Science and Mormon Myth at Cahokia

[srsosblue]

Ok, I can understand Mormons wanting to come on here and defend their so-called religion. I am personally adverse to ALL religions because they deny responsibility for the NOW, and choose to keep people living in fear and also living in the past and future. Mormons were quite violent, as most Europeans were, towards the indigenous peoples already living here. Conquerors re-write history, that is what they do.

[srsosblue]

But Mormonism, at it's roots, is a carnival sideshow act. Please explain to me differently, given how a g uy can have a bunch of supposed tablets given to him by an "angel" but won't let anyone else look at them inside the box he kept them in!

[srsosblue]

Seriously, people are so gullible and this is what people that want to dominate other people count upon. We will never evolve until we put this sort of childishness aside and start treating each other as true equals and start spreading unconditional love both for each other and for ALL life on our planet.

[keriscorp]

ok...the narrator seems jaded, and makes verbal. attacks. im not a mormon, but after watching dozens of point/counter point vids, im seeing...LOTS of natives are LDS, elephants were here, hebrew/egyptian/etc. writings, pyramids, mummies, swords, machines, HUGE cities vacant, wheels, "white bearded God will return legends, baptismal fonts, gold plates, and just about EVERYTHING mentioned in the book of mormon, that "antis" deny...SCIENCE seems to PROVE the "MYTH".....debunked...AND I'M CHEROKEE

[cbl2988]

One of your premises is incorrect. The two peoples you are talking about (the Lamenites and Nephites) were actually from the same family that came from Jerusalem. The Nephites were the "superior" race that you were referring to while the Lamenites were the other your incorrectly said was the "native" race. The BOM says that there were even people that were there before them and they weren't the only people there. Pick up a BOM to get your facts right.

[WoWGirl6]

looks like there's 10 mormons who watched this and didn't like it lol

[longfootbuddy]

slavery was justified by the belief that other races were not fully human...an absurd belief, and i find it hard to believe they really believed it...it was probably a false belief that was only talked about so they didnt have to admit they were just tyrants who delighted in the slavery of fellow humans...afterall, we are all still slaves to our fellow man, through government

[IExposeMormonism]

Anyone spending a modicum of time in research will find the BofM is a fraud. The Abraham Papyrus is a bad joke. A common sen-sen text from the book of the dead, Joe didn't just get it wrong. He literally mistranslated every icon/hieroglyph in the papyrus! While statistically significant, it is not divine. believe it or not.

[hammerogod]

If J Smith himself said (declared as a foundational and fundamental Mormon precept) that the great battle between the Nephites and Lamanites was fought at the Hill Cumorah in New York and the Golden Plates were hidden in New York and then found in New York why is Mesoamerica even a factor in Mormon studies? The only possible relevant site is the Hill Cumorah, yet it remains unexcavated ... what am I missing?

[WhiteStarWoman]

As a former Mormon (33yrs) and a Cherokee I thank you for your video. Bravo

[imtherealthing]

You speak in ignorance. You have no proof AGAINST the Book of Mormon just OPINION..we have not discovered enough yet about these ancient americans. There are many theories that say that the indians are not indigenous to the americas..that is what the Book of Mormon claims.. several groups migrated here - that is the Book of Mormon claim - goes against the theories of the time Joseph Smith lived when many believed the indians were indigenous - you lack knowledge to postulate what you do here.

[bigbear6718]

its all in silence now. if a mormon will tell the secrets of the temple, they can be excumunicated, as well as be put to death. Is this a Christian group? I dont think so

[awolLDSasap]

Since it's inception, the lds church has fled from Christianity. It is a religious cult. The church is trying to reverse earlier statements made by its leaders and want to be called Christian today. That's a rediculous claim. Their own doctrines condemn Biblical Christianity. Go figure.

[myway43]

@awolLDSasap O.K , you're entitled to your opinion, but what does this have to do with the subject matter? Troll elsewhere.

[awolLDSasap]

@myway43 Where's the evidence for the BofM? No evidence = fable.

[bigbear6718]

believing in a blind faith, is completely strange. In the bible it teaches to search out what is truth and what it error. I believe the Bereans in the bible were commended because they thought out what they believed. So jumping into a belief system that does not have any logical thought or archeology is utterly stupid, I say that in charaty, and in love.

[DadsBlueAngel]

If you know any such American Mormons, go ahead and give them heck. I'm not arguing that the Book of Mormon is a true history in the sense that Europeans and Middle Eastern Societies can trace history through surviving histories--the Europeans destroyed these.

However, the Missouri extermination order of 1838 coincided with the early trail of tears. Indian/East Asian Mormons use Lamanite for themselves. Groups in the B o Mormon were always waring--if the last survivor was Nephite, so what?

