Women in Islam: Liberated or Oppressed? - Myriam Francois Cerrah

[MsCurbsideprophet]

People as so quick to judge someone on their outer appreance without looking into depths. This is what's making society fail as whole. We are at a place were we are so focused on how we look rather than our intellect, wisdom and knowledge.

Much respect to Myriam Francois Cerrah, who is clearly a woman of wise words.

[CoolKandahary1]

@karlsmith00 , I welcome you to Afghanistan :)

[horsie111]

But...but...if most of the people in hell are women ("I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers are women.") then how can Allah be merciful and compassionate? Because people don't choose to be created man or woman, so those people are in hell due to how Allah chose to make them different to men.

Blame Allah, not the women! Because obviously, he just should have made women *as good as* men.

[sususoos]

@karlsmith00 ,One can do like the way you comment but we read from Hadith when the opposite of it happen.so we conclude, we can not judge Islam by some ignorant Muslims.

[Yessir432]

Fantastic talk by an intelligent woman :)

[AllThatKnowHow]

@karlsmith00 your understanding outreachs anything I came accross, please tell us more about the suffering of this muslim women in islamic countries. Better still go and tell them to their faces. I'm sure they have representive where you live (you know refugees)!!! Right for women to inherit is give in the quran 1400 years ago, when did europe allow women to inherit? You are free but lack Freedom, let others find there way.

[chocolatepaki]

@karlsmith00 Sir you are so pissed off at English people reverting to Islam LOL, we can see you are totally unaware of what secular democracy means, asking these women to leave England LOL. BTW whats your opinion about English people converting to Judaism, should they head for Israel?

[AllThatKnowHow]

@karlsmith00 Doha Doha Doha Debates 

[surreyislamicsociety]

@karlsmith00 The title of the talk was women in "Islam" not "Saudi Arabia". lol I think you need to distinguish between a Global faith and a geographical location. :) Remember that Islam is a belief not a race, tribe or country! lol It absolutely amazes me that you think Islam = Afghanistan and Christianity = UK/US.

[arseymcpherson]

I'm afraid of religious people. Especially those who accept that they must wear a costume to please their god. I do not need to believe in an unseen force to know that I should treat others with respect on a daily basis. If you do, then you are to be feared like a dangerous mental patient.

[AllThatKnowHow]

@arseymcpherson Wow, freedom of Expression down the drain. Run free and wild like Jungle girl. Not too long ago, sometime now, Africans a are seen as backwards for not wearing much, but a plant leave or two !!!! Respect women and stop wanting them to be half nude to be free. Lastly, let God be, it is a position of choice.

[arseymcpherson]

@AllThatKnowHow Where did I say that I wanted women too be 'nude to be free'? It is you who are obsessed with the idea.

[Metsada007]

Women in the West are oppressed.

[arseymcpherson]

@Metsada007 Back up your words coward.

[Griffinltd]

Whilst admittedly the substance of her lecture was "Women in Islam," it’s a grave distortion not to separate (or separate and not address) the distinction between how Islam as a religion treats women, and how it is practiced by predominately Muslim States. She mentions that the Qu'ran advocates women rights, which I can accept as perfectly valid from the examples she provided - but it is distortive to suggest that women are not being discriminated and marginalised in a lot of Islamic states.

[housse51]

The Irony :

Muslims : We are taught by the Qur'an n Hadith n Our Scholars not to Oppress or to force anyone into our religion..

Non-Muslims : We are taught by "people" (and media, of course) that Your Religion and Your Qur'an Forces people to convert and to oppress and to beat (whole day) your wife and children (infact, i think in their mind they picture a pious muslim man punching his own kid and wife)..

truth is (violent) Non-Muslims is forcing their "version" of islam on muslims.. funny..:)

[JustHuman48]

The burqa suppresses sexuality and the bikini makes sexuality public property. Extremes are not the answer. The middle way is the best.

[surreyislamicsociety]

@JustHuman48 But who said that wearing a burqa is what all Muslim women should do? Even Myriam herself doesn't wear one! I think YOU are referring to extremes. Most Muslim women are on the middle way, but you would rather look at the 2% who wear burqas :)

[mildpace]

@surreyislamicsociety

You yourself came up with 2% figure, and you tell that as if it is established fact. LOL. Typical muslim.

