Lol I love all you guys. Hail satan every day. You guys are so awesome satan brothers, fighting your fellow man its sooo amazing. Kill infants, I'm serious its amazing.
~~~~~~~~ You want abortion to stop & have a possible one MILLION kids up for adoptiong a year??? Thats 80 MILLIOn kids in your frickin lifetime!! Are you insane?? Why not love the kids more than you hate abortion, dumbass.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Reaponsible according to WHOSE rules of responsibility? Yours? Sorry sweetie, your not the frickin judge of whats responsible or whats not for all the people of the world... get over your damned self!!
~~~~~~~~~~ LOLOl, billions of people have sex everyday w/ no unwanted pregnancies, and here YOU are wanting sex to stop....just in case? Honey, thats not a fear of pregnancy, thats a fear of human sexuality. get help for your problem!!
@vivashira Planned Parenthood provides women and girls with qualified medical professionals to carry out safe procedures to females who are desperate in their predicaments. It helps the prevention of these females harming themselves or producing unwanted offspring who won't be cared for properly. Our society faces serious issues like child abuse, infanticide, neglect, abandonment, poverty...Abortion, though not glamorous, gives people an opportunity to prevent more unwanted people.
@loathedandabhorred "Abortion, though not glamorous, gives people an opportunity to prevent more unwanted people" by murdering those unwanted people. Wow. So if I'm unwanted by the guy next door, he can just shoot me. No problem, huh? Please try to think straight. You are supporting the murder of innocent human beings.
@prolifepinay I'm supporting women's rights. If you think that's a bad thing that's your problem. Aborting a fetus is not equal to shooting somone, get your head on straight. Why should a woman produce a kid she doesn't want, can't or won't care for? Try to think of the poor unwanted kid. And don't say anyone who has sex should have to produce unwanted people simply because they have sex, there's no sense in that.
@prolifepinay says: So if I'm unwanted by the guy next door, he can just shoot me
~~~~~~~~~ What in the hell is wrong with you nitwits who equate the "man next door" with a god damned unknown entity with the consciousness level of an earthworm??? you clearly fall too short in your capacity for principle-level and abstract thinking to debate this matter
@loathedandabhorred In 1973, we were told that there'd be less crime. The prison population rate has increased 700%. We now build more prisons than colleges. I was alive then, and can tell you, it's much worse. See, everything is disposable. It's the 70s "me first" that has spun out of control. Everything that was supposed to get better didn't. We had absolutes, and families. Was it perfect? No, but a lot better than now. I pity the young people nowadays, and am sorry for this legacy.
@rousse61 "In 1973 we were told that there'd be less crime. The prison population rate has increased 700%. We now build more prisons than colleges..Everything that was supposed to get better didn't." Yes, so much $ goes to keeping criminals incarcerated, for one thing, that other areas--education, medical care, etc. suffers for it. Everything IS disposable these days, and we need to look at the root of the problem. Fighting for MORE unwanted people is the last thing anyone should suggest
@loathedandabhorred "It helps the prevention of these females harming themselves or producing unwanted offspring who won't be cared for properly."
Uhhh... depends on your definition of "cared for properly." And by your logic, I should be able to go to Africa and kill all the poor children there. Hardly any of them are cared for properly, most are orphans, and none of them are wanted.
Furthermore... infanticide = abortion. It's just done before the victim gets to even see the light of day.
@amanda2324 "And by your logic, I should be able to go to Africa and kill all the poor children there." By MY logic? Well aparently you're not a very logical thinker, are you? Because I suggested nothing of the sort. Your inability to differentiate between born individuals and undeveloped, unconscious, unfeeling, unknowing fetuses shows your own ignorance on the topic. That's like claiming that boiling an egg is as cruel as boiling a live chicken. Go educate yourself a little.
@amanda2324 "Hardly any of them are cared for properly, most are orphans, and none of them are wanted."
Umm, duhhh, and do you see how tragic this is??? Do you honestly think that denying women rights over their bodies and lives, and aiming for a lower standard of living in developed countries, will be of benefit to ANYONE AT ALL? In places where women don't have access to abortions, there are more unwanted kids, more orphans, more kids starving, etc. Try thinking before you type dumb shit!
@loathedanabhorred Just because they're unwanted doesn't mean we should kill them. That's a very dumb reason. I can tell you're rather uneducated and immoral... And if the woman wants control over her "body," then she can do the abortion herself. Otherwise, she has no control when an abortion is performed, because she's not doing anything. The doctors are. If the doctors don't want to do it, I guess all the women are out of luck, huh? Unless you agree with enslaving doctors, of course...
@amanda2324 says: nd if the woman wants control over her "body," then she can do the abortion herself. Otherwise, she has no control when an abortion is performed, because she's not doing anything. The doctors are.
~~~~~~~~~
Im going to post this little bit of absurdity in the CS forum, where the adults debate..they will love it.
@amanda2324 "And if the woman wants control over her "body," then she can do the abortion herself."
In countries where abortion is illegal, many women resort to doing abortions themselves or by unsafe meeans. Many die from them or are seriously injured. What an intelligent suggestion, that we should aim to live in 3rd world conditions where people have LESS rights, live in WORSE conditions. I bet you have more intelligent things to say!! :P
@amanda2324 says: And by your logic, I should be able to go to Africa and kill all the poor children there.
~~~~~~~~~~ What? When you start worrying about non human beings, you descend into irrational, psychotic nonsense. Do you have ANY idea how disturbed that thinking is? Its like being obsessed with aliens from outer space! You have irrationally connected with something that dosent even come close to being a part of our human beingness. Its a sick fetal obsession w/ NO sense of reality
~~~~~~~~~~~~ Youre a LIAR ( as all prolifers are). Embryos and fetuses are not infants. Whats the matter ..did pro choice take all the truths to make abortion legal and all you have left to work with are lies? Keep up the good work. Prochoice thanks you
@Sueezee1 Come on, that was an extremely weak refutation. The Father of Modern Genetics says it IS a baby, an infant. Science is against you on this one. You know, science meaning intelligence and knowledge - you're a very ignorant person from what little I've seen of you.
@Sueezee1 I'm sorry, but I gave you scientific facts. And saying "oh well, it's legal!" Doesn't make it right. It was illegal for women to vote, even though it was okay - having slaves was legal, even though that was not okay. Please come up with some REAL reasons and logic, please!
@amanda2324 says"I'm sorry, but I gave you scientific facts
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Biology/ Science has NOTHING to do with the issue of legal abortion. Its about rights of people,the law, the 5th, 9th, 13th, & 14th Amendments,The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, The Supreme Court, social custom and necessity, & Roe v. Wade & NO science
@Sueezee1 I've read them, and none of them are logical or real reasons. Can you not come up with better refutations? All you do is mock, act immature, and hide behind things.
@amanda2324 vomits: Science is against you on this one. You know, science meaning intelligence and knowledgeyou're a very ignorant person
~~~~~~~
hahahahah... Science did NOT define a baby or a child AND, you dumbass, since when does science means intelligence & knowledge? LOLOl, science IS thestudy of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment. A baby can do that! Ya, lets talk about WHO is "ignorant! LOLOL
@amanda2324 says: The Father of Modern Genetics says it IS a baby, an infant. Science is against you on this one.
~~~~~~~~~~ LOLOL, even though science had nothing to do with defining "baby" it woldnt matter if it did!! Abortion is about rights of people,the law, the 5th, 9th, 13th, & 14th Amendments,The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, The Supreme Court, social custom and necessity, & Roe v. Wade & NO SCIENCE! Thanks for helping me make YOU look ignorant!
@amanda2324 hey Amanda, darling...why did you avoid responding to my comment regarding you having the right to kill anyone you want? Why havent you responded to ANY of my comments?? LOLO,, Ya we ALL know why!! By the way, im done with you..its like debating a 10 yr old.
@Sueezee1 Oh, so you are only 10 years old, huh? Then I suppose you need to wait a little while and do some growing up, hun. You are rather immature for a 10 year old.
@amanda2324 Oh, so you are only 10 years old, huh?
~~~~~~~~~~ yes, a Im 10 and isnt it amzzing that MY young ideas mesh with the laws that make abortion legal and yours cant make it illegal?? hey sweetie, Im still waiting on you to respond to my comments. It must feel like hell to be outsmarted by a 10 yr old..lololol
Can you believe that they say its not a baby? You can clearly see its a baby! And let me ask this to all the pro abortionists murderers out there-if its not a baby-then wth is it? I know its not an alien! And the whole "its a mass of cells" gimic-well let me tell you something-were all a bunch of cells and it doesnt stop us from being human!
Nice propaganda film! Well, the problem would be solved if PP didn't have to deal with the crazies picketing in front of their clinics, threatening and intimidating the women that go in. It's their choice. No one can be forced into a pregnancy.
BUT! Given the constant attacks on the right to chose right now, and given the massive amount of lies from the anti-choice camp, it's becoming quite ridiculous, really. Don't attack women's rights. Stop the war on women.
@skulander2 Propaganda? That is what PP does. They lie to women about their pregnancies in order to perform more abortions. That is where their profit comes from. They push abortion on women. Only 6 out of 1000 women who went to PP were referred to adoption agencies. Those numbers don't add up. Woman's rights should not infringe on a child's right to life regardless of gestation or age. Women CHOOSE to have sex. Don't pull the rape argument either. Less than 1% are for that reason.
