its a demo team but really in real life on the flight line they have about 2 people he starts the engine and 1 person watches for things and the other taxi him out of the ramp
Also u need to remember one thing. This is Navy. Where do Navy planes often fly? The carrier. That deck is a tight place with lots of ppl around and noisy as heck. U need the safety of those hand signals. Yeah this vid is on land but u do the same so u don't mess up on board.
No balks what they were doing is not laughable. What is was I was doing some work with the A.F. They had all the guys do the checks, started up the 15, taxied forward about 20 ft. The
Although still a slightly odd practise compared to FAF standards... the sound there is pretty f-ing loud, and plugs aren't as effective as full cups. Other thing that I noticed is that nobody's checking the VENs (Variable Exhaust Nozzles) that open up as the engine revs up and starts providing hydraulic pressure to the systems - they check the compressor 1st stage instead? In FAF there's always 1 or 2 guys checking the VENs after the pilot rolls his finger for a permission to start.
I remember seeing the Demo at Millington TN (a former navy base). Man you talk about power! I was standing near a C-5 when it took off (about 3,000 ft from the runway) and you could could fell the rumble.
Nice jet. But still miss the F-14 flying at the airshow
Well, the APU is a small jet engine itself, rotating at around 60000 rpm (yes, 1000 rounds per second), started with stored hydraulic pressure and used to rev up the engines to around 63% (F404) via the gearbox before applying a bit of throttle to engage the fuel pumps.
Regarding the comment on earplugs... I usually use double protection (plugs and cups). The things are LOUD. Especially if the engine is started in an open hangar... the vibration makes your organs move.
A correction (my bad) - the APU generates air pressure to the Air Turbine Starters, which are simply turbines connected to the gearbox. So APU isn't directly connected to the gearbox.
Typicaly in the Navy, and i know because i was Naval Aviation during startup there is one man per shop, a lot of times anyway, you will have the Plane captain, the guy doing the signals with the pilot, you will have an AT, and airframer, and final-checkers who do the final walk around
Simply because the staff on the field are mechanics who check and prepare the plane for the next flight... sure it's possible to start the plane by a single pilot without any mechanics, but the staff are there for emergency, for communication with pilot during startup etc... lots of reasons... (similarily here in Finland, not only in U.S.)
I'm just talking about having one tech on the ground that does everything. Here in Canuckistan we have have 1 guy that is qualified to strap in the pilot, do the last chance check, fire up the engines and do a final walk around before giving the pilot the high five. On top of that, he is qualified on the engine and airframe systems. I just find it funny/strange/different, to see 6-7 ground crew per jet for a simple launch.
On a normal basis, you only need one Crewchief (or specialist that is cut trained to do Crewchief duties) to meet/greet the pilot, strap him in, and to get him going and out, and one other person to man the fire bottle. But this is a demo team, they you 3 people. 1 manning the left and right side, and Cheif in the front (the A man) to signal all ops checks since on demos, they do not use wire communication with the pilot. But this not normal, doing the mission procedures. This is only for demos.
How many guy do you have around a single plane in the US? I mean the whole thing - morning checks, pre-flight preparations, getting the thing airborne, and between flight checks. "Working" as an assistant mechanic ("apumekaanikko") in the Finnish Air Force, as a conscript - actually inspected a Hornet lower fuselage this morning - and since it's the same job and planes, would be interested to know how you do the things over there. Heard that the 4 A/B resets are because of separate repair teams?
@belka85 More eyes. Did you ever see the story about the green crewman who was sucked into the engine of an A-6? The pilot shut down the engine after another crewman gave him a shutdown signal. Sure it was a freak accident, but more eyes means more awareness!
@belka85 It's the demo team support crew. What else are they suppossed to do? Better to be safe than sorry, especially at an airshow with thousands of civilians.
