Part 2 From Islam to Agnosticism, Universalism, Eastern Philosophy (Hinduism, Buddhism)

[truthtrumpshate1]

Orthodox786, I found your videos today. Thank you for posting them. You are a voice of reason and thoughtfulness. I find your philosophies regarding life, and religion refreshing.

 I've read MuslimPerspectives post and whole heartedly disagree with him, your post are rational and consistent.

[MuslimPerspective786]

Well, I think the points in your video are very irrational and full of contradictions. If you could, explain to me what had MADE you to move away from Islam. Because most of the points you had brought up in your videos can be refuted.

[Orthodox786]

@MuslimPerspective786 What led me away from Islam was the doctrine of Hell ... I would love for you to try and demonstrate your claims of "full of contradictions" and "very irrational" ... please do :-) But if you are unable, would you then do yourself the greatest favor and with humility liberate yourself from the bondage of indoctrination?

[NASTYNINETY1]

There is an irony in what you have to say in that while you denounce Christianity and Islam for "exclusivity", what you currently hold to as "the truth" is in fact "exclusive" in itself. Renouncing Islam, I can understand, but rejecting Christianity on this basis only is irresponsible. We can't go before God and present the argument, "I didn't know or you didn't give me enough information!". There is plenty of information available!

[Orthodox786]

@NASTYNINETY1 I would say I have come to the truth that I do not know ... This was the same realization that Socrates had. Sincerely, I do not know what the ultimate reality behind our existence is. I don't think this is an exclusivity claim because I would argue that all of humanity does not know, we only have beliefs relative to our experiences and knowledge.

[00ismaeL001]

Aren't you glad you can listen to music now? In Islam this type of music was considered haram.

[AhmadiyyaChannel]

@00ismaeL001

I hear the musicians carried on playing music as the titanic sank. I small solace as you sink into a meaningless abyss.

[exmuslimNfree]

Keep up the good work. Nice to see another one realizing religion for the lie and silly nonsense that it clearly is. All the best. ExmuslimNfree

[TheAhmadiyyacult]

our brother Farhan has misunderstood hellfire, so let me try and help. Hellfire is the result of taking the decision to cut oneself from God, if you do that you have inflicted pain and suffering on yourself.

[Orthodox786]

@TheAhmadiyyacult the point is that why would God create a system where one could be cut off from Him and the result would be eternal torture. You can try to change how you look at the problem of Hell, but the reality is you cannot take God out of creating this system where this would happen. God could have created Heaven from the beginning and not a system where suffering and torture would be the result.

[xingyimaster1987]

i find it interesting you say anyone who believes in hell has no morality. the question is who are you to define what morality is? it is Allah swt alone who defines morality. unbelief is the worst sin. it is complete rejection of the Creator who has given the person life. It is Allah swt's right that he is worshipped alone. you forget human beings are nothing to the Creator, the Creator can do as he wills. you also forget all someone has to do is say one simple line and they get heaven eternity

[Orthodox786]

@xingyimaster1987 On the same token how can an Abrahamic Theist talk about morality when God tortured people and is the author of all suffering in the world? How can you talk about morality when it seems as if human morality is superior to the Abrahamic God's morality. The argument about the source for morality comes second to the debate about whose morality is superior ... the Abrahamic God or Contemporary Human Ethics?

[sufideceiver]

@Orthodox786, because God is the creator of morality. it is Allah swt who defines what is good and what is bad. and Allah swt has decreed that unbelief is the worst of all sins. because i believe Islam is the truth i submit to what the Creator tells me in the Quran. who says your HUMAN understanding of morality is correct. my point is what humans deem to be moral has changed according to time and place, it is relative. what Allah swt says is fixed as HE swt is the Creator of good and evil.

[Orthodox786]

@sufideceiver That's the precise and classical definition of a tyrannical evil dictator who commands to be worshiped and the failure to do so requires torture. This entity would not be worthy of worship. Your presuppositions about Allah are clearly not allowing you to objectively look at the situation.

[TheAhmadiyyacult]

@Orthodox786

That is where you have misunderstand muslim belief

hellfire is the state a person chooses to enter, you are choosing to cut yourself from God so you enter a infinte destruction.

[00ismaeL001]

@TheAhmadiyyacult Muhammad was asked by one of the companions where both of their fathers were, men who had died before Islam, Muhammad said that both of their fathers were hell.

Now why would people who did not know about Islam be in hell?

[AhmadiyyaChannel]

@00ismaeL001

everyone will be judged based on what they knew and what they didnt, everyone is either going to hell or paradise. life is an enactment of the internal kernel of faith or disbelief.

[sufideceiver]

@Orthodox786, you fail to see the point i am making. you keep repeating yourself. i dont think i would be able to convince you anyway. i look at the Quran while having faith it is the truth, therefore i accept everything in it, and that book defines for me what is good and evil, not you, not any other kafir, not the west. evil is unbelief, which is rejecting the creator and those who reject my Lord swt deserve what they get. that is justice.

