Not to mention what they show on the screen is not what Obama produced on his website. Not even CLOSE! These are comedians not journalists. They are paid for by Obama TV! It's a big joke all right.
In the days of old BEFORE copiers (1970's) how did they make "COPIES"? How was it done? No one has an original? I do. How is that possible? It was called DUPLICATE documents and apparently no one remembers anything before 1984. I have a DUPLICATE that was made along side of the OTHER duplicate. Ever hear the term triplicate? What wass carbon paper used for?
Hardball is obviously presenting a BIAS distorted mockery of journalism. This is hype, pure pro Obama hype! OPINION or commentary not fact!
A duplicate is not an original. And in the days before copiers they typically typed up a copy by hand. It's possible you have a carbon duplicate of yours, as there are tens of thousands of different birth certificate types and agencies issuing them in the U.S., but that was not how it was done most of the time.
Would they do this if his name wasn't BHO? Yes they would and they did. Obama signed a resolution that required McCain show his original before he could run against Obama. Obama is a Birther, but not a natural born citizen. His whole life is a lie.
No... McCain never showed his birth certificate at all. Obama co-sponsored a bill declaring McCain to be an NBC without any debate or investigation. Obama has shown his birth certificate. McCain never did. Nor did Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, etc. In fact, Obama is the first President since Eisenhower to show it.
chrissie matthews is the cutest fag ever. he squats to take a leak. obama is a homosexual, illegal, muslim porch monkey and chrissie loves him and anderson cooper, david corn, shepard smith, huell howser, david geffen, larry sinclair, david gregory, and all the other homos. Go to: Her Name is Ms Ann. Rev. Manning will explain.
Wow, Clarence Page was totally right! They finally found a copy and released it, and these idiot birthers still won't believe it. Thanks for posting the great MSNBC video!
The same thing happened when John McCain was seeking the nomination against George Bush. John McCain stepped up like an honorable man and supplied his birth certificate, because he had nothing to hide. Obama refuses to step up to the plate, why. What has Obama got to hide. All he has to do is honor the requests of American citizen and supply the long form certificate. How hard can it be. Why continue to divide the country on this issue? just getter done Obama.
@MyTeigan its okay, we'll just send Trump up in November to say "You're fired"! Then Trump can reverse the executive order Obama used to seal all his records, and we can put the entire leftist media on a Deportation Flotilla to Cuba, for Treason!
@arrrogantlyignorant the COLB is NOT a birth certificate... for crying out loud this is getting tedious, do you smoke pot? Just wondering, because it seems you forget alot....
"the certification form "contains all the information needed by all federal government agencies for transactions requiring a birth certificate."
She added that the U.S. Supreme Court has recognized the state's current certification of live birth "as an official birth certificate meeting all federal and other requirements."
(Janice Okubo - Hawaii Dept of Health Spokesperson)
@arrrogantlyignorant there is only ONE situation where Natural Born status matters, and that is a rare issue. But when Hawaii issued COLBs to births registered but not necessarily born there; it is a question that needs answering.. That is all! It's not asking for his circumcision records, or his confessional tapes, or diary; its asking for a detail that is not answered by this COLB, but IS answerable since HI has the record with the Doctor's signature and the hospital name.
Right and since we know he was born in Hawaii, we know he is a natural born citizen. Why would Hawaii have the original birth certificate, if he was born elsewhere?
"its asking for a detail that is not answered by this COLB,"
@arrrogantlyignorant the doctor's signature attesting to the live birth, and the hospital name. It's on the actual certificate. If his family registered his birth in Honolulu (since they were resident's and Hawaii issued COLBs like this until 1972), the state documents would settle whether or not he was registered in Honolulu, or actually Delivered there. It's on the Actual Birth Certificate, and its not unreasonable to ask for this form.
Who was George Bush's delivering doctor? Who was Clinton's doctor?
There is no Constitutional requirement that the President has to be born in a hospital.
Its unreasonable to ask for something that the State of Hawaii no longer issues, especially in light of the fact that he already provided document that is prima facie evidence that he was born when and where it says he was.
@arrrogantlyignorant he didn't provide prima facie evidence unless he sent that form to settle the court cases, instead the Lawyers he sent argued against having to provide any documentation. I don't know who Bush & Clinton's doctors were, but if people had asked them for a birth certificate and they instead had posted a factcheck jpeg WITHOUT that information, it would be suspect. Not even that COLB has been submitted in any Official situation.
I'm tired of hearing about this birther shit. I'm really tired of every Hardball show covering it.Hey Matthews?Know why this Birther issue continues? Because you don't shut the fuck up & leave it alone.You are the asshole that keeps perpetrating this! I couldn't give a shit where Obama is from.All I know is the bastard got us into Libya just like Dubyah.O's lost my vote in 2012.Since I equally hate Repubs I'm not even voting. Fuck all.David Corn! Save some money & buy an upper lip dumb ass.
@bootyraider I love how they show the stamped signature on the back (of the registrar stamping the copy) and say 'see here's the signature...'. Cracks me up and depresses me at the same time. How could they be so stupid as to not know what we are talking about. A certified copy of the original document is what most states use. It contains the signature of the mother and doctor attesting to the live birth. Why would that be important?!?! LMAO
Nope genius. A certified computer printout is what most states uses today. And what do you think they did before copy machines, genius?
But the real point is it doesn't matter what you think "most states uses." It doesn't even have to be what "most states uses." All it has to be is certified by the state of HI and that, my ignorant friend, is THAT.
@Mystylplx you do realize that computer printouts that states use today can also contain those signatures? Or maybe your state still uses a dot matrix or a electric typewriter?
If this COLB from factcheck is so sufficient, why isn't it sent to the Court cases seeking eligibility? If 'THAT' indeed would be 'THAT'? Maybe there is a reason this 'image' is used instead of providing the Birth Certificate?
@photolitherland You do realize fox news is part of the 2 card monty? They are the same as CNN, MSNBC etc. and ALL of them repeat the lie that the COLB settles the issue. If the COLB could settle any of these issues, Obama would have sent it to the court cases, instead of paying lawyers to defend why he shouldn't have to provide it..... Doctor's signature or the birth didn't happen? Understand the reasons doctors & mother's sign the form in the first place?!
Yes, dimwit, now read the rest of the sentence which is only talking about those who "may be born beyond the sea." Are you actually dumb enough to claim you have to be "born beyond the sea" to be a natural born citizen?
And once again, the first Congress specifically REJECTED the notion that citizen parents are required for those born on the soil. The opposition debate was lead by the father of the Constitution--James Madison.
@Mystylplx we don't have compelling evidence he was born on US soil. Hawaii had a loop hole that makes the detail deficient COLB insufficient for establishing certainty of the birth. There is no hospital listed, nor a Doctor's signature.... not even the Mother's signature. At the time Hawaii gave COLBs to children registered, but whom may not have been born there. Look at their website if you don't believe me.
Hawaii does not issue birth documents saying that you were born there, if you weren't born there. Thats pure birther myth. The certificate will state the country of origin. Can you cite an actual law that supports what you're claiming here?
@arrrogantlyignorant who certified where he was born? The COLB tells us nothing. THe Birth Certificate would have the signature of his mother & the doctor, as well as the hospital; thus, it would settle EVERYTHING!
The State Registrar and the Hawaii Dept of Health certify the documents. The COLB is printed from information contained in the database. As of 2001, all vital records at the Hawaii Dept of Health were converted to electronic format. The COLB tells us all we need to know. Constitutionally, all that matters is Time (age) and Place (citizenship) of birth. The COLB is a valid, legal, State certified birth certificate.
@arrrogantlyignorant Details matter. The COLB is insufficient to validate Natural Born Status, because of Hawaiian law at the time of the birth, which allowed for the issuing of COLBs to parents who registered the birth of their child. The detailed form would reveal whether he indeed was born at the hospital where a doctor signed attesting to this fact, or if the birth was merely registered with the Honolulu office....
@arrrogantlyignorant of course the Original Birth Certificate was signed by a Doctor!!! Let's see THAT form, because THAT form verifies if the birth actually happened in Hawaii, or was merely registered in Hawaii. How hard is this? Oh wait, I just noticed your sign on name... arrogantly ignorant... have you been toying with me?
I'm not toying with anyone. What makes you think that? The thing that many people don't realize is that legally, the COLB carries the same weight as the long form does. In the eyes of the law, Obama is legit because he provided a valid, legal, State certified birth certificate. The exact one that was issued when he requested a certified copy of his birth certificate. The exact same form that ANYone and EVERYone is issued when they order certified copies of their bc from Hawaii.
@arrrogantlyignorant but he didn't actually submit that COLB to anyone, no one required it! Factcheck posted a jpeg, and Gibbs said "there it is", but that is completely different from handing that to an official or even to a News outlet, where they would be held liable for its accuracy.
@arrrogantlyignorant its not sufficient to say "my friends took a picture of my document and posted it online, so that should be sufficient for you....", if you or I need to submit a birth certificate for some reason, we wont be able to use the same technic....
Correct, but I would definitely be able to use the same document that Obama has.
Lets see... we could get Obama to lobby Congress to allocate several billion dollars (not counting postage and envelopes) so he could order 300 million certified copies and have it sent to the bulk of American citizens.
Not very feasible... so he did the next best thing... released it to the public via the internet.
@arrrogantlyignorant seriously, I don't personally need to handle it or even see it, if someone official (judge, Congress etc) would validate something. The Hawaiian official could have done so, but carefully reading her speech, she does lawyer speak "I....have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures".
The reason for the so called "lawyer speak" is because she is bound by Hawaii Revised Statute §338-18.
She was not allowed to say what it said.
Btw, Dr Fukino no longer works in that capacity. She was appointed by then Republican Gov Linda Lingle. Neal Abercrombie will appoint his own Director of Health.
@arrrogantlyignorant okay, but can you at least see the argument here? There are psychos clouding this issue with lameness, the real point is simple and legitimate. Was Obama's birth registered in Hawaii, or was he definitively delivered in Hawaii, because the COLB is not conclusive. Maybe he was born in a hippy compound on the island, but with no witnesses and it would extend the 'controversy'? But at least it would be credible, I'd believe that scenario over a Kenya birth.....
