@nath312 come on now the southern hemisphere teams always beat the north hemisphere teams no matter hu the best centre and back in the world is playin for
He let go of the player thus making the tackle dangerous. Its at the ref's discretion whether to card him or award the penalty. Which he did. Its not "Disgraceful"
Haha I like it how NZ is soooooo good everyone thinks that they cheat xD
We'll be sure if in the unlikely event a Northern Hemisphere team takes the number one spot on the world rankings to label you all a bunch of cheaters shall we?
@steelydanlover lemme guess, you're either a pom or an aussie - either way you can't talk
you can't blame the actions on one player on the entire team. sure, he speared the guy, but you can't call people like Conrad Smith or Mills Muliaina 'cheating bastards'. they are some of the cleanest players in the world. every team has players who 'bend the rules', get over it its just a game
Nah that's the media and fans that do that, plus the food poisoning did happen and people have gone to jail over it, wasn't done by the south African union but it did happen.
a bit of karma for nonu same thing happend to him last year by jaque fourie, but nonu is the man he can take it and dish it back out, it looks like a tackle in rugby 08 lmao
New Zealand is the best team in the world. That's why they are number 1 on the rankings, south Africa played absolutely terrible on the tour with loses to France and 2 club teams.
@UHtiger yes they are a good team but they do cry when south africa beats them for example the 1995 world cup they said south africa gave them food poisoning. and they do alot of dangerous tackles
ya we're 4th in the world for a game thats only the fourth most popular sport here. thats impressive. ye live rugby so naturally number 1 is where ye shud be.
@sunflowery Thats cos you qualify by playing against teams made up of sheep and hobbits, instead of playing proper teams like France and Italy. Im sure you'll get a sound lesson in your place in the world of soccer pretty soon though. And I don't even know you you're playing.
While I agree that the Botha ban was rediculous the fact is he has a long history of discrepancies which no doubt lent some weight to the boards decision.
Jacques Fourie got a 4 week ban for this exact offense on nonu, nonu walked off scott free....thanks IRB for your fantastic consistancy on handing out bans for the same offense
yeah but nothing like Bakkies getting banned for clearing out a British lion who hurt his arm or like Brad Thorn spear tackling John smit out of last years entire tri-nations and getting 1 week or even mat gituea getting nothing for a flying forarm to du preez head this year...buttom line is the consitancy of the IRB is rubbish and I justifyably feel SA is treated harshly when it comes to citing and penalties imposed
Mate I agree with you that the IRB are inconsistent with their calls, but this poor us we always get picked on crap is a bit ott. Smit was dumped on his back, not speared and while it was a bit stupid it's not really the same as Fourie dropping Nonu on his head (although to be fair I think that was unintentional). Fourie didn't even get penalised during the game so it's not like we benefited from it. I can remember a couple Matfield forearms to the face of Carter and Kelleher too - no ban there.
So we agree on the IRB and Bakkies issue.I like to think I'm an impartial and fair observer of the game, so if a player deserves banning he deserves banning.Take a objective look at citings and non citigns for that matter i.e gituea on fourie in this years tr-nations - and compare the bans imposed on SA players in comparison to other teams I feel ours are harsher? The remedy therefore going forward from a IRB perspective would be to surely introduce a minimum sentance for a specified offence?!
There are already guideline minimum sentences in place, but there are a variety of factors that usually determine the punishment. As UHtiger says below, a player's history is taken into account as well as their perceived intentions.
Eye gouging punishments, for example, have a lower end of 12 weeks and top end of 24+ weeks depending on whether they think you did it on purpose etc. Burger, despite all his past history, got 8 weeks - so no I don't think you are always treated harshly.
I am aware of that - the case in point is whats illustrated by this very clip on you tube i.e nonu got off scott free - fourie got banned and after watching both replays these 2 incidents almost mirror each other - if a player commits a citable offence there must a mininum sentance regardless - Bakkies should never have been banned for "that" incident, that does not mean I think he is an angel but how many forward rugby players are?
As you mentioned Burger - lets just say I feel his ban was justified and I by no means condone eye gouging, however, it was the 1st few minutes of the game where u try intimidate/rattle your opponents...he was found not guilty of eye gouging but was found quilty of 'making contact in the eye area'...call that stupid or what you like but he was banned and I was glad for it - but if you watch the replays he is not looking nor intentionally aiming his fingers at the eye area
The offense is actually worded "contact with eye or eye area" so I assume the lower end is for unintentional and the top end is for deliberate gouging. In any case, someone has to decide whether they think it's intentional or not and not everyone is going to agree with that. Many people thought it was deliberate and even if it wasn't, his ban was still four weeks short of what it should have been (according to the IRB's own guidelines).
ok - so after all of this we are in agreement with what was initially said in that the IRB are clueless and there are inconsistancies in there findings and punishments
Well this tackle was 4 years ago and he was cited but cleared, so I guess they thought it was unintentional. This was the same year that Umaga and Mealamu also were cleared of spear tackling and D'Arcy wasn't even cited for his spear tackle on Tipoki, so I think things have changed a bit since then.
Meancrib. You really need to find the true meaning of Irish Rugby. Don't worry about NZ rugby. We're fine . . . we're our own worse critics . . . but we love the ABs win, lose or draw . . . and we love rugby. But you really sound like a fat guy trying to give someone a few healthy eating tips. Get real. Go hard for Ireland. BELIEVE in your team like we do!
Sheesh if we arranged the world according to Meancrib's philosophy, then shades of Hitler. All the brownies in one corner, blackies in another, whiteys in another etc. No immigating allowed but if you do then you can't be a citizen of that nation. Plus if your kids are born and raised there then they can't love, represent and die for that nation. Thus, you must always belong to wherever it was your ancestors first came from FOREVER. No wonder I say 'grow up' and propose the word 'ignorance'.
Quote - "Grow up Meancrib. that's like saying Tiger Woods isn't an American. NZ's not a branchof the UK we're in the PACIFIC. Over 250,000 Islanders live in Auckland alone. Lome and Earl born in NZ but never made the ABs. Tana born NZ. Mils came when aged 2. Ice and Casey came as kids. All developed rugby skills as Kiwi kids growing up . . . " - unquote. Not sure how bringing in an unborn Tana Umaga or a two year old Mils is same as what Chelsea does? Or am I missing something? Ignorance maybe?
