Atheists use their brains to study and understand the world around them. Believers use their brains to study and understand a tale of a magical kingdom they wish they lived in... --_--"
When he talks about "looking at a trendline", he should have made a graph, fit a trendline and calculate its statistical significance. We can't tell it by looking at the raw data.
LOL! Many of the states that score high have prestigious universities which attract high IQ students thus skewing the data. (Not to say that religion doesn't tend to obstruct an individual's ability to learn but that has little to do with IQ since at least 80% of IQ is genetic.)
There's nothing illogical about having faith. What's illogical is blindly following a belief system, when there are many objections that challenge it.
Why don't you make something? You think we don't have enough effeminate jewish twerps pushing their opinions down the collective throat of the country? Is what you have to offer any different from what we can get from a ten thousand other sources?
First of all How does David define who is religious and who is not? There are people who will tell you that they believe in God and maybe identify themselves as being a Christian but do not practice it. Many so called Christians never pick up a bible or attend a local fellowship. There are also people who call themselves Muslim's but do not practice it wholeheartedly.
@MrGwaneDM I'd say most Christians know little of their bible. That may in itself prove their ignorance, because one a person starts picking apart religious doctrine and documents, you'll find some surprises. It's precisely knowledge of the bible that leads many people, like myself, to atheism. I think your point is valid to a degree, but probably the correlation between lack of bible knowledge and low IQ can be made.
Actually the study he was referring to had Episcopal/Anglican at the top, and Jews above Atheists and agnostics.
I wonder if Dave and his "well read" buddies would equally tout Helmuth Nyborg's other IQ related theories and studies, such as his claim that men are smarter than women and whites are smarter than blacks.
It's insane to try to rate group intelligence when one, IQ testing is flawed to start and two, the amount of variables would require huge samples to make the results meaningful.
@baalisgod666 Just have an intelligent question to ask. Why is the body of Jesus Christ not in the tomb where he was buried after he was crucified? It doesn't require any faith to see that. That fact is not mumbo jumbo. The fact that Jesus's bones have not been found should tell you something right?
They had a TV show here called "Test The Nation" where they tested lots of people's IQ and also collected data on religiosity, political views, professions and stuff, and they found the same thing here. The people with the highest IQ were the least religious, and vice versa.
I think ethnicity,since that's biological,has more relevance to intelligence.But the argument about IQ and talent will always be nature vs. nurture. So Southern Christian rednecks have low IQs, In the very religious Middle East, say Jewish Israel and Muslim Iran, whatever criticism you might have of them, they aren't famous for being stupid.Are religious Jews dumber than secular Jews?I doubt it.So I think this study was misguided,maybe hoping to "prove" a false premise.
This study isn't really true. I live in one of the most religious states but many of my religious friends got into the ivies. My atheist best friend didnt go to college. I highly doubt Vermont produces the most geniuses. All this data does is promote atheist snobbery, which is the opposite of what everyone would want of their image.
@guitariffz83 That is anecdotal. From every study I have seen, less education/IQ always = more religious... These studies examine many people, not just 2 of your friends, that would be why this study is 100% more compelling than your anecdotes.
No, it wasn't just "two of my friends", it was basically my whole school. The Valedictorian, Saludictorian, and basically 95% of the top 10% were religious in one way or other. I'm sure a lot of people in the Bible belt are religious AND intelligent, it's bound to be with that many people. And this study is very subjective, how can you be sure of how religious someone is? And IQ is such an outdated way to measure smarts. Neither atheists or believers deserve elitism.
@guitariffz83 You are only proving your misunderstanding of the word anecdotal... Studies tell you the average, so to see exceptions is predicted by the study itself... It has nothing to do with elitism, that is a trait that only YOU are projecting onto this issue... My question to you, do you really think the intelligence between theists and atheists would be equal? One of the two wouldn't score better? Lets not be kidding ourselves and acknowledge the facts...
First of all, I am an atheist. But that doesn't mean I disrespect other people beliefs. This study is inflammatory in a subtle way, but a lot of commenters, like you, seem to run with it and say that religious people tend to be stupider than atheists. Which is CLEARLY elitist. Most of the scientists and researchers in America are foreign, thanks to the H-1B visa. And many of them are religious, (Hindu, Muslim, etc). What did you contribute to society? Probably nothing.
@guitariffz83 I am not elitist saying third world countries have lower IQ's than developed countries, that's just fact. Same thing with this. Saying a group of people who frequent the places that used to kill you if you said the world was round have a lower IQ on avrg is not only fact, but obvious kid. This isn't elitism, it is being pragmatic. Now stop being offended on other peoples behalf because you're a jobless loser and leave me alone, I have university in the morning, cya..
What is your major, liberal arts? Since my mention of the H-1B visa clearly went over your head, let me clarify. In 2006, the NSF found that 36.2% of phd's in science and 63.6% of phd's in engineering went to foreign students. And half of them are from India. Apparently to you, those "third-world" Indians have lower IQ's. Your ignorance is astounding, and THAT is what offends me. Stop pretending you're knowledgeable and try doing some research next time.
@guitariffz83 Why would I care about the pitiful amount of students the US produces? The US produced 20 000 engineers last year, China produced a quarter mil. If you want to argue about foreign students, I'll trump you with foreign schools kid. Clearly your not getting the point, there are religious Doctors yes, but when sampled as a group religious people score lower. Apparently you have no fucking clue how averages work. Now stop putting words in my mouth and do your own research
The greatest evidence that religious belief is dependent on ignorance is to look at polls on religious affiliation before the age of the Internet, and then look at them every year that the Internet has been accessible to the common man. No greater evidence exists that once information is made available to people, religion declines. Religion flourishes when man cannot get access to information. The Internet is religion’s ultimate executioner.
It should be obvious why faith in God diminishes with a greater degree of education. It is the same reason why belief in Santa Claus disappears the older one becomes. The more one becomes confronted with reality, which is what happens when one achieves higher and higher levels of education, the less credulous one becomes, and religion derives its power from credulity.
These studies, which correlate the average IQ with religiosity, could have been called the "DUH Studies". It is pretty much common knowledge that one’s fidelity to religion declines with a greater degree of education. Facts are ultimately corrosive to religion, because religion is rooted in myth. Just as Stephen Colbert is fond of saying "facts have a well-known liberal bias", I would say facts also have a well-known secular bias.
just to note, atheism isn't a set of beliefs, nor an outlook. it is simply the rejection of theistic claims/beliefs. It is not a position position, meaning it doesn't say anything about what an atheist does believe.. for instance humanism or naturalism would be a set a beliefs that an atheist might subscribe to, but atheism in itself is not a belief, but the lack of belief in theistic claims. Humanism = possible atheistic worldview. atheism = not a worldview but a response to theistic claims.
The eyes of a wise man see things clearly. A person who is foolish lives in darkness. But I finally realized that death catches up with both of them.
The whole point of this study was to waste tax payers money for a meaningless out come, back to chasing the wind, when really all one has to do is sit and wait for it to return, all things are meaningless and death comes to all the Fool and Wise.
For those too stupid to comprehend, Atheism is not a belief nor a religion. Simply put, a lack of belief or being convinced. You see the burden of proof has not been met by those making the original claims and so while everyone else accepts without question, those who question are left unconvinced. Hens, Atheism. HURRAY }:)
@corathus59 So like, do you go to church? If so, how does the congregation (congreGAYtion?) approach the topic of ejaculating into another man's asshole during gay anal sex? just curious....that is, regular curious, not bi-curious.
So like, do you go to church? If so, how does the congregation (congreGAYtion?) approach the topic of ejaculating into another man's asshole during gay anal sex? just curious....that is, regular curious, not bi-curious.
I think there is bound to be a discrepancy between the overall IQ of atheists as opposed to theists simply because more often than not the path to atheism is through learning, intelectual objectivity and critical thought but people are born into religions. Scepticism is like an intelectual filter. There is nothing objective about apologetics.
Three of my grandparents, both of my parents, both of my siblings, and five nieces and nephews all test Mensa level IQ. Off the chart. They are also believers, and active members of churches. They are also liberal democrats. I am a gay liberal democrat living in California. I too am a believer. When you accuse all believers of being bigots you are simply projecting your own bigotry onto others, much like Rick Perry does. One might say you demonstrate a low mastery of logic and reason.
