I don't think Harry went home feeling victorious after that. I have yet to see a more compelling and convincing argument against "ignorance and bigotry". Certainly looking forward to it. Should be very empowering...especially for the black gay/lesbian community. Harry mentioned that the apostle Paul was privileged and educated, but so is he. Perhaps it's his status that undermines his credibility too.
(Rightfully dividing the word in it's proper context) Romans 1st Chapter describes an incident of straight men and straight women who turned their backs on God*** 21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.***23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
When you read the story of David&Jonathan in the King James Version of the bible;it is abundantly clear that they had a special love for each other that was expressed like no other covenant of love betwn 2 individuals through-out the entire bible.
1Sam 20:30Then Saul's anger was kindled against Jonathan, and he said unto him, Thou son of the perverse rebellious woman, do not I know that thou hast chosen the son of Jesse to thine own confusion, and unto the confusion of thy mother's nakedness?
But such WERE some of u.... BUT YOU R WASHED....from homosexuality!! That's only one thing were saved from among many sins. Can I get a sanctitied witness!
whenever someone has their own ideaology that has no scriptural base to it, you better be careful. no one is promoting hate, only the truth. if i commit ANY sin its wrong, but God does and will forgive me because all have and will sin.------but where people get into trouble is when they try to justify those actions
U CANT JUST ROLL OVER CAUSE THATS WHAT U WERE TAUGHT TO DO, THE BIBLE IS MISSING PLENTY THIS ISNT WHAT THE CREATOR INTENDED U CAN FEEL WHAT U WANT TOO BUT WE ALL DONT KNOW SHIT!!! ABOUT WHAT THE CREATOR WANTS WE WASNT THERE IF ITS WRONG TO U DONT DO IT JUST LIKE EVERYBODY CANT HAVE ENOUGH HEART TO KILL BUT SOME LOVE IT....
What all of this means, my friend, is that all this picking at the Bible - which is actually a collection of 73 diverse books - really doesn't amount to beans. There must be, and IS, an authoritative interpretation of the Bible which makes just such a "cohesive whole".
I’m sure most Christians disagree with that (that the Catholic Church has the authority to interpret the Bible) and say that Catholics deviate and contradict what the Bible says about many subjects. I can think of a few examples off the top of my head. At any rate, I don’t take the Bible serious – the 73 book or the 66 book. The books were voted on, the authorship is unknown, its full of contradictions, scientific inaccuracies, and cruelties.
@AntonBatey, it doesn't make any difference what "most Christians" think.
I was raised in a New Age tradition, and studied practically every other form of Protestantism for about 40 years. After receiving a Master's degree and a Certificate in Advanced Catechesis (a 3-year program), I converted to the Catholic Faith about 4 years ago.
Authority actually is the key issue. Protestantism is fundamentally a rebellion against that authority (as is Atheism, for that matter). They are wrong.
Of course we’re wrong. We’re not the same religion as you, lol. Protestants would say that the Catholic Church was an apostasy, and atheist would say that we’re rebelling from non-reason. And I’m correct regarding the “infallibility thing”, as well as the whole morality issue. You didn’t prove there is anything outside humanity, so you lost that debate before you even started.
Haha, contradicting myself? What I’m saying is crystal clear and is non-contradictory, and you know it. I said that according to me, Nazism is immoral. It speaks volumes that ALL you have are non-realistic hypotheticals, and even using that, you cannot make your point. Like I said, you suck at this, lol (no offence). You are suggesting something immaterial yet you cannot prove something immaterial exists.
I did answer. You just didn’t like the answer because you cannot refute it and it gets straight to the point. When did I ask you to prove morality exists?? Man, you have created so many strawmans it’s not even funny anymore. I asked you to prove that GOD exists, which is where you claim morality comes from.
I’m asking you very seriously, stop being dishonest. Beating you over the head is getting quite boring.
There are at least six "proofs" of God's existence; the "Argument by Morality" is one of them. In short, if there is any objective reality to things like good, evil, right, wrong, love, etc. - and if the universe has any ultimate justice or meaning at all, then there MUST be a God.
That’s one of the worst “proofs” I have ever heard. It’s not only putting the cart ahead of the horse by presuming god exists, there is just no connection between the two subjects. Also, if one can use your line of reasoning and borrow one of your ridiculous hypotheticals, all someone has to say is, “fine. There is no morality. So what? What does this have to do with god”.
Shitty argument. Use the cosmological or teleological one instead.
@AntonBatey Fine! Thank you for just laying it out like-a-man:
"There Is No Morality".
So, do the majority of us - who DO believe in a good and an evil, and DO believe in an ultimate justice, and DO believe that some things are just wrong regardless of what people think - a favor:
Stop "moralizing" against Christianity, and tell people this straight-up, let you be called a "hypocrite".
Thanks for proving that all you have are strawmen. Yes, yes, "morality" comes from a being which you cannot prove exists, and faxed a book full of laws that you know you consider immoral.
By the way, I wish to retract the last first sentence; I shouldn't say that you're "a-moral" - I apologize. You might be a better person than I; who knows (I still can make value judgements!).
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But you don't believe in any ultimate morality, that's for sure. You DO understand that this is a tenet of Atheism. So, you may still be a very "good" person - but if you "moralize" about things and make value judgments, you still would seem the hypocrite.
So can I, since essentially, we have the same morals. You just believe that a god which you cannot prove exists gave them to you, when in reality, much of the moral codes of the Bible were taken from other cultures. In other words, no matter how much you may believe they're from god, they're really not. Authors of the Bible attached "god" to them to give it more credibility. And god knows everything, so "he" would know what proof would suffice.
Well then, why don't you just be honest with everybody? Why did it take us this long to get you to admit that you don't even believe in a right or a wrong, good or evil?
Yeah, okay, you’re stuck on a word “morality”. Regardless what you call it, the way I live and things I consider desirable are in accordance with the vast majority of humans.
I’m sorry, but you lose this argument, badly. You want to posit a god into the equation when you cannot even prove such a mythical being exists. Even if you believe that morality comes from god, you can’t prove it. The “morality code”, like the 10 Commandments were borrowed anyway.
For example, the infallibility of the Pope. That’s fairly easy to refute, isn’t it? The “no eating meat on Sunday” rule which was just pulled out of the Pope’s ass, that’s ridiculous, isn’t it? Being a devout Catholic, there is a lot of bad history to stand behind. The Inquisition, the Reformation, etc.
@AntonBatey Regarding the infallibility thing, you are obviously ill-informed here - as with the other issues.
All of these are a separate topic. I'm happy to discuss any of them in due course - but the topic at hand is Scriptural interpretation. The Church that compiled and canonized the Bible has the authority to interpret the Bible.
Okay - I'll take that as an answer: If EVERYONE agreed something was moral, then it would be.
But let's just say that you ARE the odd-man-out, thinking that the Nazis were wrong. Who would you be to disagree with them? Their "experts", their "psychiatrists", their whole government?
Wouldn't you be less-"right" than they are? There would certainly be no objective standard to appeal to, right?
If everyone except me thought the Nazis were good, then I'm screwed.
There is nothing outside human minds that makes it "wrong". If there is, what is it? According to you, it's god, which you cannot prove exists, which is why I say you are presupposing something that cannot be remotely proven.
Luckily, because what I consider as “moral” is not in accordance with Nazism, I would never be the odd man out. Again, if all you have are incongruous hypothetical scenarios, then you don’t really have an argument.
Why would you be "screwed" if you were the odd-man-out? If everybody in the world thought that wrong was right, that wouldn't make it "right", would it?
I would be “screwed” if I was the only person who thought Nazism was wrong because Nazis threw dissidents in a concentration camp and/or killed them.
And I don’t see your point about everybody believing at one time that the earth was flat. They were wrong, as was proven later by scientists. In fact, you shoot yourself in the foot with that example because the Bible indicates that the earth is flat.
I'd be screwed because Nazis jail or kill people they disagree with. If I thought Nazism was wrong and Nazis were in power, I'd be jailed or killed. And of course I would still think they were wrong, and I would not respect their opinion.
