Yeah,they dont make any sense,i can give you a reason why God doesnt need a "creator" because HE'S SPIRIT,(a.k.a immaterial) Everything else in this Universe IS material. God exists out of time,why? Not only did He create it,but also He is all knowing,we are not,how can you exists in rules of time,when you know everything?? Answer,He dont. If He was in the bounds of His creation,He would cease to be the perfect and flawless God that He is.
@TheCh1212 Your argument is circular. You've stated God is a spirit (or something that is immaterial). I can easily say that energy is immaterial, so is energy a spirit? Energy exists in the universe, and that is not material. My question is you claim God is a spirit, now prove it. What evidence do you have that he's a spirit? So God doesn't exist within the universe, meaning he can't operate within it, as you say, meaning prayer is bullshit. Therefore miracles do not occur according to you.
@strkszone Doesnt mean it isnt true. Where did the initial energy come from?. When you repent and trust in Jesus,God actually said He will come and make His home IN YOU,and your "fruit" is the proof of God IN YOU. Besides that,is creation,I dont have to see God or anything for that thing to exist. The creation around is proof of a Creator. And yes God does operate within it,but He dwells outside of it,interacting with us and through us.
@TheCh1212 Yes it sorta does... "I can't explain (x) therefore God." It's a stupid argument to make. It doesn't solve anything, because as soon as we find the answer to that question, when another arises God will be put in there instead. The Greeks believed Zeus made lightning come down because they couldn't explain it, were they right? I see no fruits in me, sorry. Your nonsense is hilarious. You don't need to see it, but you need to have evidence, yes. What makes you say we're creations?
@TheCh1212 I'm sorry but the argument is over, you're failing to reason with the most basic concepts of God, the fact that you have to resort to God of the gaps is just laughable. If you make a claim and want people to believe you, you need evidence for it. Whether you can see it or not makes no difference, if the evidence is sound then the proof is sound. There is no evidence for God. You just have a book that told you so, and you do believe in Fiction right?
@strkszone Yet you cannot explain where the initial energy came from? And whos arguing? You can believe anything you want,just like the Greeks,doesnt mean its Truth,the Word of God is inspired,test it then lol. You see no fruits in you because you do not know God,your still an enemy to Him because of your sin. I say we're creations because no material and non-life creating other material and life is a scientific impossiblility. (PART 1)
@TheCh1212 You haven't proved it can't be done without God, we just don't know how it was done. You don't answer a question that way. That is a presupposition and a false one, at that. Of course I cannot explain where it came from, I'm not going to lie to you and tell you I know where it did, no one does. Anyone who says otherwise is either stupid or lying. Exactly you can believe what you want, doesn't make it true, just like God. You don't know God either, who does? I don't believe in Sin.
@strkszone lol "i cant (x) therefore God doesnt exist" lol talk about circular reasoning. Also talk about Pre-supposition "...no one does" lol Thats an absolute statement. You'd have to be God to say that there is no God,also i do know Him i told you if want to prove or disprove the Bible just do what it says,God actually said He WILL reveal Himself to you if you Repent and Trust in His Son. He'll give you a new heart of flesh. And doesnt matter if you do or dont...(PART 1)
@TheCh1212 No... it works like this. You make a claim, you back it up with evidence. I refer you back to the unicorn analogy. The default is disbelief until proven. Not vice versa, that leads to gullibility. No, I can clearly say there is no God, and I'm not God. In fact it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to say there is no God since that'd be a self contradiction. I was a Christian for 5 years, then I read the Bible and became an atheist. He didnt reveal himself, if he did to you, I suggest you get help.
@strkszone (PART 2) There is another proof of God,its called the conscience=con(with) and science(knowledge) so when you sin you do it WITH KNOWLEDGE you supprese the Truth and deny it. You KNOW its wrong to Lie,Steal,Hate (which the Bible says is murder of the heart) lust=Adultery,. And Covet,these Laws the 10 Commandments is what God will Judge the world by on Judgment Day and your guilt will come out as proof of your sin,when you stand before a Holy and Righteous God.
@TheCh1212 Conscience is just my mind telling me what is good behavior instilled by ethics and moral values taught to me as a child. It is dependent on your environment and external stimulus. It's funny how other cultures that pre-date Christianity said it was wrong to Lie/Steal/Kill too. Nothing wrong with lust, it's attraction, if there was no lust there would be no sex. You have no proof a judgement day either. Sorry but what you've provided is not even remotely proof.
@strkszone Doesnt mean there right thought,its called absolute Truth,you can be told raping children while you are a child is right,but it doesnt make it right. The foundation i base my opinions and morals is by God the only sound conclusion. And yes your right,you know what came before Christianity? Mosaic Law/Hebrew Roots,before that? Covenants that God has made with people since the beginning of our existence (starting with Adam-Noah-Abraham..so on so on) I do have proof,Gods Word.
@TheCh1212 I do not believe in absolute truths. A belief in an absolute truth would render someone close minded. There is objective truth based on evidence, but not absolute truth. Please read up on Secular Morality. If you base your morals by God then you're for killing people of other religions, slavery, subservience of women, and stoning of gays. The Chinese weren't Jewish/Hebrew. No, you have an edited book by a man claiming it's God's word's word.
@strkszone Are you Absolutely sure that there is no Absolute Truth? If God is real,then how would it be wrong to do anything He says? Are we not all sinful and isnt sin so serious to a PERFECT and Holy and Flawless God that even sees are thought life that we deserve Hell and Death for committing such sin against Him? or mabe its just you dont WANT to look at it that way,because if it WAS true,then you WOULD be held responsible for your actions.. (PART 1)
@TheCh1212 Of course I'm not absolutely sure there is no absolute truth. Their very well could be, but it hasn't been demonstrated or proven. If God told you to murder your own son would you do it? According to many people who killed their children "God told them so" how do you discredit them? If you question him he'd just say "It's a part of God's plan" He is filled with flaws, that much is obvious. I don't think ANYONE deserves hell, and that hell is immoral making God immoral and hateful.
@strkszone (PART 2) The Chinese came from their ancestors,who came from their ancestors just like an obvious family line all the way back to Noah's son Ham out of the 3 sons he had.
@TheCh1212 LMFAO!? YOU BELIEVE THE STORY ABOUT THE FUCKING ARK!?!?!? ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUSLY THAT STUPID!?!?!? Alright, I'm sorry but your stupidity is just mind bogglingly hystarical. Sir please read up on how big the boat would've been and how impossible it would have been to put 2 of every animal on there. Also, what would they eat without making the entire species extinct? Also, where were the dinosaurs? This is a fucking joke, Christians would laugh at you..
@strkszone I'm pretty dumb,but yet i do know my Bible,so eh,i think Christians would agree if they know their Bible. I dont really feel really dumb talking to you though since ive answered all your questions perfectly and if you've noticed you havnt answered any lol. You could also say "how could all the animals get to the ark in the first place?" Then i would say the Key to the answer. "How did the door close?" I agree with you it would be IMPOSSIBLE for all that to happen on its own (PART 1)
@TheCh1212 Uhm, many Christians don't support the Noah's Ark story, and pass it off as a "Parable" or "fictional story." Also, I've answered many questions of yours. I've told you that "I don't know" is an honest answer and you shouldn't be afraid to admit that, instead of lying by making something up. No, I would say that the story of the Ark is completely ridiculous and modern day science and geology already disproved it. Makes me question how you feel about incest (sex within the family).
@strkszone But put God into the equation,and the context of His Word,ANYTHING could happen (Garden of Eden,Flood,Exodus,Resurrection) And you wouldnt be dumb for thinking it.
@TheCh1212 Okay, I appologize for blatantly insulting you like that, I'm sorry. But you have to understand how outrageous you sound, and hopefully one day you'll come to see that. I encourage you to read both sides of the argument. You've contradicted yourself left and right (by applying my reasoning to other religions, and failing to do the same to your own). Essentially your proof for God is your Bible, that is it. I'm fairly certain you wouldn't be Christian if you never knew it existed!
@strkszone Its okay bro :) .And its a matter of perspective to me,you sound like a hardend hearted sinner who doesnt want to acknowledge his sin,who supresses the truth that he already knows because you dont want to be held responsible. And i have. I dont think i have,please tell me when i did. I actually think you did lol (you not believing in absolute truth when that itself is an absolute statement). Yes it is,just like man,and what science text books "tell" you is "truth" (PART 1)
@strkszone (PART 2) And of course i would not have been a Christian,thats why God gave me Grace i didnt SEEK God,in fact NO ONE does the Bible makes that proof which is absolutely true,God gave me grace by letting me hear and understand the Gospel,that i have broken the 10 commandments and if God gave me Justice i would end up in Hell,yet God loved me so much He died for me anyway. So yes,i wouldnt be if God hadnt showed me. I would have been a hypocrite otherwise
@TheCh1212 So you honestly believe that you deserve to be tortured.. forever for a crime you did not commit. But rather, because Eve ate an apple from a garden because a talking snake told her to, but she didn't know the difference between right and wrong before eating the apple, but God got mad at her anyways. So you believe EVERYONE who doesn't know God deserves hell? Well that's good to know. You're an immoral human being if you believe that. At least the hypocrites have a heart/compassion.