@Amar7605 I especially like the "Crew Chief" or whatever his position is, give the engine crank/spool-up signal. Someone tell that tard the damn thing starts on its own, electronically, no need for pointless hand gestures. You only need one signal for "Clear to start" and that involves everything from APU to the point of the final walk around signal. The entire process the US does is nothing short of laughable.
@belka85 He's not necessarily calling for a spool up. The crew chief is basically giving the pilot an 'all clear' signal. The chief is signaling the pilot that it is all clear to start up the engines. Plus, the crew chief will check for anything unusual during startup, like an oil or fuel leak or foriegn debris. And just because there's a 'clear to start' signal, that doesn't mean that the job is completed. From what I know, it is the crew chief's airplane until the pilot begins to taxi.
@Amar7605 I know what the CC is responsible for, that's a given. I'm commenting on the unnecessary hand gestures when the engine is spooling up. We give the pilot one signal to start his APU, both engines and do his FCS checks prior to the final walk around. If someone isn't paying attention and walks into a flight control or any other danger area it's their fault.
@Amar7605 Canada. We fly the baby hornets but the concept is the same with the Supers. We get the same reaction from the US when they do exercises with us, they can't get over the notion of one ground guy (technician) doing the start, park, checks, fueling etc. Meanwhile, the US has no less than 5 guys per aircraft, all doing a specific task. I talked to this one guy from a squadron (had a mickey mouse character holding a bomb) and all his job was checking tires and removing gear pins. Different
@belka85 To physically start the aircraft, yes. You only need one person. However, you need a safety spotter/plane captain (depending on where you're from) to keep an eye out underneath and around the aircraft for hazards. I can't see whats going on under the aircraft, so I need a spotter to give the "All Clear" to start the APU, then do a right and left crank.
Thats a good question. I guess they only do that for Airshows. AS a matte of fact I believe you can crank up both powerplants up simultaneously. But I think you can only use Bleed Air from the JFS (APU).
The F-15 has airstarters that uses bleed air from the JFS-100.
@belka85 Because it's a demo team, the other guys are all part of the team and are just playing their part standing out there for the air show. There's only one that actually assists with the start-up and system checks with the pilot. Looks like someone just wanted an opportunity to jump on Americans and make us look dumb. Besides, seeing as we're the only country in the world that conducts carrier fixed-wing flight ops at the pace and scale that we do; a few extra safety observers don't hurt.
@belka85 their there checking the whole plane out to see if everything's in good order, not to start up the plane. Would be ridiculous if the plane crashes because no one noticed if a rutter didn't work.
The marshaller just takes care of taxiing the aircraft. The guy who stands in front of the aircraft and helps the pilot with startup etc is the crew chief. Usually the crew chief will also act as marshaller too but not always. In the Navy they call the crew chief a "Plane Captain".
On aircraft carriers the plane captain (brown shirts) take care of what you see here in the video, but once the aircraft is ready to move the "marshallers" of the flight deck crew (guys in yellow shirts) take over.
They are just part of F/A 18 demo team. Not sure if the Navy breaks their's down into east and west groups like the Air Force does. Most demo launch teams usually are comprised of crewchiefs and specialist. But if you are not a crewchief, u can be cut trained to do their tasks, like marshalling and servicing.
Spool, as in just the general spooling up of the engine fan blades as they grow rotational speed. You can hear the engine growing louder and loudrer and whining quicker and quicker.
its a demo team but really in real life on the flight line they have about 2 people he starts the engine and 1 person watches for things and the other taxi him out of the ramp
killjoy270 2 months ago
Also u need to remember one thing. This is Navy. Where do Navy planes often fly? The carrier. That deck is a tight place with lots of ppl around and noisy as heck. U need the safety of those hand signals. Yeah this vid is on land but u do the same so u don't mess up on board.
zarniwoop42 1 year ago
Sorry hit my rtn button. But after going fed. 40ft. They all ran under the plane and checked it all again.
zarniwoop42 1 year ago
No balks what they were doing is not laughable. What is was I was doing some work with the A.F. They had all the guys do the checks, started up the 15, taxied forward about 20 ft. The
zarniwoop42 1 year ago
that buzzzing noise you hear is the compressor blade stalling at start
F35JSF1 1 year ago
man i love that start up hummmmmmmmmmmm
killjoy270 1 year ago
shouldnt they be wearing hearing protection?