It is so pathetically easy to manipulate such statistics and studies as to make such reports almost meaningless. Take a more insightful approach. Add up the most intelligent scientists in history, and add up who believes in God. The results are stark and clear. Einstein, Newton---90% plus of the truly intelligent believe in God. It is only the mindless, leftist conformists who cannot think for themselves who sneer at people of faith.
@corathus59 Einstein was not religious at all, he's stated that he was a pantheist many times which is not an organized religion any more than deism or atheism. and of course newton and many others believed, alot of them lived in times where you had to believe in order to not get you know, executed by the church. Newton also believed in alchemy. why are people of the past so important? because religion doesn't have a stronghold on people today like it used to, which is what people like you want.
@corathus59 I generally sneer at faith because it is the belief in something without evidence!
Newton??? is education not a factor?
You know as well as I do, if you were to take all the doctors and professors of science of the top 100 universities you would find a percentage of atheists far greater than the average population. If you narrowed this down to the field of biology the number would probably increase further.
Your approach appears to be more dishonest than insightful.
@corathus59 "90% plus of the truly intelligent believe in God" Starting with a BA, 60% of college graduates are nonbelievers. A Doctorate increases to 90%. For the National Academy of Sciences a poll was taken and that figure is 98% non-believers. As for the 'truly intelligent,' I take it you mean historically. The times and usually the Catholic Church dictated these 'greats' publicly profess religious belief, that is if they valued their necks and/or unburned bodies.
@filthyfun no, you could believe in a god that created the universe and watches over us but doesn't judge us, doesn't affect what is happening on earth, isn't sending people to heaven or hell and didn't write the bible or any other holy book. this is called deism which is a belief in a literal god but not is any specific religion. there is no dogma or tradition or worship from deism which is why it's only a belief and not a religion.
@nitrorev386 Religion; a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. Deism is a cop-out its like saying I don't know that? so god must of done that! Deism is a Religon get a dictionary!
I suspect it's actually genetic. The states with a higher percentage of highly religious people probably have a larger number of people with genes for personalities that are more susceptible to religious beliefs, and have a lower IQ.
@Gogargoat No, it's cultural. It starts with the parents. It's about control. It's like the Santa Clause thing of being naughty or nice. The ultimate surveillance. An invisible father figure that sees all even when nobody else is there. The ultimate judge. Someone you have to answer to and has absolute power over you, often pictured as playing out parts of your life where you did something bad. Rulers historically used the myth to keep whole populations under control.
@DcEatsItsYoung babies aren't atheists because atheism is an opinion based on observation, thinking and ultimately a decision. babies can't do that shit yet. If we counted anybody who doesn't believe in a god an atheist, the IQ of these charts would be very different. babies aren't stupid, they just haven't learned anything yet. what about mentally handicapped people who don't even understand God, or vegetables for lack of a better word. atheism is the rejection of religion not just non-belief.
Theism is the belief in a personal god. Atheism is simply WITHOUT BELIEF in a personal god. Technically, babies are born without belief in a personal god, and without belief in any religion. In my opinion, Atheism can exist with or without knowledge of the concept of god....cuz it is simply without belief
And while there are very good reasons for atheists to reject any and all religions, the core of the rejection is actually of unjustitied belief, from which religion follows
@nitrorev386 Imagine if it were possible for an intelligent person to grow into adulthood with an average education and the same experiences as a average person with no exposure to religion, god etc. If this person was then told by a handful of people that there is an invisible being who created us etc etc would their response not be similar to that expected of an atheist? Could this person respond:"doesn't sound likely, you could be right, haven't seen evidence for a god" = Atheist
@Leehamism : That expertiment has been done on this planet, millions of times allready. Result is whole countries where religions are dying out. Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Swizerland, Japan. Countries where religion holds zero power. Coincidentally also the best, happiest, most peacefull countries on this planet.
@bary1234 Good point Leehamism. You leave out one vital fact though. Every single country going atheist is also promptly tipping into death spiral demographics. In 50 to 70 years those nations will cease to exist, and this whole argument will cease to exist, leaving only believers. I submit to you that a belief system that leads to immediate extinction is contrary to life, and demonstrates how invalid it is in the most fundamental test of all.
@corathus59 "Belief system" I've heard this term used many times to describe atheism but it makes it sound like there are number of elements to it. There aren't. It is a lack of belief in a god/s. It is not a religion or a belief that gods do not exist. Atheists may be more likely to share other specific beliefs and it pretty much rules out mainstream religions but there is no "system".
On your comment: Is it a vital fact? Is it even a fact?
@corathus59 "Every single country going atheist is also promptly tipping into death spiral demographics. In 50 to 70 years those nations will cease to exist, and this whole argument will cease to exist, leaving only believers."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
Thanks, I needed a good laugh.
Tell me this Einstein, do you honestly believe if we make contact with an advanced civilization from another world they will say they got where they are thanks to a shared belief in a mythology?
@bary1234 In America it's EASY to just say you are Christian to fit in.
Don't mention a specific denomination though or you will be told it's a cult,...unless you say Presbyterian because nobody knows what the hell that is....
@SpitfireOFatj : Yeah, I know what you mean. Religious people are so damn tribal. Well all humans are tribal but they create divides even dumber than normal.
FAIL. There is no stratification for race and level of education in any of this. Also, I'd like to know what their source is for the average IQ at the state level, because it smells like bullshit to me. The census doesn't give out IQ tests, and I seriously doubt anyone has done any state-by-state study with a sample size large enough that the one or two point differences could be significant. By the way, most smart people are agnostic and deist. Atheists just tend to THINK they are smart.
I find that a lot of religious people don't understand scientific concepts such as evolution and tend to just fill in the gaps with God did it. Most don't even want to know the facts. They are willingly and blissfully ignorant and will not accept anything out of the God box.
If the poor have nothing to rely on but faith, of course they're going to believe in a god to help them because they have no where to go and nothing to believe in. So they have to believe in something to help them. It's unfortunate that the world is like that but people, for the most part, suck especially our politicians. Most every president has had some sort of religious involvement while in presidency. The church and state should be separate.
We have some 1.5 billion Atheists on this planet by now.
Religious people still systematically indoctrinate defenceless children in to their sick cults. Brainwashing in to religion is criminal child abuse. It causes permanent braindamage, that shit has to stop. We need 18+ age restriction on religious indoctrination.
If superstitious bastards cant attack children anymore, religions will die in one generation. And this world would be so much brighter and happier place for it.
Also... I mean I could go on and on with the pitfalls of drawing wide conclusions from this... there's issues of blurred definitions of religion, people calling themselves 'spiritual' while considering 'religion' to be a bad word, etc. People may reject the dominant state religion and say they're irreligious yet be tourists of Buddhism or Transhumanism or something-or-other.
Religiosity is bound up with social issues too much to say there is a simple and direct correlation. Hypothetical example: in society X religion is the #1 consolation of the poor, malnourished and uneducated; whereas the rich see irreligiosity as a badge of sophistication. In this example it's impossible to use stats to tease out a causal relationship between religiosity & I.Q.
@FrogmortonHotchkiss If you had to bet your life on who was the atheist and who was religious between a person with an IQ of 130 or someone with an IQ of 90 (everything else being equal as far as you could tell with a gun at your head) I know who I'd choose!
If it was the same situation but one person was a high school science teacher and the other was a truck driver. Again, I know who I would choose.
Education and intelligence each have a part to play. Education more so.
@Leehamism This statement of your does nothing but demonstrate a failure to understand the statement it's replying to. Please read it again and say something worth my time and yours.
People believe a zillion different fallacies; people who proudly wear this badge of 'atheism' all too often miss all the others because they focus too narrowly on some especially wacky elements of some religions. It's a cheap form of self-righteousness. Go poke fun at a retard/steal candy from a baby.
@FrogmortonHotchkiss I've made a number of statements, in reply to a number of statements. I'm not sure which statement hit a nerve. Maybe my statement was not intended to purely address the statement you refer to. Maybe it was, just a statement.
Eg: I have never mentioned, different fallacies, proud atheists, focusing on wacky elements, self righteousness or poking fun/stealing candy. I did however find reading your statement worth my time and I'm sorry you wasted yours.