@strkszone Thats not really what i believe at all. Again,you commit a crime against your mom,grounded-police,jail-judge,prison-president,death,----GOD,Hell--- You just dont look at sin against a Holy God that way,you dont fear Him. And i do commit sin,ive lied,stolen,lusted,coveted and many others. And she did know the difference atleast to NOT eat the fruit like He told her. I believe that everyone believes in God,they just suppress the truth because they love to sin.
@TheCh1212 So you would torture your child in a basement forever because he didn't love you? Of course I don't fear him, I don't believe he exists, or that hell exists. Even if it did though, I would HATE him and say that you are an IDIOT to LOVE him. He would be an immoral prideful TYRANT. And No of course she didn't know the difference, that is what the fruit gave her the ability to think. I don't believe in sin and I sure as hell don't believe in God, and I'm still a completely moral person.
@strkszone But your not a child,your obviously a very smart person who thinks and knows right from wrong,you have a conscience to prove it. Doesnt matter what you believe,i could believe that trucks dont exist,but that doesnt mean anything because on that final day when i go out to the middle of the interstate my belief doesnt hold ground,i get killed. God cant be just loving,then He wouldnt be Just,where would child rapist and people who tortue the elderly go? (PART 1)
@TheCh1212 There is evidence supporting the fact that trucks exist. There is no evidence supporting the fact that God exists. You're right, you can believe evolution isn't true (which there is evidence for) and it doesn't mean that it isn't. If God is not all-loving then he is not "omnibenevolent" as Christians claim. I believe they cease to exist when they die, like everyone. No activity in the brain, would just be the same as before you were born. Nothing. We only get one shot at a good life.
@strkszone (PART 2) You could definitly see the justice for THOSE people wouldnt you? But your also not PERFECT yourself or God,and so God must see ALOT ALOT higher on sin then you do,He HAS to. Thats why all thieves and liars will have their part in the lake of fire and no adulterer will enter the kingdom of Heaven the Bible says. And He's not a tyrant He is just REALLY just lol you wouldnt say that to a Judge who sends people to the electric chair would you? of course not (PART 2)
@TheCh1212 That's wishful thinking. I'd love a justice system, but not where a child rapist who got saved can go to heaven, and a moral atheist can go to hell. Not where a torturer who is Christian can go to heaven, and a moral atheist can go to hell. In fact I'd go as far as to call your God a monster. Also, I don't believe even *those* people deserve eternity of burning for a finite crime. Maybe a certain length of time, not infinity. He is a tyrant for using his power that way, yes.
@strkszone (PART 3) And she knew not to DISOBEY God,since He told them from the beginning not to eat the fruit,when she ate it she experienced sin,thus immediately she knew she was naked. And like i said you dont have to believe in some things,your belief doesnt mean anything. And yes you are a moral person,thats a God given gift,you just dont want to also be morally responsible too,so you suppress the idea of God and deny everything,but please think about this,eternity if forever when you die.
@TheCh1212 No, you contradicted the Bible. She didn't KNOW anything the damn fruit was called the fruit of KNOWLEDGE for a reason. Hence if she didn't eat the fruit she'd have no knowledge. No knowledge = no KNOWING. You're saying my disbelief is a belief, don't be stupid. That's like saying me not having a hobby is a hobby. You haven't proven it's a God given gift. Exactly the opposite, having Jesus take all my blame is a great thing, but that's childish. I am responsible for MY actions.
@strkszone lol she wasnt dumb,remember her talking? She talked to the Serpent and even understood (mabe not fully *like consequence wise*) that God told her something NOT to do,thus,its BAD. Genesis 3:1"The woman said to the serpent,“We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden,but God did say,You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die” Obviously she wasnt that dumb to know not to disobey God. (PART 1)
@TheCh1212 Did she die after eating it? No? Did God lie to her? Yes? Did God just sin? Yes? I guess we figured out that he's infallible. Also, it doesn't matter what fairy tales you want to believe in Genesis is disproven already through the Theory of Evolution which is backed up by evidence. There is no evidence in Genesis. You say the evidence is enormous, but all you did was point to the Bible. You can't use the Bible to prove the Bible. I already did that for 5 years, nothing happened.
@strkszone Died spiritually,and also physically eventually. so Yes. Did God lie to her then? No. Did God sin? No. Evolution could never explain how non-life became life and nothing became something,and it never will. If i cant use the Bible to prove the Bible thats like me telling you to explain why you DONT believe in God and wait,you cant use ANYTHING you have seen,read,or heard or experienced to tell me lol (PART 1)
@TheCh1212 Because EVOLUTION DOESN'T EXPLAIN THAT. IT DOES NOT HAVE TO. WHAT IT DOES EXPLAIN is the origin of HUMAN kind. Adam and Eve were NOT the first humans. Eve was NOT made by a rib. And we were NOT made from DIRT! You can't use the Bible to prove the Bible, for the same reason you can't use Harry Potter to prove Harry Potter. Rejection of a belief requires no explanation, as it means you're not convinced by the person trying to prove it to you. Don't be a moron.
@strkszone (PART 2) Everybody believes in something. You just CHOOSE not to believe in God,even though the evidence is enormous. I didnt say i proved it,i said YOU can prove it. Just REPENT and TRUST in the Savior,oh wait,you love your sin too much and you would never do that. And your right you are responsible,you just dont want to hear the consequences,which if you dont have Christ,your sin is causing you to be condemned by a God who cannot have sin in His presence,to a prison called Hell
@TheCh1212 As I said previously, I don't believe in sin and I used to be Christian, get it through that thick skull of yours. A lot of atheists were former believers, who actually took the time to read the Bible and understand it and look at it critically. Yes, I'm responsible for what I do in this life, I don't pray to Jesus for forgiveness, because I know it's not that simple, whereas you think anything can be forgiven as long as you're saved. You sir are the definition of immorality.
@strkszone (PART 2) And like i said,you dont have too,God is real,you know He is real,and you know its wrong to do things from your God given conscience,your belief means nothing. No they werent,the Bible says that when you become a Christian you are "new creation" and new creations dont backslide,you use to be a Christian? then you must have knew the Lord,if you did then He is real,if you didnt then you were a false convert as Jesus talked about,you never repented. (PART 3)
@TheCh1212 I don't know he's real, hence why I'm agnostic atheist. If I knew he was real I'd believe he existed, don't be an idiot. You haven't proved that the conscience is God given. I already told you that the conscience is an expression of the mind through learned traits in your environment that forms your character. No God necessary. My lack of belief is not a belief. I *thought* I knew the Lord, I didn't. And I don't believe you do either, despite your claims. What did you do to convert?
@TheCh1212 The problem with Christianity is the fact that you cannot think. You are incapable of questioning and looking at evidence and thinking critically. I was a sincere Christian. However, I learned that God was childish, malevolent, evil, and in many ways a Tyrant. In the OT he endorsed slavery, rape, subservience of women, murder of those who believed differently, and murder of gays. If he is "unchanging" then that God is still the same God.
@TheCh1212 No no, I THOUGHT I knew the Lord when I was Christian. Hence why I'm not a Christian. No one can KNOW an UNKNOWABLE being. You read the Bible, I did too. The BIBLE is a BOOK written by MAN in the EARLY YEARS of CHRISTIANITY. WHO CLAIMED TO KNOW GOD. But as you know MAN is FALLIBLE. The Bible does NOT represent God's word clearly and if it did, it is utterly disturbing and revolting. I don't believe you know God either, otherwise he'd tell you what to say to "save" my soul too.
@strkszone (PART 4) You heard a man-centered Gospel probably where you had to say a prayer,and you would get happiness and fulfillment from your life,you "tried" it without repentance and trusting the Savior,and when reality smacked you in the face,you said forget this Christian thing. Thats a man-centered Gospel my friend. And you dont pray for Jesus to forgive you to become saved,you become saved so that when you sin THEN you can pray and be forgiven,until then,your prayers are an abomination.
@TheCh1212 I did pray to Jesus to be saved you absolute idiot. Talking to you is like talking to a wall. I was, in many ways a whole-hearted Christian. You're using a fallacy called the "No true scottsman" fallacy. I could argue that YOU sir, are not a true Christian, and in fact YOU sir would be going to hell by telling OTHERS that they are going to hell. Preaching HATRED and "Murdering in the heart" as you are. You sir are the abomination. I believe in equality and freedom. You are for tyranny
@strkszone lol you dont PRAY anything to be saved ahah thats what im trying to tell you if you had to DO something to be saved it wouldnt be GRACE lol and idc what its called,i dont go by my word i go by HIS.
@TheCh1212 So you didn't open your heart and ask Jesus to resolve you of your sins and kneel before the cross? You didn't beg the lord for forgiveness? Because THAT is PRAYER. How do you KNOW God gave you his grace and "saved" you? Hmm? What difference did you see in your life when you were changed. Because honestly I don't believe any of the shit that's been coming out of your mouth, since you have proven to believe in fairy tales that mommy and daddy told you when you were younger.
