Top Economic Adviser: 'Of Course' Recession Isn't Over

[gemini067]

lonely; Probably the first and last time you were in a bathtub.

[theygunaHATEME]

did you now that medicare spends20% more for the same treatment quality, than private insurence. and denys 5 times more claims than any private insurance the health care bill will raise premiums and cost hospitals more when there the ones giving away FREE HEALTH CARE YOU FUCKING MORON. KILL YOUR SELF AND RAISE THE AVERAGE INTELLIGENCE OF THE WHOLE WORLD

[goodinohio]

Can't you just hear "stifle Edith"!

[Hawkeye816]

face it libs. sarah palin is a larger mental giant than the entire nobama administration up to and including hussein (insane?) himself. you can talk yourselves blue in the face (people of color?) over healthcare, cap and trade, union cardcheck and afghanistan. NO ONE IS LISTENING ANYMORE.

[LawyerScumGhost]

The Federal Reserve owns Obama just like it owned Bush...all of you who incessantly argue about conservative vs. liberal are playing right into their hands. BOTH parties are servants to the Fed master. It doesn't matter which party is in power, we will get screwed either way. AUDIT THE FED.

[jeffsnyder73]

I think this chick swallowed Chris Farley....

[drmark1995]

Kinda like the "turducken" of Rush ate O'Reilly ate Beck--but that wouldn't be sophisticated to criticize somene's political perspectives based on their appearance.

[maximusdecimus888]

Wow, Obama really likes to surround himself with dumbasses. I guess it comes with the gig of being a filthy liberal.

[drmark1995]

WAIT, don't talk about Rush that way. Oh I'M sorry, I got caugh up in your 6th grade level ad hominem critique. I meant Beck.

[DaInfoMan11]

Obama's Chief Economic Adviser, Larry Summers, Just said the exact opposite yesterday in an interview on ABC.

I love how there are always so many contradictions inside out defunct government. They can't even get their own PROPAGANDA right because there are new talking points every day!

[mikie8865]

AUDIT THE FED!!!!!

[gemini067]

1911; Everyone knows, raising taxes in a recession is wrong, the democrats are waiting for the Bush tax cuts, which EVERYONE who pays taxes recieved, expire in 2010, taxes rise, the democrats can say they did not raise taxes, many are up for re-election in 2010. The wealth was never "distributed", it was earned, get off your fat ass and work, there is always work for people who are real workers. The only people who want a "redistribution of wealth" are bottom feeders like yourself.

[shalcall]

@gemini067 saying everyone received the Bush tax cuts is like going to a birthday party with 30 people and giving 28 people a crumb of cake and splitting the rest of the cake between 2 people and then saying, "hey, everybody got a piece"

[gemini067]

shallow; What part of "EVERYONE WHO PAYS TAXES", do you not understand, better yet, can you walk and chew gum at the same time? You sound like an asshole liberal, which like the other Obama buddies do not pay taxes.

[shalcall]

What part of IT WASN'T DISTRIBUTED PROPORTIONALLY TO EVERYONE WHO PAID TAXES do you not understand?

[gemini067]

shallow; If you are such a liberal ass, why haven't you said anything about a FLAT TAX, are you pro or con? Tax rates are NOT equal, I am supposing you are a democrat, therefore you, like most in Obama,s administration, do not pay taxes.

[shalcall]

If you mean a flat tax rate across the board, I'm totally against it. $1 to a man that makes minimum wage is worth much much more than that same $1 is worth to a millionaire.

A single mother working 40 hours per week at minimum wage is already below the poverty line in the U.S. Now you want to increase her taxes, while decreasing the taxes on the rich?

Doesn't make too much sense to me.

[gemini067]

shallow; A single mother working, very rare, 40 hrs a week at minimum wage, below poverty level, would pay NO taxes, and, depending on the number of deductions, would, in fact, recieve a tax rebate, though not having paid a withholding tax, but you are penalizing a person because they are rich, through family, hard work, or just luck, if so, why not a tax on people with brown eyes, or blonde hair, its called DISCRIMINATION. I don't think very much does make sense to you, sorry.

