Roman Catholic Women Priests Bishop Patricia Fresen's Homily- "We are making history"

[MrMarkJohnOSullivan]

Why can't Patricia Fresen just admit to being a Protestant? She has obviously become one.

[AndrEwsskon]

Woman Can Not be Priests... And in 1995 the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, in conjunction with the pope, ruled that this teaching "requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic"Pope JPII formally declared that the Church does not have the power to ordain women

[larameethebookworm]

Women priests may not be licit but it is not doctrine; rather it is the discipline of the Church and it can be changed. The same goes for celibacy in the western Church. These women are priests albeit not licit their ordination seems to be valid.

[rockiefknraccoon]

Can someone please tell me where exactly does the bible or God or Jesus say women cannot be priests? Jesus is the son of God and when he came down to earth he was crucified by the priests and the church! These women aren't trying to fight the church, but be part of it. Everyone on here is insulting these women who are trying to make a change! Jesus was trying to make a change! "These babies, these freaks" Would God be proud of any of you for saying these things about people God loves?

[MrJamesthecatholic]

@rockiefknraccoon

"Can someone please tell me where exactly does the bible or God or Jesus say women cannot be priests?"

Can you show an example of a woman being ordained a priest in the Bible (its Bible with a capital B) by Jesus WHO IS GOD ? Just one example ? Jesus had women who were disciples - yet can you name ONE APOSTLE who was a woman ?

Also this matter has been infallibly been settled by Peter. He has spoken and thats it.

[rockiefknraccoon]

@MrJamesthecatholic No, women weren't ordained in the Bible (happy?) but NEITHER WERE MEN. And yes, the apostles were all men but Mary Magdalene was the apostle to the apostles and Mary was the first person Jesus appeared to after his ressurection which I believe is significant. And what are you implying with Peter? Jesus said "on you I build my church" not "You're now the Pope, and by the way no women can be Priests, Bishops or Popes."

[MrJamesthecatholic]

@rockiefknraccoon

"No, women weren't ordained in the Bible (happy?"

This has nothing to do with happiness. What you say is something like "I agree men cant give birth to babies. Happy ?".

"but NEITHER WERE MEN"

Really ? Are you willing to bet your eternity on that ? What if I show you otherwise ?

"Mary Magdalene was ... and Mary was the first person..."

The Blessed Virgin (you need to learn to respect) is the single boast of the Human race - but that doesn't make her a priest.

[rockiefknraccoon]

@MrJamesthecatholic

I never said she was a priest, and I have plenty of respect thank-you, but I don't think God intended us to be respectful in a fearful way as you seem to be indicating, but in a parent relationship kind of way. Do you call your mother "Dear blessed honourable one who has given me life, I am eternaly in debt to you"?Thank-you for ignoring some other points I made and "am I willing to be my eternity on that"? Are you seriously trying to say I may go to hell for stating fact?

[rockiefknraccoon]

@MrJamesthecatholic

When I said (happy?) I was just responding to you when you were so clearly upset by me not writing Bible with a capital. And what if you show me otherwise? Please do, I would love to see this.

[MrJamesthecatholic]

@rockiefknraccoon

rockiefknraccoon can you please tell me what makes a priest a priest ? In other words why does a priest exist primarily for ? What function or duty of a priest makes him different from someone who is not a priest ?

[rockiefknraccoon]

@MrJamesthecatholic The call to be a Priest comes from God. Who are men to say that their call in their hearts is valid but women's are not?

[MrJamesthecatholic]

@rockiefknraccoon

"The call to be a Priest comes from God. Who are men to say that their call in their hearts is valid but women's are not? "

Rockie... I would say (with the church) that the "call" that these women describe as being to the priesthood is in reality a temptation of the devil - who wants to mock the holy priesthood - and the High Priest - Jesus Christ. That is what the devil does - perversion.

What makes your opinion correct and mine wrong? Are you somehow special ?