@Leehamism Whut!? I get an email notification when people respond to my comments. You replied to me. If you can't even be bothered continuing a discussion beyond firing off snark then you are showing quite a poor example of superior atheist rationality. You didn't 'hit a nerve'; you're just wrong, and rude to boot.
IQ tests are always unreliable, but the correlation between intelligence and atheism is fairly obvious. If you're curious and question things, you're going to become smarter for it, but it will also dispell your religious beliefs if you apply this scrutiny to every part of your life.
Yeah, David Pakman's "explanation" for this trend seems to make sense to me. I think the lack of resources and lack of science and logic based education leads people to religion (generally). That would seem to make the most sense in explaining the trend.
People with a heightend intellect are far more likely to be skeptical in any given circumstance, especially with faith based ideals. It's the positive outcome of practiced scholarship.
Impoverished and poorly educated people cling to religion. This should come as absolutely no surprise. In a nation with as horrendous an income inequality problem as the United States this fact should be even less surprising.
theism and atheism are not religions. the different set of beliefs under those two titles can be considered religions. so for example buddhism would be a religion under the title atheism and christianity would be a religion under the title theism. most atheists are not religious and do not subscribe to a certain set of beliefs and therefore go under the title atheist while most theists subscribe to a belief system which makes it confusing for some people to understand the proper words to use.
It doesn't really matter within the context of the study where you can clearly draw a comparison between believing in bronze age nonsense and, well, NOT believing in bronze age nonsense, so to speak.
@unabomberman i was just trying to explain that theism is not the same as religion likewise atheism is not the same as non-religion. in other words non-theist does not equal non-religious. many buddhists are atheists while there are theists that do not subscribe to any 'bronze age nonsense' as you put it.
Of course Agnostics would score less than Atheists. Agnostics, by definition, don't know! So how can they score higher than an Atheist when knowledge is needed to do well on a test?
@ZeerosFate Was that a genuine comment? An agnostic position is that we cannot know for a fact whether god exists or not. I am an agnostic and I believe that there is no conclusive evidence of god's existence. Are you claiming to know for a fact that god does not exist, and asserting that this makes you smarter than an agnostic?
@WigglyMalmsteam I think most atheists are agnostic. I'm a gnostic atheist myself. I believe that if gods existed, we would be able to find conclusive proof, even if that proof was indirect.
@BrotherAlpha I understand your reasoning, but can we really say with 100% certainty that something does not exist, regardless of how ridiculous the idea is? I don't think we can.
@WigglyMalmsteam - uhm, No. Agnostic simply means we don't know - not that we cannot know. It may seem a subtle distinction, but it's there, nonetheless.
@47f0 His definition of agnostic, one who regards the existence of god as fundamentally unknowable, is actually fairly common. Apparently, according to Merriam-Webster, even the Greek origin, agnostos, means both unknown and unknowable.
a few reasons why religious people are stupider then atheists and agnostics is because they are told that the bible is 100% correct there for the world is only 6000 years old and no matter what facts you show them they ignore it and i think thats the main problem
I know some very smart people that say they believe and even go to church. I wonder sometimes if they are just doing this to fit into the community for career purposes.
@burntonion05 - perhaps. I suspect there are a great many church-attending politicians who are secretly atheist, for example. On the other hand, there are scientists like Ken Miller or Francis Collins who seem to be sincere, and don't at all fit into their community of scientists when it comes to faith. Personally, I don't see how you can fit science, which has a platform of evidence, with faith, which has a platform of no evidence into the same brain, but apparently, some do.
@l0gically I'm an Atheist and I believe in many things. I just don't believe in a particular thing such as "god" and the theists don't believe in "no god".
@jimbobubbadj its atheist that states its impossible for there to be a god and thiests say there has to be a god you seem to be agsnostic and say there might be a god
@indignant99 I think you're confusing Atheists with Agnostics there bro. An Atheist believes that there is no god, an Agnostic believes that it is impossible to prove wether or not a god exists.
An Atheist does not believe that the existence of a god is possible.
@GigaBoost You're the one who's confused, "bro." Atheists DON'T BELIEVE in god - NOT believe there's no god. Big difference, "bro." Out of all atheists - who don't believe in god - a small faction (SMALL FACTION) go further to say "NO GOD." Get your fuckin' act together, "bro."
@NewUser21111 don't do that. Just because somebody believes in God doesn't make him stupid. They can have really intelligent things to say about so many subjects, yet you say that just because he believes in God that gives you the right to automatically dismiss whatever else he has an opinion on.
@shittyfagg Ya know,...it wasn't that long ago when people honestly believed the story of a princess chained to a rock as a sacrifice to a sea monster who was saved by a hero on a winged horse after he killed a thing with snakes for hair that could turn you to stone if you looked at it.
They would tell you he proof is right over your head. The gods honored the parties involved by putting stars in the sky.
Doubting that story made you a fool or a heretic.
@SpitfireOFatj The 'flat world' example has rhetorical uses but every now and then it is worthwhile to point out that it's historically total rubbish: plenty of people figured out the world's round long before Columbus. A glance at ancient Greek cosmological texts and diagrams shows this.
@FrogmortonHotchkiss "plenty of people figured out the world's round long before Columbus. A glance at ancient Greek cosmological texts and diagrams shows this."
Ah, but then came the Dark Ages,...brought on by Religion....
@SpitfireOFatj This video has invited a lot of brainless tomato-throwing. Things are a wee bit more complicated than Dark Ages = religion = ignorance.
I would like to see a chart of world atheism versus smugness - I bet there's a correlation.
I wouldn't go around boasting about my atheism any more than I would go around boasting that I don't believe in fairies; and I certainly wouldn't get my kicks by blaming all the world's trouble on those who do.
"Isaac Newton was the greatest scientist of all time."
Highly Subjective.
Also your one example is meant to somehow be meaningful?
Let me have a go at this: Stephen Hawking is Wealthy and Stephen Hawking is Disabled. Therefore disabled people have economic advantages over able people.
See the problem?
You are coming across as pretty uneducated and lacking deductive reasoning.
@TOTCD It is very hard to measure such things.Plus he had many failures, which are not as well known because he was a pioneer of the field of physics. However, when it comes to the field of chemistry, and other fields, he was a collossal failure, for example, trying to turn lead into gold, which we now know is impossible.
And so what if he was a'failure' in the field of chemistry? He was a very versatile scientist. You now know it is impossible. At the time they didn't know. Science is trying until you are right. And even when you think you're right 50 years later someone will prove you were wrong lol. Nevertheless Newton is considered by many great scholars the most influential and greatest scientist ever.
@SuperBenzid Okay no problem.I can continue doing this.
Being called uneducated while I'm in my 2nd year of university on the internet is actually very funny. You need to stop masturbating on your reflection in the mirror.
Apparently you love yourself so much you think you're entitled to always being right.
my reasoning isn't strange. If you can't understand it well then I think it says more about your intelligence than you think.
@indignant99 Well are you a scientist? If you aren't then it doesn't really matter if you agree with me or not lol. Just look up what all famous scientists of the past have said about Isaac Newton and what the scientists today say about him.
@TOTCD Yes, as a matter of fact, I am a Computer Scientist. And I studied PLENTY of Chemistry, Physics, Engineering, Math, and Logic while earning my degree. I'd put ALL of the early-20th-century famous physicists above Newton. And Stephen Hawking, today.
@indignant99 And those same influential scientists would probably put Newton above them. Look why don't you do the research. And see what most scientists feel about Newton okay?
@TOTCD lol but look at the time period he lived in. he was never exposed to the theory evolution or the big bang theory. he did not have access to the information we have today. :)
But I was just trying to point out that some smart people can also be religious.
And what I hate about people with no religion is they try to paint all religious people as dumb. Just let them do their thing as long as it doesn't hurt others.
Or doesn't come in the way of scientific research and medicine.
@TOTCD - "But I was just trying to point out that some smart people can also be religious."
.
So? Smart people can also be insane, even dangerous. There are plenty of smart people in prison. Sir Isaac was just flat batty on some issues. Pascal was also clearly bright - and used that intelligence (and his faith) to drive himself into the ground.
.
