This going in spanish... Chavez el mejor presidente... por favor, no me maten de risa. Abran los ojos y vean lo que esta haciendo con su país. Dejen de seguir mentiras de un pseudo socialista que vive como un gordo capitalista. Si no hacen algo pronto Venezuela entrara en una peor miseria que la actual. Lamentable situación la que viven... Mis fuerzas a los hermanos venezolanos que saben la verdad.
Zach would punch the person who created this video. Retards he would for Chavez since Chavez is a socialist. This video is retarded, I can show this same video in every single country because every single country has violence as well. VIVA CHAVEZ!
yeah totally makes sense as seeing how there is no middle class i mean there is the poor and the rich which is the polititians but yeah your right i see how the poor is getting a share of the money oh wait yeah they are not
Chavez isn't a dictator, he is a selfish idiot following Castro's example. But it really doesn't matter WHO is in office the oposition is just as corrupt as the chavistas. Its a cultural problem. Real socialism wouldve started by raising the minimum wage 10 times. I had high govt officials there basically asking me to help them launder money and whatnot(which I didn't). And both political parties buy the votes of the citizens. so grow up and realize its the people not the politics.
a ROLEX WATCH which i'm really sure he didn't get it at the loco market or at goajiros as we call it in venezuela. Or why is minister Carreno asking for equality , and telling that capitalism suck when he is dressing up with a hugo boss suit and a Lousi Voutton tie? i don't know but it doesn't look like SOCIALISM...OR THE NEW SOCIALISM how chavez love to call it....!!!
so if chavez is the best president y is it then that the the PIB or GDP as americans' call it has decreased around 7.8% since he got on power, or y does venezuela has the highest homicide rate on latin america and is on the top 10 of the wolrd, or y the basic food basquet is almost 4 times more higher than the average income?while his family have many properties in the USA, the oil price have pased from 22USD(when he got in power) to 95USD and chavez is wearing
It is incredible the ignorance of all people who call Chavez a dictador. Chavez is the best presidente ever. Chavez y trying the overthrow the dictadorship of bussiness man and the oligarchy. Excuse my english, i am latin american and i speak spanish.
VIVA CHAVEZ!!!
NOTE: Why dont you read some information in english at the website called: hands off Venezuela?? Stop watching CNN and Fox pleasex
best ever? how is he a president that wont let go of power? thats giving billions of dollars to cuba and other countries but not his own country? how is he good if the country is one of the most violent city in the world? where there is no middle class? where anarchy basically exist? well i got to say someones head is stuck up his ass
@Venezolana558 I think it's a combination of both: the ignorance of the population and the rigging of the elections. Creo que es una combinacion de los dos: la ignorancia de la poblacion y la manipulacion de las elecciones.
But support for Chavez is declining, although he will attempt anything to remain entrenched in power. Pero la popularidad de Chavez esta en decadencia, aunque el tratara cualquier cosa para mantenerse en el poder.
@lvii22 alright ... i guess your right. because i know that you know for a faact that they modify all the results of all the elections. thats what the people who hate chavez say to make themselves feel better.
SO just to correct something about the title of this, Chavez is NOT a dictator . Look up the definition of dictatorships and then tell me if a dictatorship has elections.... just saying, not suppoortting him or anything(trust me), but it bugs me when people say hes a dictator, its dumb.
@BaldricksInferior Those are "fixed elections" all the people working at the institution in charge of the elections and vote counting are his subordinates...
Here in Finland we had a president for 21 years and he was elected and re elected. Chavez is been legaly elected too so he's not a dictator, he has the support of the poor people and venezuelan oposition is fragmented and more divided by selfish. Viva Chavez!
Give me a break loser. Let me guess, you hate the rich and would like to redisttribute wealth among all citizens. Keep on rewarding useless people with less and less private investors, wich by the way happen to be the ones providing jobs. Ignorant
@TLOMETO23 Let me guess, you're a pro Yankee not even a real american citizen who loves to kiss american ass and supports a cause that is not even yours, you still live with your mom, wanks everyday, you're bald and short, somebody who believes blindly in whatever fox news says and you still think there was wmd in Irak! Dumb ass who's the ignorant now. Keep on kissing your masters ass and bend over in front of a govt that's not even yours, go back and finish the dishes at your boss restaurant.
@bluntedblazed Where do you live again? OH Finland! who cares about Finland!... Typical reply of somebody who either is from that country and does not have a sense of what real life is, or somebody born in Latin America, Venezuelan perhaps, whose mommy and daddy "suffered" the harsh days of the past due to their ignorance. By the way that ignorance apparently has passed on to you. You probably are in your late teens or early twenties, listen to techno and thinks having sex with sox on is cool
@bluntedblazed Dont let your scholarship ago tiny, you may have to go back and inhabit your president's dumpster with all the unemployed wearing second hand red t-shirts while awaiting for the power and the water service to be restored. Hey, if it is that great why is it that you live in irrelevant Finland and not in the great nation that cant even feed their own....
@TLOMETO23 Que pobre, infeliz y desafortunado comentario, sencillamente debes navegar en un mar de envidia y descontento pedazo de pajuo, gente como tu son los que no dejan que la oposicion venezolana sea o luzca decente, aguantate a chavez pendejo! irrelevant Finland pff ya quisieras tu vivir aca hdp
@bluntedblazed It took u a month to come up with that come back? Probably because u have to go through a dictionary trying to find the translation for every word I wrote. Says a lot about your level of education. Cuss less and think more IGNORANT. PS: Ask your daddy to take u back to the land of the informal commerce where they kill u for a pair of fake NIKEs.
@TLOMETO23 Pobre ser humano, para no llamarte animal como deberias ser llamado "lame botas" How creative like I give a damn about Nike or whatever means global brands, that says heaps about u fatso/bald Like it or not Chavez will rule Venezuela for decades and decades thanx to ppl like you ! yes you fat ignorant! keep replying, it really amuses me, Pobre infeliz.
@bluntedblazed I see U finally found the dictionary. Although I think U still can't find the way to put two concise sentences together. I guess the Gran Mariscal de Ayacucho has its flaws.
@TLOMETO23 andate a lavar platos y deja de criticar, si en verdad estas en yankeeland quejate alla y deja de hacer de guerrero de teclado maldito guevon, como te dije de seguro gordo. calvo. enano. y vive con su mami todavia Imbecil ahora es que hay Chavez pa rato btw me cago en tu madre y en tus muertos
los mas bizarro de todo es que si haces un ejercicio basado en el 2 mas dos son cuatro, 2.300 contenedores en linea a 20 metros cada uno son 46 kilometros de contenedores llenos de comida extranjera comprada con el dinero de TODOS los venezolanos pero utilizados para crear zozobra por un grupo de sinverguenzas corruptos... dame dame todo el power para que te volvamos verga....
Como la canción de Molotov... dame dame todo el power para que te demos en la madre... en venezolano decimos para volverte verga... eso es lo que ha hecho este dictador llamado Hugo Chavez... lo mas bizarro son los 2.300 contenedores de comida importada acaparados por el gobierno en las aduanas para crear escasez y luego culpar a la oposicion de acaparamiento y expopiar, es decir ocupar ilegalmente y a la fuerza las empresas productoras de alimiento privadas... estan viendo cual es el juego
@JohananRaatz I wonder if you really mean this. If you do then you will have to concede that the American people need to be overthrown. For the American people have time and again voted into power governments that have plundered the resources of other countries, exploited the poor - both of their own and Third World countries, funded and supported puppet dictatorships, violated civil and human rights... need I go on? Would you like to rethink your position?
@archdeaconj No we haven't "plundered" anything. We acquired it on the free market. And no, corrective interventions by the CIA or the NED do not count, because those were necessary to keep the free market free in the first place.
@JohananRaatz So you think it's perfectly acceptable for the US to overthrow democratically elected governments simply because they are socialist or opposed to opening up the country's resources to multi-nationals? You think it's morally justifiable for the US to manoeuvre into power and fund and support ruthless dictators just so long as they play the neo-liberal capitalist game?
@JohananRaatz. Hitler was democratically elected, that's right. What's your point? So Hitler wasn't a dictator. Even if Hitler had been a dictator, how does that say anything about Chavez? Are you just saying that it's possible to be democratically elected and still be 'a bad man'? Is that all you're saying?
Except both Hitler and Chavez used their power for an agenda to violate people's rights. If you don't believe so then I will point out that he summarily stole ExxonMobil's oil a while back. This in turn caused the gas prices to rise at home which in turn stole from me.
@JohananRaatz Well, Chavez didn't steal the oil, for it was Venezuelan oil. What he did was kick out ExxonMobil and nationalise the oil so that instead of swelling the profits of the oil companies it was used for the benefit of the people. This is what socialist states do. Venezuelans not only benefited from improved welfare across the board but got cheap oil to boot. In the US, by contrast, the price of oil is determined by what the market will take to maximise profit.
@archdeaconj Part of the natural function of a government is to protect its citizens rights -these include property rights. When another country violates these rights the government has an obligation to intervene and protect those rights. So yes, it is perfectly fine to keep the neoliberal order in place -because "neoliberal" is just code for "I want what someone else has and I don't like the system that is preventing me from stealing it.