I also want to congradulate you on not responding to the flat-earth blunder you made, or your non-attempt to even prove the god you claim that these "moral laws" came from.
Okay - let's go just ONE PERSON more: Let's say that - hypothetically - you came around to their way of thinking (perhaps under heavy pressure, brainwashing or torture). Now, EVERYBODY agrees that genocide is okay.
We're not making progress. I've been repeating myself for about 5 days now and you have not been answering any of my questions or points. Instead of defending your book which talks about talking snakes, donkeys and so on, you're diverting the conversation. Now.....you're talking about "morality", and you believe that it comes from god......can you even PROVE this god exists?
I've ben saying the same thing. That "morality" is not a thing, and only exists within humans. I think you are imagining things. I asked that IF there was something outside the natural world where morality came from (god), then prove it. If you can't, then everything you say is pointless.
@AntonBatey Oh. Now, you're back to your original position - If everyone said that Nazi genocide was "moral", then it would be. That doesn't make any sense, does it.
I've been saying the same thing. That I'd think it was wrong regardless, personally. And I never said that Nazism would be "moral" if everyone said it would be. Nice that you're lying though. Says a lot. As for Stalin and Mao, I'm not apologists for them, as I'm as far away from a communist as one can be. Communism is like religion though in more ways than not.
And this is now the, what? 7th time you ignored my points.
What happened here is that even though you gave the standard Atheist answer (i.e., morality is a 'human construct'), you intuitively KNOW that this isn't right.
That's not what I said. Go back and read. I said that morality is innate. What you consider, what I consider, and what most people consider. How you come to something outside humanity to decide is beyond me. You are acting very odd.
That's a good one!! Look at the 20th Century, mate: Stalin (atheist) killed 20,000,000 people, and died peacefully in bed. Mao (atheist) killed at least this many. BOTH killed simply to stay in power, and for no other reason.
Oh, and when the Nazis were tried after the war in Nuremburg, they said the exact same thing as you: "Morality is a human construct; Who are you to judge us?"
Fortunately the Americans - with their JudeoChristian heritage - believed that some things were wrong regardless of what people think.
So I said - I don’t know how many times now to you – that “morality” is a word applied to a concept that humans use to subjectively refer to things they value. Luckily, most humans agree that minimizing harm is “moral”, which I agree with. I say that it’s innate. You claim that it’s supernatural. What I’ve asked now at least 7 or 9 times is to PROVE that it came from god. You’re afraid of that, so you ignore it. I don’t blame you. You know you cannot defend a book that says snakes talk.
When did I say that genocide would be right is everybody thought that? I said the exact opposite. I very clearly said that if I was the odd man out in Nazi Germany and thought it was wrong, that I believe I’d be right.
How could you have misinterpreted that when I stressed the issue? You aren’t being honest.
And now it’s the 9th time you ignored my point. Keep going.
I don't mean to belabor this, but it's worth going over again. You said:
"if I was the odd man out in Nazi Germany and thought it was wrong, that I believe I’d be right."
Let's bring it to today: That's 1 person saying that it's Wrong, and 5,999,999,999 saying that it's Right.
If you changed your mind, according to you, that would make it "right", wouldn't it?? Everybody would agree! You also said that morality was an entirely human thing.
Wow. I don’t mean to be rude, but I find it absolutely unbelievable that you do not comprehend what I’m saying. When did I EVER even remotely indicate that just because everybody believes something, that makes it true? I clearly said that if I thought Nazism was right, I’d be wrong. I also said that there is nothing outside humanity that should be imported in this subject because it’s not necessary. I asked you ten times now to prove it if there is and you simply ignore that part.
But seriously, how can you not see what I’m saying? I don’t think that there is anything supernatural, unless you call “thoughts” supernatural. What I’m saying is not that complex, is not ultra-philosophical, and is clearly an accurate description of how the world works.
Francis Crick - Atheist, and discoverer of the DNA molecule - said that "love" is just "chemicals". In other words, there really is no such thing as "Love" as an objective reality; it's merely an illusion.
But you're saying this same thing about Morality - it's just an illusion too. You do understand that this applies to everything we've always considered important - namely Meaning, Right, wrong, Good, evil.
They’re products of the physical humans. You constantly are harping as if there is something outside us humans, and you keep ignoring that. If there is, they prove it. If you can’t, then this argument is at a stand-still and you just are saying you have blind faith.
The bottom line here, Anton, is that you're saying that really is no such thing as "morality". You know it, I know it, and anyone with a brain knows it.
All this talk about "morality" from an Atheist is just dishonest BULLSHIT.
And let’s suppose there is no such thing as what you call “morality”. So what? This has nothing to do with there being a god. The subject of morality is a diversionary tactic that usually Christians use to stay off the subject of the immorality of the Bible, the absurdities of the Bible and the archaic doctrines found in the Bible. This conversation is the proof since you ignored everything I asked you about it.
We can talk about the Bible. I'm Catholic, so I'm sure that you'll have plenty of questions :-)
In short, Christianity is NOT a religion of "the book", as the mere 500-year old Protestant tradition claims. It is a religion of an authoritative Church. The Bible CAME from this Church, so it has the authority to interpret it.
1) The Church teaches that Scripture must be read "within the Living Tradition of the whole Church". That means that even though ultimate Truth doesn't "evolve", our understanding of it does. We DO have a better understanding of things than did the Hebrews 5,000 years ago.
2) Scripture must be a "cohesive whole". The Catechism of the Catholic Church says: "Be especially attentive to the content and unity of the whole Scripture", of which Christ Jesus is the "center and heart".
Mr. Knox is clearly blind. please pray for him. There are many like him in the world today who hold his same beliefs, there are on the way to hell, whether it be today or tommorow or whenever God calls them home. Please pray that they seek God before the fire of their lives is snuffed out. Blesings.
LOL @ religion! personally i dont give a crap what gay people do, and religious people can give all their personal power away to a fucking book. it's insanity
Ms Thing,if you was talking about me(and you was'nt ..LIAR)then your confused.I have a zeal for no man,but" THE MOST HIGH"i dont know of Jennings,but he rules with the truth he spoke...on this issue.You sound very bitter...are you gay?...did someone hurt you?...if so i apologize for them....OHH dont hide behind using the word christain..JESUS was'nt a christain and he never said anyone should be, i'm not,and Jennings said he not either...you might be a good person,just be truthful.
I was talking about Baptists, I'm an athiest who doesn't appreciate people bearing false witness against his nieghbors for sh*ts and giggles, :MRS. THING".
Ms. or Mr. Thing,if you are an athiest,why are you using bibical term like"bearing false witness".....hummm....i think theres a little Baptist in you trying to get out.
@SuperProphet100 The devil is the one who hates love, the man in this video "preaching" against his neighbor, who mocks this neighbors' plea for hospitality at the gates of Sodom. He is YOU, idolator. Your evangelical "theology" will fall out of favor, as it has in the past, and you will be left with a scorched earth in the place of where your reward might have been. You are the slave master, you are the evil. Enjoy your earthly rewards, it's all you're ever gonna get, slanderous hater.
I don't worship anything but the most high,so to call me a idolator makes you a fool.You're worshipping homosexuality in spirit and all the demonic fixings that come with that hideous lifestyle.We love thy neighbors in spirt aswell but homos are an abomination,so we suppose to either help them with their sickness or leave them alone,the same with other sins.My rewards are never ending,I live a great life with no sad deaths for my love ones and no suffering in this great evil times.
@SuperProphet100 I don't worship anything, which is one of the many differences between us. The most prominent difference is that you are a bigot, and a supplicant of ideas and concepts you can't fully grasp. That makes you an idolator. And believe me, idolator is the most generous word out there for you, you don't want to hear the more descriptive ones.
If you want to be slick with your mouth then i'll say this,"there's nothing in common with us,nothing".You're a rebel against God and nature and just because you don't know you're worshipping the devil doesn't mean you're not.you're worshipping a lot more then you think,that why you're acting rude and mean spirited and childish yourself,you get into it with alot of people and you're wrong.Unlike fags i'm not scared of truth or "lies in your case",you can say what you feel to me,liar!