Honestly, I think that people get far to caught up in unrealistic conspiracies. ( not saying you are)
The main reason I feel it IS conclusive is because I have the exact same document (COLB) from Hawaii.
I cannot get my long form because they don't issue them anymore. I do remember seeing it 30+ years ago but with both parents gone and having moved several times... no idea where it went.
My COLB has never been rejected nor have I ever had to provide any additional info. It is my BC.
@arrrogantlyignorant not from Hawaii for a birth in the 60s, at which time one could obtain a COLB while not having a verified Hawaiian birth. If the COLB settled any of these questions, Obama would have sent it to the Court cases, rather than sending lawyers.
"at which time one could obtain a COLB while not having a verified Hawaiian birth"
Please cite an actual law that supports your assertion here. What you are claiming is pure birther myth.
Obviously, you havent actually read the cases. None of them were only for the birth certificate. In most of them, Obama was not the only defendant. In many, he wasn't even named. The cases were dismissed. He was never ordered to show it.
@arrrogantlyignorant I KNOW he wasn't ordered to show it, the judges ruled no one had standing to ask him to show it. That's the point! How can you say the courts ruled on it, when they refused to actually validate ANYTHING!?! Don't be a Useful Idiot
"judges ruled no one had standing to ask him to show it"
Thats simply disingenuous. They dismissed some of the CASES for lack of standing, not lack of standing to ask to show it. You're bending the truth. Again.. none of the cases were only for the birth certificate. In most, Obama was not the only defendant and in many he wasn't even named.
Resorting to name calling only diminishes your credibility as well as the validity of your argument.
HI has no such loophole, and even if they did read Article IV section I of the United States Constitution to further your education. I.e. even if it were true (it's not) HI had some such "loophole" it still wouldn't matter. The U.S. Constitution says we must accept it.
@Mystylplx don't be such an obamabot. You need to separate yourself from your fanboy adulation that keeps you from accurately viewing issues. It mattered, and if it didn't, he wouldn't have released the more thorough form the people have been asking for. If you want to continue this discussion, find the mediamatters trolls who are fanning the flames by putting out the idea that even this form is fake. As for me, and most accused as 'birthers' by the leftist, this issue is resolved.
You need to separate yourself from the nutball birthers who are polluting your viewpoint. None of what you say is actually accurate and all of it comes from birthers--who you apparently at, least partly, believe. There's no difference in the legal weight of the "long form" or the "short form" and HI won't give "short forms" since 2001. It's really that simple--He's the first President since Eisenhower to release his birth certificate and the nuts are still screaming where's the BC!?
@Mystylplx there is only ONE situation where Natural Born Status applies, and out of a population of 235 million, it is only applicable to 1 person every 4 years. Verification of citizenship is one thing, verifying NBS is another. Anyway, its resolved, man. We're cool...
Obama is the first President since Eisenhower to show his birth certificate. If it takes a birth certificate to prove NBC then Obama is the FIRST one since Eisenhower to do so.
I don't believe he was born in Kenya, but shit, there is NOTHING on this guy, so yea, I'd like to see this birth certificate. As far as putting the ad in the paper, jeeze, maybe the grandparents wanted this new baby to be an American because being an American is the best thing that can happen to a baby. Jeez, just put this down and show us your birth certificate!
go on dogpile images, and type in obama birth certificate. there go all hopes and dreams of every birther. now u all know he was born here and 1. u think its fak, well u keep complaining about ho he wont produce it and when he does u call it fake. wat could we possibly do to get u to believe he was born here. get jesus to come down and tell u.
Crazy town? Chris Matthews is a JOKE of a reporter. He's been on Obama's team from the beginning. The shifty spineless rat shifted his views just to be an establishment-supporting reporter.
Oh yeah, and he HAS released his records. It's almost funny--he's the first President since Eisenhower to release his birth certificate, yet all the birfers keep screaming "where's the birth certificate?"
Funny how his fathers citizenship is well known but not one Constitutional scholar thinks that makes him ineligible. He was sworn in by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, who obviously didn't think he was ineligible...
Plus the founding fathers REJECTED that notion in 1789 when a guy named David Ramsay made it to the first Congress. He argued that citizen parents were required to be NBC and they REJECTED it 36-1.
@Mystylplx you didn't notice the details? All those lawyers around, and interestingly enough, he didn't say the actual oath correctly, remember that? Then latter, supposedly went back and did it in the office, without the Bible... .I know it gets ridiculous; but comeon, something shifty is going on; or they are just trying to entertain us all with the intrigue...
Doesn't matter if there was a doctors sig. or not. Completely irrelevant. What do you think they did before there were copy machines?
He's the first President since Eisenhower to release his birth certificate. The only "anomaly" is that birthers keep screaming "where's the birth certificate?" to the only President to have actually already released it in decades.
Nope. McCain never showed his birth certificate to anyone except one reporter. The Senate never did any investigating--it was just a rubber stamp, passed with no debate, and McCain himself never even showed up for the vote.
I guess I should have said HI hasn't given photocopies since 2001. The Nordyke twins got there's back in the 60's when they were still giving photocopies.
And you should look up David Ramsays story. He made the argument to the first Congress (all founding fathers) that citizen parents were required to be NBC. The opposition debate was lead by none other than James Madison, the father of the Constitution. They rejected Ramsays argument 36-1.
James Madison, in response to Ramsays argument that citizen parents are required to be NBC, said--
"It is an established maxim, that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth, however, derives its force sometimes from place, and sometimes from parentage; but, in general place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States."
And even Ramsay used the phrase correctly to mean "citizen at birth." Even he wasn't trying to redefine it into some 3rd kind of citizenship.
@Mystylplx Newspaper announcements won't let you do anything.
I personally know someone whose child was born at home, in Honolulu in 1965. She placed an announcement of the birth in the local newspaper, and on that basis, was able to enroll the child in kindergarten.
You think all those Mexican kids in US schools show birth certificates? Where have you been?
Baloney. The announcements were placed by the HI DOH. All birth announcements were placed by the DOH in HI back then. Your friend is telling you a bit of a fairytale if she told you SHE placed the announcements.
@Mystylplx Hawaiians could register births after the fact, and when submitted to get the COLB, it would have been listed in the paper; but it doesn't prove he was born in Hawaii, until we see the Doctor's signature attesting to the birth, along with the Hospital name & Mother's sig....
When did your friend tell you about the placement of this newspaper birth announcement? Did they show it to you? Can you provide the date, name of the newspaper, and child’s first name?
You can place almost any announcement you like in a newspaper but if you personally place a birth or death announcement it will not appear under the column with the heading Vital Statistics. Newspapers only accept those from government agencies.
1) Many people born in the days of typewriters and carbon copies have a carbon copy of the original (page 1 only) of their birth FACTS document and it is labeled BIRTH CERTIFICATE. But is in NOT a birth certificate, it’s the carbon copy of (page 1) the document sent to the cognizant state authority (e.g., Health Department) for validation.
2) The reason page 2 is, typically, not seen by most people is it contains dual medical privacy information: mommy’s prior number of pregnancies, live births, birth defects, were forceps used, caesarian section, etc.
3) After this authority has validated the information, an “accepted” (the term “filed” is also used) date is attached to this document and kept in archive. In the past when you wanted an OFFICIAL birth certificate, a copy of this “accepted” document was placed on background paper, with a registrar’s signature, date of issuance, and raised seal.
4) After the advent of photocopiers the background paper was often laminated with a very thin page containing, in large bold letters “V O I D” which would only appear in bright light or a photocopy. This is the type of birth certificate Donald Trump has produced. Modern, “long forms” (no longer issued by many states) have all the same information but the photocopy (actually photo-scan) is placed on watermark security paper.
5) As of April 1, 2011 birth validation documents that are NOT printed on security paper, will not be accepted by the federal government. Obama’s COLD is printed on security paper but Trumps is not, not to worry, all Donald has to do is go get a new one from New York. It will probably be a COLB and look very nearly like Obama’s.
6) Another reason many people think the hospital souvenir carbon copy IS their birth certificate is because up until false identity, large scale illegal immigration, etc. became an issue. Most authorities would accept the hospital souvenir carbon copy because they trusted most people. If anybody has a hospital souvenir carbon copy and they want to find out how worthless it now is, all they need do is try to get a passport with it – it will not be accepted.
7) The “short form” which Hawaii calls a COLB is issued by most states and is accepted for identification by all states and the federal government with one major exception: border states such as California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas (not sure about Nevada and Utah), etc. You need a “long form” from these states because of known and established birth fraud. The feds want to do some double checking if you were birthed by a midwife or not born in a medical facility if you are from these states.
@bjphysics nice info, so are you saying the border states use long forms to cut down on known and established birth fraud?! That has absolutely nothing to do with this issue.... lol
7) The “short form” which Hawaii calls a COLB is issued by most states and is accepted for identification by all states and the federal government with two major exceptions: the border states of California and Texas. You need a “long form” from these states because of known and established birth fraud. The feds want to do some double checking if you were birthed by a midwife or not born in a medical facility if you are from these states
Yes, but HI doesn't give certified photocopies of the so-called "long form."
BTW, "long form" and "short form" are not legal terms and there's no real agreement on what they mean. SC, for instance, also won't give photocopies (like HI) but they give a computer printout (like Obama's) which they call a "long form." What they call a "short form" is the wallet sized card. Basically these are meaningless terms. (Short form and long form)
I can understand why "birthers" want to verify,,,,they do have a good point. It is not too much to ask for, and Obama's resistance only causes more distrust. Obama has only shown a short-form and needs to comply with the law.
He's the first President since Eisenhower to show his birth certificate. There's no law requiring him to show it, but he has anyway. And there's no legal difference between a "short form" and a "long form." They are both certified birth certificates. HI doesn't give photocopies any more. Neither do MO, SC, or PA. He's shown the only kind of birth certificate HI gives.