@Heatcho hahaha!You are so right! Its all convenience issues-they always pull the rape card or medical card-but Ive seen it time and time again where the Dr goes in and performs a life saving procedure to the mother and child BOTH. There is no arguement here-its just a bunch of wimps that dont know how to handle their own life-so they dont want to take care of someone else-pure selfishness. I say ban abortion-make it a law to throw the people in prison for murder of an unborn child!
They also put out info telling kids it's OK to have sex if you are HIV positive and you don't have to tell anybody and they are against any law stating that you do have to tell. Do you people want to thank them for that too. I myself would like to know if the person i'm about to have sex with or my kid is about to have sex with, I would like to know if they have HIV!
This is pretty weak for a supposed "investigation of the lies". I mean, there's nothing devastating here. If that's all you could turn up, well it shows they're doing a good job. Planned Parenthood FTW!
@Steve7508 They also put out info telling kids it's OK to have sex if you are HIV positive and you don't have to tell anybody and they are against any law stating that you do have to tell. Do you people want to thank them for that too. I myself would like to know if the person i'm about to have sex with or my kid is about to have sex with, I would like to know if they have HIV!
i'd just like to thank planned parenthood for all the awesome information they gave me regarding my choices beside abortion and for pretty much saving my life. You guys are amazing!
i think irresponsible adults contribute to higher abortion and adoption rates yes these are both ugly topics but in some cases if people used protection,birth control or whatever means to avoid even having to contemplate an abortion its just not fair unborn babies have no right it has to suffer for the acts of irresponsible adults
Regardless of all this- Abortion has never been a pretty thing- It is a last ditch attempt to deal with the end result of a sexual encounter that is usually not wanted. Sure- in a perfect world "we" could all have our babies that are born out of wedlock- result of rape-incest- no birth control- no self control etc- put them up for adoption to loving families. But it is not a perfect world- 15 year olds are not prepared to have children and the adoption process is a crap shoot. Abortion=reality
Whether you agree with them or not technically the medical definition is that the future child isn't considered to be a baby but rather a fetus (to distinguish it from a live baby that has been born).
Regarding the heart you're correct that at 3 weeks we have the beginning of a heart beat but medics make a distinction between the early weak heartbeats and the later ones that are more in line with a mature heart
The first woman speaking isn't a doctor so she might just be misinformed
@OrbisFerrum Abortion sorta follows from Godless atheism rammed down kid's throats today; we're all just a random purposeless bag of goo floating around doing whatever, I'm ok you're ok ,....whatEVER !! Buy into that crap and before ya know it, the state will be declaring BORN ppl bags of goo that need to GO !! Wise up and smell the crap !! People are GOOD for all of us...when ppl go bad we put them in JAIL !! But unless they've killed someone they get to KEEP their lives.
@finishstrongdoc Calling atheism godless is redundant. Beyond that your argument devolves into a slippery slope combined with a generous helping of good old paranoia and a little Godwin's law for good measure.
Rather than spend time debunking your whole statement I'm just going to suggest that if you find rationalism and science to be crap then by all means get off that computer, cut off that electricity and stop taking any and all medication.
I will NOT turn off my electricity, because I believe GOOD things happen when ppl INNOVATE, and LEARN from nature's God. MORE ppl MORE innovation, get it? So far,I've used the computer to do GOOD, tho I've been tempted.Aristotle said learning from nature brings order in our lives.Abundance is a survival strategy.The wealthy West has LESS ability to help the EMERGING third world since we started aborting.Sorta aborting the world for the sake of short-term wealth. Not working.Failing.Not on drugs.
@finishstrongdoc Without appropriate, rational definitions a lot of the technology you see today isn't possible. If it offends you that to some extent medical science regards an embryo as basically a mass of goo then that's your problem. Physically that's what we all are.
Re: more people = more innovation argument can easily be countered by more people = more evil. The only thing more people produces for sure is more people, don't make assumptions.
@O Colson's Law:The less conscience controls our community,the more cops we need to prevent chaos. Your conscience has become dulled thru sin,& promoting abortion&hEscR creates more dulled consciences&more chaos in the community.Despite BHO's mantra"We are the generation we have been waiting for", it turns out the "we" is still the same old "me" generation,because the "me" is hating on the "we" thru abortion&hEscR.Lawless,selfish union thugs spread hate and chaos in WI&cops ignore it=more chaos
@finishstrongdoc I never indicated that I either did or did not support abortion. I do however support using the appropriate terminology in the appropriate circumstance and that was the substance of it.
Since I have not spoken of anything relating to my conscience you are in no position to make any determination regarding it. You've basically been incoherently ranting and preaching and fighting against a rather elaborate straw man.
I'm sure you have better uses of your time. So do I.
@O You are obviously an absurdist. You have been schooled by the gov't. Sue your teachers.
"Life must be lived forward, but can only be learned backward." ~Soren Kirkegard~ Danish Philosopher
Anything anyone says comes from an internal source, caslled conscience. I respond to your consciece's demands as do you, unless you deny conscience's existence.
re: miracles - that there are unexplained events that occur is certain, there's a lot that science still can't explain. But from there to state there that automatically it's divine isn't objective at all. It's a faith based determination.
The way you use the term objective in general is also entirely suspect.
What I must or must not be is unknown to you so whatever you can assume I am or am not is entirely in your head. You are not God, you do not know me and cannot judge me.
@O If a person cannot be judged by the thoughts he expresses, then it must be assumed that the person takes no measure of others by their thoughts, either. How is it possible, then, to believe ANYTHING is sincerely stated? Are all men autonomous? Then WHY have governments, laws, mores, schools, churches,marriages,friends? Your philosophy is showing..and it is dangerous..created for you by your gov't teachers,who themselves were taught by those who know how to manipulate events through deception.
@finishstrongdoc You're reaching. I agree that a person should be judged on his or her merits but you really have nothing to go by at all so you're making a lot of assumptions. You assume x,y ,z because what, I didn't outright praise and agree with the premise of the video?
For someone so obsessed with conformity you yourself seem to expect a lot of it from everyone. We disagree it doesn't make me a nihilist or an absurdist but your responses do make you a zealot and that is far more dangerous.
@O I love freedom. My future freedom depends on the conformity of others to a moral conscience based on the highest and best principles men have discovered or have had revealed to them. Thoughts have trajectories. Words have objective meanings. Manipulation of words to the ends of manipulating men is not only possible, but probable, and even proven to happen. It is right to praise and condemn; how else can man make order exist in his life? Love of law & order presupposes love of Peace.
@O To relegate the miraculous events in history to mere unimportance in the history of humankind is, at best, very foolish, at worst,dangerously criminal. Miracles should be properly assigned and interpreted. Uniqueness requires categorization. Categorization requires logic. Logic defines sanity. Sanity defines harmony. Harmony defines our happiness. Happiness ensures peace. Peace can only be achieved by loving the Unique, Peaceful, Purposeful, One who does miracles out of Love for Man.
Miracle: A miracle is an unexpected event attributed to divine intervention.
An event occurring is historically important by definition.
That being said just because the event occurred does not make its source divine intervention (a necessary requirement for it to be considered a miracle). I'm not saying the events are unimportant I'm saying there's no basis for calling them miracles outside of faith int divine intervention but that cannot by definition be proved objectively.
@O You are the one who is reaching. It is beneficial to assign miracles to Divinity because God has purpose behind every miracle. Men can live lives directed toward ignoble ends; God doesn't want His creation, especially His greatest creation, man, to have an ignoble end. He has reached out to men in spectacular ways, only to be assigned to be Someone only zealots can follow. This is absurd, and dangerous, and has an evil source and trajectory. Thoughts have consequences.
@klumzie89 Check out the Clio's freebirth video too. Midwives at home, and even hospitals are right for some people, but one thing the freebirth people are distinctly good for is overcoming the fear-of-giving-birth that has been so falsely ingrained in so many women.
Single cell organisms don't have heart beats or brains but we do not deny they are alive. We have no more or less importance than them and are just as integral too life on earth. Whether one cell or millions...Life is life.
I wish I could adopt one of these unwanted children, but sadly the expense is so great, that there are so many other couples who get the opportunity before us because they can promise the children more. More funds, money, and things I may never be able to provide aside from good morals and stability. It hurts to see people feel they have no way out, when there are so many of us standing here begging to be your way out. Just open your local news paper and see.
@2PainGah Ask yourself this question, there are millions of children in this world that needs a home but your mother choose to get pregnant and have you. Why didn't she adopt?
@jmatassa PP told a friend of mine. Before that it's just a blob of tissue a group of cells all bunched up together. And it feels no pain at all. Plus it still has no heart or brain you know.
@TatianaSword NO sweetie.. life does NOT begin at 7 months gestation.. It begins at conception.. and the heart beats as early as 2 weeks.. at 10 weeks hands and feet are formed.. Point Blank BABY is alive and well when that sperm hits the egg.. not 7 months !
For goodness sake, that woman's answer about when "it becomes a baby" wasn't even consistent with the doctor's! They can't even decide if it's a baby at 7 months or at the point of birth! Anyway, I was told as a teen that as soon as a BABY is conceived, he or she already has a soul AND A FUTURE!!!
I have to assume your group is pro-life. A FACT that most Pro-choice supporters understand, and one this physician explains: Week 24 ( a women's 2nd trimester) "with intensive medical attention some babies born this week MAY be able to survive" (mayoclinic). The pseudo patient in this video has passed the in-take process (where adoption and parenting would be discussed), so I'm not sure what your video reveals. Manipulation of footage into modern day propaganda to support your pro-life views?
