on both sides* if the fixture was revived now.

[lalinejad]

"With the general anti-Scottish feeling that has become part of the "Engerland" mentality in recent years"

Not sure what you mean by anti-Scottish feeling. Most of England couldn't care less about Scotland one way or another.

Though in recent years some fans take offence at Scotland's hostile attitude towards England's football team, then (maybe rightfully) reciprocate.

Btw, if "Engerlund" fans are predominantly "Right-wing" does that mean the Old-Firm fans are too? Didn't think so!

[RobinCarmody]

It depends. Rangers fans are, on the whole, more to the political right than Celtic fans, though I don't want to go any further into *that* argument.

But I do think that a lot of the anti-Scottishness that *does* exist in England is actually codified envy. After all, the English people who seem to be most anti-Scottish are also those who are most concerned about clear cultural identity, and *that* is something the Scots have much more of ...

[lalinejad]

Well, I always thought Glasgow was a predominantly Socialist city, beings it's a traditional Labour voting area! I don't know where the "right-wing" comes from in that! If anything the Old Firm prove that you don't have to be right-wing to be a thug.

I personally have never seen any evidence of "anti-Scottishness" in England. After all you won't get beaten for wearing a Scotland football shirt south of the border, like you may for wearing an England shirt in Scotland.

[redredreds100]

so true, this "anti scottish" thing is so overblown, maybe the the other way it is, being english with a scottish wife, going to scotland, there is real anti engllish feeling, but as far as i'm concerned, i couldn't care less, and growing up in London, as you say there was no anti scottish "thing"

[lalinejad]

Yeah, I've never been one to judge people by nationality, but even if I did I still wouldn't care about the Scots. I think that view is shared by most where we come from.

As for the "Anti-English" thing in Scotland, I assume it's mostly down to superiority/inferiority complex.

[mts1977]

Wouldn't happen these days mate. Wembley would not be as welcoming now. Aren't they bringing back some home fixtures? Everyone's in it but England. The "Celtic Cup"?

[dezzyhunt]

i was there that match i was only 9 and fucking hell it was unbelievable

[goldyn12345]

england are so overated,they've won fuck all!!! they're international record is a joke!!

[jimbomak]

Check his flag (duster) that's why. Not going to be showing anything recent either cos Engerland are just as shite as us.

[ronnoten]

how come there are hardly any scottish wins on here? someone has taken them off.

[martinh103]

i was at school in the 70's. lived near the spurs ground. i saw chivers play at spurs all his career. gotta say, pound for pound, hes the best striker we ever had. wasnt fast at the ball, but he could pack a shot like it came out of a cannon

[TheLegendfamily]

I used to go 2 a lot of matches @ WHL back in those days as well. U r right that Chivers had a shot like a thunderbolt & he always seemed to know where the goal was as well.

[fatpigiam]

The first goal of the match should have not been allowed. Instead, a penalty should have been given to England. I presume the referee thinks penalties are a boring waste of time. It was incorrect to allow a goal. The ball was not over the line. 1966 revisited - But a poor decision.

[RICHTAYL]

Don't forget, at Spurs Chivers was playing with a certain Alan Gilzean.

[ECFC24]

who really cares? this was ages ago.

Look where scotland are now haha

[jimcoats]

Terrible defending by the Scots as someone once said!

Hardly a team of all the talents from Scotland (where were Denis Law, Colin Stein, Willie Johnston or Bobby Lennox up front?).

Good big centre, that Chivers, tho'

[TonyBananas101]

That's an interesting interpretation of the rules for England's 1st goal where the ball clearly doesn't cross the line. I suppose morally perhaps it was correct but I've never seen anything like that before

[kenziebern]

This is my uncle that scored scotlands goal

hugh curran played with millwall ,norwich , wolves then oxford , 5 caps for scotland and put one by gordon banks .

[acmason]

Eat your heart out Delap, Chivers had a long throw AND could score goals like this

[Nickthetoast]

Why the hell are they playing with a red ball? And speaking of balls, check out Jimmy Johnston's shorts at 0.16- so flattering!

[xSoccerxCorex]

it's brown, that's what the old footballs looked like

[hesmissedit]

Was it fuck, apart from the world cup final in 66 they were all white until the 1970 world cup introduced the now iconic black and white spotted ball. The orange ball was often used in this period if there was a chance of snow on the pitch but as the home internationals were played in May I can´t understand this although I do remember the game. Chivers was a hell of a centre forward, big and quick and what a finisher.

[WELLBRAN]

complete with lace!

[riciard55]

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