@JohananRaatz A government has a right to protest its citizens' rights? Yes. Including property rights? Certainly. But it is OK to change another government's socio-politico-economic system so you can effectively steal what they have? Are you kidding? Are you saying that there are fundamentally no rights, only the law of the jungle?
@archdeaconj "But it is OK to change another government's socio-politico-economic system so you can effectively steal what they have?"
Back up here, socialism is the initial change in the socio-politico-economic system here. Remember all of these countries started out capitalist -it's what enabled us to do business in them in the first place. And transactions on the free market =/= stealing by definition.
As for law of the jungle, don't complain socialists were the initial aggressors here.
@JohananRaatz You said it's acceptable to 'intervene' (notwithstanding all the bloodshed that may entail) to keep in place the neoliberal order and you define 'neoliberal' as a system allowing you to steal what someone else has. How is this not the law of the jungle? And if this is what you believe then you have no need to justify overthrowing a socialist government by saying capitalism predated it (which is no justification, anyway).
@archdeaconj No, I said that it wasn't a system allowing me to steal what someone else has. It's a system that prevents others from stealing what we have.
@JohananRaatz So you're saying it's OK to intervene to keep in place the neo-liberal capitalist system because it prevents others from stealing what's yours. So when the US brought down, say, the socialist government of Chile, and installed a repressive military dictatorship, how was Chile stealing from the US? Was it not the unelected Pinochet, opening up the country's resources to the multinationals, stealing from the Chilean people - as well as taking away their freedom?
@archdeaconj So you see, the US is perfectly willing to bring down a government elected by the people in order to install a puppet dictator who will play the game with respect to US interests (and there are many more examples I could give apart from Chile). Now you say, 'if the people vote to take away others' rights, then [they] need to be overthrown.' Therefore, by your own admission, the government of this rogue state - by which I mean, the US - needs to be overthrown.
That was the Cold War, we had to save the world from the evils of communism. We never liked Pinochet, he was fucking scum, but we had to do what was best for everyone. Besides he's gone now isn't he?
@AmericanBadass44 Well Thatcher was genuinely friends with Pinochet when both were old - she helped him evade a war crimes tribunal. Yeah, I know Thatcher was a British Prime Minister (I'm a Brit) but I just thought I'd get that in. There are lots of other examples I could give, I just chose Chile as one example. Whether it's 'best for everyone' is a separate issue. My point was it happens all the time: El Salvador, Guatemala, Hawai, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran coming up...(I'm out of char's).
In case you haven't seen the news, Chile is today the most prosperous country in Latin America. It was their radical free-market policies that lifted up the poor. Socialism always has been and always will be a formula for injustice and stagnation.
@glovisy Now this is interesting. I haven't actually been following events in Chile in the news so don't know much about it. So Chile adopted a free market policy, yes? They abandoned a socialist-type economy and went for free-market capitalism and the average standard of living increased? Are you sure that the standard of living of the poor increased?
@archdeaconj "saying capitalism predated it (which is no justification, anyway)"
Actually it is, because if capitalism existed first then the only way to transition from capitalism to socialism is to STEAL large amounts of PRIVATE PROPERTY so that you can then redistribute it. Since theft is WRONG, socialism taking the place of capitalism would also be wrong. Hence since socialism/communism/ is the only alternative to capitalism, capitalism would be justified as the correct system.
This is flawed logic. It's akin to saying that any time a company raises the price of it's product it is stealing from you. In actuality, the reason your oil prices were low was because the US stole and plundered the resources of, among other countries, Venezuela. So, in reality, your the one who has been indirectly stealing from Venezuela.
@BlindPacemaker By definition stealing and plundering does not occur on the free market when corporations have private property rights to what they are selling. Last I checked ExxonMobil had private property rights to those assets.
Um no, it was ExxonMobil's oil that also happened to be in Venezuela. Now if ExxonMobil wants to make a profit off of their own oil there is nothing at all wrong with that and Chavez does not have a right to tell them what to do with their own stuff.
look here u dumb ass loser u keep saying CIA but the fact is you said it , ur the one who called fmln terrorist , if ur going by what the cia says that means u dont have a mind of your own secondly on pinchoet , he took away the peoples president a man who was fighting for the people and giving the people what they wanted and pinchoete did was make chile a disgrace and have a huge population in poverty and killing innocent people my old friend died because of pinchoete so go fuck urself
As I said before I do not like the fact that they were using death squads and such. It's just that I don't like the other option even more so. The Kirkpatrick doctrine states that when you have an authoritarian regime vs. a totalitarian communist one it is often wise to support the former against the latter.
Crazy. Get into a conversation with a Marxist over simple facts and they throw a massive temper tantrums. I've never seen such overgrown crybabies in my life.
so its okay to kill many innocent people in iraq its okay to steal natural resource of another country and its good to have a oil line which isn't on your land so its okay to have free trade and give them shit and yet get great things in return.. typical american loser
lol u jus don't get it ..... u just hate it that someone proved you wrong ... and everything i'm speaking about is the truth ..... hahahhahha later loser
really i have family there ... and they tell me things haven't been better lol hummm its been what almost 10 years and its only been great ... well not great for the rich lol hahah loser know ur fucking facts
They are obv falling foul of his charm offensive just like ordinary Germans did for Adolf Hitler and the same for Stalin, but as we all know they were bad apples, did a few good things economically i suppose(especially Hitler) but they were also tyrants, but im guessing u wont agree with me.
okay he has no plan on killing a certain race group lol people talk about his pics with people from arbic countries but what bout the people like pope john paul the 2nd or bill clinton .... u wanna then now go with what if ... then truly you are an idiot.... because look at the queen she has how many countries with her ... and owns alot of islands but shes not there trying to kill people and shes been alive for what 100 years lol
So I have a question. If CIA's and the NED's policies of trying to coup Venezuala for stealing our oil were bad then why is it that couping other commie states for the same reason often brings about economic prosperity in America?
After Reagan stomped out the communist terrorists in Latin America in the 80's Clinton was able to sign free trade agreements in the 90's which brought about economic growth here.
I don't see what kind of an idiot would be against doing this. It's obviously good.
so making 5 dollars a day is alrite, taking away the countries resources is fine , and helping build a constitution which don't u think should only be for the people living in that country and not get help from the usa , honestly buddy you are going into a wild fire and your going to get stommped TRUTH IS ALL OF LATIN AMERICA WAS FIGHTING THE HIGHER CLASS AND USA IN LATIN AMERICA BECAUSE THEY KNEW THEY WERE GOING TO SCREW THEM OVER MY FAMILY WAS PART OF THE CIVIL WARS SO DON'T FUCKING START
Yes and I'm American so you were FIGHTING US to try to STEAL OUR PROPERTY!
"so making 5 dollars a day is alrite"
Yeah it's punishment for theft. If you had spent half as much money on building your economy as you had funding socialist kleptocrats you wouldn't be making 5$ a day!
"honestly buddy you are going into a wild fire and your going to get stommped"
Nah I think we did that nicely during Reagan's time.
"DON'T FUCKING START"
You started it with your anti-American hate speech.
tell me what property are we trying to steal , we live on our land and live our lives U WERE THE ONES THAT CAME TO LATIN AMERICAN I NEVER ONCE SAW IN THE HISTORY BOOKS THAT IT SAYS US OWNS EVERYTHING U FUCKING LOSER seconldy THE REASON WHY WE MAKE 5 DOLLAS A DAY IS BECAUSE THE US MADE IT THAT WAY BUT NOW ITS BEING CHANGED THANKS TO MEN LIKE CHAVEZ AND IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY US FAILED IN EL SALVADOR FAILED IN NICARAGURA FAILED IN VENEZUELA FAILED IN SO MANY AND WILL FAIL IN HONDURAS
So? That doesn't mean we can't buy anything in Latin America.
"WE MAKE 5 DOLLAS A DAY IS BECAUSE THE US"
No, you're incredibly ignorant. The FREE MARKET made it that way. Therefore it's fair.
BTW, I'm not a 'redneck' for understanding that it is in my rational self-interest to defend my economic interests. Many neoconservative and Randian intellectuals understand that as well, and they aren't 'rednecks.'
no the free market didn't make it that way if that was the case then the canada and the us would be in the same boat but its not is it , look u dumb ass loser i already proved u wrong in many other topics and ur just making urself look like a typical right wing extremist ,but u know what why dont u try to survive in any 3rd world country and see if you will say life is fair but thanks to socialist countries in latin america the days of the past are finally dying !!! and that must eat u up inside
"it seems to me u love the poor being poor and rich get richer"
In relation to the rest of America I'm middle class not rich. In relation to the rest of the world I'm rich. That being the case it is in my rational self-interest to pursue policies that make the rich (as defined when compared to the rest of the world) to get richer -thereby enabling me to buy a nice car and other things I want.
anti american lol how am i anti american lol because i stand for resources in latin america to stay in latin america! , or to see latin american people stay in their country and have their kids get the right education just like the us or canada , but it seems that ur just a plain old redneck who believes everything belongs to the states GUESS WHAT U FUCKING LOSER ITS NOT LIKE THAT now u guys are the sinking ship and no where to go lol hahaha
"i stand for resources in latin america to stay in latin america!"
They are there. We own them there though.
