It was and still is just blurry videotaped analog signal encoded onto a disc - PHYSICALLY (lol) - not digitally & they SKIP LIKE HELL unmercifully from the lowest device to the most expensive ones. UGGGH I wish I had never bought one.
Exactly 6:00 ! Wow! Anyway, I heard that the CED is practically a Vinyl Record! Has anyone tried playing a CED on a turntable? I wanna know what happened? Let me know, will ya ;-)
@ConfusedSponge That would probably ruin the disc, if you got it out of the caddy. The groove is supposedly 1/37th the width of a normal record groove, so it would skip right over. Furthermore, even if you did have a needle that small, the signal on a CED was read in a different manner, and would likely not sound like much at all on a record player.
This format failed because it tried to compete with the VCR, which it couldn't do.
Laserdisc on the other hand also tried to compete with the VCR at the beginning and almost died trying to do so. But when Pioneer got LD, they decided to market it as a high end product for videophiles and not to compete with the VCR.
@boface31 That's the needle skipping on the disc! Just about every disc does this during playback at one point or another- discs that had never been played were usually worse on their first play. Though I don't recall angry riots resulting from this, it's probably the biggest reason it didn't last on the market too long!
someone could create this idea ,DSDvideo laser disc , record it blu-ray laser, or it the new technology Holographic Versatile Disc "HVD" , Direct Stream Digital Video, uncompress video and audio , original master
Kinda sad that this format failed, it had a lot of good ideas, for instance the caddy idea, I don't know how many DVDs I have had to replace over the years due to damage by scratches, a caddy could have prevented such scratches.
Corporate America is getting greedier and produces really bad quality. General Electric for example is really taking advantage of their customers. Recently, I sold homes in a tract of 280 homes and appliances were by GE. Every home owner had problems with one or more of their home appliance. The warranties had ran out in some cases and problems kept repeating. So GE was making money from their customers over and over on new appliances. GE's customer service is one of the worst as well.
I just bought a CED player at Goodwill yesterday for $5.99, we had to tinker with it a little to get it working but now it works great!! Also I thought it was hilarious Goodwill had it marked as a VCR, they probably had no idea what this thing was.
Funny to see what was considered a great film back in the early 80's, take casablanca and the godfather out of this ad and your felt with a lot of dated films
Aside from the BTTF pun, more or less, yes it could be considered a flux capacitor.
The discharge of electricity to the electrode is varying in intensity and frequency and was always going on so long as the stylus was riding in the groove.
Flux = continually moving / always changing
Capacitor = A device that stores an electrical charge for later discharge.
@Watcher3223 The stylus doesn't even have to be physically touching the disc for the electrode to pick up capacitance variations. In fact (and amazingly) towards the end, RCA was working on a pick-up method that kept the stylus a few microns above the disc, eliminating all physical contact, and thus wear, of the CED disc. At the same time JVC was working on a consumer version of laser playback for their VHD discs. They all wanted to get rid of the stylus for so-called "high-end" players.
'In fact (and amazingly) towards the end, RCA was working on a pick-up method that kept the stylus a few microns above the disc'
I could see how it's possible, though the challenge would be how the stylus can track the disc unless the stylus is close enough to allow the groove to guide it.
But, I'd imagine the same configuration being more successful with VHD had it been implemented since the stylus is guided electronically via pilot track.
As for laser, too bad that didn't make it with VHD, as the ELF laser turntable is proof of concept, although differences in scale of the groove and stylus might apply.
Snow White never came out on this format, in fact it never came out on any video format until 1993. There were just a handful of boxed CED sets- the miniseries Jesus of Nazareth on 4 discs in a box, and a couple operas- the interactive games that came later came in thin boxes with instruction cards too.
@eyeh8nbc The miniseries "Holocaust" was also available as a 4-disc boxed set for 99.95 on CED. It even came with a booklet and study guide. Jokes about the format aside, RCA really knew how to package their discs to give the perception of "value" and make a buyer feel they were part of a select group. And no video format before or since has had the beautiful custom artwork like CED had. The James Bond disc caddy's are works of art!
If you've ever taken one of these machines apart, you'll notice a bar with a rubber tip that lifts up the disc when it is ejected. Over time, the rubber could wear out, crumble, or go missing and there would be nothing but a piece of metal scratching the disc, which is probably why so many of them skip.
