China is the most capitalistic country in the world. They do not ask questions where the "money" from. They WANT money from people to INVEST in the banks, and no questions asked. The west is a joke!
@10:27, shouldn't it be "..punished people for SAVING"?
Also, please be aware of the smacking sound that you sometimes make. I know that this is a very cruel thing to say and I'm sorry, but sometimes shallow, petty things like that can have a disproportionate effect on how your message is received.
Rent/rape, Food/rape, Tax/rape, regulation/rape, license/monopoly/rape - obliterate any working persons income. Our system is based on extortion.... we are the United States Of Extortion!!! The mass media supports extortion FIRST and FOREMOST. Everything else is frosting to distract from our cake - extortion system.
For anyone who is a little slow Peter wants you to invest in silver and gold which will increase the value of his substantial investment in these metals. Tell me Peter, apart from being a speculator, what do you actually contribute to the US economy.
@SchiffReport im confused how you can possibly claim China has a freer economy than the US. China has gone back to imposing strict price controls on goods. Unilever was just recently fined for telling the Chinese media its thinking about raising prices. how you can claim they are more capitalist than us, i have no clue. and you bring up price distortions brought on by government. are you just going to ignore the massive real estate bubble going on in China?
Want a few more reasons on why to buy silver? Check out our brief historic silver timeline and reasons on why silver will go over pass the $100 mark soon! SilverPricesSoar.blogspot.c om
We are still in phase 1 of the bull cycle. Posts like yours are solid indicators on this.
If you are a short term trader and you day trade then for sure, ride on the momentum.
But I totally hope you keep up your good work in getting ppl NOT to buy precious metals. This way I can accumulate as much as I want before the bull cycle hits phase 2 and 3.
Another bull denier, which is even a bigger indication we are still early in the bull cycle.
When people start lining up and fight for physical gold and silver (like back in the high days of stock bubble), then tell me we are near the end of the commodity bull run.
@tzontlilic The bull market in gold has been running since 00-01..Thats 10 years, Im in no way denying the bull market, but it is most certainly NOT in the first stages. PEOPLE ARE LINING UP JUST LIKE THEY WERE IN THE LATE 70's...I CANT OPEN A NEWSPAPER OR TURN ON THE TV WITHOUT HEARING ABOUT GOLD....Im not saying gold is going to turn and go lower from here, its in a bull market obviously I wouldnt be so naive.
dammit you are not doing what I wanted to see. Tell people it's a phase 3 bull market and the bubble will pop any time soon. Come on man, you can do better than that.
WOW!!!!! WHAT HAPPEN TO YOUR SILVER and GOLD??????? Silver $50 to $34 a 32% DROP! IN one Week hahaha! Gold! Up 3% Year to Date! Isn't the world coming to an end the dollar will collapse and we are going to Hyper Inflate??? Didn't Peter say that the Fed will destroy America and that the Dow Gold ratio will be 1-1? What is going on?? Are you starting to feel just a little bit like big suckers? Can't say I did not warn you!
I truly love how you can type all those words as if you believe them yourself. Keep up the good work. I hope you scare enough people not to buy PMs so I can load up more while they are still affordable.
@tzontlilic O My God the Horror of taking profits! Scary stuff eh? Please do load up as much as you can. Raise that cost basis up. I'll tell you what I will take down your screen name and write you back when gold takes a 75% dump. Ok? How about that? It is only fair for me to inform you what I did with your money. ;) You fail to understand that what ever the price it is ALWAYS 100% from zero. $1000 $2000, $5000, $10,000. It matters not. I am Always right in the end as you raise your cost Basis.
I love how you can say stuff as if you believe in them yourself (I just can't lie like that)
If you are really truthful in what you are saying, have fun trading for profit. I don't have that time and skill to do it. I will just sell when bull cycle phase 3 is here.
@tzontlilic How many 100% gains did Silver have from $10? 5 right? How many 37%down did it have? 1 right? Now tell me. How many 100% up did it take out in one 37% move down? About 2 of them right? Ok Now I ask you How many times did people buy from $10 to $50? A $hit load of times! What do you think their cost basis is? about $37. How many of them are under water now? 95% of them! Why? Because they took no profits! They only bought into Peters B.S. Now I am crazy for saying take profits. Yea Ok!
Good for you if you have the skills to pick tops and bottoms and be profitable. But again, if you DO have the skills, I don't know why you are wasting time talking to me here. You should already be the richest person in the world as you can predict the future so accurately.
I don't have the time and skills, so I just have a simple exit strategy and I will only make 2 transactions.
@tzontlilic Where do you see me writing I can pick tops or bottom? No where! 2 I AM the richest man in the world. 3 I waste my time while waiting to take profits in my investments. 4 I am a long term investor is "Code Word" For I am losing my ass and I am waiting to break even and get out of my position. Good Luck waiting! 5 Who ever has bought and held for the past 11 years is losing their ass. 6 As the great poet MIKE Tyson once said “everyone is brave till they get punched in the face!”
It was bankers who manipulated the the money when gold was money to change it to the system we have today. What makes you think that if we go back to a gold money system the bankers won't just repeat the same process?
@orlingas All manipulation stems from the fact that fractional-reserve is legal, and was codified in 1811 by the decision in Carr vs. Carr. Since the government decides what is and isn't legal, they legalized fraud because it was in their interest. By outlawing FRB, you remove the legal basis for the counterfeiting and with no central bank, you remove the life line of the counterfeiters. The market will take care of the rest, by exposing and punishing frauds.
@vindician You think you are clever trying to hide and protect the REAL criminals. Fractional Resrve ****** (FRB). What does the "B" stand for vin? BANKING. Who profits more the government or the BANKERS. When the bankers control money they just BUY the government.
@orlingas Are you seriously suggesting I was trying to hide the fact that FRB stood for fractional reserve banking? Are you really this insane? Government and the bankers have a partnership to their mutual benefit. Government pass the laws the bankers want, bankers make sure the politicians have money to buy votes. A win-win for them at everybody else's expense. That is why FRB should be OUTLAWED as the fraud and counterfeit operation it is.
@orlingas Are you seriously suggesting I was trying to hide the fact that FRB means fractional-reserve banking? Are you insane? Bankers and politicians work together. The politicians pass the laws the bankers want, bankers finance the politicians' campaigns and pet programs. Win-Win for them, at everybody else's expense.
@orlingas Since there are no such money substitutes in circulation, I haven't been able to choose whether I trust them or not. Hopefully I and everyone else will be allowed that choice one day.
The choice of money was not voluntary it was what the rulers said it would be. My point was not that slavery was voluntary but that it was accepted just like gold was accepted. Does not make either of them right though. In the US, the government is supposed to represent us. The reason why they don't is because they answer to the bankers and not the people. The bankers control our money system and so control our government.
@orlingas Money was an invention that rose on the free market as people wanted to facilitate trade, to move from direct exchange to indirect exchange. Money is a market invention, not a government edict. Rulers simply hijacked an already working system and manipulated to their own benefit. Anything VOLUNTARILY accepted is by definition right. Who the hell are you to tell people what they can and can't use as money, with 1000s years of history against you?
@vindiciao So if people voluntarily accept "fiat paper money" then it is right and you the hell are you to deny them this. You FAIL every time you reply.
@orlingas Have I tried to deny anyone the right to use paper money? No, I haven't. What did I just say? That I wanted a FREE MARKET IN CURRENCIES you illiterate imbecile. Learn to fucking read. What I have stated is that nowhere, ever, has paper been VOLUNTARILY accepted by the market. You can of course try to get people to accept your worthless IOUs, but I very much doubt you'll have any success.
@vindician People accept "worthless IOU's" all the time. SHIT! The chinese are buying billions of them. You bought your kilo of silver with it. Where did you get those "worthless IOU's? You must have worked/produced something in exchange for them so that you could then exchange them for something you valued like the silver.
@vindician I agree lets have the people choose whether they have the right to make good on their promissory obligations without having bankers and middlemen steal the principle and then charge interest on top of that.
We can make our representatives in government do this by implementing MPE. For those that don't want it they can pay with gold.
@vindician The short answer is with a promissory note. A promise to pay in goods/production in equal amount of goods/production. To expedite this, WE THE PEOPLE can set up a non-profit exchange to issue the currency. I borrow $20k from the exchange and hand it to the dealer. My payments would be spread over the avg life of a car (let's say 10 or 15 years). As I pay off the debt, the money going back into the exchange willcome out of circulation at roughly the same rate that the good is consumed.
Since i am introducing the currencyas a debt their is an obligation to pay it back so the currency Is not inflated. As I consume the good, the circulation decreases at the same right. There is no INTEREST charged on the debt so their is no multiplication of indebtedness.This way I do not have to spend more in production to pay for a good of equal production.
@orlingas All this would be possible in a free market of currencies. I don't think it would work, but you and your buddies would be free to try. You wouldn't obviously be allowed to force this onto anyone, but you would be allowed to try.
@vindician If you had the choice to borrow at no interest and pay for goods at the rate of consumption, I am pretty sure most people would take that choice over borrowing from a lender at interest.
@orlingas Borrowers may prefer interest free loans, but lenders don't. Why would anyone want to give up present goods for future goods, without any compensation? Present goods are always more valuable then future goods, which would have to be taken into account when you offer future labor. That means you'd be paying interest anyway. If you have a ton of avocados, that may buy you a car. But if you don't have it, you would have to pay 1,2 or 1,5 tons a year from the exchange.
@vindician You don't need lenders. Our promise to pay is what is of value. Money is just published evidence of that promise to pay. The money in MPE functions the same as it does now. The difference is that it cannot be inflated or deflated because it always maintains a vital circulation relative to all the goods. Since inflation and deflation are eliminated the price of goods will not increase over time or decrease over time as a result of inflation or deflation.
@orlingas Lenders and borrowers are created automatically. The minute you buy present goods withfuture goods (the promise thereof), you become a borrower and the seller becomes a lender. That is what a loan is, the promise to pay something with something in the future. Because present goods are more valuable than future goods, the borrower pays a premium. Instead of 100 hours of labor today for a car today, you pay 120 hours a year from now for a car today. Do you understand what I'm getting at?
@vindician "Because present goods are more valuable than future goods, the borrower pays a premium" this is just your assumption based on our current system. The seller can take our promise to pay and become a buyer to someone else. The seller receives the full value of his/her production immediately and the buyer pays off the debt at the rate of consumption.