[drbooksquirrel]

@JustHuman48

this is really interesting, and i don't really know what the answer is. but when you say the burqa suppresses sexuality, i mean all moral rules suppress you to some degree. i dont think the burqa is a good idea for other reasons, but like i don't think we apply that line of reasoning to any other moral rules.

[Scorsese]

@JustHuman48 Not sure that's right. The burqa suppresses the tendency towards sexualisation - not sexuality - objectification and sexualisation doesn't mean sexuality.

[JustHuman48]

No clever clogs. I don't oppose allowing women to wear hijab or dress modestly out of their own freewill. I oppose people LYING and saying that Islam liberates women. Cerrah may give some good examples which do liberate women however the verses which devalue women are far more plentiful in the Qur'an and Hadith so essentially, that outweighs her argument. I think that the bikini and the burqa are two sides of the same ugly coin. Extremes.

[surreyislamicsociety]

@JustHuman48 Who said anything about burqa? Can you please provide this so called authentic quote which tells all Muslim men to FORCE women to wear a burqa for us all to see.. :) You are so focused on the outer appearance of a Muslim woman but fail to address the ethics and values. Hardly much of the talk even referred to the outer appearance. Does it really bother you that much if a lady wishes to cover her hair out of modesty? What about nuns, Jewish women, and other similar religions?

[surreyislamicsociety]

@JustHuman48 Who said anything about burqa? Can you please provide this so called authentic quote which tells all Muslim men to FORCE women to wear a burqa for us all to see.. :) You are so focused on the outer appearance of a Muslim woman but fail to address the ethics and values. Hardly much of the talk even referred to the outer appearance. Does it really bother you that much if a lady wishes to cover her hair out of modesty? What about nuns, Jewish women, and other similar religions?

[AllThatKnowHow]

@JustHuman48 Please point me to the verses in the Quran that devalue women and/or the Hadiths, please, please, please

[JustHuman48]

@AllThatKnowHow All religious scriptures are ambiguous and the Qur'an is no different. In one surah it says kill the infidels and in another it says you can marry and do business with people of the book. In one place it says that men and women are equals whereas in another it states that men get twice as much inheritance as women.

[JustHuman48]

@AllThatKnowHow If the Qur'an was referring to a particular context (which it was as back in 7th C, men were responsible for financially supporting the entire family's needs after a death), then it should EITHER be referred to as an account of history OR a morality manual. It cannot be both. When political parties say one thing one minute and something completely the opposite next, people describe them as flip-floppers without a clue. Why should we make exceptions for religious scripture?

[AllThatKnowHow]

@JustHuman48 Please point me to the verses in the Quran that devalue women and/or the Hadiths, please, please, please. PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTIONED ASKED AND DO NOT ASSUME YOU ARE RIGHT BY LISTENING TO PEOPLE OR ASSUMING YOU KNOW WHAT AND HOW THINGS ARE SAID AND MEANT IN THE QURAN.

[Griffinltd]

@AllThatKnowHow

I'm happy to lend weight to the argument that the Qur'an doesn't "discriminate" against women, aside from making clear that men and women are not equal - "gender roles" so to speak. (Which is something as an Atheist I tend to agree with). However, I find it undeniable that this isn't the way the Islamic faith is being administered in predominately Muslim countries. Women ARE being punished after coerced into sex, even though the Qur’an says not to.

[Griffinltd]

@AllThatKnowHow

Ran out of space so I'll continue briefly here.

My point is that the problem is systemic, intolerance is being practiced by Islamic states whether you believe it is religiously justified or not. Something has gone wrong, false interpretations perhaps? You tell me. The “do as I say not as I do” rhetoric is fine up until the point that people are needlessly being stoned to death for things like homosexuality.

[zidane247]

@JustHuman48 to my understanding burqa is more a cultural thing than it is islamic. although shouldn't people be allowed to dress how they want to? and where in the quran do islam debase/devalue women? during the days of the of the prophet, the disbelievers would kill their daughter/s because they much prefer a son. tell me how bad that was.

[surreyislamicsociety]

@JustHuman48 You say that Islam devalues women but not provided ONE example. What do your values say though? NOTHING, as you have no values. There is no positive case for secularism. If a country wishes to kill innocent women then secularism cannot say anything against it. Secularism is merely absence of religion!