If you take a disc out of the sleeve, you can see the vertical markings from that bar lifting the disc up.
Oh, and if you get a fingerprint on the disc, kiss that video segment goodbye.
Ahhh, RCA in its glory days when they could try to pull off a solid product like this. I don't see their name much in the market outside of cheap dollar store CD players and cassette adapters now.
The problem was this WASN'T a solid product. I'll certainly give the players some credit for still working after more than 25 years without any major maintenance, but skipping was unavoidable on it. This never should have been put on the market until they could fix that problem once and for all, though by 1981 they were already several years later than they had wanted. I cherish my collection greatly but this deserves its place in history as the 8-track of video.
@eyeh8nbc RCA was getting the skipping problem under control and the SJT and SKT series of players, especially the interactive player, rarely skipped on discs that weren't otherwise defective. RCA had a number of new circuits in the works that could sense instantly a forward or back skip and get the stylus back on track before the disc had even made a complete rotation - usually within 2 fields.
@eyeh8nbc You are right, there was no future in the CED format and RCA knew it. Unlike LD, the CED format was at its technological limits with no possibility of improving picture quality, adding digital sound, etc, improvements that LD (and tape formats) did with ease. JVC added digital sound to VHD, extended chroma/luma resolution, added 3D and PC control, etc... all things CED could never do because of the 450 RPM speed that caused limited available disc bandwidth.
Thats because RCA as we know it went backrupt in 1986 and the name was sold off to the highest bidder, which in this case happens to be a french company known as Thomson SA. Thomson SA deals in cheap consumer electronics.
jones105639 in the 1990's RCA was being soled by radio shack as a radioshack "official brand". i recall buying nothing but RCA electronics back then from them, and they were all CRAP! cheaply made and lasted worth beans. radioshack told me they went from there Optimus brand to RCA brand. do you recall that or anyone else out there?
I can see why LaserDisc and DVD (and now Blu-Ray) easily beat this format, who in their right mind would want to keep flipping the load and unload switch, putting that sleeve in and out of that player. Just inserting the disc itself is actually simpler.
You had to flip over laserdiscs on most players too- auto-reverse players didn't come along til about 1988, though if CED had lasted til then they probably would've had them too.
When DVD was being developed Blockbuster wanted them to come in caddies to prevent damage, but the companies said no. I've checked out DVDs from the library and Redbox, some have gone through unspeakable abuse.
uhh...that was Laserdisc. these were video records actually read by a stylus. the technology that is used in this goes all the way back to the Edison tin foil recordings from the 1870s!
Pause blanks the screen-notice that is NOT shown! later players could pause with 3 frames playing over and over-a strobe or stutter pause. I disconnected the anti-skip as a test on my player, and it does get 'stuck' looping a few frames very fast!
This was running all the time in Eaton's and Simpsons in Downtown Montréal. They were very poor seller in Montreal since they lacked French tracks unlike DVD's of today.
Ah, that skipping brings back memories. Haha! My dad bought one of these players sometime in '83 or '84, and we used it until the early 90s. He got rid of it a few years ago because he said it was "broken"-- I bet anything that it just needed a new belt or stylus. Sigh.
I grew up on these things. My dad was one of the engineers that helped develop them. (he still has one) If anyone else remebers before video stores with VHS tapes their were video disc rental stores. the intro jingle for the CED discs is embedded in my head for the rest of my life. growing up in 80's :)
I actually own the very model of player shown in this video. I use it every now and then to play some of the movies I got from my parents' collection. Pretty much every movie skips, sometimes they won't stop unless you physically hit the player. Try THAT on a faulty DVD player.
I also own that particular player, the SFT-100-W. It's pretty cool. I experience the skipping, too -- as intelligent as the sleeve design was, dust seems to get in there anyway. Since there's about 9,541 grooves per inch, the skipping effect is more pronounced than a regular phono record. Playing over that section a few times usually helps dislodge the dust, though.
What amazes me, though, is how the player *still works* 26 years later...
Did he say "uninterupted"?? You had to flip the disc over at least once per movie, more if on a 2-disc set. How does the announcer define "interuption"?