@orlingas It is not "my assumption based on the current system", it is a law of economics. Present goods are always more valuable than future goods because they have higher utility. A car today can be very useful, a car 100 years from not so much because by then you'll be dead. What you are proposing is to go back to direct exchange barter and the denaial of one of the most basic laws of economics and thus part of human nature. You are welcome to try, but it would never work.
@vindician again you are making false assumptions about how the system works and since economics is a theoretical social science I doubt there are any laws of economics. I mean even gravity is still a theory ;)
While 12,000 homes a day continue to go into foreclosure, mathematically perfected economy™ would re-finance a $100,000 home with a hundred-year lifespan at the overall rate of $1,000 per year or $83.33 per month. Without costing us anything, we would immediately become as much as 12 times as liquid on present revenue.
@orlingas You really need to understand what interest is. It is not usury, its is not some vile trick used to enslave people. It is a reflection of our time preferences and the fact that present goods are more valuable than future goods. Think about it. Would you sell me 100k house today, and let me pay back the 100k over 100 years? You may, but you'd be pretty alone in that. It would be ludicrous for anyone to give 100k today so that he 100 years, or even 10 years, would get the 100k back.
@vindician I understand what interest is. And I understand that it inevitably inflates the circulation to the point of terminal failure. Why should goods have different values over time? Other than perishable items there is no reason for that. If I buy a pair of Levis today should it have less value if I buy it a year from now? Again you are assuming that seller is "financing the purchase" The seller gets paid at the time of the sale.
@orlingas You clearly don't understand interest, since you keep talking about inflation and "termainal failure". Those are consequences of the present and very flawed system, it has nothing to do with interest per se. I've very thoroughly explained why PRESENT goods are more valuable than FUTURE goods. Its quite simple. You can use present goods today. You can only use future goods in the future. A car today is very valuable, a car when you're lying on your death bed not so much. Understand?
@orlingas My point is that interest serves a very important function and is a reflection of a very basic part of human nature. From a strict economic perspective, a buyer benefits from receiving the good immediately and delying the payment indefinately. A seller benefits from receiving payment immediately and delaying delivery indefinately. From a business perspective, both buyer and seller need to agree on the terms of the exchange. Delay on either side is likely to be compensated.
@orlingas Of course there is delay. You only issue promissory note to pay with equal value goods/services. You don't bring those goods/services to the transaction, resulting in an automatic delay. And again, how can the seller know what those future goods/services even are, let alone evauate them and price them to the present good he is giving up?
And no, there is never a point where there isn't enough money in circulation. Any money supply is optimal, stability is what is important.
@vindician Some of those promissory notes can be taken the same day and buy a pizza, or a happy meal or whatever the seller wants to exchange for. How much interest should he charge for the 30 minutes it takes to get his pizza delivered?
So 1 pound of gold for instance is enough money to handle all the money needed to circulate in the US. ????
@orlingas Like I said, there is very little that suggests those notes could be used for anything, since there is no way of knowing that the "equal goods or production" even exists, not to mention how different people value different things. The guy selling a pound of oranges may think that is the same value as a pizza, but the pizza baker may think his pizzas are worth 2 pounds of oranges. MPE would effectively mean regression to a direct barter system.
@orlingas And yes, on pound of gold would be enough. With only one pound of gold avaiable, it would obviusly be extremely valuable per unit. In such a scenario, 1 grain of gold might buy you a whole West Indian island or whatever. Any amount is optimal. The important thing is that it is stable and not subject manipulation.
@vindician so let's assume you have 100 lbs of gold available in circulation. Lets assume 10 of those pounds are in savings banks. The banks pay out 5%/yr and they turn around and lend it for 10%/yr. How long will it be before the banks have all the gold?
@vindician Says who? Are you going to force them to do that? What if they decide to hoard the gold. Since, you would have taken away their right to make even greater profits in a fractional reserve system what will stop them from getting control of all of the gold to a point where people will be begging for the old system because there is no gold in circulation left over for commerce.
@orlingas Even bankers consume, you know, and to consume they need the income from their business. All companies need to invest in order to survive. If they don't, their equipment and facilities become obsolete an unworkable. Also, not everybody needs to borrow money, some are content with living within their means and saving for the future. Lastly, why the hell would a bank just want to sit on a hoard of gold? They're business men, not dragons from Middle Earth.
@vindician of course your right, they would invest. Maybe they can buy up companies, with all there profits. The more gold they take as profit from interest the more companies they can buy. At some point, they will own more and more businesses and recollect more and more of the gold, not only controlling all the gold but most of production too. Sounds great Vin!
@orlingas Your conspiracy theories are utterly ridiculous. Lona banks would be little more than financial intermediaries, making a profit by providing a service in the exact same way all other businesses do. The good ones make a lot of money, the bad ones go bankrupt. That is true for banks as well. There is nothing mystical, magical about banks in a full-reserve system with no central banks or any other privileges, legal or otherwise, for the banks.
@orlingas But with what goods/production? What goods/production do you have to offer? Why would the seller trust that you can give him the goods/production you have promised, even assuming he wants it?
And what $ are you talking about? The USD issued by the FED? Or by "we the people"? Who are these "people"?
In the system I advocate, people would of course be free to set up these exchanges, but I doubt very much they would work.
@vindician I have my labor to offer. Maybe I grow avocados or fix toilets or wash dishes. The exchange could easily qualify potential buyers the way lenders do now based on income. Currency $ can be issued electronically or by printing it on paper (as we do now in both cases). USD is a promissory note issued by the private Federal Reserve Banks. Since they are backed by no production (being that they are just leechers) they are worthless.
@orlingas Ok. Then you still have the problem that car dealer may not want avocados, or dish washing, or toilet fixing. And how would you price future labor relative to a car today? As said, you'd be free to try, but what you're proposing is in effect the very inefficient direct exchange barter that mankind left behind thousands of years ago. Likewise, the notes would be worthless, as they contain empty promises impossible to valuate.
@vindician It is a monetized barter system. The notes are not worthless. They are our promises to pay in equal value of our own goods or production. You still have currency in the same forms as today paper and electronic. The difference is since interest does not multiply the debt and the principle is paid out of circulation at the rate of consumption of the good you eliminate inflation and deflation. The debt is always backed by the remaining value of the good.
@orlingas The problem is that the currency today is worthless as well, as it is not backed by something phsyical. Same goes for a promise to pay "in equal value of our own goods or production", as it is impossible to know the value of those goods and production, since no one knows what that actually is. And that is not taking into account the problem of pricing present goods in terms of future goods, or the problem of subjective value.
@orlingas Personally and given the choice, I wouldn't accept paper as payment for anything I had to sell. I would prefer a commodity backed medium of exchange. As said before, I want a commodity-backed monetary system with a stable money supply for many reasons, but the main reason is that in such a system, real prices would fall gradually over time as production increases. It would also limit if not eliminate the business cycle, another very important boon for the economy.
@vindician "as it is not backed by something phsyical" It is backed by all the goods in our economy. It's not impossible to know what that is. What is our GDP? Remember money is just a medium of exchange. If I think the $5.00 someone is asking for a hamburger is a good price, I will buy it. If it's too expensive I'll go somewhere else.
@orlingas You don't seem to understand what "medium of exchange" means. A medium of exchange is a good you don't yourself want, but you trade your goods for it because you know someone else will want accept it as payment. The car dealer may not accept your 1,000 avocados as payment for his car, but he may accept the gold you have traded your avocados. In this scenario, gold has become the medium of exchange.
A medium of exchange is an intermediary used in trade to avoid the inconveniences of a pure barter system.
If any one out of all the other goods is used as the medium of exchange you must keep a constant amount of that good relative to the remaining goods otherwise you can inflate or deflate the circulation.
@orlingas As explained, it is a GOOD thing that the good used as money gain value relative to all other goods over time. We want that to happen. It rewards saving and invesmetment, which is what grows the economy. Your fear of "deflation" is completely baseless.
There quite a few laws of economics. The law of supply and demand is the most famous. The law of marginal utility is another, and is connected to the impact of time preference on the valueation of present vs. future goods.
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@chelonia1663 On fire mate ,who the hell are these Austrian imbeciles? They fail basic 2nd grade maths & absolutely have no idea about money creation pre expansion , they wave actual money creation then falsly claim a secondary fictional expansion that multiplies down to zero is money creation ,Money created by Bank out of thin air? YEA RIGHT,these fools fail to see the obfuscation of a borrowers promissory obligation which actually has value,but hey they keep parroting garbage that isn't true.
@chelonia1663 You know nothing of Austrian economics nor economics in general. You're just another loud mouth fraud like Orlingas. You're stuck in the current FRB-paradigm, unable to imagine a world based on full-reserve banking and sound money. Paul Samuleson relied heavily on math, which lead him to believe that the USSR would overtake the US. He believed that until 1989. That's what you get when applying math to a social science.
@vindician I can imagine your world... one of scarcity of money as we suffer deflation. one of the same bankers who run the system you despise running the system you want. one of a few greedy gold bugs making obscene profits at the expense of the rest of humanity who will lose everything as if a metal is necessary for two people to exchange goods of equal value. You are an accomplice to the crimes of the bankers. You despise the Fed, but forget it was the bankers themselves that created it. FOOL
@orlingas There is no inflation/deflation with a stable money supply. Continously and gradually falling prices would be a good thing, its the reward for increased productivity. Deposit bankers would not be able to do anything except provide warehouse and payment services. You and the whole MPE-crowd are hopelessly lost in your fairytale world of math illusions. And no one's said you have to use metal to exchange goods, but people have chosen to do so voluntarily for 6,000 years.
@orlingas Prices fall because production increase. As we produce more goods and services, they become ever more abundant relative to the money we use, if the money supply stay stable. That means you have to give fewer units of money to buy the same types of goods as before. Basic supply and demand, and is incidentally what happened from 1776 to 1913 in the US.
No, DEPOSIT bankers wouldn't give loans. LOAN banks would perform the function of intermediary between savers and borrowers.
@vindician So you deflate the money supply! Meaning money is scarce... the money is not stable, it decreases relative to the increase of goods and services. Stable means stays the same no movement.. Thank you for proving my point. :)
@orlingas I'm talking about the money SUPPLY, you moron! If the money SUPPLY is stable, there is no deflation/inflation because the money SUPPLY DOESN'T CHANGE. Jesus Christ you're dense! As we produce more goods and services, they become more abundant, meaning we need less money to buy the same amount. That is a GOOD thing, it is the natural consequence of increased production. The PURCHASE POWER of the money increases, because the SUPPLY remains stable. How fucking hard is this to understand!?