"but it seems that ur just a plain old redneck who believes everything belongs to the states"
Where did I say that? What I said was that what we PURCHASED in Latin America belongs to us. THEREFORE it belongs to us. Why can't you get that concept through your thick skull?
i have read the news , i read how the elections were a fraud where only max 48% and that number is actualy going down as the numbers come in v AND THERE IS VIDEO EVIDENCE AS WELL unlike most supporters of the coup they claim its 63% but the video evidence shows otherwise , secondlly so you think its okay that higher class people have the right to steal and sell what the poor have , no that isn't fair anyone with a brain knows that , it seems to me u love the poor being poor and rich get richer
Ok then tell me, who won in the consitutional dispute, Zelaya or Micheletti? And another thing. Please define "coup" for me and specify if coups are constitutional or unconstitutional in nature.
"okay that higher class people have the right to steal"
Where did I say that? I didn't say that. I don't have a problem with the rich becoming richer if they do it by buying and selling. I never said I am ok with it if they are stealing and selling.
look ur not latino u don't know the latin history u should u stop and the whole world knows it was a coup a coup is when military power is used , simple as that
Just because I'm not latino does not mean I don't have vested interests at stake.
"and the whole world knows it was a coup"
No, most people understand it wasn't. On facebook the largest Honduran crisis related group was anti-Zelaya with 10,000 HONDURANS as members. And even Obama has reversed himself on the situation.
"a coup is when military power is used"
That's a shoddy definition. You ignored my question: Are coups constitutional or unconstitutional in nature?
okay how many people in honduras do you believe own a computer because over 65% are poor and a higher % is just a lil above it , and who do you thank for that , the united states and the wealthy class mr.zelaya was changing that and the higher class didn't like it , ur not latino u don't know the history u only know what media tells you , please tell me why there were so many civil wars in central america and buddy once military force is used its a coup simple as that
No they don't get to make a new constitution if it isn't based on objective principles. Then it doesn't matter what they want -because they are wrong by definition. If you violate objective principles you are wrong.
And I hate to break it to you but just because something isn't an anarchy where the mob get's to make up laws willy-nilly doesn't mean it's a dictatorship. "The people" are not above the law. It doesn't matter if there are a whole bunch of them.
you see how ur not making sense here , first of all the people have the right to change their constitution because they are the ones going by it , secondly u talk about how the people aren't above the law SO EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THE FUCKING COUP GOVERNMENT IS AND BROKE THOUSANDS OF HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS WHICH IS ALREADY REPORTED your not making sense first u say the people aren't about the law but it seems ur okay with coup members are FUCKING IDIOT
and if your going to justify what happen with mr.zelay and say it was with in the constitution let me remind you article 102 which indicates that u can not send a honduras citizen to exile , or how bout the thousands of human rights that were violated or how about the curfew which wasn't even approved by congress only roberto ,or how bout the video proof that is out that shows the much needed evidence that the elections were a fraud
but here let me help u with ur argument only thing ur going to say about mr.zelaya was he was trying to extend his term limit , which he already in many occasions said he wouldn't secondly it would never happen in his term do you know long it would take to make that happen and it would fall under the new elections not this one he wanted to ask the people if they wanted a new constitution which in a recent poll shows over 65% do , why do u think many groups such as womens and african honduras
want a new constitution , yo honestly should shut up and really stop because u don't know a damn thing of what is going on , but hey don't worry maybe one day some stronger nation will and take what the us has oh wait its happening already with china .... but it will get worse , you see u have nothing only thing ur showing is how stupid u sound when u say its your property no the people never gave u the rights only high class did , and its not your oil its the people and chavez has done it
"its your property no the people never gave u the rights only high class did"
"The people" do not need to give us any rights. Rights do not come from the collective.
If you don't like to admit that the upper class has rights as well that can't be taken away by the mob, then you can't complain when the upper class treats you in kind -like with what happened after Zelaya was ousted. I'm not saying I agree with what happened afterwards, only that if that is your perspective you can't complain.
oh and by the way regan didn't do shit to us, we fought back , latin america won most of the war big example EL SALVADOR and if u try to argue that u will look like a fool CAUSE I WAS IN EL SALVADOR MY FAMILY IS PART OF THE FMLN so don't try to fucking start u fucking loser
"or how bout the thousands of human rights that were violated"
When their is a threat to the stability of the state, extra-legal powers are required. This is what is called a "state of exception." This concept is well known in political philosophy. I'm not saying that everything done in a state of exception is good, only that it is very different than engaging in extra-legal activity to undermine the government.
stop trying to defend the fact coup and them breaking the constitution, here u are contradicting yourself frist you say people have to obey the constitution but yet here ur saying oh its okay cause thsi is happening but yet the constituion has so many flaws , so u lost this one
No I haven't lost the argument. You just haven't been reading up on your political philosophy. Read Carl Schmitt on the "state of exception" concept.
First of all this was a hypothetical. I am not sure the constitution was violated in the first place by simple police brutality.
SECONDLY, behaving in an extra-legal fashion to defend a regime or a constitution is different in nature than doing the same to subvert it. It's the same principle as a policeman speeding to catch a speeder.
eXCUSE ME . WE ARE NOT TERRORIST !!!! HOW THE FUCK DARE YOU SAY THAT SHIT . DO U KNOW HOW MANY INNONCENT PEOPLE DIED DUE TO THE CIVIL WAR U FUCKING ASSHOLE DON'[T U FUCKING SAY SHIT LIKE THAT EVER AGAIN THAT IS DISRESPECTFUL TO ME MY FAMILY AND MY FRIENDS AND HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS . SO YOUR SAYING WE FIGHTING FOR FARMERS AND THE POOR ARE TERRIORIST GO FUCKING URSELF YOU FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT DON'T U FUCKING SAY SHIT U DON'T KNOW GOT IT
"DO U KNOW HOW MANY INNONCENT PEOPLE DIED DUE TO THE CIVIL WAR U FUCKING ASSHOLE ."
Yes and their blood is on your hands for aiding and abetting the FMLN. This civil war would never have happened had the communists not engaged in terrorism.
"SO YOUR SAYING WE FIGHTING FOR FARMERS AND THE POOR ARE TERRIORIST GO FUCKING URSELF"
No, you are terrorists because you tried to overthrow the government with violence.
Oh also: Fuck-Fuckety-Fuck-Fuck-Fuck. See? I can spout off like that as well. :D
look here u fucking retard of a star wars fan , you have no clue what latin america is about u don't know tis history u never lived there and probably never touch a girls lips besides your ugly ass mom you have now insulted me and millions of salvadorians IF FMILN were TERRIORIST then why did the majority of people vote for them in power in the last el salvador electiosn u fucking asshole! explain to me this u fucking brain tell me why there was a civil war in el salvador ! PLEASE ANSWER ME THAT
Ok fwucking asshow! The people voted them in because they were irresponsible just like the Palestinians that elected Hamas. And your question makes no sense. You assume that just because an organization can hold power means they aren't terrorists. That's a non sequiter.
The civil war started because the FMLN wanted to overthrow the government that's why so they could implement socialist kleptocracy and they rallied "the pimples" against the government.
did u know that american soldiers raped innoncent women in el salvador , do u know what the fucking war was about . no we were fighting for our land our people . stealing land and owenership from hard working farmers and killing priest thats what your about if u call fmln terrorist you justify killing priest and kids who are un armed BUT BOTTOM LINE WE FUCKING WON AND FMLN IS IN POWER TO NOW GIVE FREE MEAL TO KIDS FOR SCHOOL BUT HEY THATS TERRORIST RIGHT ! U FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT
Now, after reading the timeline on this I think I might see why you are angry. Unfortunately the regime in power was also rather brutal. However it is also clear here the the FMLN started it all. On the one side we have a military junta on the other a communist regime. In cases like these I will defer to the Kirkpatrick doctrine: when forces into this choice authoritarian regimes should always be supported over totalitarian ones. Anything is better than communism.
hERE U FUCKING JACK ASS THIS IS THE TRUTH THE GOVERNMENT STARTED THE WAR FIRST IT WAS PROTEST BY THOUSANDS BUT WHEN THE GOVERNMENT HATED THIS THEY STARTED USING MILITARY FORCE THEY HAD A DEATH SQUAD WHICH KILLED BISHOP ROMERO WHICH MADE MATTERS WORSE AND THE WAR WAS GETTING MORE N MORE DEADLY I HAVE NO CLUE WHERE THE FUCK U GET UR FACTS BUT U WERE NOT THERE AND EVEN IN BOOKS IT WILL SAY THE GOVERNMENT STARTED BY TAKING LAND OF FRAMERS BUT HEY U THINK ITS FAIR U FUCKING BITCH ,
FIrst of all, calm down and stop throwing a temper tantrum. Now let's analyze this.
"EVEN IN BOOKS IT WILL SAY THE GOVERNMENT STARTED BY TAKING LAND OF FRAMERS"
Ok, what exactly was going on here. Somehow I suspect this is open to interpretation. Why was the government taking land from the farmers? What was their reason?
