READ ON OR DIE TONIGHT AT10:35 P.M.9 years ago a person named Jerry got dared to sleep in a house that was believed haunted.The next day his friends waited for him out side the house. They had to go inside and search for him.They went through every room except the attic. He wasn't supposed to sleep there.He was Supposed to sleep in the living room. They went into the attic. They saw Jerry's corpse and they just left because they were scared. Later Jerry Ghost Killed ThemPaste This To11 Vi
"Check out my YouTube channel/playlists and websites for present-truth materials, Three Angels' Messages and God's last-mercy warning to His people in these last days.
Papacy = Antichrist / Little Horn / Beast from the Sea
Roman Catholicism = Whore of Babylon
Investigative Judgement has commenced in 1844 (1st Angel's Message)
Ellen G. White, 1827-1915 = End-time Prophet Sent of God
7th-day Sabbath = Seal of God
Sunday Worship to be Enforced as Mark of the Beast"
Critics Christ's church have an axe to grind, I suppose.
in an ever changing world and one with increasing wickedness and godlessness, one would think that a second witness of the divinity of Christ would be welcomed with open arms. Mark my words... if a man had to face life or death because an atheist were to say that he only had faith in a Jewish God, and with a gun to his head, would he remember about this book? Would he plead for his life saying that another BOOK acts as evidence?
"This is what the Old Testament helps us see and what the Restoration helps us see," Brother Osguthorpe said. "Other people and other churches wouldn't have that insight, because they don't have prophets today."
The Osguthorpes showed the class a picture of the three-level waterfall feature on the LDS Conference Center in Salt Lake City, where prophets and apostles speak. The teachers compared it to the canals that brought water into ancient Jerusalem and used both to teach the concept that prophets ancient and modern have brought the "living water" of the word of God to His children.
Four years ago, the last time the Old Testament was taught in gospel doctrine class, Brother Osguthorpe and his wife, Lola, had the calling to teach it to an older-youth class of 14- and 15-year-olds. One of the lessons was on the imagery of living water as a comparison to the word of God.
A theme in the Old Testament to which Latter-day Saints can relate is prophecy, Brother Osguthorpe noted. "The Old Testament is full of prophets, and we have a living prophet today."
Should I also pray about Mein Kampf? The TV Guide? The repair manual for my car?
You're asking me to bet my eternal soul on my feelings? Doesn't the Bible say something about the heart being deceitful above all things? Take that and all of the other internal problems and inconsistancies with Mormonism and you have a false religion.
if you feel your eternal salvations resides ini the Mein Kampf, the TV Guide, or the repair manual for your car then yes.
feelings are EXACTLY the tools we are given guide, and direct us. you are given a conscience, the Bible clearly teaches that it is the spirit that will teach us all things.
we are told promised that if we will do His will we will know whether it be of God, or of man. how do you know that if it isn't through a spirit to spirit communication that cannot be misunderstood?
You know what I mean. But again, doesn't the Bible clearly state that the heart above all things is deceitful? When you trust your feelings, compounded by the utter lack of evidence for anything peculiar to Mormonism, however, you risk your eternal soul to damnation.
You're trying to tell me that when I read Mormon works, they're encoded, but I see no evidence of that at all. If they don't mean what they say, why bother printing them at all?
so tell me why you have a conscience? I believe this is a gift from otherwise referred to as the 'light of Christ'.
you make it sound like the 'Christmas Story', and the kid with encoder ring lol. and here you call me the master manipulator.
and yes I do know what you mean which is you don't seriously believe in personal revelation. the ability to pray, get direct answers for prayers, and actually be guided by a loving Heavenly Father.
Well, not everyone has a conscience, though I don't know the reason.
"you make it sound like the 'Christmas Story', and the kid with encoder ring lol. and here you call me the master manipulator."
That's exactly what you said when you told me I didn't understand the Mormon literature that I have. You tell me that it says one thing, but really means something else.
I never said I didn't believe in personal revelation; I said the church was false because of its false doctrines.
Really? How many psychologists interviewed and studied Ted Bundy? And tell me how a man could, apparently without abuse or neglect, become a monster that raped, tortured, killed, and sodomized his victims even after death.
Read a few books about the man and tell me again that everyone has a conscience.
You make assumptions, but when Bundy killed, he did so without remorse and was never bothered by what he'd done. In fact, his last act of free will was to twist James Dobson into believing that pornography was the starting point of his crimes and you tell me that not everyone has a conscience?
this coming from somebody who cannot prove their own faith, and yet expects other people to.
there is a difference between a conscience that has been dulled, and not having one at all.
you don't get into a scenario where you are killing people without remorse over night. there is very obviously other decisions, thoughts, and actions that come into play here.
just because somebody has a conscience does not mean they follow its guiding light. I know I don't always follow mine.
And why would I need to prove something you and I both accept as fact? By demanding such, you're throwing a red herring into the mix. There's proof for Biblical events and people, and none for anything contained in the BOM. Combine that with all of the problems and contradictions inherent to Mormonism and you have a false religion, claiming Christ as its own.
we bring the same examples / witnesses to bear the Savior did, and yet you aren't willing to believe them. all the works the Savior said would accompany his people exist in this church as Christ stated in the Bible.
we have 12 witnesses who handled the book personally, and testified to the fact. not one of those men denied this to their last breath even though some fell away from the church.
there are other evidences, many, but you find ways to dismiss those as well of course.
Your 12 witnesses? Some claimed to have seen some plates, nothing more, but didn't David Whitmer write a scathing book about how the church had fallen into error before 1838?
And why would they have left the church, all excommunicated, I believe, if they knew the church to be correct? And then you want me to take their word for JS having translated the plates correctly when he's also known to have translated forgeries?
David Whitmer never denied having seen the plates, some of those witnesses were shown the plates by the Angel Mormoni. you claim to have read the book multiple times you should be well versed with the testimonies of the wintesses contained in the beginning of the book.
some of them returned to the church later, and were restored to full membership, but none every denied their witnesses of the books. how odd leave the church, & yet never deny the book.
Since you put so much stock in those witnesses, let's see what JS said about them, shall we?
"Such characters as McLellin, John Whitmer, David Whitmer, Oliver Cowdery, and Martin Harris are too mean to mention; and we had liked to have forgotten them." (HOTC Vol 3, p 232)
"This poor man who professes to be much of a prophet, has no other dumb ass to ride but David Whitmer..." (HOTC Vol 3, p 228)
Even your false prophet didn't put as much stock in them as the church does now.
explain to me, exactly, what any of that has to do with seeing something miraculous, and never denying it to their dying day?
those witnesses would easily stand up in any court of law; actually the Book of Mormon was put on trial in a court, and they were not able to prove it was false.
here you stand thinking you can accomplish something they could not do through the legal system.
Did you read my last post? The modern church obviously thinks far more of those "witnesses" than did JS:
"But no sooner were they (Martin Harris and others) excluded from the fellowship of the church and gave loose, to all kinds of abominations, swearing, lying, cheating, swindling, drinking, with every species of debauchery..." (Elders' Journal, edited by Joseph Smith, Aug 1838, p 59)
And you'd like me to take the word of men who lie, cheat, and steal?
obviously your tactic is going to be to discredit these men. I've learned, long ago, an anti like you will take one statement, loose the context, and you'll take 1 line to twist & turn as you like.
also - there were a total of 12 men you are only mentioning a few.
2-3 witnesses easily stand up in a court of law, and we are talking 12 total.
admit it this argument is as weak as your inability to prove the divinity of Christ.