@SuperProphet100 Oh, I see! America is sick and you propose some sort of remedy? And this so called remedy includes reactionary, supercilious slander leveled at random strangers who call you on your bullshit.
"America was build off of the blood of blacks and red people you fool!
You'd like to discuss the mutual struggles of Americans against the construct of white supremacy then? Oh, that's the struggle of anyone who isn't gay, right? Or is that gay or white?..damn you're a fucktard, for real.
Dr. Knox stands in need of a doctor if he thinks he is justified in being homosexual. We know that when a man prefers a lie over the truth, GOD said he will send him strong delusion that he should believe a lie over the truth,because when the truth came he rejected it. There is nothing Dr. Knox can say to make what he is saying to line up with scripture. He is saying what he wants the bible to say and not what it actually is saying. GOD is clear in OT and NT that he is against homosexuality.
Does the Earth go Backwards around the Sun ? Homosexuality is Against Nature.. Gravity has its Law, what goes up must must comes down, Night will fall, the Sun will rise. Even without the bible, It is against Nature.. It is a spirit of deception.. Avoid it with wholeness..
Incorrect, homosexuality is very normal and has been around for millions of years. Some people and animals simply aren't strongly attracted to the "opposite" sex, nothing wrong with that. Ever heard of Dusk and Dawn? that's where gay people live on the human continuum.
So learn about this subject so people don't always have to educate you. Thanks.
Can you tell me what book I need to read concerning your comment because I dont like to be ignorant ignorance is not a bliss for me. Futhermore I never one in my life felt gay in any way I never had feel for a man, always for a woman if she has a pair of tight jeans on I not be looking away I,ll be say wow shes hot. If i see a man in tight pants I have no feeling for him whatsoever thats how I know there is not a bit of gayness in at least all of us. Just ask my girlfriend.
Just recently sexologists have confirmed that homosexuality is NOT a choice. Even google it. How is it agaisnt nature? What about heterosexuality, straight, is that a choice? No. You either like men, women, or both. Are you gay? No so how could you possibly know what it's like or know if its a choice or not. People like you are the reason why America's suicide rate increases significantly.
You have no scientific studies, which sexologists have and proved it isn't a choice. Just because you in believe in something strongly, does not make it a fact. GEt yourself out of denial. BAgging on this comment will only prove what I'm saying.
You're wrong about that - there are plenty of studies showing that this behavior invariably comes from a damaged relationship with the parent of the same sex. It's well-known.
But you speak truly when you say "just because you believe in something strongly, does not make it a fact" - as much as this clown WANTS to think that he's following God's law, he isn't. That's painfully obvious.
And there have been many studies showing that it ISN'T a chose, how in the hell would you know which one's right? You believe what you want, there's no point in arguing over something that is endless.
Because the gay lobby is very militant, and unfortunately very influential.
But they've been desperately trying to find some "genetic" link practically since the dawn of modern science. They've never found it, and they never will.
@Dystopiologist Read some scientific studies, starting with the Kinsey report. When you get to the Christian apologist mangled science reports, the ones used as a red herring to thwart free inquiry in the world, skip them. You live in a bubble, it's been carefully constructed to keep you ignorant, and it's working, boy that much is obvious. Your bible slanging colleges have kept you from your God given abilties long enough, why is your ability to reason so scary to you anyway?
@Dystopiologist This is the most absurd comment I've heard in this abnormally ignorant thread...You really think the professional bigots arrayed against rights for gays wouldnt LOVE a genetic link for homosexuality? Oh, you'd see a dramatic reversal of the so-called christian interpretation of abortion laws if they could determine a fetus to be gay, believe it. You murderous bigots would be all over it, admit it, clown.
There been many studies showing that it is a chose...pros and cons...but use common sense.....it's a learned behavior,when a boy is born they urinate from the penis the rest is learnt
When I first urinated through the penis,that's the choice God or Nature made,the rest is learnt or taught but by nature,if lefted alone you'll be what nature made you to be.
@SuperProphet100 You communitcate like a very ignorant person. Do you know what the words mean? What about the concepts you're struggling to express here? It doesn't seem like it to me.
See,I told you earlier that you're mean spirited so I'll deal with you accordingly,you're a snotty nose punk who wants people to except shit packers.You're not on my level at all,i'm an educator,you're a computer troll that goes on sites you don't like because you don't have a life,if you don't agree with something don't listen to it...simple shit!
I don't know when we got to a place where homos & people alike is even consider to be normal.People try to do what's rite!
@SuperProphet100 This whole conversation has seen me being met by an ignorant, trolling, hateful person who then says they are an educator? I'm 44 years old, not snot nosed, and certainly don't need any approval from the likes of you, a garden variety bigot. I weep for the future of your pupils.. When you think your better than other people, you invite many catastrophes into your life, so enjoy them, OK? Educator?...."shakes head"
Look moron,other then being a loser in life choices,you're a "Troll" because you're on a site whinning about what you chose to listened to.If you want to pretend like i'll have a bad life go right ahead but I wouldn't hold my breath if I was you.I'm bless to be happy all the time,never feeling sad or down...never!
I notice you always speak of bad things to come for others,that's because you're a miserable person and I guess you want company,NOT!!
@SuperProphet100 Anyway, since you don't know what words mean, the concepts they convey, nor do you have any awareness of the argumentative value of anything that comes out of your big gob, I'm just going to keep you spinning, troll boy. Any more non-sequitors you'd like to offer up here as logical arguments? What a chode.
No,you don't understand words and their meanings that's why you don't know what a "Troll" is,it's you a person who goes around looking for shit to get into.I only go on sites and comment on it if I agree with the person i'm listening to.I'll be a fool to go on a KKK site and then whine about it when it's changes nothing.You sound like an uneducated "Google" fool!
@SuperProphet100 "I'll be a fool to go on a KKK site and then whine about it when it's changes nothing." You'll be a fool anyway, since fools always undermine their own logic. Are you serious, you wouldn't jam a KKK site? No wonder you're a despondent loser, with no life. You've lost before you've even begun, in any argument you engage in. And this is by your own admission, LOL! What a freaking reactionary. You should come when I whistle, like the dogs you so clearly emulate, turd.
@Dystopiologist I answered your question, if you're not pleased with the answer I gave then let it be known. Either you don't read replies to you're own questions, or your being disengenuous, either way if that's griping, maybe you should go to school, and learn what dialectics are, since you can't seem to follow the debate.
@Dystopiologist If you're that deluded - and you are not - please tell us: Where does morality come from? Morals derive from human ethics.
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Is there any higher moral authority in the universe than man? No, there is none. Logic, principles, morals, we are all (as a species) making it up as we go along. That's all there is, so we better cherish the opportunity to do the job that we are all presented with, do you agree?
@Dystopiologist By "major worldview" do you mean religion? As far as I understand tolerance as a virtue is attributed to Rabbi Hillel, who advocated it as a part of "midrash," which when boiled down means to take your understanding of scripture from all of the sources available. It's sort of an "inherited virtue" for that reason. Christianity in it's many guises doesn't recognize it at all often, just sometimes. Fundamentalists often get rid of that right away.....
@kern0099 You may be an atheist, but you still have a worldview. To wit:
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Man is an animal. Morality is a human construct, and the belief in a Creator is delusional (perhaps it is wish-fulfillment, or perhaps it is even a superstitious impediment to human evolution). Ultimately, man has no more inherent dignity than any other species.
@Dystopiologist Correction, man is a REASONING animal. The concept of dignity itself arises from man's ability to reason and derive ethical questions from his own experiences. Animals may emotionally intuit some kind of primacy, or dominance, for example (depending on the species of course) but dignity as a trait is left to man alone. We determine what it is, it's scope, and etc...
@Dystopiologist Where did this question come from? Something I said or are you philosophizing here? I'm not sure what you mean by objectivity either, but you seem to be getting into metaphysics and calling your reasoning objective? That would be a good value for reason, sure, objectivity is a virtue in that sense. Which would in turn lend it value. Your turn in the convo highlights the confusion over lending truth an objective status, which is what believing in god does...