[shalcall]

Wait, single mothers don't work? It's very rare? You obviously have lead a privileged life. My mother raised 2 kids on her own and worked far more than 40 hours per week.

Secondly, you idiots keep forgetting FICA. She would get a rebate for any federal taxes but she still has to pay social security and medicare. SHE PAYS TAXES. What many conservatives just don't get is that no one who works gets away without paying some taxes.

[gemini067]

shallow; Do you know anything about social security, or medicare, and if you really want to learn check EIC, earned income credit, it is a tax "rebate" for taxes NOT paid, your mother would recieve a much larger amount than was withheld, but why should she not pay taxes, who pays the armed forces, medicaid, the government, the highways, police, etc,etc.. You don't seem to be too bright.

[shalcall]

Holy shit, you don't know wtf you're talking about. STOP WATCHING FOX NEWS AND GO LEARN SOMETHING TRUE.

The maximum amount you can be refunded from EIC will never come close to what you pay in Social Security and Medicare. If you have no kids, the maximum you can get is $457 and that's if you make $13,440 or less. On $13,440 you pay $1,028.16 in social security and Medicare taxes.

If you make $13,441 and you have no kids, you don't qualify for EIC.

[gemini067]

Shallow Social security and FICA are not taxes, also you stated your mother had two children, which gives her a larger EIC return, and also worked more than 40 hrs per week, more return. Many people, myself included, worked more than 40 hrs, whenever possible. Do you support yourself, or some ones deduction.

[shalcall]

gemini067, you don't have to believe me. Go to the Social Security website. Look up EIC and look at the maximum you can receive and maximum eligibility. FICA (which includes social security and medicare) will always exceed EIC refunds.

As it is, a single person who works 40 hours/wk at minimum wage is NOT eligible for EIC because you make too much.

You don't know what you're talking about. I do, because for years I worked in payroll.

[okefixico]

Ah. to hell with both bush and obama. Both espouse the bullcrap philosophy that government is not a henderence.

[maximusdecimus888]

The real numbers on unemployment are 18-20%. They don't keep records of people that stop drawing.

[bundlesjr]

They give Bush 8 years before his report card came in the mail. He started with a clean slate and a neutral deficit.

Obama? 8 months before people start jumping to conclusions. Starting with war, a deficit, a recession, and they're mad because he can't save the world as he's clearly trying to do.

[VictoryCough]

Bush came into the office with a recession-he prolonged and postponed the real pain just as Obama is doing now.

Recession is the markets way of correcting itself from bad government policy. Its necessary. We should embrace it.

So obama wants to end the more by spreading it? Thats like when they said they had to burn villages in vietnam to save them! Obama can't save the world to begin with! This is the logic people use to reason that america can police the world.

[shalcall]

Go back to Austria. Let real economists deal with this.

[VictoryCough]

Yeah cause "real" economist spouting their keynesian nonsense have done such a great job. Recession ever few years, threats of depressions every 20 years, the dollars purchasing power declining 95% to eight cents, rollercoaster unemployment. Thats what I call a "solid economic foundation"!

[shalcall]

The stability of the economy since the great depression (over 70 years) has been multiple times better using Keynesian and Monetary theory, than it was before the great depression when only the classical view was used.

[VictoryCough]

Oh, so when was our greatest period of growth? Is it a coincidence that the contractions coincide with inflationary policies? How can you say this is stability with a straight face? Look at the value of the dollar since 1913! We've gone from producing the highest quality exports to consuming everything Asia produces and exporting very little! The problem isn't the recession, its the boom period when all the credit and money is flowing. Money/credit doesn't equal wealth.

[jjrglobal]

How can you say that we have had stability? With all the technological advances since the 1930's life should be getting easier not harder.

Instead it now takes both parents working full time, more hours a week to make it. Yet we still are falling behind in savings rate.

You ever heard of the Great Depression of 1920? Why?IT was far worse than the crash of 1929 by every measure.

[shalcall]

Holy shit, you're blaming lower wage rates on instability? Econ 101, increased supply leads to lower prices. In the late 60's and early 70's we had a feminist movement in this country. Since then, ever increasing amounts of women have entered the work force. At the same time because of technological advances, one worker is able to accomplish more than ever before.