Why do I need to prove the divinity of Christ? Isn't that something we both agree upon? Your own scriptures say exactly that, as do mine. That's the same as asking me if I believe the sky to be blue or the grass green, and is presented as a stumbling block that hasn't yet worked.
why do you need to prove it? proving the sky is blue, or the grass is green is simple; walk outside and look.
you can't prove Chris is the son of God without looking through spiritual eyes.
FYI - it is a stumbling block - to all those who may read this, and realize how hypocritical you are. and maybe, just maybe, instead of believing your trash at face value they'll investigate for themselves.
I've heard about this "trial," but know nothing about it. That said, there's nothing alone to prove it false, but its lack of evidence, combined with false prophesies, changes in history and doctrine, and its inherent contradictions undermine every claim your church makes.
I have; tell me where in the BOM I can find Jesus teaching of God being married, of us all being spiritual siblings, that he's an exalted being and that we, too, can become gods, anything about the pre-mortal existance, that God has a physical body, that there are three levels of Heaven, that polygamy would be permitted even while it was publicly denounced, that he, God, and the Holy Spirit are separate and distinct, or that he atoned for our sins in the Garden.
I know, I know, I read your texts on a regular basis and you keep telling me that they don't say what they say. Where does one get those decoder rings at?
When I have time. You tell me that the books don't say what they mean and don't mean what they say. Why does God talk in riddles and nonsense? Since I think we'll agree that God wants us all to avoid the pain of an eternity in Hell, why all the veiled doctrine, the Biblical-sounding double speak?
That would make it harder for people to follow him, not easier.
let's go back to the 1st Century, and Christ has ascended and charged the apostles with the mission of:
1. feeding the flock with spiritual food.
2. preaching the gospel to the PAGAN world.
A world that couldn't accept the gospel of JESUS CHRIST in its purest form, so by the 4th century and after the martyrdom of the apostles, they accepted a watered down version.
So it only makes sense that with the restoration of the gospel in its purest form, it would seem a different interpretation of the scriptures, but not contradictory.
Watered down? Now that's an interesting charge in light of the fact that your own church has given up on some of its core doctrines, such as blacks never being permitted the priesthood in this life and the essential-for-exaltation policy of polygamy.
blacks should have always been allowed the priesthood, however it happened and Brigham young was a product of his day, but Joseph Smith never was racist, and in his presidential run, tho cut short cause he was murdered in cold blood. But in his campaign he was going to abolish slavery! Also noteworthy that Joseph Smith personally ordained Elijah Abel, a man of african roots.
I don't understand why this is so quickly shut out as fiction? If you believe in Jesus Christ, what do you have against Him showing Himself to other people. Shouldn't it just make you happy that more people can witness to His reality? That more people, in more places saw in Him in the flesh--shouldn't that build your faith in Him since you won't get to see Him until He comes again? I know that God loves ALL His children, and wants all to believe in Him. The Book of Mormon is proof of that!
Well, first, there's not one single shred of evidence for Lamanites, Nephites, or pre-Columbian Christianity/Judaism. Nothing.
Second, we have the false prophesies of Joseph Smith; not one has come true. Nope, not one.
And look at 3 Nephi 20:23-25. Notice how the Mormon Jesus says he's going to quote Moses (Deut 18:15) but uses almost the same exact words that Peter used to paraphrase (Acts 3:22-23). How could a god make such a mistake?
How can I be objective when you have this kind of stupidity considered scripture?
Am I objective? When I first started to research Mormonism some 13 years ago, yes, I was. I didn't know anything about it then, but the more I learned, the less credibility it had.
This bit of comedy is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the major problems of Mormonism. I can back up everything I say, but at the end of the day, all you have is fuzzy feelings.
sorry real live miracles are far from 'fuzzy feelings'.
while the proof I bring to the table doesn't mean much to me you can rest assured that your arguments & statements probably mean even less to me.
I'm willing to believe the indisputable evidences from beyond the veil over the evidences that man can bring to the table. I'll break that down I will believe the creator over man, His creation.
no - I didn't dodge the question, and you did not respond to my question of a similar nature... oh yea, when you ask me that I'm playing 'childish games' when I ask you the same question you simply avoid the question...
convenient isn't it?
my answer was simple, and I didn't avoid your question, I believe the creator rather then the creation. you are the creation with limited knowledge / understanding why wouldn't I believe a being who knows all over you?
You want me to prove something that we both believe, thus trying to sidetrack the conversation and distract me from proving the point. If you won't answer the question, who appears weak?
well - in my opinion I believe your statement is weak.
you ask my to prove issues of faith, and yet you, yourself, or unable & unwilling to prove similar issues of faith. your opinions are, simply put, hypocritical.
I see no side track to the conversation. I see it as your own inability to prove your own faith.
You're throwing that red herring out there as a stumbling block, turning a non-issue into an issue of artificial importance and thus manufacturing a reason to not answer a specific point. Mormons are very good at the word games and semantics, but it only works on those who don't understand Mormonism.
You made a point and again, the burden of proof is yours.
wouldn't it just be more simple for you to admit that you can't?
what you call a 'non issue' is a very important issue to me. your approach to everything here is hypocritical, and you know that.
yet you call this word games and systematics. you can justify it anyway you want to, but the truth is still the truth.
Christ worked many miracles that people saw, and yet they still didn't believe. faith / religion has always been a matter of the heart, and you turn it into a systematics game.
Can't what? You're asking me to "prove" something that we both agree on, so the point is moot. Why would you want me to prove that my car is blue when we're both standing next to it and can see plainly that it's blue?
"Your mormon Jesus is not the same as the real biblical one. "
My reply:
What you really mean is...."YOUR" jesus is not the same jesus of the bible as it is part of a three-headed blob who has to be described by the analogy of either a triangle, water in its three phases or an egg...lol..show me where in the bible Christ used the same analogies please...ROFL!!!
There is much viable evidence that points to the book of Mormon as plausible. please don't make this mistake.
And that's the entire point you strive for: plausibility, even if it's only 1%, you have to take that as a victory because you have no evidence that anything in the BOM ever happened.
And thanks, to you; I use your name as my password. No one would ever guess it!
Am I? Let's get into specifics, shall we? Where would you like to start? Inconsistancies in LDS scripture? The major problems with the Furst Vision? Polygamy? Book of Abraham? The problems with the JST?
Lay the topic on the table and I'll show you that you've been lied to about it. The church has changed, amended, rewritten, and hidden nearly every part of its own history, doctrine, and purpose; you've only gotten the whitewashed version.
the question is provide me indisputable proof Christ is the son of God. pretend I am jewish, muslim, or any other religion that isn't Christian.
if you had indisputable proof the entire world would be Christian. I live by faith, you live by faith, and yet you throw stones because you can't see the proofs I have witnessed anymore then a muslim can see the proofs that you live by because you are willing to exercise faith.
p.s. lay anything on the table you want you can't prove to me I've gotten the 'white washed version' since you have absolutely no idea 'what versions I've been given'.
I'll let you choose the topic, if you like. I already know what you've been given, as I know the position of the church on most things. Don't forget, I have your standard works and several teaching manuals.
I'll tell you exactly how I would approach this; I will force the situation down until it is an issue of faith, and a person has to rely on God for the true answers.
again - a trust of the creator rather then the creation.
because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand
just because you have all our manuals & standard works does not mean you understand them... a person needs to read them with an open heart, and allow the spirit to teach them until this happens they are simply words on a page.
There's that suspension of disbelief again,the kind I watch Star Wars with. If what the church claims is true, there's no need for such because there's going to be a mountain of evidence. Instead, I find the order not to look for any archaeological places in your manuals. That's a bit odd, considering yours is the only church lead by Christ.
Didn't Jesus know that Thomas needed convincing, allowing him to put his finger into the holes in his hands? Why doesn't he bother with that now?
what makes you think he doesn't bother with that now?
lets go to the story of Paul - who's prayers were it that caused the vision Paul had? the same may be said of Thomas who was in the midst of others with the faith to see the Savior.