[DadsBlueAngel]

Also, as I remember, dying in battle was considered more honorable than living under domination--so returning the swords of the resident Nephites sounds rather Celtic, doesn't it. And refusing to break ranks with the Indians was the cause of conflict between the Mormons and the Genocidal government. Full and half breed Cherokees were very influential in the early Church. I like some of your other videos, but this one seems a bit insipid.

[awolLDSasap]

the bookofmormon is a product of stolen ideas from the 19th century.

Amazing how byu proffessors are inventing new theories to deceive people. HA!

[bigbear6718]

I totally agree. its amazing they will build so called intellegent doctrine and a belief system on a lie.

I am willing to wager that joseph smith took the belief system of the free masons, and saw there was money to be made, just look at the church today, and made a religion around it. Jesus said in the end times there will be false prophets, and we clearly can see the mormons are some of them. we have mormon doctrine knocking at the main stream churches as well

[awolLDSasap]

Right. They believe in a myth. Just like Puff the magic dragon is a myth.

[tmad890]

interesting video..

[1pt21jigawatt]

Where did this dude get his information? Some people are drawn to conspiracies like flies to feces.

[bigbear6718]

your diluted mr 1pt21

[InReasonWeTrust]

Finally flex, if the Book of Mormon says nothing about US native peoples, why was the Book of Mormon found in New York state?

And to the point here, Maya civilization is Native American civilization. It is not a forgotten Middle Eastern colony based on all the material evidence that can be brought to bear on the question.

[kadashkushaiah7]

InReasonWeTrust

I disagree with Mormons on certain things. But The Maya did come from the East. The word Maya is Hebrew for Water, Mayan is Hebrew for Spring Well(fountain)., Maya are the tribe of Zebulun(gen 49:13)

At 0:09 that statue is actually the Egyptian Goddess Isis nursing her son Horus.

That proves that the Cahokia are originally from the East.

[Michael0VCSU]

I too believe in ancient interaction between American culture and the east.

that being said, the mother/infant motif is common around the world and although I would like to get excited about it, I think we need more evidence.

[stevejames1012]

@InReasonWeTrust You say that "mormons" believe that the people now known as Native Americans were not the same people as in ancient times. This is not the case. LDS people believe that the Native Americans are descendents from the Book of Mormon people. If you had ever read the Book of Mormon, you would know that.

[InReasonWeTrust]

There were no "major catastrophic events" around the time of Christ. Nor do we have any such events recorded from then in Maya history or in the paleo record of caves, sediments, pollen or otherwise.

The so-called "tree of life" is found in many cultures that occurred where tree grew. Such patterns say nothing about cross-oceanic travel prior to Columbus.

[ricsta001]

@InReasonWeTrust , hey man do you even know what your talking about?

the "tree of life" was dream or vision that one of the prophets had in the book of mormon.

and what does that have to do with travel?

[anisuthideyakoindu]

@InReasonWeTrust wrong! there IS lots of scientific evidence for it! re source!

[InReasonWeTrust]

Flexmasterfunk. I have seen the font-like structure you refer to in one undeveloped dry cenote of northern Yucatan. There is no reason to believe that such vessels were used in a Christian/Mormon sense prior to 1500, even if they existed before then, which may or may not be true. Also, you need to read Bishop Landa with his perspective and politics in mind. Frescos and sculptures clearly show that the indigenous Maya created that culture, not some mythical and superior race of white people.

[flexmasterfunk]

Babtisimal fonts found in mesoamerican temples, the Book of Mormon peoples using the exact same calander units as the mayans, the tree of life on mayan temples, major catostrophic events around the time of christ recorded in the book of mormon in mesoamerica etc.!! are some of the many archaeological evidences of the Book of Mormon!

The Book of Mormon doesn't refer to the native americans, rather, mainly just the mayan civilization!

[gatoverde66]

why u sying make no sense book of mormon is fake

[InReasonWeTrust]

There is no statement in the Book of Mormon that would lead anyone to believe Jos S. was referring to the Maya. Rumors were wild at that time of ancient lost cities in North and South America and the discoveries of the expeditions of John Lloyd Stephens and Benjamin Norman in Yucatan were not published until 1840-1844, long after Joseph Smith wrote his book. The Book of Mormon simply refers to what was common knowledge then, that there had been pre-contact civilizations in the Americas.

[ricsta001]

@InReasonWeTrust do you even know where the maya or Cahokia aka native americans come from? and if we were a racist religion and joseph smith was not a prophet of God, why would he even write good things about the lamanites in the book of mormon who are the ancestors of the native americans, as far as I know no racist would ever say anything good about their opposite colors. why dont you try reading the book of mormon first before jumping the gun and assuming things?