No, I’m anything but confused on the subject of morality. There is an intersubjective consensus of what is moral and what’s not, as proved by so-called Christians and what parts of the Bible they recognize to be incredibly immoral and don’t adhere too. The “moral” code of the Bible was borrowed from religions which existed prior to the Bible as well, such as the Ten Commandments (which are hardly “moral” in the first place).
Morality is not a “thing”. It’s not on some list; it’s a word that we attach to a concept, and is partially depended upon the time and culture we live in (as if that’s not obvious), which is why Christians in America and other Western parts of the world don’t follow certain parts of the Bible.
Morality is a concept. And I don’t think there is a “higher authority”. It is incredibly obvious that god – especially the Biblical god – is nothing more than a myth created by Jewish goat herders.
There is no "standard" which exists outside of humanity because there is no evidence that god is a reality.
And there would never be a time when "everyone" would think that the Nazis were "moral" unless victims of Nazism somehow thought they were immoral enough to be killed or jailed for opposing them. Nazis would think they were "moral", of course.
You don't really have an "objective" standard either other than your own opinion. Nobody does. People who try to match their lifestyle with the Bible usually come to blows. Christians cannot agree with each other on drinking, dancing, premartial sex, abortion, gay marriage, killing people, etc. The Nazi example you gave, 50% of SS members were practicing Catholics. It's not as black and white as you think.
I’m not dodging the question. It’s a stupid hypothetical which is impossible. People who believe like you never take issues down to earth or reality. It would be like me asking you if your god told you to rape every woman and child would that make it “moral”. If everyone in Germany thought Nazism was “moral”, it still wouldn’t be moral to me.
To the people who believe it's moral it would be. What I’m telling you is a descriptive analysis of how the world works. There is no “list”, and there is certainly no evidence of these “moral truths” coming from a god. You are putting the cart ahead of the horse by suggesting that some mythical god authored what you consider “moral”, yet you’re not able to prove such a being exists.
I don’t see how I’m “chicken” when I answered it? If all you have are goofy ultra-hypotheticals about Nazis, that speaks volumes.
You’re unable to address the conversation when I bring it down to earth and ask you direct questions about the existence of this god which you claim morality comes from, or the moral “standard” you claim comes from the Bible.
Sorry, I don’t give monosyllabic answers to complex questions, especially when I disagree with the entire premise. You are treating morality like it’s a thing and not a word that we apply to a concept. If I, and everyone else thought that the Nazis were “moral”, I believe that I, and everyone else would be wrong.
If all you have are hypothetical questions, that just proves how weak your “argument” (if you can even call it that) is.
It’s not contradiction at all. What is considered “moral” in a society is subjective and changes from culture to culture and from society to society. I’m not saying whether t
I don't think Harry went home feeling victorious after that. I have yet to see a more compelling and convincing argument against "ignorance and bigotry". Certainly looking forward to it. Should be very empowering...especially for the black gay/lesbian community. Harry mentioned that the apostle Paul was privileged and educated, but so is he. Perhaps it's his status that undermines his credibility too.
Angel19403 2 months ago
(Rightfully dividing the word in it's proper context) Romans 1st Chapter describes an incident of straight men and straight women who turned their backs on God*** 21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.***23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
sunofabishop 2 months ago
When you read the story of David&Jonathan in the King James Version of the bible;it is abundantly clear that they had a special love for each other that was expressed like no other covenant of love betwn 2 individuals through-out the entire bible.
1Sam 20:30Then Saul's anger was kindled against Jonathan, and he said unto him, Thou son of the perverse rebellious woman, do not I know that thou hast chosen the son of Jesse to thine own confusion, and unto the confusion of thy mother's nakedness?
sunofabishop 2 months ago
Comment removed
sunofabishop 2 months ago
But such WERE some of u.... BUT YOU R WASHED....from homosexuality!! That's only one thing were saved from among many sins. Can I get a sanctitied witness!
kla7672 6 months ago
whenever someone has their own ideaology that has no scriptural base to it, you better be careful. no one is promoting hate, only the truth. if i commit ANY sin its wrong, but God does and will forgive me because all have and will sin.------but where people get into trouble is when they try to justify those actions
austindecatur 8 months ago 2
just kill all talk we love u but the bible say the wages of sins is death !
studmuscle84 9 months ago
White people are Evil!
wwnnn43 11 months ago
U CANT JUST ROLL OVER CAUSE THATS WHAT U WERE TAUGHT TO DO, THE BIBLE IS MISSING PLENTY THIS ISNT WHAT THE CREATOR INTENDED U CAN FEEL WHAT U WANT TOO BUT WE ALL DONT KNOW SHIT!!! ABOUT WHAT THE CREATOR WANTS WE WASNT THERE IF ITS WRONG TO U DONT DO IT JUST LIKE EVERYBODY CANT HAVE ENOUGH HEART TO KILL BUT SOME LOVE IT....
GEORGIPORGI1977 1 year ago
@GEORGIPORGI1977
Listen if you think the Bible is missing anything, how in the hell you know that its lost?
eightway1 4 months ago
What all of this means, my friend, is that all this picking at the Bible - which is actually a collection of 73 diverse books - really doesn't amount to beans. There must be, and IS, an authoritative interpretation of the Bible which makes just such a "cohesive whole".
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
I’m sure most Christians disagree with that (that the Catholic Church has the authority to interpret the Bible) and say that Catholics deviate and contradict what the Bible says about many subjects. I can think of a few examples off the top of my head. At any rate, I don’t take the Bible serious – the 73 book or the 66 book. The books were voted on, the authorship is unknown, its full of contradictions, scientific inaccuracies, and cruelties.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey, it doesn't make any difference what "most Christians" think.
I was raised in a New Age tradition, and studied practically every other form of Protestantism for about 40 years. After receiving a Master's degree and a Certificate in Advanced Catechesis (a 3-year program), I converted to the Catholic Faith about 4 years ago.
Authority actually is the key issue. Protestantism is fundamentally a rebellion against that authority (as is Atheism, for that matter). They are wrong.
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
Of course we’re wrong. We’re not the same religion as you, lol. Protestants would say that the Catholic Church was an apostasy, and atheist would say that we’re rebelling from non-reason. And I’m correct regarding the “infallibility thing”, as well as the whole morality issue. You didn’t prove there is anything outside humanity, so you lost that debate before you even started.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey You "proved" that there was something "outside" humanity yourself!
Didn't you say that even if EVERYONE agreed that Nazi genocide was "moral", it would STILL be wrong??
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
How is that something outside humanity when if it were not for the existence of humans, such concepts wouldn’t exist?
LMAO
Please, think before you say such things.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey Well, there you go contradicting yourself again - NOW, you're saying that that Nazi genocide it would be "moral"...
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
Haha, contradicting myself? What I’m saying is crystal clear and is non-contradictory, and you know it. I said that according to me, Nazism is immoral. It speaks volumes that ALL you have are non-realistic hypotheticals, and even using that, you cannot make your point. Like I said, you suck at this, lol (no offence). You are suggesting something immaterial yet you cannot prove something immaterial exists.
Sucks to be you, kiddo.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey Of course you don't answer. But check it out:
You are begging me to telling "prove" morality exists - and then pontificating about Naziism being "immoral" in the SAME post!
You still don't see a fallacy there?
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
I did answer. You just didn’t like the answer because you cannot refute it and it gets straight to the point. When did I ask you to prove morality exists?? Man, you have created so many strawmans it’s not even funny anymore. I asked you to prove that GOD exists, which is where you claim morality comes from.
I’m asking you very seriously, stop being dishonest. Beating you over the head is getting quite boring.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey
There are at least six "proofs" of God's existence; the "Argument by Morality" is one of them. In short, if there is any objective reality to things like good, evil, right, wrong, love, etc. - and if the universe has any ultimate justice or meaning at all, then there MUST be a God.
Do you disagree?
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
That’s one of the worst “proofs” I have ever heard. It’s not only putting the cart ahead of the horse by presuming god exists, there is just no connection between the two subjects. Also, if one can use your line of reasoning and borrow one of your ridiculous hypotheticals, all someone has to say is, “fine. There is no morality. So what? What does this have to do with god”.