@strkszone lol heck no i didnt,that would mean that im saving myself. No i did exactly what the Bible says,what Jesus said,what Paul and all the other Apostles said,i Repented (TURNED from sin) and TRUSTed in the Savior (Not just "believed"). I know this,because the Bible confirms this by giving the Holy Spirit to live in you and work through you and build you spiritually producing spiritual fruit. (PART 1)
@TheCh1212 I did that as well. I said no to sin, but fell into sin, which I'm sure you've done multiple times even since you've been saved. Trusted in Jesus which is what defines Christianity. So I did that as well as asked for forgiveness, which you're meant to do. As an atheist, I don't even know what the word "Spiritual" means. If it means immaterial, I can claim that energy is spirit then, as is electricity.
@strkszone (PART 2) The difference was my lifestyle (aka Repentance lol) and other fruit actually Biblically there is. The fruit of the Spirit,Righteousness,Good Works,Thanksgiving,and Repentance.---And i wasnt told this as a child in fact i use to BE a FALSE CONVERT because of the "sinners prayer" for 9 YEARS TOO! Until i was shown Gods standard used for Judgement Day,the 10 Commandments,why and how i needed a Savior,that if i Repented and Trusted Christ (PART 2)
@TheCh1212 I had all those fruits as a Christian, and still have the "fruits" of Righteousness, Good works, and giving thanks. As far as I'm concerned you've lost since you have addressed my unicorn analogy, my harry potter analogy, and my pointing out of your application of the no true scottsman logical fallacy. Your heart is still the same, it pumps blood. Yes it's funny what the brain can do. You wanted to trust the savior so you want to do God's will, that's obvious.
@strkszone (PART 3) and when i repented and put my trust in the Savior,i would be given what the prophecy said Jesus would do,that God would give me a new heart with new desires to do God's Will,that i would be forgiven of every sin,and wouldnt go to Hell,but spend eternity with God in Heaven,and given the knowledge and ability to save others (yet not me but Christ) by the power of the Gospel by doing the Great Commission
@TheCh1212 I do not believe God forgave you of your sins, because obviously you're an immoral biggot who preaches hatred and condemns people by passing judgement on them, isn't that God's job? You were told that God would do all those things, but you have no proof that this is true. Did God actually tell you that you are forgiven? If he did I suggest you seek medical help immediately. You clearly aren't very good at saving others, me, being a primary example. All I'm doing is laughing at you.
@strkszone i teach what the Bible puts it as "He who believes not is condemmed ALREADY",im just showing you WHY you are. Gods job is to Judge,my job is to tell you of this judgement,if i knew it to be true and i DIDNT tell you i'd be worse off than the start. The Bible is proof. He told me through His word,and confirmed it with proof showing through my life. I dont save anyone,i just pray that your conscience convicts you to know you've broken His 10 Commandments and you need to Repent.
@TheCh1212 Again, referring to the Bible to make arguments when you have given me no reason to believe anything the Bible says is true. Also, I would rather be in hell that with a psychopathic, prideful, tyrannical, bafoon, that is your God. He would sooner let a repenting mass murderer, rapist, serial killer, child molester, into heaven having being "saved" than a moral atheist into heaven. The Bible is a book, it is not proof, there is this thing, it's called FICTION. There are many religions.
@TheCh1212 Ask MULTIPLE people who will confirm their religion with proof shown through THEIR life. Why don't you believe THEM? Why should I believe YOU. You just sound like a LUNATIC to me. Pray as much as you want, but hands that take action are far more useful than hands clasped in prayer. Pray to your God, and see if he answers your prayer. Pray to him and beg him to make me see the light right here, while talking to you. That's my challenge to you. Because honestly all I'm doing is laughing
@DeusExAstra yeah this guy is kinda depressing to listen to, I'm pretty sure he didn't sleep too well that night :/
@CrazyBluePrime yeah, like I always say, science will never prove the existence of god, because every time we unsolve something mysterious we can not call it "god" anymore
That was harsh. They weren't being in the slightest bit rude or anything, but you could just see this guy was stumbling over this stupid arguement & his head was getting ripped apart. The cosmological arguement isn't even that difficult, but that CUNT William Lane Craig has plastered a bunch of long words and foreign ideas over the top of it to make it sound flashy & clever. No wonder this guy's confused, listening to dishonest wordsmiths like Craig.
these two guys have no idea what there talking about. a being must be in time to create? omg that is lame. String theory says that interdementional beings arnt scientific blasphemy and who r u to say that outside our 3d universe a being cant act within it?
@AlexArnoldfotografie But those interdimentional beings also operate within causality. This guy is talking about something acting from no dimensions whatsoever. Which is logically inconsistent as "those two guys" correctly point out.
Maybe you should understand YOUR arguments before you start throwing them out into the comments eh?
many believe that the universe is a break in symmetry. basically the beginning of distinction. black/white, up/down, etc...this realm of symmetry is a unification of polarity..universes are the beginning of polarity, because of a break in unification..in this realm, the past present and future may exist simultaneously (timelessness) or up and down may be 1 direction. god could be this grand unification, which creates distinction between the past and future, by splitting the unification.
What's wrong with saying that the moment God created the universe is the moment at which the universe came into being?We know that causes and effects can be simultaneous, like a bowling ball causing a depression on a pillow.To me, this completely avoids the objections in the video about causality needing to be temporally based, because on this view, the creation is temporally based because the Creation and Time exist simultaneously.Is it impossible that causes and their effects be simultaneous?
Poor soul seeks truth but falls prey to bullshit. A beautiful impulse made ugly by the agenda of more intelligent and insidious minds. Just strikes me as a microcosm of the tragedy of human shortcomings. Stay strong fella! Keep looking!
@AegeanKing Yeah cause some dude talking out his ass would really destroy scientific fact. Let them try, oh wait, theologins have been trying for a long time, and fail whenever their temper tantrums dont completely drown out the voices of those they talk to.
@AegeanKing isnt he the same guy richard dawkins blew out of water in mexico?? and he is now tryin to get RD to debate him in UK/ AUS n cryin around that RD is not responding to his cry n RD said this guy talks out of his butt n is not worthy of a debate...isnt he the same guy who makes his story as he goes along???do yu really think yu can argue with somebody who makes up shit as they speak n lie n twist n manipulate words of others??that kind of debate would be eternal n can never end.
@chinamanspeakenlis Richard dawkins did not debate craig in Mexico. That was a group discussion, not even a debate. Secondly, one his fellow Atheists and Philosopher, Daniel Cane, called Dawkins a coward a couple days ago for not debating Craig. You have no idea what you are talking about, Craig is a master logician and philosopher and will eat dawkins alive. Dawkins fears Craig one on one. Sam Harris even admitted in his debate with Craig that Craig is known as the most formidable opponent.
This is kind of a sad call to listen to. This guy is obviously trying to understand the universe he lives in and seeking a rational explanation. Unfortunately he's found this completely bogus creationist crap and he doesnt have the education or intelligence to know that it's crap. This stuff is like mental cancer, preying on the minds of those that cant defend themselves from it.
@DeusExAstra Totally agree, I felt a bit sorry for him also, ... hopefully he won't take things personally & just go educate himself a bit more before making a similar attempt.
I thought the two hosts handled him very well / respectfully etc, ... pretty nice guys in my book as I doubt I would exhibit the same level of patience.
Be glad. Im in Texas and at times I can feel the stupid encroaching. It's like being at a bad party w/ loud music and just wanting to find the exit, only to discover the exits are all chained shut.
@Jussimania I know how you feel! Sometimes I have this huge urge to seek out these people and school them, but that wouldn't be that fair to them. I look forward to the day that they approach me irl again(I am too lazy to do it online. I have attempted and it's almost impossible to get people to learn when they are sheltered by "internet bravado")
@EddieBee83 I don't think any of the calls are staged - there are actually very few theist callers at all, it's mostly atheists. Big bang theory says nothing about "cause" - it explains (or attempts to) an event and it's aftermath. Nobody says there was no cause, just that assuming there was (and what it might have been) is nothing more than speculation.
Yes, it is true that everything the caller posited was speculation; however, your the objection that a being outside our known causal chain of events (universal time...i.e., so-called "bookkeeper" time in general relativity) is contradictory with the idea that such a being can operate in a causal manner (i.e., by creating the original singularity) is itself speculation as well, since, as you say, we have no experience with minds that do not exist in a non-physical way...
@technopagan724 ...in fact there is no way for us to know how "causality" (if such a concept could exist outside the framework of our universe's spacetime) would work outside our universe's spacetime since we have no experience with anything that does exist outside spacetime. If such an entity could or does exist, since it exists outside our spacetime, it is not bound by the laws or logic that apply within the universe, and we therefore have no way of even beginning to understand how it works
@MoonwalkerWorshiper It's not ad hominem. Like the caller, you're not familiar the topic you're discussing. Ad hominem is a logical fallacy that states because someone is bad that that fact disproves their argument. No one said his cosmological argument was wrong because he didn't understand it. It has logical flaws and is mere speculation. That's the objection to it, not that he was ignorant. However, to discuss something intelligently, one must understand the topic. That was their point.