[JustHuman48]

@surreyislamicsociety Gosh, aren't you thick...and dishonest. I'm not here to provide you with examples. Just go look in the Qur'an and the Hadith. There is no case for secularism? Secularism is the reason why people of different faiths can practice their faiths with minimal state interference in Canada and the UK. Secularism isn't the ABSENCE of religion. Secularism is the separation of a government, organisation or institution from religion and/or religious beliefs.

[surreyislamicsociety]

@JustHuman48 I am not being dishonest. If you study your history you will see that under the Ottoman Empire we had Jews, Christians & Muslims all living in harmony peacefully. Secularism is the problem with Libya, Egypt etc. These are all secular laws which have been implemented! Do not blame Islam for the actions in the East when it is Secular corrupt leaders who are clearly responsible. Anyways we have gone way off topic and you haven't provided any examples of women being oppressed in ISLAM!

[JustHuman48]

SEPARATION, NOT ABSENCE. It means that no secular government can infringe it's citizens rights by ENFORCING a religion upon them. Meaning what? Meaning that everyone can practice their religion and not impose it one another. You're either very dishonest or very stupid.

[surreyislamicsociety]

@JustHuman48 When I said Absence, I meant absence in governmental decisions. You are right that secularism is the separation of religion & state. I advise you to research the Ottoman Empire to see how such a system is not necessary within Islam as we do not have the same historical baggage as many other religions. Islam does not oppress people but allows them to practise their faiths. In fact Muslims must protect (Ahlul Kitab - People of the Book) who are Jews, Christians etc. Please research!

[JustHuman48]

@surreyislamicsociety How about protecting HUMANS and all of God's creatures regardless of what they frickin believe?

[surreyislamicsociety]

@JustHuman48 Under the banner of secularism, there is nothing which says we MUST protect humans and creatures despite their beliefs. However in Islam we must treat each other with respect and love. Our love and kindness is not conditional upon whether they are Muslims or not. We love Non Muslims too! I really think you have misunderstood Islam. Look up videos on YouTube on "Secularism and Islam" and put these comments there. They really do not belong to this lecture as this is a different topic.

[JustHuman48]

And by the way, secularism is good for everyone as it respects the religious beliefs of all and allows people to have a religious life in private without any issues. Wearing your religion on your sleeve in public and making a fuss over every detail of your public life is nothing but expression of one's ego, something that the almighty could never condone. We are not here to serve our egos.

[surreyislamicsociety]

@JustHuman48 "secularism is good for everyone as it respects the religious beliefs of all" Yet you oppose allowing Muslim women to wear hijab or dress modestly out of their own freewill? If a woman wishes to wear a bikini down the street you have no problem but as soon as she wants to practise her religion (without imposing upon others) you have a problem! I don't think secularism does respect everyones beliefs and I think secularism has no values. Its merely separation of state and church/faith

[drbooksquirrel]

@JustHuman48 "secularism is good for everyone as it respects the religious beliefs of all "

that specifically is true, but the broader point isn't. if you believe in moral rules, then you don't tolerate disrespect for it. if someone murdered someone, and said they didn't believe murder was wrong, then it wouldn't be tolerated. or if someone doesn't pay their taxes, that isn't tolerated either. they get thrown in jail for a thousand years.

[JustHuman48]

@drbooksquirrel The only people who don't *believe* murder is wrong are those who are suffering from a psychological problem. We don't need religion to tell us our moral code since we all know the things that we would NOT want done to ourselves...we just have to NOT do to others what we wouldn't want done to ourselves or our loved ones. Simple.

Morality is doing what is right regardless of what we're told. Religious dogma is doing what we're told no matter what is right.

[JustHuman48]

To clarify, I have a Muslim name, I was born into a Muslim family and brought up as a Muslim... I left the faith, why? Because I realised that I can find more morality, humility and humanity in a television instruction manual than any of the Abrahamic scriptures. They are ambiguous and do contain good, but sorry, the legacy of paedophilia, rape, concubines, polygamy, murder, violence, hatred, war, intolerance towards otherness, obsession with female sexuality...that cannot be God's word.