Shitty argument. Use the cosmological or teleological one instead.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey Fine! Thank you for just laying it out like-a-man:
"There Is No Morality".
So, do the majority of us - who DO believe in a good and an evil, and DO believe in an ultimate justice, and DO believe that some things are just wrong regardless of what people think - a favor:
Stop "moralizing" against Christianity, and tell people this straight-up, let you be called a "hypocrite".
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
Thanks for proving that all you have are strawmen. Yes, yes, "morality" comes from a being which you cannot prove exists, and faxed a book full of laws that you know you consider immoral.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey
Well, Thank You for admitting that you are a-moral!
.
So - let's talk about "proof". What level of "proof" would do the trick for you?
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@AntonBatey
By the way, I wish to retract the last first sentence; I shouldn't say that you're "a-moral" - I apologize. You might be a better person than I; who knows (I still can make value judgements!).
.
But you don't believe in any ultimate morality, that's for sure. You DO understand that this is a tenet of Atheism. So, you may still be a very "good" person - but if you "moralize" about things and make value judgments, you still would seem the hypocrite.
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
So can I, since essentially, we have the same morals. You just believe that a god which you cannot prove exists gave them to you, when in reality, much of the moral codes of the Bible were taken from other cultures. In other words, no matter how much you may believe they're from god, they're really not. Authors of the Bible attached "god" to them to give it more credibility. And god knows everything, so "he" would know what proof would suffice.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey
You are equivocating. You have no right to apply the word "moral" to yourself, as you don't believe morality exists.
What you have is a set of "situational ethics", any of which could change, depending upon whether it suits you or not.
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
Yeah, call it whatever you want. lol.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey
Well then, why don't you just be honest with everybody? Why did it take us this long to get you to admit that you don't even believe in a right or a wrong, good or evil?
It's all in your own head, isn't it.
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
Because that's not what I'm saying.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey
Well, I know that you're smart enough to know that without a God, there is no morality.
"Outside human desires, there is no objective moral standard" - Bertrand Russell
"Without God, all things are permissible" - Fyodor Dostyevski
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
Yeah, okay, you’re stuck on a word “morality”. Regardless what you call it, the way I live and things I consider desirable are in accordance with the vast majority of humans.
I’m sorry, but you lose this argument, badly. You want to posit a god into the equation when you cannot even prove such a mythical being exists. Even if you believe that morality comes from god, you can’t prove it. The “morality code”, like the 10 Commandments were borrowed anyway.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey Note who is actually using "logic" and "reason" here! This is just standard philosophy, Anton!
Once again, if EVERY human brain held Nazi genocide to be "moral", it WOULD be to you - right??
You're just too chicken to answer clearly and unequivocally.
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
For example, the infallibility of the Pope. That’s fairly easy to refute, isn’t it? The “no eating meat on Sunday” rule which was just pulled out of the Pope’s ass, that’s ridiculous, isn’t it? Being a devout Catholic, there is a lot of bad history to stand behind. The Inquisition, the Reformation, etc.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey Regarding the infallibility thing, you are obviously ill-informed here - as with the other issues.
All of these are a separate topic. I'm happy to discuss any of them in due course - but the topic at hand is Scriptural interpretation. The Church that compiled and canonized the Bible has the authority to interpret the Bible.
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
Okay - I'll take that as an answer: If EVERYONE agreed something was moral, then it would be.
But let's just say that you ARE the odd-man-out, thinking that the Nazis were wrong. Who would you be to disagree with them? Their "experts", their "psychiatrists", their whole government?
Wouldn't you be less-"right" than they are? There would certainly be no objective standard to appeal to, right?
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
If everyone except me thought the Nazis were good, then I'm screwed.
There is nothing outside human minds that makes it "wrong". If there is, what is it? According to you, it's god, which you cannot prove exists, which is why I say you are presupposing something that cannot be remotely proven.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
Luckily, because what I consider as “moral” is not in accordance with Nazism, I would never be the odd man out. Again, if all you have are incongruous hypothetical scenarios, then you don’t really have an argument.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey
Why would you be "screwed" if you were the odd-man-out? If everybody in the world thought that wrong was right, that wouldn't make it "right", would it?
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
I would be “screwed” if I was the only person who thought Nazism was wrong because Nazis threw dissidents in a concentration camp and/or killed them.
And I don’t see your point about everybody believing at one time that the earth was flat. They were wrong, as was proven later by scientists. In fact, you shoot yourself in the foot with that example because the Bible indicates that the earth is flat.
Try harder.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey
Why would you be "screwed"? You'd still think that they were wrong, wouldn't you?
.
Would you respect their opinion?
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
I'd be screwed because Nazis jail or kill people they disagree with. If I thought Nazism was wrong and Nazis were in power, I'd be jailed or killed. And of course I would still think they were wrong, and I would not respect their opinion.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey Great. Of course you wouldn't respect their opinion - they would still be wrong, wouldn't they.
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
I also want to congradulate you on not responding to the flat-earth blunder you made, or your non-attempt to even prove the god you claim that these "moral laws" came from.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey
.
Okay - let's go just ONE PERSON more: Let's say that - hypothetically - you came around to their way of thinking (perhaps under heavy pressure, brainwashing or torture). Now, EVERYBODY agrees that genocide is okay.
.
That wouldn't make it right either, would it?
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
LOL, man, you suck at this, no offence. And this conversation is getting retarded.
I told you, if I thought so, I believe I'd be wrong. I also don't think it's respectful that you're ignoring what I'm saying.
Please grow up.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey
It's just basic philosophy, Anton.
.
So - Now you agree that there is an "objective morality"? A right and a wrong that transcends what all humans believe?
.
We're actually making progress.
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
We're not making progress. I've been repeating myself for about 5 days now and you have not been answering any of my questions or points. Instead of defending your book which talks about talking snakes, donkeys and so on, you're diverting the conversation. Now.....you're talking about "morality", and you believe that it comes from god......can you even PROVE this god exists?
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey, we've proven that you ARE confused about morality! We did that relatively quickly.
.
You just conceded that your, or anybody else's, "opinion" on an evil act wouldn't make it right. That's obvious.
.
But earlier, you said that morality was merely a human construct, and if everyone agreed that something was "moral", it would be.
.
That's an exact opposite - a 180 degree turn.
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
I've ben saying the same thing. That "morality" is not a thing, and only exists within humans. I think you are imagining things. I asked that IF there was something outside the natural world where morality came from (god), then prove it. If you can't, then everything you say is pointless.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey Oh. Now, you're back to your original position - If everyone said that Nazi genocide was "moral", then it would be. That doesn't make any sense, does it.
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
I've been saying the same thing. That I'd think it was wrong regardless, personally. And I never said that Nazism would be "moral" if everyone said it would be. Nice that you're lying though. Says a lot. As for Stalin and Mao, I'm not apologists for them, as I'm as far away from a communist as one can be. Communism is like religion though in more ways than not.
And this is now the, what? 7th time you ignored my points.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey
What happened here is that even though you gave the standard Atheist answer (i.e., morality is a 'human construct'), you intuitively KNOW that this isn't right.
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
That's not what I said. Go back and read. I said that morality is innate. What you consider, what I consider, and what most people consider. How you come to something outside humanity to decide is beyond me. You are acting very odd.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey "Morality is innate"???
That's a good one!! Look at the 20th Century, mate: Stalin (atheist) killed 20,000,000 people, and died peacefully in bed. Mao (atheist) killed at least this many. BOTH killed simply to stay in power, and for no other reason.
In Nazi Germany too, it was GOOD to kill a Jew.
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@AntonBatey
Oh, and when the Nazis were tried after the war in Nuremburg, they said the exact same thing as you: "Morality is a human construct; Who are you to judge us?"
Fortunately the Americans - with their JudeoChristian heritage - believed that some things were wrong regardless of what people think.
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
Like I said, you're really not good as this.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
So I said - I don’t know how many times now to you – that “morality” is a word applied to a concept that humans use to subjectively refer to things they value. Luckily, most humans agree that minimizing harm is “moral”, which I agree with. I say that it’s innate. You claim that it’s supernatural. What I’ve asked now at least 7 or 9 times is to PROVE that it came from god. You’re afraid of that, so you ignore it. I don’t blame you. You know you cannot defend a book that says snakes talk.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey Do you SEE what you're saying, friend?