@MoonwalkerWorshiper Yes, I am. If you watch part one, the hosts offered criticism of this cosmological argument (which is really just a variation on the classic Kalam Cosmological Argument, the argument from first cause). However, since the caller didn't understand the criticisms because he didn't even understand the premise of his own argument, continuing to debate it is silly.
Anyone familiar with debate knows that you should never bring up a point you aren't able to defend intelligently.
@massiahmassiah7 Not "who" created, "what" created. You are automatically ruling out natural causes by phrasing your question that way. "What" could also include a deity.
@SimoonSam No. I did no in what way state a deity. I said who created us? Simply this can conflict only to yourself. You say what, but you have no idea if it was a who. It may just be a what, but a what cannot simply be a nothing. It is something that existed. THIS existence, this little dot, calculated to be the first thing to create everything, is what resulted to what we are today. It began it all, but it may not have any ability to affect us now. However, it is our (physical) overall creator
@massiahmassiah7 "What" also includes "who", therefore it is better to ask "What created us" instead of "Who created us." The way you phrased your question is flawed. My point remains.
Causality requires TIME! You can't CAUSE TIME! He's assuming there is a (meta) time outside of time in which a creator could create time within (meta)time. This is crap. As Ricky Gervais would say to Karl, "He's talking total shit again."
i love how you can hand off something to stupid people and just let them unravel the entire theory... never underestimate the power of stupid people...
Here's a wild "what if". What if all the people who believe in a creator are the creator(s) and the people who dont were created by the creator(s). lol
Nothing would have to come from pure consciousness. If there is a creator, who created the creator? If there is not a creator then how do we explain ourselves and the universe?
The main points regarding creation or not regarding creation are valid points.
Are we all the creator though, living seperate lives?
2 is an assertion. It seems the universe already existed when time started, so perhaps there was no time when the universe did not exist, and so no beginning of it.
3 Therefore, the universe may or may not have a cause, but that it requires one remains unsupported.
How about the only reason there is time, is because it was created. But in all reality there is no time but it's ok to have a schedule. Before 2+2=4 was created, the equation didn't exist before, right?
@EddieBee83 Time is a man-made idea, along with logic and symbols. Therefore, the equation doesn't exist without man, what it represents remains but the symbols and the idea don't. And time is a symbol of sorts, used to represent a period between two or more events.
The idea of the equation didn't exist before. The equation itself still doesn't exist. We imagine it, and write some marks on paper that make others also imagine it. The marks exist, the neurons in your brain that think it exist... the equation does not. But leaving that aside, even with nobody to notice that there are two groups of two of something, yes there are still four of them. The number four still does not exist.
ok. so if we find out that evolution is wrong, bb never happened. and nothing evolve. does that porve god? NO, omg. there is no way to prove god, you cant prove something that isnt real. thats VERY hard, lol.
@gulbirk In my understanding evolution has to take place in the brain first before it can be applied externally. I don't really know whats true about life evolving but it is possible that our ancestors were genetically engineered. Atheism v.s. theism will also be the biggest debate i think, until we all get some answers. 2012, look out! lol, Who knows?!
@EddieBee83 Well no one have te exact true answer. but evolution is A FACT, you can debate it as long as you want, but if you choose not to believe it then you are simply just being ingorant and stupid.
'There must have been a cause, but there doesn't have to be a cause for my proposed cause!' Creationists keep proposing a solution when their rules say their solution is incorrect. There must have been a cause for god if god exists, and a cause for the cause that caused god to exist. It just goes on forever and it is posited in the cosmological argument that there are both no causal loops, or infinite causes. The argument really sinks itself.
@dookiecheez Basically, the cosmological argument is irrefutable and therefore refutes itself. But arguing against it does nothing, as the creationists will just say something along the lines of "But god is infinite" and then cover their ears and start shouting some incomprehensible bible bullshit to hide from the response.
The cosmological argument is not irrefutable, it poses false assumptions that can be shown to be false. It's also logically inept, why are you calling this thing god? Where did you get intelligence, I see no logical requirement for this first cause to be intelligent. Why are you posing the most complex explanation to precede the universe when complexity tends to arise slowly over time? Why bother, if you showed god to exist your scripture would be of no use.
Yeah,they dont make any sense,i can give you a reason why God doesnt need a "creator" because HE'S SPIRIT,(a.k.a immaterial) Everything else in this Universe IS material. God exists out of time,why? Not only did He create it,but also He is all knowing,we are not,how can you exists in rules of time,when you know everything?? Answer,He dont. If He was in the bounds of His creation,He would cease to be the perfect and flawless God that He is.
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 Your argument is circular. You've stated God is a spirit (or something that is immaterial). I can easily say that energy is immaterial, so is energy a spirit? Energy exists in the universe, and that is not material. My question is you claim God is a spirit, now prove it. What evidence do you have that he's a spirit? So God doesn't exist within the universe, meaning he can't operate within it, as you say, meaning prayer is bullshit. Therefore miracles do not occur according to you.
strkszone 1 month ago
@strkszone Doesnt mean it isnt true. Where did the initial energy come from?. When you repent and trust in Jesus,God actually said He will come and make His home IN YOU,and your "fruit" is the proof of God IN YOU. Besides that,is creation,I dont have to see God or anything for that thing to exist. The creation around is proof of a Creator. And yes God does operate within it,but He dwells outside of it,interacting with us and through us.
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 Yes it sorta does... "I can't explain (x) therefore God." It's a stupid argument to make. It doesn't solve anything, because as soon as we find the answer to that question, when another arises God will be put in there instead. The Greeks believed Zeus made lightning come down because they couldn't explain it, were they right? I see no fruits in me, sorry. Your nonsense is hilarious. You don't need to see it, but you need to have evidence, yes. What makes you say we're creations?
strkszone 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 I'm sorry but the argument is over, you're failing to reason with the most basic concepts of God, the fact that you have to resort to God of the gaps is just laughable. If you make a claim and want people to believe you, you need evidence for it. Whether you can see it or not makes no difference, if the evidence is sound then the proof is sound. There is no evidence for God. You just have a book that told you so, and you do believe in Fiction right?
strkszone 1 month ago
@strkszone Yet you cannot explain where the initial energy came from? And whos arguing? You can believe anything you want,just like the Greeks,doesnt mean its Truth,the Word of God is inspired,test it then lol. You see no fruits in you because you do not know God,your still an enemy to Him because of your sin. I say we're creations because no material and non-life creating other material and life is a scientific impossiblility. (PART 1)
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@strkszone (PART 2) And its not "i cant explain it so God did it" its,without God,it COULDNT HAVE BEEN DONE.
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 You haven't proved it can't be done without God, we just don't know how it was done. You don't answer a question that way. That is a presupposition and a false one, at that. Of course I cannot explain where it came from, I'm not going to lie to you and tell you I know where it did, no one does. Anyone who says otherwise is either stupid or lying. Exactly you can believe what you want, doesn't make it true, just like God. You don't know God either, who does? I don't believe in Sin.
strkszone 1 month ago
@strkszone lol "i cant (x) therefore God doesnt exist" lol talk about circular reasoning. Also talk about Pre-supposition "...no one does" lol Thats an absolute statement. You'd have to be God to say that there is no God,also i do know Him i told you if want to prove or disprove the Bible just do what it says,God actually said He WILL reveal Himself to you if you Repent and Trust in His Son. He'll give you a new heart of flesh. And doesnt matter if you do or dont...(PART 1)
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 No... it works like this. You make a claim, you back it up with evidence. I refer you back to the unicorn analogy. The default is disbelief until proven. Not vice versa, that leads to gullibility. No, I can clearly say there is no God, and I'm not God. In fact it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to say there is no God since that'd be a self contradiction. I was a Christian for 5 years, then I read the Bible and became an atheist. He didnt reveal himself, if he did to you, I suggest you get help.
strkszone 1 month ago
@strkszone (PART 2) There is another proof of God,its called the conscience=con(with) and science(knowledge) so when you sin you do it WITH KNOWLEDGE you supprese the Truth and deny it. You KNOW its wrong to Lie,Steal,Hate (which the Bible says is murder of the heart) lust=Adultery,. And Covet,these Laws the 10 Commandments is what God will Judge the world by on Judgment Day and your guilt will come out as proof of your sin,when you stand before a Holy and Righteous God.
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 Conscience is just my mind telling me what is good behavior instilled by ethics and moral values taught to me as a child. It is dependent on your environment and external stimulus. It's funny how other cultures that pre-date Christianity said it was wrong to Lie/Steal/Kill too. Nothing wrong with lust, it's attraction, if there was no lust there would be no sex. You have no proof a judgement day either. Sorry but what you've provided is not even remotely proof.
strkszone 1 month ago
@strkszone Doesnt mean there right thought,its called absolute Truth,you can be told raping children while you are a child is right,but it doesnt make it right. The foundation i base my opinions and morals is by God the only sound conclusion. And yes your right,you know what came before Christianity? Mosaic Law/Hebrew Roots,before that? Covenants that God has made with people since the beginning of our existence (starting with Adam-Noah-Abraham..so on so on) I do have proof,Gods Word.