"FIRST IT WAS PROTEST BY THOUSANDS BUT WHEN THE GOVERNMENT HATED"
Ok like I said just because I don't like the commies doesn't mean I like the other guys much either.
look here u piece of shit star war loser , government were taking land from farmers so they can get the profit from coffee sugar canes and other things , secondly the war really started when AND THIS IS A FACT government death squad were killing protest leaders one big example is the bishop romero, why am i pissed because ur talking shit that u dont know so really if u don't have a clue of who they are and the history then shut ur fucking mouth
no u jack ass , the land belonged to the people , the government were leaving farmers without running water and electricity , Roberto D'Aubuisson who made up many death squads in el salvador was responsbile for the killing of the bishop which is a fact because they found the documents to prove it , but what really pisses me off is that the US sent 7 billion dollars to support these death squads WHICH AGAIN IS A FACT! anyway u try u will look like a fucking moron if u support this
As I said before I do not like the fact that they were using death squads and such. It's just that I don't like the other option even more so. The Kirkpatrick doctrine states that when you have an authoritarian regime vs. a totalitarian communist one it is often wise to support the former against the latter.
they wanted those people to die to steal there land but hey ur oikay with that because in ur opinion they were dictators and shit like that but the truth is FMLN fought for those people who couldn't fight back , they fought for the people and even though u think they are terrioist which they aren't they helped the people of el salvador and they are not doing anything terrorist like at all so go to hell u kkk member and stay there u and pinchoet will be happy togeather
That's because the pimples had elected a socialist who was working with the Soviet Union. They only voted for Allende because he was going to bribe them by redistributing other people's wealth. If "the people" vote to violate ones rights then "the people" need to be overthrown.
"pinchoete did was make chile a disgrace"
Says who? Allende was a disgrace just like Chavez and Castro are today.
ur a lost fool , its the governments job to look at their country , when u are president everything is about government not just peoples rights , and if your talking about peoples right then pinochet is the worse man u can defend because he destroyed so many peoples right
No, that was due to intelligence failures. As it turns out Saddam was trying to bluff having WMD's to keep his neighbors at bay. You know Sun Tzu's if you are weak pretend you are strong thing. He wasn't expecting though that we'd go in after that.
If you're thinking it was a conspiracy to go in the Silbermann-Robb report has since debunked that.
You are completely misinformed about this. Saddam was our greatest ally (go to any library and you will see people like Rumsy shaking his hand, and signing win-win deals, etc.). Iraq was the closest thing to the US compared to other Middle Eastern countries. What Saddam did, was tell the US that he was going to charge us more for Iraqi oil. So we murdered him, invaded the country, and we now, again, control the Iraqi oil.
Pinochet straight out murdered and tortured up to 60,000 great revolutionaries, whose only crime was to speak against neocolonialism, and support their murdered, democratically elected president, Allende. The CIA ensured that over 3,000 US business firms would not lose their control in Chile. To do this day, it is US corporations that control much of the resource wealth of Chile (and Peru, but things are changing in Bolivia, Vz, and Ecuador...Brazil, too).
"Pinochet straight out murdered and tortured up to 60,000 great revolutionaries, whose only crime was to speak against neocolonialism,"
You mean try to subvert the government so as to violate people's rights? (theft violates people's rights) I'm not saying he was desirable only that he was more desirable than the alternative.
"The CIA ensured that over 3,000 US business firms would not lose their control in Chile."
Well of course. They wanted to have control over their own private property. There is nothing wrong with that. Allende and "the people" were trying to steal that property.
"To do this day, it is US corporations that control much of the resource wealth"
So? It's theirs isn't it? Besides that's good. It brings net GDP into the country which is good for our economy.
Yes yes but what happened in between the time that they owned it and the time that the government took it? Surely there was something else that happened to cause them to do this.
"the government were leaving farmers without running water and electricity"
Turning them off? Or was this a matter of not having enough infrastructure?
gees man go to hell , you like a man who killed innocent people go to fucking hell you racist bastard , the world u live in is a fairy tale you truly are a kkk member u think a man saved chile when chile his popluarity was over 75% pinochet made chile disgusting with a huge poverty population and its not til now that the number has gone down thanks to leftest government , WHICH IS A FACT, and no the government didn't give them any running water or electricity because they choose too
Racist bastard? So promoting capitalism is "racist?" Methinks you need to take a logic class. Ever heard of the affirming the consequent fallacy?
You're view of Pinochet is one sided. Pinochet defended the free market against communism in Chile and got rid of all of the Marxist terrorists in the country.
The government's responsibility is to protect people's rights, not address poverty.
"and killing innocent people"
First of all like I said I don't like these people I just favor them ruling in situations like this so we don't get the worse guy.
Secondly, Pinochet was known for surgically killing marxists radicals and terrorists who were trying to subvert Chile. Most of the people he killed were not innocent.
"my old friend died because of pinchoete so go fuck urself"
I see. I can see why you might be especially emotional about this then. But remember communist regimes have a far worse track record on human rights than ones that are simply authoritarian.
More people would have died with Allende just like far far more people have been killed by Castro than killed by Pinochet. (by an order of ten)
Out of curiosity, what may I ask was your friend doing in Chile?
my friend was just protesting , and ur justifying that , to kill people like him because they didn't believe in the government he was more a dictator then anyone else so are u telling me 70% of chile population who know he was a evil dictator are wrong ?!?!?! your thinking too much like a typical american tell me this u probably think iraq has W.O.D.
In so far as they had supported a worse guy before him yes. Pinochet killed between 10 and 30k people. Communists on average kill 10 times that amount. I'm sorry about your friend, but the fact of the matter is, had we not supported the bad guy the worse guy would be there killing even more. This is unfortunate but that's how it is in foreign policy often times.
okay so under salvador no one died, he was friends with castro and because of that he was marked .... thats fucking stupid no one died under his few years as president but what he did to was help the country in health care education milk for kids in school and in poverty free milk frooze all prices and still was able to raise salary , yeah thats a evil man ur a fucking clown
lol gees i think thats 2 debates that i destroyed u in lol hahahhaha gees ur a fucking clown take some advice and don't talk shit about latin america and especially about shit u don't have a clue about if u weren't there or lived there or experienced it then dont say shit got it thank u
Motherfucker. Have you been to Cuba? Ecuador? Venezuela? Bolivia? Where the fuck do you get your info? Some racist hick in your hometown, or even your house? Or wait, I got it....Fox news!! Read some books for Christ sakes. Or watch some films: Missing, The Revolution Will Not Be Televised, Motorcycle Diaries, .... Oh, by the way...your OWN fucking country won't let you travel to Cuba without the threat of jail and/or fine. I know, because I've been there. Why do you think that is?
"Missing, The Revolution Will Not Be Televised, Motorcycle Diaries, ...."
Dude get your fucking hands off our property. It does not belong to you! If you insist you have a right to steal from our corporations we will send in the CIA or the NED to fuck you up.
Yes I know the score. I am not a "dumb racist hick" as you imply. I understand that it is in my rational self-interest to defend the property rights of others because it leads to economic growth and the defense of my own rights.
Ok, time for facts. Where are your numbers coming from? It is a well known FACT, that at LEAST 6 million people in Latin America have been murdered, tortured, and disappeared in the last half a century. And these included: teachers, union organizers, journalists, and yes, socialists and communists. Everybody who knows ANYTHING about the world knows this. It is Politics 101. It is obvious that US imperialism needs to control the resources in SA and CA. Just like in the Middle East (oil..).
"And these included: teachers, union organizers, journalists, and yes, socialists and communists."
Um excuse me, there is a massive difference between murder and killing a communist or socialist fuck who is trying to change the government to violate others rights.
By Castro? You fucking retard. You are fucking clueless. And look, from gingo to gringo...everybody knows that the biggest terrorist in the world is the US. Hell, "smart" Americans know that our CIA is the dirtiest fucking organization in the world. And what of the School of Americas? I got a recommendation. Go to Cuba, and talk with the Cuban people. You will find that they LOVE Fidel. Most consider him to be like a freakin grandfather. Stop watching the O'Reily factor.
"Go to Cuba, and talk with the Cuban people. You will find that they LOVE Fidel."
Really? There happens to be one Hispanic minority in our country that consistently votes 90% Republican. You want to guess which group that is? It's the Cuban-Americans. They do it because they hate Castro's regime.
The ones there might love it because he's got control of the media and education centers (he's got them brainwashed not to know any better)
but hey thats the type of asshole u are ,to support the poor getting killed , bishops getting killed supporting death squads killing innocent people , leaving people without rights NEXT TIME DON'T FUCKING OPEN UR DUMB ASS MOUTH ABOUT SHIT IN LATIN AMERICA WHEN U HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE AT ALL NEXT THING U KNOW UR GONNA SAY U SUPPORT Augusto Pinochet and ALL THE SHIT HE DID JUST LIKE UR SUPPORTING HONDURAS COUP AND ROBERTO!
You stupid fascist fuck. Who gives a fuck what you or any other motherfucker think about Allende. He won a majority vote, democratically. If the Chilean people wanted socialism, and wanted to nationalize their industries, taking back their country from private corporations, from capitalism, then so be it. To be against that, which you apparently are, IS THE REAL DEFINITION OF DICTATOR. Because you want it JUST your way, not what the majority wants. Look up DEMOCRACY in the dict.,hypocrite
"Who gives a fuck what you or any other motherfucker think about Allende."
LOL the CIA sure did! :)
"If the Chilean people wanted socialism, and wanted to nationalize their industries,"
Fine, but they weren't nationalizing THEIR industries. They were nationalizing OUR industries. Ie. they were stealing from foreign corporations this in turn drives the price up for products here at home.
