Zimbabwe opposition questions its leader - 14 Nov 07

[kullmassivemassive]

Robert Mugabe is the only real leader in Africa.

[mchigubu]

Thanks AUSTRALIA GOD BLESS AUSTRALIA. Canberra is providing $6.4m (A$10m; £4.7m) direct aid to restore basic water, sanitation & health services. I'm shocked PresObama slaps PM Tsvangirai with SATANIC SANCTIONS. PresObama makes CHANGE by shutting down Quantanamo, lift Cuba sanctions, lift Bush's embryonic stem cell research, BUT EXTENDS Bushs SATANIC SANCTIONS designed DEPOPULATE BLACKS in ZIMBABWE thru extreme poverty & use MUGABE as SCAPEGOAT. CARNAGE to destroy natives goes beyond 1800

[Znaika1]

Unless Aussies send their own supervisors and auditors to monitor the progression of work, little will be repaired, much will be received in kickbacks and the rest will be stolen. Welcome to Zimbabwe's socialism!

As for the sanctions, they are only against corrupt government officials; ordinary Zimbabweans are not affected. Mchigubu can not provide even a single example of an independent Zimbabwe business that has been affected by 'sanctions' she is raving about. It's because there is none.

[metrop42]

Ian Smith was a racist. In fact he had a falling out with his son Alec due to his racist ways. There are many ways to educate and suppression is not one. Rhodesia is an African country and the majority of people there are black. the whole political arrangement in Rhodesia was intended to entrench economic and political privilege for whites. Lets not get disillusioned here. To this day there is no evidence of education in Rhodesia it never was a priority. Dumb uneducated idiots, makes me angry.

[metrop42]

cont..I am not talking about the people here I am talking about the leadership. There has not been one leader to succeed in Rhodesia..why because they all have self interests. The majority of the African people are living in camps with very little food while they stuff their faces and their pockets. Niether Ian Smith or Mugabe have brought about positive change in Zimbabwe. They are both racists. There are some of us that want to live in peace. All men are equal no matter the colour.

[Znaika1]

"Ian Smith was a racist."

I know Smith broke with his son because of different views, but it is not yet a proof that he was a racist, is it? What makes you say that Smith was a racist? And what do you call "racism"? The common definition is "a belief in inherent inferiority/superiority as defined by the race". What racist (that is based on such belief) he exactly said or do? Inevitably because of social differences there was racism in a society, yes, but how was it instigated by the government?

[metrop42]

Znaika1 I am of mixed race born in Uganda my father was kicked out of Uganda because he was white. We moved to Australia where I saw and felt racism against my mother and myself the white people. I think I know what racism is. It is impossible to explain racism unless you have felt the pain of it. Quote from Ian Smith-"I don't believe in black majority rule ever in Rhodesia, not in a thousand years."

[metrop42]

cont....A government is a ruling body therefore it has power over the people and is in a position to instigate anything. African people felt oppressed that is why there was the Rhodesian front. People will fight back when they are mistreated.

[Znaika1]

"People will fight back when they are mistreated"

True, but there is a fine border between being truly mistreated and being treated according to the value but genuinely believing in being mistreated. Here is one example: Rhodesia spent L16 per black pupil per year, but L160 per white one. Mistreatment? Yes, but dig deeper and you will see that 5% of whites paid these 16 pounds for 95% of blacks, blacks hardly paid anything. Result of the revolution: In 1990 Zimbabwe spent Z$6 dollars per pupil.

[Znaika1]

I asked you if you know about anything racist Smith said or did because it is much too easy to brand any criticism of Africans as "racism" and to deny it on this basis. This behaviour serves bad service to Africa as any improvement starts with recognition of a problem.

Talking about this particular quote, it has a little known continuation: "I believe in equal partnership between black and white, I believe in a joint black and white rule." I can't see how this is racist, I think it is not.

[metrop42]

Well Actions speak louder than words...Politicians speak crap all the time.

[Znaika1]

"entrench privilege for whites."