@vindician If prices fall because production increases then prices should rise when production decreases. So you are saying the supply of money has no effect on prices? If it does not, then inflating or deflating the currency meaning increasing or decreasing the supply of money should have no effect on prices. If it does have an effect, that means there is a relation between prices and the supply of money. So take your pick does the supply of money effect the price of goods or not?
@orlingas Money SUPPLY effects money PRICES. Money prices reflect the exchange rates between money and other goods. If goods increase, but the supply of money remains the same, money becomes MORE valuable relative to other goods = money PRICES fall. This is what I've been saying from comment 1. If the money supply increases much faster than the production of goods, MONEY becomes LESS valuable = money PRICES rise. That is why you want a stable money SUPPLY, so that its PURCHASE POWER increases.
@orlingas If you inflate the money SUPPLY, money PRICES will rise in real terms. How much they rise in nominal terms depends on how much production increases. It is therefore entirely possible that the money supply increases, but money prices fall, if the money supply increase is moderate and production increase is significant. As production increase over time but the money supply remains stable, money PRICES fall. Its all about supply and demand, and relationship between money and other goods.
@vindician So what you have just said is a fixed money supply is deflationary if production increases. Which means also the opposite would be true a fixed money supply is inflationary if production decreases. Which means fixed money does not eliminate the effects of inflation and deflation.
@orlingas Is you skull solid wood? Deflation/inflation is decrease/increase of the money SUPPLY. Can you get this through your head? Rising prices is not inflation, falling prices is not deflation.
When the money SUPPLY remains stable but production increases, the value, the purchase power of the money goes up, which translates into lower money PRICES.
The fact that prices fall when the production increases is a GOOD thing. We WANT falling prices. It is a sign of economic progress.
@vindician Increasing the money supply relative to goods (inflation) causes prices to rise. Decreasing the money supply relative to goods (deflation) causes prices to drop. Is that what you are saying?
@orlingas Increasing the money supply relative to goods causes REAL prices to rise. NOMINAL price increases can and often are wholly or partially offset by the increased production. However, its REAL prices that are important.
Decreasing the money supply causes REAL prices to fall according to the same dynamic.
What you want is a stable money supply, so that money PRICES fall gradually over time as production increases, without the distortions and volatility inherently part of pure paper.
@vindician If increasing the money supply relative to goods causes real prices to rise and decreasing the money supply causes real prices to fall then a fixed money supply would have the result of any increase or decrease in the supply of goods to cause the real price of the goods to also decrease or increase. Thus, a fixed money supply cannot keep real prices the same unless the production of goods are fixed also.
@orlingas You have to differentiate between the action of increasing/decreasing the money supply and thus manipulate prices and the economy at large, from the natural tendency for prices to fall as production increases. It is a world of difference between the natural changes in prices stemming from changes in production relative to a stable money supply, and the distorted price structure resulting from the manipulation of the money supply.
@orlingas You don't want to keep real prices the same, you want them to fall, because that is what they are suppose to do in a growing, expanding economy. You DON'T want the NOMINAL price level to remain the same, because that means raising REAL prices through money supply manipulation. That robs us of the benefits from a growing economy.
@orlingas You don't use gold to back the money supply, gold IS the money. The value of gold relative to other goods would of course fluctuate, since the gold supply is fairly stable (i.e. can't be doubled with a key stroke unlike the US dollar), the volatility would be miniscule. Nothing is 100% stable, but some things are a lot more stable than others and stability is what you want in money. There is a reason for why gold has been the market choice for money the past 6,000 years or so.
@vindician So we all have to carry physical gold? No paper promissory notes? Any volatility is bad for people. Why not adopt the only system that eliminates all volatility by eliminating inflation and deflation? MPE
@orlingas Whether people want to carry actual money or money substitute is an individual choice. You have to differentiate between paper money and money SUBSITUTE. Today, a FED note is the actual money. Under a gold standard, the bank note would be a money substitute. Gold would still be the actual money. MPE would eliminate anything and as I've labored to explain, we WANT falling prices in both real and nominal terms. We don't want rising real prices and stable nominal prices.
@vindician You have reached the point of just repeating the same stupid statements not based on fact and logic. I clearly walked you through the logic and you refuse to see it. Maybe its because you are watching your silver take a huge hit right now.... Form a high of $50 to about $36 in about a week. What percentage drop is that in your stable "money". Ohhhh wait Austrians don't do math. HAHAHA That's how YOUR money SOUNDS about now.
@orlingas Real money has always been real goods since the beginning of time, because that is only thing people have voluntarily accepted. You have no logic, no reason and certainly no history on your side. Everything you claim is contradicted by thousands of years of human history. I've explained everything very thoroughly, but you insist on confusing money with money substitute, nominal prices with real prices, inflation/deflation with changes in production.
@vindician 1.) Slavery was accepted for thousands of years so by your logic, we should still have slavery. You need to clear your head of your prejudice and start to work through the logic. If your proposed system is the best we have (as you say) and we have used it in the past, why do we not use it today? Who is to blame for this?
@orlingas Your illogic knows no bounds. There was nothing voluntary about slavery. The choice of money was completely voluntary. Again you show your complete lack of ability to separate things from one another. Why is the US becoming fascist police state? There is always someone who gains from injustice. In the case of money, the government and special interest benefit from the present system, so it is forced upon the public at the point of a gun. Paper money has always been forced onto people.
@vindician Your nostalgia for gold is misguided. You said yourself that any good could be used as money. True it could but it is not the most efficient system and controlling the supply of that 1 good allows you to manipulate the value of all the other goods. What people want is to be able to trade their own production/good for someone elses production/good at whatever value they mutually agree upon. You artificially insert a third good that must represent all goods This is not freedom, vin.
@orlingas Again, it is YOU who keep obsessing about gold, not me. I want a free market in currencies where people are allowed to choose themselves what they accept as money. Historically, that has been gold and silver, but it doesn't have to be. It can be anything the market chooses. Some may even go back to direct exchange, but since that is horribly inefficient, it is safe to assume that the market will choose to use media of exchange, and its choice its choice is likely to be gold and silver.
@orlingas About silver...I bought silver at the end of January...then it cost 700 euro per kilo, now its hovering around 1,000. When you invest in metals you invest for the long term. Temporary correction mean nothing. Gold dropped from 1,400 down do 1,250 last year, now its up over 1,500. Nothing moves up in a straight line, but as far as gold and silver is concerned, the trend is clear.
@vindician Even if you fix the supply of money you can still have the same EFFECTS on REAL prices as inflation and deflation (as you define them) because of the relationship between money and goods. On top of this, the gold you use to back the money supply does not have a fixed price as it is also susceptible to supply and demand of that good. So, a 100% reserve gold backed fixed currency is not stable at all as it is effected by both the supply of goods and gold.
@vindician the problem with your theory is that you assign a good (gold) to represent the medium of exchange for all goods. Your medium of exchange should not have real value in and of itself (ie paper money is worthless) in order for it to function in its intended capacity (a medium of exchange). For all money is is a promissory note to pay one value of production for an equal value of production.
@orlingas I don't assign anything, you are the one obsessing about gold. I've only used it as an example. Anything can be a medium of exchange, but some goods simply are better suited for this purpose. When the market has been allowed to choose, i.e. before legal tender laws forced fiat paper on everyone, it chose gold. Not at first, many things have been tried, but sooner rather than later gold and silver have always been the money of choice.
@orlingas Your notion that money should be worthless is completely at odds with logic, reason and history. Money is a medium of exchange, a means by which mankind switched from direct trade to indirect trade, thus eliminating the double coincidence of wants. Instead of having to find someone who had the goods you wanted and wanted the goods you had, you traded your goods for gold and used the gold to buy the goods you wanted. No one would ever accept a worthless piece of paper for actual goods.
@vindician Money is not a good. It is a promise to pay for production in an equal amount of production. If I grew wheat and you had cattle and you wanted to expand your ranch and needed wheat, you would come to me and say give me a ton of wheat and I will return to you 100 cows when I produce them. We sign the promissory note and conduct our business. Money is the promissory note.
@vindician By assigning only one good to be money, you are manipulating the exchange. This is artificial manipulation because it does not allow us to freely choose the how we value one good versus another.
@vindician Only a money system that maintains a vital circulation equal to the goods/production also in circulation will eliminate the EFFECTS of deflation and inflation. Money must be introduced as debt (promissory note) and the debt should be paid off at the rate of consumption retiring out of the circulation as the debt is repaid. This debt cannot be subject to interest for interest will inflate the circulation.
P = 'Principle' sum of debt which is brought into circulation is subject to I = Interest % so when we pay I = Interest % out of a circulation at anytime only comprised of P = 'Principle' you are forced to re-borrow P+I again and again at an ever escalating rate creating irreversible and inevitably terminal multiplication of artificial indebtedness in proportion to capacity to pay.
Take Profits when you can and often! Not when you are scared and have to. By then it is too late your losing your ARS! Most morons sell because they are scared not because they are profitable! professionals Sell when they are profitable!
I hope all you Gold / Silver, Dollar collapse, Hyper inflation, End of World, Bear $hitters, Tea baggers! Are watching and learning just how fast you can lose your ARS's in commodities! Silver from $50 to $42 in 1 hour!
1 HOUR!! O N E H O U R!!
Keep sending me crazy emails about 1929, Austrian Rocks and the FED sucks and Ben is the enemy and Peter has your back. By the time you figure out that what I've been telling you for a while is correct it will be too late for your portfolios sadly!
While it's true that the devaluing of the US Dollar is causing the increase in gas prices, but I've witnessed serious gouging going on at stations where I live near Chicago. So we have crooks in the Fed, White House, Congress and gas stations.
@supobostarman It is not True. When Oil was at $150 the Dollar index was at .89! Last time DX was at .74 gas was $1.50 lower at the pumps. Don't believe the B.S. Headlines. Do your own research. Peace!