Asked and answered on another page Meancrib. Your flawed argument is already blown out of the water so you find another page and post the same bullshit. Tells me you're not interested in a rational debate, rather you're looking for a forum to feed your low self esteem. I'll copy my answer to you on to this page as well. Plus, release your grip . . . (we both know what you're gripping don't we . . . )
so what is the true meaning of new zealand rugby? mils muliaina, isaia toeava, casey laulala all born in samoa, tana umaga, earl va'a ,lome fa'atau all their parents are from samaoa, u guys are like chelsea football team bringing in players giving them contracts when it suits, get a grip
NZ is a country people immigrate to, especially Islanders. They didn't get brought in, their parents moved in when they weren't even school age. They grew up in NZ and got the benefit of NZ coaching and development. Therefore they're the product of NZ rugby. In fact most of the Samoan and Tongan teams are born in NZ, but get poached. So this is not only a bullshit myth, but also hypocrisy.
It never ceases to amaze me how many people fail to grasp the concept of immigration. If Kiwis of pacific island descent who were either born in or lived nearly their whole lives in NZ are not considered to be NZers, then what about all the white Kiwis? Are they also not NZers? I mean their families did all migrate from Britain, Ireland, France, Germany, Croatia etc. etc.
By the way, Va'a and Fa'atau were both born and raised in NZ but played for Samoa, so your theory is a bit flawed.
NZ rugby players of Irish descent. John Kirwan, Sean Fitzpatrick, Byron Kelleher, Craig Dowd, Jimmy Cowan, John Gallagher etc. Some pretty good players amongst that lot.
The whole NZ rugby team, i had respect for, but for what the did to O'Driscoll, and in this clip here, is such as disgrace to the game. You know what your doing in that situation, and you never spear tackle. Bloody disgrace to their country, and to the world of Rugby, and human decency
Oh, and I would sort out your self esteem issues if I were you. Do you approach the ladies with a line prepared for when they blank or dismiss you like the way you put words in my mouth about sheep shagging? Charming self-deprecation sometimes works but that just shouts out "TRAMPLE ON MY LOW SELF ESTEEM PLEASE". While you're at it sort out your bitterness and your propensity for ill-informed judgements - that's not attractive either. You'll thank me for it one day boyo...
LOL, I think by the desperate attempt at condescending tone it's pretty clear cut who's the one with the self esteem problem. I'm a bit surprised you didn't come back and delete this embarrassing outburst.
P.S. do they still make the clinic and fair city with Ireland's economic woes?
Ireland has a long history of travel and immigration, Ryanair was even founded here so we have hundreds of European cities on our doorstep for a few quid on any given weekend. Likewise, many people love visiting Dublin or coming here to live because of the cosmopolitan nature of the city and the open-mindedness of the Irish. I'm not quite sure how you formed the idea that we are bigoted and insular. You seem bitter about something - did a handsome Irish lad run off with your girlfriend?
Well no quite the contrary, I've run off with a few slag Irish lasses.
As for immigration, don't you mean DIASPORA? Country being such a miserable shithole people went to all end of the earth to escape?
Ryanair? HAHAHA you're joking me. That's a crap airline! I'd keep quiet about that one.
As for Dublin, I've actually been there! it's quite nice, but it's not as great as London (and just as expensive). But overall I've found you guys backward, insular, bigoted, racist and narrow-minded. Sorry
not really sure what all u've said has to do with nonu speartackle
u're one of these dudes who go on youtube just to start arguments arent u?
seems ironic u're talking bout irish people being rascist when u've come out with every irish stereotype under the sun, wanna throw something in bout guinness or lepruchans or i.r.a blowing up supermarkets in manchester while u're at it?
and for fuck sake stop using lol, where the fuck r u? the OC or something?
How about you take a look at this entire thread and any All Black videos. Especially ones featuring Tana Umaga.
What do we see? hmm? oh! Arsewipe Irish people spamming them with the most appalling vitriol and racism. And not just against the players or the team, but against the whole country. There's a few English too, but the majority are from this much smaller neighbour with a much smaller population.
But of course most Irish turn a blind eye to it when it's from their own.
it aint my fault if some people r scumbag rascists, there r rascists in ireland as there is everywhere
what ur doing is just as bad, being xenophobic against irish people and generalizing all of irish as rascists
havent seen it but if any people made rascist comments bout umaga, there just scumbag assholes, i cant represent or answer for them, dont generalise, it's as bad as rasicm
Then I got my profile spammed with insults and nasty PM's (including a death threat).
So fugg it. I'm going to dish it back and annoy the sensitive shoulder-chipped pieces of waste who started it. Either grow a thicker skin or don't read it, 'cause I ain't letting up.
As for criticising the All Blacks, you should expect this whenever you go through a rare poor spell - it's called banter and every country gets the digs when they're playing crap. Most people however react in a witty and dignified way as opposed to going on the offensive... I didn't insult your Mother ffs!
LOL I would hardly describe the vile, nasty, bigoted vitriol your countrymen consistently throw at NZ posters on Rugby Videos as banter. And that's not including the thinly veiled shadenfraude at any AB failing.
Just take a look for yourself, you'll be embarrassed.
Sure they've signed up for some dud roles to help their careers but most people know them for their fantastic performances in many clever films. If you were implying that we use these two shining lights as a means to "one-up" on the likes of NZ's Hollywood achievements then you can add the following to the list: Pierce Brosnan, Gabreil Byrne, Daniel Day-Lewis, Brendan Gleeson, Cillian Murphy, Jonathan Rhys Meyers, Dylan Moran, Stuart townsend, Peter O'Toole, Richard Harris, Cyril Cusack...
I still haven't read all the posts in this argument, but anyway, insulting us for our lack of A-list actors? I don't know a single NZ actor. And saying Irish people are shit at everything when the only two New Zealanders I know of (besides rugby players) are Edmund Hillary and Peter Jackson? Jesus Christ. I mean if I was going to insult someone,I wouldn't use an argument that just insults me even more.Not that I think there's anything wrong with having few famous people in one's country.
For the record you were the one spouting crap about the Irish being ugly, pasty, potato heads etc. I was merely making it clear that our people are highly regarded on an international level in the looks department as well as for artistic merit. Our disproportionatley high rate of infiltration in Hollywood was used as an example of this. As for dismissing the achievements of Farrell and Neeson as contrbuting to "low-brow" entertainment, that just strikes me as bitter.
"our people are highly regarded on an international level in the looks department as well as for artistic merit. Our disproportionatley high rate of infiltration in Hollywood was used as an example of this."