I have to assume your group is pro-life. A FACT that most Pro-choice supporters understand, and one this physician explains: Week 24 ( a women's 2nd trimester) "with intensive medical attention some babies born this week MAY be able to survive" (mayoclinic). The pseudo patient in this video has passed the in-take process (where adoption and parenting would be discussed), so I'm not sure what your video reveals. Manipulation of footage into modern day propaganda to support your pro-life views?
It's not the same talking about weeks of embryos life than weeks of pregnancy. There are always 2 weeks of difference (time that gives the "pillo of the next day" to act). The counselor is talking about pregnancy time (7 weeks), which is in real embryos' life 5 weeks (equivalent to the 4.5 embryo of the video). So they're not lying.
I really find it dishonest when the counselor says that the baby is not a baby until birth and then the doctor says the baby is not a baby until 6 months. Plus the nurse says the baby is viable at 17 weeks, yet it's apparently not a baby then. Then you speak to pro-choicers who say that baby's arent viable until 24weeks to the 7th month, but you can easily walk into a NICU and see 22 week preemies, and my daughter was born at 28 weeks. Does anyone see the lies here?
@retownsend By saying: "I don't want to be examined." Despite the creepy audio, no woman is forced to do an abortion." And calling a fetus a fetus is not manipulation and it is not a lie. It is a medical term. If a girl asks to get an abortion and the doctor tells her: we'll murder your baby, as this vid puts it, that would be manipulation.
@MARGARELON The medically/scientifically false information that Planned Parenthood gives is in relation to when the human heart starts beating.
"no woman is forced to do an abortion"
Research data suggest that many women are forced into abortions by abusive boyfriends, etc. There have even been a couple cases of women killed this year by the child's father when they refused to have an abortion at his request.
@LiveActionFilms Yes, you can find a black shep everywhere, I suppose.
However, you are probably right about the abusive partners. But the topic of this vid is the practice of an organisation, so individual abuse outside the law is beside the point, don't you agree?
@MARGARELON Sure there are black sheep everywhere but our student team has now released video from 12 Planned Parenthood clinics that either show sexual abuse cover-up or the giving of medically false information. That sounds like a lot of black sheep which makes the case, maybe the sheep are black because the shepherd is too.
@LiveActionFilms Possible. Which video is that? Of course, a quick search showed me, there are 840 Planned Parenthood centers in the US, so 12 cases seems still not THAT much to me. I have no dout, most of this peoples are - like most peoples - driven by money and maybe try any legal means to increase the abortion rates. And the "false informations" in this vid were mostly not false. A fetus is a fetus, women die during birth.
@MARGARELON This video talks about false information AND manipulation. Some of it is verbal manipulation that may not be factually incorrect but the use of it in the manner that is used is suspect.
12 clinics is a lot for our small student group to find having issues. If they are representative of the rest...there are a lot of problems at Planned Parenthood. The clinics were also spread across many states. You can give us a donation at our website so we can investigate more.
It’s around I think the 8th or 9th week, that you can hear the heartbeat.
That is correct information. The actual heartbeat may start after 22 days as you say, but the mother can hear it only after 8 weeks.
You ask about the abortion pictures, and ask “are they like real babies”, so the counselor answers no, because they see 10 weeks old fetuses not as babies.
@MARGARELON The heartbeat can be heard at about the 6th week and clearly observed before that. The question is, why does the Planned Parenthood staffer fail to answer the question? Why is Planned Parenthood not answering the question of women seeking their counsel?
Also, we do not claim that every statement they make is a direct lie, some a just manipulative.
@LiveActionFilms A woman, thinking about abortion should not ask peoples, who make a living from abortion, I give you that. She should ask a neutral doctor.
It is possible, that Planned Parenthood is manipulative. All I say is, there are other posiible explantions for those answers. You ask with the intention to reveal manipulation. The counselor tries to soothe the worries of a young girl in a difficult situation. Her intentions might be benevolent.
@MARGARELON While someone may have benevolent intentions, it is not loving to give someone less than the truth when they ask for it. Would it be ok for doctors treating cancer to falsely tell patents that they have a 99% chance of living when that is not the case? If people want false comfort able medical realities, they should not be getting these false comforts from the medical profession.
@LiveActionFilms Yes, I agree. But calling a fetus a fetus and not a person or a baby, is not false information. Telling the woman, that an early abortion is safer for the woman than a birth is not false information. Telling her, that an early abortion is easier and cheaper is not false information.
@MARGARELON Actually, you're wrong. Calling a fetus a fetus and not a real person IS completely false information! It IS a live human being! Telling a woman that an early abortion is safer for a woman than birth IS completely false information! How is slaughtering an innocent child in cold blood for convenience "safe"? Telling her that an early abortion is easier and cheaper IS completely false information! What price do you put on a human life??? Abortion IS the cold blooded murder of a child!
@cjeb2003 Your opinion. When does human life start? If a fetus is a person, why not an embryo? Why not a spermatozoon? Do I kill millions of people, when I have sex? Sometimes a mother dies, while giving birth. Sometimes both, mother and child die. In that case, an abortion SAVES one life. Don't fall for slogans.
@LiveActionFilms Your right, I was able to put a stethescope to my belly and hear my daughters heartbeat at that time. It was really neat. Clearly PPL does use a lot of dishonesty and manipulation. There are a lot of holes in their argument. You can tell from my comment before.
abortion will never be illegal, get over it. Woman have choices and will always have choices. If you're not going to raise the kid she's aborting, don't worry about it. Practice what you preach. Don't believe in abortions? Don't have one. But don't try to instill your ancient beliefs on others. xoxo
I can't believe that if a pregnant woman gets murdered, the killer gets charged on TWO counts of murder (the woman AND the baby growing inside of her)...and yet abortion is not considered illegal, why?! Must be because of the choice of the woman, right? But the killer made the choice to take away the life of the woman and baby....what's the difference???
The choice that should have been made would be to abstain from rutting like a dog in one night stands, casual sex fully knowing it could end in pregnancy. But hey, no problem, just kill it if it grows. When conception occurs, new life begins. That life is human. That is a scientific fact. . Killing it is killing a human being. When woman buy into that choice to murder their "fetus" (which is means a developing humna) they will damage their souls for decades. Abortion kills human beings.
@DeblerQueen It's pretty dense of you to assume that every woman caught in the predicament of an unwanted pregnancy is a whore. Many women can't take on another human life, many women can hardly care for their own selves never mind the responsibility of a child. It's often a heartwrenching decision with a lot of thought and consideration put into it, there's no need to criticize a woman who has "damaged her soul" or lives with the anguish of having made such a choice.
@loathedandabhorred Having been there, we shouldn't be in a sham of a "relationship" with someone who can give a rip about us. We deserve better than the way we've been duped into believing we should be physically involved at the wrong time in our lives. It does nothing positive for us, and trips us up. I am now 50, and look back on regrets. Is that why we are here? Which dog are we feeding?
@loathedandabhorred So... as long as I put a lot of thought and consideration, and it's extremely heart wrenching, I can murder anyone I want, right? Or more specifically, my mom could murder me? That's stupid.
@amanda2324 "So... as long as I put a lot of thought and consideration, and it's extremely heart wrenching, I can murder anyone I want, right? Or more specifically, my mom could murder me? That's stupid."
You are right, that IS stupid. Hahaha, YOU said it, not me. :)
@amanda2324 says: as long as I put a lot of thought and consideration, and it's extremely heart wrenching, I can murder anyone I want, right? Or more specifically, my mom could murder me?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Youre ass can murder anyone you chose to murder. Whats your point?
@loathedandabhorred But those women who naively assume there are no other options, but to murder their child, would be surprised to know that there are organizations that can help save both the lives of the unborn babies & take them in as well off the mother's hands. However, if some women know there about these other options - such as adoption, etc - and yet STILL choose to kill their unborn babies - there is no justification for their actions. None at all.
@EmilyGreene1984 Women don't have to resort to "killing their child" if they can't care for it or don't want it, they can choose not to produce that child in the first place. That's where abortions come in. Many women DO NOT want to produce more people, and no one should even think about forcing them to do so, how disgusting. If you can't comprehend why women would choose abortions, maybe you should talk to some of these women instead of judging the lot of them in blind ignorance.
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Well, I don't think there will ever be a lack of children in this world...but maybe a lack of reason.
I think we should all forego birth control and have 19 children! Give all unwanted children life! Does it matter if their mother can't support them or love them properly? No! Let's just put them all in an orphanage and hope they don't spend the first 18 yrs of their life stuck there! Hmm...makes sense to me!
i have 2 unplanned children i love them more than anything, but if the situation would have been different like i was raped, or the pregancy was ectopic, or there was a serious birth defect i would mo have an abortion. the planned parenthood staff never lied they just spoke in medical terms. if you think they were cold you should see how cold doctors are when they tell you you're dieing from cancer.
lets say they make abortion illegal, what other options are there.most women who have abortions live in proverty so if they keep it, odds are, the baby will probably grow up to be a criminal having been born into poverty. adoption is a good,but there are so many unwanted children who spend their lives in the system.
I have and am raising two unplanned children, THEY ARE MY entire world...the thought of abortion, and the lies told to women : make me so angry. So disappointing that humans can treat one another this way.