[JustHuman48]

When a scripture devalues a woman's worth, how can she feel liberated? The Qur'an was very feminist by 7th century standards and gave women more rights than any other doctrine around at the time, however, I'm not sure how MFCerrah can have the audacity to suggest that Islam liberates women in this day and age. Those who "like" this link are a disgrace to the dignity of Muslim women of Iran, Libya, Syria, Egypt who are all suffering due to Islamic misogyny. Ask THEM if Islam liberates them.

[surreyislamicsociety]

@JustHuman48 Thank you for your comment, but if you actually watched the lecture then I don't understand how you could write such a comment :S The talk is discussing women in ISLAM not Iran, Libya or Syria for that matter. There is a clear difference between culture and Islam as addressed in the talk. The people who DISliked this link are a disgrace to modern day intellectualism. Since when do we judge an organisation or religion on the actions of some of their members? Peace :)

[JustHuman48]

@surreyislamicsociety Please clarify. You've just said the talk is about women in Islam not Iran, Libya or Syria. Then you've backtracked and said "Since when do we judge an organisation or religion on the actions of some of their members?" So you do acknowledge that Iran, Libya and Syria are "members" of Islam? Iran population: 72 million . Libya: 6.5 million. Syria: 21 million. Total = 99.5 million. If 99.5 million is a minute number for you, what would would you consider to be a lot?

[surreyislamicsociety]

@JustHuman48 Thank you for your comment again :) Again, why are we judging Iran, Libya or Syria? These are not Islamic countries or states and totally irrelevant to the talk. Please watch the lecture before commenting in future. Even if ALL the Muslims in the World were this population of 99.5 million people (instead of 1.5 Billion) then it still would not mean that we indite ISLAM. That would be like saying that the UK & USA represents Christianity when it obviously doesn't as its more secular.

[JustHuman48]

@surreyislamicsociety Indeed. Christians in the UK and USA do represent Christianity, just as Christians in Russia, Greece or anywhere else might. A religion is what it's people do!

[JustHuman48]

If your idea of intellectualism is stating an argument then stating the complete opposite then yes, indeed, I am a disgrace to modern day intellectualism. As for your statement of "peace" at the end. How dishonest you are. Calling someone a disgrace then this passive aggressive, moral highground "peace" at the end. Who do you think you're kidding?! You think God doesn't see inside your head?!

[surreyislamicsociety]

@JustHuman48 Why can I not wish peace upon you? Just because I don't agree with your views or logic it doesn't mean I have to wish death upon you. LOL I wish peace upon you! :D

[JustHuman48]

@surreyislamicsociety Because it's insincere! You call me a disgrace and in the same breath "peace". It's just passive aggressive supremacist nonsense.

[JustHuman48]

The people who support the views put across in this video only think in binary. Islamic, modest, pious Islam OR hypersexualised western woman. Life is not binary. There is always this thing called rationality and this other thing called balance. No-one's asking Muslim women to walk around in thongs and dance round poles...however...the solution to living in a culture where such things are considered acceptable is not to go to the other extreme either. Islam does not liberate women..

[surreyislamicsociety]

@JustHuman48 You say Islam does not liberate women. How does your culture/society or even religion liberate women? No one said anything about binary. You seem very angry and worked up. Islam is a peaceful way of life. If a woman wishes to follow Islam then what right do you have to stop her? You want to impose your views upon her and force her not to dress modestly or live the life she wants to. To me thats real oppression!

[JustHuman48]

@surreyislamicsociety What is MY society? When did I say that I would stop a woman from following Islam? Force her not to dress modestly? Totally off topic. My point is, how can a religion whose scriptures clearly contain passages which devalue women, LIBERATE women? Islam and women's liberation have as much in common as a sandwich does with an escalator.

[JustHuman48]

...just look at all the Islamic republics and states where Islam is the main religion. Women are not free to do much else other than wear their modest clothing, stay at home and produce babies. Iran is actually the only Islamic state where women are slowly fighting back with regards to education (very high literacy rates) attire and employment...why? Because Iran has a tradition of respect for literature, arts, music, culture etc since before Islam. They haven't been brainwashed for generations.