Not really, you've just had some Hollywood hacks. The yanks have a stiffy for anything Irish. You're hardly alone in that department.
"that just strikes me as bitter"
LOL if you say so. Not quite sure how you come to that conclusion.
Truwkiwijoker....Sheep shagging?? Were you trying to pre-empt such comments with your awesome powers of mind reading? I didn't mention a word about sheep shagging. That smacks of an inferiority complex to be honest - you should probably see somebody about it. Then again, if you choose to take offense at comments by idiotic ten year olds then that is your prerogative.
"Truwkiwijoker....Sheep shagging?? Were you trying to pre-empt such comments with your awesome powers of mind reading? I didn't mention a word about sheep shagging."
You might not but every other Irishman seems to. So puerile...
"That smacks of an inferiority complex to be honest - you should probably see somebody about it."
What like every one of your desperate sounding responses?
"idiotic ten year olds"
They're all at least 18.
Please learn the proper definition or prerogative.
nonu should have snapped his neck...it wouldnt affect the way you's play rugby anyway...it's not like you's would be any worse...or inbred looking...or dumb
TruekiwiJOKE I've left you a string of replies on this video since you seem to have banned me from commenting on your profile rather than wait to be inevitably outwitted. Do you always censor people when you realise that they're more intelligent? Add that to the cart of self esteem issues that I have referred to below. Read from the bottom up. I feel that I have nailed a few home truths that may be hard to swallow. Be brave son...
Oh dear Splendidchap you're resorting to telling fibs. Tut tut.
Now why would I single you out for blocking from my profile when anyone can see it covered far nastier messages from your oh so decent and cool countrymen? If I didn't block them or delete their messages then its pretty clear it doesn't bother me and I wouldn't block you.
I think another, more logical conclusion might be drawn to who's more intelligent and who's been outwitted boyo [headpat].
Yeah you're right it is pretty good. Not quite sure why you're mentioning the fact NZ has more sheep than people though. We've also got more cows than people too.
Australia, South Africa, Iran, Sudan, Morocco. Ireland until recently had more sheep than people too. But don't fret I'm pretty sure you've still got more potatoes than people.
Wouldnt expect any less from the NZ Scum. No place on a Rugby pitch. Well bring a few travelers down next time and he can fight them to his hearts content.
the funny thing is theres a vid on youtube showing darcy spear tackling rua tipoki without the ball and all the comments from people in the uk are saying it was a good tackle. you irish need to take a table spoon of cement and harden the fuck up, its a physical game, no1 goes out to injure people this shit just happens.
Well i just searched for this darcy spear tackle and found nothing.
Harden the Fuck up. Using your logic we should abandon all reason. Nobody would play if you had a strong chance braking your neck or dislocating your shoulder in every game. Dont be Stupid. So you are saying this is a perfectly fine tackle and should be part of every day rugby?
The rules are there so we can see our favorite player week after week not once every six months.
you couldnt find it because it wasnt put up by itself, its just in a highlights package of the game between the lions and the nz maori. and of course i think its a dangerous tackle but like i said he hasnt set out to injure him, its an accident that happens in a physical game simple as that.
just found a vid of the tackle im talking about."Darcy accidentally spears Tipoki". i take it back the comments arnt that it wasnt a bad tackle, the main comment is that it was an accident and how darcy is such a nice and clean player.
im not a sore loser i know nz are much better than ireland. but u cant just go round dropping people on there heads. like the lions tour in 05 b o d got taken out, nothing happens to any nz player. last week a lions player gets band for fuck all, its bullshit
your all idiots, go on a pitch and let some anger out with some rugby. but don't do it here, its not going anywhere, NZ spear tackled a few times but there not as dirty as some teams, play the rules or don't play at all.
Rua Tipoki got spear tackled on that tour also, Geordan Murphy laid one on someone during the Taranaki game.
No Kiwis complained about either because we didn't have the "Prince of Darkness" along as our media advisor, desperately trying to come up with an excuse to rationalise how they were absolutely thrashed in every game.
You Irish are such biased hystrionic moaners. I can't even take you seriously.
It's bad enough you moan and boohoo and make a federal case about anything that doesn't go your way, but it's disgusting you make it an issue of nationality and have to run down everything about my country.
Tana and the All Blacks are NOT especially dirty. Not as dirty as France, England, or South Africa.
Your behaviour is reminiscent of your rugby team, LOSERS. Finally after 61 years you win, yeah crow away...
Theres an awful lot of shite talk goin on here now!!whos good an whos shit...first off New Zealand are ranked number 1,pound for pound probably better then any team,an the stats agree with me...However if you cant produce the goods when it matters there has to be something wrong..That is the bottom line of this arguement,look at the fuckin stats stats stats stats...an then tell me who is ranked number one!!!...Declan kidney for president
It actually looks like the Irish player jumps, I don't think he meant to spear him at all, I agree with blind, Nonu hardly touched him. Lucky turnout for Ireland really because the guy who passed the ball would of been penalised for shepherding
Agreed that nonus spear tackle in itself wasnt life threatening at all, but the act can produce horrific consequences i know of a boy who is whealchair bound thanks to a spear
well if they wanted to own him they could have pulled down his shorts or something, that would have been way more fun, and besides i don't your best mates are spearing you with the intentions of breaking your neck (if they ever have at all) these guys clearly are
it's nothing to do with hardness, i think its the common courtesy of not trying to break someones neck when you could taken them out cleanly and more effectively, the sport is dangerous enough as it is
Bokke gaan hom bliksem volgende jaar. Hy ken vir Jaques Fourie*
fnju89 2 months ago
@mRDoDDo1 i'll bet this comment seems a bit funny looking back now huh?
CalluW 2 months ago
new zealand are in the top 3 of dirtiest teams, absolute shite
jinksy2468 4 months ago
Smash or be smashed
sambof78 4 months ago
u lift a player in the air u have to guide him donw not slam him
TheCelticmaori 7 months ago
NZ U-18 team would have still beaten Ireland that day
187prettyboy 8 months ago
i cant believe tat scumbag whomaga did it again!!