How can these doctors go back to their homes,and be loving. Be wholesome.
never did i question, if i wanted to KILL a/my CHILD.I suppose a women can do whatever they please with theirbody, and their babys,
I don't see how this is 'shocking.' There are no outright lies or medical misinfo in this, it's just fudging semantics. Pro-lifers say "baby" pro-choicers say "fetus." And it *is* medically a fetus, and you could call it a baby too if you want, and you can call cardiac activity before fetus viability a 'heartbeat' or whatever they called it here I forgot. Of course they're going to lean toward less humanizing terms, b/c well...it's an abortion clinic. I fail to see how this is ~breaking news~
Agreed. Also, I'd like to point out that in the beginning of this video (around 1:15) the creators are trying to make a point that they can hear a heart beat starting at 7 weeks. Frankly, I'm not impressed with this weak point. It's a little funny they use this as fuel on the fire. The baby couldn't possibly live outside the womb on its own for months yet anyway. If the mothers life is in danger it's going to cost thousands of dollars to keep this fetus alive. I'd hardly call that a "baby."
Yeah, and since this fetus cannot live outside the womb, we should be free to kill it. Cuz, like, when its a fetus, its not really a human yet. Right? Its just a zit on some female uterus. And who knows what it may become.
And frankly I am not impressed by your weak point about mother's lives being in danger, since, you know, the only danger the vast majority of aborting mother's are in usually comes down to not being able to fit in their skinny jeans anymore.
Is that supposed to be funny? These mothers aren't fit for motherhood. My heart aches for the children growing up in broken homes where they aren't loved and are denied the basics of life. It happens too often. And no, I don't think abortion should be a form of birth control - there's already an obvious lack of personal responsibility in America. (Idiots having multiple abortions need to be shot)
It's called pro-CHOICE because women have a choice. But that doesn't mean it's an easy choice.
Like "toddler" and "adolescent," the terms "embryo" and "fetus" do not refer to nonhumans, but to humans at particular stages of development. They all have a beating heart (whether its a heart "beat" or heart "tone") and measurable brain waves.
Bruce Springsteen - Dancing In The Dark playing in background,,,, how apropos for someone who rips a baby apart. "this guns for hire even if we're just dancin in the dark"
"Stay on the streets of this town and they'll be carving you up alright "
listen to classical music while pregnant will make your child more intelligent. If the baby is not human, how can the music have any effect on him/her. Parents fighting is bad for babies in the womb. These are facts.
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I can't believe people still believe that that's a human inside. Well i guess when you have to much time on your hands i guess it's ok to march with the Religious Right.
armdestroyers of course an unborn baby is a human being. If you have never seen an abortion then click to the link to the website on my page. Slavery was outlawed in America because in a free country people cannot own other human beings, and abortion will be outlawed because in a free country unborn children cannot be killed. We are all supposed to have the right to LIFE, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If abortion isn't killing a human being, then how come we never see it?
The man is offering a legal medical procedure -- in the video, he is answering the questions of a patient. A patient who has voluntarily scheduled an appointment and attended the clinic. In your view the procedure may be "evil", but that's not my view, nor is it the law's.
@limberbimbo yes, hes definitely offering a legal procedure, and answering questions. but i think you missed the point, one person says one thing, the doctor says another, why do they gotta lie?
I agree all humans do have the right to live. both mother and child. it angers me when plann parent hood says its not a baby . it is a baby a human life. I pray thast all these clincs close down for good. i went to plann parent hood i regret i ever got on that table, I'am pro lifer no I wish i never went through this. I clle thse people baby killers now.
I also want to say something else. I am 5 months pregnant and ever since I found out about my pregnancy I knew that I was having a baby. The baby doesn't become a baby once it's born, it's always a baby. Learn the facts. I am so excited and blessed to have a baby, I can never imagine killing my baby, my life, my child. :) People need to watch this video and see how planned parenthood lies every second, every minute. :(
Oh I feel sick. God have mercy on that doctor's soul--he's been doing abortions for forty years?
Sweet92Sue 5 days ago in playlist Miscellaneous videos
"They're heart tones, not heart beats..." what's the fucking difference?
Sadowski40 5 days ago
Abortion is mean.
InternetDisciple 5 days ago in playlist Miscellaneous videos
R.I.P. aborted babies <3 believe me we're trying to make it illegal, we're trying. (:
gleexoxo3 2 weeks ago
Life begins at conception, not birth.
MissLeanaFaith 1 month ago
Lol I love all you guys. Hail satan every day. You guys are so awesome satan brothers, fighting your fellow man its sooo amazing. Kill infants, I'm serious its amazing.
demonicspire1 3 months ago
do you need your parent signiture to get an abortion -_____-
StrawberryPerfect 4 months ago
@zeldaxsheik123 says: adoption
~~~~~~~~ You want abortion to stop & have a possible one MILLION kids up for adoptiong a year??? Thats 80 MILLIOn kids in your frickin lifetime!! Are you insane?? Why not love the kids more than you hate abortion, dumbass.
Sueezee1 6 months ago
@Sueezee1 If adults were responsible, there'd be a LOT less pregnancies, and a lot less kids.
So, teach adults not to be idiots, and that will solve the problem. =3
amanda2324 4 months ago
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Sueezee1 4 months ago
@amanda2324 says: If adults were responsible
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Reaponsible according to WHOSE rules of responsibility? Yours? Sorry sweetie, your not the frickin judge of whats responsible or whats not for all the people of the world... get over your damned self!!
Sueezee1 4 months ago
@zeldaxsheik123 says: Dime between the legs bitches
~~~~~~~~~~ LOLOl, billions of people have sex everyday w/ no unwanted pregnancies, and here YOU are wanting sex to stop....just in case? Honey, thats not a fear of pregnancy, thats a fear of human sexuality. get help for your problem!!
Sueezee1 6 months ago
I have lost faith in humanity...
skaterman4332 7 months ago
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@skaterman4332 says: I have lost faith in humanity...
~~~~~~~~~~~ Then youre a weak ass person!!
Sueezee1 6 months ago
planned parenthood suck
vivashira 7 months ago
@vivashira Planned Parenthood provides women and girls with qualified medical professionals to carry out safe procedures to females who are desperate in their predicaments. It helps the prevention of these females harming themselves or producing unwanted offspring who won't be cared for properly. Our society faces serious issues like child abuse, infanticide, neglect, abandonment, poverty...Abortion, though not glamorous, gives people an opportunity to prevent more unwanted people.
loathedandabhorred 7 months ago 8
@loathedandabhorred "Abortion, though not glamorous, gives people an opportunity to prevent more unwanted people" by murdering those unwanted people. Wow. So if I'm unwanted by the guy next door, he can just shoot me. No problem, huh? Please try to think straight. You are supporting the murder of innocent human beings.
prolifepinay 7 months ago
@prolifepinay I'm supporting women's rights. If you think that's a bad thing that's your problem. Aborting a fetus is not equal to shooting somone, get your head on straight. Why should a woman produce a kid she doesn't want, can't or won't care for? Try to think of the poor unwanted kid. And don't say anyone who has sex should have to produce unwanted people simply because they have sex, there's no sense in that.
loathedanabhorred 7 months ago 2
@prolifepinay says: So if I'm unwanted by the guy next door, he can just shoot me
~~~~~~~~~ What in the hell is wrong with you nitwits who equate the "man next door" with a god damned unknown entity with the consciousness level of an earthworm??? you clearly fall too short in your capacity for principle-level and abstract thinking to debate this matter
Sueezee1 6 months ago
@loathedandabhorred In 1973, we were told that there'd be less crime. The prison population rate has increased 700%. We now build more prisons than colleges. I was alive then, and can tell you, it's much worse. See, everything is disposable. It's the 70s "me first" that has spun out of control. Everything that was supposed to get better didn't. We had absolutes, and families. Was it perfect? No, but a lot better than now. I pity the young people nowadays, and am sorry for this legacy.
rousse61 5 months ago
@rousse61 "In 1973 we were told that there'd be less crime. The prison population rate has increased 700%. We now build more prisons than colleges..Everything that was supposed to get better didn't." Yes, so much $ goes to keeping criminals incarcerated, for one thing, that other areas--education, medical care, etc. suffers for it. Everything IS disposable these days, and we need to look at the root of the problem. Fighting for MORE unwanted people is the last thing anyone should suggest
loathedanabhorred 4 months ago
@loathedandabhorred "It helps the prevention of these females harming themselves or producing unwanted offspring who won't be cared for properly."
Uhhh... depends on your definition of "cared for properly." And by your logic, I should be able to go to Africa and kill all the poor children there. Hardly any of them are cared for properly, most are orphans, and none of them are wanted.
Furthermore... infanticide = abortion. It's just done before the victim gets to even see the light of day.
amanda2324 4 months ago
@amanda2324 "And by your logic, I should be able to go to Africa and kill all the poor children there." By MY logic? Well aparently you're not a very logical thinker, are you? Because I suggested nothing of the sort. Your inability to differentiate between born individuals and undeveloped, unconscious, unfeeling, unknowing fetuses shows your own ignorance on the topic. That's like claiming that boiling an egg is as cruel as boiling a live chicken. Go educate yourself a little.
loathedanabhorred 4 months ago
@amanda2324 "Hardly any of them are cared for properly, most are orphans, and none of them are wanted."