Probably being no commercials like on regular TV. Most of the early laserdiscs had "End of side 1" and "Beginning of side 2" bumpers, which were pretty annoying especially on later players that could auto-flip. Only a very small number of CEDs had those. A few movies running slightly over 2 hours were time-compressed (sped up) to fit on one disc.
Yeah- this was transferred to DVD from a 1982 SGT-250 player, which I got from an Ebay seller a couple years ago that had NEVER been used in 23 years! I've got several players but that's my main one now (the SJT players take too long to start playing and you can't play the dual-audio discs in stereo on them.)
I have a working, mint condition RCA SJT series player that plays disc's from my private collection perfectly. You can still buy needles for them if anyone still uses these beasts. The quality is good, nothing compared to DVD. I keep the player in shape primarily since I grew up watching video's on these player's and I'm attached to it.
First time I've seen what a CED video looks like (though I haven't seen it in person besides seeing the players/discs 25 years ago). I still think DiscoVision/LaserDisc fared better.
Bring the magic home with RCA! lol What crappy song line.
TheLegendkiller2100 2 months ago
i still can't my head how video was created from a vinyl record...
But if RCA had gotten this out to the market sooner it may have succeeded because VHS movies were more expensive back then....
LIBshark 2 months ago
It was and still is just blurry videotaped analog signal encoded onto a disc - PHYSICALLY (lol) - not digitally & they SKIP LIKE HELL unmercifully from the lowest device to the most expensive ones. UGGGH I wish I had never bought one.
ANATOLIACHTZEIN 3 months ago
Exactly 6:00 ! Wow! Anyway, I heard that the CED is practically a Vinyl Record! Has anyone tried playing a CED on a turntable? I wanna know what happened? Let me know, will ya ;-)
ConfusedSponge 4 months ago
Comment removed
BugKiller98 4 months ago
@BugKiller98 Wow, interesting! Thanks for the info ;-)
ConfusedSponge 4 months ago
@ConfusedSponge That would probably ruin the disc, if you got it out of the caddy. The groove is supposedly 1/37th the width of a normal record groove, so it would skip right over. Furthermore, even if you did have a needle that small, the signal on a CED was read in a different manner, and would likely not sound like much at all on a record player.
Satlam 3 months ago
@Satlam Hmmmm, intersting! Thanks.
ConfusedSponge 3 months ago
Paramount was big Circuit City divx support supporter
nomadcowatbk 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This format failed because it tried to compete with the VCR, which it couldn't do.
Laserdisc on the other hand also tried to compete with the VCR at the beginning and almost died trying to do so. But when Pioneer got LD, they decided to market it as a high end product for videophiles and not to compete with the VCR.
rkoguy 10 months ago
God that public-domain music thrown over the movies makes me want to projectile vomit. The rolling stones was particularly horrible.
mgabrysSF 10 months ago 2
at 1:45 it sounds funny and skips
boface31 11 months ago
@boface31 That's the needle skipping on the disc! Just about every disc does this during playback at one point or another- discs that had never been played were usually worse on their first play. Though I don't recall angry riots resulting from this, it's probably the biggest reason it didn't last on the market too long!
eyeh8nbc 11 months ago
♪ Bring The Magic Home With RCA! ♪
Techraingeek 1 year ago
@Techraingeek Bring The Magic Home With RCA
rkoguy 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
someone could create this idea ,DSDvideo laser disc , record it blu-ray laser, or it the new technology Holographic Versatile Disc "HVD" , Direct Stream Digital Video, uncompress video and audio , original master
CMatomic 1 year ago
Lady Sings the Blues. Looks sweet!
RkivUnderground 1 year ago
Kinda sad that this format failed, it had a lot of good ideas, for instance the caddy idea, I don't know how many DVDs I have had to replace over the years due to damage by scratches, a caddy could have prevented such scratches.
thatguyontheright1 1 year ago
I want one! CED Videodiscs are the future!
lemonrind 1 year ago
Wow, movies sucked before the 1980s.
lemonrind 1 year ago
Why?? Just flat out why? You couldn't record on them and you had to flip them over midway through the film. Why?
jugglingembalmer 1 year ago
1:08 HUMAN DANCE IN World of warcraft
gregory06 1 year ago
1:45 looks like an exciting movie all because the CED skipped... Insert a flux capacitor joke here.
dashwarts 2 years ago
Corporate America is getting greedier and produces really bad quality. General Electric for example is really taking advantage of their customers. Recently, I sold homes in a tract of 280 homes and appliances were by GE. Every home owner had problems with one or more of their home appliance. The warranties had ran out in some cases and problems kept repeating. So GE was making money from their customers over and over on new appliances. GE's customer service is one of the worst as well.