[surreyislamicsociety]

@JustHuman48 There are no Islamic states :S I really think you should do some research before making comments or people will begin to think you are just plain dumb. :) Islam promotes education, arts etc. Again you are confusing Eastern culture with Islam. There is a clear difference my friend. Please watch the lecture before commenting or you really will not get it. For the final time: we are analysing ISLAM not IRAN or SYRIA. Very big difference between ISLAM & CULTURE. :)

[JustHuman48]

@surreyislamicsociety It comes as no surprise that you evade all the issues I've raised.

[surreyislamicsociety]

@JustHuman48 My friend, I have responded to all your comments! How can you say that Ive evaded your issues? I'm just saying that by critising the law of Iran is different to critising Islam. Its like me saying that America went to war with Iraq and killed millions of innocent people and that its Christianity's fault. That would be stupid! We do not judge Christianity on America's actions. You speak of secular values, but that is worse! You have NO values as secularism is just absence of religion

[JustHuman48]

@surreyislamicsociety As Christian as the republican right might be in the US, officially, there is a separation of state and religion in the US. There isn't in Muslim majority states so your argument re: judging Christianity falls flat on its face. The USA never purports to be a "Christian state". Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lybia, Saudi etc DO purport to be Islamic states...hence...they represent the religion! And once again dufus! Secularism is SEPARATION of religion from matters of the state.

[JustHuman48]

How convenient that there are no Islamic states according to you. A religion is what it's people do, not what you say is religion and culture.

[surreyislamicsociety]

@JustHuman48 Its not convenient that there is no Islamic state. Your the one postulating that there is an "Islamic State". Can you give me an example? :) We do not judge a religion on its people but we judge a religion for its teachings. Your criteria for judging a religion is flawed. Its like judging atheism by the actions of Stalin :)

[JustHuman48]

@surreyislamicsociety Give me some more examples of atheists like Stalin. You can't can you? Ok rephrase "Islamic states" for "Muslim majority states"...happy?? Makes no difference since the religion being practiced in these states is Islam!

[surreyislamicsociety]

@JustHuman48 "Makes no difference since the religion being practiced in these states is Islam!" The problem is in that assumption though my dear friend. The religion is NOT being practised. If it were then these atrocities would not be taking place. :) Islam is a peaceful way of life. It does not wish to impose its values upon anyone. It is very clear that people have the freewill to believe and follow what they wish. You are mixing Christianity & Islam up. Check Islamic history and see :)

[justrational1400]

fantastic talk! JazakAllah Khair.

[surreyislamicsociety]

@justrational1400 We agree. JazakAllah for watching! Hope you share this video around insha'Allah (Ta'ala)

[TheSayfullah114]

Jazaklah sister may allah reward you... Ramadan Kareem

[surreyislamicsociety]

@TheSayfullah114 May Allah also reward you for watching the lecture and sharing it around for others to benefit :)

[oxymor0n1]

Islam is Justice

[surreyislamicsociety]

@oxymor0n1 Definitely! Thank you for your comment and for taking the time to watch this lecture. :D

[jery61007]

Mashah Allah.............Fantastic speech I have ever heard in this topic.........May Allah bless you here and hereafter with peace................

[orgolioitalia1]

SubhanAllah!

[LadyD1sdain]

Fantastic speaker mashallah. Keep it up sister, I'm praying for you!

[chocolatepaki]

Very Nice Address

Keep it up

[surreyislamicsociety]

@chocolatepaki Thank you for your comment! Please share and subscribe so others will benefit from this event :)

[QuranTafseer]

May Allah increase this sister in knowledge, (Ameen)

awesome video, Mashallah

[surreyislamicsociety]

@QuranTafseer Definitely. And May Allah continue to allow us to seek knowledge and share it amongst our friends & family. Please subscribe and share :)

[QuranTafseer]

@surreyislamicsociety We have

[MyOne007]

masha allah may allah increase her knowledge even more

[surreyislamicsociety]

@MyOne007 Thank you for watching! :) We hope you found it useful and have shared this video with others so they will also benefit! :D

[welqy]

id just like to point out that Fatima was also a scholar, there are so many rulings and duas from Sayida Fatima (ra)

amazing tlk! barakAllah to you sister, now back to your kitchen! *jokes jokes wala jokes!*

[mosa8828]

@welqy allah guide you to true islam

[mosa8828]

@welqy good lecture

[welqy]

@mosa8828 i wasnt lecturing.. :s i just made a simple point