[rockiefknraccoon]

@MrJamesthecatholic Do you honestly think that women cannot feel the difference between a call from God and a call from the Devil?

I do not think I'm somehow special, I'm facing the facts and accepting them to make a change. Why do you consider yourself to be right? Because the pope says so?

[MrJamesthecatholic]

@rockiefknraccoon

"Do you honestly think that women cannot feel the difference between a call from God and a call from the Devil?"

No its not just that there is some hard line between women and men, when it comes to discerning if a call is from God or if its a temptation of the devil.

All of us, irrespective of our gender, have a fallen nature. If discerning temptations was so easy, do you think anyone would sin ? We wouldn't even be arguing now if that was so easy. would we ?

[MrJayguess]

@MrJamesthecatholic " the "call" that these women describe as being to the priesthood is in reality a temptation of the devil" How crassly offensive to the thousands of women called to the priesthood & ordained ministry in other denominations (eg the Anglican Church that can also trace its roots back via apostolic succession). Or are you now saying that the Holy Spirit is alive and well and working SOLELY where YOU think he should - ie among RC men alone?

Look at yourself as the devil's agent.

[MrJamesthecatholic]

@MrJayguess

"How crassly offensive to the thousands of women called to the priesthood & ordained ministry in other denomination"

"Look at yourself as the devil's agent."

Mr Jay.. first of all there is Only one Church - because God is One and HE cannot lie. You seem to assume that I should somehow care about the fancy dress competitions played by pretend priests in fake "churches". Sorry I dont - Eternity is not sufficient to comprehend the beauty of God.

cont (2)...

[MrJamesthecatholic]

@MrJayguess

"Look at yourself as the devil's agent."

Mr Jay the good news is that all the crazyiess of your generation of Catholics - all the 50+ oldies who want women to be priests, who contracept, who disobey the Church is dying out with you generation.

Women in my generation (the 20s and 30 somethings) know what true womanhood is and they know the craziness of your generation.

Your time is up and we look to our grandparents for Catechism - cause everything from the 60s - 80s is suspect.

[PInk77W1]

@rockiefknraccoon the pope , thats who..... Rome has spoken, the matter is closed

[rockiefknraccoon]

@PInk77W1 That's ridiculous. Rome has spoken, the matter is closed.?! The pope isn't God. The pope, as a matter of fact, is so scared of change and admitting the church has made mistakes that there are thousands of people being sexually abused by catholic priests! And what does the vatican do about it? They move the priests around so more abuse can happen! They aren't excommunicated! But these women are! The pope instructed the bishops to put the church's interest above child safety. So really?

[PInk77W1]

@rockiefknraccoon the pope is not God, but he is his spokesman. if u have evidence of child abuse i suggest u give it to the authorities. If the authorities dont get the outcome u wish for, yell at them and not the pope.

[rockiefknraccoon]

@PInk77W1 The thing is people are afraid to go to the authorities because of the pope. Did any of that get through do you? Can you possibly give justice to the popes actions?

[PInk77W1]

@rockiefknraccoon i dont have to give justice to the popes actions. I am a catholic, not a cop. People are afraid of the pope? I dont know anyone afraid of the pope. Half the catholics in america are now ex catholics. Dont sound to fearful to me.

[MrJayguess]

@rockiefknraccoon Absolutely. Hear Hear. How crassly offensive are some of the comments here about women in the RC Church. If the Holy Spirit can call RC women to the priesthood, as He has in oother denominations, who is the RC Church to deny that? Yet they accept the 'call' of paedophile priests over and above that of pastoral, spiritual, devout women. Christ must weep in heaven.

[MrJamesthecatholic]

@MrJayguess

"If the Holy Spirit can call RC women to the priesthood. He has in oother denominations"

Ssee thats the problem with nuts from the 60s who think they can do any rubbish and God will "understand". First of all there is nothing left for God to understand. He is omniscient.