[hrantnano]

you born and bathed culturally in your relgion..so what comes out of your mouth is not you speaking..if you were born in another religion..you would blabber about that eligion..

sagacity and lucidity ,is when YOU decide ..not what has been shoved down your throat and twisted your brain....the speaker is brave...to think forr himself..and not be a zombie,like most religious people(jews,christians or muslims)..you have been deprived of yourfreedom  ...this guy has awakened !!!

[farhan00]

When a man first finds himself in pain, his first reaction is to escape it by any means. He defines it as bad purely because he does not like it. But those at a "higher level" do otherwise - They focus on the pain. What is its purpose? What is it causing us to do?

You say hell is disgusting. Why, because its going to hurt? Is that all? So is pleasure good? And if so, you're just pleasure chaser. A modern hedonist, you're not at the cusp of some new stage in spiritual evolution

[Orthodox786]

@farhan00 When you are looking down from heaven at all the people in Hell who are begging you for water in complete agony and moaning and screaming as the Quran describes you Muslims will do ... then I wonder if you would make such a "pleasure is good, pain is bad is not the real issue" argument ... Its not just lil 'ol me who is at the cusp of a new spiritual evolution, its humanity as we know it ...

[TheAhmadiyyacult]

@Orthodox786

??? a spirtual evolution, like i said 'there is no god, and sam harris is his messenger'

why do you athiests feel the need to tag on to religion?

[Ikhwanalsafa]

Subbed!

[Hamza5274]

Watch nouman Ali khan

[Orthodox786]

@Hamza5274 If there is any specific video or book you want me to study, absolutely! Hit me up.

[muslim9x9x]

hello apostate

[Hamza5274]

Watch hamza Andreas tzortzis

[Orthodox786]

@Hamza5274 Hamza, I'm going to send you a video of Hamza Tzortzis crying because he believes his parents are going to be tortured in hell for eternity, and if you walk away inspired instead of disgusted then habibi then you need to check yourself bro.

[TheAhmadiyyacult]

@Orthodox786

everyone makes their own choice, that is the whole point.

[orgolioitalia1]

@Orthodox786 It is good you are in fine state using reason and justify your understanding and hope you will soon back because a good thinking mind will be lead to the truth if one is really honest in his attention.

about your feeling(emotional grief) on Hamza Tzortzis there is a promise recorded about believers in the Quran.

All the praises and thanks be to Allah, Who has removed from us [all] grief.

(Qur'an 35: 34)

[Hamza5274]

Disappointing reasons for leaving Islam, but it is good you are sincere and willing to dialogue inshallah u will revert to Islam

[Orthodox786]

@Hamza5274 If Islam is the ultimate reality behind our existence then I would not want to deprive myself of that. I def do not want to go to hell :-/

[Orthodox786]

@TheAhmadiyyacult, yes I saw hitchens trying to discredit Mother Theresa; there may have been flaws in her attempt to help the poor and sick but she gave her whole life to help the suffering, that's all that matters. I never claimed Hitchens is perfect.

[TheAhmadiyyacult]

@Orthodox786

Hitch not only insulted her he insulted Ghandi too.

[Orthodox786]

@TheAhmadiyyacult Baghwan Sri Rajneesh AKA OSHO also had some really bad things to say about Gandhi ... he also got arrested and deported from the States for bad papers .... but guess what, I think OSHO was an amazing human being and absolutely wise. Its so easy to pick on people for their faults and mistakes; its harder to just look for the positive in people.

[TheAhmadiyyacult]

@Orthodox786

Farhan please go an watch some videos on how Dalits are treated by Brahmins in India, this is all done through the orthodox understanding of hinduism.

I saw a video about them and it made me cry. Dont delude yourself.

By the way if there is no God, then there is no morality or good or evil or virtue

[ahmalala]

You should look into orthodox Christianity. It is ancient Christianity and No belief in a literal place called Hell. A true understanding of the Bible reveals no teaching of a hell.

[Orthodox786]

@ahmalala from the perspective of Universalism I can benefit from the teachings of that religion without belonging to a religion.

[ahmalala]

@Orthodox786 I would agree with that.

[TheAhmadiyyacult]

@ahmalala so if there is no hell

we dont need jesus

win!

[ahmalala]

@TheAhmadiyyacult You need his teachings and to follow him to avoid a path of destruction which can lead to eternal death and to inherit eternal life. So if u say u dont need, u only end up losing.

[TheAhmadiyyacult]

Christopher Hitchens got owned by Willian Craig Lane, I suggest you watch that.

At one point Hitch is trembling in the Q&A. He was an over rated ego maniac who did not stick to a single principle in his life.

and by the way have you heard what he says about your hero mother Terresa?