The LDS Jesus doesn't. He hides, he plays games, and speaks in code. He's the head of a secret club that people can't get into unless they have the "spirit (suspension of disbelief)."
now you'll go about proving how the Jesus that I worship is different then the one your worship. and who is the one, precisely, that is throwing out red herrings?
and tell me, exactly, how anybody is held from this 'secret club' you elude to?
My Jesus didn't make the mistake that yours did in 3 Nephi. My Jesus isn't a mere exalted man. My Jesus is neither married nor a polygamist. My Jesus doesn't beat the hell out of me with endless works, works, works. My Jesus suffered on the cross, not in the Garden. My Jesus doesn't turn black people white. My Jesus said "It is done," not "It's almost finished."
So why would God want to communicate in so secretive ways? You're trying to get me to accept the notion that Jesus is mercurial and elastic, bobbing and weaving until one joins the LDS? Jesus is not a greased pig at a county fair, no matter how you portray him.
Regarding your manuals, since Mormonism begs to be taken at face value, I do exactly that. There's no secret codes or hidden messages in the text; what it says is what it means.
what is a secret about the ways he communicate? I have found there to be nothing secretive about it, but rather quite the contrary.
however there are requirements to be met such as "if ye love me keep my commandments' etc...
and any text can have multiple meanings, and be twisted several different ways. if you want to understand the word of God you have to understand it through the communication means that He provides so one understands correctly. simple, easy, open, and bold.
What's secretive? You keep telling me that I've been reading your works for all these years and still don't understand them? That's a bit absurd, don't you think?
D&C 132:4 states that celestial marriage is a "new and everlasting covenant." We know that entails polygamy and temple marriage. That's pretty clear, right? everlasting means forever, yet the church renounced polygamy after 47 years, making that passage incorrect.
How does one read that and take anything else away from it?
no I don't think it is absurd. many saw the signs of the Saviors birth, and yet did not understand them. many heard Him, and saw miracles performed, and yet never understood.
how does one read, and take anything away from that? line upon line, precept upon precept. follow the commandments, let the spirit work in your life; live up to the promise that if we draw near unto Him that He will draw near unto us.
Backing down, eh? Sad. At least you're honest about it, acknowledging that it all comes down to a matter of faith. That's good, because it's all you have. You have to bend reality, history, physics, and theology in order to make it work and Mormons are indeed masters of such.
I'll tell you what, I'll do it: polygamy. Although I already know what you'll say and the defenses you'll use, I'll let you embarrass yourself on a public forum and say it anyway.
Why doesn't the church practice polygamy any more?
No, I won't assume you're as ignorant as you'd like. You're going to try to argue the point from the opposite direction and thus prove me incorrect (which would weaken your position as well).
Instead, since you accept the BOM as fact and is canonized by the church, I'll stick to it.
"One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other--This i my beloved Son. Hear Him!" (JS-History, 1:17)
Just another cult leader who was looking for money, power and women! You people supply the money, the bodies and minds to be powered over, and the women to be dependent upon the system for salvation. Just a bunch of sheep wearing holy underwear who think they will someday become gods populating the universe. It's not your fault, you were most likely born into the cult. If you weren't, then shame on you!
Deut 18:15: "The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy bretheren, like unto me, unto him ye shall hearken..."
Act 3:22-23: 'For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your bretheren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in al lthings whatsoever he shall say unto you."
thats great, and yet your 'quad' is the KJV which is based on a translation of a translation of a translation (etc you get the point). however - you still believe you can hold the fact true that there was no way he was quoting Moses.
for all either of us know Peter was directly quoting Moses. I usually don't try to make my own scriptures up in my head, but rather try to state them the way I read them / learn them (common sense). yet this is your big point?
Ah, here we go, the problems with the Bible. As we both know, the church maintains the notion that the Bible is incomplete, mistranslated, or missing man "plain and precious things."
Assuming that's true, why is it considered scripture by the LDS? And why doesn't the church use the JST? After all, the BOM states that both it and the Bible "contain the fulness of the Gospel." If it's so flawed, that statement can't possibly be true, can it?
Again, this isn't the Davinci Code. Jesus doesn't speak in foreign languages; he speaks to us in language we can easily understand. You're still going on about that suspension of disbelief, that's the "spirit" you're talking about.
I wrote with my own pen . . . as [Joseph] translated [the Book of Mormon] by the gift and power of God, by means of the Urim and Thummim, or, as it is called by the book, "holy interpreters." I beheld with my eyes, and handled with my hands, the gold plates from which it was translated. I also saw with my eyes and handled with my hands the "holy interpreters." The book is true. . . . It contains principles of salvation.
Really? Where might I find some evidence of "Reformed Egyptian" here or anywhere else? How about one single artifact that confirms the name of any one person or place in the BOM? Surely, then, some of those names and traditions would have survived until at least the time of Columbus, right? And why doesn't any native American language bear any resemblance to Hebrew? Lehi and Nephi were Jews, weren't they?
and why, exactly do I need to bring you any scrap of anything like that?
so pibsy63's original comment was that Christ went to be with the Father, and didn't come to the America's. so lets hold that subject to the same standard. show me the proof since, in your opinion, simply reading the scriptures & getting answers from the source is not valid in your opinion.
and how, precisely am I empty handed? I have plenty of proof you simply aren't willing to consider the proof because you aren't willing to believe anything you can't touch, see, or feel.
that doesn't change the fact that when you sincerely are willing to challenge that belief, and walk with faith you receive proofs are are more real then anything you can see, or touch etc.
having seen the lame to walk, and several other miracles, not to mention those fuzzy feelings you elude to, I have proof.
You'll contant that Lamanites and Nephites existed on the American continent before Christ. Where is the evidence of that? We know conclusively where two very important BOM sites are, so why no evidence yet?
You're telling me intangibles are more real than reality, huh? Weak position; I don't envy you. Yes, this needs proof because even the Bible said to prove all things and hold fast to that which is true, didn't it?
I assume there's no evidence of those miracles but your word, right?
there very much are evidences, but these experiences are sacred to me, and I will not cast them before the world like pearls before swine. I hold them close to my heart, and have no desire to put them in public where people will try to twist & pervert them.
I don't need to tell you 'my proof' because I'm sure you've seen similar proof countless times. yet you have put no stock in others experiences in the past, and I'm sure mine will not be any different.
The way I argue the point is to allow an average person of average intelligence to see both sides and see the absurdity of your position. That's why I argue specifics and you're forced to argue generalities. You already know how the argument goes; in the end, you lose every time.
The "experiences" you speak of are the "burning in the bosom," which you think makes you right, in spite of the glaring lack of evidence to otherwise prove your position.
if you believe the only evidences are burning in the bosom that is your prerogative. I can assure you that is FAR from the truth lol.
I have no need to prove anything to you. you can't prove you faith to me anymore then you can prove your beliefs to me (see comments below where you refuse).
You're right; you can't prove your faith to me because it's all you have. The evidence against it, much coming from your own works, are on my side of the issue.
I don't need to prove my faith to you. I am judged by my faith, my works, and how I follow the gospel.
the burden of your salvation lies on your shoulders, and finding that faith within your own heart. that is the way it has always been, and always will be.
Christ spoke in parables so that only those that were prepared for the message would understand, worked miracles etc, and allowed other to determine for themselves. yet you ask for proof - tells us exactly what your motives are.
"the burden of your salvation lies on your shoulders, and finding that faith within your own heart. that is the way it has always been, and always will be."