Another thing, majority of not, when "the people" vote to violate ones rights then "the people" need to be overthrown. Get it?
"IS THE REAL DEFINITION OF DICTATOR. Because you want it JUST your way, not what the majority wants."
Fuck the majority. If the majority is screwing with my rights then I have every right to tell them to go to hell. The problem with unconstrained democracy lets people vote away others rights. Sorry but if they do that then they DESERVE a Pinochet.
To give money to women who are expecting , to help them survive , yeah thats terrorist , or giving back ownership to farmers and give them their deeds back yeah thats fucking terrorist , GO FUCK UR SELF U FUCKING ASSHOLE OR HOW BOUT BUILDING PROJECTS FOR HOMELESS YEAH THATS TERRORIST YOU FUCKING DON'T KNOW SHIT MAN U REALLY FUCKING HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THE WAR IN EL SALVADOR WAS ABOUT YOU FUCKING STAR WARS LOSERS
Dude did you read that link I sent you? I wasn't the one to classify the FMLN as a terror group, that was the CIA. And you're a complete idiot if you think you know more about terrorism than the CIA.
Well apparently you didn't know that the group you supported was engaged in terrorist activity. As for it winning elections that doesn't make it inherently good. Remember the Palestinians elected Hamas as well. All that does is create a case with the inmates running the asylum.
really what are the activities then u jack ass please inform me , because i'm part of it and last i checked all we do is help the poor and help the people of el salvador prove to me this u fucking idioit
And what does the rest of this organization do (and or has done)? Hezbollah gives people in Lebanon social services as well as a de facto government but that doesn't mean they are not a terrorist organization.
Oh also I've noticed that you've been rather hot-headed throughout. Which is pretty ridiculous considering that you are the one supporting 3rd world dictators not me.
What happened was we went to Iraq based on intelligence failures that said there were WMD's and we didn't find any. It's likely that Saddam was bluffing that he had them to scare his opponents and give him more power. When the US got on his tail about it he denied it, but by then he had gone so far to faking it that everyone thought he had them.
Now there are some conspiracy theorists who say that the neocons cooked the intel, but the Silbermann-Robb report debunked that silly nonsense.
LOL, no you didn't all you did was prove that you cared about communism over property rights. I don't give a rats ass that there are poor people in Venezuala. It is in my rational self-interest to insure that we get cheap gas at the gas station. As such I don't see what the matter is to bomb for stealing our oil. Watch Mr. Cropper's videos on the subject.
cia edited vid.filmed before chavez was elected.you silly greedy yankeeessss
XpEAnUTBuTtERsUckSX 2 months ago
This going in spanish... Chavez el mejor presidente... por favor, no me maten de risa. Abran los ojos y vean lo que esta haciendo con su país. Dejen de seguir mentiras de un pseudo socialista que vive como un gordo capitalista. Si no hacen algo pronto Venezuela entrara en una peor miseria que la actual. Lamentable situación la que viven... Mis fuerzas a los hermanos venezolanos que saben la verdad.
rasho9393 3 months ago
Zach would punch the person who created this video. Retards he would for Chavez since Chavez is a socialist. This video is retarded, I can show this same video in every single country because every single country has violence as well. VIVA CHAVEZ!
cedillosstudios 6 months ago
Hugo Chavez will go just like all the repressive regimes in the world. All those Dictators with there Billions, at the expense of the people.
cal45deserteagle 7 months ago
Good that the poor gets a share of the oilmoney and the gouverment show solidarity.....Sooo bloody tired of fachist arsholes
Lunda9 8 months ago 5
yeah totally makes sense as seeing how there is no middle class i mean there is the poor and the rich which is the polititians but yeah your right i see how the poor is getting a share of the money oh wait yeah they are not
VALO712 6 months ago
Chavez isn't a dictator, he is a selfish idiot following Castro's example. But it really doesn't matter WHO is in office the oposition is just as corrupt as the chavistas. Its a cultural problem. Real socialism wouldve started by raising the minimum wage 10 times. I had high govt officials there basically asking me to help them launder money and whatnot(which I didn't). And both political parties buy the votes of the citizens. so grow up and realize its the people not the politics.
mischeviousmojo13 9 months ago
this vid Gay and fake
Guarinbano 9 months ago
a ROLEX WATCH which i'm really sure he didn't get it at the loco market or at goajiros as we call it in venezuela. Or why is minister Carreno asking for equality , and telling that capitalism suck when he is dressing up with a hugo boss suit and a Lousi Voutton tie? i don't know but it doesn't look like SOCIALISM...OR THE NEW SOCIALISM how chavez love to call it....!!!
peraza111 11 months ago
so if chavez is the best president y is it then that the the PIB or GDP as americans' call it has decreased around 7.8% since he got on power, or y does venezuela has the highest homicide rate on latin america and is on the top 10 of the wolrd, or y the basic food basquet is almost 4 times more higher than the average income?while his family have many properties in the USA, the oil price have pased from 22USD(when he got in power) to 95USD and chavez is wearing
peraza111 11 months ago
@peraza111
LOL!
Povery has been halved under Chavez you ignorant fool. The economy has actually grown since he has been in power(16% in 2006).
Except,unlike chilie, the results of the growth flooded to the poor majority rather than overseas banks.
MrReco12 10 months ago
chavez is gay
kousery 11 months ago
@kousery So what is your point asshole.....????????
perronipye 9 months ago
@kousery So do you have a point asshole?? If he was we won't be in this mess!!!
perronipye 9 months ago
The people of Egypt has spoken... i think Venezuela people should speak as well..!!
fleiva30 11 months ago
Chavez wasn't a dictator, he've become
AZURA888 11 months ago
He was elected by popular vote. Simple as that.
apresesco 1 year ago
It is incredible the ignorance of all people who call Chavez a dictador. Chavez is the best presidente ever. Chavez y trying the overthrow the dictadorship of bussiness man and the oligarchy. Excuse my english, i am latin american and i speak spanish.
VIVA CHAVEZ!!!
NOTE: Why dont you read some information in english at the website called: hands off Venezuela?? Stop watching CNN and Fox pleasex
Exiliadomx 1 year ago 11
best ever? how is he a president that wont let go of power? thats giving billions of dollars to cuba and other countries but not his own country? how is he good if the country is one of the most violent city in the world? where there is no middle class? where anarchy basically exist? well i got to say someones head is stuck up his ass
VALO712 6 months ago
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Venezu3la99 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Exiliadomx you are such an ignorant piece of shit. Chaves has turned that country, MY COUNTRY, into a living hell.
Porfavor, sacate la cabeza de el culo.
Venezu3la99 3 months ago
@Venezolana558 I think it's a combination of both: the ignorance of the population and the rigging of the elections. Creo que es una combinacion de los dos: la ignorancia de la poblacion y la manipulacion de las elecciones.
But support for Chavez is declining, although he will attempt anything to remain entrenched in power. Pero la popularidad de Chavez esta en decadencia, aunque el tratara cualquier cosa para mantenerse en el poder.
CarlosMarti123 1 year ago
@lvii22 alright ... i guess your right. because i know that you know for a faact that they modify all the results of all the elections. thats what the people who hate chavez say to make themselves feel better.
Venezolana558 1 year ago
SO just to correct something about the title of this, Chavez is NOT a dictator . Look up the definition of dictatorships and then tell me if a dictatorship has elections.... just saying, not suppoortting him or anything(trust me), but it bugs me when people say hes a dictator, its dumb.
Venezolana558 1 year ago
@Venezolana558 elections? Modified results do not represent real democracy = dictatorship hidden behind an illusional democracy
lvii22 1 year ago
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lastetasdenaya 1 year ago
How's he a dictator when there are free elections?
BaldricksInferior 1 year ago 2
@BaldricksInferior Those are "fixed elections" all the people working at the institution in charge of the elections and vote counting are his subordinates...
gandibue 1 year ago
Here in Finland we had a president for 21 years and he was elected and re elected. Chavez is been legaly elected too so he's not a dictator, he has the support of the poor people and venezuelan oposition is fragmented and more divided by selfish. Viva Chavez!
bluntedblazed 1 year ago
Give me a break loser. Let me guess, you hate the rich and would like to redisttribute wealth among all citizens. Keep on rewarding useless people with less and less private investors, wich by the way happen to be the ones providing jobs. Ignorant
TLOMETO23 1 year ago
@TLOMETO23 Let me guess, you're a pro Yankee not even a real american citizen who loves to kiss american ass and supports a cause that is not even yours, you still live with your mom, wanks everyday, you're bald and short, somebody who believes blindly in whatever fox news says and you still think there was wmd in Irak! Dumb ass who's the ignorant now. Keep on kissing your masters ass and bend over in front of a govt that's not even yours, go back and finish the dishes at your boss restaurant.
bluntedblazed 1 year ago
@bluntedblazed Where do you live again? OH Finland! who cares about Finland!... Typical reply of somebody who either is from that country and does not have a sense of what real life is, or somebody born in Latin America, Venezuelan perhaps, whose mommy and daddy "suffered" the harsh days of the past due to their ignorance. By the way that ignorance apparently has passed on to you. You probably are in your late teens or early twenties, listen to techno and thinks having sex with sox on is cool
TLOMETO23 1 year ago
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TLOMETO23 1 year ago
@bluntedblazed Dont let your scholarship ago tiny, you may have to go back and inhabit your president's dumpster with all the unemployed wearing second hand red t-shirts while awaiting for the power and the water service to be restored. Hey, if it is that great why is it that you live in irrelevant Finland and not in the great nation that cant even feed their own....