As far as I know, Rhodesian franchise was colour-blind. White or black, one had to have either certain number of years of education or have certain capital or combination of both. Granted, most blacks did not meet these requirements, but I dont think it was racist as it was not based on race. It ensured that voters are responsible citizens, knowing the value and the purpose of voting and not just bodies coming to cast a ballot as they were told by their chiefs.

[metrop42]

Znaika1 White minority rule originated in property and education qualifications for voting that were in place when the British government introduced self-government in 1923. Such qualifications were unexceptional by the standards of the 1920s, and, although slightly modified over the years, they ensured a situation up to 1979 in which whites had 95% of the votes in national elections, while they were never more than 5% of the population.

[Znaika1]

"property and education qualifications for voting that were in place...in 1923."

It is true that qualification requirements excluded vast majority of Africans. However the right to vote presumes sufficient level of responsibility and an ability to make conscious decisions independently, this is why children are not allowed to vote. But it is not physical age that makes a person a responsible and able adult. So I question if the rules that were in place were unreasonable.

[Znaika1]

The requirements were not unattainable for Africans; 1961 constitution required:

For A roll (50 "white" constituencies) - yearly income of 330 pounds and four years of secondary education.

For B roll (15 "black" districts) - yearly income of 132 pounds and two years of secondary education. For a reference, at the time average monthly salary of black workers in manufacturing was 40 pounds, in agriculture - 12 pounds. Reality proved this: the number of voting Africans was quickly growing.

[Znaika1]

From what I understand, responsible black majority rule was possible gradually through growth of income and education. I know that number of blacks satisfying suffrage criteria was growing percentage-wise very rapidly: from less than 10 people in 1898 to about 65,500 in 1962. Moreover, constitution of 1961 gave blacks certain advantage: 15 parliament seats out of 65 were reserved after predominantly black districts. At one point these 15 seats have been filled by only 800 [mostly] black votes.

[metrop42]

Znaika1 where is the evidence of this? Actions speak louder than words.

[Znaika1]

"Znaika1 where is the evidence of this? Actions speak louder than words."

Sorry, the comments here are sometimes sorted in a peculiar way; to which my passge this question is addressed precisely?

[Znaika1]

"There has not been one leader to succeed in Rhodesia."

Garfield Todd and Edgar Whitehead of United Federal Party. This party's government implemented a number of reforms favouring advancement of Africans. It was Whitehead who vastly improved education for blacks, he repealed Immorality Act and started reviewing Land Apportionnement. Ironically he lost elections of 1962 because blacks boycotted the elections following the call of their leaders. UFP has been narrowly defeated by Rhodesian Front.

[metrop42]

What is your point exactly?

[Znaika1]

"What is your point exactly?"

My point is that Rhodesia had capable leaders and it could have evolved onto a multicultural state, but it missed its chances largely due to the position of black nationalists but also because of spineless British policies. Rhodesia had first chance at 1962 elections. Nkomo first supported UFP, but was pressured by ANC to revoke his position. If he didn't, then UFP would have won the elections of Whitehead would have proceeded with the equalisation reforms.

[Znaika1]

"All men are equal no matter the colour"

Yep.

[metrop42]

Show me a leader who puts education first and I will follow. I see nothing like that by either of these so called leaders. To pick either one of them is the downfall of this country. We should all remember where there is no following there is no leader. When the the people of Zimbabwe are educated they are better able to know the difference and know thier rights as humans beings. The sooner both of these leaders are overthrown the better.

[Znaika1]

Ian Smith's Rhodesia spent enormous efforts to educate black children largely because sheer demography dictated this: black families had 5-10 children and ever since black ceased dying from tribal conflicts, hunger and diseases, black population started to double every 20 years. So Rhodesia had little choice: either to civilize masses of blacks or to be swamped by tribal Africans. They spent more than half of the total education budget on education of blacks. Apparently it was still not enough.