You can understand how people might think it's about race. He's the only President to have shown his birth certificate, yet birfoons keep trying to hold him to a double standard. Why the double standard if it's not about race?
@Mystylplx Uh no Bush had to show his and so did McCain when he just ran for president. The only thing Barry has shown is a printed paper, nothing original. I have my original and copies. My parents have the same and they are older then him so there is no excuse as to why he doesn't have the original.
Wrong. Bush never showed his nor McCain. Nor do you have your original. No one does. The original goes to the state and the state gives certified copies. You might have a photocopy of the original, but not the original.
from Huffingtonpost "Reagan and Bush showed their birth certificates. Not to mention you have to prove that you are a US citizen, and you do that by showing that you were born in the us.” And I know that McCain was required to show something about his birth when he ran but I never followed up on it since it never because an issue.
There's a BC purporting to be McCain's on the internet, but it didn't come from McCain. It came from the court filings of a McCain birther who was suing McCain. It says McCain was born in a civilian hospital outside the canal zone. McCain says he was born in a base hospital inside the canal zone. Anyway, it's fake. McCain never released his birth certificate. Neither did Bush, Clinton, Bush Sr., Reagan, etc. Obama's the only one who has. So I'll ask again--why the double standard?
@Mystylplx You are either ill informed or a liar. Eisenhower was required to show his. George Romney was refused a place on the ballot in 1969 because he was not a NBC. Mc Cain was required by Congress to produce his long form BC, Senate Resolution 511 was subsecuently passed declaring his NBC status and Constitutional eligibily. Interestingly, it wa signed by Obama. Obama is a dual citizen at best, ergo he is not a NBC. FAIL.
No, Eisenhower was not "required" to show his. He did show it, just as Obama has. Nor did McCain ever produce any birth certificate at all. The Senate passed a non-binding resolution (S.Res.511) that was co-sponsored by Obama and Hillary Clinton, that was simply a rubber stamp. There was no investigation, no debate, it simply stated McCain is NBC.
And Romney was born in Mexico. Obama was born in HI. And he lost the nomination to Nixon.
You can pretend it's "fraudulent" all you want, yet that's another thing ONLY birthers believe. Not one single forensics expert agrees--in fact, ultra conservative World Net Daily hired experts to look at the certificate and they (much to WND's chagrin) found it to be authentic.
@Mystylplx Another out right lie. Hawaii doesn't even have a record of it, they won't confirm it. Debating is one thing, dealing with a liar is another. How much you get paid for this?
Again, you can believe whatever you like, but the HI DOH has confirmed multiple times they have it. Linda Lingle, who was the Republican Gov., also said she's seen it.
And I don't get paid, but if you know anyone who would be willing to pay me please send me the info--I could use the money!
@Mystylplx She never said she saw it, she said a subordinate revied it. Then Abecrombie comes along and says it isn't there. No one in Hawaii has ever vouche for the BC that was presented on the internet. Nice try.
Abecrombie never said it isn't there. This is the problem when you get all your info from nutball blogs--MOST of what they say are lies and that's an example. Basically that bit if disinfo came from a guy named Mike Evans, who later retracted it. Abecrombie himself has said it IS there.
And whether Lingle herself looked at it or sent a subordinate, she said it was "on the up-and-up." And referred to him as being born in HI.
@Mystylplx The hell he didn't. STOP LYING. Obama may have been born in Hawaii, he's still not eligible. You really think the Founding Fathers would have allowed the son of a foreigner to beome POTUS? That would be delusional. Good bye.
It's easy enough to check. Abecrombie NEVER said that. Mike Evans claimed he said it then retracted it.
And the framers said the President had to be a "Natural born U.S. citizen." They never said anything about the citizenship of the parents which, quite naturally, they didn't care about. It's the citizenship of the President that counts--not the Presidents parents.
@Mystylplx LOL, so African is a race eh? You should google Ramsay and NBC, then look up the authors of the 14th and see what they had to say. You are really quite the deceiver.
You are quite the idiot. The father filled out the form and listed his race as "african." So that's what it says.
And Ramsay made his argument to the first Congress (many of them framers) who REJECTED his argument. The opposition debate was lead by none other than the Father of the Constitution himself, James Madison.
And I don't need to see what the authors of the 14th said--just what the 14th itself says.
@Mystylplx LOL...I'm an idiot. There is and has never been a race designation as "African". I suppose Mexican or American is a race too? In 1961, the designation would have been Negro or Negroid or even possibly Black. Yes you do need to see what the authors of the 14th said, it was their intent "idiot" Madison wanted foreigners to be able to spawn future Presidents? YOu're insane. Yeah, Putin or Mao could father the future POTUS, though I think you would stand for that too. FO commie lover
Yep, you are an idiot. His father wrote "african" so that's what went on the form.
And yep, Madison and the first Congress rejected Ramsays arguments 36-1. That pretty well says it all. Ramsay argued that citizen parents were required to be NBC and those who actually wrote the Constitution REJECTED his argument.
And "intent" has nothing to do with anything. It's what the 14th actually says that counts.
@Mystylplx Nope, Fathers do not get to determing nomenclature on an officilal Government document. Sorry, you desperation is showing. You respond immediatly to all posts, you don't have a job? Oops, this is it, forgot. Intent has everything to do with Amendments, it's why they are written for the tie. They're not written to support your perversions of their meanings to match your political, marxist leanings. BTW, you comrad Hillary started this, is she a right wing 'birther'?
@Mystylplx It is truly amazing to see the depths you obots will sink to to defend this marxist, commie anti American pos FAILURE. If the tables were turned and it was a R in office, you would be saying the EXACT opposite. Go get your chen form axelgrease fool.
Funny how we never HAVE done so... I was no fan of Bush's, but I never made up a bunch of lies about he was ineligible to be President. I never tried to rewrite the Constitution or made up ridiculous stories about how Bush was reeeaaaallllyyyy born in Yugoslavia.
Nope, you birfoons have a monopoly on that sort of absurdity.
@Mystylplx And you're not paid to do this...lol you have been here all day long on call. FUCK YOU (Rahm, Valerie, Samatha, Axelgrease, Soros) paid troll!
Wrong again! A few Hillary supporters (not Hillary herself) started this--and yes they were birthers. Most conservatives are NOT birthers. Birthers that were Hillary supporters are just as nutty as any other birthers.
James Madison (the Father of the U.S. Constitution), speaking in response to David Ramsay's argument that citizen parents are required to be NBC, said--
"It is an established maxim, that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth, however, derives its force sometimes from place, and sometimes from parentage; but, in general place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States."
The first Congress REJECTED Ramsays argument 36-1.
@Mystylplx Fucking LIAR, the first congress defined NBC" Permit me to hint whether it would not be wise and reasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government, and to declare expressly that the Command in Chief of the American army shall not be given to nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen." Fuck off lying troll obot commie supporting POS!
Dimwit, that's a letter from John Jay to Washington NOT the first Congress. And Jay meant "citizen at birth" which is what the phrase actually means. Even Ramsay meant the same thing by it. In fact Jay underlined the word "born" to make his meaning even MORE clear.
The father of the Constitution, James Madison, said (in response to Ramsay)--
"It is an established maxim, that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth, however, derives its force sometimes from place, and sometimes from parentage; but, in general place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States."
Oh, and see SCOTUS decision in Perkins V Elg which specifically states a person can be a dual citizen AND a natural born U.S. citizen. The two are not mutually exclusive. Only birthers think they are. Not one single legal scholar agrees.
No, sorry. The only BS here is coming from birthers who are trying to rewrite history and the Constitution. See Perkins Vs. Elg, where SCOTUS declared Marie Elg (a dual citizen) to be a natural born U.S. citizen. No one but birthers think dual citizenship disqualifies him.
Wrong again. The court upheld the decision in (Aetna Life Ins. Co. v. Haworth, 300 U. S. 227) which called her a "natural born citizen." Even if they didn't specifically use those words they upheld the decision of the lower court which did. They also referred to her as a "citizen at birth" which is the same thing as NBC.
Nice wordy shell game you MSLSD empty suits full of crap. 3 Leftist pigs pretending to debate an issue that they all agree upon while they enjoy full throttle thrills up their legs.....
He DID show his birth certificate long ago. Interestingly, he's the only President in U.S. history to have done so, but you birfoons just can't deal with reality.
@bjphysics The Obots have their kool-aid too. Instead of deadly poison, it's an addictive hallucinagenic. Many users have rehabbed, however, and that's a good thing.
If Obama's original 1961 birth certificate does not exist then where did the certificate of live birth come from. Ther electronic document that Obama's campaign team produced was not the official document issued in 1961. Obama's COLB served as an abstract of the original document. If the original document never existed, then the COLB is a fake and Obama is a fraud. The public has never seen the original certificate and Obama refuses to produce it. Occam's Razor is hard to ignore.
@RundesViereck Yes it is. The man ran a campaign for President from early 2007 until the election in 2008 and has sat in the White House since Jan. of '09 and in all this time not one opponent or journalist has found any evidence that he was born anywhere but Honolulu. Occam's Razor seems to show that he was born in Hawaii. Glad that you agree.
@tgear77 Occam's razor + refusal to release the original 1961 birth certificate says I'm right. The COLB only had value as an abstract of the original document - which the public has never verified and which we were told existed. If the original document does not exist, then the COLB is worthless and the White House and Hawaii officials are liars. The fact that "birther" and "racist" are the common fallacious responses to these legitimate unanswered questions is further cause for concern.
@RundesViereck Occam's razor + the fact that no one has found anything to prove he was not born in Hawaii despite having Millions of dollars to spend and untold man-hours to enlist says that I am right. McCain's campaign, Hilary's campaign, Biden's and Edwards' campaigns, the RNC, the GOP, the FEC, every reporter covering the campaign never found one smattering of proof that he was not legitimate. Yet you Birthers choose to ignore the reality.
@tgear77 The skeptics have never maintained that we have absolute proof that he was not born in Hawaii. We simply claim that there is enough cumulative evidence to suggest that there was never an original 1961 birth certificate. Instead of produce the original document and end the debate from day one, Obama chose to release a COLB that is worthless if the original 1961 document doesn't exist. Instead of respond intelligently to our concerns, we have been called "racists" and "birthers".