XxPADDYBOYNIGGAxX 9 months ago
@XxPADDYBOYNIGGAxX Are you fucking stupid? Or just illiterate?
nath312 8 months ago
@nath312 did it on purpose to try mean that umaga is a nobody compared to bod
XxPADDYBOYNIGGAxX 8 months ago
@XxPADDYBOYNIGGAxX Yeah.. sure. If BOD was such a great player, why were his team losing 31-0 at this point..
nath312 8 months ago
@nath312 come on now the southern hemisphere teams always beat the north hemisphere teams no matter hu the best centre and back in the world is playin for
XxPADDYBOYNIGGAxX 8 months ago
@XxPADDYBOYNIGGAxX France vs Australia, England vs Australia, South Africa vs Saracens.
nath312 8 months ago
@nath312 k i didnt mean every match but in general soutern hemisphere teams are better
XxPADDYBOYNIGGAxX 8 months ago
@nath312 because the team is more than just one player?
Aristox116 8 months ago
@Aristox116 But 31-0.. If he's such a great player surely the team he played for wouldn't lose 31-0 regardless of the opposition.
nath312 8 months ago
@nath312
BOD wasn't playing that day. He was recovering from the shoulder injury he got on the Lions tour.
johnnytanini 6 months ago
@johnnytanini things like THIS is the reason bryan o'driscoll wasnt playing that day.
MrLakproductions 4 months ago
He let go of the player thus making the tackle dangerous. Its at the ref's discretion whether to card him or award the penalty. Which he did. Its not "Disgraceful"
craiclord 9 months ago
That is disgraceful from maa nonu he should get a yellow card at least
TheLittlelewis1999 9 months ago
nothing much wrong with that.
liamrokocoko 9 months ago
If someone is strong enough to spear you and your stupid enough to run into this person then shouldn't you be punished for your stupidity?! :D
EdwardAlexanderSmall 9 months ago
Even with Nonu off NZ still won.....what a team!! GO ALL BLACKS!!
zxsaful 1 year ago
Nice one nonu.....
zxsaful 1 year ago
Check Irish No.12's pants when Nonu snaps.
nickojb7 1 year ago
@nickojb7 irish no.12 threw a left hook. lol
Nikon05 1 year ago
@Nikon05 haha yea a slow-motion left hook, is the irish number 12 Shane Horgan? He's a quality player
nickojb7 1 year ago
@nickojb7 yup, thats horgan. yea hes a good enuf player. big lad
Nikon05 1 year ago
Haha I like it how NZ is soooooo good everyone thinks that they cheat xD
We'll be sure if in the unlikely event a Northern Hemisphere team takes the number one spot on the world rankings to label you all a bunch of cheaters shall we?
Go have a cry.
KaosKorporal 1 year ago
kiwi's you are a load of cheating bastards
steelydanlover 1 year ago
@steelydanlover lemme guess, you're either a pom or an aussie - either way you can't talk
you can't blame the actions on one player on the entire team. sure, he speared the guy, but you can't call people like Conrad Smith or Mills Muliaina 'cheating bastards'. they are some of the cleanest players in the world. every team has players who 'bend the rules', get over it its just a game
CalluW 1 year ago
@steelydanlover would you like some tissue's mate??
schmoonzx 1 year ago
Nah that's the media and fans that do that, plus the food poisoning did happen and people have gone to jail over it, wasn't done by the south African union but it did happen.
UHtiger 1 year ago
@UHtiger upper hutt sucks...only good thing about it is st pats
DancingMedicineMan 1 year ago
@DancingMedicineMan You can think what you want, even though I live in oz now it'll always be home to me. St pats is shit.
UHtiger 1 year ago
a bit of karma for nonu same thing happend to him last year by jaque fourie, but nonu is the man he can take it and dish it back out, it looks like a tackle in rugby 08 lmao
kaino1990 1 year ago
Ma Nonu took that bastard ;)
tutuidiot 2 years ago
@tutuidiot illegally = yes ,, scumishly = yes, dirty = yes, haa some great player he is getting yellow cards like that this often!
rugbyisthegreatest1 1 year ago
uhm meancrib when did earl va'a and lome fa'atua ever play for the all blacks?
liltank90 2 years ago
im irish nd der was nuthin realy in dat jus a penalty
harefavourites 2 years ago 7
@harefavourites your forgetting the yelloww card part mate!!
rugbyisthegreatest1 1 year ago
@harefavourites obviusly dnt know a lot bout rugby thn do u
sdhsean 7 months ago
@harefavourites
Nah mate, in the laws of rugby that's a yellow bordering on a red.
chickenfillets74 7 months ago 4
@chickenfillets74 not unless he'd forced him down...this is Nonu we're talking about...in his world he just gave him a tap!
alternativebassist 6 months ago
New Zealand is the best team in the world. That's why they are number 1 on the rankings, south Africa played absolutely terrible on the tour with loses to France and 2 club teams.
UHtiger 2 years ago 6
and ireland. woo!
GoldenbanjoDJ 2 years ago
@UHtiger and Ireland.
ZZKe7 1 year ago
@UHtiger yes they are a good team but they do cry when south africa beats them for example the 1995 world cup they said south africa gave them food poisoning. and they do alot of dangerous tackles
rugbyfan33 1 year ago
@UHtiger true damnn true lets see how they gna do it in 2011 hpe they wil get pooled wth hardcore teams ths teyme, nt usa or fiji or namibia
madscientistify 1 year ago
COP A BIT OF THAT SKILL IRISH BOYS
DanielCarterLover10 2 years ago
i suppose the irish will winge bout this for the next 6 years like everyone did in the lions tour of nz. wah wah wah useless fukers stick to soccer
liltank90 2 years ago
funny that they just beat SA aka best team in the world and have the best record of 2009...ohh forgot that one didnt we?
StandardZealot 2 years ago
we're crap at soccer. but we're 4th in the world for rugby
GoldenbanjoDJ 2 years ago
4th hahahaha were 1st, hurry up n cum along june it gonna be the test of the year
liltank90 2 years ago
@liltank90
ya we're 4th in the world for a game thats only the fourth most popular sport here. thats impressive. ye live rugby so naturally number 1 is where ye shud be.
mustainerulesxx 2 years ago
Comment removed
akachris1 2 years ago
@liltank90 hehehe they can't even play soccer mate, not to mention NZ is going to the Soccer World Cup next year oops . . . I just mentioned it lol.
sunflowery 2 years ago
@sunflowery Thats cos you qualify by playing against teams made up of sheep and hobbits, instead of playing proper teams like France and Italy. Im sure you'll get a sound lesson in your place in the world of soccer pretty soon though. And I don't even know you you're playing.