To throughout the word or traditions has having no base and is not proof is not responsible. Traditions or lore, often have factual base to them. To completely remove them from the picture is not good archeology. You look for proof? You'll have to wait. I don't care to wait for a brick to fall on my head to prove the law of gravity.
Research "white indians of darien". In my quick look at this, it appears that there are several incidents of early settlers , as well as late comers who have indeed seen, talked and walked with white indians. I don't offer this as proof but possibility of the accuracy of BoM. Not to mention a white indian group found in Tennessee. Also, in my research of East Starman A Iroqoius chief said anciently they warred a light skinned indian tribe near present day New York State. It goes on and on! Peace
My wife is from Honduras. There is a tribe of locals (Indians) that live there in one region who have white skin and blond hair. Could you please go and explain to them that they are ridiculous and a very bad joke!
In asking my wife, she said these people are not a tribe ( my bad) but a people that settled near Santa Barbara, Honduras, near Copan. They, according to her, are not a recent transplant, but have always "just been there" according to other local peoples. I will do some more digging to satisfy my curiosity, and pass it on here.
We're more sorry, because there is so much evidence supporting that the BoM that has emerged in recent years it just makes the critics of late look silly and ignorant.
WOW...LDS are CRAZY, BLASPHEMOUS, and do they really think they can CHANGE GODS HOLY ORD like that? CHRIST WAS BORN IN and WALKED IN JERUSALEM...not America...who the hell in their right mind would buy this crap??
What do you mean change God's ORD? Yes we believe Christ was born and walked in Jerusalem but after his resurrection visited the peoples of the Americas briefly. Do you have any questions?
Uh...Diana...mormons believe that Jesus was born in Jerusalem of Mary, God being his father, hence, he is the son of God. We believe he lived and died in the Jerusalem area. Jesus said,(John 10:16)"Other sheep I have, which are not of this fold. Them also will I visit, and they shall hear my voice..." Jesus, according to the BoM, visited or appeared to the people of America AFTER his resurrection. I think you totally misunderstood. Just wanted to make sure you understood. Peace!
Could you please post the clip from this DVD about DNA and the book of mormon. The world needs to know our church has an opinion on these subjects. Please post!
I have the DVD already and have watched it like 50 times. I just don't have the means to post it. You are a good man for doing this! The Truth is incredible!
If you go to my "favorites", on page 3 and 4, I've got about 6 videso of Scott Woodward giving a talk on DNA and The Book of Mormon. It is not as high quality as the DVD's, but the information is good. It is taken from his FAIR conference talk a few years ago.
I will also be posting a few more on DNA and The Book of Mormon from past FAIR conferences. I would do it today, but caught the flu. Hopefully by next week they will all be up. If you subscribe or become my friend, I'll let you know when they are up.
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READ ON OR DIE TONIGHT AT10:35 P.M.9 years ago a person named Jerry got dared to sleep in a house that was believed haunted.The next day his friends waited for him out side the house. They had to go inside and search for him.They went through every room except the attic. He wasn't supposed to sleep there.He was Supposed to sleep in the living room. They went into the attic. They saw Jerry's corpse and they just left because they were scared. Later Jerry Ghost Killed ThemPaste This To11 Vi
741pandalover 8 months ago
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"Check out my YouTube channel/playlists and websites for present-truth materials, Three Angels' Messages and God's last-mercy warning to His people in these last days.
Papacy = Antichrist / Little Horn / Beast from the Sea
Roman Catholicism = Whore of Babylon
Investigative Judgement has commenced in 1844 (1st Angel's Message)
Ellen G. White, 1827-1915 = End-time Prophet Sent of God
7th-day Sabbath = Seal of God
Sunday Worship to be Enforced as Mark of the Beast"
SeventhDayRemnant 8 months ago
Watch the video on youtube, "Jesus Christ in Chile (Signs of the Second Coming)"
superleonidas 10 months ago
Three LDS apostles spoke, including two former school presidents, David A. Bednar and Henry B. Eyring when it was Ricks College. REXBUR
omiolo 1 year ago
Thanks to the Mormon pioneers who settled there, Utah is 60% Mormon and one of America's most religiously homogenised states
omiolo 1 year ago
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Critics Christ's church have an axe to grind, I suppose.
in an ever changing world and one with increasing wickedness and godlessness, one would think that a second witness of the divinity of Christ would be welcomed with open arms. Mark my words... if a man had to face life or death because an atheist were to say that he only had faith in a Jewish God, and with a gun to his head, would he remember about this book? Would he plead for his life saying that another BOOK acts as evidence?
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
"This is what the Old Testament helps us see and what the Restoration helps us see," Brother Osguthorpe said. "Other people and other churches wouldn't have that insight, because they don't have prophets today."
omiolo 2 years ago
The Osguthorpes showed the class a picture of the three-level waterfall feature on the LDS Conference Center in Salt Lake City, where prophets and apostles speak. The teachers compared it to the canals that brought water into ancient Jerusalem and used both to teach the concept that prophets ancient and modern have brought the "living water" of the word of God to His children.
omiolo 2 years ago
Four years ago, the last time the Old Testament was taught in gospel doctrine class, Brother Osguthorpe and his wife, Lola, had the calling to teach it to an older-youth class of 14- and 15-year-olds. One of the lessons was on the imagery of living water as a comparison to the word of God.
omiolo 2 years ago
A theme in the Old Testament to which Latter-day Saints can relate is prophecy, Brother Osguthorpe noted. "The Old Testament is full of prophets, and we have a living prophet today."
omiolo 2 years ago
Should I also pray about Mein Kampf? The TV Guide? The repair manual for my car?
You're asking me to bet my eternal soul on my feelings? Doesn't the Bible say something about the heart being deceitful above all things? Take that and all of the other internal problems and inconsistancies with Mormonism and you have a false religion.
There's no way around it.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
if you feel your eternal salvations resides ini the Mein Kampf, the TV Guide, or the repair manual for your car then yes.
feelings are EXACTLY the tools we are given guide, and direct us. you are given a conscience, the Bible clearly teaches that it is the spirit that will teach us all things.
we are told promised that if we will do His will we will know whether it be of God, or of man. how do you know that if it isn't through a spirit to spirit communication that cannot be misunderstood?
solowookie 2 years ago
You know what I mean. But again, doesn't the Bible clearly state that the heart above all things is deceitful? When you trust your feelings, compounded by the utter lack of evidence for anything peculiar to Mormonism, however, you risk your eternal soul to damnation.
You're trying to tell me that when I read Mormon works, they're encoded, but I see no evidence of that at all. If they don't mean what they say, why bother printing them at all?
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
so tell me why you have a conscience? I believe this is a gift from otherwise referred to as the 'light of Christ'.
you make it sound like the 'Christmas Story', and the kid with encoder ring lol. and here you call me the master manipulator.
and yes I do know what you mean which is you don't seriously believe in personal revelation. the ability to pray, get direct answers for prayers, and actually be guided by a loving Heavenly Father.
solowookie 2 years ago
Well, not everyone has a conscience, though I don't know the reason.
"you make it sound like the 'Christmas Story', and the kid with encoder ring lol. and here you call me the master manipulator."
That's exactly what you said when you told me I didn't understand the Mormon literature that I have. You tell me that it says one thing, but really means something else.
I never said I didn't believe in personal revelation; I said the church was false because of its false doctrines.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
there is a difference between not having a conscience, and ignoring it long enough it is dulled.
everyone has a conscience.
the personal revelation remark is a view of your remarks over several situations particularly the fact we 'should not follow our hearts'.
solowookie 2 years ago
Really? How many psychologists interviewed and studied Ted Bundy? And tell me how a man could, apparently without abuse or neglect, become a monster that raped, tortured, killed, and sodomized his victims even after death.