Umm, duhhh, and do you see how tragic this is??? Do you honestly think that denying women rights over their bodies and lives, and aiming for a lower standard of living in developed countries, will be of benefit to ANYONE AT ALL? In places where women don't have access to abortions, there are more unwanted kids, more orphans, more kids starving, etc. Try thinking before you type dumb shit!
loathedanabhorred 4 months ago
@loathedanabhorred Just because they're unwanted doesn't mean we should kill them. That's a very dumb reason. I can tell you're rather uneducated and immoral... And if the woman wants control over her "body," then she can do the abortion herself. Otherwise, she has no control when an abortion is performed, because she's not doing anything. The doctors are. If the doctors don't want to do it, I guess all the women are out of luck, huh? Unless you agree with enslaving doctors, of course...
amanda2324 4 months ago
@amanda2324 says: ust because they're unwanted doesn't mean we should kill them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hell no, not to child abusers like you, who demand hated babies be born because it thrills you so.
Sueezee1 4 months ago
@amanda2324 says: And if the woman wants control over her "body," then she can do the abortion herself.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
LOLOL, OMG......the insanity of you people never ceases, does it.
Sueezee1 4 months ago
@amanda2324 says: nd if the woman wants control over her "body," then she can do the abortion herself. Otherwise, she has no control when an abortion is performed, because she's not doing anything. The doctors are.
~~~~~~~~~
Im going to post this little bit of absurdity in the CS forum, where the adults debate..they will love it.
Sueezee1 4 months ago
@amanda2324 "And if the woman wants control over her "body," then she can do the abortion herself."
In countries where abortion is illegal, many women resort to doing abortions themselves or by unsafe meeans. Many die from them or are seriously injured. What an intelligent suggestion, that we should aim to live in 3rd world conditions where people have LESS rights, live in WORSE conditions. I bet you have more intelligent things to say!! :P
loathedanabhorred 4 months ago
@amanda2324 says: And by your logic, I should be able to go to Africa and kill all the poor children there.
~~~~~~~~~~ What? When you start worrying about non human beings, you descend into irrational, psychotic nonsense. Do you have ANY idea how disturbed that thinking is? Its like being obsessed with aliens from outer space! You have irrationally connected with something that dosent even come close to being a part of our human beingness. Its a sick fetal obsession w/ NO sense of reality
Sueezee1 4 months ago
@amanda2324 says: infanticide = abortion.
~~~~~~~~~~~~ Youre a LIAR ( as all prolifers are). Embryos and fetuses are not infants. Whats the matter ..did pro choice take all the truths to make abortion legal and all you have left to work with are lies? Keep up the good work. Prochoice thanks you
Sueezee1 4 months ago
@Sueezee1 Come on, that was an extremely weak refutation. The Father of Modern Genetics says it IS a baby, an infant. Science is against you on this one. You know, science meaning intelligence and knowledge - you're a very ignorant person from what little I've seen of you.
amanda2324 4 months ago
@amanda2324 says: The Father of Modern Genetics says it IS a baby, an infant.
~~~~~~~~~~~
LOl, I call it a Ford F 150 and abortion is still legal, so lets drop the childish name game and give me somehting I can sink my teeth into.
Sueezee1 4 months ago
@Sueezee1 I'm sorry, but I gave you scientific facts. And saying "oh well, it's legal!" Doesn't make it right. It was illegal for women to vote, even though it was okay - having slaves was legal, even though that was not okay. Please come up with some REAL reasons and logic, please!
amanda2324 4 months ago
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@amanda2324 says"I'm sorry, but I gave you scientific facts
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Biology/ Science has NOTHING to do with the issue of legal abortion. Its about rights of people,the law, the 5th, 9th, 13th, & 14th Amendments,The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, The Supreme Court, social custom and necessity, & Roe v. Wade & NO science
Sueezee1 4 months ago
@amanda2324 says:Please come up with some REAL reasons and logic
~~~~~~~~~~
Everything that makes abortion legal is real and logical reason...go read them..lolol
Sueezee1 4 months ago
@Sueezee1 I've read them, and none of them are logical or real reasons. Can you not come up with better refutations? All you do is mock, act immature, and hide behind things.
amanda2324 4 months ago
@amanda2324 says: You know, science meaning intelligence and knowledgey
~~~~~~~~~~~~
LMGDFAO..Sorry, i keep going back to that one for a laugh...
Sueezee1 4 months ago
@amanda2324 vomits: Science is against you on this one. You know, science meaning intelligence and knowledgeyou're a very ignorant person
~~~~~~~
hahahahah... Science did NOT define a baby or a child AND, you dumbass, since when does science means intelligence & knowledge? LOLOl, science IS thestudy of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment. A baby can do that! Ya, lets talk about WHO is "ignorant! LOLOL
Sueezee1 4 months ago
@Sueezee1 A baby cannot do that! HAHAHA! You just proved how stupid you are!
amanda2324 4 months ago
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@amanda2324 says: The Father of Modern Genetics says it IS a baby, an infant. Science is against you on this one.
~~~~~~~~~~ LOLOL, even though science had nothing to do with defining "baby" it woldnt matter if it did!! Abortion is about rights of people,the law, the 5th, 9th, 13th, & 14th Amendments,The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, The Supreme Court, social custom and necessity, & Roe v. Wade & NO SCIENCE! Thanks for helping me make YOU look ignorant!
Sueezee1 4 months ago
@amanda2324 hey Amanda, darling...why did you avoid responding to my comment regarding you having the right to kill anyone you want? Why havent you responded to ANY of my comments?? LOLO,, Ya we ALL know why!! By the way, im done with you..its like debating a 10 yr old.
Sueezee1 4 months ago
@Sueezee1 Oh, so you are only 10 years old, huh? Then I suppose you need to wait a little while and do some growing up, hun. You are rather immature for a 10 year old.
amanda2324 4 months ago
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Sueezee1 4 months ago
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@amanda2324 Oh, so you are only 10 years old, huh?
~~~~~~~~~~ yes, a Im 10 and isnt it amzzing that MY young ideas mesh with the laws that make abortion legal and yours cant make it illegal?? hey sweetie, Im still waiting on you to respond to my comments. It must feel like hell to be outsmarted by a 10 yr old..lololol
Sueezee1 4 months ago
@vivashira your grammar suck
MsMirrorMirror 7 months ago
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@MsMirrorMirror says: your grammar suck
~~~~~~~~~ Its supposed to be "your grammar sucks". Learn YOUR grammar. (Dont you hate when that happens?)
Sueezee1 6 months ago
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@vivashira says:planned parenthood suck
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, anyone who gives out birth control & prevents the abortion of billons of babies .........sucks! Right viva??
Sueezee1 6 months ago
How can you say thats not a baby?
TheKillerpretty 10 months ago
Can you believe that they say its not a baby? You can clearly see its a baby! And let me ask this to all the pro abortionists murderers out there-if its not a baby-then wth is it? I know its not an alien! And the whole "its a mass of cells" gimic-well let me tell you something-were all a bunch of cells and it doesnt stop us from being human!
TheKillerpretty 10 months ago
Nice propaganda film! Well, the problem would be solved if PP didn't have to deal with the crazies picketing in front of their clinics, threatening and intimidating the women that go in. It's their choice. No one can be forced into a pregnancy.
BUT! Given the constant attacks on the right to chose right now, and given the massive amount of lies from the anti-choice camp, it's becoming quite ridiculous, really. Don't attack women's rights. Stop the war on women.
skulander2 10 months ago
@skulander2 Propaganda? That is what PP does. They lie to women about their pregnancies in order to perform more abortions. That is where their profit comes from. They push abortion on women. Only 6 out of 1000 women who went to PP were referred to adoption agencies. Those numbers don't add up. Woman's rights should not infringe on a child's right to life regardless of gestation or age. Women CHOOSE to have sex. Don't pull the rape argument either. Less than 1% are for that reason.
Heatcho 10 months ago
@Heatcho hahaha!You are so right! Its all convenience issues-they always pull the rape card or medical card-but Ive seen it time and time again where the Dr goes in and performs a life saving procedure to the mother and child BOTH. There is no arguement here-its just a bunch of wimps that dont know how to handle their own life-so they dont want to take care of someone else-pure selfishness. I say ban abortion-make it a law to throw the people in prison for murder of an unborn child!
TheKillerpretty 10 months ago
@skulander2 you say there are "massive amount of lies from the anti-choice camp"-- do you mind sharing a few of these lies?
what about the lie that "it's not a baby" growing inside a pregnant woman? what if your mom had believed that?
jdleland 10 months ago
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They also put out info telling kids it's OK to have sex if you are HIV positive and you don't have to tell anybody and they are against any law stating that you do have to tell. Do you people want to thank them for that too. I myself would like to know if the person i'm about to have sex with or my kid is about to have sex with, I would like to know if they have HIV!
xblackstock 10 months ago
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your a bunch of a sick monsters, how the hell do you sleep at night!
marshallrobin99 11 months ago
your a bunch of a sick monsters, how they hell do you sleep at night!
marshallrobin99 11 months ago
This is pretty weak for a supposed "investigation of the lies". I mean, there's nothing devastating here. If that's all you could turn up, well it shows they're doing a good job. Planned Parenthood FTW!
Steve7508 11 months ago
@Steve7508 They also put out info telling kids it's OK to have sex if you are HIV positive and you don't have to tell anybody and they are against any law stating that you do have to tell. Do you people want to thank them for that too. I myself would like to know if the person i'm about to have sex with or my kid is about to have sex with, I would like to know if they have HIV!
xblackstock 10 months ago
i'd just like to thank planned parenthood for all the awesome information they gave me regarding my choices beside abortion and for pretty much saving my life. You guys are amazing!
lambchopclmt 11 months ago
So what? Make abortion illegal thereby pushing into a black market? This is call for one more type of prohibition.