[Orthodox786]

@TheAhmadiyyacult I actually agree with you and I've said this before too, that Hitchens did lose that debate with William Lane Craig, no doubt. I think Sam Harris beat Dr. Craig though in their debate. But Hitchens did not. Just because he lost a debate does not mean his contributions in general are not thought provoking.

[TheAhmadiyyacult]

@Orthodox786

Well gotta admire your honesty, thats a rare virtue.

[TheAhmadiyyacult]

@Orthodox786

I do think he is thought provoking, but he was over rated and didnt have any consistency in his thought. He couldnt defend athiesm on a serious level at all neither can dawkins. He recomened a lecture by Lawerence Krauss which I watched, only to conclude there is most defintely a God.

[TheAhmadiyyacult]

Oprah Winfrey?

loool

[Orthodox786]

@TheAhmadiyyacult She's amazing! She's done so much charitable work, what's wrong with Oprah?

[TheAhmadiyyacult]

@Orthodox786

dude she is an entertainer

[Orthodox786]

@TheAhmadiyyacult She is, but so is Hamza Yusuf a celebrity in a way, you know? But both Oprah and Hamza Yusuf are genuine human beings too. They have emotions, feelings , desires to help humanity ... we can't take that away from them.

[TheAhmadiyyacult]

@Orthodox786

no there is no comparison, she is an actress and an enertainer, Shaykh Hamza (hafidhuallah) is first and foremost an islamic scholar whether the camera is on him or not. Oprah the entertainer, however, disappears when the camera turns off.

[Orthodox786]

@TheAhmadiyyacult No, she's not just an entertainer, she is a real human being who has helped people on and off television. Just because she's on TV does not mean she is just an entertainer .... I've heard alot of Salafis call Hamza Yusuf among the "scholars for dollars" .... in other words he is a poet ... and entertainer who is benefiting financially from his ability to entertain and fuel people's faith .... like Tele-evangelists .... personally I don not see it that way, I like Hamza Yusuf.

[TheAhmadiyyacult]

@Orthodox786

she does what she does for the camera

shaykh hamza (hafidhuallah) did what he did before and after the camera comes on.

it is salafis who say that comment, its takfiri jihadist.

anyone who listens to shaykh hamza knows he isnt entertaining he is educating.

and as for that hindu cult leader you praised, dude, your really have lost your bearings.

if you cant see how corrupt he was, then you need to re-think 

[Orthodox786]

@TheAhmadiyyacult Hazma Yusuf is amazing bro. Absolutely scholarly, absolutely educating and enlightening, and absolutely entertaining as well. Like I said, many Muslims have made him into a celebrity as they do with any white Muslim they come across. We all know this is the case and there's no need to hide from it. But I disagree with you about Oprah, I think she is an amazing human being. I don't think OSHO was corrupt, he was genuine, wise and he too suffered from issues, as we all do.

[TheAhmadiyyacult]

@Orthodox786

he was incharge of a corrupt cult, very similar to ahmadiyya

how many rolls royce did his brain washed followers buy him?

The Prophet (saw) gave away all the wealth that came to him.

It is sort of funny that all your rationalism and scientific reasoning has led you to....well...er.... hinduism. wow! The shaytan took you the long way round but got you to the same destination. I think I can summarise your belief as 'there is no god, and sam harris is his messenger'

[hrantnano]

at least he thinks for himself.... where as you ...have no sagacity to think for yourself..

you are a follower.... all religious peoiple are in deep sleep,.scared to wake up,and see the nonesense of all religions .

[TheAhmadiyyacult]

@Orthodox786

you are sweet guy! Really like your honesty.

[TheAhmadiyyacult]

Hinduism isnt exclusive?

lol did you read about the caste system? The dalits?

Do you know what hindu women have to do when their husband dies?

dude you really sound confused.

[Orthodox786]

@TheAhmadiyyacult Every Swami I've come across has condemned the caste system. Buddha condemned it, Gandhi condemned it, Vivekanada condemned it, Sri Ramakrishna condemned it etc. the caste system is a failure in the history of Hinduism; but Hinduism does not teach exclusivity at all, it teaches all paths up the mountain will reach the same destination.

[TheAhmadiyyacult]

@Orthodox786

You go tell that to Dalits, in India. Infact Hinduism has a whole code and rituals to deal with lower castes who they believe like disabled people were born that way because of sins in a previous life.

[Orthodox786]

@TheAhmadiyyacult ... Haha I know why the caste system happened, btw, I'm open to the possibility of reincarnation so this was a big issue for me ... Hinduism does not teach that its our duty to inflict more pain on those who are suffering, rather to help them get better so that in their next life they can have it better ... the suffering they are enduring is up to them to beat, but to cause more suffering to life doesn't make sense. They might as well eat meat!

[mrsanity]

The biggest problem with Mohammad is that he had some REALLY unpleasant ideas, and committed some horrific acts.

In my eyes, the good that he did is worth as much as the good that Hitler did...it is totally irrelevant in comparison to his evil.