Second of all there is Only One Church - no matter how much you pretend.

Third - the Catholic Church is not a denomination - there is nothing it has denominated from.

[MrJayguess]

@MrJamesthecatholic Well, 'nuts' like me who think they can do 'any rubbish' actually have studied the CHRISTIAN faith (and not the 'religion' of Catholicism) more, it seems, than you. It seems I have forgotten most than you will ever even learn.Part of that learning experience isto submit to the Holy Spirit and not the ex-nazi pope. Just look at your objectionable comments; Christ must weep in Heaven at your crass stupidity.

[MrJamesthecatholic]

@MrJayguess

"Just look at your objectionable comments; Christ must weep in Heaven at your crass stupidity."

Ignorant raving protestant - so lets get this straight. Its ok for you to froth against God, my religion and the Holy Father.. but you get all upset if someone points out your ignorance and stupidity ?

Hypocrite.

[MrJayguess]

@MrJamesthecatholic 1. I have NEVER ''frothed' against God as I'm a practising Chriistian who weeps at your lack of love and compassion for these women - even if you regard them as sinners. 2. Your 'religion' should be Christianity not Catholicism but you have shown little Christian love so far. 3. Just look at your objectionable comments and ask yourself - how would JESUS have responded?

I think it would be light years away from your judgemental bigotry. Our correspondence is over, I think.

[MrJamesthecatholic]

@MrJayguess

"who weeps at your lack of love and compassion for these women"

Mr. Jay it is because I have compassion and charity for these women, my sisters, that I am trying to show them NOT what my opinion is, but what the Church's doctrine is (and she alone has the right given my God to define doctrine based on His revelation).

Your opinion is one which would lead these women to hell - please dont call that either compassion or charity. You dont know what you speak, yet you claim correctness

[MrJamesthecatholic]

@MrJayguess

"Well, 'nuts' like me who think they can do 'any rubbish' actually have studied the CHRISTIAN faith "

Really ? And and how did you do that ? Private revelation ?? Or are you now claiming to be infallible yourself ?

[MrJayguess]

@PInk77W1 You mean the infallible pope who was once in the Nazi party - youth branch - and who covered up a host of sexual abuse cases before he occupied the papacy? You mean the infallible pope who is SO wise that he allowed married Anglican priests, who did not want women priests, to become MARRIED Catholic priests - unwisely causing distress to loyal RC priests who'd given up a family to become priests or those deacons prevented from becoming priests because they were married? Crassly stupid.

[MrJamesthecatholic]

@MrJayguess

"who is the RC Church to deny that?"

Mr Jay.. no Catholic calls the Church "the RC Church". You are obviously not Catholic - and therefore it is understandable that you know NOTHING about being a priest in the Catholic Church.

Rather than playing cheap shots with these misguided CATHOLIC women, may I suggest that you first go and make yourself competent enough to comment on a subject you don't currently have a clue about or better become a Catholic ?

[MrJamesthecatholic]

@MrJayguess

"You mean the infallible pope who was once in the Nazi party - youth branch "

Again ignorant protestant man - it is Blessed John Paul who infallibly declared that the Church has no authority to ordain women. You know zero stuff and yet you call the Holy Father names ? Like I said, thank God your crazy generation and its crappy ideas are dying out. Time up MrJayGuess.

[MrJayguess]

@MrJamesthecatholic 1. the pope has at last admitted himself (reluctantly) he was in the Nazi youth. Fact. He also admitted to being in charge in the Vatican staff during the shameful cover-up of thousands of RC priests abusing children. Fact. And, judging by his age, HIS generation is even older than mine (LOL) - 'bout time HIS crazy ideas died out isn't it?

BTW why instruct me regarding Mary? Where have I even suggested Mary of Magdala was the mother of Jesus?? What a strange person you are!!

[MrJamesthecatholic]

@MrJayguess

". the pope has at last admitted himself (reluctantly) he was in the Nazi youth."