TLOMETO23 1 year ago
@TLOMETO23 Que pobre, infeliz y desafortunado comentario, sencillamente debes navegar en un mar de envidia y descontento pedazo de pajuo, gente como tu son los que no dejan que la oposicion venezolana sea o luzca decente, aguantate a chavez pendejo! irrelevant Finland pff ya quisieras tu vivir aca hdp
bluntedblazed 1 year ago
@bluntedblazed It took u a month to come up with that come back? Probably because u have to go through a dictionary trying to find the translation for every word I wrote. Says a lot about your level of education. Cuss less and think more IGNORANT. PS: Ask your daddy to take u back to the land of the informal commerce where they kill u for a pair of fake NIKEs.
TLOMETO23 1 year ago
@TLOMETO23 Pobre ser humano, para no llamarte animal como deberias ser llamado "lame botas" How creative like I give a damn about Nike or whatever means global brands, that says heaps about u fatso/bald Like it or not Chavez will rule Venezuela for decades and decades thanx to ppl like you ! yes you fat ignorant! keep replying, it really amuses me, Pobre infeliz.
bluntedblazed 1 year ago
@bluntedblazed I see U finally found the dictionary. Although I think U still can't find the way to put two concise sentences together. I guess the Gran Mariscal de Ayacucho has its flaws.
TLOMETO23 1 year ago
@TLOMETO23 andate a lavar platos y deja de criticar, si en verdad estas en yankeeland quejate alla y deja de hacer de guerrero de teclado maldito guevon, como te dije de seguro gordo. calvo. enano. y vive con su mami todavia Imbecil ahora es que hay Chavez pa rato btw me cago en tu madre y en tus muertos
bluntedblazed 1 year ago
los mas bizarro de todo es que si haces un ejercicio basado en el 2 mas dos son cuatro, 2.300 contenedores en linea a 20 metros cada uno son 46 kilometros de contenedores llenos de comida extranjera comprada con el dinero de TODOS los venezolanos pero utilizados para crear zozobra por un grupo de sinverguenzas corruptos... dame dame todo el power para que te volvamos verga....
atunerocerquero 1 year ago
Como la canción de Molotov... dame dame todo el power para que te demos en la madre... en venezolano decimos para volverte verga... eso es lo que ha hecho este dictador llamado Hugo Chavez... lo mas bizarro son los 2.300 contenedores de comida importada acaparados por el gobierno en las aduanas para crear escasez y luego culpar a la oposicion de acaparamiento y expopiar, es decir ocupar ilegalmente y a la fuerza las empresas productoras de alimiento privadas... estan viendo cual es el juego
atunerocerquero 1 year ago
I voted for him in the last elections, is NOT a dictator
dearrebata 1 year ago
@dearrebata tu eres marico? hay no , no entiendo la gente como tu de pana
angellusdark 1 year ago
How can Chavez be a dictator when he was democratically elected by the people of Venezuala?
archdeaconj 1 year ago
Exactly. Several times now! People's definition of democracy is certainly strange. According to US standards, Chavez won by LANDSLIDE victories.
Gringosmasher 1 year ago
Yes well if the people vote to take away others rights then the people need to be overthrown. : )
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
@JohananRaatz I wonder if you really mean this. If you do then you will have to concede that the American people need to be overthrown. For the American people have time and again voted into power governments that have plundered the resources of other countries, exploited the poor - both of their own and Third World countries, funded and supported puppet dictatorships, violated civil and human rights... need I go on? Would you like to rethink your position?
archdeaconj 1 year ago
@archdeaconj No we haven't "plundered" anything. We acquired it on the free market. And no, corrective interventions by the CIA or the NED do not count, because those were necessary to keep the free market free in the first place.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
@JohananRaatz So you think it's perfectly acceptable for the US to overthrow democratically elected governments simply because they are socialist or opposed to opening up the country's resources to multi-nationals? You think it's morally justifiable for the US to manoeuvre into power and fund and support ruthless dictators just so long as they play the neo-liberal capitalist game?
archdeaconj 1 year ago
Hitler was also democratically elected remember.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
@JohananRaatz. Hitler was democratically elected, that's right. What's your point? So Hitler wasn't a dictator. Even if Hitler had been a dictator, how does that say anything about Chavez? Are you just saying that it's possible to be democratically elected and still be 'a bad man'? Is that all you're saying?
archdeaconj 1 year ago
Except both Hitler and Chavez used their power for an agenda to violate people's rights. If you don't believe so then I will point out that he summarily stole ExxonMobil's oil a while back. This in turn caused the gas prices to rise at home which in turn stole from me.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
@JohananRaatz Well, Chavez didn't steal the oil, for it was Venezuelan oil. What he did was kick out ExxonMobil and nationalise the oil so that instead of swelling the profits of the oil companies it was used for the benefit of the people. This is what socialist states do. Venezuelans not only benefited from improved welfare across the board but got cheap oil to boot. In the US, by contrast, the price of oil is determined by what the market will take to maximise profit.
archdeaconj 1 year ago
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JohananRaatz 1 year ago
@archdeaconj Part of the natural function of a government is to protect its citizens rights -these include property rights. When another country violates these rights the government has an obligation to intervene and protect those rights. So yes, it is perfectly fine to keep the neoliberal order in place -because "neoliberal" is just code for "I want what someone else has and I don't like the system that is preventing me from stealing it.
A democratic kleptocracy is still a kleptocracy.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
@JohananRaatz A government has a right to protest its citizens' rights? Yes. Including property rights? Certainly. But it is OK to change another government's socio-politico-economic system so you can effectively steal what they have? Are you kidding? Are you saying that there are fundamentally no rights, only the law of the jungle?
archdeaconj 1 year ago
@archdeaconj "But it is OK to change another government's socio-politico-economic system so you can effectively steal what they have?"
Back up here, socialism is the initial change in the socio-politico-economic system here. Remember all of these countries started out capitalist -it's what enabled us to do business in them in the first place. And transactions on the free market =/= stealing by definition.
As for law of the jungle, don't complain socialists were the initial aggressors here.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
@JohananRaatz You said it's acceptable to 'intervene' (notwithstanding all the bloodshed that may entail) to keep in place the neoliberal order and you define 'neoliberal' as a system allowing you to steal what someone else has. How is this not the law of the jungle? And if this is what you believe then you have no need to justify overthrowing a socialist government by saying capitalism predated it (which is no justification, anyway).
archdeaconj 1 year ago
@archdeaconj No, I said that it wasn't a system allowing me to steal what someone else has. It's a system that prevents others from stealing what we have.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
@JohananRaatz So you're saying it's OK to intervene to keep in place the neo-liberal capitalist system because it prevents others from stealing what's yours. So when the US brought down, say, the socialist government of Chile, and installed a repressive military dictatorship, how was Chile stealing from the US? Was it not the unelected Pinochet, opening up the country's resources to the multinationals, stealing from the Chilean people - as well as taking away their freedom?
archdeaconj 1 year ago
@archdeaconj So you see, the US is perfectly willing to bring down a government elected by the people in order to install a puppet dictator who will play the game with respect to US interests (and there are many more examples I could give apart from Chile). Now you say, 'if the people vote to take away others' rights, then [they] need to be overthrown.' Therefore, by your own admission, the government of this rogue state - by which I mean, the US - needs to be overthrown.
archdeaconj 1 year ago
That was the Cold War, we had to save the world from the evils of communism. We never liked Pinochet, he was fucking scum, but we had to do what was best for everyone. Besides he's gone now isn't he?
AmericanBadass44 1 year ago
@AmericanBadass44 Well Thatcher was genuinely friends with Pinochet when both were old - she helped him evade a war crimes tribunal. Yeah, I know Thatcher was a British Prime Minister (I'm a Brit) but I just thought I'd get that in. There are lots of other examples I could give, I just chose Chile as one example. Whether it's 'best for everyone' is a separate issue. My point was it happens all the time: El Salvador, Guatemala, Hawai, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran coming up...(I'm out of char's).
archdeaconj 1 year ago
@archdeaconj
In case you haven't seen the news, Chile is today the most prosperous country in Latin America. It was their radical free-market policies that lifted up the poor. Socialism always has been and always will be a formula for injustice and stagnation.
glovisy 1 year ago
@glovisy Now this is interesting. I haven't actually been following events in Chile in the news so don't know much about it. So Chile adopted a free market policy, yes? They abandoned a socialist-type economy and went for free-market capitalism and the average standard of living increased? Are you sure that the standard of living of the poor increased?
archdeaconj 1 year ago
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archdeaconj 1 year ago
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@archdeaconj "saying capitalism predated it (which is no justification, anyway)"
Actually it is, because if capitalism existed first then the only way to transition from capitalism to socialism is to STEAL large amounts of PRIVATE PROPERTY so that you can then redistribute it. Since theft is WRONG, socialism taking the place of capitalism would also be wrong. Hence since socialism/communism/ is the only alternative to capitalism, capitalism would be justified as the correct system.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
@JohananRaatz
This is flawed logic. It's akin to saying that any time a company raises the price of it's product it is stealing from you. In actuality, the reason your oil prices were low was because the US stole and plundered the resources of, among other countries, Venezuela. So, in reality, your the one who has been indirectly stealing from Venezuela.