Economics isn't my field of knowledge; I'm a software engineer. But what I've been observing and what you're saying makes a lot of sence, and it's pointing to something scarey as hell, like a brick wall getting bigger and bigger because we're racing toward it as fast as we can in pursuit of high lifestyle by any means, as though it's our right regardless of reality. My gut feel is that no one is going to pull out a good outcome from all this. So where's the reset button?
We have all reason expressing our rage and protest against those culprits when women are shouting rape. People must use the oil price to penetrate Washington political parties and the military before 2012 election. Going to work for shrinking wages won't give you any edge in these back door dominated political arrangement.
Big oil can hide their profits all the time but what is the reason they don't hide it now? Something is going on. If politicians are pocketing some of those profits, the big oil will have the edge in the 2012 election. Their money charm plays are consistent and appeal to politicians. Obama is not dare to rescue you out of those hijackings if you don't shout for help. You need to shouting help in huge groupings, then you'll not become casualty.
Gas is not at a record low. The record low would be in 1980 when silver peaked at 50 an ounce while gas was only about $1.25 per gallon. So one ounce of silver during the silver peak in 1980 you would get you 40 gallons of gas. For gas to be at a record low we would need silver to be at $160 and gas at $4 per gallon because then one ounce of silver would get you 40 gallons of gas. But you are right that gas is cheaper now than most of the time in history.
Peter the whole market is about speculation. You invested (speculated) on base and precious metals. You, expecting the US economy to collapse, invested (speculated) on emerging markets. Yes, inflation is created when too much money follows a small amount of goods. Aren't people speculating when they buy something "today" thinking the prices will rise "tomorrow"?
Peter Schiff do you really believe, all things being the same, that we would have the same economy as 100 years ago? What's wrong with you? Things do NOT stay the same. China will eventually make all the "reforms" we adopted in this country. Hopefully you will live long enough to witnesses it.
@TheWBAH WHen the hell did Peter claim that "things stay the same"? It would be nice if critics one, just once, tried to argue against what Peter actually said instead of their own phantoms.
@vindician Yes, he keeps saying if we're using silver "change" that is paying our gasoline with silver coins we would be more prosperous than we are today. That is--we would ALL live richly. We ALL be living debt free just like we're 100 years ago.
@TheWBAH You really are allergic to reason, aren't you? He made the obvious point that if would use real money instead of fiat paper money, we wouldn't be experiences such rampant price rises in key goods such as gasoline. It also illustrates that the rise in goods like gas or commodities such as oil is almost entirely due to the Fed's money printing, which was another main point he was making. So again, argue against what he SAYS, not your own illusions. Are capable of that at all?
I used to have an honest feeling about Bernanke , but he is getting more dumber by the day...I have been writing speaker John Boehner see what happens.if they dont start bumping the rates up all hell is going to break loose. I have also heard that the global elite have no intentions to save the US dollar because they want to bring in a new international currency.I figure when gas gets anywhere between 7 to 10 dollars a gallon that will cause the collapse.
@orlingas Take a look at the unemployment rate in Europe Spain 21% for example How about the 2 year Bonds for Portugal 12% and Greece 25% and climbing. How they going to repay those rates with a shrinking work force? Who are they going to tax? How is that EURO looking right about now at 1.48? Exports down which = less jobs. They are worried about Debt instead of worrying about Jobs! This is a recipe for disaster! I will send you the links
@Minethis1 I agree that it is a recipe for disaster but Bernanke and Co. cannot save our current system here in the US either. They can only prolong the inevitable :(
@ibelucky1 They won't bump the rates up because it will speed up the terminal failure of the monetary system. All money in the system is debt. The money in the system = the principle of the debt. The money to pay the interest does not exist. In order to service the debt you must reborrow the principle+interest. this causes a multiplication of indebtedness with more and more money in the system going to pay off an ever increasing debt. Ultimate result is a collapse.
@xxabsolutexxhavoc12 If you had an ounce of sense you would figure out that Peter was speaking about relationships of fuel and real money. You are too quick to call others names when in reality you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. If you have been listening to Peter for any amount of time and listening to what he says , you would be better off. I have made$ 25505.00 in the last 8 weeks because I listened to him and bought silver. How much have you made?
Unless you are consuming all of your income you are also a speculator are you not? If you hold onto currency by putting it into a bank or under your mattress you are "speculating" that someone in the future will be willing to trade something for it in the future. What is the difference between someone putting $10 into a savings account ten years ago or buying a hunk of silver (besides the ability to trade the silver for more gasoline)? All reserved income is speculation.
@PumpkinJoe999 I'm just interjecting here but I don't think this counts as speculation. When I deposit money into a checking or savings account in a bank, I'm not explicitly speculating on the future of any markets or commodities, people deposit money into the bank not to make money [banks cheat you anyways], but just to provide a safe and relatively secure place to store your money and do transactions. Until you actually start trading with the intention of making money, that's not speculation.
How can you not be speculating on future markets when you put money into a bank unless you never plan on going back to the bank to use that money in the future? Why should your expected gains matter? They don't. Any appraisal of a commodity's future value is speculation regardless of intentions or expected future gains, thus every single action involving a commodity other than consumption has an element of speculation.
@PumpkinJoe999 I agree with everything you said but even consumption can be speculative.
For example in Brazil when they had very, very high inflation people would run to buy whatever they needed, (food, clothing,..etc.) as soon as they got paid because prices would be higher the next day. And indeed they were--people speculated they would...
@PumpkinJoe999 You've reinforced what I just said; "any appraisal of a commodity's future value" requires an intention to speculate. Speculation requires intention, when somebody deposits money into a checking's account in a bank, there is zero intention to speculate on any future commodity, they simply want a stable place to put our money. Everyday families that do this are certainly not in the same league as the market speculators that are wreaking havoc on those middle-class families now.
China has no property tax! They win! "Headlines are wrong". Actually, the headlines are wrong intentionally and have been so since before WWII. The whole point of the media is to BS to avoid responsible activity from citizens and the military. Everyone is homeless in the USA because of property tax and codes. Waste - also intentional. All economies are great. Economy is always economical, which means no waste = no renting, taxing, or controls, with homes, food, health, and transportation.
I lost my last bit of faith in the western system at 2 points:
1. When Tony Blaire announced that "We live in a credit based society" (whatever you think of religion, the bible says that usery is NOT beneficial to the people)
2. When the BBC news said that there was a "new phenomenon, which economists believe is just as bad as inflation - it's called DEFLATION"
You see, there has NEVER been, and NEVER WILL BE a single day where an economy has not inflated or deflated
@AnnoyingTypoSyndrome I would not agree with "NEVER WILL BE" That is up to us to change the system. The only one so far that can eliminate the inflation/deflation cycle is Mathematically Perfected Economy. Look it up.
@AnnoyingTypoSyndrome Very true, but you have to ask why? Politicians have to play by the bankers' rules or they will not survive. The bankers hold all the power. "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws." - Mayer Rothschild. The only way you have change is through the people. Look at what Gandhi did in India. This is why the Austrians are so misguided. They say government cannot be trusted give the power to the bankers. But the bankers are the problem all along.
this guy is correct.
China is the most capitalistic country in the world. They do not ask questions where the "money" from. They WANT money from people to INVEST in the banks, and no questions asked. The west is a joke!
yoyuepz 5 months ago
@10:27, shouldn't it be "..punished people for SAVING"?
Also, please be aware of the smacking sound that you sometimes make. I know that this is a very cruel thing to say and I'm sorry, but sometimes shallow, petty things like that can have a disproportionate effect on how your message is received.
Other than that, great video. Thanks. :)
Alternamaton 8 months ago
Rent/rape, Food/rape, Tax/rape, regulation/rape, license/monopoly/rape - obliterate any working persons income. Our system is based on extortion.... we are the United States Of Extortion!!! The mass media supports extortion FIRST and FOREMOST. Everything else is frosting to distract from our cake - extortion system.
geehuckwow 9 months ago
great points
survivalchef 9 months ago
For anyone who is a little slow Peter wants you to invest in silver and gold which will increase the value of his substantial investment in these metals. Tell me Peter, apart from being a speculator, what do you actually contribute to the US economy.
alcraig 9 months ago
@SchiffReport im confused how you can possibly claim China has a freer economy than the US. China has gone back to imposing strict price controls on goods. Unilever was just recently fined for telling the Chinese media its thinking about raising prices. how you can claim they are more capitalist than us, i have no clue. and you bring up price distortions brought on by government. are you just going to ignore the massive real estate bubble going on in China?
Slayer8957 9 months ago
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Want a few more reasons on why to buy silver? Check out our brief historic silver timeline and reasons on why silver will go over pass the $100 mark soon! SilverPricesSoar.blogspot.c om
WorldsFinalEvents 9 months ago
We are still in phase 1 of the bull cycle. Posts like yours are solid indicators on this.
If you are a short term trader and you day trade then for sure, ride on the momentum.
But I totally hope you keep up your good work in getting ppl NOT to buy precious metals. This way I can accumulate as much as I want before the bull cycle hits phase 2 and 3.
tzontlilic 9 months ago
@tzontlilic STAGE 1 OF THE BULL CYCLE??WHAT TYPE OF DRUGS ARE YOU TAKING? WE ARE AT OR NEAR THE LAST AND FINAL STAGE OF THIS BULL MARKET IN PM'S...
P.S...I opened my local paper the other day and this was on the front page.
img18.imageshack.us/img18/7324/23116020863217173021222DOTjpg
IF YOU THINK THIS IS AN INDICATION OF THE FIRST STAGES OF A BULL MARKET YOU ARE FUCKING HIGH.
2leet2cheet 9 months ago
@2leet2cheet
Then I am high.
Another bull denier, which is even a bigger indication we are still early in the bull cycle.
When people start lining up and fight for physical gold and silver (like back in the high days of stock bubble), then tell me we are near the end of the commodity bull run.
tzontlilic 9 months ago
@tzontlilic The bull market in gold has been running since 00-01..Thats 10 years, Im in no way denying the bull market, but it is most certainly NOT in the first stages. PEOPLE ARE LINING UP JUST LIKE THEY WERE IN THE LATE 70's...I CANT OPEN A NEWSPAPER OR TURN ON THE TV WITHOUT HEARING ABOUT GOLD....Im not saying gold is going to turn and go lower from here, its in a bull market obviously I wouldnt be so naive.
2leet2cheet 9 months ago
@2leet2cheet
dammit you are not doing what I wanted to see. Tell people it's a phase 3 bull market and the bubble will pop any time soon. Come on man, you can do better than that.
tzontlilic 9 months ago
Osama is NOT really dead! The government faked it all just to keep Obama in office for four more years!