WeRateU 2 years ago 2
I just bought a CED player at Goodwill yesterday for $5.99, we had to tinker with it a little to get it working but now it works great!! Also I thought it was hilarious Goodwill had it marked as a VCR, they probably had no idea what this thing was.
naughtyringtail2002 2 years ago 4
Funny to see what was considered a great film back in the early 80's, take casablanca and the godfather out of this ad and your felt with a lot of dated films
harrysboy 2 years ago
i THOUGHT CED IIS THE FORMAT THAT WASN'T SUPPOSED TO SKIP
drews1998 2 years ago
that was doomed from the starts, i bet the static got terrible after a while as the dust started building.
Mikej2156 2 years ago
Nice video my dear virtual friend.
mig189189189 2 years ago
3:13 - Pogroms for children?
levanyzzuf 2 years ago
I guess u can say all of this made way for DVD and Blue Ray.
ameriboy3 2 years ago
Not exactly.
CED worked on principles of electrostatic capacitance and used a needle stylus.
LaserDisc would be more apropos as the format that made way for DVD and Blu-Ray Disc.
Watcher3223 2 years ago
a CED was basically a flux capacitor.
kargaroc386 2 years ago
Aside from the BTTF pun, more or less, yes it could be considered a flux capacitor.
The discharge of electricity to the electrode is varying in intensity and frequency and was always going on so long as the stylus was riding in the groove.
Flux = continually moving / always changing
Capacitor = A device that stores an electrical charge for later discharge.
Watcher3223 2 years ago
@Watcher3223 The stylus doesn't even have to be physically touching the disc for the electrode to pick up capacitance variations. In fact (and amazingly) towards the end, RCA was working on a pick-up method that kept the stylus a few microns above the disc, eliminating all physical contact, and thus wear, of the CED disc. At the same time JVC was working on a consumer version of laser playback for their VHD discs. They all wanted to get rid of the stylus for so-called "high-end" players.
lovemylogics 1 year ago
@lovemylogics
'In fact (and amazingly) towards the end, RCA was working on a pick-up method that kept the stylus a few microns above the disc'
I could see how it's possible, though the challenge would be how the stylus can track the disc unless the stylus is close enough to allow the groove to guide it.
But, I'd imagine the same configuration being more successful with VHD had it been implemented since the stylus is guided electronically via pilot track.
Watcher3223 1 year ago
@lovemylogics
As for laser, too bad that didn't make it with VHD, as the ELF laser turntable is proof of concept, although differences in scale of the groove and stylus might apply.
Watcher3223 1 year ago
Comment removed
Coastergeekperson04 2 years ago
Bring the magic home with rca! lol What a chessy song.
rkoguy 2 years ago
Yeah, the ced player was awesome. Until 2 half a damn month later when every disc you owned was skipping it's merry little way to HELL.
vicviper2345 2 years ago
Poor RCA :-(
Nokorola 2 years ago
My record store actually has a crateful of these discs, including a super-deluxe set of Snow White with miniature reproduction lobby cards.
Kouban 2 years ago
Snow White never came out on this format, in fact it never came out on any video format until 1993. There were just a handful of boxed CED sets- the miniseries Jesus of Nazareth on 4 discs in a box, and a couple operas- the interactive games that came later came in thin boxes with instruction cards too.
eyeh8nbc 2 years ago
It's possible that what I found was actually a Laserdisc, but the rest is accurate.
Kouban 2 years ago
@eyeh8nbc The miniseries "Holocaust" was also available as a 4-disc boxed set for 99.95 on CED. It even came with a booklet and study guide. Jokes about the format aside, RCA really knew how to package their discs to give the perception of "value" and make a buyer feel they were part of a select group. And no video format before or since has had the beautiful custom artwork like CED had. The James Bond disc caddy's are works of art!
lovemylogics 1 year ago
Say whatever else you like, the visual quality is impressive.