ZZKe7 1 year ago
@ZZKe7 haha you sound jealous my friend. See you at soccer world cup then - NOT! LOL!
sunflowery 1 year ago
@sunflowery lol
killernaval 1 year ago
@sunflowery we were cheated out of not getting in to the world cup!! so we should have been there!
rugbyisthegreatest1 1 year ago
left shoulder and everything, Nonu is a unit.
RobbieKessell 2 years ago 2
Like I said a few weeks ago - IRB bunch of old fart wankers.
sunflowery 2 years ago
While I agree that the Botha ban was rediculous the fact is he has a long history of discrepancies which no doubt lent some weight to the boards decision.
UHtiger 2 years ago
That isnt a spear tackle! AND THATS FUCKING BANG OUTA ORDER!
xBIGDOYLEx 2 years ago
YEAH! GET RAPED D'ARCY!
vivobene 2 years ago
nonu is unstoppable
buncharebels 2 years ago 2
IRB bunch of old fart wankers!
sunflowery 2 years ago
Jacques Fourie got a 4 week ban for this exact offense on nonu, nonu walked off scott free....thanks IRB for your fantastic consistancy on handing out bans for the same offense
SeanDobby 2 years ago
Kind of like Burger getting 8 weeks for eye gouging and Hartley getting 26 weeks.
The conclusion - the IRB are on a planet all of their own.
KiwiNJ 2 years ago
yeah but nothing like Bakkies getting banned for clearing out a British lion who hurt his arm or like Brad Thorn spear tackling John smit out of last years entire tri-nations and getting 1 week or even mat gituea getting nothing for a flying forarm to du preez head this year...buttom line is the consitancy of the IRB is rubbish and I justifyably feel SA is treated harshly when it comes to citing and penalties imposed
SeanDobby 2 years ago
Mate I agree with you that the IRB are inconsistent with their calls, but this poor us we always get picked on crap is a bit ott. Smit was dumped on his back, not speared and while it was a bit stupid it's not really the same as Fourie dropping Nonu on his head (although to be fair I think that was unintentional). Fourie didn't even get penalised during the game so it's not like we benefited from it. I can remember a couple Matfield forearms to the face of Carter and Kelleher too - no ban there.
KiwiNJ 2 years ago
Bakkies however, I'm at a complete loss. I think someone just doesn't like him because that made no sense at all.
KiwiNJ 2 years ago
So we agree on the IRB and Bakkies issue.I like to think I'm an impartial and fair observer of the game, so if a player deserves banning he deserves banning.Take a objective look at citings and non citigns for that matter i.e gituea on fourie in this years tr-nations - and compare the bans imposed on SA players in comparison to other teams I feel ours are harsher? The remedy therefore going forward from a IRB perspective would be to surely introduce a minimum sentance for a specified offence?!
SeanDobby 2 years ago
There are already guideline minimum sentences in place, but there are a variety of factors that usually determine the punishment. As UHtiger says below, a player's history is taken into account as well as their perceived intentions.
Eye gouging punishments, for example, have a lower end of 12 weeks and top end of 24+ weeks depending on whether they think you did it on purpose etc. Burger, despite all his past history, got 8 weeks - so no I don't think you are always treated harshly.
KiwiNJ 2 years ago
I am aware of that - the case in point is whats illustrated by this very clip on you tube i.e nonu got off scott free - fourie got banned and after watching both replays these 2 incidents almost mirror each other - if a player commits a citable offence there must a mininum sentance regardless - Bakkies should never have been banned for "that" incident, that does not mean I think he is an angel but how many forward rugby players are?
SeanDobby 2 years ago
As you mentioned Burger - lets just say I feel his ban was justified and I by no means condone eye gouging, however, it was the 1st few minutes of the game where u try intimidate/rattle your opponents...he was found not guilty of eye gouging but was found quilty of 'making contact in the eye area'...call that stupid or what you like but he was banned and I was glad for it - but if you watch the replays he is not looking nor intentionally aiming his fingers at the eye area
SeanDobby 2 years ago
The offense is actually worded "contact with eye or eye area" so I assume the lower end is for unintentional and the top end is for deliberate gouging. In any case, someone has to decide whether they think it's intentional or not and not everyone is going to agree with that. Many people thought it was deliberate and even if it wasn't, his ban was still four weeks short of what it should have been (according to the IRB's own guidelines).
KiwiNJ 2 years ago
ok - so after all of this we are in agreement with what was initially said in that the IRB are clueless and there are inconsistancies in there findings and punishments
SeanDobby 2 years ago
Yeah mate, that's about right.
KiwiNJ 2 years ago
Well this tackle was 4 years ago and he was cited but cleared, so I guess they thought it was unintentional. This was the same year that Umaga and Mealamu also were cleared of spear tackling and D'Arcy wasn't even cited for his spear tackle on Tipoki, so I think things have changed a bit since then.
KiwiNJ 2 years ago
Amazing
sunflowery 2 years ago
Great comment.
sunflowery 2 years ago
what a dick.
kefster00 2 years ago
Meancrib. You really need to find the true meaning of Irish Rugby. Don't worry about NZ rugby. We're fine . . . we're our own worse critics . . . but we love the ABs win, lose or draw . . . and we love rugby. But you really sound like a fat guy trying to give someone a few healthy eating tips. Get real. Go hard for Ireland. BELIEVE in your team like we do!
sunflowery 2 years ago
truly said.
JermainesAccount 2 years ago
As for this tackle by Ma'a Nonu (yes, he was BORN IN NZ, grew up in NZ, represents NZ, loves NZ and will die for NZ), not a good look!
sunflowery 2 years ago
Sheesh if we arranged the world according to Meancrib's philosophy, then shades of Hitler. All the brownies in one corner, blackies in another, whiteys in another etc. No immigating allowed but if you do then you can't be a citizen of that nation. Plus if your kids are born and raised there then they can't love, represent and die for that nation. Thus, you must always belong to wherever it was your ancestors first came from FOREVER. No wonder I say 'grow up' and propose the word 'ignorance'.
sunflowery 2 years ago
Quote - "Grow up Meancrib. that's like saying Tiger Woods isn't an American. NZ's not a branchof the UK we're in the PACIFIC. Over 250,000 Islanders live in Auckland alone. Lome and Earl born in NZ but never made the ABs. Tana born NZ. Mils came when aged 2. Ice and Casey came as kids. All developed rugby skills as Kiwi kids growing up . . . " - unquote. Not sure how bringing in an unborn Tana Umaga or a two year old Mils is same as what Chelsea does? Or am I missing something? Ignorance maybe?
sunflowery 2 years ago
Asked and answered on another page Meancrib. Your flawed argument is already blown out of the water so you find another page and post the same bullshit. Tells me you're not interested in a rational debate, rather you're looking for a forum to feed your low self esteem. I'll copy my answer to you on to this page as well. Plus, release your grip . . . (we both know what you're gripping don't we . . . )
sunflowery 2 years ago
so what is the true meaning of new zealand rugby? mils muliaina, isaia toeava, casey laulala all born in samoa, tana umaga, earl va'a ,lome fa'atau all their parents are from samaoa, u guys are like chelsea football team bringing in players giving them contracts when it suits, get a grip
meancrib 2 years ago
You're only making yourself look stupid meancrib.