[FC275]

InReasonWeTrustL just to comment on your statements at 0:54 to 1:24 min

I've taken Astronomy, biology, anthro (phys & cult) & archeology (classroom & 3 semesters of field studies(weekend digs)) classes

during astronomy class, I started to wonder about the "spark" that started the Big Bang

during anthro class, I found it hard to believe that we would twiddle our thumbs for 75k years w that big brain of ours (100k years of modern man), stone-age for 2 m years, then all of a sudden ag/civ? why?

[InReasonWeTrust]

Good questions. Many of the apparent jerks in human pre-history have been linked to radical changes in climate. We adapted to a new environment and set course on a new pathway. Prior to ca 10000 yrs ago we were making tools, hunting and socializing with little time for twiddling.

Wonderment about the universe or our history does not mean there is no material explanation that can be tested through science. When we discover answers, we pose new wonderful questions, such as the ones you asked.

[JCPUTT]

Hi Mr/Mrs Reason: You sure know how to lay the ink down. But this old goat ain't the sharpest knife

in the drawer so I have you as not accepting the BoM as true history. If so, you may not be familiar

with real ancient (2 millenia BC) transoceanic navigation. You know of course that where the Tigris

and Euphrates Rivers meet the Tower of Babel was built and these two guys Jared and his brother

got a group together put down there trowels and took off for the Americas. It's in the book!

[JCPUTT]

Here I continue: The BoM has trees all the same height back then. BoM says God told Jared & Co.

to build 9 wooden tubes as long "as a tree is tall" load 'em up with people, cattle and poultry and

bob in the ocean for 364 days and they all ended up in the now Central America. True!! Look:

Native Americans were Aztec, Mayan and Inca when adding the letters we have 14. The same

number of letters in Jared's sister-in-law's maiden name "Panderquillcan".....PROOF!

[bigbear6718]

I would rather read a commentary of the bible and fall a sleep than read at best plagerised religious fiction.

[JCPUTT]

@bigbear6718 D'ja notice that screwball religious stuff that was used

to scare the crap out of suckers no longer happens? Why? holy/hustlers

can be spotted in a heartbeat today.

[Humbertusmarius]

Very good video.

[JCPUTT]

Mormon and his kid Moroni engraved the truth

on gold plates for a flaky kid to translate

1400 years later. C'mon now! Don't that make

more sense than geological or scientific

evidence to the contrary? Why do you think

Native Americans don't eat ham? They come

from Hebrews who landed here in 500BC. Proof!!

[monkinator66]

hahaha! i had breakfast with my mescalero apache friend not long ago.  I BELIEVE he had HAM & eggs.

[danielnz1]

Mormons are another off-shoot of the 3 abrahamic religions and all illogical bullshit!

I was a mormon as a child only, as an adult a logical humanist.

[myway43]

@danielnz1 but the sprak that the Heavenly Father gave you still is in your soul, otherwise you would not be watching this huh? Think about it?

[Laimtoe]

This is a good vidoe.

[Turandot29]

The mormon authorities are gradually backing away from the belief that ancient amerindians were Hebrews. Just recently (2007), they changed the intro to the Book of Mormon by ONE significant word. Today's mormons are not so much racist as just ignorant; they blindly follow their leaders.

[Rhonda9]

Great point about cultures/worldviews.

Religion has always rewritten history to suit their agenda. Sadly.

[Marburg72]

What specifically did the Mormons say that you disagree with? I hear your objection, but I do not understand what you object to??? Please explain.

My only guess is that you do not agree that there could be any connection with ancient cultures from anywhere else in the world. Perhaps you are angry about the "Burrows cave" or "Michigan Relics"?

[Elaina43]

Mitt wouldn't touch THIS with a 10 foot pole - even while wearing his freedom underpants (see MarkDayComedy to get that reference)!

[nadiaTeeze]

Not only should known facts not be disregarded.. If no facts are know,.. people shouldn't make crap up.

Great vid!!

[bigbear6718]

ya I agree totally. to put faith in a scripture system that bases it on reformed ancient egyptian and believe in it with out reservation and call the bible week and a lie,hmmm I wonder where the lie really is.

[kurtilein3]

a great video, really interesting. i dont really know a lot about mormons, but their belief-system appears to be extremely messed up.

how would you compare mormons and jehovas witnesses? i see lots of similarities.

[NemoUtopian]

very simular in power structure and methodology.but i am unfamilor with any shared theological diffrences from she more popular protastant and catholic theologies

[chronoblip]

If I may provide a spot where significant contrasts are made between Biblical, Mormon and Jehovas Witness beliefs are compared side-by-side with actual referenced quotes:

4witness . or g / mormon / jwldschr . ph p

Please note that these are actual quotes and not hearsay or rumor being compared side by side.

[hellshade2]

blind faith in religion does just that and many other things irwt