Kouban 2 years ago
What made these amazing You could show off the disc!The container alone made beta and vhs look lame!!God I wish it was 83 again!!!!!!
mikepatton109 2 years ago
If you've ever taken one of these machines apart, you'll notice a bar with a rubber tip that lifts up the disc when it is ejected. Over time, the rubber could wear out, crumble, or go missing and there would be nothing but a piece of metal scratching the disc, which is probably why so many of them skip.
If you take a disc out of the sleeve, you can see the vertical markings from that bar lifting the disc up.
Oh, and if you get a fingerprint on the disc, kiss that video segment goodbye.
drbpony 2 years ago 2
Ahhh, RCA in its glory days when they could try to pull off a solid product like this. I don't see their name much in the market outside of cheap dollar store CD players and cassette adapters now.
ekkostar 2 years ago
The problem was this WASN'T a solid product. I'll certainly give the players some credit for still working after more than 25 years without any major maintenance, but skipping was unavoidable on it. This never should have been put on the market until they could fix that problem once and for all, though by 1981 they were already several years later than they had wanted. I cherish my collection greatly but this deserves its place in history as the 8-track of video.
eyeh8nbc 2 years ago
@eyeh8nbc RCA was getting the skipping problem under control and the SJT and SKT series of players, especially the interactive player, rarely skipped on discs that weren't otherwise defective. RCA had a number of new circuits in the works that could sense instantly a forward or back skip and get the stylus back on track before the disc had even made a complete rotation - usually within 2 fields.
lovemylogics 1 year ago
@eyeh8nbc You are right, there was no future in the CED format and RCA knew it. Unlike LD, the CED format was at its technological limits with no possibility of improving picture quality, adding digital sound, etc, improvements that LD (and tape formats) did with ease. JVC added digital sound to VHD, extended chroma/luma resolution, added 3D and PC control, etc... all things CED could never do because of the 450 RPM speed that caused limited available disc bandwidth.
lovemylogics 1 year ago
Thats because RCA as we know it went backrupt in 1986 and the name was sold off to the highest bidder, which in this case happens to be a french company known as Thomson SA. Thomson SA deals in cheap consumer electronics.
joness105639 2 years ago 2
jones105639 in the 1990's RCA was being soled by radio shack as a radioshack "official brand". i recall buying nothing but RCA electronics back then from them, and they were all CRAP! cheaply made and lasted worth beans. radioshack told me they went from there Optimus brand to RCA brand. do you recall that or anyone else out there?
tromeoandjuliet 2 years ago
Yeah, I remember optimus, and also "realistic".
joness105639 2 years ago
I must have the Godfather on this. "is that a DVD?" Uh, no!
mikeb1444 2 years ago
they used a stylus ----- no laser
cobolsaurus 2 years ago
oh yeah, the poor man's vcr (minus the recording)
kawininja81 3 years ago 2
I can see why LaserDisc and DVD (and now Blu-Ray) easily beat this format, who in their right mind would want to keep flipping the load and unload switch, putting that sleeve in and out of that player. Just inserting the disc itself is actually simpler.
Azusa109 3 years ago
You had to flip over laserdiscs on most players too- auto-reverse players didn't come along til about 1988, though if CED had lasted til then they probably would've had them too.
When DVD was being developed Blockbuster wanted them to come in caddies to prevent damage, but the companies said no. I've checked out DVDs from the library and Redbox, some have gone through unspeakable abuse.
eyeh8nbc 3 years ago 2
I just bought one of these demo discs on eBay! ;)
DrLove0378 3 years ago
Holy crap!!! i never even imagined that anything like that would exist!!! That's awesome!!! I want one!! too bad they went obsolete so quickly.
wilkes85 3 years ago
Behold the DVD's great-grandpappy
InfamousShad 3 years ago
uhh...that was Laserdisc. these were video records actually read by a stylus. the technology that is used in this goes all the way back to the Edison tin foil recordings from the 1870s!
Kargaroc286 3 years ago
Oops, my bad.
InfamousShad 3 years ago
High tech!
homerjla 3 years ago
Pause blanks the screen-notice that is NOT shown! later players could pause with 3 frames playing over and over-a strobe or stutter pause. I disconnected the anti-skip as a test on my player, and it does get 'stuck' looping a few frames very fast!