TrueEmergence 11 months ago 2
i think irresponsible adults contribute to higher abortion and adoption rates yes these are both ugly topics but in some cases if people used protection,birth control or whatever means to avoid even having to contemplate an abortion its just not fair unborn babies have no right it has to suffer for the acts of irresponsible adults
1tpstar 11 months ago
@1tpstar How is adoption an ugly topic?
xblackstock 10 months ago
Regardless of all this- Abortion has never been a pretty thing- It is a last ditch attempt to deal with the end result of a sexual encounter that is usually not wanted. Sure- in a perfect world "we" could all have our babies that are born out of wedlock- result of rape-incest- no birth control- no self control etc- put them up for adoption to loving families. But it is not a perfect world- 15 year olds are not prepared to have children and the adoption process is a crap shoot. Abortion=reality
markymcclellan 11 months ago
"it's not a baby" -just keep telling them that. Fetus- latin word meaning offspring or young one.
Beckmaximus 11 months ago
Whether you agree with them or not technically the medical definition is that the future child isn't considered to be a baby but rather a fetus (to distinguish it from a live baby that has been born).
Regarding the heart you're correct that at 3 weeks we have the beginning of a heart beat but medics make a distinction between the early weak heartbeats and the later ones that are more in line with a mature heart
The first woman speaking isn't a doctor so she might just be misinformed
my 2 cents
OrbisFerrum 11 months ago
@OrbisFerrum Abortion sorta follows from Godless atheism rammed down kid's throats today; we're all just a random purposeless bag of goo floating around doing whatever, I'm ok you're ok ,....whatEVER !! Buy into that crap and before ya know it, the state will be declaring BORN ppl bags of goo that need to GO !! Wise up and smell the crap !! People are GOOD for all of us...when ppl go bad we put them in JAIL !! But unless they've killed someone they get to KEEP their lives.
finishstrongdoc 10 months ago
@finishstrongdoc Calling atheism godless is redundant. Beyond that your argument devolves into a slippery slope combined with a generous helping of good old paranoia and a little Godwin's law for good measure.
Rather than spend time debunking your whole statement I'm just going to suggest that if you find rationalism and science to be crap then by all means get off that computer, cut off that electricity and stop taking any and all medication.
OrbisFerrum 10 months ago
I will NOT turn off my electricity, because I believe GOOD things happen when ppl INNOVATE, and LEARN from nature's God. MORE ppl MORE innovation, get it? So far,I've used the computer to do GOOD, tho I've been tempted.Aristotle said learning from nature brings order in our lives.Abundance is a survival strategy.The wealthy West has LESS ability to help the EMERGING third world since we started aborting.Sorta aborting the world for the sake of short-term wealth. Not working.Failing.Not on drugs.
finishstrongdoc 10 months ago
@finishstrongdoc Without appropriate, rational definitions a lot of the technology you see today isn't possible. If it offends you that to some extent medical science regards an embryo as basically a mass of goo then that's your problem. Physically that's what we all are.
Re: more people = more innovation argument can easily be countered by more people = more evil. The only thing more people produces for sure is more people, don't make assumptions.
The rest of your argument is equally nonsense.
OrbisFerrum 10 months ago
@O Colson's Law:The less conscience controls our community,the more cops we need to prevent chaos. Your conscience has become dulled thru sin,& promoting abortion&hEscR creates more dulled consciences&more chaos in the community.Despite BHO's mantra"We are the generation we have been waiting for", it turns out the "we" is still the same old "me" generation,because the "me" is hating on the "we" thru abortion&hEscR.Lawless,selfish union thugs spread hate and chaos in WI&cops ignore it=more chaos
finishstrongdoc 10 months ago
@finishstrongdoc I never indicated that I either did or did not support abortion. I do however support using the appropriate terminology in the appropriate circumstance and that was the substance of it.
Since I have not spoken of anything relating to my conscience you are in no position to make any determination regarding it. You've basically been incoherently ranting and preaching and fighting against a rather elaborate straw man.
I'm sure you have better uses of your time. So do I.
OrbisFerrum 10 months ago
@O You are obviously an absurdist. You have been schooled by the gov't. Sue your teachers.
"Life must be lived forward, but can only be learned backward." ~Soren Kirkegard~ Danish Philosopher
Anything anyone says comes from an internal source, caslled conscience. I respond to your consciece's demands as do you, unless you deny conscience's existence.
In that case, you are an absurdist.
Or a nihilist..
finishstrongdoc 10 months ago
@O What definition do you put on miracles,which,appropriately defined, DO happen?
Your belief system requires that you deny what is objectively true.
The only reason to believe anything is because it's true.
Unless you are an atheist.
Then you must NOT believe what is true.
finishstrongdoc 10 months ago
@finishstrongdoc
re: miracles - that there are unexplained events that occur is certain, there's a lot that science still can't explain. But from there to state there that automatically it's divine isn't objective at all. It's a faith based determination.
The way you use the term objective in general is also entirely suspect.
What I must or must not be is unknown to you so whatever you can assume I am or am not is entirely in your head. You are not God, you do not know me and cannot judge me.
OrbisFerrum 10 months ago
@O If a person cannot be judged by the thoughts he expresses, then it must be assumed that the person takes no measure of others by their thoughts, either. How is it possible, then, to believe ANYTHING is sincerely stated? Are all men autonomous? Then WHY have governments, laws, mores, schools, churches,marriages,friends? Your philosophy is showing..and it is dangerous..created for you by your gov't teachers,who themselves were taught by those who know how to manipulate events through deception.
finishstrongdoc 10 months ago
@finishstrongdoc You're reaching. I agree that a person should be judged on his or her merits but you really have nothing to go by at all so you're making a lot of assumptions. You assume x,y ,z because what, I didn't outright praise and agree with the premise of the video?
For someone so obsessed with conformity you yourself seem to expect a lot of it from everyone. We disagree it doesn't make me a nihilist or an absurdist but your responses do make you a zealot and that is far more dangerous.
OrbisFerrum 10 months ago
@O I love freedom. My future freedom depends on the conformity of others to a moral conscience based on the highest and best principles men have discovered or have had revealed to them. Thoughts have trajectories. Words have objective meanings. Manipulation of words to the ends of manipulating men is not only possible, but probable, and even proven to happen. It is right to praise and condemn; how else can man make order exist in his life? Love of law & order presupposes love of Peace.
finishstrongdoc 10 months ago
@O To relegate the miraculous events in history to mere unimportance in the history of humankind is, at best, very foolish, at worst,dangerously criminal. Miracles should be properly assigned and interpreted. Uniqueness requires categorization. Categorization requires logic. Logic defines sanity. Sanity defines harmony. Harmony defines our happiness. Happiness ensures peace. Peace can only be achieved by loving the Unique, Peaceful, Purposeful, One who does miracles out of Love for Man.
finishstrongdoc 10 months ago
@finishstrongdoc
Miracle: A miracle is an unexpected event attributed to divine intervention.
An event occurring is historically important by definition.
That being said just because the event occurred does not make its source divine intervention (a necessary requirement for it to be considered a miracle). I'm not saying the events are unimportant I'm saying there's no basis for calling them miracles outside of faith int divine intervention but that cannot by definition be proved objectively.
OrbisFerrum 10 months ago
@O You are the one who is reaching. It is beneficial to assign miracles to Divinity because God has purpose behind every miracle. Men can live lives directed toward ignoble ends; God doesn't want His creation, especially His greatest creation, man, to have an ignoble end. He has reached out to men in spectacular ways, only to be assigned to be Someone only zealots can follow. This is absurd, and dangerous, and has an evil source and trajectory. Thoughts have consequences.
finishstrongdoc 10 months ago
@klumzie89 Check out the Clio's freebirth video too. Midwives at home, and even hospitals are right for some people, but one thing the freebirth people are distinctly good for is overcoming the fear-of-giving-birth that has been so falsely ingrained in so many women.
givebirthathome 11 months ago
Single cell organisms don't have heart beats or brains but we do not deny they are alive. We have no more or less importance than them and are just as integral too life on earth. Whether one cell or millions...Life is life.
YoHarajuku 11 months ago 3
I wish I could adopt one of these unwanted children, but sadly the expense is so great, that there are so many other couples who get the opportunity before us because they can promise the children more. More funds, money, and things I may never be able to provide aside from good morals and stability. It hurts to see people feel they have no way out, when there are so many of us standing here begging to be your way out. Just open your local news paper and see.
TezzyDarling 11 months ago
@TezzyDarling Maybe if you became a volunteer doula, and got closer than a newspaper ad, some women who need help would see you.
givebirthathome 11 months ago
your mom chose pro-life y wont you? its amazing way this doesnt go through peoples minds
2PainGah 1 year ago
@2PainGah Ask yourself this question, there are millions of children in this world that needs a home but your mother choose to get pregnant and have you. Why didn't she adopt?
nobletalent 1 year ago
@nobletalent because i was an accident :) and she still never thought of abortion <3
2PainGah 11 months ago
Life begins in the 7th month
TatianaSword 1 year ago
@TatianaSword And who lied to you?
jmatassa 1 year ago
@jmatassa PP told a friend of mine. Before that it's just a blob of tissue a group of cells all bunched up together. And it feels no pain at all. Plus it still has no heart or brain you know.