Read a few books about the man and tell me again that everyone has a conscience.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
I don't need to read the books about Ted Bundy to know everybody has a conscience.
solowookie 2 years ago
You make assumptions, but when Bundy killed, he did so without remorse and was never bothered by what he'd done. In fact, his last act of free will was to twist James Dobson into believing that pornography was the starting point of his crimes and you tell me that not everyone has a conscience?
You have a lot to learn about people.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
this coming from somebody who cannot prove their own faith, and yet expects other people to.
there is a difference between a conscience that has been dulled, and not having one at all.
you don't get into a scenario where you are killing people without remorse over night. there is very obviously other decisions, thoughts, and actions that come into play here.
just because somebody has a conscience does not mean they follow its guiding light. I know I don't always follow mine.
solowookie 2 years ago
And why would I need to prove something you and I both accept as fact? By demanding such, you're throwing a red herring into the mix. There's proof for Biblical events and people, and none for anything contained in the BOM. Combine that with all of the problems and contradictions inherent to Mormonism and you have a false religion, claiming Christ as its own.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
we bring the same examples / witnesses to bear the Savior did, and yet you aren't willing to believe them. all the works the Savior said would accompany his people exist in this church as Christ stated in the Bible.
we have 12 witnesses who handled the book personally, and testified to the fact. not one of those men denied this to their last breath even though some fell away from the church.
there are other evidences, many, but you find ways to dismiss those as well of course.
solowookie 2 years ago
I don't believe them because they're not true.
Your 12 witnesses? Some claimed to have seen some plates, nothing more, but didn't David Whitmer write a scathing book about how the church had fallen into error before 1838?
And why would they have left the church, all excommunicated, I believe, if they knew the church to be correct? And then you want me to take their word for JS having translated the plates correctly when he's also known to have translated forgeries?
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
I believe them because they are true.
David Whitmer never denied having seen the plates, some of those witnesses were shown the plates by the Angel Mormoni. you claim to have read the book multiple times you should be well versed with the testimonies of the wintesses contained in the beginning of the book.
some of them returned to the church later, and were restored to full membership, but none every denied their witnesses of the books. how odd leave the church, & yet never deny the book.
solowookie 2 years ago
Since you put so much stock in those witnesses, let's see what JS said about them, shall we?
"Such characters as McLellin, John Whitmer, David Whitmer, Oliver Cowdery, and Martin Harris are too mean to mention; and we had liked to have forgotten them." (HOTC Vol 3, p 232)
"This poor man who professes to be much of a prophet, has no other dumb ass to ride but David Whitmer..." (HOTC Vol 3, p 228)
Even your false prophet didn't put as much stock in them as the church does now.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
explain to me, exactly, what any of that has to do with seeing something miraculous, and never denying it to their dying day?
those witnesses would easily stand up in any court of law; actually the Book of Mormon was put on trial in a court, and they were not able to prove it was false.
here you stand thinking you can accomplish something they could not do through the legal system.
solowookie 2 years ago
Did you read my last post? The modern church obviously thinks far more of those "witnesses" than did JS:
"But no sooner were they (Martin Harris and others) excluded from the fellowship of the church and gave loose, to all kinds of abominations, swearing, lying, cheating, swindling, drinking, with every species of debauchery..." (Elders' Journal, edited by Joseph Smith, Aug 1838, p 59)
And you'd like me to take the word of men who lie, cheat, and steal?
No, thanks.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
obviously your tactic is going to be to discredit these men. I've learned, long ago, an anti like you will take one statement, loose the context, and you'll take 1 line to twist & turn as you like.
also - there were a total of 12 men you are only mentioning a few.
2-3 witnesses easily stand up in a court of law, and we are talking 12 total.
admit it this argument is as weak as your inability to prove the divinity of Christ.
solowookie 2 years ago
I didn't discredit them; I used the words of Joseph Smith himself. He called Martin Harris a dumb ass, the man who lost the Book of Lehi.
And there's a lot more where that came from. Those men weren't exactly reliable, credible people whose word could be relied upon.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
you & I both know you didn't include the entire context - nobody like you ever does...
yes - that is going to be our calling card "those men weren't reliable"...
solowookie 2 years ago
Why do I need to prove the divinity of Christ? Isn't that something we both agree upon? Your own scriptures say exactly that, as do mine. That's the same as asking me if I believe the sky to be blue or the grass green, and is presented as a stumbling block that hasn't yet worked.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
why do you need to prove it? proving the sky is blue, or the grass is green is simple; walk outside and look.
you can't prove Chris is the son of God without looking through spiritual eyes.
FYI - it is a stumbling block - to all those who may read this, and realize how hypocritical you are. and maybe, just maybe, instead of believing your trash at face value they'll investigate for themselves.
solowookie 2 years ago
I've heard about this "trial," but know nothing about it. That said, there's nothing alone to prove it false, but its lack of evidence, combined with false prophesies, changes in history and doctrine, and its inherent contradictions undermine every claim your church makes.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
you being the scholar you claim to be would suggest you'd know all about this trial.
it is obvious the reason you don't; the Book of Mormon stood the test in the legal system. if I were you I wouldn't know anything about it either.
solowookie 2 years ago
I already said I didn't, but don't read too much into it. I never claimed to be an expert.
The major propblem is that the BOM echoes much of the Bible, but the main tenets of Mormonism that set it apart aren't contained in either.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
I thought you read the BofM? yea the main tenants of the religion are contained in that book, and they are contain in the Bible as well.
get out your decoder ring you'll find them in abundant fashion.
wasn't it you that stated you read the BofM several times? I would call that an expert on the book.
solowookie 2 years ago
I have; tell me where in the BOM I can find Jesus teaching of God being married, of us all being spiritual siblings, that he's an exalted being and that we, too, can become gods, anything about the pre-mortal existance, that God has a physical body, that there are three levels of Heaven, that polygamy would be permitted even while it was publicly denounced, that he, God, and the Holy Spirit are separate and distinct, or that he atoned for our sins in the Garden.
I can't seem to find them.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
first of all you obviously don't understand some of the doctrine. secondly part of the things you mentioned are indeed in there.
last - the fullness of the gospel means all the knowledge we need to be saved. the fullness of the gospel is in the Book of Mormon.
you seriously need to get your decoder ring out.
solowookie 2 years ago
Really? Go ahead and lay it on me.
I know, I know, I read your texts on a regular basis and you keep telling me that they don't say what they say. Where does one get those decoder rings at?
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
read Alma 32 for starts when you learn to use the decoder we'll go into where some of that is at.
solowookie 2 years ago
When I have time. You tell me that the books don't say what they mean and don't mean what they say. Why does God talk in riddles and nonsense? Since I think we'll agree that God wants us all to avoid the pain of an eternity in Hell, why all the veiled doctrine, the Biblical-sounding double speak?
That would make it harder for people to follow him, not easier.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
they say exactly what they mean.
why did Christ talk in parables?
solowookie 2 years ago
let's go back to the 1st Century, and Christ has ascended and charged the apostles with the mission of:
1. feeding the flock with spiritual food.
2. preaching the gospel to the PAGAN world.
A world that couldn't accept the gospel of JESUS CHRIST in its purest form, so by the 4th century and after the martyrdom of the apostles, they accepted a watered down version.
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
So it only makes sense that with the restoration of the gospel in its purest form, it would seem a different interpretation of the scriptures, but not contradictory.
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
Acts 3: 19 - 21 Peter spoke of the Refreshing of times and the RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS...
He is talking bout the day when the authority to act in God's name is returned to the earth.