BlindPacemaker 1 year ago
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@BlindPacemaker By definition stealing and plundering does not occur on the free market when corporations have private property rights to what they are selling. Last I checked ExxonMobil had private property rights to those assets.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
Um no, it was ExxonMobil's oil that also happened to be in Venezuela. Now if ExxonMobil wants to make a profit off of their own oil there is nothing at all wrong with that and Chavez does not have a right to tell them what to do with their own stuff.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
On a different note, stop throwing a fit and being an angry douchebag.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
look here u dumb ass loser u keep saying CIA but the fact is you said it , ur the one who called fmln terrorist , if ur going by what the cia says that means u dont have a mind of your own secondly on pinchoet , he took away the peoples president a man who was fighting for the people and giving the people what they wanted and pinchoete did was make chile a disgrace and have a huge population in poverty and killing innocent people my old friend died because of pinchoete so go fuck urself
latinchico22 2 years ago
Yes but I got it from the CIA. It wasn't me that had them listed as a terror org.
As for having a brain, ignoring the experts on what they specialize in is not very intelligent. So it would be you who doesn't have a brain.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
As I said before I do not like the fact that they were using death squads and such. It's just that I don't like the other option even more so. The Kirkpatrick doctrine states that when you have an authoritarian regime vs. a totalitarian communist one it is often wise to support the former against the latter.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
Crazy. Get into a conversation with a Marxist over simple facts and they throw a massive temper tantrums. I've never seen such overgrown crybabies in my life.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
so its okay to kill many innocent people in iraq its okay to steal natural resource of another country and its good to have a oil line which isn't on your land so its okay to have free trade and give them shit and yet get great things in return.. typical american loser
latinchico22 2 years ago
Right Ok its like talking to a brick wall with u, and for the last time I'M NOT AMERICAN.
Waynes150 2 years ago
lol u jus don't get it ..... u just hate it that someone proved you wrong ... and everything i'm speaking about is the truth ..... hahahhahha later loser
latinchico22 2 years ago
Na its bull u will realise that when its too late, thats the problem, we are sleep walking into a crisis and folk like u certainly dont help things.
Waynes150 2 years ago
really i have family there ... and they tell me things haven't been better lol hummm its been what almost 10 years and its only been great ... well not great for the rich lol hahah loser know ur fucking facts
latinchico22 2 years ago
They are obv falling foul of his charm offensive just like ordinary Germans did for Adolf Hitler and the same for Stalin, but as we all know they were bad apples, did a few good things economically i suppose(especially Hitler) but they were also tyrants, but im guessing u wont agree with me.
Waynes150 2 years ago
okay he has no plan on killing a certain race group lol people talk about his pics with people from arbic countries but what bout the people like pope john paul the 2nd or bill clinton .... u wanna then now go with what if ... then truly you are an idiot.... because look at the queen she has how many countries with her ... and owns alot of islands but shes not there trying to kill people and shes been alive for what 100 years lol
latinchico22 2 years ago
So I have a question. If CIA's and the NED's policies of trying to coup Venezuala for stealing our oil were bad then why is it that couping other commie states for the same reason often brings about economic prosperity in America?
After Reagan stomped out the communist terrorists in Latin America in the 80's Clinton was able to sign free trade agreements in the 90's which brought about economic growth here.
I don't see what kind of an idiot would be against doing this. It's obviously good.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
so making 5 dollars a day is alrite, taking away the countries resources is fine , and helping build a constitution which don't u think should only be for the people living in that country and not get help from the usa , honestly buddy you are going into a wild fire and your going to get stommped TRUTH IS ALL OF LATIN AMERICA WAS FIGHTING THE HIGHER CLASS AND USA IN LATIN AMERICA BECAUSE THEY KNEW THEY WERE GOING TO SCREW THEM OVER MY FAMILY WAS PART OF THE CIVIL WARS SO DON'T FUCKING START
latinchico22 2 years ago
Yes and I'm American so you were FIGHTING US to try to STEAL OUR PROPERTY!
"so making 5 dollars a day is alrite"
Yeah it's punishment for theft. If you had spent half as much money on building your economy as you had funding socialist kleptocrats you wouldn't be making 5$ a day!
"honestly buddy you are going into a wild fire and your going to get stommped"
Nah I think we did that nicely during Reagan's time.
"DON'T FUCKING START"
You started it with your anti-American hate speech.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
tell me what property are we trying to steal , we live on our land and live our lives U WERE THE ONES THAT CAME TO LATIN AMERICAN I NEVER ONCE SAW IN THE HISTORY BOOKS THAT IT SAYS US OWNS EVERYTHING U FUCKING LOSER seconldy THE REASON WHY WE MAKE 5 DOLLAS A DAY IS BECAUSE THE US MADE IT THAT WAY BUT NOW ITS BEING CHANGED THANKS TO MEN LIKE CHAVEZ AND IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY US FAILED IN EL SALVADOR FAILED IN NICARAGURA FAILED IN VENEZUELA FAILED IN SO MANY AND WILL FAIL IN HONDURAS
latinchico22 2 years ago
Read the news, you failed in Honduras.
"U WERE THE ONES THAT CAME TO LATIN AMERICAN "
So? That doesn't mean we can't buy anything in Latin America.
"WE MAKE 5 DOLLAS A DAY IS BECAUSE THE US"
No, you're incredibly ignorant. The FREE MARKET made it that way. Therefore it's fair.
BTW, I'm not a 'redneck' for understanding that it is in my rational self-interest to defend my economic interests. Many neoconservative and Randian intellectuals understand that as well, and they aren't 'rednecks.'
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
no the free market didn't make it that way if that was the case then the canada and the us would be in the same boat but its not is it , look u dumb ass loser i already proved u wrong in many other topics and ur just making urself look like a typical right wing extremist ,but u know what why dont u try to survive in any 3rd world country and see if you will say life is fair but thanks to socialist countries in latin america the days of the past are finally dying !!! and that must eat u up inside
latinchico22 2 years ago
"if that was the case then the canada and the us would be in the same boat but its not is it"
If you hadn't noticed much of the rest of the world has also been affected by this crisis. So I don't know what you are talking about.
"i already proved u wrong in many other topics"
How so? You presumed that I hold to certain premises which I don't that doesn't mean you disproved me.
"look like a typical right wing extremist"
LOL said by someone who hates America and supports CHAVEZ! ROFL
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
"it seems to me u love the poor being poor and rich get richer"
In relation to the rest of America I'm middle class not rich. In relation to the rest of the world I'm rich. That being the case it is in my rational self-interest to pursue policies that make the rich (as defined when compared to the rest of the world) to get richer -thereby enabling me to buy a nice car and other things I want.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
anti american lol how am i anti american lol because i stand for resources in latin america to stay in latin america! , or to see latin american people stay in their country and have their kids get the right education just like the us or canada , but it seems that ur just a plain old redneck who believes everything belongs to the states GUESS WHAT U FUCKING LOSER ITS NOT LIKE THAT now u guys are the sinking ship and no where to go lol hahaha
latinchico22 2 years ago
"i stand for resources in latin america to stay in latin america!"
They are there. We own them there though.
"but it seems that ur just a plain old redneck who believes everything belongs to the states"
Where did I say that? What I said was that what we PURCHASED in Latin America belongs to us. THEREFORE it belongs to us. Why can't you get that concept through your thick skull?
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
i have read the news , i read how the elections were a fraud where only max 48% and that number is actualy going down as the numbers come in v AND THERE IS VIDEO EVIDENCE AS WELL unlike most supporters of the coup they claim its 63% but the video evidence shows otherwise , secondlly so you think its okay that higher class people have the right to steal and sell what the poor have , no that isn't fair anyone with a brain knows that , it seems to me u love the poor being poor and rich get richer
latinchico22 2 years ago
"i have read the news"
Ok then tell me, who won in the consitutional dispute, Zelaya or Micheletti? And another thing. Please define "coup" for me and specify if coups are constitutional or unconstitutional in nature.
"okay that higher class people have the right to steal"
Where did I say that? I didn't say that. I don't have a problem with the rich becoming richer if they do it by buying and selling. I never said I am ok with it if they are stealing and selling.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
look ur not latino u don't know the latin history u should u stop and the whole world knows it was a coup a coup is when military power is used , simple as that
latinchico22 2 years ago
"look ur not latino"
Just because I'm not latino does not mean I don't have vested interests at stake.
"and the whole world knows it was a coup"
No, most people understand it wasn't. On facebook the largest Honduran crisis related group was anti-Zelaya with 10,000 HONDURANS as members. And even Obama has reversed himself on the situation.
"a coup is when military power is used"
That's a shoddy definition. You ignored my question: Are coups constitutional or unconstitutional in nature?
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
okay how many people in honduras do you believe own a computer because over 65% are poor and a higher % is just a lil above it , and who do you thank for that , the united states and the wealthy class mr.zelaya was changing that and the higher class didn't like it , ur not latino u don't know the history u only know what media tells you , please tell me why there were so many civil wars in central america and buddy once military force is used its a coup simple as that
latinchico22 2 years ago
After Zelaya tried to subvert the Constitution he was no longer a citizen under that constitution. I believe there is even a clause saying as much.
