Misconceptions by Non-Muslims- Nouman Ali Khan Pt 2

[msaint2326]

ummm...does this apply to Khalid Ibn al Walid? I mean, the big MO didn't like ...apologize or anything for breaking this rule, right? I mean hey! It's not like your full of shit or anything.............right?

[DreadStorm]

That language point again. It's unsettling.

Anyway, no real points to make on this one, as there is no issue with the examples given to explain moral guide and law.

Except one. If this message of Islam was given to the world, why the language? Is Arabic supposed to be the perfect language that your religion is supposed to be in? Because that also flies into the face of what is taught in The Beginning, where god came down to confuse the language. Seems like defiance to me.

[lemuriavi]

@DreadStorm Imagine the final revelation of God is in English, or in French, or whatever. What difference would it make, people would still argue, why not my native language? There's a verse in the Quran which answers this question too.

But remember that before the final revelation,God has revealed his messages in other languages too. Adam doesn't speak arab i guess, but did he got the message? Of course.

[DreadStorm]

@lemuriavi No, no, I'm not saying it like why not MY language. I'm more concerned about the lack of translation. I'm the last one that can be convinced that there's no English word for _____ (take your pick). Everyone knows that words can be invented and defined at the spur of the moment. The issue that arises - especially among the suspicious - is that Islam is trying to hide something. Now, with that in mind, If I were to convert, I would refuse the process because of the Arabic.

[lemuriavi]

@DreadStorm I'm no language expert. But as far as I know, you can literally translate anything from another language to another. But it won't be the same, there's a lot of things that must be considered like cultural reference, the norms of that particular language,etc.

Why would you think Islam tries to hide something? Knowledge is there for whom who are interested to learn.

Take War and Peace by Tolstoy for example, people who can read in Russian knows how different it is in English.

[lemuriavi]

@DreadStorm Just an example how rich is Arabic;the word love.If I'm not mistaken there are more than 50 words that means love. I doubt we have the same thing in English or any other languages. This is only one of example where you never can translate any language to another without losing some parts of it;the nuances especially.

I'm no expert in Arabic myself, I learn how to recite but not to converse in Arabic,thus I myself rely on translations in french for example.I look forward to learn it.

[DreadStorm]

@lemuriavi Isn't that why people pot other words with it? Some examples being "unconditional" love, or "steadfast" love. Now, considering that someone can recite a language, without knowing what they're saying, it really something in the realm of absurdity. No offense. After all, what's the point of learning something if you don't use it? I watched a few conversions, and seeing the newbies saying something they have no idea what it means just rubs me the wrong way, for some reason.

[lemuriavi]

@DreadStorm I can understand if you think it's absurd that I can recite the quran but don't understand arabic. It reflects the poor condition of muslims nowadays, and I'm among them. It's more absurd when knowing the first revelation was indeed Read,Read in the name of Allah, thus the importance of knowledge. Even Muhammad said to search for knowledge even if one needs to go until China.

[lemuriavi]

@DreadStorm But if you were to ask if I regret for only able to recite and not able to read, I'd no because to be able to recite the quran is a pleasure to all believers.

It's fairly normal to have some doubts when one don't understand the language, but as a believer who has faith in Allah, the doubts aren't not with Allah but rather with our understanding in the Quran. I think it is an important distinction to make.

[lemuriavi]

@DreadStorm In my case, still the regret of not learning arabic is with me, especially when I had the choice between arabic,japanese and german, which I opted for japanese. One who didn't have the opportunity to learn the arabic might also have regrets, but not as how I regret mine.

But do I regret learning japanese for the price of not learning arabic? Of course not. I can't deny how much opportunities that have been opened for me.

[lemuriavi]

@DreadStorm And finally as a muslim, I realized that we should be grateful for what we have. Even if I'm not able to converse in it now, but I'm still alive, thus Allah still gives me the opportunity to use the ressources that I have in this world for the sake of hereafter.

Maybe I've said more than enough about my arabic.

[lemuriavi]

@DreadStorm Secondly regarding conversions you've watched. I think it's a good idea to have a glimpse of new brothers and sisters in Islam. But is that our reason why we want to have faith in this religion? Is it because of some muslims who are incapable to speak in arabic while able to recite the quran that we put our faith on hold?

If you want these examples, I can definitely gives you more striking examples on muslims.

[lemuriavi]

@DreadStorm I won't say what the medias say is all gospel but if the muslims but if the muslims are perfect, the medias won't able to even scratch Islam a bit.

The Quran doesn't says to find God by looking at the believers but the content of Islam itself. God asks us to ponder and reflect not blindly following.

I've find mine and I hope you'll find yours. There's no compulsory in this religion.

May Allah gives you guidances. Insyaallah

[DreadStorm]

@lemuriavi You did well. It's a shame that you follow a false religion, because people as kind as you are nothing less than an asset. I will say this, though. If I find a Qur'an in complete and total English, I may give it another read. Even still, knowing what I know, I'd never convert. But perhaps I may think better of those that follow Islam.

[lemuriavi]

@DreadStorm It's tempting to argue back when people label Islam as a false religion. I just can't deny how fervent I feel to share this complete guidance to humanity, but an invitation remains an invitation.

Only God alone can open our heart to Islam. Saying that, it's probable one day you could be a better muslim than myself, and God forbids, I lose my faith.

All praise belongs to God alone.

[DreadStorm]

@lemuriavi It can't be helped. The evidence speaks for itself. Like Mormons and Catholics, Islam tried to rewrite the scriptures, and in doing so, left far more problems. The one that acts like a brick wall to me, is Sura 4:157. Got does not lie and deceive, that's in the purview if Satan. To claim something that is opposite of all previous scriptures is, in itself, not of God. Countries like Arabia & Somalia (100% Muslim) all show what an Islam world would be like. I just can't accept it.

[lemuriavi]

@DreadStorm If I understand you correctly, what you mean is Allah deceived the people who tried to crucify Isa by taking him up to 'above'? Is that correct?

About Muslim's current situation. There's a lot to be said. I myself have lots to learn about it. Not of why Muslims fail but rather how Muslims could regain their role back. I read a related book on this last night, "Islam at the Crossroads". Try google it if you're interested,available in pdf. It's brief but very well presented.

[DreadStorm]

@lemuriavi I'll definitely look into it.

No, what I refer to is that God would not deceive people into thinking one person was crucified when it was actually another. It's a common belief among Muslims that Judas was crucified in Jesus' place. Now, God will harden someone's heart, allow them to be stubborn, and many other things. But God will certainly not deceive and fake something - no need to. And it is this (among many others) that identifies Islam as a false religion to me.

[lemuriavi]

@DreadStorm Another thing that you need to be honest with yourself is, what's the ultimate reality or truth that might convince you of Islam? You do not need to answer this to me, but rather to yourself. Why are you doing this anyway? Is it because of your sincerity to please God? Would it be better off for you to immerse yourself with what you possess instead of troubling yourself with some alien territory of Islam?

I'm not questioning your sincerity but I think reflection is important.

[DreadStorm]

@lemuriavi Pardon the typo... God*