Orange3791 1 year ago
@Orange3791 its not that loud to tell u the truth
killjoy270 1 year ago
F414?????
RAPTORNo1 2 years ago 3
The type of engine the super hornet has
33hwc 2 years ago
what a beast!
cs512tr 2 years ago
yum
gscsoccer7 2 years ago
Although still a slightly odd practise compared to FAF standards... the sound there is pretty f-ing loud, and plugs aren't as effective as full cups. Other thing that I noticed is that nobody's checking the VENs (Variable Exhaust Nozzles) that open up as the engine revs up and starts providing hydraulic pressure to the systems - they check the compressor 1st stage instead? In FAF there's always 1 or 2 guys checking the VENs after the pilot rolls his finger for a permission to start.
Blackscorpy 2 years ago
I remember seeing the Demo at Millington TN (a former navy base). Man you talk about power! I was standing near a C-5 when it took off (about 3,000 ft from the runway) and you could could fell the rumble.
Nice jet. But still miss the F-14 flying at the airshow
Skippy585 2 years ago
I want to put this sound in my IPod :)
mathieuplaneur 3 years ago 3
Is the first sound the Jet fuel starter, and then the main engines come on?
patio87 3 years ago 2
Its the APU (auxillery power unit if you didnt know ;) ) its required in jet-powered aircraft (i think :P)
MTFDarkEagle 3 years ago
yup, that thing is as loud as the jet itself. lol
zeek997733 3 years ago
Well, the APU is a small jet engine itself, rotating at around 60000 rpm (yes, 1000 rounds per second), started with stored hydraulic pressure and used to rev up the engines to around 63% (F404) via the gearbox before applying a bit of throttle to engage the fuel pumps.
Regarding the comment on earplugs... I usually use double protection (plugs and cups). The things are LOUD. Especially if the engine is started in an open hangar... the vibration makes your organs move.
Blackscorpy 2 years ago
A correction (my bad) - the APU generates air pressure to the Air Turbine Starters, which are simply turbines connected to the gearbox. So APU isn't directly connected to the gearbox.
Blackscorpy 2 years ago
I LOVE THIS SOUND
BenoitMagimel 3 years ago
That sound is music to my ears!
SuperHornetPilot 3 years ago
I just love the moan of the turbine blades stalling!
Hairysteed 3 years ago
wtf no ear protector? The noise must be very loud.
kerguule 3 years ago
earplugs
Hairysteed 3 years ago
Typicaly in the Navy, and i know because i was Naval Aviation during startup there is one man per shop, a lot of times anyway, you will have the Plane captain, the guy doing the signals with the pilot, you will have an AT, and airframer, and final-checkers who do the final walk around
wilz1122 3 years ago
i remember my old plane captain days when i was in the Navy, lots of fun!!
wilz1122 3 years ago 2
thats not just a hornet, thats the super hornet! its the old hornets predecesor
skatetolive101 3 years ago 9
You only need one person to start a F-18. I don't know why the US finds it necessary to have as many as 6 people for a start and park.
belka85 3 years ago 11
just f. lol!
philippas21 3 years ago
Simply because the staff on the field are mechanics who check and prepare the plane for the next flight... sure it's possible to start the plane by a single pilot without any mechanics, but the staff are there for emergency, for communication with pilot during startup etc... lots of reasons... (similarily here in Finland, not only in U.S.)