Also, I have proof that Obama is NOT dead!
Check my video out to see the truth about Osama & our government and the lies before the video gets removed!
AndyHarglesis 9 months ago
WOW!!!!! WHAT HAPPEN TO YOUR SILVER and GOLD??????? Silver $50 to $34 a 32% DROP! IN one Week hahaha! Gold! Up 3% Year to Date! Isn't the world coming to an end the dollar will collapse and we are going to Hyper Inflate??? Didn't Peter say that the Fed will destroy America and that the Dow Gold ratio will be 1-1? What is going on?? Are you starting to feel just a little bit like big suckers? Can't say I did not warn you!
Minethis1 9 months ago
@Minethis1
I truly love how you can type all those words as if you believe them yourself. Keep up the good work. I hope you scare enough people not to buy PMs so I can load up more while they are still affordable.
tzontlilic 9 months ago
@tzontlilic O My God the Horror of taking profits! Scary stuff eh? Please do load up as much as you can. Raise that cost basis up. I'll tell you what I will take down your screen name and write you back when gold takes a 75% dump. Ok? How about that? It is only fair for me to inform you what I did with your money. ;) You fail to understand that what ever the price it is ALWAYS 100% from zero. $1000 $2000, $5000, $10,000. It matters not. I am Always right in the end as you raise your cost Basis.
Minethis1 9 months ago
@Minethis1
Keep up the good work man :)
I love how you can say stuff as if you believe in them yourself (I just can't lie like that)
If you are really truthful in what you are saying, have fun trading for profit. I don't have that time and skill to do it. I will just sell when bull cycle phase 3 is here.
tzontlilic 9 months ago
@tzontlilic How many 100% gains did Silver have from $10? 5 right? How many 37%down did it have? 1 right? Now tell me. How many 100% up did it take out in one 37% move down? About 2 of them right? Ok Now I ask you How many times did people buy from $10 to $50? A $hit load of times! What do you think their cost basis is? about $37. How many of them are under water now? 95% of them! Why? Because they took no profits! They only bought into Peters B.S. Now I am crazy for saying take profits. Yea Ok!
Minethis1 9 months ago
@Minethis1
What you said is complete no shit.
Good for you if you have the skills to pick tops and bottoms and be profitable. But again, if you DO have the skills, I don't know why you are wasting time talking to me here. You should already be the richest person in the world as you can predict the future so accurately.
I don't have the time and skills, so I just have a simple exit strategy and I will only make 2 transactions.
tzontlilic 9 months ago
@tzontlilic Where do you see me writing I can pick tops or bottom? No where! 2 I AM the richest man in the world. 3 I waste my time while waiting to take profits in my investments. 4 I am a long term investor is "Code Word" For I am losing my ass and I am waiting to break even and get out of my position. Good Luck waiting! 5 Who ever has bought and held for the past 11 years is losing their ass. 6 As the great poet MIKE Tyson once said “everyone is brave till they get punched in the face!”
Minethis1 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Minethis1 " 4 I am a long term investor is "Code Word" For I am losing my ass and I am waiting to break even and get out of my position"
I'm a long term investor and disciplined. You won't lose money on gold or silver if you buy it now and hold it for at least 4 years.
endornify 8 months ago
It was bankers who manipulated the the money when gold was money to change it to the system we have today. What makes you think that if we go back to a gold money system the bankers won't just repeat the same process?
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas All manipulation stems from the fact that fractional-reserve is legal, and was codified in 1811 by the decision in Carr vs. Carr. Since the government decides what is and isn't legal, they legalized fraud because it was in their interest. By outlawing FRB, you remove the legal basis for the counterfeiting and with no central bank, you remove the life line of the counterfeiters. The market will take care of the rest, by exposing and punishing frauds.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician You think you are clever trying to hide and protect the REAL criminals. Fractional Resrve ****** (FRB). What does the "B" stand for vin? BANKING. Who profits more the government or the BANKERS. When the bankers control money they just BUY the government.
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas Are you seriously suggesting I was trying to hide the fact that FRB stood for fractional reserve banking? Are you really this insane? Government and the bankers have a partnership to their mutual benefit. Government pass the laws the bankers want, bankers make sure the politicians have money to buy votes. A win-win for them at everybody else's expense. That is why FRB should be OUTLAWED as the fraud and counterfeit operation it is.
vindician 9 months ago
@orlingas Are you seriously suggesting I was trying to hide the fact that FRB means fractional-reserve banking? Are you insane? Bankers and politicians work together. The politicians pass the laws the bankers want, bankers finance the politicians' campaigns and pet programs. Win-Win for them, at everybody else's expense.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician And yet you trust these same bankers to hold our gold deposits and issue our "money substitutes".
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas Since there are no such money substitutes in circulation, I haven't been able to choose whether I trust them or not. Hopefully I and everyone else will be allowed that choice one day.
vindician 9 months ago
The choice of money was not voluntary it was what the rulers said it would be. My point was not that slavery was voluntary but that it was accepted just like gold was accepted. Does not make either of them right though. In the US, the government is supposed to represent us. The reason why they don't is because they answer to the bankers and not the people. The bankers control our money system and so control our government.
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas Money was an invention that rose on the free market as people wanted to facilitate trade, to move from direct exchange to indirect exchange. Money is a market invention, not a government edict. Rulers simply hijacked an already working system and manipulated to their own benefit. Anything VOLUNTARILY accepted is by definition right. Who the hell are you to tell people what they can and can't use as money, with 1000s years of history against you?
vindician 9 months ago
@vindiciao So if people voluntarily accept "fiat paper money" then it is right and you the hell are you to deny them this. You FAIL every time you reply.
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas Have I tried to deny anyone the right to use paper money? No, I haven't. What did I just say? That I wanted a FREE MARKET IN CURRENCIES you illiterate imbecile. Learn to fucking read. What I have stated is that nowhere, ever, has paper been VOLUNTARILY accepted by the market. You can of course try to get people to accept your worthless IOUs, but I very much doubt you'll have any success.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician People accept "worthless IOU's" all the time. SHIT! The chinese are buying billions of them. You bought your kilo of silver with it. Where did you get those "worthless IOU's? You must have worked/produced something in exchange for them so that you could then exchange them for something you valued like the silver.
orlingas 9 months ago
@vindician I agree lets have the people choose whether they have the right to make good on their promissory obligations without having bankers and middlemen steal the principle and then charge interest on top of that.
We can make our representatives in government do this by implementing MPE. For those that don't want it they can pay with gold.
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas Freedom of choice is implemented by repealing legal tender laws and abolishing FRB, the central bank and fiat paper.
Out of curiosity. Say you wanted to buy a car. How and with what exactly would you pay the seller?
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician The short answer is with a promissory note. A promise to pay in goods/production in equal amount of goods/production. To expedite this, WE THE PEOPLE can set up a non-profit exchange to issue the currency. I borrow $20k from the exchange and hand it to the dealer. My payments would be spread over the avg life of a car (let's say 10 or 15 years). As I pay off the debt, the money going back into the exchange willcome out of circulation at roughly the same rate that the good is consumed.
orlingas 9 months ago
Since i am introducing the currencyas a debt their is an obligation to pay it back so the currency Is not inflated. As I consume the good, the circulation decreases at the same right. There is no INTEREST charged on the debt so their is no multiplication of indebtedness.This way I do not have to spend more in production to pay for a good of equal production.
orlingas 9 months ago
In the case of housing, we would be allowed to pay for the house once and not 3x as we do now with interest.
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas All this would be possible in a free market of currencies. I don't think it would work, but you and your buddies would be free to try. You wouldn't obviously be allowed to force this onto anyone, but you would be allowed to try.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician If you had the choice to borrow at no interest and pay for goods at the rate of consumption, I am pretty sure most people would take that choice over borrowing from a lender at interest.
orlingas 9 months ago
@vindician You are entitled to "think" it wouldn't work, but I hope you will try to figure out why it would not work.
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas Borrowers may prefer interest free loans, but lenders don't. Why would anyone want to give up present goods for future goods, without any compensation? Present goods are always more valuable then future goods, which would have to be taken into account when you offer future labor. That means you'd be paying interest anyway. If you have a ton of avocados, that may buy you a car. But if you don't have it, you would have to pay 1,2 or 1,5 tons a year from the exchange.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician You don't need lenders. Our promise to pay is what is of value. Money is just published evidence of that promise to pay. The money in MPE functions the same as it does now. The difference is that it cannot be inflated or deflated because it always maintains a vital circulation relative to all the goods. Since inflation and deflation are eliminated the price of goods will not increase over time or decrease over time as a result of inflation or deflation.
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas Lenders and borrowers are created automatically. The minute you buy present goods withfuture goods (the promise thereof), you become a borrower and the seller becomes a lender. That is what a loan is, the promise to pay something with something in the future. Because present goods are more valuable than future goods, the borrower pays a premium. Instead of 100 hours of labor today for a car today, you pay 120 hours a year from now for a car today. Do you understand what I'm getting at?
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician "Because present goods are more valuable than future goods, the borrower pays a premium" this is just your assumption based on our current system. The seller can take our promise to pay and become a buyer to someone else. The seller receives the full value of his/her production immediately and the buyer pays off the debt at the rate of consumption.
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas It is not "my assumption based on the current system", it is a law of economics. Present goods are always more valuable than future goods because they have higher utility. A car today can be very useful, a car 100 years from not so much because by then you'll be dead. What you are proposing is to go back to direct exchange barter and the denaial of one of the most basic laws of economics and thus part of human nature. You are welcome to try, but it would never work.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician again you are making false assumptions about how the system works and since economics is a theoretical social science I doubt there are any laws of economics. I mean even gravity is still a theory ;)
orlingas 9 months ago
While 12,000 homes a day continue to go into foreclosure, mathematically perfected economy™ would re-finance a $100,000 home with a hundred-year lifespan at the overall rate of $1,000 per year or $83.33 per month. Without costing us anything, we would immediately become as much as 12 times as liquid on present revenue.