You're saying:
1) "Nazi genocide is wrong, regardless of what people think"
and
2) "Nazi genocide would be right if everybody thought it was"
C'mon pal! Which is it??
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
When did I say that genocide would be right is everybody thought that? I said the exact opposite. I very clearly said that if I was the odd man out in Nazi Germany and thought it was wrong, that I believe I’d be right.
How could you have misinterpreted that when I stressed the issue? You aren’t being honest.
And now it’s the 9th time you ignored my point. Keep going.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@AntonBatey
I don't mean to belabor this, but it's worth going over again. You said:
"if I was the odd man out in Nazi Germany and thought it was wrong, that I believe I’d be right."
Let's bring it to today: That's 1 person saying that it's Wrong, and 5,999,999,999 saying that it's Right.
If you changed your mind, according to you, that would make it "right", wouldn't it?? Everybody would agree! You also said that morality was an entirely human thing.
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
Wow. I don’t mean to be rude, but I find it absolutely unbelievable that you do not comprehend what I’m saying. When did I EVER even remotely indicate that just because everybody believes something, that makes it true? I clearly said that if I thought Nazism was right, I’d be wrong. I also said that there is nothing outside humanity that should be imported in this subject because it’s not necessary. I asked you ten times now to prove it if there is and you simply ignore that part.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey
Oh, and 'sorry about the "pal" comment...I got snippy there...
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
No problem.
But seriously, how can you not see what I’m saying? I don’t think that there is anything supernatural, unless you call “thoughts” supernatural. What I’m saying is not that complex, is not ultra-philosophical, and is clearly an accurate description of how the world works.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey
Francis Crick - Atheist, and discoverer of the DNA molecule - said that "love" is just "chemicals". In other words, there really is no such thing as "Love" as an objective reality; it's merely an illusion.
But you're saying this same thing about Morality - it's just an illusion too. You do understand that this applies to everything we've always considered important - namely Meaning, Right, wrong, Good, evil.
Are they really just "chemicals"?
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
They’re products of the physical humans. You constantly are harping as if there is something outside us humans, and you keep ignoring that. If there is, they prove it. If you can’t, then this argument is at a stand-still and you just are saying you have blind faith.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey
*then
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey
The bottom line here, Anton, is that you're saying that really is no such thing as "morality". You know it, I know it, and anyone with a brain knows it.
All this talk about "morality" from an Atheist is just dishonest BULLSHIT.
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
No need to get angry, my good man. Relax.
And let’s suppose there is no such thing as what you call “morality”. So what? This has nothing to do with there being a god. The subject of morality is a diversionary tactic that usually Christians use to stay off the subject of the immorality of the Bible, the absurdities of the Bible and the archaic doctrines found in the Bible. This conversation is the proof since you ignored everything I asked you about it.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey
We can talk about the Bible. I'm Catholic, so I'm sure that you'll have plenty of questions :-)
In short, Christianity is NOT a religion of "the book", as the mere 500-year old Protestant tradition claims. It is a religion of an authoritative Church. The Bible CAME from this Church, so it has the authority to interpret it.
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@AntonBatey
1) The Church teaches that Scripture must be read "within the Living Tradition of the whole Church". That means that even though ultimate Truth doesn't "evolve", our understanding of it does. We DO have a better understanding of things than did the Hebrews 5,000 years ago.
2) Scripture must be a "cohesive whole". The Catechism of the Catholic Church says: "Be especially attentive to the content and unity of the whole Scripture", of which Christ Jesus is the "center and heart".
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@AntonBatey
P. S., "Everybody" thought that the earth was flat at one time - but that didn't make it flat, right?
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
That's right - according to you, if a culture says that something is "moral", then it is - right?
The answer to my question would then be "Yes", according to you, right?
Sheeshh!
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
UCLA, SFSU, mothatfucka :-)
kern0099 1 year ago
i love this discussion
r27neil 1 year ago
Mr. Knox is clearly blind. please pray for him. There are many like him in the world today who hold his same beliefs, there are on the way to hell, whether it be today or tommorow or whenever God calls them home. Please pray that they seek God before the fire of their lives is snuffed out. Blesings.
rss22 1 year ago
LOL @ religion! personally i dont give a crap what gay people do, and religious people can give all their personal power away to a fucking book. it's insanity
lifesabitchfuckit 1 year ago
Dr. Knox is under a reprobate mind.
ARTHEROPY 1 year ago
That was crazy too debate Gino at his church..Gino want debate any where else.Can u imagine hot head Gino and hot head T Smith debateing.
wesaved101 1 year ago
what kind of church is this..men on one side and women on the other.
Avil51 2 years ago
kern0099,
YOU must be talking about the gays...yes they are evil......thet are of there father(THE DEVIL).
SuperProphet100 2 years ago
I was talking about you, the slandering zealot. Sorry for the confusion :-)
kern0099 2 years ago
kern0099,
Ms Thing,if you was talking about me(and you was'nt ..LIAR)then your confused.I have a zeal for no man,but" THE MOST HIGH"i dont know of Jennings,but he rules with the truth he spoke...on this issue.You sound very bitter...are you gay?...did someone hurt you?...if so i apologize for them....OHH dont hide behind using the word christain..JESUS was'nt a christain and he never said anyone should be, i'm not,and Jennings said he not either...you might be a good person,just be truthful.
SuperProphet100 2 years ago
I was talking about Baptists, I'm an athiest who doesn't appreciate people bearing false witness against his nieghbors for sh*ts and giggles, :MRS. THING".
kern0099 2 years ago
kern0099,
Ms. or Mr. Thing,if you are an athiest,why are you using bibical term like"bearing false witness".....hummm....i think theres a little Baptist in you trying to get out.
SuperProphet100 2 years ago
@SuperProphet100 The devil is the one who hates love, the man in this video "preaching" against his neighbor, who mocks this neighbors' plea for hospitality at the gates of Sodom. He is YOU, idolator. Your evangelical "theology" will fall out of favor, as it has in the past, and you will be left with a scorched earth in the place of where your reward might have been. You are the slave master, you are the evil. Enjoy your earthly rewards, it's all you're ever gonna get, slanderous hater.
kern0099 1 year ago
@kern0099
I don't worship anything but the most high,so to call me a idolator makes you a fool.You're worshipping homosexuality in spirit and all the demonic fixings that come with that hideous lifestyle.We love thy neighbors in spirt aswell but homos are an abomination,so we suppose to either help them with their sickness or leave them alone,the same with other sins.My rewards are never ending,I live a great life with no sad deaths for my love ones and no suffering in this great evil times.
SuperProphet100 1 year ago
@SuperProphet100 I don't worship anything, which is one of the many differences between us. The most prominent difference is that you are a bigot, and a supplicant of ideas and concepts you can't fully grasp. That makes you an idolator. And believe me, idolator is the most generous word out there for you, you don't want to hear the more descriptive ones.
kern0099 1 year ago
@kern0099
If you want to be slick with your mouth then i'll say this,"there's nothing in common with us,nothing".You're a rebel against God and nature and just because you don't know you're worshipping the devil doesn't mean you're not.you're worshipping a lot more then you think,that why you're acting rude and mean spirited and childish yourself,you get into it with alot of people and you're wrong.Unlike fags i'm not scared of truth or "lies in your case",you can say what you feel to me,liar!
SuperProphet100 1 year ago
@SuperProphet100 You're going off the rails with your hate, and quite frankly it's un-American of you. Sad.
kern0099 1 year ago
@kern0099
America has always bend off rail,or you nuts?
America was build off of the blood of blacks and red people you fool!How off can you be?America is a sick country.
SuperProphet100 1 year ago
@SuperProphet100 Oh, I see! America is sick and you propose some sort of remedy? And this so called remedy includes reactionary, supercilious slander leveled at random strangers who call you on your bullshit.
"America was build off of the blood of blacks and red people you fool!