@RundesViereck First off, by releasing the COLB on "day One", Obama went further than any other previous Presidential candidate. Second, there is no "cumulative evidence", let alone enough. What you Birthers have is nothing but assumptions and lies. No competent attorney would go forward with such a case because it boils down to "We don't like what he has already shown us". There is no reason to respond to you Birthers because you have presented nothing worth responding to.
@tgear77 Which "assumptions" and "lies"? Explain yourself, tsmear77. Also, as you know, the COLB is worthless without an original birth certificate - which Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie now says may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health. The Hawaii Department of Health has refused to authenticate the COLB posted on the Internet by Snopes and FactCheck. But I thought this was a settled issue, tsmear77?
@RundesViereck Well, look who is so clever, trying to turn my user name into an insult. Typical Birther nonsense. Which assumption or lie would you like to start with? How about the one about Hawaii DOH refusing to authenticate the COLB. Big time lie. WND, that oh so wonderful website of lies, after printing smear after smear, sent an email to the DOH asking them to confirm the COLB and the DOH refused to answer them. Why? Because they don't play Birther games. Learn the facts.
@tgear77 "Because they don't play birther games"? Is that just your slant, tsmear77? Or is that what the DOH wrote? LOL. Fact: the Hawaii DOH has refused to authenticate the COLB. Fact: the COLB is worthless without an original 1961 birth certificate. Fact: even Chris Matthews now admits at 2:07 that "he (Obama) doesn't have the other kind (original birth certificate). Fact: this issue is not resolved just because a liberal vermin says it is. Fact: tsmear77 is a schmuck.
@RundesViereck Lie #1: that the DOH has refused to authenticate it. Wrong. But go ahead and act like WND is a legitimate source. Lie#2: the existence of the COLB verifies the existence of the long form. In fact, ask yourself this, moron, if this is such a huge conspiracy, then why wouldn't they have forged the long form BC? And why would they have produced a forged COLB with questionable material such as the father's race? Lie #3: Liberal vermin. The only vermin here are the Reptards, like you.
@tgear77 The question is not whether or not WND is a legitimate source; of course you think they are illegitimate - you are a liberal vermin so that's to be expected on your part. No, the more important question would be: what is a "legitimate" source for tsmear77? You still have failed to disprove my original claim that the COLB has not been authenticated by the DOH. In fact, all the DOH has done is claim to have seen the "vital records" which the Govenor now says do not exist. Try Again.
@RundesViereck "Liberal vermin", how mature. It's nice to know I am arguing with a 7 year old. There is no question as to whether or not WND is legitimate: they are not. That is a fact. The original claim is that the DOH refused to authenticate the COLB. That is a lie. You are asking me to prove something that never happened. Only a Birther moron would try to pull that trick. And no, Abercrombie did not say that they do not exist. But don't let the facts interfere with your lunacy.
@tgear77 You say that WND is "not legitimate". That is your opinion. That is not yet an established fact. The fact that your infantile (perhaps the "7 year old" comment was a freudian slip on your part in this context) mind cannot make that distincition is entertaining. How do you know that the DOH refusing to authenticate the COLB "never happened"? Oh, I know. Because WND reported it. And WND is not to be trusted? A liberal vermin told me so, and I trust the schmuck. LOL. Try Again.
@RundesViereck Joseph Farah has a long history of pushing Right Wing propaganda. WND has been called out time and time again for printing falsehoods and making up articles. They make Fox News actually look Fair and Balanced. WND is no more a legitimate news source due to its Right Wing bias than The Daily Kos is due to its left wing bias. Only an idiot like yourself would try and pass off WND as any kind of bastion of truth. So keep on proving your ignorance. You're doing a wonderful job.
@tgear77 Again, what do you consider a "legitimate" source of news? I am earnestly awaiting your response to that key question. But you will probably answer that question by attacking WND rather than DEMONSTRATING how WND is "prinitng falsehoods and making up articles". I am more concerned with information than with who is reporting it. The information can always be evaluated indepedently of the person or outlet reporting it. You have failed to demonstrate WND's reporting to be false.
@RundesViereck In 2000, WND published over 20 articles claiming that they helped Al Gore lose Tennessee in the election. It made claims attributed to a Gore staffer. He sued for libel and won in 2007. WND and Farah had to admit that it lied in those articles. In 2004, WND was proven to have lied in an article about John Kerry having an affair. Also that year, Farah himself wrote that Teresa Heinz, Kerry's wife, gave money to 'radical causes'. The money went to environmental projects....
@tgear77 (cont) Farah wrote articles bashing conservative David Bossie, calling him "extremely incompetent" and saying that he "deliberately sabotaged investigations". Then Farah went and hired Bossie to write for WND. That is just the tip of the iceberg. See, this is called backing up a claim. Which is more than can be said for your weakass posts. I said that WND was not legitimate and I have proven it. They publish lies and distortions. So go be a pinhead and believe what they print.
Malarkey? LOL The only malarkey is your pathetic show Mathews
wipemysmile 5 months ago
Not to mention what they show on the screen is not what Obama produced on his website. Not even CLOSE! These are comedians not journalists. They are paid for by Obama TV! It's a big joke all right.
ObamanationTV 6 months ago
In the days of old BEFORE copiers (1970's) how did they make "COPIES"? How was it done? No one has an original? I do. How is that possible? It was called DUPLICATE documents and apparently no one remembers anything before 1984. I have a DUPLICATE that was made along side of the OTHER duplicate. Ever hear the term triplicate? What wass carbon paper used for?
Hardball is obviously presenting a BIAS distorted mockery of journalism. This is hype, pure pro Obama hype! OPINION or commentary not fact!
ObamanationTV 6 months ago
@ObamanationTV
A duplicate is not an original. And in the days before copiers they typically typed up a copy by hand. It's possible you have a carbon duplicate of yours, as there are tens of thousands of different birth certificate types and agencies issuing them in the U.S., but that was not how it was done most of the time.
Mystylplx 5 months ago
Would they do this if his name wasn't BHO? Yes they would and they did. Obama signed a resolution that required McCain show his original before he could run against Obama. Obama is a Birther, but not a natural born citizen. His whole life is a lie.
lousinup 8 months ago
@lousinup
No... McCain never showed his birth certificate at all. Obama co-sponsored a bill declaring McCain to be an NBC without any debate or investigation. Obama has shown his birth certificate. McCain never did. Nor did Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, etc. In fact, Obama is the first President since Eisenhower to show it.
Mystylplx 8 months ago
chrissie matthews is the cutest fag ever. he squats to take a leak. obama is a homosexual, illegal, muslim porch monkey and chrissie loves him and anderson cooper, david corn, shepard smith, huell howser, david geffen, larry sinclair, david gregory, and all the other homos. Go to: Her Name is Ms Ann. Rev. Manning will explain.
Petekiv 9 months ago
Wow, Clarence Page was totally right! They finally found a copy and released it, and these idiot birthers still won't believe it. Thanks for posting the great MSNBC video!
cmangy 10 months ago
The same thing happened when John McCain was seeking the nomination against George Bush. John McCain stepped up like an honorable man and supplied his birth certificate, because he had nothing to hide. Obama refuses to step up to the plate, why. What has Obama got to hide. All he has to do is honor the requests of American citizen and supply the long form certificate. How hard can it be. Why continue to divide the country on this issue? just getter done Obama.
MyTeigan 10 months ago
@MyTeigan its okay, we'll just send Trump up in November to say "You're fired"! Then Trump can reverse the executive order Obama used to seal all his records, and we can put the entire leftist media on a Deportation Flotilla to Cuba, for Treason!
djpublius 10 months ago
@djpublius
What executive order is that? EO 13489? Signed on Jan 21, 2009?
That EO pertains to *Presidential Records* or.. records created AFTER he became President. It does not include personal records.
Google: Presidential Records (44 U.S.C. Chapter 22) § 2201. Definitions
(2)(b)(ii) "...does not include personal records..."
While you're at it look up Presidential Records Act.
Educate yourself.
Do you actually READ any of this info? Or do you just parrot birther talking points?
Trump LOL
arrrogantlyignorant 10 months ago
@arrrogantlyignorant apparently it DOES, or there wouldn't be all this obfuscating.
djpublius 10 months ago
@MyTeigan
McCain never made his birth certificate public. Obama has had his online for more than 2 and half years.
Hawaii no longer issues long forms.
arrrogantlyignorant 10 months ago
@arrrogantlyignorant the COLB is NOT a birth certificate... for crying out loud this is getting tedious, do you smoke pot? Just wondering, because it seems you forget alot....
djpublius 10 months ago
@djpublius
From the Honolulu Starbulletin website:
"the certification form "contains all the information needed by all federal government agencies for transactions requiring a birth certificate."
She added that the U.S. Supreme Court has recognized the state's current certification of live birth "as an official birth certificate meeting all federal and other requirements."
(Janice Okubo - Hawaii Dept of Health Spokesperson)
arrrogantlyignorant 10 months ago
@arrrogantlyignorant there is only ONE situation where Natural Born status matters, and that is a rare issue. But when Hawaii issued COLBs to births registered but not necessarily born there; it is a question that needs answering.. That is all! It's not asking for his circumcision records, or his confessional tapes, or diary; its asking for a detail that is not answered by this COLB, but IS answerable since HI has the record with the Doctor's signature and the hospital name.
djpublius 10 months ago
@djpublius
Right and since we know he was born in Hawaii, we know he is a natural born citizen. Why would Hawaii have the original birth certificate, if he was born elsewhere?
"its asking for a detail that is not answered by this COLB,"
What detail is that?
arrrogantlyignorant 10 months ago
@arrrogantlyignorant the doctor's signature attesting to the live birth, and the hospital name. It's on the actual certificate. If his family registered his birth in Honolulu (since they were resident's and Hawaii issued COLBs like this until 1972), the state documents would settle whether or not he was registered in Honolulu, or actually Delivered there. It's on the Actual Birth Certificate, and its not unreasonable to ask for this form.
djpublius 10 months ago
@djpublius
Where are you getting this date (1972) from?