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas You really need to understand what interest is. It is not usury, its is not some vile trick used to enslave people. It is a reflection of our time preferences and the fact that present goods are more valuable than future goods. Think about it. Would you sell me 100k house today, and let me pay back the 100k over 100 years? You may, but you'd be pretty alone in that. It would be ludicrous for anyone to give 100k today so that he 100 years, or even 10 years, would get the 100k back.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician I understand what interest is. And I understand that it inevitably inflates the circulation to the point of terminal failure. Why should goods have different values over time? Other than perishable items there is no reason for that. If I buy a pair of Levis today should it have less value if I buy it a year from now? Again you are assuming that seller is "financing the purchase" The seller gets paid at the time of the sale.
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas You clearly don't understand interest, since you keep talking about inflation and "termainal failure". Those are consequences of the present and very flawed system, it has nothing to do with interest per se. I've very thoroughly explained why PRESENT goods are more valuable than FUTURE goods. Its quite simple. You can use present goods today. You can only use future goods in the future. A car today is very valuable, a car when you're lying on your death bed not so much. Understand?
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician so what is your point? I have the choice to buy something now or later based on what I value.
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas My point is that interest serves a very important function and is a reflection of a very basic part of human nature. From a strict economic perspective, a buyer benefits from receiving the good immediately and delying the payment indefinately. A seller benefits from receiving payment immediately and delaying delivery indefinately. From a business perspective, both buyer and seller need to agree on the terms of the exchange. Delay on either side is likely to be compensated.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician But in MPE there is no delay on either side so you don't need interest.
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas Of course there is delay. You only issue promissory note to pay with equal value goods/services. You don't bring those goods/services to the transaction, resulting in an automatic delay. And again, how can the seller know what those future goods/services even are, let alone evauate them and price them to the present good he is giving up?
And no, there is never a point where there isn't enough money in circulation. Any money supply is optimal, stability is what is important.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician Some of those promissory notes can be taken the same day and buy a pizza, or a happy meal or whatever the seller wants to exchange for. How much interest should he charge for the 30 minutes it takes to get his pizza delivered?
So 1 pound of gold for instance is enough money to handle all the money needed to circulate in the US. ????
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas Like I said, there is very little that suggests those notes could be used for anything, since there is no way of knowing that the "equal goods or production" even exists, not to mention how different people value different things. The guy selling a pound of oranges may think that is the same value as a pizza, but the pizza baker may think his pizzas are worth 2 pounds of oranges. MPE would effectively mean regression to a direct barter system.
vindician 9 months ago
@orlingas And yes, on pound of gold would be enough. With only one pound of gold avaiable, it would obviusly be extremely valuable per unit. In such a scenario, 1 grain of gold might buy you a whole West Indian island or whatever. Any amount is optimal. The important thing is that it is stable and not subject manipulation.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician so let's assume you have 100 lbs of gold available in circulation. Lets assume 10 of those pounds are in savings banks. The banks pay out 5%/yr and they turn around and lend it for 10%/yr. How long will it be before the banks have all the gold?
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas The banks will never have all the gold since they will use their profits on investments and profit distribution to their shareholders.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician Says who? Are you going to force them to do that? What if they decide to hoard the gold. Since, you would have taken away their right to make even greater profits in a fractional reserve system what will stop them from getting control of all of the gold to a point where people will be begging for the old system because there is no gold in circulation left over for commerce.
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas Even bankers consume, you know, and to consume they need the income from their business. All companies need to invest in order to survive. If they don't, their equipment and facilities become obsolete an unworkable. Also, not everybody needs to borrow money, some are content with living within their means and saving for the future. Lastly, why the hell would a bank just want to sit on a hoard of gold? They're business men, not dragons from Middle Earth.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician of course your right, they would invest. Maybe they can buy up companies, with all there profits. The more gold they take as profit from interest the more companies they can buy. At some point, they will own more and more businesses and recollect more and more of the gold, not only controlling all the gold but most of production too. Sounds great Vin!
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas Your conspiracy theories are utterly ridiculous. Lona banks would be little more than financial intermediaries, making a profit by providing a service in the exact same way all other businesses do. The good ones make a lot of money, the bad ones go bankrupt. That is true for banks as well. There is nothing mystical, magical about banks in a full-reserve system with no central banks or any other privileges, legal or otherwise, for the banks.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician Conspiracy Theory? or Conspiracy Fact!! Did the bankers not conspire to cause a panic and therefore create the Fed? Wake up, vin!
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas You despise the effect and defend the cause. Always destined to repeat the same mistake.
orlingas 9 months ago
@vindician Bankers will work as a cartel to control the money supply.
orlingas 9 months ago
@vindician The more gold they "sit" on the more profits from interest they can make. Interest made on interest... It's called compound interest.
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas But with what goods/production? What goods/production do you have to offer? Why would the seller trust that you can give him the goods/production you have promised, even assuming he wants it?
And what $ are you talking about? The USD issued by the FED? Or by "we the people"? Who are these "people"?
In the system I advocate, people would of course be free to set up these exchanges, but I doubt very much they would work.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician I have my labor to offer. Maybe I grow avocados or fix toilets or wash dishes. The exchange could easily qualify potential buyers the way lenders do now based on income. Currency $ can be issued electronically or by printing it on paper (as we do now in both cases). USD is a promissory note issued by the private Federal Reserve Banks. Since they are backed by no production (being that they are just leechers) they are worthless.
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas Ok. Then you still have the problem that car dealer may not want avocados, or dish washing, or toilet fixing. And how would you price future labor relative to a car today? As said, you'd be free to try, but what you're proposing is in effect the very inefficient direct exchange barter that mankind left behind thousands of years ago. Likewise, the notes would be worthless, as they contain empty promises impossible to valuate.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician It is a monetized barter system. The notes are not worthless. They are our promises to pay in equal value of our own goods or production. You still have currency in the same forms as today paper and electronic. The difference is since interest does not multiply the debt and the principle is paid out of circulation at the rate of consumption of the good you eliminate inflation and deflation. The debt is always backed by the remaining value of the good.
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas The problem is that the currency today is worthless as well, as it is not backed by something phsyical. Same goes for a promise to pay "in equal value of our own goods or production", as it is impossible to know the value of those goods and production, since no one knows what that actually is. And that is not taking into account the problem of pricing present goods in terms of future goods, or the problem of subjective value.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician Let's just say it was possible to use paper as money without the risk of inflation or deflation would you accept that kind of system?
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas Personally and given the choice, I wouldn't accept paper as payment for anything I had to sell. I would prefer a commodity backed medium of exchange. As said before, I want a commodity-backed monetary system with a stable money supply for many reasons, but the main reason is that in such a system, real prices would fall gradually over time as production increases. It would also limit if not eliminate the business cycle, another very important boon for the economy.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician "as it is not backed by something phsyical" It is backed by all the goods in our economy. It's not impossible to know what that is. What is our GDP? Remember money is just a medium of exchange. If I think the $5.00 someone is asking for a hamburger is a good price, I will buy it. If it's too expensive I'll go somewhere else.
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas You don't seem to understand what "medium of exchange" means. A medium of exchange is a good you don't yourself want, but you trade your goods for it because you know someone else will want accept it as payment. The car dealer may not accept your 1,000 avocados as payment for his car, but he may accept the gold you have traded your avocados. In this scenario, gold has become the medium of exchange.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician
A medium of exchange is an intermediary used in trade to avoid the inconveniences of a pure barter system.
If any one out of all the other goods is used as the medium of exchange you must keep a constant amount of that good relative to the remaining goods otherwise you can inflate or deflate the circulation.
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas As explained, it is a GOOD thing that the good used as money gain value relative to all other goods over time. We want that to happen. It rewards saving and invesmetment, which is what grows the economy. Your fear of "deflation" is completely baseless.
There quite a few laws of economics. The law of supply and demand is the most famous. The law of marginal utility is another, and is connected to the impact of time preference on the valueation of present vs. future goods.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician Is there ever a point where there is not enough money (good) in circulation to conduct all the necessary exchange of goods?
orlingas 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
'GasHole' Every American Citizen Needs to see this documentary , full documentary is now available on youtube revealing oil companies conspiring against the 100mile per gallon car... the disappearance of Tom Vogel inventor of the vapour engine...also controlling oil markets to maximise profits...
aseireann 9 months ago
@chelonia1663 On fire mate ,who the hell are these Austrian imbeciles? They fail basic 2nd grade maths & absolutely have no idea about money creation pre expansion , they wave actual money creation then falsly claim a secondary fictional expansion that multiplies down to zero is money creation ,Money created by Bank out of thin air? YEA RIGHT,these fools fail to see the obfuscation of a borrowers promissory obligation which actually has value,but hey they keep parroting garbage that isn't true.
chotaboy66 9 months ago
@chelonia1663 Bla bla bla. Keep ranting. I've explained long ago what money is. Maybe you should educate Orlingas instead?
vindician 9 months ago
@chelonia1663 You know nothing of Austrian economics nor economics in general. You're just another loud mouth fraud like Orlingas. You're stuck in the current FRB-paradigm, unable to imagine a world based on full-reserve banking and sound money. Paul Samuleson relied heavily on math, which lead him to believe that the USSR would overtake the US. He believed that until 1989. That's what you get when applying math to a social science.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician I can imagine your world... one of scarcity of money as we suffer deflation. one of the same bankers who run the system you despise running the system you want. one of a few greedy gold bugs making obscene profits at the expense of the rest of humanity who will lose everything as if a metal is necessary for two people to exchange goods of equal value. You are an accomplice to the crimes of the bankers. You despise the Fed, but forget it was the bankers themselves that created it. FOOL
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas There is no inflation/deflation with a stable money supply. Continously and gradually falling prices would be a good thing, its the reward for increased productivity. Deposit bankers would not be able to do anything except provide warehouse and payment services. You and the whole MPE-crowd are hopelessly lost in your fairytale world of math illusions. And no one's said you have to use metal to exchange goods, but people have chosen to do so voluntarily for 6,000 years.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician what is the cause of the falling prices?
"Deposit bankers would not be able to do anything except provide warehouse and payment services."
So no loans?
Math is a fairy tale?
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas Prices fall because production increase. As we produce more goods and services, they become ever more abundant relative to the money we use, if the money supply stay stable. That means you have to give fewer units of money to buy the same types of goods as before. Basic supply and demand, and is incidentally what happened from 1776 to 1913 in the US.