You'd like to discuss the mutual struggles of Americans against the construct of white supremacy then? Oh, that's the struggle of anyone who isn't gay, right? Or is that gay or white?..damn you're a fucktard, for real.
kern0099 1 year ago
These people are evil. Straight up phariasees, charlatans and bigots. Evil.
kern0099 2 years ago
Jennings Rules!
SuperProphet100 2 years ago
Rules what? the xtian faith as a carnival act? Maybe you're right.
kern0099 2 years ago
Leviticus 20:13...Nuff Said
lerontonge 2 years ago
This is guy sick.
Legionare1983 2 years ago
Dr. Knox stands in need of a doctor if he thinks he is justified in being homosexual. We know that when a man prefers a lie over the truth, GOD said he will send him strong delusion that he should believe a lie over the truth,because when the truth came he rejected it. There is nothing Dr. Knox can say to make what he is saying to line up with scripture. He is saying what he wants the bible to say and not what it actually is saying. GOD is clear in OT and NT that he is against homosexuality.
DaStr8Truth 2 years ago 2
he without sin cast the first stone hum
bennchapel 2 years ago
Does the Earth go Backwards around the Sun ? Homosexuality is Against Nature.. Gravity has its Law, what goes up must must comes down, Night will fall, the Sun will rise. Even without the bible, It is against Nature.. It is a spirit of deception.. Avoid it with wholeness..
vibesprofesser 2 years ago
Incorrect, homosexuality is very normal and has been around for millions of years. Some people and animals simply aren't strongly attracted to the "opposite" sex, nothing wrong with that. Ever heard of Dusk and Dawn? that's where gay people live on the human continuum.
So learn about this subject so people don't always have to educate you. Thanks.
Tnoy34rt 2 years ago
Homosexuality is sooooooooo abnormal God created adam & Eve not Adam & Steve, Not Eve and Yevette.
TheFirecogicuk 2 years ago 2
incorrect. everyone is gay to some extent, it's a biological fact. it's just on the edges of that spectrum, you'll find pure gayness in both sexes.
so educate yourself, don't be so ignorant.
gennica 2 years ago
Can you tell me what book I need to read concerning your comment because I dont like to be ignorant ignorance is not a bliss for me. Futhermore I never one in my life felt gay in any way I never had feel for a man, always for a woman if she has a pair of tight jeans on I not be looking away I,ll be say wow shes hot. If i see a man in tight pants I have no feeling for him whatsoever thats how I know there is not a bit of gayness in at least all of us. Just ask my girlfriend.
TheFirecogicuk 2 years ago
Just recently sexologists have confirmed that homosexuality is NOT a choice. Even google it. How is it agaisnt nature? What about heterosexuality, straight, is that a choice? No. You either like men, women, or both. Are you gay? No so how could you possibly know what it's like or know if its a choice or not. People like you are the reason why America's suicide rate increases significantly.
OnTheToiletBeyotch 2 years ago
That's nonsense. You do have a choice.
Dystopiologist 2 years ago
You have no scientific studies, which sexologists have and proved it isn't a choice. Just because you in believe in something strongly, does not make it a fact. GEt yourself out of denial. BAgging on this comment will only prove what I'm saying.
OnTheToiletBeyotch 2 years ago
You're wrong about that - there are plenty of studies showing that this behavior invariably comes from a damaged relationship with the parent of the same sex. It's well-known.
But you speak truly when you say "just because you believe in something strongly, does not make it a fact" - as much as this clown WANTS to think that he's following God's law, he isn't. That's painfully obvious.
Dystopiologist 2 years ago
And there have been many studies showing that it ISN'T a chose, how in the hell would you know which one's right? You believe what you want, there's no point in arguing over something that is endless.
OnTheToiletBeyotch 2 years ago
Because the gay lobby is very militant, and unfortunately very influential.
But they've been desperately trying to find some "genetic" link practically since the dawn of modern science. They've never found it, and they never will.
Dystopiologist 2 years ago
No. You only say that because what you feel, it's a choice. Are you gay? No. So how in the HELL could you possibly know if it's a choice or not?
OnTheToiletBeyotch 2 years ago
Those are the objective facts.
You seem to be making the same error Knox is - "I FEEL a certain way; therefore, my FEELING trumps Science, the Bible, Natural Law, etc."
So the whole world has to change to accommodate his feelings. Right?
Dystopiologist 2 years ago
I'm sorry that was so unrelated to what I just said, trying to run away from answering my questions?
OnTheToiletBeyotch 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Those are the objective facts.
You seem to be making the same error Knox is - "I FEEL a certain way; therefore, my FEELING trumps Science, the Bible, Natural Law, etc."
So the whole world has to change to accommodate his feelings. Right?
Dystopiologist 2 years ago
@Dystopiologist Read some scientific studies, starting with the Kinsey report. When you get to the Christian apologist mangled science reports, the ones used as a red herring to thwart free inquiry in the world, skip them. You live in a bubble, it's been carefully constructed to keep you ignorant, and it's working, boy that much is obvious. Your bible slanging colleges have kept you from your God given abilties long enough, why is your ability to reason so scary to you anyway?
kern0099 1 year ago
@kern0099
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Kinsey?! You mean the utterly a-moral, homosexual pedophile?! Kinsey was a monster.
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'Sounds like YOU are the one living in a bubble, carefully designed to fit your chosen "lifestyle".
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist This is the most absurd comment I've heard in this abnormally ignorant thread...You really think the professional bigots arrayed against rights for gays wouldnt LOVE a genetic link for homosexuality? Oh, you'd see a dramatic reversal of the so-called christian interpretation of abortion laws if they could determine a fetus to be gay, believe it. You murderous bigots would be all over it, admit it, clown.
kern0099 1 year ago
OnTheToiletBeyotch,
There been many studies showing that it is a chose...pros and cons...but use common sense.....it's a learned behavior,when a boy is born they urinate from the penis the rest is learnt
SuperProphet100 2 years ago
@SuperProphet100 When did you learn to be straight? Do you recall making the choice to be straight and not gay?
kern0099 1 year ago
@kern0099
When I first urinated through the penis,that's the choice God or Nature made,the rest is learnt or taught but by nature,if lefted alone you'll be what nature made you to be.
SuperProphet100 1 year ago
@SuperProphet100 You communitcate like a very ignorant person. Do you know what the words mean? What about the concepts you're struggling to express here? It doesn't seem like it to me.
kern0099 1 year ago
@kern0099
See,I told you earlier that you're mean spirited so I'll deal with you accordingly,you're a snotty nose punk who wants people to except shit packers.You're not on my level at all,i'm an educator,you're a computer troll that goes on sites you don't like because you don't have a life,if you don't agree with something don't listen to it...simple shit!
I don't know when we got to a place where homos & people alike is even consider to be normal.People try to do what's rite!
SuperProphet100 1 year ago
@SuperProphet100 This whole conversation has seen me being met by an ignorant, trolling, hateful person who then says they are an educator? I'm 44 years old, not snot nosed, and certainly don't need any approval from the likes of you, a garden variety bigot. I weep for the future of your pupils.. When you think your better than other people, you invite many catastrophes into your life, so enjoy them, OK? Educator?...."shakes head"
kern0099 1 year ago
@kern0099
Look moron,other then being a loser in life choices,you're a "Troll" because you're on a site whinning about what you chose to listened to.If you want to pretend like i'll have a bad life go right ahead but I wouldn't hold my breath if I was you.I'm bless to be happy all the time,never feeling sad or down...never!
I notice you always speak of bad things to come for others,that's because you're a miserable person and I guess you want company,NOT!!
SuperProphet100 1 year ago
@SuperProphet100 Anyway, since you don't know what words mean, the concepts they convey, nor do you have any awareness of the argumentative value of anything that comes out of your big gob, I'm just going to keep you spinning, troll boy. Any more non-sequitors you'd like to offer up here as logical arguments? What a chode.
kern0099 1 year ago
@kern0099
No,you don't understand words and their meanings that's why you don't know what a "Troll" is,it's you a person who goes around looking for shit to get into.I only go on sites and comment on it if I agree with the person i'm listening to.I'll be a fool to go on a KKK site and then whine about it when it's changes nothing.You sound like an uneducated "Google" fool!