Who was George Bush's delivering doctor? Who was Clinton's doctor?
There is no Constitutional requirement that the President has to be born in a hospital.
Its unreasonable to ask for something that the State of Hawaii no longer issues, especially in light of the fact that he already provided document that is prima facie evidence that he was born when and where it says he was.
arrrogantlyignorant 10 months ago
@arrrogantlyignorant he didn't provide prima facie evidence unless he sent that form to settle the court cases, instead the Lawyers he sent argued against having to provide any documentation. I don't know who Bush & Clinton's doctors were, but if people had asked them for a birth certificate and they instead had posted a factcheck jpeg WITHOUT that information, it would be suspect. Not even that COLB has been submitted in any Official situation.
djpublius 10 months ago
@djpublius
"instead the Lawyers he sent argued against having to provide any documentation"
No they didnt. They filed motions to dismiss.
arrrogantlyignorant 10 months ago
I'm tired of hearing about this birther shit. I'm really tired of every Hardball show covering it.Hey Matthews?Know why this Birther issue continues? Because you don't shut the fuck up & leave it alone.You are the asshole that keeps perpetrating this! I couldn't give a shit where Obama is from.All I know is the bastard got us into Libya just like Dubyah.O's lost my vote in 2012.Since I equally hate Repubs I'm not even voting. Fuck all.David Corn! Save some money & buy an upper lip dumb ass.
rleary1 10 months ago
Comment removed
rleary1 10 months ago
Were did this come from in the first place?
58fenix 10 months ago
@bootyraider
Same one that delivered your mother....NOT THAT IT COUNTS!!! He could have been born in the back seat of a taxi and it wouldn't make any difference.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@bootyraider I love how they show the stamped signature on the back (of the registrar stamping the copy) and say 'see here's the signature...'. Cracks me up and depresses me at the same time. How could they be so stupid as to not know what we are talking about. A certified copy of the original document is what most states use. It contains the signature of the mother and doctor attesting to the live birth. Why would that be important?!?! LMAO
djpublius 10 months ago
@djpublius
Nope genius. A certified computer printout is what most states uses today. And what do you think they did before copy machines, genius?
But the real point is it doesn't matter what you think "most states uses." It doesn't even have to be what "most states uses." All it has to be is certified by the state of HI and that, my ignorant friend, is THAT.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@Mystylplx you do realize that computer printouts that states use today can also contain those signatures? Or maybe your state still uses a dot matrix or a electric typewriter?
If this COLB from factcheck is so sufficient, why isn't it sent to the Court cases seeking eligibility? If 'THAT' indeed would be 'THAT'? Maybe there is a reason this 'image' is used instead of providing the Birth Certificate?
Doctor's signature or it Didn't Happen!
djpublius 10 months ago
@photolitherland You do realize fox news is part of the 2 card monty? They are the same as CNN, MSNBC etc. and ALL of them repeat the lie that the COLB settles the issue. If the COLB could settle any of these issues, Obama would have sent it to the court cases, instead of paying lawyers to defend why he shouldn't have to provide it..... Doctor's signature or the birth didn't happen? Understand the reasons doctors & mother's sign the form in the first place?!
djpublius 10 months ago
@bootyraider
In English the words "certificate" and "certification" are what is known as "synonyms." Look it up genius.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@bootyraider
McCain never showed his birth certificate to the Senate or anywhere else. It was just a non-binding rubber stamp that McCain didn't even show up for.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@bootyraider
Yes, dimwit, now read the rest of the sentence which is only talking about those who "may be born beyond the sea." Are you actually dumb enough to claim you have to be "born beyond the sea" to be a natural born citizen?
And once again, the first Congress specifically REJECTED the notion that citizen parents are required for those born on the soil. The opposition debate was lead by the father of the Constitution--James Madison.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@Mystylplx we don't have compelling evidence he was born on US soil. Hawaii had a loop hole that makes the detail deficient COLB insufficient for establishing certainty of the birth. There is no hospital listed, nor a Doctor's signature.... not even the Mother's signature. At the time Hawaii gave COLBs to children registered, but whom may not have been born there. Look at their website if you don't believe me.
djpublius 10 months ago
@djpublius
Hawaii does not issue birth documents saying that you were born there, if you weren't born there. Thats pure birther myth. The certificate will state the country of origin. Can you cite an actual law that supports what you're claiming here?
arrrogantlyignorant 10 months ago
@arrrogantlyignorant who certified where he was born? The COLB tells us nothing. THe Birth Certificate would have the signature of his mother & the doctor, as well as the hospital; thus, it would settle EVERYTHING!
djpublius 10 months ago
@djpublius
The State Registrar and the Hawaii Dept of Health certify the documents. The COLB is printed from information contained in the database. As of 2001, all vital records at the Hawaii Dept of Health were converted to electronic format. The COLB tells us all we need to know. Constitutionally, all that matters is Time (age) and Place (citizenship) of birth. The COLB is a valid, legal, State certified birth certificate.
arrrogantlyignorant 10 months ago
@arrrogantlyignorant Details matter. The COLB is insufficient to validate Natural Born Status, because of Hawaiian law at the time of the birth, which allowed for the issuing of COLBs to parents who registered the birth of their child. The detailed form would reveal whether he indeed was born at the hospital where a doctor signed attesting to this fact, or if the birth was merely registered with the Honolulu office....
djpublius 10 months ago
@djpublius
We already know from Dr. Fukino's statment that Obama's original birth certificate was signed by a doctor.
Go: msnbc(dot)com
Search: Chiyome Fukino
The COLB says Obama was born in Honolulu = natural born citizen.
What qualifies you to declare the COLB as "insufficient to validate natural born status"?
What law?
arrrogantlyignorant 10 months ago
@arrrogantlyignorant of course the Original Birth Certificate was signed by a Doctor!!! Let's see THAT form, because THAT form verifies if the birth actually happened in Hawaii, or was merely registered in Hawaii. How hard is this? Oh wait, I just noticed your sign on name... arrogantly ignorant... have you been toying with me?
djpublius 10 months ago
@djpublius
I'm not toying with anyone. What makes you think that? The thing that many people don't realize is that legally, the COLB carries the same weight as the long form does. In the eyes of the law, Obama is legit because he provided a valid, legal, State certified birth certificate. The exact one that was issued when he requested a certified copy of his birth certificate. The exact same form that ANYone and EVERYone is issued when they order certified copies of their bc from Hawaii.
arrrogantlyignorant 10 months ago
@arrrogantlyignorant but he didn't actually submit that COLB to anyone, no one required it! Factcheck posted a jpeg, and Gibbs said "there it is", but that is completely different from handing that to an official or even to a News outlet, where they would be held liable for its accuracy.
djpublius 10 months ago
@djpublius
Factcheck photographed it to prove that it was an actual paper document and not just a digital image.
arrrogantlyignorant 10 months ago
@arrrogantlyignorant its not sufficient to say "my friends took a picture of my document and posted it online, so that should be sufficient for you....", if you or I need to submit a birth certificate for some reason, we wont be able to use the same technic....
djpublius 10 months ago
@djpublius
Correct, but I would definitely be able to use the same document that Obama has.
Lets see... we could get Obama to lobby Congress to allocate several billion dollars (not counting postage and envelopes) so he could order 300 million certified copies and have it sent to the bulk of American citizens.
Not very feasible... so he did the next best thing... released it to the public via the internet.
arrrogantlyignorant 10 months ago
@arrrogantlyignorant seriously, I don't personally need to handle it or even see it, if someone official (judge, Congress etc) would validate something. The Hawaiian official could have done so, but carefully reading her speech, she does lawyer speak "I....have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures".
So she has it? But what does it say?!?! lmao
djpublius 10 months ago
@djpublius
The reason for the so called "lawyer speak" is because she is bound by Hawaii Revised Statute §338-18.
She was not allowed to say what it said.
Btw, Dr Fukino no longer works in that capacity. She was appointed by then Republican Gov Linda Lingle. Neal Abercrombie will appoint his own Director of Health.
arrrogantlyignorant 10 months ago
@arrrogantlyignorant okay, but can you at least see the argument here? There are psychos clouding this issue with lameness, the real point is simple and legitimate. Was Obama's birth registered in Hawaii, or was he definitively delivered in Hawaii, because the COLB is not conclusive. Maybe he was born in a hippy compound on the island, but with no witnesses and it would extend the 'controversy'? But at least it would be credible, I'd believe that scenario over a Kenya birth.....
djpublius 10 months ago
@djpublius
Honestly, I think that people get far to caught up in unrealistic conspiracies. ( not saying you are)
The main reason I feel it IS conclusive is because I have the exact same document (COLB) from Hawaii.
I cannot get my long form because they don't issue them anymore. I do remember seeing it 30+ years ago but with both parents gone and having moved several times... no idea where it went.
My COLB has never been rejected nor have I ever had to provide any additional info. It is my BC.
arrrogantlyignorant 10 months ago
@arrrogantlyignorant not from Hawaii for a birth in the 60s, at which time one could obtain a COLB while not having a verified Hawaiian birth. If the COLB settled any of these questions, Obama would have sent it to the Court cases, rather than sending lawyers.
djpublius 10 months ago
@djpublius
"at which time one could obtain a COLB while not having a verified Hawaiian birth"
Please cite an actual law that supports your assertion here. What you are claiming is pure birther myth.
Obviously, you havent actually read the cases. None of them were only for the birth certificate. In most of them, Obama was not the only defendant. In many, he wasn't even named. The cases were dismissed. He was never ordered to show it.
arrrogantlyignorant 10 months ago
@arrrogantlyignorant I KNOW he wasn't ordered to show it, the judges ruled no one had standing to ask him to show it. That's the point! How can you say the courts ruled on it, when they refused to actually validate ANYTHING!?! Don't be a Useful Idiot
djpublius 10 months ago
@djpublius
"judges ruled no one had standing to ask him to show it"
Thats simply disingenuous. They dismissed some of the CASES for lack of standing, not lack of standing to ask to show it. You're bending the truth. Again.. none of the cases were only for the birth certificate. In most, Obama was not the only defendant and in many he wasn't even named.