The fact remains - there is a clear correlation between a lack of religiosity and success - at the personal, or national level.
@shittyfagg To become president, one has to appeal to the majority. Unfortunately the majority believe in nonsense. Who knows how many presidents were actually atheists?
@shittyfagg - well, honestly, probably several. There are quotes by Lincoln, for example, that would have today's evangelists marching on the White House with pitchforks and torches. But is an upper-level civil management job actually as successful as say, a Mark Zuckerberg or Sir Richard Branson or Ricky Gervais?
@TOTCD I fail to see how pointing out that well known attribute of Issac Newton has anything to do with the average intellectual capability of an entire modern nation.
@TOTCD Newton believed in alchemy too. His religious beliefs were such mostly because everybody beieved them 500 years ago. His research was the beginning of getting out of the religious mindset, Copernicus, Mendel, and the other scientists that came out of the religious system only did so because religious organisations of that time were the only centres of learning.
@TOTCD Many great scientists, mathematicians, and philosophers (Pascal, Leibniz, Descartes) believed in God, but I believe it's a bit misleading to say they were religious, since many were not religious in the way that the average person is religious. Many of them were rational thinkers who approached religion very differently than those who jumped in with blind faith. There are rational paths to believing in God (however flawed), but your average bible thumper follows a more sheeplike path.
In as much as I am an unapologetic atheist & a left wing radical, I can't just hand over my credibility card to IQs. You can't quantify intellect. I'm a firm purporter of educational value. But I've no problem with people having religion. It's just the Jesus freaks who are the problem. Furthermore, this sociological study can't find a causal link; simply a correlary one. That implied link is a slippery slope fallacy in itself.
Atheists use their brains to study and understand the world around them. Believers use their brains to study and understand a tale of a magical kingdom they wish they lived in... --_--"
GrievanDark 1 week ago
When he talks about "looking at a trendline", he should have made a graph, fit a trendline and calculate its statistical significance. We can't tell it by looking at the raw data.
r0galik 2 weeks ago
LOL! Many of the states that score high have prestigious universities which attract high IQ students thus skewing the data. (Not to say that religion doesn't tend to obstruct an individual's ability to learn but that has little to do with IQ since at least 80% of IQ is genetic.)
mjh012363 2 weeks ago
There's nothing illogical about having faith. What's illogical is blindly following a belief system, when there are many objections that challenge it.
TruthSerumification 3 weeks ago
I a fabulous quote - "Atheism is a religion like NOT collecting stamps is a hobby"
joewhitemusic 1 month ago
Helmuth Nyborg and Richard Lynn conduct a studying showing secularism is positively correlated with IQ -- YouTube atheists love it.
Helmuth Nybord and Richard Lynn conduct a study on racial differences in IQ -- YouTube atheists scream pseudoscience.
sysvinit 1 month ago
@sysvinit They want their cake and eat it too. Nom nom nom.
DKshad0w 1 month ago
it's an easy path out, whats easier for the average poor person: getting an education or asking god to get them out of their situation?
RamStrikk 1 month ago
Why don't you make something? You think we don't have enough effeminate jewish twerps pushing their opinions down the collective throat of the country? Is what you have to offer any different from what we can get from a ten thousand other sources?
seans10 1 month ago
@seans10 U mad bro? Dumbass racist motherfucker Ha ha ha
SmogHouseTradingCo 1 month ago
@SmogHouseTradingCo Are you 15 years old and pretending to be black? Just be yourself. "Bro."
seans10 1 month ago
@seans10 Wow you're a fucking dumbass... U mad bro?
SmogHouseTradingCo 1 month ago
@SmogHouseTradingCo Talk like an adult.
seans10 1 month ago
@seans10 Why? You start off by saying some mindless retarded comment, so I'm going to return the favour, see how this works? Y u mad bro?
SmogHouseTradingCo 1 month ago
First of all How does David define who is religious and who is not? There are people who will tell you that they believe in God and maybe identify themselves as being a Christian but do not practice it. Many so called Christians never pick up a bible or attend a local fellowship. There are also people who call themselves Muslim's but do not practice it wholeheartedly.
MrGwaneDM 1 month ago
@MrGwaneDM I'd say most Christians know little of their bible. That may in itself prove their ignorance, because one a person starts picking apart religious doctrine and documents, you'll find some surprises. It's precisely knowledge of the bible that leads many people, like myself, to atheism. I think your point is valid to a degree, but probably the correlation between lack of bible knowledge and low IQ can be made.
bartonim 1 month ago
Is religiosity a real word? It sounds like a Bush-ism.
historicalogicalness 1 month ago
This show is much better than TYT
neoarcadezr 1 month ago 6
@neoarcadezr Roughly the same.
NekoNickKun 1 month ago
@NekoNickKun i disagree its muuuch better
neoarcadezr 1 month ago
Actually the study he was referring to had Episcopal/Anglican at the top, and Jews above Atheists and agnostics.
I wonder if Dave and his "well read" buddies would equally tout Helmuth Nyborg's other IQ related theories and studies, such as his claim that men are smarter than women and whites are smarter than blacks.
It's insane to try to rate group intelligence when one, IQ testing is flawed to start and two, the amount of variables would require huge samples to make the results meaningful.
Theobrothers 2 months ago
IQ vs Real Science, The History Doesn't Look Good.
LoL @ David pretending he understands Maths...
Stick to quoting stuff you googled, at least then there might be a possibility that what you are stating is right.
Theobrothers 2 months ago
Basically- Retards believe in magic and resurrection, while intelligent people don't believe in mumbo jumbo.
baalisgod666 2 months ago
Comment removed
MrGwaneDM 1 month ago
@baalisgod666 Just have an intelligent question to ask. Why is the body of Jesus Christ not in the tomb where he was buried after he was crucified? It doesn't require any faith to see that. That fact is not mumbo jumbo. The fact that Jesus's bones have not been found should tell you something right?
MrGwaneDM 1 month ago
They had a TV show here called "Test The Nation" where they tested lots of people's IQ and also collected data on religiosity, political views, professions and stuff, and they found the same thing here. The people with the highest IQ were the least religious, and vice versa.
winterstellar 2 months ago
I think ethnicity,since that's biological,has more relevance to intelligence.But the argument about IQ and talent will always be nature vs. nurture. So Southern Christian rednecks have low IQs, In the very religious Middle East, say Jewish Israel and Muslim Iran, whatever criticism you might have of them, they aren't famous for being stupid.Are religious Jews dumber than secular Jews?I doubt it.So I think this study was misguided,maybe hoping to "prove" a false premise.
RykComerford 2 months ago
This study isn't really true. I live in one of the most religious states but many of my religious friends got into the ivies. My atheist best friend didnt go to college. I highly doubt Vermont produces the most geniuses. All this data does is promote atheist snobbery, which is the opposite of what everyone would want of their image.
guitariffz83 2 months ago
@guitariffz83 That is anecdotal. From every study I have seen, less education/IQ always = more religious... These studies examine many people, not just 2 of your friends, that would be why this study is 100% more compelling than your anecdotes.
SmogHouseTradingCo 2 months ago
@SmogHouseTradingCo
No, it wasn't just "two of my friends", it was basically my whole school. The Valedictorian, Saludictorian, and basically 95% of the top 10% were religious in one way or other. I'm sure a lot of people in the Bible belt are religious AND intelligent, it's bound to be with that many people. And this study is very subjective, how can you be sure of how religious someone is? And IQ is such an outdated way to measure smarts. Neither atheists or believers deserve elitism.
guitariffz83 2 months ago
@guitariffz83 You are only proving your misunderstanding of the word anecdotal... Studies tell you the average, so to see exceptions is predicted by the study itself... It has nothing to do with elitism, that is a trait that only YOU are projecting onto this issue... My question to you, do you really think the intelligence between theists and atheists would be equal? One of the two wouldn't score better? Lets not be kidding ourselves and acknowledge the facts...