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 I do not believe in absolute truths. A belief in an absolute truth would render someone close minded. There is objective truth based on evidence, but not absolute truth. Please read up on Secular Morality. If you base your morals by God then you're for killing people of other religions, slavery, subservience of women, and stoning of gays. The Chinese weren't Jewish/Hebrew. No, you have an edited book by a man claiming it's God's word's word.
strkszone 1 month ago
@strkszone Are you Absolutely sure that there is no Absolute Truth? If God is real,then how would it be wrong to do anything He says? Are we not all sinful and isnt sin so serious to a PERFECT and Holy and Flawless God that even sees are thought life that we deserve Hell and Death for committing such sin against Him? or mabe its just you dont WANT to look at it that way,because if it WAS true,then you WOULD be held responsible for your actions.. (PART 1)
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 Of course I'm not absolutely sure there is no absolute truth. Their very well could be, but it hasn't been demonstrated or proven. If God told you to murder your own son would you do it? According to many people who killed their children "God told them so" how do you discredit them? If you question him he'd just say "It's a part of God's plan" He is filled with flaws, that much is obvious. I don't think ANYONE deserves hell, and that hell is immoral making God immoral and hateful.
strkszone 1 month ago
@strkszone (PART 2) The Chinese came from their ancestors,who came from their ancestors just like an obvious family line all the way back to Noah's son Ham out of the 3 sons he had.
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 LMFAO!? YOU BELIEVE THE STORY ABOUT THE FUCKING ARK!?!?!? ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUSLY THAT STUPID!?!?!? Alright, I'm sorry but your stupidity is just mind bogglingly hystarical. Sir please read up on how big the boat would've been and how impossible it would have been to put 2 of every animal on there. Also, what would they eat without making the entire species extinct? Also, where were the dinosaurs? This is a fucking joke, Christians would laugh at you..
strkszone 1 month ago
@strkszone I'm pretty dumb,but yet i do know my Bible,so eh,i think Christians would agree if they know their Bible. I dont really feel really dumb talking to you though since ive answered all your questions perfectly and if you've noticed you havnt answered any lol. You could also say "how could all the animals get to the ark in the first place?" Then i would say the Key to the answer. "How did the door close?" I agree with you it would be IMPOSSIBLE for all that to happen on its own (PART 1)
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 Uhm, many Christians don't support the Noah's Ark story, and pass it off as a "Parable" or "fictional story." Also, I've answered many questions of yours. I've told you that "I don't know" is an honest answer and you shouldn't be afraid to admit that, instead of lying by making something up. No, I would say that the story of the Ark is completely ridiculous and modern day science and geology already disproved it. Makes me question how you feel about incest (sex within the family).
strkszone 1 month ago
@strkszone But put God into the equation,and the context of His Word,ANYTHING could happen (Garden of Eden,Flood,Exodus,Resurrection) And you wouldnt be dumb for thinking it.
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 Okay, I appologize for blatantly insulting you like that, I'm sorry. But you have to understand how outrageous you sound, and hopefully one day you'll come to see that. I encourage you to read both sides of the argument. You've contradicted yourself left and right (by applying my reasoning to other religions, and failing to do the same to your own). Essentially your proof for God is your Bible, that is it. I'm fairly certain you wouldn't be Christian if you never knew it existed!
strkszone 1 month ago
@strkszone Its okay bro :) .And its a matter of perspective to me,you sound like a hardend hearted sinner who doesnt want to acknowledge his sin,who supresses the truth that he already knows because you dont want to be held responsible. And i have. I dont think i have,please tell me when i did. I actually think you did lol (you not believing in absolute truth when that itself is an absolute statement). Yes it is,just like man,and what science text books "tell" you is "truth" (PART 1)
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@strkszone (PART 2) And of course i would not have been a Christian,thats why God gave me Grace i didnt SEEK God,in fact NO ONE does the Bible makes that proof which is absolutely true,God gave me grace by letting me hear and understand the Gospel,that i have broken the 10 commandments and if God gave me Justice i would end up in Hell,yet God loved me so much He died for me anyway. So yes,i wouldnt be if God hadnt showed me. I would have been a hypocrite otherwise
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 So you honestly believe that you deserve to be tortured.. forever for a crime you did not commit. But rather, because Eve ate an apple from a garden because a talking snake told her to, but she didn't know the difference between right and wrong before eating the apple, but God got mad at her anyways. So you believe EVERYONE who doesn't know God deserves hell? Well that's good to know. You're an immoral human being if you believe that. At least the hypocrites have a heart/compassion.
strkszone 1 month ago
@strkszone Thats not really what i believe at all. Again,you commit a crime against your mom,grounded-police,jail-judge,prison-president,death,----GOD,Hell--- You just dont look at sin against a Holy God that way,you dont fear Him. And i do commit sin,ive lied,stolen,lusted,coveted and many others. And she did know the difference atleast to NOT eat the fruit like He told her. I believe that everyone believes in God,they just suppress the truth because they love to sin.
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 So you would torture your child in a basement forever because he didn't love you? Of course I don't fear him, I don't believe he exists, or that hell exists. Even if it did though, I would HATE him and say that you are an IDIOT to LOVE him. He would be an immoral prideful TYRANT. And No of course she didn't know the difference, that is what the fruit gave her the ability to think. I don't believe in sin and I sure as hell don't believe in God, and I'm still a completely moral person.
strkszone 1 month ago
@strkszone But your not a child,your obviously a very smart person who thinks and knows right from wrong,you have a conscience to prove it. Doesnt matter what you believe,i could believe that trucks dont exist,but that doesnt mean anything because on that final day when i go out to the middle of the interstate my belief doesnt hold ground,i get killed. God cant be just loving,then He wouldnt be Just,where would child rapist and people who tortue the elderly go? (PART 1)
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 There is evidence supporting the fact that trucks exist. There is no evidence supporting the fact that God exists. You're right, you can believe evolution isn't true (which there is evidence for) and it doesn't mean that it isn't. If God is not all-loving then he is not "omnibenevolent" as Christians claim. I believe they cease to exist when they die, like everyone. No activity in the brain, would just be the same as before you were born. Nothing. We only get one shot at a good life.
strkszone 1 month ago
@strkszone (PART 2) You could definitly see the justice for THOSE people wouldnt you? But your also not PERFECT yourself or God,and so God must see ALOT ALOT higher on sin then you do,He HAS to. Thats why all thieves and liars will have their part in the lake of fire and no adulterer will enter the kingdom of Heaven the Bible says. And He's not a tyrant He is just REALLY just lol you wouldnt say that to a Judge who sends people to the electric chair would you? of course not (PART 2)
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 That's wishful thinking. I'd love a justice system, but not where a child rapist who got saved can go to heaven, and a moral atheist can go to hell. Not where a torturer who is Christian can go to heaven, and a moral atheist can go to hell. In fact I'd go as far as to call your God a monster. Also, I don't believe even *those* people deserve eternity of burning for a finite crime. Maybe a certain length of time, not infinity. He is a tyrant for using his power that way, yes.
strkszone 1 month ago
@strkszone (PART 3) And she knew not to DISOBEY God,since He told them from the beginning not to eat the fruit,when she ate it she experienced sin,thus immediately she knew she was naked. And like i said you dont have to believe in some things,your belief doesnt mean anything. And yes you are a moral person,thats a God given gift,you just dont want to also be morally responsible too,so you suppress the idea of God and deny everything,but please think about this,eternity if forever when you die.
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 No, you contradicted the Bible. She didn't KNOW anything the damn fruit was called the fruit of KNOWLEDGE for a reason. Hence if she didn't eat the fruit she'd have no knowledge. No knowledge = no KNOWING. You're saying my disbelief is a belief, don't be stupid. That's like saying me not having a hobby is a hobby. You haven't proven it's a God given gift. Exactly the opposite, having Jesus take all my blame is a great thing, but that's childish. I am responsible for MY actions.
strkszone 1 month ago
@strkszone lol she wasnt dumb,remember her talking? She talked to the Serpent and even understood (mabe not fully *like consequence wise*) that God told her something NOT to do,thus,its BAD. Genesis 3:1"The woman said to the serpent,“We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden,but God did say,You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die” Obviously she wasnt that dumb to know not to disobey God. (PART 1)
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 Did she die after eating it? No? Did God lie to her? Yes? Did God just sin? Yes? I guess we figured out that he's infallible. Also, it doesn't matter what fairy tales you want to believe in Genesis is disproven already through the Theory of Evolution which is backed up by evidence. There is no evidence in Genesis. You say the evidence is enormous, but all you did was point to the Bible. You can't use the Bible to prove the Bible. I already did that for 5 years, nothing happened.