Resorting to name calling only diminishes your credibility as well as the validity of your argument.
arrrogantlyignorant 10 months ago
@djpublius
HI has no such loophole, and even if they did read Article IV section I of the United States Constitution to further your education. I.e. even if it were true (it's not) HI had some such "loophole" it still wouldn't matter. The U.S. Constitution says we must accept it.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@Mystylplx don't be such an obamabot. You need to separate yourself from your fanboy adulation that keeps you from accurately viewing issues. It mattered, and if it didn't, he wouldn't have released the more thorough form the people have been asking for. If you want to continue this discussion, find the mediamatters trolls who are fanning the flames by putting out the idea that even this form is fake. As for me, and most accused as 'birthers' by the leftist, this issue is resolved.
djpublius 10 months ago
@djpublius
You need to separate yourself from the nutball birthers who are polluting your viewpoint. None of what you say is actually accurate and all of it comes from birthers--who you apparently at, least partly, believe. There's no difference in the legal weight of the "long form" or the "short form" and HI won't give "short forms" since 2001. It's really that simple--He's the first President since Eisenhower to release his birth certificate and the nuts are still screaming where's the BC!?
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@Mystylplx there is only ONE situation where Natural Born Status applies, and out of a population of 235 million, it is only applicable to 1 person every 4 years. Verification of citizenship is one thing, verifying NBS is another. Anyway, its resolved, man. We're cool...
djpublius 10 months ago
@djpublius
Obama is the first President since Eisenhower to show his birth certificate. If it takes a birth certificate to prove NBC then Obama is the FIRST one since Eisenhower to do so.
And yeah, we're cool:)
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@djpublius
Natural born citizen = citizen at birth
Naturalized citizen = made a citizen later
Those are the two kinds of citizenship in the U.S. of A.
Mystylplx 5 months ago
@bootyraider
"Long form" IS a photocopy. They haven't given either one since 2001, along with a lot of other states.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
I don't believe he was born in Kenya, but shit, there is NOTHING on this guy, so yea, I'd like to see this birth certificate. As far as putting the ad in the paper, jeeze, maybe the grandparents wanted this new baby to be an American because being an American is the best thing that can happen to a baby. Jeez, just put this down and show us your birth certificate!
BuffMBA 10 months ago
Doctor's signature or it didn't happen!
djpublius 10 months ago
@bootyraider
Right you are. A naturalized citizen is one who is made a citizen later in life--those the suffix "ized."
A natural born citizen is one who is a citizen from the moment of birth--thus the word "born."
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@bootyraider
Nope. John Kerry's (and Al Gores) qualification letters were identical to Obama's.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
go on dogpile images, and type in obama birth certificate. there go all hopes and dreams of every birther. now u all know he was born here and 1. u think its fak, well u keep complaining about ho he wont produce it and when he does u call it fake. wat could we possibly do to get u to believe he was born here. get jesus to come down and tell u.
dkguydkguy 10 months ago
Have Govoner Abercrombie and Chris ask him how his investigation of tracking down Mr.Obama's birth certificate.
ikuyasu 10 months ago
Crazy town? Chris Matthews is a JOKE of a reporter. He's been on Obama's team from the beginning. The shifty spineless rat shifted his views just to be an establishment-supporting reporter.
wolfmanjacksaid 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Obama was delivered by Dr. Rodney T. West on August 4, 1961 at Kapi'olani Medical Center in Honolulu Hawaii
hawaii. gov/health/vital-records/obama.html
snopes. com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp
factcheck. org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
the.honoluluadvertiser. com/article/2008/Dec/22/ln/hawaii812220320.html
obamaconspiracy. org/2009/01/more-testimony-obama-was-born-in-k
nativeborncitizen.wordpress. com/2010/04/25/educating-the-confused-rodney-t-west-stanley-had-a-baby
is. gd/9ciqpV
halcyon0830 10 months ago
@bootyraider
Oh yeah, and he HAS released his records. It's almost funny--he's the first President since Eisenhower to release his birth certificate, yet all the birfers keep screaming "where's the birth certificate?"
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@bootyraider
Uh, you meant 1790, not 1890, and you apparently missed the part that says "that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States."
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@bootyraider
Funny how his fathers citizenship is well known but not one Constitutional scholar thinks that makes him ineligible. He was sworn in by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, who obviously didn't think he was ineligible...
Plus the founding fathers REJECTED that notion in 1789 when a guy named David Ramsay made it to the first Congress. He argued that citizen parents were required to be NBC and they REJECTED it 36-1.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@Mystylplx you didn't notice the details? All those lawyers around, and interestingly enough, he didn't say the actual oath correctly, remember that? Then latter, supposedly went back and did it in the office, without the Bible... .I know it gets ridiculous; but comeon, something shifty is going on; or they are just trying to entertain us all with the intrigue...
djpublius 10 months ago
@bootyraider
Doesn't matter if there was a doctors sig. or not. Completely irrelevant. What do you think they did before there were copy machines?
He's the first President since Eisenhower to release his birth certificate. The only "anomaly" is that birthers keep screaming "where's the birth certificate?" to the only President to have actually already released it in decades.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@bootyraider
No, the newspaper announcement was placed by the DOH.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@bootyraider
Nope. McCain never showed his birth certificate to anyone except one reporter. The Senate never did any investigating--it was just a rubber stamp, passed with no debate, and McCain himself never even showed up for the vote.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@bootyraider
I guess I should have said HI hasn't given photocopies since 2001. The Nordyke twins got there's back in the 60's when they were still giving photocopies.
And you should look up David Ramsays story. He made the argument to the first Congress (all founding fathers) that citizen parents were required to be NBC. The opposition debate was lead by none other than James Madison, the father of the Constitution. They rejected Ramsays argument 36-1.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
James Madison, in response to Ramsays argument that citizen parents are required to be NBC, said--
"It is an established maxim, that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth, however, derives its force sometimes from place, and sometimes from parentage; but, in general place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States."
And even Ramsay used the phrase correctly to mean "citizen at birth." Even he wasn't trying to redefine it into some 3rd kind of citizenship.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
Grandma placed a notice in the Honolulu newspaper so little Barack could go to school.
ancestralyuba 10 months ago
@ancestralyuba
Newspaper announcements don't let you go to school.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@Mystylplx Newspaper announcements won't let you do anything.
I personally know someone whose child was born at home, in Honolulu in 1965. She placed an announcement of the birth in the local newspaper, and on that basis, was able to enroll the child in kindergarten.
You think all those Mexican kids in US schools show birth certificates? Where have you been?
ancestralyuba 10 months ago
@ancestralyuba
Baloney. The announcements were placed by the HI DOH. All birth announcements were placed by the DOH in HI back then. Your friend is telling you a bit of a fairytale if she told you SHE placed the announcements.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@Mystylplx Hawaiians could register births after the fact, and when submitted to get the COLB, it would have been listed in the paper; but it doesn't prove he was born in Hawaii, until we see the Doctor's signature attesting to the birth, along with the Hospital name & Mother's sig....
djpublius 10 months ago
@ancestralyuba
When did your friend tell you about the placement of this newspaper birth announcement? Did they show it to you? Can you provide the date, name of the newspaper, and child’s first name?
You can place almost any announcement you like in a newspaper but if you personally place a birth or death announcement it will not appear under the column with the heading Vital Statistics. Newspapers only accept those from government agencies.
bjphysics 10 months ago
1) Many people born in the days of typewriters and carbon copies have a carbon copy of the original (page 1 only) of their birth FACTS document and it is labeled BIRTH CERTIFICATE. But is in NOT a birth certificate, it’s the carbon copy of (page 1) the document sent to the cognizant state authority (e.g., Health Department) for validation.
bjphysics 10 months ago
2) The reason page 2 is, typically, not seen by most people is it contains dual medical privacy information: mommy’s prior number of pregnancies, live births, birth defects, were forceps used, caesarian section, etc.
bjphysics 10 months ago
3) After this authority has validated the information, an “accepted” (the term “filed” is also used) date is attached to this document and kept in archive. In the past when you wanted an OFFICIAL birth certificate, a copy of this “accepted” document was placed on background paper, with a registrar’s signature, date of issuance, and raised seal.
bjphysics 10 months ago
4) After the advent of photocopiers the background paper was often laminated with a very thin page containing, in large bold letters “V O I D” which would only appear in bright light or a photocopy. This is the type of birth certificate Donald Trump has produced. Modern, “long forms” (no longer issued by many states) have all the same information but the photocopy (actually photo-scan) is placed on watermark security paper.
bjphysics 10 months ago
5) As of April 1, 2011 birth validation documents that are NOT printed on security paper, will not be accepted by the federal government. Obama’s COLD is printed on security paper but Trumps is not, not to worry, all Donald has to do is go get a new one from New York. It will probably be a COLB and look very nearly like Obama’s.
bjphysics 10 months ago
6) Another reason many people think the hospital souvenir carbon copy IS their birth certificate is because up until false identity, large scale illegal immigration, etc. became an issue. Most authorities would accept the hospital souvenir carbon copy because they trusted most people. If anybody has a hospital souvenir carbon copy and they want to find out how worthless it now is, all they need do is try to get a passport with it – it will not be accepted.
bjphysics 10 months ago
7) The “short form” which Hawaii calls a COLB is issued by most states and is accepted for identification by all states and the federal government with one major exception: border states such as California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas (not sure about Nevada and Utah), etc. You need a “long form” from these states because of known and established birth fraud. The feds want to do some double checking if you were birthed by a midwife or not born in a medical facility if you are from these states.
bjphysics 10 months ago
@bjphysics nice info, so are you saying the border states use long forms to cut down on known and established birth fraud?! That has absolutely nothing to do with this issue.... lol
djpublius 10 months ago
@bjphysics: Correction
7) The “short form” which Hawaii calls a COLB is issued by most states and is accepted for identification by all states and the federal government with two major exceptions: the border states of California and Texas. You need a “long form” from these states because of known and established birth fraud. The feds want to do some double checking if you were birthed by a midwife or not born in a medical facility if you are from these states
bjphysics 10 months ago
This clip is too long.