So you've almost doubled the supply of labor, wtf do you think should have happened to the wage rate?

[jjrglobal]

I didnt say anything about lower wages, but it is not a coincidence that the purchasing power of every household in America just happened to coincide with women leaving the home to work. I think your putting too much emphasis on the feminist movement and not enough on the necessity for both parents to work due to inflation

[shalcall]

You said, "it now takes both parents working full time, more hours a week to make it." That implies you're talking about wages.

The wage rate has decreased with respect to inflation. If you take inflation into account, the wage rate has gone down. So the fact that it take 2 earners to provide for a family has more to do with decreased wages than it has to do with decreased purchasing power.

[bundlesjr]

Bush came into office with a recession?

Bush didn't prolong the pain, he CAUSED it. This man gave tax cuts to the richest fat cats in corporate America for 8 years. And the Iraq War? This war will end up paying every dime for Obama's healthcare bill by the time every last soldier has left Iraq. 700 billion already!!! Thats not even counting the lives lost...

Recession may be good for the market, but its far from an ideal solution. This nation needs its integrity checked bigtime.

[jjrglobal]

Bushs tax cuts were the ONLY good thing he did. How did tax cuts make people take on mortgages they couldn't afford? How did tax cuts make people stop paying their mortgage. Tax cuts create jobs, good jobs, private sector jobs. He just should have cut spending too. At least he got half of it right, Obama gets everything wrong

[shalcall]

Yes, because the only good jobs are private sector jobs. I'll let all the veterans like myself know that we are just bottom feeders.

[MrFreedomdemocracy]

Obama deserves B+ January 2009: GITMO 750,000 job losses/mo Dow Jones= 7000 (from 14,000) 401k sinking Car industry sinking foreclosures unemployment curve projected to be 20-25% in 9 months AIG and the banks almost collapsed (1/3 of the worldwide population without a job). The country in 2 wars (Iraq for profit). A 4 stage economic cancer with methastasis and the GOP thinking about the deficit in 2025 while you need to invest to save the patient with surgery and chemo.

[roachmobile]

Ah, but the "fundamentals of the economy are still strong" according to the GOP in Dec 2008. I guess they wanted private insurance or charity to take care of the cancer.

[jjrglobal]

@1911arthur

Unless you get a gubment check, then how in the hell does trickle up work?

The one thing I know for sure is that I have a better chance of getting a raise or a bonus if my employer has more money in his pocket than I do when he has less money in his pocket. Since I don't get a gubment check and dont know of anyone that does, then government taxation can only hurt my situation. Dont forget, rich folks have the ability to pass their tax losses to the other classes by raising prices.

[shalcall]

Guess what jjrglobal, your boss pays taxes on his profits. You are a business expense, one that he has an incentive to keep low. So the only time your boss actually has an incentive to give you a raise is when your productivity is higher than someone else he could higher for your position.

[jjrglobal]

I have a saying thats always held true in my life ." A good hand is never unemployed."

Nobody fires or lays off people that make more money for the company than what they cost the company. Why would they?

Maybe you need to go back to school or learn a trade where you are a productive member of society. Just a suggestion

[gbhobson]

While I can understand what you're trying to get at, I have to say that it doesn't always hold true. When a company is forced past the limits, sometimes even good workers have to be laid off. This is, of course, after culling out the riff-raff, getting employees to take voluntary pay cuts, exhausting all means to collect on contracts that have been let out, calling in all balances due, etc. Taxing and regulating companies to death is indeed possible, and it's happening now, sorry to say.

[jjrglobal]

Good point. Like I said it hasn't ever happened in my lifetime, that doesn't mean that it can't or for that matter isn't in some areas already. I just know how hard it is to find anyone worth a damn anymore. The best employees get laid off when they close the doors.

I just cant understand how anyone can disagree with trickle down economics, I know trickle up doesnt work and I dont get a check from the gov. so taxing my employer doesn't help me at all or anyone that I know.