NZ is a country people immigrate to, especially Islanders. They didn't get brought in, their parents moved in when they weren't even school age. They grew up in NZ and got the benefit of NZ coaching and development. Therefore they're the product of NZ rugby. In fact most of the Samoan and Tongan teams are born in NZ, but get poached. So this is not only a bullshit myth, but also hypocrisy.
truekiwijoker 2 years ago
It never ceases to amaze me how many people fail to grasp the concept of immigration. If Kiwis of pacific island descent who were either born in or lived nearly their whole lives in NZ are not considered to be NZers, then what about all the white Kiwis? Are they also not NZers? I mean their families did all migrate from Britain, Ireland, France, Germany, Croatia etc. etc.
By the way, Va'a and Fa'atau were both born and raised in NZ but played for Samoa, so your theory is a bit flawed.
KiwiNJ 2 years ago
Irish number 12 might of needed a change of pants after trying to be the tough guy! ha ha
nickojb7 2 years ago
NZ vs Ireland argument?
NZ rugby players of Irish descent. John Kirwan, Sean Fitzpatrick, Byron Kelleher, Craig Dowd, Jimmy Cowan, John Gallagher etc. Some pretty good players amongst that lot.
johnnytanini 2 years ago
The whole NZ rugby team, i had respect for, but for what the did to O'Driscoll, and in this clip here, is such as disgrace to the game. You know what your doing in that situation, and you never spear tackle. Bloody disgrace to their country, and to the world of Rugby, and human decency
DrackyA 2 years ago
ma nonu is a disgrace for rugby and its traditions
teteban89 2 years ago
fuck of ma nonu is a bloodey legend go the allblacks.
SONNYbillA3 2 years ago
Oh, and you're welcome.
splendidchap84 2 years ago
Oh, and I would sort out your self esteem issues if I were you. Do you approach the ladies with a line prepared for when they blank or dismiss you like the way you put words in my mouth about sheep shagging? Charming self-deprecation sometimes works but that just shouts out "TRAMPLE ON MY LOW SELF ESTEEM PLEASE". While you're at it sort out your bitterness and your propensity for ill-informed judgements - that's not attractive either. You'll thank me for it one day boyo...
splendidchap84 2 years ago
LOL, I think by the desperate attempt at condescending tone it's pretty clear cut who's the one with the self esteem problem. I'm a bit surprised you didn't come back and delete this embarrassing outburst.
P.S. do they still make the clinic and fair city with Ireland's economic woes?
truekiwijoker 2 years ago
I haven't read all the comments in this argument, but you come across as a real dickhead.
marvellousmadser 2 years ago
Comment removed
PonchusMcMuffin 2 years ago
Being told I sound like a real dickhead by an Irish person is like a LADA driver laughing at my car.
Ooh-ar begorrah!
truekiwijoker 2 years ago
Ireland has a long history of travel and immigration, Ryanair was even founded here so we have hundreds of European cities on our doorstep for a few quid on any given weekend. Likewise, many people love visiting Dublin or coming here to live because of the cosmopolitan nature of the city and the open-mindedness of the Irish. I'm not quite sure how you formed the idea that we are bigoted and insular. You seem bitter about something - did a handsome Irish lad run off with your girlfriend?
splendidchap84 2 years ago
Well no quite the contrary, I've run off with a few slag Irish lasses.
As for immigration, don't you mean DIASPORA? Country being such a miserable shithole people went to all end of the earth to escape?
Ryanair? HAHAHA you're joking me. That's a crap airline! I'd keep quiet about that one.
As for Dublin, I've actually been there! it's quite nice, but it's not as great as London (and just as expensive). But overall I've found you guys backward, insular, bigoted, racist and narrow-minded. Sorry
truekiwijoker 2 years ago
not really sure what all u've said has to do with nonu speartackle
u're one of these dudes who go on youtube just to start arguments arent u?
seems ironic u're talking bout irish people being rascist when u've come out with every irish stereotype under the sun, wanna throw something in bout guinness or lepruchans or i.r.a blowing up supermarkets in manchester while u're at it?
and for fuck sake stop using lol, where the fuck r u? the OC or something?
gorgorothpa 2 years ago
Hey gorgorothpa,
How about you take a look at this entire thread and any All Black videos. Especially ones featuring Tana Umaga.
What do we see? hmm? oh! Arsewipe Irish people spamming them with the most appalling vitriol and racism. And not just against the players or the team, but against the whole country. There's a few English too, but the majority are from this much smaller neighbour with a much smaller population.
But of course most Irish turn a blind eye to it when it's from their own.
truekiwijoker 2 years ago
it aint my fault if some people r scumbag rascists, there r rascists in ireland as there is everywhere
what ur doing is just as bad, being xenophobic against irish people and generalizing all of irish as rascists
havent seen it but if any people made rascist comments bout umaga, there just scumbag assholes, i cant represent or answer for them, dont generalise, it's as bad as rasicm
gorgorothpa 2 years ago
Well at first I let it go.
Then I bummed them out with facts and logic.
Then I got my profile spammed with insults and nasty PM's (including a death threat).
So fugg it. I'm going to dish it back and annoy the sensitive shoulder-chipped pieces of waste who started it. Either grow a thicker skin or don't read it, 'cause I ain't letting up.
truekiwijoker 2 years ago
As for criticising the All Blacks, you should expect this whenever you go through a rare poor spell - it's called banter and every country gets the digs when they're playing crap. Most people however react in a witty and dignified way as opposed to going on the offensive... I didn't insult your Mother ffs!
splendidchap84 2 years ago
LOL I would hardly describe the vile, nasty, bigoted vitriol your countrymen consistently throw at NZ posters on Rugby Videos as banter. And that's not including the thinly veiled shadenfraude at any AB failing.