.
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I CANNOT TOLERATE MORE THAN 30 SECONDS OF THIS BUFFOON MATTHEWS.
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Clip it to a soundbite and repost.
classic7890 10 months ago
@bootyraider
Yes, but HI doesn't give certified photocopies of the so-called "long form."
BTW, "long form" and "short form" are not legal terms and there's no real agreement on what they mean. SC, for instance, also won't give photocopies (like HI) but they give a computer printout (like Obama's) which they call a "long form." What they call a "short form" is the wallet sized card. Basically these are meaningless terms. (Short form and long form)
Mystylplx 10 months ago
I can understand why "birthers" want to verify,,,,they do have a good point. It is not too much to ask for, and Obama's resistance only causes more distrust. Obama has only shown a short-form and needs to comply with the law.
CaliforniaBoy1000 11 months ago
@CaliforniaBoy1000
He's the first President since Eisenhower to show his birth certificate. There's no law requiring him to show it, but he has anyway. And there's no legal difference between a "short form" and a "long form." They are both certified birth certificates. HI doesn't give photocopies any more. Neither do MO, SC, or PA. He's shown the only kind of birth certificate HI gives.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
Leave it to Chris to throw out the Race card. What a loser, Barry Satoro show us and we will let you off. Quit Hiding and let us see it.
SeanScythe 11 months ago
@SeanScythe
You can understand how people might think it's about race. He's the only President to have shown his birth certificate, yet birfoons keep trying to hold him to a double standard. Why the double standard if it's not about race?
Mystylplx 11 months ago
@Mystylplx Uh no Bush had to show his and so did McCain when he just ran for president. The only thing Barry has shown is a printed paper, nothing original. I have my original and copies. My parents have the same and they are older then him so there is no excuse as to why he doesn't have the original.
SeanScythe 11 months ago
@SeanScythe
Wrong. Bush never showed his nor McCain. Nor do you have your original. No one does. The original goes to the state and the state gives certified copies. You might have a photocopy of the original, but not the original.
Mystylplx 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Mystylplx
from Huffingtonpost "Reagan and Bush showed their birth certificates. Not to mention you have to prove that you are a US citizen, and you do that by showing that you were born in the us.” And I know that McCain was required to show something about his birth when he ran but I never followed up on it since it never because an issue.
SeanScythe 11 months ago
Note:
There's a BC purporting to be McCain's on the internet, but it didn't come from McCain. It came from the court filings of a McCain birther who was suing McCain. It says McCain was born in a civilian hospital outside the canal zone. McCain says he was born in a base hospital inside the canal zone. Anyway, it's fake. McCain never released his birth certificate. Neither did Bush, Clinton, Bush Sr., Reagan, etc. Obama's the only one who has. So I'll ask again--why the double standard?
Mystylplx 11 months ago
Comment removed
SeanScythe 11 months ago
@SeanScythe
Uh, no. Neither Bush nor McCain ever showed a birth certificate.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@Mystylplx You are either ill informed or a liar. Eisenhower was required to show his. George Romney was refused a place on the ballot in 1969 because he was not a NBC. Mc Cain was required by Congress to produce his long form BC, Senate Resolution 511 was subsecuently passed declaring his NBC status and Constitutional eligibily. Interestingly, it wa signed by Obama. Obama is a dual citizen at best, ergo he is not a NBC. FAIL.
HereinLasVegas 10 months ago
@HereinLasVegas
No, Eisenhower was not "required" to show his. He did show it, just as Obama has. Nor did McCain ever produce any birth certificate at all. The Senate passed a non-binding resolution (S.Res.511) that was co-sponsored by Obama and Hillary Clinton, that was simply a rubber stamp. There was no investigation, no debate, it simply stated McCain is NBC.
And Romney was born in Mexico. Obama was born in HI. And he lost the nomination to Nixon.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@Mystylplx Obama presented a fraudulent document as a BC....'cmon, fathers race is "African" LOL.
HereinLasVegas 10 months ago
@HereinLasVegas
You can pretend it's "fraudulent" all you want, yet that's another thing ONLY birthers believe. Not one single forensics expert agrees--in fact, ultra conservative World Net Daily hired experts to look at the certificate and they (much to WND's chagrin) found it to be authentic.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@Mystylplx Another out right lie. Hawaii doesn't even have a record of it, they won't confirm it. Debating is one thing, dealing with a liar is another. How much you get paid for this?
HereinLasVegas 10 months ago
@HereinLasVegas
Again, you can believe whatever you like, but the HI DOH has confirmed multiple times they have it. Linda Lingle, who was the Republican Gov., also said she's seen it.
And I don't get paid, but if you know anyone who would be willing to pay me please send me the info--I could use the money!
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@Mystylplx She never said she saw it, she said a subordinate revied it. Then Abecrombie comes along and says it isn't there. No one in Hawaii has ever vouche for the BC that was presented on the internet. Nice try.
HereinLasVegas 10 months ago
@HereinLasVegas
Abecrombie never said it isn't there. This is the problem when you get all your info from nutball blogs--MOST of what they say are lies and that's an example. Basically that bit if disinfo came from a guy named Mike Evans, who later retracted it. Abecrombie himself has said it IS there.
And whether Lingle herself looked at it or sent a subordinate, she said it was "on the up-and-up." And referred to him as being born in HI.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@Mystylplx The hell he didn't. STOP LYING. Obama may have been born in Hawaii, he's still not eligible. You really think the Founding Fathers would have allowed the son of a foreigner to beome POTUS? That would be delusional. Good bye.
HereinLasVegas 10 months ago
@HereinLasVegas
It's easy enough to check. Abecrombie NEVER said that. Mike Evans claimed he said it then retracted it.
And the framers said the President had to be a "Natural born U.S. citizen." They never said anything about the citizenship of the parents which, quite naturally, they didn't care about. It's the citizenship of the President that counts--not the Presidents parents.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@Mystylplx LOL, so African is a race eh? You should google Ramsay and NBC, then look up the authors of the 14th and see what they had to say. You are really quite the deceiver.
HereinLasVegas 10 months ago
@HereinLasVegas
You are quite the idiot. The father filled out the form and listed his race as "african." So that's what it says.
And Ramsay made his argument to the first Congress (many of them framers) who REJECTED his argument. The opposition debate was lead by none other than the Father of the Constitution himself, James Madison.
And I don't need to see what the authors of the 14th said--just what the 14th itself says.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@Mystylplx LOL...I'm an idiot. There is and has never been a race designation as "African". I suppose Mexican or American is a race too? In 1961, the designation would have been Negro or Negroid or even possibly Black. Yes you do need to see what the authors of the 14th said, it was their intent "idiot" Madison wanted foreigners to be able to spawn future Presidents? YOu're insane. Yeah, Putin or Mao could father the future POTUS, though I think you would stand for that too. FO commie lover
HereinLasVegas 10 months ago
@HereinLasVegas
Yep, you are an idiot. His father wrote "african" so that's what went on the form.
And yep, Madison and the first Congress rejected Ramsays arguments 36-1. That pretty well says it all. Ramsay argued that citizen parents were required to be NBC and those who actually wrote the Constitution REJECTED his argument.
And "intent" has nothing to do with anything. It's what the 14th actually says that counts.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@Mystylplx Nope, Fathers do not get to determing nomenclature on an officilal Government document. Sorry, you desperation is showing. You respond immediatly to all posts, you don't have a job? Oops, this is it, forgot. Intent has everything to do with Amendments, it's why they are written for the tie. They're not written to support your perversions of their meanings to match your political, marxist leanings. BTW, you comrad Hillary started this, is she a right wing 'birther'?
HereinLasVegas 10 months ago
@HereinLasVegas
He filled out a form. They put on the certificate what he wrote on the form. That's how it's done pretty much everywhere.
And no, it's what the amendment actually says that counts, not what some blowhard politicians said in speeches on the House Floor.
Hillary didn't start birtherism, but some of her supporters did. And yes, they are nutjobs, just like you.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@Mystylplx Good thing he didn't list nigger as the race...go away obot troll.
HereinLasVegas 10 months ago
@HereinLasVegas
If he had listed "Martian" as his race they probably would have put THAT.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@Mystylplx It is truly amazing to see the depths you obots will sink to to defend this marxist, commie anti American pos FAILURE. If the tables were turned and it was a R in office, you would be saying the EXACT opposite. Go get your chen form axelgrease fool.
HereinLasVegas 10 months ago
@HereinLasVegas
Funny how we never HAVE done so... I was no fan of Bush's, but I never made up a bunch of lies about he was ineligible to be President. I never tried to rewrite the Constitution or made up ridiculous stories about how Bush was reeeaaaallllyyyy born in Yugoslavia.
Nope, you birfoons have a monopoly on that sort of absurdity.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@Mystylplx And you're not paid to do this...lol you have been here all day long on call. FUCK YOU (Rahm, Valerie, Samatha, Axelgrease, Soros) paid troll!
HereinLasVegas 10 months ago
@Mystylplx Again, you are a fucking liar.....Hillary started this! FUCKING POS LIAR~~~~~~~~
HereinLasVegas 10 months ago
@HereinLasVegas
Wrong again! A few Hillary supporters (not Hillary herself) started this--and yes they were birthers. Most conservatives are NOT birthers. Birthers that were Hillary supporters are just as nutty as any other birthers.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@HereinLasVegas
James Madison (the Father of the U.S. Constitution), speaking in response to David Ramsay's argument that citizen parents are required to be NBC, said--
"It is an established maxim, that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth, however, derives its force sometimes from place, and sometimes from parentage; but, in general place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States."
The first Congress REJECTED Ramsays argument 36-1.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@Mystylplx Fucking LIAR, the first congress defined NBC" Permit me to hint whether it would not be wise and reasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government, and to declare expressly that the Command in Chief of the American army shall not be given to nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen." Fuck off lying troll obot commie supporting POS!