SmogHouseTradingCo 1 month ago
@SmogHouseTradingCo
First of all, I am an atheist. But that doesn't mean I disrespect other people beliefs. This study is inflammatory in a subtle way, but a lot of commenters, like you, seem to run with it and say that religious people tend to be stupider than atheists. Which is CLEARLY elitist. Most of the scientists and researchers in America are foreign, thanks to the H-1B visa. And many of them are religious, (Hindu, Muslim, etc). What did you contribute to society? Probably nothing.
guitariffz83 1 month ago
@guitariffz83 I am not elitist saying third world countries have lower IQ's than developed countries, that's just fact. Same thing with this. Saying a group of people who frequent the places that used to kill you if you said the world was round have a lower IQ on avrg is not only fact, but obvious kid. This isn't elitism, it is being pragmatic. Now stop being offended on other peoples behalf because you're a jobless loser and leave me alone, I have university in the morning, cya..
SmogHouseTradingCo 1 month ago
@SmogHouseTradingCo
What is your major, liberal arts? Since my mention of the H-1B visa clearly went over your head, let me clarify. In 2006, the NSF found that 36.2% of phd's in science and 63.6% of phd's in engineering went to foreign students. And half of them are from India. Apparently to you, those "third-world" Indians have lower IQ's. Your ignorance is astounding, and THAT is what offends me. Stop pretending you're knowledgeable and try doing some research next time.
guitariffz83 1 month ago
@guitariffz83 Why would I care about the pitiful amount of students the US produces? The US produced 20 000 engineers last year, China produced a quarter mil. If you want to argue about foreign students, I'll trump you with foreign schools kid. Clearly your not getting the point, there are religious Doctors yes, but when sampled as a group religious people score lower. Apparently you have no fucking clue how averages work. Now stop putting words in my mouth and do your own research
SmogHouseTradingCo 1 month ago
You can't base the quality of this study on your own life experiences.
Theres dumb athiests out here,and intelligent religious people out there.
Im not saying that its right,or wrong,im just saying that its based on a lot more people then just the few you know.
prime618 2 months ago
Nose dive!!!
mg03nma 2 months ago
The greatest evidence that religious belief is dependent on ignorance is to look at polls on religious affiliation before the age of the Internet, and then look at them every year that the Internet has been accessible to the common man. No greater evidence exists that once information is made available to people, religion declines. Religion flourishes when man cannot get access to information. The Internet is religion’s ultimate executioner.
alphacause 2 months ago in playlist More videos from MidweekPolitics
It should be obvious why faith in God diminishes with a greater degree of education. It is the same reason why belief in Santa Claus disappears the older one becomes. The more one becomes confronted with reality, which is what happens when one achieves higher and higher levels of education, the less credulous one becomes, and religion derives its power from credulity.
alphacause 2 months ago in playlist More videos from MidweekPolitics
These studies, which correlate the average IQ with religiosity, could have been called the "DUH Studies". It is pretty much common knowledge that one’s fidelity to religion declines with a greater degree of education. Facts are ultimately corrosive to religion, because religion is rooted in myth. Just as Stephen Colbert is fond of saying "facts have a well-known liberal bias", I would say facts also have a well-known secular bias.
alphacause 2 months ago in playlist More videos from MidweekPolitics
just to note, atheism isn't a set of beliefs, nor an outlook. it is simply the rejection of theistic claims/beliefs. It is not a position position, meaning it doesn't say anything about what an atheist does believe.. for instance humanism or naturalism would be a set a beliefs that an atheist might subscribe to, but atheism in itself is not a belief, but the lack of belief in theistic claims. Humanism = possible atheistic worldview. atheism = not a worldview but a response to theistic claims.
sluggdiddyyddidgguls 2 months ago 9
@sluggdiddyyddidgguls i meant. "it is not a positive position" not position position.. god damnit.
sluggdiddyyddidgguls 2 months ago
The eyes of a wise man see things clearly. A person who is foolish lives in darkness. But I finally realized that death catches up with both of them.
The whole point of this study was to waste tax payers money for a meaningless out come, back to chasing the wind, when really all one has to do is sit and wait for it to return, all things are meaningless and death comes to all the Fool and Wise.
Budvb 2 months ago
do you think you could possibly post a link to this study on facebook or twitter?
8ellybelly8 2 months ago
Issue: IQ is a better measure of years of education than of intelligence, and those two items are not the same thing.
Steamtostay 2 months ago
For those too stupid to comprehend, Atheism is not a belief nor a religion. Simply put, a lack of belief or being convinced. You see the burden of proof has not been met by those making the original claims and so while everyone else accepts without question, those who question are left unconvinced. Hens, Atheism. HURRAY }:)
1980albatros 2 months ago in playlist 3-30-11
i'm sure its a scewed study
thebachu786 2 months ago
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@corathus59 So like, do you go to church? If so, how does the congregation (congreGAYtion?) approach the topic of ejaculating into another man's asshole during gay anal sex? just curious....that is, regular curious, not bi-curious.
YouFailEpic 2 months ago
So like, do you go to church? If so, how does the congregation (congreGAYtion?) approach the topic of ejaculating into another man's asshole during gay anal sex? just curious....that is, regular curious, not bi-curious.
YouFailEpic 2 months ago
I think there is bound to be a discrepancy between the overall IQ of atheists as opposed to theists simply because more often than not the path to atheism is through learning, intelectual objectivity and critical thought but people are born into religions. Scepticism is like an intelectual filter. There is nothing objective about apologetics.
strangetranceoffaith 2 months ago
Three of my grandparents, both of my parents, both of my siblings, and five nieces and nephews all test Mensa level IQ. Off the chart. They are also believers, and active members of churches. They are also liberal democrats. I am a gay liberal democrat living in California. I too am a believer. When you accuse all believers of being bigots you are simply projecting your own bigotry onto others, much like Rick Perry does. One might say you demonstrate a low mastery of logic and reason.
corathus59 2 months ago
@corathus59 I know someone who is real dumb and they are a Christian so this video must be right.
Leehamism 2 months ago
@corathus59 "When you accuse all believers of being bigots you are simply projecting your own bigotry onto others"
If it's a bigotry, it's a bigotry against bigots. See? That's what you get when you go up against an actual Mensa type....
SpitfireOFatj 2 months ago
Comment removed
eswyatt 2 months ago
It is nice to see an actual discussion of a study instead of knee jerk reactions or headlines. Well done.
pensivesim 2 months ago
It is so pathetically easy to manipulate such statistics and studies as to make such reports almost meaningless. Take a more insightful approach. Add up the most intelligent scientists in history, and add up who believes in God. The results are stark and clear. Einstein, Newton---90% plus of the truly intelligent believe in God. It is only the mindless, leftist conformists who cannot think for themselves who sneer at people of faith.
corathus59 2 months ago
@corathus59 Einstein was not religious at all, he's stated that he was a pantheist many times which is not an organized religion any more than deism or atheism. and of course newton and many others believed, alot of them lived in times where you had to believe in order to not get you know, executed by the church. Newton also believed in alchemy. why are people of the past so important? because religion doesn't have a stronghold on people today like it used to, which is what people like you want.
nitrorev386 2 months ago 8
@nitrorev386 does religion have to be organized to be religion? I don't think so. But I could be stretching it.
baalisgod666 2 months ago
@corathus59 I generally sneer at faith because it is the belief in something without evidence!
Newton??? is education not a factor?
You know as well as I do, if you were to take all the doctors and professors of science of the top 100 universities you would find a percentage of atheists far greater than the average population. If you narrowed this down to the field of biology the number would probably increase further.
Your approach appears to be more dishonest than insightful.
Leehamism 2 months ago
@corathus59 "90% plus of the truly intelligent believe in God" Starting with a BA, 60% of college graduates are nonbelievers. A Doctorate increases to 90%. For the National Academy of Sciences a poll was taken and that figure is 98% non-believers. As for the 'truly intelligent,' I take it you mean historically. The times and usually the Catholic Church dictated these 'greats' publicly profess religious belief, that is if they valued their necks and/or unburned bodies.
greiner3 2 months ago
@corathus59 "90% plus of the truly intelligent believe in God/"
......as if you hang with them......