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
The problem is that the word used is restitution, not restoration. It means a repayment, not reinstitution.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
Watered down? Now that's an interesting charge in light of the fact that your own church has given up on some of its core doctrines, such as blacks never being permitted the priesthood in this life and the essential-for-exaltation policy of polygamy.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
blacks should have always been allowed the priesthood, however it happened and Brigham young was a product of his day, but Joseph Smith never was racist, and in his presidential run, tho cut short cause he was murdered in cold blood. But in his campaign he was going to abolish slavery! Also noteworthy that Joseph Smith personally ordained Elijah Abel, a man of african roots.
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
RESTITUTION is bringing back what was lost.
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
Umm, you need to get a dictionary. My defines restitution thus: "restoring of a thing of a thing to its proper owner, or reparation."
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
Well it makes only perfect sense since the church was RESTORED, according to the scriptures, and Jesus Christ is the owner.
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
very good video.
JackNimble61 2 years ago
I don't understand why this is so quickly shut out as fiction? If you believe in Jesus Christ, what do you have against Him showing Himself to other people. Shouldn't it just make you happy that more people can witness to His reality? That more people, in more places saw in Him in the flesh--shouldn't that build your faith in Him since you won't get to see Him until He comes again? I know that God loves ALL His children, and wants all to believe in Him. The Book of Mormon is proof of that!
musicaljensen 2 years ago
Well, first, there's not one single shred of evidence for Lamanites, Nephites, or pre-Columbian Christianity/Judaism. Nothing.
Second, we have the false prophesies of Joseph Smith; not one has come true. Nope, not one.
And look at 3 Nephi 20:23-25. Notice how the Mormon Jesus says he's going to quote Moses (Deut 18:15) but uses almost the same exact words that Peter used to paraphrase (Acts 3:22-23). How could a god make such a mistake?
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
oh - here's my favorite part "Second, we have the false prophesies of Joseph Smith; not one has come true. Nope, not one."
and you call yourself objective in the slightest sense of the word?
solowookie 2 years ago
How can I be objective when you have this kind of stupidity considered scripture?
Am I objective? When I first started to research Mormonism some 13 years ago, yes, I was. I didn't know anything about it then, but the more I learned, the less credibility it had.
This bit of comedy is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the major problems of Mormonism. I can back up everything I say, but at the end of the day, all you have is fuzzy feelings.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
sorry real live miracles are far from 'fuzzy feelings'.
while the proof I bring to the table doesn't mean much to me you can rest assured that your arguments & statements probably mean even less to me.
I'm willing to believe the indisputable evidences from beyond the veil over the evidences that man can bring to the table. I'll break that down I will believe the creator over man, His creation.
solowookie 2 years ago
What is your proof? And which prophesies came true.? You keep dodging the issue because we both know what the answer is, don't we?
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
no - I didn't dodge the question, and you did not respond to my question of a similar nature... oh yea, when you ask me that I'm playing 'childish games' when I ask you the same question you simply avoid the question...
convenient isn't it?
my answer was simple, and I didn't avoid your question, I believe the creator rather then the creation. you are the creation with limited knowledge / understanding why wouldn't I believe a being who knows all over you?
solowookie 2 years ago
You want me to prove something that we both believe, thus trying to sidetrack the conversation and distract me from proving the point. If you won't answer the question, who appears weak?
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
well - in my opinion I believe your statement is weak.
you ask my to prove issues of faith, and yet you, yourself, or unable & unwilling to prove similar issues of faith. your opinions are, simply put, hypocritical.
I see no side track to the conversation. I see it as your own inability to prove your own faith.
solowookie 2 years ago
You're throwing that red herring out there as a stumbling block, turning a non-issue into an issue of artificial importance and thus manufacturing a reason to not answer a specific point. Mormons are very good at the word games and semantics, but it only works on those who don't understand Mormonism.
You made a point and again, the burden of proof is yours.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
wouldn't it just be more simple for you to admit that you can't?
what you call a 'non issue' is a very important issue to me. your approach to everything here is hypocritical, and you know that.
yet you call this word games and systematics. you can justify it anyway you want to, but the truth is still the truth.
Christ worked many miracles that people saw, and yet they still didn't believe. faith / religion has always been a matter of the heart, and you turn it into a systematics game.
solowookie 2 years ago
Can't what? You're asking me to "prove" something that we both agree on, so the point is moot. Why would you want me to prove that my car is blue when we're both standing next to it and can see plainly that it's blue?
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
because you are asking me to prove matters of faith, and you yourself cannot prove matter of faith. you know this to be true.
you try to break it down as easily as us both seeing a blue car, but yet you cannot prove religion anymore then I can.
you cannot prove what I asked you to prove, and yet you break it down to an analogy of the paint color of a car.
reality it is that simple, but you have to be willing to see with the heart, and be sincere about it.
solowookie 2 years ago
There were no such thing as Nephites! Its all fictional!
breezwonder 2 years ago
"Your mormon Jesus is not the same as the real biblical one. "
My reply:
What you really mean is...."YOUR" jesus is not the same jesus of the bible as it is part of a three-headed blob who has to be described by the analogy of either a triangle, water in its three phases or an egg...lol..show me where in the bible Christ used the same analogies please...ROFL!!!
There is much viable evidence that points to the book of Mormon as plausible. please don't make this mistake.
FAIRLDSdotORG
LDSTrueChurch 2 years ago 3
And that's the entire point you strive for: plausibility, even if it's only 1%, you have to take that as a victory because you have no evidence that anything in the BOM ever happened.
And thanks, to you; I use your name as my password. No one would ever guess it!
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
give me your proof Christ is the son of God, and not simply with that Jews believe. hold your beliefs to the same standard.
solowookie 2 years ago
Why would I want to try to prove something that we both believe? I'm not Jewish so I have no idea what you're talking about there.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
You're playing games because you're empty-handed.
solowookie 2 years ago
Am I? Let's get into specifics, shall we? Where would you like to start? Inconsistancies in LDS scripture? The major problems with the Furst Vision? Polygamy? Book of Abraham? The problems with the JST?
Lay the topic on the table and I'll show you that you've been lied to about it. The church has changed, amended, rewritten, and hidden nearly every part of its own history, doctrine, and purpose; you've only gotten the whitewashed version.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
lets get back to the basics, nice side tangent.
the question is provide me indisputable proof Christ is the son of God. pretend I am jewish, muslim, or any other religion that isn't Christian.
if you had indisputable proof the entire world would be Christian. I live by faith, you live by faith, and yet you throw stones because you can't see the proofs I have witnessed anymore then a muslim can see the proofs that you live by because you are willing to exercise faith.
solowookie 2 years ago
p.s. lay anything on the table you want you can't prove to me I've gotten the 'white washed version' since you have absolutely no idea 'what versions I've been given'.
go ahead, give it your best shot.
solowookie 2 years ago
I'll let you choose the topic, if you like. I already know what you've been given, as I know the position of the church on most things. Don't forget, I have your standard works and several teaching manuals.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
no - sorry I'm not going to pick a topic.
I'll tell you exactly how I would approach this; I will force the situation down until it is an issue of faith, and a person has to rely on God for the true answers.
again - a trust of the creator rather then the creation.
solowookie 2 years ago
p.s.
because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand
just because you have all our manuals & standard works does not mean you understand them... a person needs to read them with an open heart, and allow the spirit to teach them until this happens they are simply words on a page.
solowookie 2 years ago
There's that suspension of disbelief again,the kind I watch Star Wars with. If what the church claims is true, there's no need for such because there's going to be a mountain of evidence. Instead, I find the order not to look for any archaeological places in your manuals. That's a bit odd, considering yours is the only church lead by Christ.
Didn't Jesus know that Thomas needed convincing, allowing him to put his finger into the holes in his hands? Why doesn't he bother with that now?