HereinLasVegas 10 months ago
@HereinLasVegas
Dimwit, that's a letter from John Jay to Washington NOT the first Congress. And Jay meant "citizen at birth" which is what the phrase actually means. Even Ramsay meant the same thing by it. In fact Jay underlined the word "born" to make his meaning even MORE clear.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
The father of the Constitution, James Madison, said (in response to Ramsay)--
"It is an established maxim, that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth, however, derives its force sometimes from place, and sometimes from parentage; but, in general place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States."
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@HereinLasVegas
Oh, and see SCOTUS decision in Perkins V Elg which specifically states a person can be a dual citizen AND a natural born U.S. citizen. The two are not mutually exclusive. Only birthers think they are. Not one single legal scholar agrees.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@Mystylplx Thats BS and you know it.
HereinLasVegas 10 months ago
@HereinLasVegas
No, sorry. The only BS here is coming from birthers who are trying to rewrite history and the Constitution. See Perkins Vs. Elg, where SCOTUS declared Marie Elg (a dual citizen) to be a natural born U.S. citizen. No one but birthers think dual citizenship disqualifies him.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@Mystylplx That is an outright lie. SCOTUS declared she was a CITIZEN, no where is NBC even mentioned. STOP LYING!
HereinLasVegas 10 months ago
@HereinLasVegas
Wrong again. The court upheld the decision in (Aetna Life Ins. Co. v. Haworth, 300 U. S. 227) which called her a "natural born citizen." Even if they didn't specifically use those words they upheld the decision of the lower court which did. They also referred to her as a "citizen at birth" which is the same thing as NBC.
Mystylplx 10 months ago
@Mystylplx YOU ARE A FUCKING LIAR< PAID BY AXELGREASE OBOT SHILL
HereinLasVegas 10 months ago
you birthers are nearly a laugh
laserbeamninja 11 months ago
Nice wordy shell game you MSLSD empty suits full of crap. 3 Leftist pigs pretending to debate an issue that they all agree upon while they enjoy full throttle thrills up their legs.....
ConcernedONETOO 1 year ago 4
Yes, we've got something, Obama does not.
NoGuff 1 year ago
Obama obviously is hiding SOMETHING.
Otherwise, he would have shown his birth-certificate long ago.
He MUST show his birth certificate before he gets on another election-ballot.
CaliforniaBoy1000 1 year ago
@CaliforniaBoy1000
He DID show his birth certificate long ago. Interestingly, he's the only President in U.S. history to have done so, but you birfoons just can't deal with reality.
Mystylplx 11 months ago
Anyone who does not realize BHO is an ineligible usurper is a fricking kool-aid drinking IDIOT! It's THAT simple!
jdubya0257 1 year ago
@jdubya0257
Jonestown had Kool-Aid
America has Tea
bjphysics 10 months ago
@bjphysics The Obots have their kool-aid too. Instead of deadly poison, it's an addictive hallucinagenic. Many users have rehabbed, however, and that's a good thing.
jdubya0257 8 months ago
If Obama's original 1961 birth certificate does not exist then where did the certificate of live birth come from. Ther electronic document that Obama's campaign team produced was not the official document issued in 1961. Obama's COLB served as an abstract of the original document. If the original document never existed, then the COLB is a fake and Obama is a fraud. The public has never seen the original certificate and Obama refuses to produce it. Occam's Razor is hard to ignore.
RundesViereck 1 year ago
@RundesViereck Yes it is. The man ran a campaign for President from early 2007 until the election in 2008 and has sat in the White House since Jan. of '09 and in all this time not one opponent or journalist has found any evidence that he was born anywhere but Honolulu. Occam's Razor seems to show that he was born in Hawaii. Glad that you agree.
tgear77 1 year ago
@tgear77 Occam's razor + refusal to release the original 1961 birth certificate says I'm right. The COLB only had value as an abstract of the original document - which the public has never verified and which we were told existed. If the original document does not exist, then the COLB is worthless and the White House and Hawaii officials are liars. The fact that "birther" and "racist" are the common fallacious responses to these legitimate unanswered questions is further cause for concern.
RundesViereck 1 year ago
@RundesViereck Occam's razor + the fact that no one has found anything to prove he was not born in Hawaii despite having Millions of dollars to spend and untold man-hours to enlist says that I am right. McCain's campaign, Hilary's campaign, Biden's and Edwards' campaigns, the RNC, the GOP, the FEC, every reporter covering the campaign never found one smattering of proof that he was not legitimate. Yet you Birthers choose to ignore the reality.
tgear77 1 year ago
@tgear77 The skeptics have never maintained that we have absolute proof that he was not born in Hawaii. We simply claim that there is enough cumulative evidence to suggest that there was never an original 1961 birth certificate. Instead of produce the original document and end the debate from day one, Obama chose to release a COLB that is worthless if the original 1961 document doesn't exist. Instead of respond intelligently to our concerns, we have been called "racists" and "birthers".
RundesViereck 1 year ago
@RundesViereck First off, by releasing the COLB on "day One", Obama went further than any other previous Presidential candidate. Second, there is no "cumulative evidence", let alone enough. What you Birthers have is nothing but assumptions and lies. No competent attorney would go forward with such a case because it boils down to "We don't like what he has already shown us". There is no reason to respond to you Birthers because you have presented nothing worth responding to.
tgear77 1 year ago
@tgear77 Which "assumptions" and "lies"? Explain yourself, tsmear77. Also, as you know, the COLB is worthless without an original birth certificate - which Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie now says may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health. The Hawaii Department of Health has refused to authenticate the COLB posted on the Internet by Snopes and FactCheck. But I thought this was a settled issue, tsmear77?
RundesViereck 1 year ago
@RundesViereck Well, look who is so clever, trying to turn my user name into an insult. Typical Birther nonsense. Which assumption or lie would you like to start with? How about the one about Hawaii DOH refusing to authenticate the COLB. Big time lie. WND, that oh so wonderful website of lies, after printing smear after smear, sent an email to the DOH asking them to confirm the COLB and the DOH refused to answer them. Why? Because they don't play Birther games. Learn the facts.
tgear77 1 year ago
@tgear77 "Because they don't play birther games"? Is that just your slant, tsmear77? Or is that what the DOH wrote? LOL. Fact: the Hawaii DOH has refused to authenticate the COLB. Fact: the COLB is worthless without an original 1961 birth certificate. Fact: even Chris Matthews now admits at 2:07 that "he (Obama) doesn't have the other kind (original birth certificate). Fact: this issue is not resolved just because a liberal vermin says it is. Fact: tsmear77 is a schmuck.
RundesViereck 1 year ago
@RundesViereck Lie #1: that the DOH has refused to authenticate it. Wrong. But go ahead and act like WND is a legitimate source. Lie#2: the existence of the COLB verifies the existence of the long form. In fact, ask yourself this, moron, if this is such a huge conspiracy, then why wouldn't they have forged the long form BC? And why would they have produced a forged COLB with questionable material such as the father's race? Lie #3: Liberal vermin. The only vermin here are the Reptards, like you.
tgear77 1 year ago
@tgear77 The question is not whether or not WND is a legitimate source; of course you think they are illegitimate - you are a liberal vermin so that's to be expected on your part. No, the more important question would be: what is a "legitimate" source for tsmear77? You still have failed to disprove my original claim that the COLB has not been authenticated by the DOH. In fact, all the DOH has done is claim to have seen the "vital records" which the Govenor now says do not exist. Try Again.
RundesViereck 1 year ago
@RundesViereck "Liberal vermin", how mature. It's nice to know I am arguing with a 7 year old. There is no question as to whether or not WND is legitimate: they are not. That is a fact. The original claim is that the DOH refused to authenticate the COLB. That is a lie. You are asking me to prove something that never happened. Only a Birther moron would try to pull that trick. And no, Abercrombie did not say that they do not exist. But don't let the facts interfere with your lunacy.
tgear77 1 year ago
@tgear77 You say that WND is "not legitimate". That is your opinion. That is not yet an established fact. The fact that your infantile (perhaps the "7 year old" comment was a freudian slip on your part in this context) mind cannot make that distincition is entertaining. How do you know that the DOH refusing to authenticate the COLB "never happened"? Oh, I know. Because WND reported it. And WND is not to be trusted? A liberal vermin told me so, and I trust the schmuck. LOL. Try Again.
RundesViereck 1 year ago
@RundesViereck Joseph Farah has a long history of pushing Right Wing propaganda. WND has been called out time and time again for printing falsehoods and making up articles. They make Fox News actually look Fair and Balanced. WND is no more a legitimate news source due to its Right Wing bias than The Daily Kos is due to its left wing bias. Only an idiot like yourself would try and pass off WND as any kind of bastion of truth. So keep on proving your ignorance. You're doing a wonderful job.
tgear77 1 year ago
@tgear77 Again, what do you consider a "legitimate" source of news? I am earnestly awaiting your response to that key question. But you will probably answer that question by attacking WND rather than DEMONSTRATING how WND is "prinitng falsehoods and making up articles". I am more concerned with information than with who is reporting it. The information can always be evaluated indepedently of the person or outlet reporting it. You have failed to demonstrate WND's reporting to be false.
RundesViereck 1 year ago
@RundesViereck In 2000, WND published over 20 articles claiming that they helped Al Gore lose Tennessee in the election. It made claims attributed to a Gore staffer. He sued for libel and won in 2007. WND and Farah had to admit that it lied in those articles. In 2004, WND was proven to have lied in an article about John Kerry having an affair. Also that year, Farah himself wrote that Teresa Heinz, Kerry's wife, gave money to 'radical causes'. The money went to environmental projects....
tgear77 1 year ago
@tgear77 (cont) Farah wrote articles bashing conservative David Bossie, calling him "extremely incompetent" and saying that he "deliberately sabotaged investigations". Then Farah went and hired Bossie to write for WND. That is just the tip of the iceberg. See, this is called backing up a claim. Which is more than can be said for your weakass posts. I said that WND was not legitimate and I have proven it. They publish lies and distortions. So go be a pinhead and believe what they print.