SpitfireOFatj 2 months ago
Religion is just a word...? My idea of religion is completly different than anyone elses ideas of religon? Is it just believing in a sky god?
filthyfun 2 months ago
@filthyfun no, you could believe in a god that created the universe and watches over us but doesn't judge us, doesn't affect what is happening on earth, isn't sending people to heaven or hell and didn't write the bible or any other holy book. this is called deism which is a belief in a literal god but not is any specific religion. there is no dogma or tradition or worship from deism which is why it's only a belief and not a religion.
nitrorev386 2 months ago
@nitrorev386 Religion; a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. Deism is a cop-out its like saying I don't know that? so god must of done that! Deism is a Religon get a dictionary!
filthyfun 2 months ago
I suspect it's actually genetic. The states with a higher percentage of highly religious people probably have a larger number of people with genes for personalities that are more susceptible to religious beliefs, and have a lower IQ.
Gogargoat 2 months ago in playlist More videos from MidweekPolitics
@Gogargoat No, it's cultural. It starts with the parents. It's about control. It's like the Santa Clause thing of being naughty or nice. The ultimate surveillance. An invisible father figure that sees all even when nobody else is there. The ultimate judge. Someone you have to answer to and has absolute power over you, often pictured as playing out parts of your life where you did something bad. Rulers historically used the myth to keep whole populations under control.
SpitfireOFatj 2 months ago
Atheism is not an outlook. Or a position. Or a stand. Or a worldview.
Atheism is just the default position, the non-hypothesis.
Cool to see that research shows religious people to be dumber. I knew it to be so, but evidence is always good to have.
bary1234 2 months ago
@bary1234
very true...we are all born without belief...we are all born atheists...
DcEatsItsYoung 2 months ago
@DcEatsItsYoung babies aren't atheists because atheism is an opinion based on observation, thinking and ultimately a decision. babies can't do that shit yet. If we counted anybody who doesn't believe in a god an atheist, the IQ of these charts would be very different. babies aren't stupid, they just haven't learned anything yet. what about mentally handicapped people who don't even understand God, or vegetables for lack of a better word. atheism is the rejection of religion not just non-belief.
nitrorev386 2 months ago
@nitrorev3
Theism is the belief in a personal god. Atheism is simply WITHOUT BELIEF in a personal god. Technically, babies are born without belief in a personal god, and without belief in any religion. In my opinion, Atheism can exist with or without knowledge of the concept of god....cuz it is simply without belief
And while there are very good reasons for atheists to reject any and all religions, the core of the rejection is actually of unjustitied belief, from which religion follows
DcEatsItsYoung 2 months ago
@nitrorev386 Imagine if it were possible for an intelligent person to grow into adulthood with an average education and the same experiences as a average person with no exposure to religion, god etc. If this person was then told by a handful of people that there is an invisible being who created us etc etc would their response not be similar to that expected of an atheist? Could this person respond:"doesn't sound likely, you could be right, haven't seen evidence for a god" = Atheist
Leehamism 2 months ago
@Leehamism : That expertiment has been done on this planet, millions of times allready. Result is whole countries where religions are dying out. Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Swizerland, Japan. Countries where religion holds zero power. Coincidentally also the best, happiest, most peacefull countries on this planet.
bary1234 2 months ago
@bary1234 Good point Leehamism. You leave out one vital fact though. Every single country going atheist is also promptly tipping into death spiral demographics. In 50 to 70 years those nations will cease to exist, and this whole argument will cease to exist, leaving only believers. I submit to you that a belief system that leads to immediate extinction is contrary to life, and demonstrates how invalid it is in the most fundamental test of all.
corathus59 2 months ago
@corathus59: How deep in your own ass did you have to dig to come up with that "50-70 years?" Smart, free woman tend not to make dozens of babies.
You saying its important to be supersitious and enslave women? Is that your justification for zombie-jebus and other cults?
bary1234 2 months ago
@corathus59 "Belief system" I've heard this term used many times to describe atheism but it makes it sound like there are number of elements to it. There aren't. It is a lack of belief in a god/s. It is not a religion or a belief that gods do not exist. Atheists may be more likely to share other specific beliefs and it pretty much rules out mainstream religions but there is no "system".
On your comment: Is it a vital fact? Is it even a fact?
Your solution: Choose to not be atheist?
Leehamism 2 months ago
@corathus59 "Every single country going atheist is also promptly tipping into death spiral demographics. In 50 to 70 years those nations will cease to exist, and this whole argument will cease to exist, leaving only believers."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
Thanks, I needed a good laugh.
Tell me this Einstein, do you honestly believe if we make contact with an advanced civilization from another world they will say they got where they are thanks to a shared belief in a mythology?
SpitfireOFatj 2 months ago
@bary1234 I agree, but I don't think we need evidence, we could could always just take it on faith...hahaha
Leehamism 2 months ago
@bary1234 In America it's EASY to just say you are Christian to fit in.
Don't mention a specific denomination though or you will be told it's a cult,...unless you say Presbyterian because nobody knows what the hell that is....
SpitfireOFatj 2 months ago
@SpitfireOFatj : Yeah, I know what you mean. Religious people are so damn tribal. Well all humans are tribal but they create divides even dumber than normal.
bary1234 2 months ago
FAIL. There is no stratification for race and level of education in any of this. Also, I'd like to know what their source is for the average IQ at the state level, because it smells like bullshit to me. The census doesn't give out IQ tests, and I seriously doubt anyone has done any state-by-state study with a sample size large enough that the one or two point differences could be significant. By the way, most smart people are agnostic and deist. Atheists just tend to THINK they are smart.
BillyBawb 2 months ago
@BillyBawb We have superstitious people, and non-superstitious people. Do you actually need to think which are the smarter people?
bary1234 2 months ago
great one of the biggest religions in the world referred to as some Asian religion.
SuperFreeEducation 2 months ago
No surprises here
justjulie37 2 months ago
I find that a lot of religious people don't understand scientific concepts such as evolution and tend to just fill in the gaps with God did it. Most don't even want to know the facts. They are willingly and blissfully ignorant and will not accept anything out of the God box.
Gaytheist13 2 months ago
If the poor have nothing to rely on but faith, of course they're going to believe in a god to help them because they have no where to go and nothing to believe in. So they have to believe in something to help them. It's unfortunate that the world is like that but people, for the most part, suck especially our politicians. Most every president has had some sort of religious involvement while in presidency. The church and state should be separate.
garjarnaruto6543211 2 months ago
We have some 1.5 billion Atheists on this planet by now.
Religious people still systematically indoctrinate defenceless children in to their sick cults. Brainwashing in to religion is criminal child abuse. It causes permanent braindamage, that shit has to stop. We need 18+ age restriction on religious indoctrination.
If superstitious bastards cant attack children anymore, religions will die in one generation. And this world would be so much brighter and happier place for it.
bary1234 2 months ago
I'm sure the 1% agrees wholeheartedly with what you have to say Mr. Pakman
moviedude22 2 months ago
Also... I mean I could go on and on with the pitfalls of drawing wide conclusions from this... there's issues of blurred definitions of religion, people calling themselves 'spiritual' while considering 'religion' to be a bad word, etc. People may reject the dominant state religion and say they're irreligious yet be tourists of Buddhism or Transhumanism or something-or-other.
FrogmortonHotchkiss 2 months ago
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@FrogmortonHotchkiss ".. there's issues of blurred definitions of religion"
Not the least of which is a member of the faith who is not going to burn in hell but is still called a Friar
SpitfireOFatj 2 months ago
Religiosity is bound up with social issues too much to say there is a simple and direct correlation. Hypothetical example: in society X religion is the #1 consolation of the poor, malnourished and uneducated; whereas the rich see irreligiosity as a badge of sophistication. In this example it's impossible to use stats to tease out a causal relationship between religiosity & I.Q.
This is not an argument for or against religion.
FrogmortonHotchkiss 2 months ago
@FrogmortonHotchkiss If you had to bet your life on who was the atheist and who was religious between a person with an IQ of 130 or someone with an IQ of 90 (everything else being equal as far as you could tell with a gun at your head) I know who I'd choose!
If it was the same situation but one person was a high school science teacher and the other was a truck driver. Again, I know who I would choose.
Education and intelligence each have a part to play. Education more so.
Leehamism 2 months ago
@Leehamism This statement of your does nothing but demonstrate a failure to understand the statement it's replying to. Please read it again and say something worth my time and yours.
People believe a zillion different fallacies; people who proudly wear this badge of 'atheism' all too often miss all the others because they focus too narrowly on some especially wacky elements of some religions. It's a cheap form of self-righteousness. Go poke fun at a retard/steal candy from a baby.