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
what makes you think he doesn't bother with that now?
lets go to the story of Paul - who's prayers were it that caused the vision Paul had? the same may be said of Thomas who was in the midst of others with the faith to see the Savior.
solowookie 2 years ago
The LDS Jesus doesn't. He hides, he plays games, and speaks in code. He's the head of a secret club that people can't get into unless they have the "spirit (suspension of disbelief)."
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
now we start with the 'LDS Jesus'...
now you'll go about proving how the Jesus that I worship is different then the one your worship. and who is the one, precisely, that is throwing out red herrings?
and tell me, exactly, how anybody is held from this 'secret club' you elude to?
solowookie 2 years ago
My Jesus didn't make the mistake that yours did in 3 Nephi. My Jesus isn't a mere exalted man. My Jesus is neither married nor a polygamist. My Jesus doesn't beat the hell out of me with endless works, works, works. My Jesus suffered on the cross, not in the Garden. My Jesus doesn't turn black people white. My Jesus said "It is done," not "It's almost finished."
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
So why would God want to communicate in so secretive ways? You're trying to get me to accept the notion that Jesus is mercurial and elastic, bobbing and weaving until one joins the LDS? Jesus is not a greased pig at a county fair, no matter how you portray him.
Regarding your manuals, since Mormonism begs to be taken at face value, I do exactly that. There's no secret codes or hidden messages in the text; what it says is what it means.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
what is a secret about the ways he communicate? I have found there to be nothing secretive about it, but rather quite the contrary.
however there are requirements to be met such as "if ye love me keep my commandments' etc...
and any text can have multiple meanings, and be twisted several different ways. if you want to understand the word of God you have to understand it through the communication means that He provides so one understands correctly. simple, easy, open, and bold.
solowookie 2 years ago
What's secretive? You keep telling me that I've been reading your works for all these years and still don't understand them? That's a bit absurd, don't you think?
D&C 132:4 states that celestial marriage is a "new and everlasting covenant." We know that entails polygamy and temple marriage. That's pretty clear, right? everlasting means forever, yet the church renounced polygamy after 47 years, making that passage incorrect.
How does one read that and take anything else away from it?
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
no I don't think it is absurd. many saw the signs of the Saviors birth, and yet did not understand them. many heard Him, and saw miracles performed, and yet never understood.
how does one read, and take anything away from that? line upon line, precept upon precept. follow the commandments, let the spirit work in your life; live up to the promise that if we draw near unto Him that He will draw near unto us.
solowookie 2 years ago
Backing down, eh? Sad. At least you're honest about it, acknowledging that it all comes down to a matter of faith. That's good, because it's all you have. You have to bend reality, history, physics, and theology in order to make it work and Mormons are indeed masters of such.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
I'll tell you what, I'll do it: polygamy. Although I already know what you'll say and the defenses you'll use, I'll let you embarrass yourself on a public forum and say it anyway.
Why doesn't the church practice polygamy any more?
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
pray about it we'll just cut all the red tape in between the song & dance...
solowookie 2 years ago
No, I won't assume you're as ignorant as you'd like. You're going to try to argue the point from the opposite direction and thus prove me incorrect (which would weaken your position as well).
Instead, since you accept the BOM as fact and is canonized by the church, I'll stick to it.
"One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other--This i my beloved Son. Hear Him!" (JS-History, 1:17)
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
what comedy show is this from ?? ha,ha! look at these `business` men spew out the same old crap ! Oh Please this is utter RUBBISH!
10major 2 years ago 3
nigga please......
drowsy4 3 years ago
Comment removed
zane1963 3 years ago
I love getting lectures on religious beliefs from people who have fetish videos on their sites.
fairldsorg 3 years ago
Just another cult leader who was looking for money, power and women! You people supply the money, the bodies and minds to be powered over, and the women to be dependent upon the system for salvation. Just a bunch of sheep wearing holy underwear who think they will someday become gods populating the universe. It's not your fault, you were most likely born into the cult. If you weren't, then shame on you!
BODYSHEENdottcom 3 years ago
I love getting lectures on religious beliefs from people who have fetish sex videos on their sites.
fairldsorg 3 years ago 2
I don't think lectures would do you any good.
phys1c 3 years ago
cult?
no I think a cult would be more like the crap you have listed as the favorites on your site.
perhaps you should worry about casting the beam out of your own eye before seeking to cast a moat out of ours.
solowookie 3 years ago 4
Aw, playing the victim role again? Your faith cast the first stone and I'm simply responding with its own standards.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
you call this a reply?
solowookie 2 years ago
Yep. What of it?
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
guess I figured if you were going to bother wasting both of our time you'd actually bring something, anything, to the table...
solowookie 2 years ago
What would you like? You can start with the 3 Nephi 20:23-25 problem...
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
I don't have a problem with 3 Nephi 20:23-25...
solowookie 2 years ago
That means you obviously did read it. Jesus said he was going to quote Moses, but quotes Peter instead, using his exact words.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
and yet you have no proof that Peter was not quoting Moses...
thats awesome
solowookie 2 years ago
Really?
Deut 18:15: "The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy bretheren, like unto me, unto him ye shall hearken..."
Act 3:22-23: 'For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your bretheren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in al lthings whatsoever he shall say unto you."
Thats word-for-word from my 1996 quad.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
thats great, and yet your 'quad' is the KJV which is based on a translation of a translation of a translation (etc you get the point). however - you still believe you can hold the fact true that there was no way he was quoting Moses.
for all either of us know Peter was directly quoting Moses. I usually don't try to make my own scriptures up in my head, but rather try to state them the way I read them / learn them (common sense). yet this is your big point?
solowookie 2 years ago
Ah, here we go, the problems with the Bible. As we both know, the church maintains the notion that the Bible is incomplete, mistranslated, or missing man "plain and precious things."
Assuming that's true, why is it considered scripture by the LDS? And why doesn't the church use the JST? After all, the BOM states that both it and the Bible "contain the fulness of the Gospel." If it's so flawed, that statement can't possibly be true, can it?
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
again - if you see words on a page, but don't understand it 'through' the spirit then they are simply that, words on a page...
there is more meaning to that phrase then you give it credit, but then again you know that already don't you?
so - why don't you give me the answer that I'm going to give you anyway, and we can put this part of your charade aside.
solowookie 2 years ago
Again, this isn't the Davinci Code. Jesus doesn't speak in foreign languages; he speaks to us in language we can easily understand. You're still going on about that suspension of disbelief, that's the "spirit" you're talking about.
You haven't asked me anything of substance yet.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
and yet when he was on this earth he never talked in english...
do you speak any foreign languages?
solowookie 2 years ago
You know exactly what I mean. Not like French (though God spoke French in the BOM), but in a way that we wouldn't understand.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
Oliver Cowdery, Witness to the Book of Mormon
I wrote with my own pen . . . as [Joseph] translated [the Book of Mormon] by the gift and power of God, by means of the Urim and Thummim, or, as it is called by the book, "holy interpreters." I beheld with my eyes, and handled with my hands, the gold plates from which it was translated. I also saw with my eyes and handled with my hands the "holy interpreters." The book is true. . . . It contains principles of salvation.
fairlds . org
GodLovedJosephSmith 3 years ago
Point?
phys1c 3 years ago
how can you believe this rubbish, Jesus went to be with the father, he didnt nip to america to see mickey mouse..lol
pibsy63 3 years ago
your right mickey mouse came latter...
yea - he did come to America there are many native americans with legends of a white God who visited this continent.
solowookie 3 years ago
Really? Where might I find some evidence of "Reformed Egyptian" here or anywhere else? How about one single artifact that confirms the name of any one person or place in the BOM? Surely, then, some of those names and traditions would have survived until at least the time of Columbus, right? And why doesn't any native American language bear any resemblance to Hebrew? Lehi and Nephi were Jews, weren't they?