netcu78 3 years ago 2
I'm just talking about having one tech on the ground that does everything. Here in Canuckistan we have have 1 guy that is qualified to strap in the pilot, do the last chance check, fire up the engines and do a final walk around before giving the pilot the high five. On top of that, he is qualified on the engine and airframe systems. I just find it funny/strange/different, to see 6-7 ground crew per jet for a simple launch.
belka85 3 years ago
Weel you have the 2 saftey officers. You have 2 Inspectors. You have a singleing guy. And you have the person who singnels its ok to go.
westboy48 3 years ago
On a normal basis, you only need one Crewchief (or specialist that is cut trained to do Crewchief duties) to meet/greet the pilot, strap him in, and to get him going and out, and one other person to man the fire bottle. But this is a demo team, they you 3 people. 1 manning the left and right side, and Cheif in the front (the A man) to signal all ops checks since on demos, they do not use wire communication with the pilot. But this not normal, doing the mission procedures. This is only for demos.
mushmouth1981 3 years ago
How many guy do you have around a single plane in the US? I mean the whole thing - morning checks, pre-flight preparations, getting the thing airborne, and between flight checks. "Working" as an assistant mechanic ("apumekaanikko") in the Finnish Air Force, as a conscript - actually inspected a Hornet lower fuselage this morning - and since it's the same job and planes, would be interested to know how you do the things over there. Heard that the 4 A/B resets are because of separate repair teams?
Blackscorpy 2 years ago
@belka85 More eyes. Did you ever see the story about the green crewman who was sucked into the engine of an A-6? The pilot shut down the engine after another crewman gave him a shutdown signal. Sure it was a freak accident, but more eyes means more awareness!
636Castle 1 year ago
@636Castle While this is true, the people working around the aircraft should be aware of the aircraft's danger area's.
belka85 1 year ago
@belka85
we all need a job man
helmetless 1 year ago 2
@belka85 It's the demo team support crew. What else are they suppossed to do? Better to be safe than sorry, especially at an airshow with thousands of civilians.
Amar7605 1 year ago
@Amar7605 I especially like the "Crew Chief" or whatever his position is, give the engine crank/spool-up signal. Someone tell that tard the damn thing starts on its own, electronically, no need for pointless hand gestures. You only need one signal for "Clear to start" and that involves everything from APU to the point of the final walk around signal. The entire process the US does is nothing short of laughable.
belka85 1 year ago
@belka85 He's not necessarily calling for a spool up. The crew chief is basically giving the pilot an 'all clear' signal. The chief is signaling the pilot that it is all clear to start up the engines. Plus, the crew chief will check for anything unusual during startup, like an oil or fuel leak or foriegn debris. And just because there's a 'clear to start' signal, that doesn't mean that the job is completed. From what I know, it is the crew chief's airplane until the pilot begins to taxi.
Amar7605 1 year ago
@Amar7605 I know what the CC is responsible for, that's a given. I'm commenting on the unnecessary hand gestures when the engine is spooling up. We give the pilot one signal to start his APU, both engines and do his FCS checks prior to the final walk around. If someone isn't paying attention and walks into a flight control or any other danger area it's their fault.
belka85 1 year ago
@belka85 Are you a CC or something? If then, that's great. What country, if I may also ask?
Amar7605 1 year ago
@Amar7605 Canada. We fly the baby hornets but the concept is the same with the Supers. We get the same reaction from the US when they do exercises with us, they can't get over the notion of one ground guy (technician) doing the start, park, checks, fueling etc. Meanwhile, the US has no less than 5 guys per aircraft, all doing a specific task. I talked to this one guy from a squadron (had a mickey mouse character holding a bomb) and all his job was checking tires and removing gear pins. Different
belka85 1 year ago
@belka85 because more the people u have the less screw ups but i know what u mean
killjoy270 1 year ago
@belka85 To physically start the aircraft, yes. You only need one person. However, you need a safety spotter/plane captain (depending on where you're from) to keep an eye out underneath and around the aircraft for hazards. I can't see whats going on under the aircraft, so I need a spotter to give the "All Clear" to start the APU, then do a right and left crank.