FrogmortonHotchkiss 2 months ago
@FrogmortonHotchkiss I've made a number of statements, in reply to a number of statements. I'm not sure which statement hit a nerve. Maybe my statement was not intended to purely address the statement you refer to. Maybe it was, just a statement.
Eg: I have never mentioned, different fallacies, proud atheists, focusing on wacky elements, self righteousness or poking fun/stealing candy. I did however find reading your statement worth my time and I'm sorry you wasted yours.
Leehamism 2 months ago
@Leehamism Whut!? I get an email notification when people respond to my comments. You replied to me. If you can't even be bothered continuing a discussion beyond firing off snark then you are showing quite a poor example of superior atheist rationality. You didn't 'hit a nerve'; you're just wrong, and rude to boot.
FrogmortonHotchkiss 2 months ago
IQ tests are always unreliable, but the correlation between intelligence and atheism is fairly obvious. If you're curious and question things, you're going to become smarter for it, but it will also dispell your religious beliefs if you apply this scrutiny to every part of your life.
GigaBoost 2 months ago
Yeah, David Pakman's "explanation" for this trend seems to make sense to me. I think the lack of resources and lack of science and logic based education leads people to religion (generally). That would seem to make the most sense in explaining the trend.
91nickt 2 months ago
People with a heightend intellect are far more likely to be skeptical in any given circumstance, especially with faith based ideals. It's the positive outcome of practiced scholarship.
Ither1 2 months ago
Impoverished and poorly educated people cling to religion. This should come as absolutely no surprise. In a nation with as horrendous an income inequality problem as the United States this fact should be even less surprising.
girugamesh9001 2 months ago
What do you mean the numbers don't look good? haha I guess it depends on the point of view.
AtheistKharm 2 months ago
theism and atheism are not religions. the different set of beliefs under those two titles can be considered religions. so for example buddhism would be a religion under the title atheism and christianity would be a religion under the title theism. most atheists are not religious and do not subscribe to a certain set of beliefs and therefore go under the title atheist while most theists subscribe to a belief system which makes it confusing for some people to understand the proper words to use.
slytherinspy1960 2 months ago
@slytherinspy1960
It doesn't really matter within the context of the study where you can clearly draw a comparison between believing in bronze age nonsense and, well, NOT believing in bronze age nonsense, so to speak.
unabomberman 2 months ago
@unabomberman i was just trying to explain that theism is not the same as religion likewise atheism is not the same as non-religion. in other words non-theist does not equal non-religious. many buddhists are atheists while there are theists that do not subscribe to any 'bronze age nonsense' as you put it.
slytherinspy1960 2 months ago
Of course Agnostics would score less than Atheists. Agnostics, by definition, don't know! So how can they score higher than an Atheist when knowledge is needed to do well on a test?
ZeerosFate 2 months ago
@ZeerosFate Was that a genuine comment? An agnostic position is that we cannot know for a fact whether god exists or not. I am an agnostic and I believe that there is no conclusive evidence of god's existence. Are you claiming to know for a fact that god does not exist, and asserting that this makes you smarter than an agnostic?
WigglyMalmsteam 2 months ago
@WigglyMalmsteam I think most atheists are agnostic. I'm a gnostic atheist myself. I believe that if gods existed, we would be able to find conclusive proof, even if that proof was indirect.
BrotherAlpha 2 months ago 2
@BrotherAlpha I understand your reasoning, but can we really say with 100% certainty that something does not exist, regardless of how ridiculous the idea is? I don't think we can.
WigglyMalmsteam 2 months ago
@WigglyMalmsteam We can't be 100% certain of anything, including the fact that we exist, so it shouldn't be the goal.
BrotherAlpha 2 months ago
@WigglyMalmsteam - uhm, No. Agnostic simply means we don't know - not that we cannot know. It may seem a subtle distinction, but it's there, nonetheless.
47f0 2 months ago
@47f0 His definition of agnostic, one who regards the existence of god as fundamentally unknowable, is actually fairly common. Apparently, according to Merriam-Webster, even the Greek origin, agnostos, means both unknown and unknowable.
Gnomefro 2 months ago
@WigglyMalmsteam I haven't made any claims to personal belief, but if you want me to, you would first have to tell me your definition for God.
ZeerosFate 2 months ago
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a few reasons why religious people are stupider then atheists and agnostics is because they are told that the bible is 100% correct there for the world is only 6000 years old and no matter what facts you show them they ignore it and i think thats the main problem
kazooga1234 2 months ago
I know some very smart people that say they believe and even go to church. I wonder sometimes if they are just doing this to fit into the community for career purposes.
burntonion05 2 months ago
@burntonion05 - perhaps. I suspect there are a great many church-attending politicians who are secretly atheist, for example. On the other hand, there are scientists like Ken Miller or Francis Collins who seem to be sincere, and don't at all fit into their community of scientists when it comes to faith. Personally, I don't see how you can fit science, which has a platform of evidence, with faith, which has a platform of no evidence into the same brain, but apparently, some do.
47f0 2 months ago
There is also a similar correlation in these same states with obesity...stupid, fat xtians.
DonSSanders 2 months ago 2
I would say that religion and atheism are both worldviews. One focuses on a set of beliefs, the other advocates the absence thereof.
l0gically 2 months ago
@l0gically I'm an Atheist and I believe in many things. I just don't believe in a particular thing such as "god" and the theists don't believe in "no god".
jimbobubbadj 2 months ago
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@jimbobubbadj its atheist that states its impossible for there to be a god and thiests say there has to be a god you seem to be agsnostic and say there might be a god
kazooga1234 2 months ago
@kazooga1234 BONK. Hammer on you. Atheists DO NOT say there's no god. We say we DON'T BELIEVE in any god. You get a second BONK.
indignant99 2 months ago
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@indignant99 yes they do and i have proof its called the dictionary and here is the defintion • a•the•ism [ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.
the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2.
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
kazooga1234 2 months ago
@indignant99 I think you're confusing Atheists with Agnostics there bro. An Atheist believes that there is no god, an Agnostic believes that it is impossible to prove wether or not a god exists.
An Atheist does not believe that the existence of a god is possible.
GigaBoost 2 months ago
@GigaBoost You're the one who's confused, "bro." Atheists DON'T BELIEVE in god - NOT believe there's no god. Big difference, "bro." Out of all atheists - who don't believe in god - a small faction (SMALL FACTION) go further to say "NO GOD." Get your fuckin' act together, "bro."
indignant99 2 months ago
Makes sense, religions reward stupidity.
MercenaryBlackWaterz 2 months ago
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@MercenaryBlackWaterz - "Makes sense, religions reward stupidity."
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You have that slightly backwards - stupidity rewards religion.
47f0 2 months ago
Religious people believe in an invisible man in the sky with no proof whatsoever of his existence. Yeah that's pretty stupid and NOT intelligent.
NewUser21111 2 months ago 29
@NewUser21111 don't do that. Just because somebody believes in God doesn't make him stupid. They can have really intelligent things to say about so many subjects, yet you say that just because he believes in God that gives you the right to automatically dismiss whatever else he has an opinion on.
shittyfagg 2 months ago
@shittyfagg Ya know,...it wasn't that long ago when people honestly believed the story of a princess chained to a rock as a sacrifice to a sea monster who was saved by a hero on a winged horse after he killed a thing with snakes for hair that could turn you to stone if you looked at it.
They would tell you he proof is right over your head. The gods honored the parties involved by putting stars in the sky.
Doubting that story made you a fool or a heretic.
Also, the world was flat.
SpitfireOFatj 2 months ago
@SpitfireOFatj The 'flat world' example has rhetorical uses but every now and then it is worthwhile to point out that it's historically total rubbish: plenty of people figured out the world's round long before Columbus. A glance at ancient Greek cosmological texts and diagrams shows this.
FrogmortonHotchkiss 2 months ago
@FrogmortonHotchkiss "plenty of people figured out the world's round long before Columbus. A glance at ancient Greek cosmological texts and diagrams shows this."
Ah, but then came the Dark Ages,...brought on by Religion....
SpitfireOFatj 2 months ago
@SpitfireOFatj This video has invited a lot of brainless tomato-throwing. Things are a wee bit more complicated than Dark Ages = religion = ignorance.