Nice twist of words Mr Jay. He did not admit - he doesnt have to - no one interrogated him. He stated as a fact that he was forced into the Hitler Youth as did everyone else in his seminary. He joined it reluctantly - he did not admit it reluctantly.

"He also admitted to being in charge in the Vatican staff ..."

Yeah.. same logic.. like the POTUS is personally responsible for every rape in the US.

[PInk77W1]

@MrJamesthecatholic LONG LIVE the nazi POPE. better than a female priest/priestess. As the bishop of NYC said when asked about female priest..... "U will c a woman priest in the RCC when u c me pregnant." ....

[rockiefknraccoon]

@MrJamesthecatholic And by the way, Mary Magdalene was not The Blessed Virgin Mary, they are two completely different people.

[MrJamesthecatholic]

@rockiefknraccoon

Read the second last line of "ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS"

"I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful."

That is the infallible declaration of the Same Church - the only one there is - and the one which infallibly canonized Sacred Scripture.

[rockiefknraccoon]

@MrJamesthecatholic I completely understand that the church does not allow women priests, Im not denying it I'm saying they should change that. Ordanatio Sacerdotalis was written by Pope John Paul 11, not Jesus or God. They are not trying to change what Jesus said or did. Jesus preached love, acceptance and equality. Women want to be part of that and the catholic church. Not trying to change what it's main goal is.

[MrJamesthecatholic]

@rockiefknraccoon

"Jesus preached love, acceptance and equality. Women want to be part of that and the catholic church."

Rockie if I (a guy) told you that I want to be a mother - what would you tell me ? Does the fact that I cant be a mom somehow become a discrimination against me ? Does that somehow mean that I do not play MY ROLE in a family ? Does that somehow become against love, acceptance and equality. ?

[rockiefknraccoon]

@MrJamesthecatholic MrJames- a father and a mother are equal. They share the same roles as a family and have the same amount of responsibilty. If men were told they weren't allowed to help care for the child, or love it then your comparison would be right, but currently it's not.

[MrJamesthecatholic]

@rockiefknraccoon

"And what are you implying with Peter? "

What I am implying by Peter - is the office of the Pope - which has infallibly declared the Church's teaching on Priestly ordination in ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS. Look at the comment I just made before this one.

"Everyone on here is insulting these women who are trying to make a change! "

And why are these women TRYING to change what is from Jesus and the Apostles ? Insulted ? IS God insulting me cause I am a guy and cant give birth ?

[traditional600]

This is most funny to watch, its like there playing dress ups like there children

[ronpaulfreedom1]

The Majority of Roman Catholics ..Know that these people are ipso facto excomunicated and Anathema...They are no more prests Then Men are Women and women are men..Sad sad sad..These people have not only detroyed thier own souls but are leading others in the destruction of thier souls..As Roman Catholics We must speak up and out and totaly disregaurd all of them..They are no longer Catholic..This is freak show central !!!

[0276boy]

This matter is decided. Res judicata. Rome has spoken. I am extremely educated, a practicing Catholic and a teacher. No amount of "education" is going to suddenly make me believe that women can EVER be priests. The matter for the sacrament of Orders is a "vir". A male. Period. No more can a woman be a priest than a carrot can be the Eucharist. These babes aren't priests. They're excommunicated now and are not even Catholic. Their "sacraments" are null and void and mortally sinful.

[pcampbell17]

bloody hell

[origvidman]

Not Catholic.

[steakman1989]

Wow, I have never seen so many trolls in one place.

[justaguy230]

The most concerning point of your statement is that Catholics MUST believe in the two said documents. That, to me, is irrevocably coercive and exclusive language. Recent polls show that American Catholics are a bit more educated and welcoming when it comes to current social issues involving the Church, welcoming women into the priesthood being one of them. The vast majority of American Catholics have chosen to disregard the said documents in favor of inclusion.