strkszone 1 month ago
@strkszone Died spiritually,and also physically eventually. so Yes. Did God lie to her then? No. Did God sin? No. Evolution could never explain how non-life became life and nothing became something,and it never will. If i cant use the Bible to prove the Bible thats like me telling you to explain why you DONT believe in God and wait,you cant use ANYTHING you have seen,read,or heard or experienced to tell me lol (PART 1)
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 Because EVOLUTION DOESN'T EXPLAIN THAT. IT DOES NOT HAVE TO. WHAT IT DOES EXPLAIN is the origin of HUMAN kind. Adam and Eve were NOT the first humans. Eve was NOT made by a rib. And we were NOT made from DIRT! You can't use the Bible to prove the Bible, for the same reason you can't use Harry Potter to prove Harry Potter. Rejection of a belief requires no explanation, as it means you're not convinced by the person trying to prove it to you. Don't be a moron.
strkszone 1 month ago
@strkszone (PART 2) Everybody believes in something. You just CHOOSE not to believe in God,even though the evidence is enormous. I didnt say i proved it,i said YOU can prove it. Just REPENT and TRUST in the Savior,oh wait,you love your sin too much and you would never do that. And your right you are responsible,you just dont want to hear the consequences,which if you dont have Christ,your sin is causing you to be condemned by a God who cannot have sin in His presence,to a prison called Hell
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 As I said previously, I don't believe in sin and I used to be Christian, get it through that thick skull of yours. A lot of atheists were former believers, who actually took the time to read the Bible and understand it and look at it critically. Yes, I'm responsible for what I do in this life, I don't pray to Jesus for forgiveness, because I know it's not that simple, whereas you think anything can be forgiven as long as you're saved. You sir are the definition of immorality.
strkszone 1 month ago
@strkszone (PART 2) And like i said,you dont have too,God is real,you know He is real,and you know its wrong to do things from your God given conscience,your belief means nothing. No they werent,the Bible says that when you become a Christian you are "new creation" and new creations dont backslide,you use to be a Christian? then you must have knew the Lord,if you did then He is real,if you didnt then you were a false convert as Jesus talked about,you never repented. (PART 3)
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 I don't know he's real, hence why I'm agnostic atheist. If I knew he was real I'd believe he existed, don't be an idiot. You haven't proved that the conscience is God given. I already told you that the conscience is an expression of the mind through learned traits in your environment that forms your character. No God necessary. My lack of belief is not a belief. I *thought* I knew the Lord, I didn't. And I don't believe you do either, despite your claims. What did you do to convert?
strkszone 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 The problem with Christianity is the fact that you cannot think. You are incapable of questioning and looking at evidence and thinking critically. I was a sincere Christian. However, I learned that God was childish, malevolent, evil, and in many ways a Tyrant. In the OT he endorsed slavery, rape, subservience of women, murder of those who believed differently, and murder of gays. If he is "unchanging" then that God is still the same God.
strkszone 1 month ago
@strkszone SO you KNEW the Lord then when you were a Christian?
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 No no, I THOUGHT I knew the Lord when I was Christian. Hence why I'm not a Christian. No one can KNOW an UNKNOWABLE being. You read the Bible, I did too. The BIBLE is a BOOK written by MAN in the EARLY YEARS of CHRISTIANITY. WHO CLAIMED TO KNOW GOD. But as you know MAN is FALLIBLE. The Bible does NOT represent God's word clearly and if it did, it is utterly disturbing and revolting. I don't believe you know God either, otherwise he'd tell you what to say to "save" my soul too.
strkszone 1 month ago
@strkszone (PART 4) You heard a man-centered Gospel probably where you had to say a prayer,and you would get happiness and fulfillment from your life,you "tried" it without repentance and trusting the Savior,and when reality smacked you in the face,you said forget this Christian thing. Thats a man-centered Gospel my friend. And you dont pray for Jesus to forgive you to become saved,you become saved so that when you sin THEN you can pray and be forgiven,until then,your prayers are an abomination.
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 I did pray to Jesus to be saved you absolute idiot. Talking to you is like talking to a wall. I was, in many ways a whole-hearted Christian. You're using a fallacy called the "No true scottsman" fallacy. I could argue that YOU sir, are not a true Christian, and in fact YOU sir would be going to hell by telling OTHERS that they are going to hell. Preaching HATRED and "Murdering in the heart" as you are. You sir are the abomination. I believe in equality and freedom. You are for tyranny
strkszone 1 month ago
@strkszone lol you dont PRAY anything to be saved ahah thats what im trying to tell you if you had to DO something to be saved it wouldnt be GRACE lol and idc what its called,i dont go by my word i go by HIS.
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 So you didn't open your heart and ask Jesus to resolve you of your sins and kneel before the cross? You didn't beg the lord for forgiveness? Because THAT is PRAYER. How do you KNOW God gave you his grace and "saved" you? Hmm? What difference did you see in your life when you were changed. Because honestly I don't believe any of the shit that's been coming out of your mouth, since you have proven to believe in fairy tales that mommy and daddy told you when you were younger.
strkszone 1 month ago
@strkszone lol heck no i didnt,that would mean that im saving myself. No i did exactly what the Bible says,what Jesus said,what Paul and all the other Apostles said,i Repented (TURNED from sin) and TRUSTed in the Savior (Not just "believed"). I know this,because the Bible confirms this by giving the Holy Spirit to live in you and work through you and build you spiritually producing spiritual fruit. (PART 1)
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 I did that as well. I said no to sin, but fell into sin, which I'm sure you've done multiple times even since you've been saved. Trusted in Jesus which is what defines Christianity. So I did that as well as asked for forgiveness, which you're meant to do. As an atheist, I don't even know what the word "Spiritual" means. If it means immaterial, I can claim that energy is spirit then, as is electricity.
strkszone 1 month ago
@strkszone (PART 2) The difference was my lifestyle (aka Repentance lol) and other fruit actually Biblically there is. The fruit of the Spirit,Righteousness,Good Works,Thanksgiving,and Repentance.---And i wasnt told this as a child in fact i use to BE a FALSE CONVERT because of the "sinners prayer" for 9 YEARS TOO! Until i was shown Gods standard used for Judgement Day,the 10 Commandments,why and how i needed a Savior,that if i Repented and Trusted Christ (PART 2)
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 I had all those fruits as a Christian, and still have the "fruits" of Righteousness, Good works, and giving thanks. As far as I'm concerned you've lost since you have addressed my unicorn analogy, my harry potter analogy, and my pointing out of your application of the no true scottsman logical fallacy. Your heart is still the same, it pumps blood. Yes it's funny what the brain can do. You wanted to trust the savior so you want to do God's will, that's obvious.
strkszone 1 month ago
@strkszone (PART 3) and when i repented and put my trust in the Savior,i would be given what the prophecy said Jesus would do,that God would give me a new heart with new desires to do God's Will,that i would be forgiven of every sin,and wouldnt go to Hell,but spend eternity with God in Heaven,and given the knowledge and ability to save others (yet not me but Christ) by the power of the Gospel by doing the Great Commission
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 I do not believe God forgave you of your sins, because obviously you're an immoral biggot who preaches hatred and condemns people by passing judgement on them, isn't that God's job? You were told that God would do all those things, but you have no proof that this is true. Did God actually tell you that you are forgiven? If he did I suggest you seek medical help immediately. You clearly aren't very good at saving others, me, being a primary example. All I'm doing is laughing at you.
strkszone 1 month ago
@strkszone i teach what the Bible puts it as "He who believes not is condemmed ALREADY",im just showing you WHY you are. Gods job is to Judge,my job is to tell you of this judgement,if i knew it to be true and i DIDNT tell you i'd be worse off than the start. The Bible is proof. He told me through His word,and confirmed it with proof showing through my life. I dont save anyone,i just pray that your conscience convicts you to know you've broken His 10 Commandments and you need to Repent.
TheCh1212 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 Again, referring to the Bible to make arguments when you have given me no reason to believe anything the Bible says is true. Also, I would rather be in hell that with a psychopathic, prideful, tyrannical, bafoon, that is your God. He would sooner let a repenting mass murderer, rapist, serial killer, child molester, into heaven having being "saved" than a moral atheist into heaven. The Bible is a book, it is not proof, there is this thing, it's called FICTION. There are many religions.
strkszone 1 month ago
@TheCh1212 Ask MULTIPLE people who will confirm their religion with proof shown through THEIR life. Why don't you believe THEM? Why should I believe YOU. You just sound like a LUNATIC to me. Pray as much as you want, but hands that take action are far more useful than hands clasped in prayer. Pray to your God, and see if he answers your prayer. Pray to him and beg him to make me see the light right here, while talking to you. That's my challenge to you. Because honestly all I'm doing is laughing
strkszone 1 month ago
I like how he's been real nice to him when explaining what was wrong with ideas
InfinityDz 1 month ago
@DeusExAstra yeah this guy is kinda depressing to listen to, I'm pretty sure he didn't sleep too well that night :/
@CrazyBluePrime yeah, like I always say, science will never prove the existence of god, because every time we unsolve something mysterious we can not call it "god" anymore
InfinityDz 1 month ago
The great thing about xtians is that no matter how dumb you are, you feel smart when you meet one.
lewisner 2 months ago
That was harsh. They weren't being in the slightest bit rude or anything, but you could just see this guy was stumbling over this stupid arguement & his head was getting ripped apart. The cosmological arguement isn't even that difficult, but that CUNT William Lane Craig has plastered a bunch of long words and foreign ideas over the top of it to make it sound flashy & clever. No wonder this guy's confused, listening to dishonest wordsmiths like Craig.