Just take a look for yourself, you'll be embarrassed.
truekiwijoker 2 years ago
Sure they've signed up for some dud roles to help their careers but most people know them for their fantastic performances in many clever films. If you were implying that we use these two shining lights as a means to "one-up" on the likes of NZ's Hollywood achievements then you can add the following to the list: Pierce Brosnan, Gabreil Byrne, Daniel Day-Lewis, Brendan Gleeson, Cillian Murphy, Jonathan Rhys Meyers, Dylan Moran, Stuart townsend, Peter O'Toole, Richard Harris, Cyril Cusack...
splendidchap84 2 years ago
"fantastic performances in many clever films."
Such as?
"Pierce Brosnan, Peter O'Toole"
LOL, they're both jokes.
Gabreil Byrne, Brendan Gleeson, Cillian Murphy, Jonathan Rhys Meyers, Dylan Moran, Stuart townsend, Richard Harris, Cyril Cusack"
LOL Who?
Actually I've heard of Moran, Murphy and Byrne but most people haven't.
"Daniel Day-Lewis"
Is he any bigger than Sam Neil?
truekiwijoker 2 years ago
I still haven't read all the posts in this argument, but anyway, insulting us for our lack of A-list actors? I don't know a single NZ actor. And saying Irish people are shit at everything when the only two New Zealanders I know of (besides rugby players) are Edmund Hillary and Peter Jackson? Jesus Christ. I mean if I was going to insult someone,I wouldn't use an argument that just insults me even more.Not that I think there's anything wrong with having few famous people in one's country.
marvellousmadser 2 years ago
Actually splendidchap brought up the Hollywood actor nonsense.
Thanks for admitting you've never heard of Russel Crowe...
truekiwijoker 2 years ago
For the record you were the one spouting crap about the Irish being ugly, pasty, potato heads etc. I was merely making it clear that our people are highly regarded on an international level in the looks department as well as for artistic merit. Our disproportionatley high rate of infiltration in Hollywood was used as an example of this. As for dismissing the achievements of Farrell and Neeson as contrbuting to "low-brow" entertainment, that just strikes me as bitter.
splendidchap84 2 years ago
"our people are highly regarded on an international level in the looks department as well as for artistic merit. Our disproportionatley high rate of infiltration in Hollywood was used as an example of this."
Not really, you've just had some Hollywood hacks. The yanks have a stiffy for anything Irish. You're hardly alone in that department.
"that just strikes me as bitter"
LOL if you say so. Not quite sure how you come to that conclusion.
truekiwijoker 2 years ago
Truwkiwijoker....Sheep shagging?? Were you trying to pre-empt such comments with your awesome powers of mind reading? I didn't mention a word about sheep shagging. That smacks of an inferiority complex to be honest - you should probably see somebody about it. Then again, if you choose to take offense at comments by idiotic ten year olds then that is your prerogative.
splendidchap84 2 years ago
"Truwkiwijoker....Sheep shagging?? Were you trying to pre-empt such comments with your awesome powers of mind reading? I didn't mention a word about sheep shagging."
You might not but every other Irishman seems to. So puerile...
"That smacks of an inferiority complex to be honest - you should probably see somebody about it."
What like every one of your desperate sounding responses?
"idiotic ten year olds"
They're all at least 18.
Please learn the proper definition or prerogative.
truekiwijoker 2 years ago
basically....... its bad but if you play rugby you have to expect that this kind of thing could happen to you! sorted
kaibishin 2 years ago
nonu should have snapped his neck...it wouldnt affect the way you's play rugby anyway...it's not like you's would be any worse...or inbred looking...or dumb
gdogau 2 years ago
Nonu's specialty is doing late tackles and getting away with it :p
siwooot 2 years ago
hehe.. nothin wrong with that... nonu taking out the trash...
jdwet1980 2 years ago
New Zealand scum talking about more new zealand scum yous really are scummy.
conoriscool123 2 years ago
Excellent, well balanced comment there.
KiwiNJ 2 years ago
I'm not from NZ... This sometimes happen in rugby, no need to get your panties in a knot... Go watch balade and do something about your spelling...
jdwet1980 2 years ago
better a scum then a two-foot inbred.
SouthStags88 2 years ago
A two foot inbred funny enough arnt most of us two footed?
conoriscool123 2 years ago
Funny enough aren't most Irish inbred? they sure look it! :D
truekiwijoker 2 years ago
And what made you come to this conclusion?
conoriscool123 2 years ago
What I've alluded to!
To elaborate further:
Pasty and piebald complexions
Big 'potato' craniums
Ginger hair
Big ears/no chins
etc...
truekiwijoker 2 years ago
TruekiwiJOKE I've left you a string of replies on this video since you seem to have banned me from commenting on your profile rather than wait to be inevitably outwitted. Do you always censor people when you realise that they're more intelligent? Add that to the cart of self esteem issues that I have referred to below. Read from the bottom up. I feel that I have nailed a few home truths that may be hard to swallow. Be brave son...
splendidchap84 2 years ago
Oh dear Splendidchap you're resorting to telling fibs. Tut tut.
Now why would I single you out for blocking from my profile when anyone can see it covered far nastier messages from your oh so decent and cool countrymen? If I didn't block them or delete their messages then its pretty clear it doesn't bother me and I wouldn't block you.
I think another, more logical conclusion might be drawn to who's more intelligent and who's been outwitted boyo [headpat].
truekiwijoker 2 years ago
yeah thats good coming from a country with more sheep than people eh? idiot
meancrib 2 years ago
Hate to break it to ya mate but Ireland also has more sheep than people. So does Wales, Scotland and Australia. It's really not that strange.
KiwiNJ 2 years ago
stick to tattooing your ugly faces your shit at everything else. World Cup bottle merchants! lol
dan32113 2 years ago
Um ok, bit harsh I was only talking about sheep, lol.
NZ = Rugby League WC holders - What you got?
KiwiNJ 2 years ago
Yeah you're right it is pretty good. Not quite sure why you're mentioning the fact NZ has more sheep than people though. We've also got more cows than people too.