TatianaSword 1 year ago
@TatianaSword no I was commenting on your comment Life begins in the 7th month? do you beleive that to be true?
jmatassa 1 year ago
@jmatassa Yes that's when the heart begins beating and it feel pain and sucks it's thump. Abortion is only as bad as people thing and want it to be.
TatianaSword 1 year ago
@TatianaSword NO sweetie.. life does NOT begin at 7 months gestation.. It begins at conception.. and the heart beats as early as 2 weeks.. at 10 weeks hands and feet are formed.. Point Blank BABY is alive and well when that sperm hits the egg.. not 7 months !
jmatassa 1 year ago 3
@TatianaSword
have you ever considered taking a class in remedial English you twat. You cannot spell and your grammar is bizarre. Moron
TrOLLKiLLeRs1 1 year ago
For goodness sake, that woman's answer about when "it becomes a baby" wasn't even consistent with the doctor's! They can't even decide if it's a baby at 7 months or at the point of birth! Anyway, I was told as a teen that as soon as a BABY is conceived, he or she already has a soul AND A FUTURE!!!
Lavenderrose73 1 year ago
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this is capitalism at its best, everyones out for money.....shame
crazyknight2008 1 year ago
I have to assume your group is pro-life. A FACT that most Pro-choice supporters understand, and one this physician explains: Week 24 ( a women's 2nd trimester) "with intensive medical attention some babies born this week MAY be able to survive" (mayoclinic). The pseudo patient in this video has passed the in-take process (where adoption and parenting would be discussed), so I'm not sure what your video reveals. Manipulation of footage into modern day propaganda to support your pro-life views?
Virgoton 1 year ago
I have to assume your group is pro-life. A FACT that most Pro-choice supporters understand, and one this physician explains: Week 24 ( a women's 2nd trimester) "with intensive medical attention some babies born this week MAY be able to survive" (mayoclinic). The pseudo patient in this video has passed the in-take process (where adoption and parenting would be discussed), so I'm not sure what your video reveals. Manipulation of footage into modern day propaganda to support your pro-life views?
Virgoton 1 year ago
It's not the same talking about weeks of embryos life than weeks of pregnancy. There are always 2 weeks of difference (time that gives the "pillo of the next day" to act). The counselor is talking about pregnancy time (7 weeks), which is in real embryos' life 5 weeks (equivalent to the 4.5 embryo of the video). So they're not lying.
LaPrincesaFeliz 1 year ago
I really find it dishonest when the counselor says that the baby is not a baby until birth and then the doctor says the baby is not a baby until 6 months. Plus the nurse says the baby is viable at 17 weeks, yet it's apparently not a baby then. Then you speak to pro-choicers who say that baby's arent viable until 24weeks to the 7th month, but you can easily walk into a NICU and see 22 week preemies, and my daughter was born at 28 weeks. Does anyone see the lies here?
LovedbcHim 1 year ago
Omgosh... I would have been so scared if I were her! How on earth did she get out of that place without letting him "examine" her?
retownsend 1 year ago
@retownsend By saying: "I don't want to be examined." Despite the creepy audio, no woman is forced to do an abortion." And calling a fetus a fetus is not manipulation and it is not a lie. It is a medical term. If a girl asks to get an abortion and the doctor tells her: we'll murder your baby, as this vid puts it, that would be manipulation.
MARGARELON 1 year ago
@MARGARELON The medically/scientifically false information that Planned Parenthood gives is in relation to when the human heart starts beating.
"no woman is forced to do an abortion"
Research data suggest that many women are forced into abortions by abusive boyfriends, etc. There have even been a couple cases of women killed this year by the child's father when they refused to have an abortion at his request.
LiveActionFilms 1 year ago
@LiveActionFilms Yes, you can find a black shep everywhere, I suppose.
However, you are probably right about the abusive partners. But the topic of this vid is the practice of an organisation, so individual abuse outside the law is beside the point, don't you agree?
MARGARELON 1 year ago
@MARGARELON Sure there are black sheep everywhere but our student team has now released video from 12 Planned Parenthood clinics that either show sexual abuse cover-up or the giving of medically false information. That sounds like a lot of black sheep which makes the case, maybe the sheep are black because the shepherd is too.
LiveActionFilms 1 year ago
@LiveActionFilms Possible. Which video is that? Of course, a quick search showed me, there are 840 Planned Parenthood centers in the US, so 12 cases seems still not THAT much to me. I have no dout, most of this peoples are - like most peoples - driven by money and maybe try any legal means to increase the abortion rates. And the "false informations" in this vid were mostly not false. A fetus is a fetus, women die during birth.
MARGARELON 1 year ago
@MARGARELON This video talks about false information AND manipulation. Some of it is verbal manipulation that may not be factually incorrect but the use of it in the manner that is used is suspect.
12 clinics is a lot for our small student group to find having issues. If they are representative of the rest...there are a lot of problems at Planned Parenthood. The clinics were also spread across many states. You can give us a donation at our website so we can investigate more.
LiveActionFilms 1 year ago
@LiveActionFilms Sorry, I looked at your other videos and...
It’s around I think the 8th or 9th week, that you can hear the heartbeat.
That is correct information. The actual heartbeat may start after 22 days as you say, but the mother can hear it only after 8 weeks.
You ask about the abortion pictures, and ask “are they like real babies”, so the counselor answers no, because they see 10 weeks old fetuses not as babies.
MARGARELON 1 year ago
@MARGARELON The heartbeat can be heard at about the 6th week and clearly observed before that. The question is, why does the Planned Parenthood staffer fail to answer the question? Why is Planned Parenthood not answering the question of women seeking their counsel?
Also, we do not claim that every statement they make is a direct lie, some a just manipulative.
LiveActionFilms 1 year ago
@LiveActionFilms A woman, thinking about abortion should not ask peoples, who make a living from abortion, I give you that. She should ask a neutral doctor.
It is possible, that Planned Parenthood is manipulative. All I say is, there are other posiible explantions for those answers. You ask with the intention to reveal manipulation. The counselor tries to soothe the worries of a young girl in a difficult situation. Her intentions might be benevolent.
MARGARELON 1 year ago
@MARGARELON While someone may have benevolent intentions, it is not loving to give someone less than the truth when they ask for it. Would it be ok for doctors treating cancer to falsely tell patents that they have a 99% chance of living when that is not the case? If people want false comfort able medical realities, they should not be getting these false comforts from the medical profession.
LiveActionFilms 1 year ago 3
@LiveActionFilms Yes, I agree. But calling a fetus a fetus and not a person or a baby, is not false information. Telling the woman, that an early abortion is safer for the woman than a birth is not false information. Telling her, that an early abortion is easier and cheaper is not false information.
MARGARELON 1 year ago
@MARGARELON Actually, you're wrong. Calling a fetus a fetus and not a real person IS completely false information! It IS a live human being! Telling a woman that an early abortion is safer for a woman than birth IS completely false information! How is slaughtering an innocent child in cold blood for convenience "safe"? Telling her that an early abortion is easier and cheaper IS completely false information! What price do you put on a human life??? Abortion IS the cold blooded murder of a child!
cjeb2003 1 year ago
@cjeb2003 Your opinion. When does human life start? If a fetus is a person, why not an embryo? Why not a spermatozoon? Do I kill millions of people, when I have sex? Sometimes a mother dies, while giving birth. Sometimes both, mother and child die. In that case, an abortion SAVES one life. Don't fall for slogans.
MARGARELON 1 year ago
@LiveActionFilms Your right, I was able to put a stethescope to my belly and hear my daughters heartbeat at that time. It was really neat. Clearly PPL does use a lot of dishonesty and manipulation. There are a lot of holes in their argument. You can tell from my comment before.
LovedbcHim 1 year ago
abortion will never be illegal, get over it. Woman have choices and will always have choices. If you're not going to raise the kid she's aborting, don't worry about it. Practice what you preach. Don't believe in abortions? Don't have one. But don't try to instill your ancient beliefs on others. xoxo
bellaamariela 1 year ago
wow the guy tells her that women die from having babies. PRO LIFE
guitarchick100 1 year ago
@guitarchick100 Uh...women DO die from having babies.
PinotVino 1 year ago
its a baby. they only want ur money.......
ImSoSorryToMyBaby 1 year ago
wow, so sad. Very good work I am so glad you guys did this video. Abortion is murder.
noplannedparenthood 1 year ago
How can something with a heartbeat NOT be a baby?????
alanepearce 1 year ago
@alanepearce there are lots of things with a heart beat that are not babies. Get real.
PinotVino 1 year ago
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want watch - Parenthood in HD and all eps, seasons? then go:
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prioritty3 1 year ago
I can't believe that if a pregnant woman gets murdered, the killer gets charged on TWO counts of murder (the woman AND the baby growing inside of her)...and yet abortion is not considered illegal, why?! Must be because of the choice of the woman, right? But the killer made the choice to take away the life of the woman and baby....what's the difference???
TheAngela3983 1 year ago 2
@TheAngela3983 The difference is that it was not the woman who made the choice.
halvor311 1 year ago
Comment removed
TheAngela3983 1 year ago
Literally makes me weak all over and to think this goes on everyday in every state. God help us.
mich95a 1 year ago 3
The choice that should have been made would be to abstain from rutting like a dog in one night stands, casual sex fully knowing it could end in pregnancy. But hey, no problem, just kill it if it grows. When conception occurs, new life begins. That life is human. That is a scientific fact. . Killing it is killing a human being. When woman buy into that choice to murder their "fetus" (which is means a developing humna) they will damage their souls for decades. Abortion kills human beings.