[justaguy230]

It seems to me that all comments posted here are simply subjective, anecdotal opinions on the validity of women ordination into the priesthood. Can someone, anyone, please point out to me, word for word, where Jesus Christ incontrovertibly said "Verily I say unto you that unless you are a man shall you be allowed to lead my people as head of my Church or to act as a priest on my behalf?"

[petruscephas]

@justaguy230

This is not a matter of subjective opinion.

Do a search on "Ordinatio Sacerdotalis" and its companion piece, "Responsum ad dubium" and read those two documents.

This teaching has been definitively set forth as belonging to the sacred tradition of the Church, the deposit of faith and has been declared infallibly by the Holy Father.

It is required that all Catholics must believe it, without exception.

[tigerbaiter1]

I think the problem is, amongst others, that this lady confuses the outdated with the eternal. Furthermore, she seems be to taking as her inspiration from changes in modern western societies. Given the broken and disordered nature of those, she seems to be a very confused individual.

[gulliverfridge]

Finally, the non-dualistic, non-hierarchic nature of Catholicism can blossom. God the Father, God the Mother and all their blessed children, connected through Christ Emmanuel. Other prejudices also need to be addressed before I can trust the clergy. 1 Respect for Mary as equal to Christ in her unity with God 2 An end to hierarchy in the priesthood 3 The decentralisation of Rome's authority 4 Respect for all religions as uniquely vital paths to God and Truth.

[SuperPricil]

I'm thinking of Mary the mother of Jesus. She was the one chosen by God. During her life she never thought of having an authority or a position in the synagogue or church, she knew the dispositions . She never complained.

But today, many women want a place of authority or a position in the church. It is not ridicolous ?

[tennantrodney]

Shame,when I was young I also played priest, priest in my back yard. Can't these tragically pathetic women grow up? person6113 and evilfreddy2006 - well put! Don't like the rules? Join another club. Bye bye. They couldn't even have the decency to look half feminine ... or maybe that's why...

[antosneosvideo]

Making history?! AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH­AHAHHAH

[antosneosvideo]

Si vero qui mulieri sacrum ordinem conferre vel mulier quae sacrum ordinem recipere attentaverit, christifidelis fuerit Codici Canonum Ecclesiarum Orientalium subiectus, firmo praescripto can. 1443 eiusdem Codicis, excommunicatione maiore puniatur, cuius remissio etiam reservatur Sedi Apostolicae (cfr. can. 1423 Codicis Canonum Ecclesiarum Orientalium).

[nilofc]

EXCOMMUNICATED.

The Vatican declared that any women who attempt “ordination” or any bishops who attempt to “ordain” women are automatically excommunicated from the Church by their actions. The decree from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is said to be absolute, universal and immediately effective.

[jbosco08]

This is extremely funny yet tragic at the same time. Anyone can play dressup.

[luvpinas123]

outdated structures?

[JonTheJansenist]

I am not a Roman Catholic (I have objections to The Council of Trent, Unigenitus and Vatican I), but on this issue the Roman Pontiff is correct. Both from scripture and tradition, women are not permitted to hold the office of bishop, or minister to any flock, or hold any authority in the church government above any man.

Listen to me my poor misinformed feminist friends. The issue here is not about equality, but the role of genders in the eyes of God, as set forth from the beginning.

[devthakur]

I want to laugh ... but really, it's sad.

[burkardhanis]

there is no such thing as women "priest" there were priestess in pagan religions, but never among the Jews or any Christian Church that has real priests that offer the Holy Sacrifice either in the Western or Eastern Liturgy.

[flacos77]

This is hilarious and yet sad at the same time.

[evilfreddy2006]

I am sorry to say ladies but you are not Roman Catholic. According to the canon laws, participating in these acts, automatically excommunicates you from the Church.

[streets2apostle]

@evilfreddy2006 Roman Catholic Canon Laws violate Ecumenical Canon laws, so who is really the heretic here?

[C2209w]

Her ordination is not valid and her ministery sterile.