[mchigubu]

6Mar09 SAD day for Zimbabwe! I read online news & learned PM Morgan Tsvangirayi had asked for Western Sanctions on Zimbabwe to be removed, but Pres Obama had slapped Zimbabwe with EXTENDED year of Pres Bush's SATANIC SANCTIONS. Later in evening I learned from CNN: "Zimbabwe PM Tsvangirai has been injured in a car crash which killed his wife Susan. Pres Mugabe visited PM Tsvangirai in hospital". I say "RIP Mrs Susan Tsvangirai". Zimbabwe unite in this TURMOIL of 1 more year DEATHS & SANCTIONS

[Znaika1]

The crisis constituted by the actions and policies of certain members of the Government of Zimbabwe and other persons to undermine Zimbabwe's democratic processes or institutions has not been resolved For these reasons, I have determined that it is necessary to continue this national emergency and to maintain in force the sanctions to respond to this threat.

BARACK OBAMA

THE WHITE HOUSE,

March 3, 2009

[southbobby]

LONG LIVE THE GREAT MUGABE!

[metrop42]

There are no good politicians!!! They are all full of shit and don't give a damn about their own people. Mugabe is a criminal and Morgan Tsvangirai is no better. When you have some-one who starts to improve the living standards of their own instead of putting money in their own pockets and the pockets of their own family and friends we might be getting somewhere. It's just a complete mess and you have to question the motives of the West and thier interference. Who are the real trouble makers?

[southbobby]

you are so right. all politicians are no good.

[jwlnler]

I wonder what role this might've played in mr. Tsvangirai decision to withdraw from the run-off, just days ahead, due to the violence inflicted against opposition members by the government. On the bright side, the MDC still has a slight majority control over the lower house, meaning even if Mugabe stays President, his power will be more limited, unless he trys to destroy Parliament. And if Mugabe tries that, then Western and Asian countries would likely intervene!

[leitros]

Well he's doing so and the West isn't doing anything much about it!!

[xmahlangeni]

Crap channel. They are the only international news people with access to Zim but...

[Bobbifartknocker]

ALJAZEERA....Must be the Worlds Best Intelligence Network..They know where all the Badd Guys are...

[Rockopeetzee]

Africa has such great History, too bad most people will never go there because of Hitler like criminals like Mugabe there.Could be worse,I guess he could be like Idi Amin Dada and eat people.Welcome to Uganda Drive thru, who can I get you to eat?"Give me Big Mac"...

[bigh560]

Its like throwing a handfull of sweets to a crowd of children, they scramble and fight amongst eachother, the stronger fill their pockets and the weak go without, the concept of sharing is non existant. They are all power grabing maniacs.

[v19d]

If this Morgan will be a dictator why would the US even consider giving him aid. During the cold war the US gave aid to dictators and during the cold war the US stop giving aid to some dictators but during the rest of the cold war aid kept going till the end of the cold war even sometime after it ended Zaire is a example.

[adikiny]

Tchangerai wants to have power for himself alone. His word is law and he expects party members to simply OBEY. This is a person who might sell Zimbabwean land to the Crown of England. Zimbabwe belongs to the Negro and it is good that Robert Mugabe returned Negroland to the Negro. He also brought back dignity to Africa and her peoples.

[brick4sale]

Yeah, real dignity he lets his people starve while has a million dollar birthday party.

[eeezee1]

Ah!! Hatcliff! Thats my hood, I grew up there. Damn, I really miss that place, I would give anything to go back and see all my peeps I left there and every favorite spot I used to hang out. I'm proud of that place and will always be. Zimbabwean forever!! God Bless.

[fixzimbabwe]

Poverty and squalor, is that what you call dignity? Mugabe is an idiot who brought disaster on Zim and nothing else.

[fixzimbabwe]

Sorry, eezee, comment was meant for adikini

[afrircans1970]

YOU ARE CORRECT....IT IS SIMPLE FACT

[MustafaPresents]

Political parties are concerned with gaining power, not necessarily with doing what is right. If we pin our hopes on one partisan group or another we will be forever disappointed. We have been brainwashed by the parties themselves to believe that they hold the answers to our problems, which they don't.

[waloafrica]

super mandiwanzira is a complete nonsense.please do not listen to his nonsense,he is on zanu pf ticket.what he is talking about is lidacris.someone has to explain to him the meaning of dictatorship,he is only trying to damage MDC but will never be successfull.We will try to talk to aljezira to fire him.

[brick4sale]

Hmm you have proof that the reporter is part of Zanu PF, I'm honestly curious.