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
and why, exactly do I need to bring you any scrap of anything like that?
so pibsy63's original comment was that Christ went to be with the Father, and didn't come to the America's. so lets hold that subject to the same standard. show me the proof since, in your opinion, simply reading the scriptures & getting answers from the source is not valid in your opinion.
solowookie 2 years ago
You're playing games because you're empty-handed. Your assertion is that the church is correct and therefore the burden of proof is yours.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
and how, precisely am I empty handed? I have plenty of proof you simply aren't willing to consider the proof because you aren't willing to believe anything you can't touch, see, or feel.
that doesn't change the fact that when you sincerely are willing to challenge that belief, and walk with faith you receive proofs are are more real then anything you can see, or touch etc.
having seen the lame to walk, and several other miracles, not to mention those fuzzy feelings you elude to, I have proof.
solowookie 2 years ago
You'll contant that Lamanites and Nephites existed on the American continent before Christ. Where is the evidence of that? We know conclusively where two very important BOM sites are, so why no evidence yet?
You're telling me intangibles are more real than reality, huh? Weak position; I don't envy you. Yes, this needs proof because even the Bible said to prove all things and hold fast to that which is true, didn't it?
I assume there's no evidence of those miracles but your word, right?
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
there very much are evidences, but these experiences are sacred to me, and I will not cast them before the world like pearls before swine. I hold them close to my heart, and have no desire to put them in public where people will try to twist & pervert them.
I don't need to tell you 'my proof' because I'm sure you've seen similar proof countless times. yet you have put no stock in others experiences in the past, and I'm sure mine will not be any different.
solowookie 2 years ago
The way I argue the point is to allow an average person of average intelligence to see both sides and see the absurdity of your position. That's why I argue specifics and you're forced to argue generalities. You already know how the argument goes; in the end, you lose every time.
The "experiences" you speak of are the "burning in the bosom," which you think makes you right, in spite of the glaring lack of evidence to otherwise prove your position.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
if you believe the only evidences are burning in the bosom that is your prerogative. I can assure you that is FAR from the truth lol.
I have no need to prove anything to you. you can't prove you faith to me anymore then you can prove your beliefs to me (see comments below where you refuse).
solowookie 2 years ago
You're right; you can't prove your faith to me because it's all you have. The evidence against it, much coming from your own works, are on my side of the issue.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
I don't need to prove my faith to you. I am judged by my faith, my works, and how I follow the gospel.
the burden of your salvation lies on your shoulders, and finding that faith within your own heart. that is the way it has always been, and always will be.
Christ spoke in parables so that only those that were prepared for the message would understand, worked miracles etc, and allowed other to determine for themselves. yet you ask for proof - tells us exactly what your motives are.
solowookie 2 years ago
"the burden of your salvation lies on your shoulders, and finding that faith within your own heart. that is the way it has always been, and always will be."
We agree on this one single point.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
These mormons sure know how to draw and paint.
luikovicas 3 years ago
To throughout the word or traditions has having no base and is not proof is not responsible. Traditions or lore, often have factual base to them. To completely remove them from the picture is not good archeology. You look for proof? You'll have to wait. I don't care to wait for a brick to fall on my head to prove the law of gravity.
LordPillsbury1959 3 years ago
Research "white indians of darien". In my quick look at this, it appears that there are several incidents of early settlers , as well as late comers who have indeed seen, talked and walked with white indians. I don't offer this as proof but possibility of the accuracy of BoM. Not to mention a white indian group found in Tennessee. Also, in my research of East Starman A Iroqoius chief said anciently they warred a light skinned indian tribe near present day New York State. It goes on and on! Peace
LordPillsbury1959 3 years ago
A white Anglo looking Jesus? White Anglo looking Indians? How utterly ridicules? This is a very bad joke!
vcomp1960 3 years ago
My wife is from Honduras. There is a tribe of locals (Indians) that live there in one region who have white skin and blond hair. Could you please go and explain to them that they are ridiculous and a very bad joke!
LordPillsbury1959 3 years ago
I'm sorry! I don't belive it! Just because you say it, doesn't make it true. Give me credible reference(s) so I can look it up myself.
vcomp1960 3 years ago
In asking my wife, she said these people are not a tribe ( my bad) but a people that settled near Santa Barbara, Honduras, near Copan. They, according to her, are not a recent transplant, but have always "just been there" according to other local peoples. I will do some more digging to satisfy my curiosity, and pass it on here.
LordPillsbury1959 3 years ago
We're more sorry, because there is so much evidence supporting that the BoM that has emerged in recent years it just makes the critics of late look silly and ignorant.
fairlds . org
for the truth.
GodLovedJosephSmith 3 years ago
Have it published in a solid scientific journal!
phys1c 3 years ago
Blasphemy? How is the fact that Christ loves all people and has other sheep (Jn 10:16) and visits them? I dont call it blaspemy I call it amazing.
crashmclarsen 4 years ago
WOW...LDS are CRAZY, BLASPHEMOUS, and do they really think they can CHANGE GODS HOLY ORD like that? CHRIST WAS BORN IN and WALKED IN JERUSALEM...not America...who the hell in their right mind would buy this crap??
DianaArmstrongGonzal 4 years ago
What do you mean change God's ORD? Yes we believe Christ was born and walked in Jerusalem but after his resurrection visited the peoples of the Americas briefly. Do you have any questions?
medtech14 4 years ago
YOU FREAK
elrevengerve 3 years ago
Uh...Diana...mormons believe that Jesus was born in Jerusalem of Mary, God being his father, hence, he is the son of God. We believe he lived and died in the Jerusalem area. Jesus said,(John 10:16)"Other sheep I have, which are not of this fold. Them also will I visit, and they shall hear my voice..." Jesus, according to the BoM, visited or appeared to the people of America AFTER his resurrection. I think you totally misunderstood. Just wanted to make sure you understood. Peace!
LordPillsbury1959 3 years ago
Could you please post the clip from this DVD about DNA and the book of mormon. The world needs to know our church has an opinion on these subjects. Please post!
medtech14 4 years ago
I should be picking up FAIRs video titled "The Book of Mormon and New World DNA
from the replicator on Friday. Once I've got them and deliver them to Deseret Book distribution, I'll go through and find some good clips to put up.
fairldsorg 4 years ago
Also, you can buy FARMs DVD from the link I give in the "about this video".
Or, if you look on my homepage, I give some information on it's time and channel when it appears on TV.
fairldsorg 4 years ago
For more video clips like these, go to fairldsorg channel at
youtube dot com/user/fairldsorg
fairldsorg 4 years ago
I have the DVD already and have watched it like 50 times. I just don't have the means to post it. You are a good man for doing this! The Truth is incredible!
medtech14 4 years ago
Do you have FARMS DVD or FAIRs?
fairldsorg 4 years ago
No but I keep updated through friends that have it.
medtech14 4 years ago
If you go to my "favorites", on page 3 and 4, I've got about 6 videso of Scott Woodward giving a talk on DNA and The Book of Mormon. It is not as high quality as the DVD's, but the information is good. It is taken from his FAIR conference talk a few years ago.
fairldsorg 4 years ago
Awesome!
medtech14 4 years ago
I will also be posting a few more on DNA and The Book of Mormon from past FAIR conferences. I would do it today, but caught the flu. Hopefully by next week they will all be up. If you subscribe or become my friend, I'll let you know when they are up.
Thanks for watching!
fairldsorg 4 years ago
You that bought the DVD wasted your money and you don't KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE TRUTH if you believe this CRAP!!!!!!
DianaArmstrongGonzal 4 years ago