Sparksjet 1 year ago
@belka85
Thats a good question. I guess they only do that for Airshows. AS a matte of fact I believe you can crank up both powerplants up simultaneously. But I think you can only use Bleed Air from the JFS (APU).
The F-15 has airstarters that uses bleed air from the JFS-100.
Skippy585 11 months ago
@belka85 Because it's a demo team, the other guys are all part of the team and are just playing their part standing out there for the air show. There's only one that actually assists with the start-up and system checks with the pilot. Looks like someone just wanted an opportunity to jump on Americans and make us look dumb. Besides, seeing as we're the only country in the world that conducts carrier fixed-wing flight ops at the pace and scale that we do; a few extra safety observers don't hurt.
mike71085 10 months ago
@belka85 their there checking the whole plane out to see if everything's in good order, not to start up the plane. Would be ridiculous if the plane crashes because no one noticed if a rutter didn't work.
FloOFy2 9 months ago
@belka85 good example of where our tax dollar's are going. no wonder the US is in deep financial shit
lexlov250 8 months ago
Comment removed
Legendary588 5 months ago
@belka85 its for safety precautions, Just to make sure everything is good to go.
Legendary588 2 months ago
i think they are call the marshaller, lead plane for takeoff and landing.
Extreme1567 4 years ago
The marshaller just takes care of taxiing the aircraft. The guy who stands in front of the aircraft and helps the pilot with startup etc is the crew chief. Usually the crew chief will also act as marshaller too but not always. In the Navy they call the crew chief a "Plane Captain".
On aircraft carriers the plane captain (brown shirts) take care of what you see here in the video, but once the aircraft is ready to move the "marshallers" of the flight deck crew (guys in yellow shirts) take over.
Jumpshot724 4 years ago
ohh ok, i always get confused with the person who take care of the taxiing, and engine start person.Thnx for the info
Extreme1567 4 years ago
im not sure what the job is called, but the crew guys that have to stand in front of it must have a lot of faith
PsuPepperoni 4 years ago
They are just part of F/A 18 demo team. Not sure if the Navy breaks their's down into east and west groups like the Air Force does. Most demo launch teams usually are comprised of crewchiefs and specialist. But if you are not a crewchief, u can be cut trained to do their tasks, like marshalling and servicing.
mushmouth1981 4 years ago
The guys standing in front are not in any king of immediate danger. A
mushmouth1981 4 years ago
Immediate or not...
Deafness :)
It's incredibly loud in that distance.
EDFgoofy 4 years ago
Hey, as long as you got those double EP's in, you'll be alright!!
LOL
mushmouth1981 4 years ago
True but don't see him using it...
I always had those 'bubbles' in my head when standing that close. Anyway that roar is at best at the back, right next to VEN's...
Damn I miss that noise :)
/Jyri
EDFgoofy 4 years ago
= what if the plane start going by itself O.O
Extreme1567 4 years ago
@Extreme1567 in that case, the crew on the ground will bail out, and the pilot will lose their trust
ICEGTN 1 year ago
Demo.. Yeah!!!-------F-16 Viper East..
mushmouth1981 4 years ago
they rule
skeeder10 4 years ago
Gosh that is one of the best sounds in the world!!
Stingboy316 4 years ago
i work for the company that makes the parts for that engine kerns mfg. kernsmfg dot
com.
moistfusion 4 years ago
Awesome!
Rmebratt 4 years ago
God I love that spool..!
KuostA 4 years ago
I have never actually witnessed in person the actual startup, what the hell is the "howl"? What exactly is "spooling?
zdierkes 4 years ago
Spool, as in just the general spooling up of the engine fan blades as they grow rotational speed. You can hear the engine growing louder and loudrer and whining quicker and quicker.
KuostA 4 years ago