MrLittletomdj 2 months ago
After the call he ate one of his crayons.
taffwob 3 months ago 2
jesus christ this guy is a fucking moron
54NT14G0 4 months ago
Actually time is a man-made figure, everything is everlasting so there always was and will be a universe that is ever-expanding
64notorious 4 months ago
I love to watch a battle of wits when one is unarmed.
cdhanks 5 months ago 4
For the thousand time!
Our time began with the big bang, not "universal" time(multiverse, cyclic Universe etc.).
baldurus1 5 months ago
@baldurus1 Actually time is just a concept by which we measure change. We can't measure change before the BB so time is irrelevant.
lewisner 2 months ago
@lewisner Well actually movement, but yes you're right.
But remember i'm talking to people who believe in invisible sky daddies, so i'm keeping it as basic as possible.
baldurus1 2 months ago
@baldurus1 Lol point taken.
lewisner 2 months ago
This poor bastard has been taken over by the woo-woo.
alianchild 6 months ago
these two guys have no idea what there talking about. a being must be in time to create? omg that is lame. String theory says that interdementional beings arnt scientific blasphemy and who r u to say that outside our 3d universe a being cant act within it?
AlexArnoldfotografie 7 months ago
@AlexArnoldfotografie That is not really the issue though. That thing would have had to be created someway aswell.
pepparmostheelder 5 months ago
@AlexArnoldfotografie But those interdimentional beings also operate within causality. This guy is talking about something acting from no dimensions whatsoever. Which is logically inconsistent as "those two guys" correctly point out.
Maybe you should understand YOUR arguments before you start throwing them out into the comments eh?
Peace.
TheAlmightyJod 5 months ago
@AlexArnoldfotografie Who created the time and space that the being occupied when creating our time and space?
baldurus1 5 months ago
many believe that the universe is a break in symmetry. basically the beginning of distinction. black/white, up/down, etc...this realm of symmetry is a unification of polarity..universes are the beginning of polarity, because of a break in unification..in this realm, the past present and future may exist simultaneously (timelessness) or up and down may be 1 direction. god could be this grand unification, which creates distinction between the past and future, by splitting the unification.
itzahazylife 7 months ago
How could a disembodied mind manipulate matter to form the Universe.
lewisner 7 months ago
@lewisner What is a "disembodied mind" anyway? I'ld love a creatard define that in a meaningfull way.
ScientificBob 7 months ago
@ScientificBob Or get them to explain ANYTHING.
lewisner 7 months ago
I like how he didn't understand what a source is. He brought a knife to a nuclear war.
PluralOfEverything 8 months ago
Wow, I actually feel bad for a caller for once. LOL
XSDarkMoonZX 8 months ago
divine duality. look it up
VladSarpe 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
What's wrong with saying that the moment God created the universe is the moment at which the universe came into being?We know that causes and effects can be simultaneous, like a bowling ball causing a depression on a pillow.To me, this completely avoids the objections in the video about causality needing to be temporally based, because on this view, the creation is temporally based because the Creation and Time exist simultaneously.Is it impossible that causes and their effects be simultaneous?
Nyarl3 8 months ago
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Nyarl3 8 months ago
Haha! This guy is almost cute! "Bigger boys made me say it."
saintlybastard 8 months ago
M-Theory FTW!
hanyuo 8 months ago
Poor soul seeks truth but falls prey to bullshit. A beautiful impulse made ugly by the agenda of more intelligent and insidious minds. Just strikes me as a microcosm of the tragedy of human shortcomings. Stay strong fella! Keep looking!
akallabror 9 months ago
Unfortunately the start of the Universe do also defy causality, and the Universe still exists.
ExcaliburClan 9 months ago
God defies the law of causality, and therefore God does not exist!!!
johnedwards1968 9 months ago 2
He doesnt even understand the arguement hes trying to make
deathman1021 9 months ago 2
William Lane Craig would destroy these retards in a debate. That is, if they could find time to leave their mothers basement.
AegeanKing 10 months ago
@AegeanKing Yeah cause some dude talking out his ass would really destroy scientific fact. Let them try, oh wait, theologins have been trying for a long time, and fail whenever their temper tantrums dont completely drown out the voices of those they talk to.
deathman1021 9 months ago
@AegeanKing isnt he the same guy richard dawkins blew out of water in mexico?? and he is now tryin to get RD to debate him in UK/ AUS n cryin around that RD is not responding to his cry n RD said this guy talks out of his butt n is not worthy of a debate...isnt he the same guy who makes his story as he goes along???do yu really think yu can argue with somebody who makes up shit as they speak n lie n twist n manipulate words of others??that kind of debate would be eternal n can never end.
chinamanspeakenlis 9 months ago
@chinamanspeakenlis Richard dawkins did not debate craig in Mexico. That was a group discussion, not even a debate. Secondly, one his fellow Atheists and Philosopher, Daniel Cane, called Dawkins a coward a couple days ago for not debating Craig. You have no idea what you are talking about, Craig is a master logician and philosopher and will eat dawkins alive. Dawkins fears Craig one on one. Sam Harris even admitted in his debate with Craig that Craig is known as the most formidable opponent.
AegeanKing 9 months ago
@AegeanKing That may be true, but this particular argument that this caller is citing from Craig, is really stupid and reaks of fallacies.
LondonIrishRover 9 months ago
I love how people love referencing science and logic for religious beliefs. Saying that it's logical or scientific does not make it so.
CrazyBluePrime 10 months ago 31
@CrazyBluePrime It's similar to the argument, 'Your scientific and/or atheist views are religious/faith based and therefore invalid.'
57worldwide 7 months ago
This guy is painfully stupid.
brogin 10 months ago 3
This is kind of a sad call to listen to. This guy is obviously trying to understand the universe he lives in and seeking a rational explanation. Unfortunately he's found this completely bogus creationist crap and he doesnt have the education or intelligence to know that it's crap. This stuff is like mental cancer, preying on the minds of those that cant defend themselves from it.
DeusExAstra 11 months ago 74
@DeusExAstra Agreed. Religion preys on ignorance, and then encourages more.
BlckSbthMan 10 months ago 2
@DeusExAstra Totally agree, I felt a bit sorry for him also, ... hopefully he won't take things personally & just go educate himself a bit more before making a similar attempt.
I thought the two hosts handled him very well / respectfully etc, ... pretty nice guys in my book as I doubt I would exhibit the same level of patience.
PiskieBenWa 3 months ago
"because it's a MI-IND!" lol!
rickelmonoggin 11 months ago 3
Martin does a great job here :D "I don't even think you understand the argument you are trying to make. You can't even pronounce half of the words!"
I love how the caller tries to pass it off as his own thinking. It is BLINDINGLY obvious that it's not, and he doesn't know what he's talking about.
c0rp53f4c3 11 months ago
Man I ITCH to educate these kind of people! SUCH a shame there aren't many morons here in Finland... :(
Jussimania 1 year ago 3
@Jussimania
Be glad. Im in Texas and at times I can feel the stupid encroaching. It's like being at a bad party w/ loud music and just wanting to find the exit, only to discover the exits are all chained shut.
sakar181 11 months ago
@Jussimania I know how you feel! Sometimes I have this huge urge to seek out these people and school them, but that wouldn't be that fair to them. I look forward to the day that they approach me irl again(I am too lazy to do it online. I have attempted and it's almost impossible to get people to learn when they are sheltered by "internet bravado")
c0rp53f4c3 11 months ago
@Jussimania Finland ! WOO !
rrenvall 8 months ago
Why did the first cause keep in existing after it was caused?
gulbirk 1 year ago
I think alot of the callers are staged. Not all but alot. Why does the big bang theory exclude a cause?
EddieBee83 1 year ago
@EddieBee83 I don't think any of the calls are staged - there are actually very few theist callers at all, it's mostly atheists. Big bang theory says nothing about "cause" - it explains (or attempts to) an event and it's aftermath. Nobody says there was no cause, just that assuming there was (and what it might have been) is nothing more than speculation.
Ellie8969 1 year ago
i know whats wrong with this caller, google Dunning–Kruger effect.... he just dont get it lol
RADO420 1 year ago
Yes, it is true that everything the caller posited was speculation; however, your the objection that a being outside our known causal chain of events (universal time...i.e., so-called "bookkeeper" time in general relativity) is contradictory with the idea that such a being can operate in a causal manner (i.e., by creating the original singularity) is itself speculation as well, since, as you say, we have no experience with minds that do not exist in a non-physical way...
technopagan724 1 year ago
@technopagan724 ...in fact there is no way for us to know how "causality" (if such a concept could exist outside the framework of our universe's spacetime) would work outside our universe's spacetime since we have no experience with anything that does exist outside spacetime. If such an entity could or does exist, since it exists outside our spacetime, it is not bound by the laws or logic that apply within the universe, and we therefore have no way of even beginning to understand how it works
technopagan724 1 year ago
Once again the atheists gets ad hominem with the callers
MoonwalkerWorshiper 1 year ago
@MoonwalkerWorshiper It was necessary and valid. Comprehension of an argument is a necessary prerequisite for defending it.