[shalcall]

You don't understand wtf you're talking about. You don't understand that the U.S. is a consumer driven economy, and you don't understand that the middle class have a higher propensity to consume than a rich person.

If you give a middle class person $1, that entire $1 goes back into the economy. If you give a rich person $1, maybe 50 cents gets back into the economy and the other 50 goes into savings. If you want to stimulate an economy, it's not done by giving money to the rich.

[jjrglobal]

@shalcall

It's clear you have zero understanding about wealth creation and its dependence on capital formation. People with money don't let it sit stagnate in a bank somewhere, they invest it. They invest in companies, and thats how real wealth is created, not by consuming. Think how ridiculous it even sounds to say we have a consumer economy, I'm not arguing that we dont, but I am arguing that a consumer economy is not sustainable and will crash. We must produce more than we consume 4 wealth

[shalcall]

jjrglobal, it's you that have no understanding of where the wealthy place their money. Investment (as an economic term) is not putting money into the stock market. When you put money into stock you are saving, not investing. You are purchasing part ownership in a company and that company doesn't see one red cent from your purchase of stock. If the wealthy actually put it in the bank it would do far more.

The wealthy save their money. It's the middle class that creates wealth.

[jjrglobal]

So you believe that the middle class creates wealth by consumption, is this right?

[shalcall]

jjrglobal, you are showing your complete ignorance when it comes to maximizing profits.

"Nobody fires or lays off people that make more money for the company than what they cost the company?"

Tell that to any employee that has ever been replaced with a computer or a robot. Tell that to someone who has 15 years experience in a job that's layed off, even though they make the company money, but some kid out of college is only half the price.

For the love of God, learn some microeconomics

[jjrglobal]

If you are that easily replaced then you weren't making any money for the company. If some kid out of college can step in and take my place with no experience and make just as much for the company that I can for half of my salary, then I was way overpaid and deserve to be fired. You have to make yourself valuable, that requires work ethic and intelligence

[shalcall]

It's called marginal product of labor. If I have kid right out of college that produces only 2/3 of what you produce, but he costs me 1/2 of what you cost me, guess what, you're going to find yourself on the unemployment line, even though you produce more than that college kid and you make more money for the company.

The fact is, when it comes to maximizing profits, I have to produce at the margins. Obviously, in real life loyalty sometimes gets in the way of profits, but not often.

[jjrglobal]

How do you think this changes the fact that either the older worker is over paid or not producing as much as he should given the older workers double salary?

[jjrglobal]

I guess I have a real world bias when it comes to your examples. In the REAL world your examples don't happen, or at least they haven't ever happened in my 17 years of business. These examples may make good classroom discussion but they just don't have any real world application

[shalcall]

My examples are based on real world occurrences. How do you think McDonalds became what it is today? When it started, they had a chefs that made burgers, fries, etc. etc.

To make more money, they hired inexperienced workers that they could pay minimum wage, and showed one how to flip a burger, another how to put it on a bun, and another how to put in a box. 3 workers to do the work of 1 chef, and they cost less, and increase profits.

Same thing happened in the auto industry.

[PatricksTime]

bush...i mean obama sucks!

[CheObama]

Dr. of what? Over eaters anonymous?

[cloud1232006]

The administration doesn't give a fuck about you

[quizerry]

As long as this administration keeps spending taxpayer dollars we will remain in a recession. The economy can't come back with big government. They don't care they just want power. Yesterday they passed a omnibus budget bill for 1.1 trillion dollars and 5000 earmarks. I swear they are trying to destroy America.

[jjrglobal]

@quizerry

You're right they are, its called Cloward and Pivens startegy. Check it out

[quizerry]

Yes it is all part of Obama's Marxist utopia

[shalcall]

And that didn't go on during the Bush administration? So either both parties are trying to destroy America or you're a partisan hack.

[Hudd1950]

This administration is throwing parties, dressing Michelle, hiring government employees, raising taxes and working to raise them more--they're doing a lot. /S/

[gdernie]

We know it's bad. Tired of hearing is bad....we know that.... the people want to know what exactly is the administration doing.... EXACTLY.