DeblerQueen 1 year ago 9
@DeblerQueen That's right! STOP RUTTING LIKE DOGS, YOU SLUTS!!
PrudishFury 9 months ago
@DeblerQueen It's pretty dense of you to assume that every woman caught in the predicament of an unwanted pregnancy is a whore. Many women can't take on another human life, many women can hardly care for their own selves never mind the responsibility of a child. It's often a heartwrenching decision with a lot of thought and consideration put into it, there's no need to criticize a woman who has "damaged her soul" or lives with the anguish of having made such a choice.
loathedandabhorred 7 months ago 12
@loathedandabhorred Having been there, we shouldn't be in a sham of a "relationship" with someone who can give a rip about us. We deserve better than the way we've been duped into believing we should be physically involved at the wrong time in our lives. It does nothing positive for us, and trips us up. I am now 50, and look back on regrets. Is that why we are here? Which dog are we feeding?
rousse61 5 months ago
@loathedandabhorred So... as long as I put a lot of thought and consideration, and it's extremely heart wrenching, I can murder anyone I want, right? Or more specifically, my mom could murder me? That's stupid.
amanda2324 4 months ago
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@amanda2324 "So... as long as I put a lot of thought and consideration, and it's extremely heart wrenching, I can murder anyone I want, right? Or more specifically, my mom could murder me? That's stupid."
You are right, that IS stupid. Hahaha, YOU said it, not me. :)
loathedanabhorred 4 months ago
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@amanda2324 says: as long as I put a lot of thought and consideration, and it's extremely heart wrenching, I can murder anyone I want, right? Or more specifically, my mom could murder me?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Youre ass can murder anyone you chose to murder. Whats your point?
Sueezee1 4 months ago
@loathedandabhorred But those women who naively assume there are no other options, but to murder their child, would be surprised to know that there are organizations that can help save both the lives of the unborn babies & take them in as well off the mother's hands. However, if some women know there about these other options - such as adoption, etc - and yet STILL choose to kill their unborn babies - there is no justification for their actions. None at all.
EmilyGreene1984 5 days ago in playlist Miscellaneous videos
@EmilyGreene1984 Women don't have to resort to "killing their child" if they can't care for it or don't want it, they can choose not to produce that child in the first place. That's where abortions come in. Many women DO NOT want to produce more people, and no one should even think about forcing them to do so, how disgusting. If you can't comprehend why women would choose abortions, maybe you should talk to some of these women instead of judging the lot of them in blind ignorance.
loathedandabhorred 3 days ago
@DeblerQueen So, you can only get pregnant if you're rutting like a dog in one night stands?
MsMirrorMirror 7 months ago
We probably shouldn't be prolonging life either since it's not "natural."
linny11 1 year ago
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No, the fetus is less human because it can't make cognitive decisions. It's what separates humans from animals - the ability to think critically.
linny11 1 year ago
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Well, I don't think there will ever be a lack of children in this world...but maybe a lack of reason.
I think we should all forego birth control and have 19 children! Give all unwanted children life! Does it matter if their mother can't support them or love them properly? No! Let's just put them all in an orphanage and hope they don't spend the first 18 yrs of their life stuck there! Hmm...makes sense to me!
linny11 1 year ago
Look up planned parenthood eugenics
and racism on youtube and tell others
about it.
2000yrCatholic 1 year ago
i have 2 unplanned children i love them more than anything, but if the situation would have been different like i was raped, or the pregancy was ectopic, or there was a serious birth defect i would mo have an abortion. the planned parenthood staff never lied they just spoke in medical terms. if you think they were cold you should see how cold doctors are when they tell you you're dieing from cancer.
kmkgadams 1 year ago
lets say they make abortion illegal, what other options are there.most women who have abortions live in proverty so if they keep it, odds are, the baby will probably grow up to be a criminal having been born into poverty. adoption is a good,but there are so many unwanted children who spend their lives in the system.
kmkgadams 1 year ago
I have and am raising two unplanned children, THEY ARE MY entire world...the thought of abortion, and the lies told to women : make me so angry. So disappointing that humans can treat one another this way.
How can these doctors go back to their homes,and be loving. Be wholesome.
never did i question, if i wanted to KILL a/my CHILD.I suppose a women can do whatever they please with theirbody, and their babys,
but it is murder, completely.
VEGANisPEACE 1 year ago 5
I don't see how this is 'shocking.' There are no outright lies or medical misinfo in this, it's just fudging semantics. Pro-lifers say "baby" pro-choicers say "fetus." And it *is* medically a fetus, and you could call it a baby too if you want, and you can call cardiac activity before fetus viability a 'heartbeat' or whatever they called it here I forgot. Of course they're going to lean toward less humanizing terms, b/c well...it's an abortion clinic. I fail to see how this is ~breaking news~
SpyWaffle 1 year ago
Agreed. Also, I'd like to point out that in the beginning of this video (around 1:15) the creators are trying to make a point that they can hear a heart beat starting at 7 weeks. Frankly, I'm not impressed with this weak point. It's a little funny they use this as fuel on the fire. The baby couldn't possibly live outside the womb on its own for months yet anyway. If the mothers life is in danger it's going to cost thousands of dollars to keep this fetus alive. I'd hardly call that a "baby."
linny11 1 year ago
Yeah, and since this fetus cannot live outside the womb, we should be free to kill it. Cuz, like, when its a fetus, its not really a human yet. Right? Its just a zit on some female uterus. And who knows what it may become.
And frankly I am not impressed by your weak point about mother's lives being in danger, since, you know, the only danger the vast majority of aborting mother's are in usually comes down to not being able to fit in their skinny jeans anymore.
Spectreman 1 year ago 2
Is that supposed to be funny? These mothers aren't fit for motherhood. My heart aches for the children growing up in broken homes where they aren't loved and are denied the basics of life. It happens too often. And no, I don't think abortion should be a form of birth control - there's already an obvious lack of personal responsibility in America. (Idiots having multiple abortions need to be shot)
It's called pro-CHOICE because women have a choice. But that doesn't mean it's an easy choice.
linny11 1 year ago
@linny11 : Linny, this obliviously has struck a cord with you but remember, Murder is NEVER justified...period!
mich95a 1 year ago 3
Like "toddler" and "adolescent," the terms "embryo" and "fetus" do not refer to nonhumans, but to humans at particular stages of development. They all have a beating heart (whether its a heart "beat" or heart "tone") and measurable brain waves.
Sarahrubberband 1 year ago 2
This can't be faked. I would love to see how many pro-abortion people try to deny this video and try to claim that it was staged.
ashmarie88 1 year ago 14
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FAGGOT SHIT!!!!!
Dmac11a666 1 year ago
Thank you for posting this! It shocked all of us at our pro-life club on campus.
steptomyhomegirl 2 years ago 4
Bruce Springsteen - Dancing In The Dark playing in background,,,, how apropos for someone who rips a baby apart. "this guns for hire even if we're just dancin in the dark"
"Stay on the streets of this town and they'll be carving you up alright "
alan933 2 years ago 7
listen to classical music while pregnant will make your child more intelligent. If the baby is not human, how can the music have any effect on him/her. Parents fighting is bad for babies in the womb. These are facts.
maryjwp 2 years ago 3
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I can't believe people still believe that that's a human inside. Well i guess when you have to much time on your hands i guess it's ok to march with the Religious Right.
ArmDestroyers 2 years ago
armdestroyers of course an unborn baby is a human being. If you have never seen an abortion then click to the link to the website on my page. Slavery was outlawed in America because in a free country people cannot own other human beings, and abortion will be outlawed because in a free country unborn children cannot be killed. We are all supposed to have the right to LIFE, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If abortion isn't killing a human being, then how come we never see it?
ComeHomeCatholics 2 years ago 3
@arms What would you expect it to be? A car perhaps. Maybe a plane. An owl?
mcv47 2 years ago
How can you defend this evil that is obviously projecting from this man?? You are completely insane.
flyeres 2 years ago 4
The only one projecting here is you.
The man is offering a legal medical procedure -- in the video, he is answering the questions of a patient. A patient who has voluntarily scheduled an appointment and attended the clinic. In your view the procedure may be "evil", but that's not my view, nor is it the law's.
limberbimbo 2 years ago
@limberbimbo Many laws are wrong. Medical Mariuana for one should not be illegal. Can't judge by our laws. Don't be deceived.
maryjwp 2 years ago 2
@limberbimbo yes, hes definitely offering a legal procedure, and answering questions. but i think you missed the point, one person says one thing, the doctor says another, why do they gotta lie?
gabinchis 2 years ago 2
Great work.
ThanksSaintJoseph 2 years ago 2
I agree all humans do have the right to live. both mother and child. it angers me when plann parent hood says its not a baby . it is a baby a human life. I pray thast all these clincs close down for good. i went to plann parent hood i regret i ever got on that table, I'am pro lifer no I wish i never went through this. I clle thse people baby killers now.
paulac1258 2 years ago
@paulac1258 Agreed. I pray that they close down, too.
steptomyhomegirl 2 years ago 4
I also want to say something else. I am 5 months pregnant and ever since I found out about my pregnancy I knew that I was having a baby. The baby doesn't become a baby once it's born, it's always a baby. Learn the facts. I am so excited and blessed to have a baby, I can never imagine killing my baby, my life, my child. :) People need to watch this video and see how planned parenthood lies every second, every minute. :(
HeatherS4evr 2 years ago 5