If I were her I would resort to the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

[lesliecaplan]

You weren't there and I was. This woman is a brilliant humanitarian. I don't blame the Church for being scared to death of her. SHE is the future.

[C2209w]

You are wrong in two aspects:

First none of us are "the future". Jesus Christ is the same, yesterday, today and tomorrow: the Lord, who is and who cometh.

Second the personal character is NOT the issue of our dissension of opinion BUT the ministery which she is bewtowing on herself without authority. Should Jesus have chosen twelve women instead of twelve rude and analphabet men I would perhaps be satisfied, but that decission was the result of HIS authority and nobody can change it.

[evilfreddy2006]

Really? I don't see it happening sorry lol.

[amgdss]

This woman bishop is very liberal! She isn't preaching with her miter on, nor a choir cassock, and i don't think she's sporting a pontifical dalmatic- trendy lefty's, take all the fun out of being catholic!

[bladeboi2]

Just because you believe it, doesn't make it real, Patricia

[kpman]

You can dress them up, but you can t take them out!

[person6113]

I am Catholic because I believe the Catholic Church is the Church established by Jesus Christ, which is infallible in its teaching of faith and doctrine. The constant teaching of the Church is that she cannot ordain women. If the Church is God's creation, we should humbly submit to her authority. If it is a mere creation of Man that needs correction, then why do you want to be Catholic? Please let us have our peace. If you want to protest, then admit you are Protestant.

[rbroeski]

It is about time women reclaim their place as deacons, priests and bishops, once held in the early Church. Even if women had not been ordained in the early Church, it is still right for them to respond now to the call to Holy Orders. Good for them! The Holy Spirit is at work.

[raidereddie]

Honey, there may be a spirit woikin' heah...but it sure ain't holy!

[karpov89]

@rbroeski Women were never bishops or priests, but they were probably deacons...and the deacon does not represent Christ in the same way as the bishop and priest does.

[JonTheJansenist]

@karpov89 We only have one historic example of a woman deacon according to scripture, and even then, we are not told whether or not her duties extended towards holding authority over any other men of equal or greater knowledge of doctrine. Women are permitted to teach other women and have authority over them, but St. Paul is very clear that under NO CIRCUMSTANCE does a woman hold authority over any man or men in the church.

[karpov89]

@JonTheJansenist The function of deacons is not to hold authority over anyone, but to serve.

[JonTheJansenist]

@karpov89 The problem is, the deacon is serving "over" the men of the congregation, so we run into the same problems that we do with bishops. And I think that if God intended for women deacons to be an ordinary occurence, we would be provided with more than ONE example of it in the entire New Testament.

[karpov89]

@JonTheJansenist Just that there is not mentioned in more places in the New Testament does not mean it is not true. Christian faith comes from the Tradition, and there are were indeed female deacons in the early church. 

[JonTheJansenist]

@karpov89 I'm not stating that it isn't true, what I am stating is that it isn't "ordinary". The regular offices that were given for the ordination of women had to do specifically with older women presiding over younger women.

Furthermore, Tradition is not infallible (though it is necessary). The Eastern Church has developed a tradition stating that the Holy Spirit proceeds ONLY from The Father and they cite early fathers. Is that tradition true? Arius was an early figure, was he right?

[97201men]

With the ordination of 4 more women bishops, women are taking back their positions of ministry they had in the early the church. Its time to treat them fair and equal. The movement is growing. Can you see the parallels to the early suffrage movement in this country a 100 yrs ago? It will happen! Mainstream Catholics support fair and equal treatment of women.

[Schezee]

Mary, the Queen of Heaven, is proof that the Church holds women in high esteem. Catholics venerate her. We love her in a deep and profound way.

Your charges are unfounded.

And by the way, the priesthood is a gift from God and not "a right".

And someone who takes something they do not have a right to is the very definition of a thief. These sad women are nothing more than a bunch of heretics.