No, DEPOSIT bankers wouldn't give loans. LOAN banks would perform the function of intermediary between savers and borrowers.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician So you deflate the money supply! Meaning money is scarce... the money is not stable, it decreases relative to the increase of goods and services. Stable means stays the same no movement.. Thank you for proving my point. :)
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas I'm talking about the money SUPPLY, you moron! If the money SUPPLY is stable, there is no deflation/inflation because the money SUPPLY DOESN'T CHANGE. Jesus Christ you're dense! As we produce more goods and services, they become more abundant, meaning we need less money to buy the same amount. That is a GOOD thing, it is the natural consequence of increased production. The PURCHASE POWER of the money increases, because the SUPPLY remains stable. How fucking hard is this to understand!?
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician If prices fall because production increases then prices should rise when production decreases. So you are saying the supply of money has no effect on prices? If it does not, then inflating or deflating the currency meaning increasing or decreasing the supply of money should have no effect on prices. If it does have an effect, that means there is a relation between prices and the supply of money. So take your pick does the supply of money effect the price of goods or not?
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas Money SUPPLY effects money PRICES. Money prices reflect the exchange rates between money and other goods. If goods increase, but the supply of money remains the same, money becomes MORE valuable relative to other goods = money PRICES fall. This is what I've been saying from comment 1. If the money supply increases much faster than the production of goods, MONEY becomes LESS valuable = money PRICES rise. That is why you want a stable money SUPPLY, so that its PURCHASE POWER increases.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician
If you inflate the money relative to the goods this causes prices to increase?
If you deflate the money relative to goods this causes prices to decrease?
If you inflate the goods relative to money prices decrease?
If you deflate the goods relative to money prices increase?
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas If you inflate the money SUPPLY, money PRICES will rise in real terms. How much they rise in nominal terms depends on how much production increases. It is therefore entirely possible that the money supply increases, but money prices fall, if the money supply increase is moderate and production increase is significant. As production increase over time but the money supply remains stable, money PRICES fall. Its all about supply and demand, and relationship between money and other goods.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician So what you have just said is a fixed money supply is deflationary if production increases. Which means also the opposite would be true a fixed money supply is inflationary if production decreases. Which means fixed money does not eliminate the effects of inflation and deflation.
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas Is you skull solid wood? Deflation/inflation is decrease/increase of the money SUPPLY. Can you get this through your head? Rising prices is not inflation, falling prices is not deflation.
When the money SUPPLY remains stable but production increases, the value, the purchase power of the money goes up, which translates into lower money PRICES.
The fact that prices fall when the production increases is a GOOD thing. We WANT falling prices. It is a sign of economic progress.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician Increasing the money supply relative to goods (inflation) causes prices to rise. Decreasing the money supply relative to goods (deflation) causes prices to drop. Is that what you are saying?
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas Increasing the money supply relative to goods causes REAL prices to rise. NOMINAL price increases can and often are wholly or partially offset by the increased production. However, its REAL prices that are important.
Decreasing the money supply causes REAL prices to fall according to the same dynamic.
What you want is a stable money supply, so that money PRICES fall gradually over time as production increases, without the distortions and volatility inherently part of pure paper.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician If increasing the money supply relative to goods causes real prices to rise and decreasing the money supply causes real prices to fall then a fixed money supply would have the result of any increase or decrease in the supply of goods to cause the real price of the goods to also decrease or increase. Thus, a fixed money supply cannot keep real prices the same unless the production of goods are fixed also.
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas You have to differentiate between the action of increasing/decreasing the money supply and thus manipulate prices and the economy at large, from the natural tendency for prices to fall as production increases. It is a world of difference between the natural changes in prices stemming from changes in production relative to a stable money supply, and the distorted price structure resulting from the manipulation of the money supply.
vindician 9 months ago
@orlingas You don't want to keep real prices the same, you want them to fall, because that is what they are suppose to do in a growing, expanding economy. You DON'T want the NOMINAL price level to remain the same, because that means raising REAL prices through money supply manipulation. That robs us of the benefits from a growing economy.
vindician 9 months ago
@orlingas You don't use gold to back the money supply, gold IS the money. The value of gold relative to other goods would of course fluctuate, since the gold supply is fairly stable (i.e. can't be doubled with a key stroke unlike the US dollar), the volatility would be miniscule. Nothing is 100% stable, but some things are a lot more stable than others and stability is what you want in money. There is a reason for why gold has been the market choice for money the past 6,000 years or so.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician So we all have to carry physical gold? No paper promissory notes? Any volatility is bad for people. Why not adopt the only system that eliminates all volatility by eliminating inflation and deflation? MPE
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas Whether people want to carry actual money or money substitute is an individual choice. You have to differentiate between paper money and money SUBSITUTE. Today, a FED note is the actual money. Under a gold standard, the bank note would be a money substitute. Gold would still be the actual money. MPE would eliminate anything and as I've labored to explain, we WANT falling prices in both real and nominal terms. We don't want rising real prices and stable nominal prices.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician You have reached the point of just repeating the same stupid statements not based on fact and logic. I clearly walked you through the logic and you refuse to see it. Maybe its because you are watching your silver take a huge hit right now.... Form a high of $50 to about $36 in about a week. What percentage drop is that in your stable "money". Ohhhh wait Austrians don't do math. HAHAHA That's how YOUR money SOUNDS about now.
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas Real money has always been real goods since the beginning of time, because that is only thing people have voluntarily accepted. You have no logic, no reason and certainly no history on your side. Everything you claim is contradicted by thousands of years of human history. I've explained everything very thoroughly, but you insist on confusing money with money substitute, nominal prices with real prices, inflation/deflation with changes in production.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician 1.) Slavery was accepted for thousands of years so by your logic, we should still have slavery. You need to clear your head of your prejudice and start to work through the logic. If your proposed system is the best we have (as you say) and we have used it in the past, why do we not use it today? Who is to blame for this?
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas Your illogic knows no bounds. There was nothing voluntary about slavery. The choice of money was completely voluntary. Again you show your complete lack of ability to separate things from one another. Why is the US becoming fascist police state? There is always someone who gains from injustice. In the case of money, the government and special interest benefit from the present system, so it is forced upon the public at the point of a gun. Paper money has always been forced onto people.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician Your nostalgia for gold is misguided. You said yourself that any good could be used as money. True it could but it is not the most efficient system and controlling the supply of that 1 good allows you to manipulate the value of all the other goods. What people want is to be able to trade their own production/good for someone elses production/good at whatever value they mutually agree upon. You artificially insert a third good that must represent all goods This is not freedom, vin.
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas Again, it is YOU who keep obsessing about gold, not me. I want a free market in currencies where people are allowed to choose themselves what they accept as money. Historically, that has been gold and silver, but it doesn't have to be. It can be anything the market chooses. Some may even go back to direct exchange, but since that is horribly inefficient, it is safe to assume that the market will choose to use media of exchange, and its choice its choice is likely to be gold and silver.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician You are using gold or any one good to interfere with the exchange. Why can't you just trade the goods without trading it for gold first?
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas About silver...I bought silver at the end of January...then it cost 700 euro per kilo, now its hovering around 1,000. When you invest in metals you invest for the long term. Temporary correction mean nothing. Gold dropped from 1,400 down do 1,250 last year, now its up over 1,500. Nothing moves up in a straight line, but as far as gold and silver is concerned, the trend is clear.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician Even if you fix the supply of money you can still have the same EFFECTS on REAL prices as inflation and deflation (as you define them) because of the relationship between money and goods. On top of this, the gold you use to back the money supply does not have a fixed price as it is also susceptible to supply and demand of that good. So, a 100% reserve gold backed fixed currency is not stable at all as it is effected by both the supply of goods and gold.
orlingas 9 months ago
@vindician the problem with your theory is that you assign a good (gold) to represent the medium of exchange for all goods. Your medium of exchange should not have real value in and of itself (ie paper money is worthless) in order for it to function in its intended capacity (a medium of exchange). For all money is is a promissory note to pay one value of production for an equal value of production.
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas I don't assign anything, you are the one obsessing about gold. I've only used it as an example. Anything can be a medium of exchange, but some goods simply are better suited for this purpose. When the market has been allowed to choose, i.e. before legal tender laws forced fiat paper on everyone, it chose gold. Not at first, many things have been tried, but sooner rather than later gold and silver have always been the money of choice.
vindician 9 months ago
@orlingas Your notion that money should be worthless is completely at odds with logic, reason and history. Money is a medium of exchange, a means by which mankind switched from direct trade to indirect trade, thus eliminating the double coincidence of wants. Instead of having to find someone who had the goods you wanted and wanted the goods you had, you traded your goods for gold and used the gold to buy the goods you wanted. No one would ever accept a worthless piece of paper for actual goods.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician Money is not a good. It is a promise to pay for production in an equal amount of production. If I grew wheat and you had cattle and you wanted to expand your ranch and needed wheat, you would come to me and say give me a ton of wheat and I will return to you 100 cows when I produce them. We sign the promissory note and conduct our business. Money is the promissory note.
orlingas 9 months ago
@vindician By assigning only one good to be money, you are manipulating the exchange. This is artificial manipulation because it does not allow us to freely choose the how we value one good versus another.
orlingas 9 months ago
@vindician Only a money system that maintains a vital circulation equal to the goods/production also in circulation will eliminate the EFFECTS of deflation and inflation. Money must be introduced as debt (promissory note) and the debt should be paid off at the rate of consumption retiring out of the circulation as the debt is repaid. This debt cannot be subject to interest for interest will inflate the circulation.
orlingas 9 months ago
P = 'Principle' sum of debt which is brought into circulation is subject to I = Interest % so when we pay I = Interest % out of a circulation at anytime only comprised of P = 'Principle' you are forced to re-borrow P+I again and again at an ever escalating rate creating irreversible and inevitably terminal multiplication of artificial indebtedness in proportion to capacity to pay.
WezKitikonti 9 months ago
America's market is far from laissez-faire capitalism! It's corporatist!
rebelq1 9 months ago
test
george4titIe 9 months ago
Take Profits when you can and often! Not when you are scared and have to. By then it is too late your losing your ARS! Most morons sell because they are scared not because they are profitable! professionals Sell when they are profitable!
Minethis1 9 months ago
I hope all you Gold / Silver, Dollar collapse, Hyper inflation, End of World, Bear $hitters, Tea baggers! Are watching and learning just how fast you can lose your ARS's in commodities! Silver from $50 to $42 in 1 hour!