SimoonSam 1 year ago
@MoonwalkerWorshiper It's not ad hominem. Like the caller, you're not familiar the topic you're discussing. Ad hominem is a logical fallacy that states because someone is bad that that fact disproves their argument. No one said his cosmological argument was wrong because he didn't understand it. It has logical flaws and is mere speculation. That's the objection to it, not that he was ignorant. However, to discuss something intelligently, one must understand the topic. That was their point.
LordBizarre112233 1 year ago
@LordBizarre112233 "No one said his cosmological argument was wrong because he didn't understand it." Not sure about that. You sure?
MoonwalkerWorshiper 1 year ago
@MoonwalkerWorshiper Yes, I am. If you watch part one, the hosts offered criticism of this cosmological argument (which is really just a variation on the classic Kalam Cosmological Argument, the argument from first cause). However, since the caller didn't understand the criticisms because he didn't even understand the premise of his own argument, continuing to debate it is silly.
Anyone familiar with debate knows that you should never bring up a point you aren't able to defend intelligently.
LordBizarre112233 1 year ago 2
@LordBizarre112233 I suppose you're right.
MoonwalkerWorshiper 1 year ago
Science proves that the universe is created 15 billion years ago... created? Who created us?
massiahmassiah7 1 year ago
@massiahmassiah7 Not "who" created, "what" created. You are automatically ruling out natural causes by phrasing your question that way. "What" could also include a deity.
SimoonSam 1 year ago
@SimoonSam No. I did no in what way state a deity. I said who created us? Simply this can conflict only to yourself. You say what, but you have no idea if it was a who. It may just be a what, but a what cannot simply be a nothing. It is something that existed. THIS existence, this little dot, calculated to be the first thing to create everything, is what resulted to what we are today. It began it all, but it may not have any ability to affect us now. However, it is our (physical) overall creator
massiahmassiah7 1 year ago
@massiahmassiah7 "What" also includes "who", therefore it is better to ask "What created us" instead of "Who created us." The way you phrased your question is flawed. My point remains.
SimoonSam 1 year ago
Causality requires TIME! You can't CAUSE TIME! He's assuming there is a (meta) time outside of time in which a creator could create time within (meta)time. This is crap. As Ricky Gervais would say to Karl, "He's talking total shit again."
greyeyed123 1 year ago
IM BEING RATIONAL lolololol
LBTennis 1 year ago
i love how you can hand off something to stupid people and just let them unravel the entire theory... never underestimate the power of stupid people...
WowUrFcknHxC 1 year ago
Yeah, call back when Jeff is on. He'll rip you a new asshole.
tctheunbeliever 1 year ago
OMG!! They killed Kenny!
Capcomski 1 year ago 2
I think with this guy they should use the same language you use for stupid children.
Small simple words.
Shavarnarak 1 year ago
Oh...ouch man. You called him an idiot. Please refrain from doing that. He might deserve it but it hurts my ears :p
Existentialisht 1 year ago
@Existentialisht
I also find it insulting to idiots.
rkyeun 1 year ago
he's just concluding
TheOnemandigitaljam 1 year ago
There are sound arguments for the existence of God, just no sound evidence. Sometimes a priori logic isn't enough
MacabreManifesto 1 year ago
@MacabreManifesto the only "sound evidence" for God is the Fact that Men fear what they do not understand.
Jayjon81 1 year ago
oh what a retard
fuck cant ever read
ptica11 1 year ago
Here's a wild "what if". What if all the people who believe in a creator are the creator(s) and the people who dont were created by the creator(s). lol
Nothing would have to come from pure consciousness. If there is a creator, who created the creator? If there is not a creator then how do we explain ourselves and the universe?
The main points regarding creation or not regarding creation are valid points.
Are we all the creator though, living seperate lives?
EddieBee83 1 year ago
The more of these shows I watch, the more embarrassed I am that I used to be a christian. I wonder if I was this stupid too.
threeholerhauler 1 year ago
@threeholerhauler If you turned from being a Christian to a atheist im sure you are not stupid. I have respect for you.
shawndimery 1 year ago
@threeholerhauler If you were, you're all better now. ;)
slamdrump 1 year ago
This argument:
1. What begins to exist has a cause.
2. The Universe began to exist.
3. Therefore, the Universe has a cause.
Obvious counter:
4. That cause began to exist.
5. Therefore, that cause has a cause.
6. Repeat 4 and 5 infinitely.
silencesoloud12 1 year ago
@silencesoloud12 *4. That cause exists.
5. That cause must have a beginning to exist.
6. Therefore, that cause has a cause.
7. Repeat 4-6 infinitely.
silencesoloud12 1 year ago
@silencesoloud12
1 is true.
2 is an assertion. It seems the universe already existed when time started, so perhaps there was no time when the universe did not exist, and so no beginning of it.
3 Therefore, the universe may or may not have a cause, but that it requires one remains unsupported.
rkyeun 1 year ago
Idea - evidence + assumption of validity = creationism.
Idea + evidence + assumption of validity upon gathering and reviewing evidence = science.
silencesoloud12 1 year ago
@silencesoloud12
Wrong equation for the science.
Idea + evidence - assumption of validity + (dissenting competition * peer review required) + continuing scrutiny forever = science.
rkyeun 1 year ago
@rkyeun Good point. I guess I over simplified it a bit too much.
silencesoloud12 1 year ago
@silencesoloud12
Oh, I'm sure I did too. BUT LIKE SCIENCE if someone wants to add to the equation to make it more accurate, go for it. :D
rkyeun 1 year ago
I love creationists. They make me feel so much smarter than I really am.
88Keyz101 1 year ago
How about the only reason there is time, is because it was created. But in all reality there is no time but it's ok to have a schedule. Before 2+2=4 was created, the equation didn't exist before, right?
EddieBee83 1 year ago
@EddieBee83 Time is a man-made idea, along with logic and symbols. Therefore, the equation doesn't exist without man, what it represents remains but the symbols and the idea don't. And time is a symbol of sorts, used to represent a period between two or more events.
silencesoloud12 1 year ago
@EddieBee83
The idea of the equation didn't exist before. The equation itself still doesn't exist. We imagine it, and write some marks on paper that make others also imagine it. The marks exist, the neurons in your brain that think it exist... the equation does not. But leaving that aside, even with nobody to notice that there are two groups of two of something, yes there are still four of them. The number four still does not exist.
rkyeun 1 year ago
He probably found the Argument in Cliff's Notes.
Frostbite12211983 1 year ago
ok. so if we find out that evolution is wrong, bb never happened. and nothing evolve. does that porve god? NO, omg. there is no way to prove god, you cant prove something that isnt real. thats VERY hard, lol.
gulbirk 1 year ago
@gulbirk In my understanding evolution has to take place in the brain first before it can be applied externally. I don't really know whats true about life evolving but it is possible that our ancestors were genetically engineered. Atheism v.s. theism will also be the biggest debate i think, until we all get some answers. 2012, look out! lol, Who knows?!
EddieBee83 1 year ago
@EddieBee83 Well no one have te exact true answer. but evolution is A FACT, you can debate it as long as you want, but if you choose not to believe it then you are simply just being ingorant and stupid.
gulbirk 1 year ago
The invisible and the inexistant look verry much alike!
ray38montreal 1 year ago 3
@ray38montreal The intangible feel a lot like the false as well.
silencesoloud12 1 year ago
I almost feel bad for the guy.
SouthernOregonOrgani 1 year ago 50
owned bitch!
rebelsouljaz 1 year ago
'There must have been a cause, but there doesn't have to be a cause for my proposed cause!' Creationists keep proposing a solution when their rules say their solution is incorrect. There must have been a cause for god if god exists, and a cause for the cause that caused god to exist. It just goes on forever and it is posited in the cosmological argument that there are both no causal loops, or infinite causes. The argument really sinks itself.
dookiecheez 1 year ago
@dookiecheez Basically, the cosmological argument is irrefutable and therefore refutes itself. But arguing against it does nothing, as the creationists will just say something along the lines of "But god is infinite" and then cover their ears and start shouting some incomprehensible bible bullshit to hide from the response.
silencesoloud12 1 year ago
@silencesoloud12
The cosmological argument is not irrefutable, it poses false assumptions that can be shown to be false. It's also logically inept, why are you calling this thing god? Where did you get intelligence, I see no logical requirement for this first cause to be intelligent. Why are you posing the most complex explanation to precede the universe when complexity tends to arise slowly over time? Why bother, if you showed god to exist your scripture would be of no use.
dookiecheez 1 year ago
@dookiecheez I corrected myself in the comment immediately following my original response to your commet.
silencesoloud12 1 year ago
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dookiecheez 1 year ago
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dookiecheez 1 year ago