VideyoJunkei 3 years ago
This was running all the time in Eaton's and Simpsons in Downtown Montréal. They were very poor seller in Montreal since they lacked French tracks unlike DVD's of today.
rivest266 4 years ago
Ah, that skipping brings back memories. Haha! My dad bought one of these players sometime in '83 or '84, and we used it until the early 90s. He got rid of it a few years ago because he said it was "broken"-- I bet anything that it just needed a new belt or stylus. Sigh.
skystarless 4 years ago
I grew up on these things. My dad was one of the engineers that helped develop them. (he still has one) If anyone else remebers before video stores with VHS tapes their were video disc rental stores. the intro jingle for the CED discs is embedded in my head for the rest of my life. growing up in 80's :)
germ317 4 years ago
@germ317 Send me a message if you're still on YouTube - I'd love to talk to you about your fathers work on the CED VideoDisc format.
lovemylogics 1 year ago
is this a laserdisc?
what were the magnetic discs called? they were like a giant floppy disk with a sliding cover that would reveal the disc.
meowza3k 4 years ago
These are played with a stylus, not a laser.
eyeh8cbs 4 years ago 6
@meowza3k Laserdiscs and CED's (videodiscs) were completely different. CED's were much cheaper, and were far lower quality than Laserdiscs.
foxh8er 1 year ago
@meowza3k They were more like a regular record inside a hard shell, and played just like a record with a needle.
DougMcCallister1 1 year ago
i don't know what side 1 is for and where the fbi warnings and previews and hv logos
wswfootball19 4 years ago
I love the period music, especially the part at 5:15.
Jal8919536 4 years ago
Nah - the crap they put over the Rolling Stones to make them sound like " the musikadorkus generic blandage band" is far superior.
mgabrysSF 3 years ago
Is there a 'stop' button so you can stop anytime?
Jal8919536 4 years ago
Ironic that the demo disc skips at 1:45!
chameleonday 4 years ago
I actually own the very model of player shown in this video. I use it every now and then to play some of the movies I got from my parents' collection. Pretty much every movie skips, sometimes they won't stop unless you physically hit the player. Try THAT on a faulty DVD player.
PhoenixSteel 4 years ago
I also own that particular player, the SFT-100-W. It's pretty cool. I experience the skipping, too -- as intelligent as the sleeve design was, dust seems to get in there anyway. Since there's about 9,541 grooves per inch, the skipping effect is more pronounced than a regular phono record. Playing over that section a few times usually helps dislodge the dust, though.
What amazes me, though, is how the player *still works* 26 years later...
DrLove0378 4 years ago
Did he say "uninterupted"?? You had to flip the disc over at least once per movie, more if on a 2-disc set. How does the announcer define "interuption"?
VideoJunkei 4 years ago
Probably being no commercials like on regular TV. Most of the early laserdiscs had "End of side 1" and "Beginning of side 2" bumpers, which were pretty annoying especially on later players that could auto-flip. Only a very small number of CEDs had those. A few movies running slightly over 2 hours were time-compressed (sped up) to fit on one disc.
eyeh8cbs 4 years ago
Oh Thank you for this CED Video disc Demo.
First time I See the Video disc Demo now it time Bring the Magic Home.
LaserdiscDream 4 years ago
The voice-over for this clip is the late great Herschel Bernardi, also the original voice of StarKist's "Charlie The Tuna".
chuffedtobits 4 years ago
lol that clip must of been from a ced disk it skips at about 1:47 in
ottawaoctane 4 years ago
Yeah- this was transferred to DVD from a 1982 SGT-250 player, which I got from an Ebay seller a couple years ago that had NEVER been used in 23 years! I've got several players but that's my main one now (the SJT players take too long to start playing and you can't play the dual-audio discs in stereo on them.)
eyeh8cbs 4 years ago
AWESOME!
CassetteMaster 4 years ago
I have a working, mint condition RCA SJT series player that plays disc's from my private collection perfectly. You can still buy needles for them if anyone still uses these beasts. The quality is good, nothing compared to DVD. I keep the player in shape primarily since I grew up watching video's on these player's and I'm attached to it.
tvcommercialman 4 years ago
I had one of these machines for a while and the bitch skipped like hell!
Chub4ChubsRule 4 years ago
First time I've seen what a CED video looks like (though I haven't seen it in person besides seeing the players/discs 25 years ago). I still think DiscoVision/LaserDisc fared better.
ProductionX 4 years ago