Australia, South Africa, Iran, Sudan, Morocco. Ireland until recently had more sheep than people too. But don't fret I'm pretty sure you've still got more potatoes than people.
truekiwijoker 2 years ago
Wouldnt expect any less from the NZ Scum. No place on a Rugby pitch. Well bring a few travelers down next time and he can fight them to his hearts content.
Docbeatz 2 years ago
the funny thing is theres a vid on youtube showing darcy spear tackling rua tipoki without the ball and all the comments from people in the uk are saying it was a good tackle. you irish need to take a table spoon of cement and harden the fuck up, its a physical game, no1 goes out to injure people this shit just happens.
UHtiger 2 years ago 2
Well i just searched for this darcy spear tackle and found nothing.
Harden the Fuck up. Using your logic we should abandon all reason. Nobody would play if you had a strong chance braking your neck or dislocating your shoulder in every game. Dont be Stupid. So you are saying this is a perfectly fine tackle and should be part of every day rugby?
The rules are there so we can see our favorite player week after week not once every six months.
Docbeatz 2 years ago
you couldnt find it because it wasnt put up by itself, its just in a highlights package of the game between the lions and the nz maori. and of course i think its a dangerous tackle but like i said he hasnt set out to injure him, its an accident that happens in a physical game simple as that.
UHtiger 2 years ago
It is up mate, under "Darcy accidentally spears Tipoki".
KiwiNJ 2 years ago
yeah just had a look, thats the tackle im talking about.
UHtiger 2 years ago
just found a vid of the tackle im talking about."Darcy accidentally spears Tipoki". i take it back the comments arnt that it wasnt a bad tackle, the main comment is that it was an accident and how darcy is such a nice and clean player.
UHtiger 2 years ago
typical nz. do what thy like and get away with it.
dansgan 2 years ago
truth be spoken!!!!
Rosshizzle 2 years ago
LOL here we go!
Yeah right everything is stacked in NZ's favour. There's a big conspiracy people!!!
truekiwijoker 2 years ago
hey dude u just sore loser coz nz is beta than ireland by far and plus in nz that is not that hard
ChrisNZPorirua09 2 years ago
im not a sore loser i know nz are much better than ireland. but u cant just go round dropping people on there heads. like the lions tour in 05 b o d got taken out, nothing happens to any nz player. last week a lions player gets band for fuck all, its bullshit
dansgan 2 years ago 2
the week before the odriscal incident a lions player spearedrua tipoki with out the ball, nothing came of that. get over it, it was 4 years ago.
UHtiger 2 years ago
fuck off that is a spear
GongWe 2 years ago
thats not a spear that is a dump....
fucking dirty too
andrewrudyk 2 years ago
im irish, i love ma'a nonu as a player but when i see this i think hes an ass hole
slightlyphsyco 2 years ago 2
LOL...omg Ma`a...SMASH that Irish DOG!
lkvhkjhvdfhv 2 years ago
this is not a spear tackle... fucking babies
gummygimp 2 years ago
your all idiots, go on a pitch and let some anger out with some rugby. but don't do it here, its not going anywhere, NZ spear tackled a few times but there not as dirty as some teams, play the rules or don't play at all.
franko656 2 years ago
Thats not a spear!!!
JROD447 2 years ago
Rua Tipoki got spear tackled on that tour also, Geordan Murphy laid one on someone during the Taranaki game.
No Kiwis complained about either because we didn't have the "Prince of Darkness" along as our media advisor, desperately trying to come up with an excuse to rationalise how they were absolutely thrashed in every game.
Fuck O'Driscoll.
nakedmolerat43 2 years ago 2
and fuck you too
pacificspotted 2 years ago
Nonu is a prick
minit08 2 years ago
Was this the game nonu threw/handed off stringer like a rag doll?
TheTotalRugby 2 years ago
We Irish are Warriors and always have been.
MJM220881 2 years ago
You Irish are such biased hystrionic moaners. I can't even take you seriously.
It's bad enough you moan and boohoo and make a federal case about anything that doesn't go your way, but it's disgusting you make it an issue of nationality and have to run down everything about my country.
Tana and the All Blacks are NOT especially dirty. Not as dirty as France, England, or South Africa.
Your behaviour is reminiscent of your rugby team, LOSERS. Finally after 61 years you win, yeah crow away...
truekiwijoker 2 years ago
Theres an awful lot of shite talk goin on here now!!whos good an whos shit...first off New Zealand are ranked number 1,pound for pound probably better then any team,an the stats agree with me...However if you cant produce the goods when it matters there has to be something wrong..That is the bottom line of this arguement,look at the fuckin stats stats stats stats...an then tell me who is ranked number one!!!...Declan kidney for president
BarneyEire0900 2 years ago 2
Jeez, The ABs are fond of spear tackling!
dunlaoghaire 2 years ago
What about D'Arcys tackle on Tupoki in the Lions v Maori match...no comments by Lions fans about that tackle?
crusadersfan1 2 years ago 5
All Blacks = Cheats and bastards! x
Raichu234 2 years ago
exactly the same as the Rory Best tackle on Gavin Henson... difference, nobody fucking cried about it.
gummygimp 2 years ago
Jesus! The duty is on the tackler to prevent the tackled payer from being hurt if he is in the air. That means Nonu, not BOD. Regardless of intent.
Diom1982 2 years ago
its actually gordon d'arcy in the 13 shirt
calummoran69 2 years ago
It actually looks like the Irish player jumps, I don't think he meant to spear him at all, I agree with blind, Nonu hardly touched him. Lucky turnout for Ireland really because the guy who passed the ball would of been penalised for shepherding
BroomeBlocker3 2 years ago
nonu barely touched him , look at that score line 31 zip
BlindT0RtureKill 2 years ago
i think he was jst afraid of darcy potentially running rings around him (as darcy is the superior) so he had to try and hurt him....didnt work tho :)
SMuel7 2 years ago 2
Agreed that nonus spear tackle in itself wasnt life threatening at all, but the act can produce horrific consequences i know of a boy who is whealchair bound thanks to a spear
u1003 2 years ago
fuckin fat bastard first brian o'drisicoll now this!!
dipwod99 2 years ago
well if they wanted to own him they could have pulled down his shorts or something, that would have been way more fun, and besides i don't your best mates are spearing you with the intentions of breaking your neck (if they ever have at all) these guys clearly are
yogosan91 2 years ago
it's nothing to do with hardness, i think its the common courtesy of not trying to break someones neck when you could taken them out cleanly and more effectively, the sport is dangerous enough as it is
yogosan91 2 years ago