SuperProphet100 1 year ago
@SuperProphet100 "I'll be a fool to go on a KKK site and then whine about it when it's changes nothing." You'll be a fool anyway, since fools always undermine their own logic. Are you serious, you wouldn't jam a KKK site? No wonder you're a despondent loser, with no life. You've lost before you've even begun, in any argument you engage in. And this is by your own admission, LOL! What a freaking reactionary. You should come when I whistle, like the dogs you so clearly emulate, turd.
kern0099 1 year ago
@kern0099,
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You come here and gripe - but you refuse to tell us what you believe yourself. Don't run away.
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Again: Where does morality come from? Is there no higher authority than man?
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist I answered your question, if you're not pleased with the answer I gave then let it be known. Either you don't read replies to you're own questions, or your being disengenuous, either way if that's griping, maybe you should go to school, and learn what dialectics are, since you can't seem to follow the debate.
kern0099 1 year ago
@kern0099 ,
I don't recall seeing an answer from you - and I confess, I don't follow this thread each day. Perhaps you sent it to another person?
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In any case, would you be so kind as to restate your answer?
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist this is a repost from earlier:
@Dystopiologist If you're that deluded - and you are not - please tell us: Where does morality come from? Morals derive from human ethics.
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Is there any higher moral authority in the universe than man? No, there is none. Logic, principles, morals, we are all (as a species) making it up as we go along. That's all there is, so we better cherish the opportunity to do the job that we are all presented with, do you agree?
kern0099 1 year ago
@kern0099 Thank you very much.
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'Sorry for interrupting your other conversation...
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist You're welcome.
"Sorry for interrupting.." No worries.
kern0099 1 year ago
@kern0099
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Oh, and No, I don't agree btw.
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist Nothing wrong with disagreements, as long we don't behave as if those who disagree exist for us to degrade.
kern0099 1 year ago
@kern0099,
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I agree with you. By the way, you do know that despite its misuse, Christianity is the only major worldview that is fundamentally "tolerant", right?
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist By "major worldview" do you mean religion? As far as I understand tolerance as a virtue is attributed to Rabbi Hillel, who advocated it as a part of "midrash," which when boiled down means to take your understanding of scripture from all of the sources available. It's sort of an "inherited virtue" for that reason. Christianity in it's many guises doesn't recognize it at all often, just sometimes. Fundamentalists often get rid of that right away.....
kern0099 1 year ago
@kern0099 You may be an atheist, but you still have a worldview. To wit:
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Man is an animal. Morality is a human construct, and the belief in a Creator is delusional (perhaps it is wish-fulfillment, or perhaps it is even a superstitious impediment to human evolution). Ultimately, man has no more inherent dignity than any other species.
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Is this correct?
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist Correction, man is a REASONING animal. The concept of dignity itself arises from man's ability to reason and derive ethical questions from his own experiences. Animals may emotionally intuit some kind of primacy, or dominance, for example (depending on the species of course) but dignity as a trait is left to man alone. We determine what it is, it's scope, and etc...
kern0099 1 year ago
@kern0099
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What does reason have to do with value? Value is simply something we create, right? It does not objectively exist, right?
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist Where did this question come from? Something I said or are you philosophizing here? I'm not sure what you mean by objectivity either, but you seem to be getting into metaphysics and calling your reasoning objective? That would be a good value for reason, sure, objectivity is a virtue in that sense. Which would in turn lend it value. Your turn in the convo highlights the confusion over lending truth an objective status, which is what believing in god does...
kern0099 1 year ago
@kern0099
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Where does "morality" come from?
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
Morality is innate, obviously. It didn't come from a book, and certainly not from the Bible, which is quite disgusting.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey, "Morality is innate"? What are you talking about? If that were true, there wouldn't be any crime, right? You're confused.
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
No, I’m anything but confused on the subject of morality. There is an intersubjective consensus of what is moral and what’s not, as proved by so-called Christians and what parts of the Bible they recognize to be incredibly immoral and don’t adhere too. The “moral” code of the Bible was borrowed from religions which existed prior to the Bible as well, such as the Ten Commandments (which are hardly “moral” in the first place).
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey You're not confused? That's great! Please tell me about morality, then:
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What is it? You seem to say "Consensus"; is that correct?
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
Morality is not a “thing”. It’s not on some list; it’s a word that we attach to a concept, and is partially depended upon the time and culture we live in (as if that’s not obvious), which is why Christians in America and other Western parts of the world don’t follow certain parts of the Bible.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey So, it's just a human concept? There's no "higher authority" than man, correct?
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
Morality is a concept. And I don’t think there is a “higher authority”. It is incredibly obvious that god – especially the Biblical god – is nothing more than a myth created by Jewish goat herders.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey Wow. No objective standard to look to - nothing outside the human imagination. So, answer this:
"If everyone - you, me, even the Jews - EVERYONE - agreed that what the Nazis did was moral, would it be "moral"?
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
There is no "standard" which exists outside of humanity because there is no evidence that god is a reality.
And there would never be a time when "everyone" would think that the Nazis were "moral" unless victims of Nazism somehow thought they were immoral enough to be killed or jailed for opposing them. Nazis would think they were "moral", of course.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
You don't really have an "objective" standard either other than your own opinion. Nobody does. People who try to match their lifestyle with the Bible usually come to blows. Christians cannot agree with each other on drinking, dancing, premartial sex, abortion, gay marriage, killing people, etc. The Nazi example you gave, 50% of SS members were practicing Catholics. It's not as black and white as you think.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey
You just dodged the question. Please answer:
"If everyone - you, me, even the Jews - EVERYONE - agreed that what the Nazis did was moral, would it be "moral"?
Answer the question.
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
I’m not dodging the question. It’s a stupid hypothetical which is impossible. People who believe like you never take issues down to earth or reality. It would be like me asking you if your god told you to rape every woman and child would that make it “moral”. If everyone in Germany thought Nazism was “moral”, it still wouldn’t be moral to me.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey
You're saying that even if all human beings agreed that something was moral, it might not be?
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
To the people who believe it's moral it would be. What I’m telling you is a descriptive analysis of how the world works. There is no “list”, and there is certainly no evidence of these “moral truths” coming from a god. You are putting the cart ahead of the horse by suggesting that some mythical god authored what you consider “moral”, yet you’re not able to prove such a being exists.
Do that, then we can talk about morality.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey
You're too chicken to answer it, and you're trying to cover yourself by saying that you personally think what the Nazis did was wrong.
But at the same time, you're saying "Yes". If everyone agrees that something is moral, it is - right? Just answer the question!
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
I don’t see how I’m “chicken” when I answered it? If all you have are goofy ultra-hypotheticals about Nazis, that speaks volumes.
You’re unable to address the conversation when I bring it down to earth and ask you direct questions about the existence of this god which you claim morality comes from, or the moral “standard” you claim comes from the Bible.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey, you said that you were "not confused" about morality, so I would like you to answer this question directly:
"If everyone - you, me, even the Jews - EVERYONE - agreed that what the Nazis did in WWII was moral, would it be "moral"?
I'll answer any question you wish, but you need to come clean on this one.
It's a "Yes" or a "No", Anton.
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
@Dystopiologist
Sorry, I don’t give monosyllabic answers to complex questions, especially when I disagree with the entire premise. You are treating morality like it’s a thing and not a word that we apply to a concept. If I, and everyone else thought that the Nazis were “moral”, I believe that I, and everyone else would be wrong.
If all you have are hypothetical questions, that just proves how weak your “argument” (if you can even call it that) is.
AntonBatey 1 year ago
@AntonBatey You don't see that you're contradicting yourself?
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If morality is just a "concept" and not a "thing", as you keep saying, then the answer would HAVE to be "Yes". Do you understand this?
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Yet, you seem to say "No" anyway, implying that morality is a "thing" (i.e., an objective reality).
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Which is it? Do you understand what is going on here?
Dystopiologist 1 year ago
It’s not contradiction at all. What is considered “moral” in a society is subjective and changes from culture to culture and from society to society. I’m not saying whether t