1 HOUR!! O N E H O U R!!
Keep sending me crazy emails about 1929, Austrian Rocks and the FED sucks and Ben is the enemy and Peter has your back. By the time you figure out that what I've been telling you for a while is correct it will be too late for your portfolios sadly!
Minethis1 9 months ago
While it's true that the devaluing of the US Dollar is causing the increase in gas prices, but I've witnessed serious gouging going on at stations where I live near Chicago. So we have crooks in the Fed, White House, Congress and gas stations.
supobostarman 9 months ago
@supobostarman It is not True. When Oil was at $150 the Dollar index was at .89! Last time DX was at .74 gas was $1.50 lower at the pumps. Don't believe the B.S. Headlines. Do your own research. Peace!
Minethis1 9 months ago
Economics isn't my field of knowledge; I'm a software engineer. But what I've been observing and what you're saying makes a lot of sence, and it's pointing to something scarey as hell, like a brick wall getting bigger and bigger because we're racing toward it as fast as we can in pursuit of high lifestyle by any means, as though it's our right regardless of reality. My gut feel is that no one is going to pull out a good outcome from all this. So where's the reset button?
46don13 9 months ago
they really put the hammer down on silver .....
shawnjohn0369 9 months ago
Peter Schiff is the truth.
jmjfanss 9 months ago
We have all reason expressing our rage and protest against those culprits when women are shouting rape. People must use the oil price to penetrate Washington political parties and the military before 2012 election. Going to work for shrinking wages won't give you any edge in these back door dominated political arrangement.
beancube2010 9 months ago
Big oil can hide their profits all the time but what is the reason they don't hide it now? Something is going on. If politicians are pocketing some of those profits, the big oil will have the edge in the 2012 election. Their money charm plays are consistent and appeal to politicians. Obama is not dare to rescue you out of those hijackings if you don't shout for help. You need to shouting help in huge groupings, then you'll not become casualty.
beancube2010 9 months ago
This channel is great for 2 things. Financial truth (thank you, Peter), and long winded trolls.
freemind321 9 months ago 2
@freemind321 ...and little parrots
TheWBAH 9 months ago
@freemind321 a lot of those trolls are other investors.
n0us3rn4m3s4v41l4bl3 9 months ago
Gas is not at a record low. The record low would be in 1980 when silver peaked at 50 an ounce while gas was only about $1.25 per gallon. So one ounce of silver during the silver peak in 1980 you would get you 40 gallons of gas. For gas to be at a record low we would need silver to be at $160 and gas at $4 per gallon because then one ounce of silver would get you 40 gallons of gas. But you are right that gas is cheaper now than most of the time in history.
x500brian 9 months ago
Peter the whole market is about speculation. You invested (speculated) on base and precious metals. You, expecting the US economy to collapse, invested (speculated) on emerging markets. Yes, inflation is created when too much money follows a small amount of goods. Aren't people speculating when they buy something "today" thinking the prices will rise "tomorrow"?
TheWBAH 9 months ago
Peter Schiff do you really believe, all things being the same, that we would have the same economy as 100 years ago? What's wrong with you? Things do NOT stay the same. China will eventually make all the "reforms" we adopted in this country. Hopefully you will live long enough to witnesses it.
TheWBAH 9 months ago
@TheWBAH WHen the hell did Peter claim that "things stay the same"? It would be nice if critics one, just once, tried to argue against what Peter actually said instead of their own phantoms.
vindician 9 months ago
@vindician Yes, he keeps saying if we're using silver "change" that is paying our gasoline with silver coins we would be more prosperous than we are today. That is--we would ALL live richly. We ALL be living debt free just like we're 100 years ago.
TheWBAH 9 months ago
@TheWBAH You really are allergic to reason, aren't you? He made the obvious point that if would use real money instead of fiat paper money, we wouldn't be experiences such rampant price rises in key goods such as gasoline. It also illustrates that the rise in goods like gas or commodities such as oil is almost entirely due to the Fed's money printing, which was another main point he was making. So again, argue against what he SAYS, not your own illusions. Are capable of that at all?
vindician 9 months ago
Its back up now the money for gas :/
dreamslides 9 months ago
I used to have an honest feeling about Bernanke , but he is getting more dumber by the day...I have been writing speaker John Boehner see what happens.if they dont start bumping the rates up all hell is going to break loose. I have also heard that the global elite have no intentions to save the US dollar because they want to bring in a new international currency.I figure when gas gets anywhere between 7 to 10 dollars a gallon that will cause the collapse.
ibelucky1 9 months ago
@ibelucky1 That is because you are listening and getting brain washed by Peter's bull$hit! bernanke is the man!
Minethis1 9 months ago
@Minethis1 Bernanke is the man? Why?
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas Take a look at the unemployment rate in Europe Spain 21% for example How about the 2 year Bonds for Portugal 12% and Greece 25% and climbing. How they going to repay those rates with a shrinking work force? Who are they going to tax? How is that EURO looking right about now at 1.48? Exports down which = less jobs. They are worried about Debt instead of worrying about Jobs! This is a recipe for disaster! I will send you the links
Minethis1 9 months ago
@Minethis1 I agree that it is a recipe for disaster but Bernanke and Co. cannot save our current system here in the US either. They can only prolong the inevitable :(
orlingas 9 months ago
@ibelucky1 They won't bump the rates up because it will speed up the terminal failure of the monetary system. All money in the system is debt. The money in the system = the principle of the debt. The money to pay the interest does not exist. In order to service the debt you must reborrow the principle+interest. this causes a multiplication of indebtedness with more and more money in the system going to pay off an ever increasing debt. Ultimate result is a collapse.
orlingas 9 months ago
Record low fuel prices Lol. Peter is a bunghole. The price increase\Value
of Oil\Gold\Silver\Grain almost everything is driven by 95 % Speculation\
investment. Certainly we are facing inflation Via the indebted Dollar but
you cannot match Fuel to inflation lockstep with Silver price. Only Peter
the Traitor\Trader could find resolve in such a spin.
xxabsolutexxhavoc12 9 months ago
@xxabsolutexxhavoc12 If you had an ounce of sense you would figure out that Peter was speaking about relationships of fuel and real money. You are too quick to call others names when in reality you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. If you have been listening to Peter for any amount of time and listening to what he says , you would be better off. I have made$ 25505.00 in the last 8 weeks because I listened to him and bought silver. How much have you made?
Jimhill58 9 months ago
@Jimhill58 That $25000 you write about is that in real money ? In regards
to how much money have I made ? " 0 " I did not sell .
xxabsolutexxhavoc12 9 months ago
@xxabsolutexxhavoc12
Unless you are consuming all of your income you are also a speculator are you not? If you hold onto currency by putting it into a bank or under your mattress you are "speculating" that someone in the future will be willing to trade something for it in the future. What is the difference between someone putting $10 into a savings account ten years ago or buying a hunk of silver (besides the ability to trade the silver for more gasoline)? All reserved income is speculation.
PumpkinJoe999 9 months ago
@PumpkinJoe999 I'm just interjecting here but I don't think this counts as speculation. When I deposit money into a checking or savings account in a bank, I'm not explicitly speculating on the future of any markets or commodities, people deposit money into the bank not to make money [banks cheat you anyways], but just to provide a safe and relatively secure place to store your money and do transactions. Until you actually start trading with the intention of making money, that's not speculation.
ENJager 9 months ago
@ENJager
How can you not be speculating on future markets when you put money into a bank unless you never plan on going back to the bank to use that money in the future? Why should your expected gains matter? They don't. Any appraisal of a commodity's future value is speculation regardless of intentions or expected future gains, thus every single action involving a commodity other than consumption has an element of speculation.
PumpkinJoe999 9 months ago
@PumpkinJoe999 I agree with everything you said but even consumption can be speculative.
For example in Brazil when they had very, very high inflation people would run to buy whatever they needed, (food, clothing,..etc.) as soon as they got paid because prices would be higher the next day. And indeed they were--people speculated they would...
TheWBAH 9 months ago
@PumpkinJoe999 You've reinforced what I just said; "any appraisal of a commodity's future value" requires an intention to speculate. Speculation requires intention, when somebody deposits money into a checking's account in a bank, there is zero intention to speculate on any future commodity, they simply want a stable place to put our money. Everyday families that do this are certainly not in the same league as the market speculators that are wreaking havoc on those middle-class families now.
ENJager 9 months ago
China has no property tax! They win! "Headlines are wrong". Actually, the headlines are wrong intentionally and have been so since before WWII. The whole point of the media is to BS to avoid responsible activity from citizens and the military. Everyone is homeless in the USA because of property tax and codes. Waste - also intentional. All economies are great. Economy is always economical, which means no waste = no renting, taxing, or controls, with homes, food, health, and transportation.
geehuckwow 9 months ago
@geehuckwow:
I lost my last bit of faith in the western system at 2 points:
1. When Tony Blaire announced that "We live in a credit based society" (whatever you think of religion, the bible says that usery is NOT beneficial to the people)
2. When the BBC news said that there was a "new phenomenon, which economists believe is just as bad as inflation - it's called DEFLATION"
You see, there has NEVER been, and NEVER WILL BE a single day where an economy has not inflated or deflated
LOSE/LOSE
AnnoyingTypoSyndrome 9 months ago
@AnnoyingTypoSyndrome I would not agree with "NEVER WILL BE" That is up to us to change the system. The only one so far that can eliminate the inflation/deflation cycle is Mathematically Perfected Economy. Look it up.
orlingas 9 months ago
@orlingas:
I agree that a Mathematically Perfected Economy, could be achieved, but that's not my point.
My point was, that in the Uk and USA, there are 2 main parties. And they BOTH behave like deadly parasytes.
They have NO interest in things being good for everyone - only for themsleves. They have truly sold old.
They arent talking about CURES - no no, all they have is a pocket full of VERY costly problems !
THATS why i have lost faith in the sytem - because it now protects their evil !
AnnoyingTypoSyndrome 9 months ago
@AnnoyingTypoSyndrome Very true, but you have to ask why? Politicians have to play by the bankers' rules or they will not survive. The bankers hold all the power. "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws." - Mayer Rothschild. The only way you have change is through the people. Look at what Gandhi did in India. This is why the Austrians are so misguided. They say government cannot be trusted give the power to the bankers. But the bankers are the problem all along.
orlingas 9 months ago