I would like to see a chart of world atheism versus smugness - I bet there's a correlation.
I wouldn't go around boasting about my atheism any more than I would go around boasting that I don't believe in fairies; and I certainly wouldn't get my kicks by blaming all the world's trouble on those who do.
FrogmortonHotchkiss 2 months ago
@FrogmortonHotchkiss "I would like to see a chart of world atheism versus smugness - I bet there's a correlation."
If you're testing for smugness, just look at the Bible Belt.
@FrogmortonHotchkiss: "I wouldn't go around boasting about my atheism any more than I would go around boasting that I don't believe in fairies;"
A lot of people who call themselves "Atheists" are doing it for shock value.
I can tell. I'm an Atheist. It's a point of neither pride nor shame. A fact.
SpitfireOFatj 2 months ago
Who needs studies to prove this information. It's all in the Bobble, people, the greatest science book of all time!!!
PompousPreacher 2 months ago
Isaac Newton was the greatest scientist of all time.
Yet he was very religious.
From an agnostic...
TOTCD 2 months ago
@TOTCD
"Isaac Newton was the greatest scientist of all time."
Highly Subjective.
Also your one example is meant to somehow be meaningful?
Let me have a go at this: Stephen Hawking is Wealthy and Stephen Hawking is Disabled. Therefore disabled people have economic advantages over able people.
See the problem?
You are coming across as pretty uneducated and lacking deductive reasoning.
SuperBenzid 2 months ago
@SuperBenzid Isaac Newton IS the greatest scientist to have ever lived.
Almost everyone agrees with that.
He wrote more religious texts than he did on math, physics etc.
TOTCD 2 months ago
@TOTCD It is very hard to measure such things.Plus he had many failures, which are not as well known because he was a pioneer of the field of physics. However, when it comes to the field of chemistry, and other fields, he was a collossal failure, for example, trying to turn lead into gold, which we now know is impossible.
dangerouslytalented 2 months ago
@dangerouslytalented How long did it take before people corrected his mistakes?
And so what if he was a'failure' in the field of chemistry? He was a very versatile scientist. You now know it is impossible. At the time they didn't know. Science is trying until you are right. And even when you think you're right 50 years later someone will prove you were wrong lol. Nevertheless Newton is considered by many great scholars the most influential and greatest scientist ever.
TOTCD 2 months ago
@TOTCD
The generalizations run strong with this one, I see a steady diet of fox news hyperbole has left you unable to communicate without them.
But no, you just go ahead and keep mentally masturbating over your fallacial reasoning, good luck with that.
SuperBenzid 2 months ago
@SuperBenzid Fox news?! I don't even get Fox news at home.
Lol you're a joke. Please go F yourself and don't reply anymore.
TOTCD 2 months ago
@TOTCD Really? you could have fooled me since you think and speak like a fox news contributor.
Oh and no thanks, I will pretty much reply as much or as little as I want.
SuperBenzid 2 months ago
@SuperBenzid Okay no problem.I can continue doing this.
Being called uneducated while I'm in my 2nd year of university on the internet is actually very funny. You need to stop masturbating on your reflection in the mirror.
Apparently you love yourself so much you think you're entitled to always being right.
my reasoning isn't strange. If you can't understand it well then I think it says more about your intelligence than you think.
TOTCD 2 months ago
@TOTCD I don't agree with that. Your unsupported claim "almost everyone agrees" is UNSUPPORTED. How did you decide that "almost everyone agrees?"
indignant99 2 months ago
@indignant99 Well are you a scientist? If you aren't then it doesn't really matter if you agree with me or not lol. Just look up what all famous scientists of the past have said about Isaac Newton and what the scientists today say about him.
I'm not the one making this up.
I have numerous links but I can't post them here.
TOTCD 2 months ago
@TOTCD Yes, as a matter of fact, I am a Computer Scientist. And I studied PLENTY of Chemistry, Physics, Engineering, Math, and Logic while earning my degree. I'd put ALL of the early-20th-century famous physicists above Newton. And Stephen Hawking, today.
indignant99 2 months ago
@indignant99 And those same influential scientists would probably put Newton above them. Look why don't you do the research. And see what most scientists feel about Newton okay?
TOTCD 2 months ago
@TOTCD He also spent the last half of his life trying to turn lead into gold.
BrotherAlpha 2 months ago
@BrotherAlpha Lol hahaha
TOTCD 2 months ago
@TOTCD lol but look at the time period he lived in. he was never exposed to the theory evolution or the big bang theory. he did not have access to the information we have today. :)
ymkamara420 2 months ago
@ymkamara420 That is a very good point you make.
But I was just trying to point out that some smart people can also be religious.
And what I hate about people with no religion is they try to paint all religious people as dumb. Just let them do their thing as long as it doesn't hurt others.
Or doesn't come in the way of scientific research and medicine.
TOTCD 2 months ago
@TOTCD - "But I was just trying to point out that some smart people can also be religious."
.
So? Smart people can also be insane, even dangerous. There are plenty of smart people in prison. Sir Isaac was just flat batty on some issues. Pascal was also clearly bright - and used that intelligence (and his faith) to drive himself into the ground.
.
The fact remains - there is a clear correlation between a lack of religiosity and success - at the personal, or national level.
47f0 2 months ago
@47f0 oh yeah? how many atheist presidents have we had?
shittyfagg 2 months ago
@shittyfagg To become president, one has to appeal to the majority. Unfortunately the majority believe in nonsense. Who knows how many presidents were actually atheists?
truthiness2010 2 months ago
@shittyfagg - well, honestly, probably several. There are quotes by Lincoln, for example, that would have today's evangelists marching on the White House with pitchforks and torches. But is an upper-level civil management job actually as successful as say, a Mark Zuckerberg or Sir Richard Branson or Ricky Gervais?
47f0 2 months ago
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@shittyfagg "oh yeah? how many atheist presidents have we had?"
Okay, so your notion is that the President is smart, the President is Religious, therefore there are smart people who are Religious.
We just went through 8 years of Dubya.
You were saying?
SpitfireOFatj 2 months ago
@TOTCD Did it ever occur to you that funding came from the King and therefore he was expected to link science with religion?
SpitfireOFatj 2 months ago
@TOTCD I fail to see how pointing out that well known attribute of Issac Newton has anything to do with the average intellectual capability of an entire modern nation.
broodwarplayer 2 months ago
@broodwarplayer If you fail to see it, then sorry dude no conversation lol
TOTCD 2 months ago
@TOTCD Was he religious or did he just not want to be killed?
burntonion05 2 months ago
@burntonion05 No he was really religious lol.
he wrote more religious texts than he did on math,physics etc
TOTCD 2 months ago
@TOTCD Newton believed in alchemy too. His religious beliefs were such mostly because everybody beieved them 500 years ago. His research was the beginning of getting out of the religious mindset, Copernicus, Mendel, and the other scientists that came out of the religious system only did so because religious organisations of that time were the only centres of learning.
dangerouslytalented 2 months ago
@TOTCD Compared to now he would probably have as much knowledge of science as most of us, he never had the technology or information we have now.
SuperJBrowne 2 months ago
@TOTCD Many great scientists, mathematicians, and philosophers (Pascal, Leibniz, Descartes) believed in God, but I believe it's a bit misleading to say they were religious, since many were not religious in the way that the average person is religious. Many of them were rational thinkers who approached religion very differently than those who jumped in with blind faith. There are rational paths to believing in God (however flawed), but your average bible thumper follows a more sheeplike path.
nothlithawk777 2 months ago
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@TOTCD "saac Newton was the greatest scientist of all time.
Yet he was very religious.
From an agnostic..."
He was a deist who considered followers of Christ to be idol worshipers.
He was also warden of the Royal Mint and chased down counterfeiters.
SpitfireOFatj 2 months ago
In as much as I am an unapologetic atheist & a left wing radical, I can't just hand over my credibility card to IQs. You can't quantify intellect. I'm a firm purporter of educational value. But I've no problem with people having religion. It's just the Jesus freaks who are the problem. Furthermore, this sociological study can't find a causal link; simply a correlary one. That implied link is a slippery slope fallacy in itself.
upabittoolate 2 months ago