"out that shows the much needed evidence that the elections were a fraud"
You mean the evidence of Zelaya's goons burglarizing an air force base and stealing ballots from it?
"if they wanted a new constitution which in a recent poll shows over 65% do"
Undermining a constitution is a democratic failure. The people are not above the law.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
the people have the right to a new constitution if they believe it doesn't benifit them . you saying no shows that u want dictatorship
latinchico22 2 years ago
No they don't get to make a new constitution if it isn't based on objective principles. Then it doesn't matter what they want -because they are wrong by definition. If you violate objective principles you are wrong.
And I hate to break it to you but just because something isn't an anarchy where the mob get's to make up laws willy-nilly doesn't mean it's a dictatorship. "The people" are not above the law. It doesn't matter if there are a whole bunch of them.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
you see how ur not making sense here , first of all the people have the right to change their constitution because they are the ones going by it , secondly u talk about how the people aren't above the law SO EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THE FUCKING COUP GOVERNMENT IS AND BROKE THOUSANDS OF HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS WHICH IS ALREADY REPORTED your not making sense first u say the people aren't about the law but it seems ur okay with coup members are FUCKING IDIOT
latinchico22 2 years ago
and if your going to justify what happen with mr.zelay and say it was with in the constitution let me remind you article 102 which indicates that u can not send a honduras citizen to exile , or how bout the thousands of human rights that were violated or how about the curfew which wasn't even approved by congress only roberto ,or how bout the video proof that is out that shows the much needed evidence that the elections were a fraud
latinchico22 2 years ago
but here let me help u with ur argument only thing ur going to say about mr.zelaya was he was trying to extend his term limit , which he already in many occasions said he wouldn't secondly it would never happen in his term do you know long it would take to make that happen and it would fall under the new elections not this one he wanted to ask the people if they wanted a new constitution which in a recent poll shows over 65% do , why do u think many groups such as womens and african honduras
latinchico22 2 years ago
want a new constitution , yo honestly should shut up and really stop because u don't know a damn thing of what is going on , but hey don't worry maybe one day some stronger nation will and take what the us has oh wait its happening already with china .... but it will get worse , you see u have nothing only thing ur showing is how stupid u sound when u say its your property no the people never gave u the rights only high class did , and its not your oil its the people and chavez has done it
latinchico22 2 years ago
"its your property no the people never gave u the rights only high class did"
"The people" do not need to give us any rights. Rights do not come from the collective.
If you don't like to admit that the upper class has rights as well that can't be taken away by the mob, then you can't complain when the upper class treats you in kind -like with what happened after Zelaya was ousted. I'm not saying I agree with what happened afterwards, only that if that is your perspective you can't complain.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
oh and by the way regan didn't do shit to us, we fought back , latin america won most of the war big example EL SALVADOR and if u try to argue that u will look like a fool CAUSE I WAS IN EL SALVADOR MY FAMILY IS PART OF THE FMLN so don't try to fucking start u fucking loser
latinchico22 2 years ago
"or how bout the thousands of human rights that were violated"
When their is a threat to the stability of the state, extra-legal powers are required. This is what is called a "state of exception." This concept is well known in political philosophy. I'm not saying that everything done in a state of exception is good, only that it is very different than engaging in extra-legal activity to undermine the government.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
stop trying to defend the fact coup and them breaking the constitution, here u are contradicting yourself frist you say people have to obey the constitution but yet here ur saying oh its okay cause thsi is happening but yet the constituion has so many flaws , so u lost this one
latinchico22 2 years ago
No I haven't lost the argument. You just haven't been reading up on your political philosophy. Read Carl Schmitt on the "state of exception" concept.
First of all this was a hypothetical. I am not sure the constitution was violated in the first place by simple police brutality.
SECONDLY, behaving in an extra-legal fashion to defend a regime or a constitution is different in nature than doing the same to subvert it. It's the same principle as a policeman speeding to catch a speeder.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
oh and by the way regan didn't do shit to us
I was referring to Nicaragua.
"CAUSE I WAS IN EL SALVADOR MY FAMILY IS PART OF THE FMLN"
So you are basically admitting that you were a terrorist?
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
eXCUSE ME . WE ARE NOT TERRORIST !!!! HOW THE FUCK DARE YOU SAY THAT SHIT . DO U KNOW HOW MANY INNONCENT PEOPLE DIED DUE TO THE CIVIL WAR U FUCKING ASSHOLE DON'[T U FUCKING SAY SHIT LIKE THAT EVER AGAIN THAT IS DISRESPECTFUL TO ME MY FAMILY AND MY FRIENDS AND HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS . SO YOUR SAYING WE FIGHTING FOR FARMERS AND THE POOR ARE TERRIORIST GO FUCKING URSELF YOU FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT DON'T U FUCKING SAY SHIT U DON'T KNOW GOT IT
latinchico22 2 years ago
"DO U KNOW HOW MANY INNONCENT PEOPLE DIED DUE TO THE CIVIL WAR U FUCKING ASSHOLE ."
Yes and their blood is on your hands for aiding and abetting the FMLN. This civil war would never have happened had the communists not engaged in terrorism.
"SO YOUR SAYING WE FIGHTING FOR FARMERS AND THE POOR ARE TERRIORIST GO FUCKING URSELF"
No, you are terrorists because you tried to overthrow the government with violence.
Oh also: Fuck-Fuckety-Fuck-Fuck-Fuck. See? I can spout off like that as well. :D
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
look here u fucking retard of a star wars fan , you have no clue what latin america is about u don't know tis history u never lived there and probably never touch a girls lips besides your ugly ass mom you have now insulted me and millions of salvadorians IF FMILN were TERRIORIST then why did the majority of people vote for them in power in the last el salvador electiosn u fucking asshole! explain to me this u fucking brain tell me why there was a civil war in el salvador ! PLEASE ANSWER ME THAT
latinchico22 2 years ago
Ok fwucking asshow! The people voted them in because they were irresponsible just like the Palestinians that elected Hamas. And your question makes no sense. You assume that just because an organization can hold power means they aren't terrorists. That's a non sequiter.
The civil war started because the FMLN wanted to overthrow the government that's why so they could implement socialist kleptocracy and they rallied "the pimples" against the government.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
did u know that american soldiers raped innoncent women in el salvador , do u know what the fucking war was about . no we were fighting for our land our people . stealing land and owenership from hard working farmers and killing priest thats what your about if u call fmln terrorist you justify killing priest and kids who are un armed BUT BOTTOM LINE WE FUCKING WON AND FMLN IS IN POWER TO NOW GIVE FREE MEAL TO KIDS FOR SCHOOL BUT HEY THATS TERRORIST RIGHT ! U FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT
latinchico22 2 years ago
Now, after reading the timeline on this I think I might see why you are angry. Unfortunately the regime in power was also rather brutal. However it is also clear here the the FMLN started it all. On the one side we have a military junta on the other a communist regime. In cases like these I will defer to the Kirkpatrick doctrine: when forces into this choice authoritarian regimes should always be supported over totalitarian ones. Anything is better than communism.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
hERE U FUCKING JACK ASS THIS IS THE TRUTH THE GOVERNMENT STARTED THE WAR FIRST IT WAS PROTEST BY THOUSANDS BUT WHEN THE GOVERNMENT HATED THIS THEY STARTED USING MILITARY FORCE THEY HAD A DEATH SQUAD WHICH KILLED BISHOP ROMERO WHICH MADE MATTERS WORSE AND THE WAR WAS GETTING MORE N MORE DEADLY I HAVE NO CLUE WHERE THE FUCK U GET UR FACTS BUT U WERE NOT THERE AND EVEN IN BOOKS IT WILL SAY THE GOVERNMENT STARTED BY TAKING LAND OF FRAMERS BUT HEY U THINK ITS FAIR U FUCKING BITCH ,
latinchico22 2 years ago
FIrst of all, calm down and stop throwing a temper tantrum. Now let's analyze this.
"EVEN IN BOOKS IT WILL SAY THE GOVERNMENT STARTED BY TAKING LAND OF FRAMERS"
Ok, what exactly was going on here. Somehow I suspect this is open to interpretation. Why was the government taking land from the farmers? What was their reason?
"FIRST IT WAS PROTEST BY THOUSANDS BUT WHEN THE GOVERNMENT HATED"
Ok like I said just because I don't like the commies doesn't mean I like the other guys much either.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
look here u piece of shit star war loser , government were taking land from farmers so they can get the profit from coffee sugar canes and other things , secondly the war really started when AND THIS IS A FACT government death squad were killing protest leaders one big example is the bishop romero, why am i pissed because ur talking shit that u dont know so really if u don't have a clue of who they are and the history then shut ur fucking mouth
latinchico22 2 years ago
"government were taking land from farmers so they can get the profit from coffee sugar canes and other things"
Ok, and when this occurred was there any sort of transaction going on regarding the purchase of this land?
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
no u jack ass , the land belonged to the people , the government were leaving farmers without running water and electricity , Roberto D'Aubuisson who made up many death squads in el salvador was responsbile for the killing of the bishop which is a fact because they found the documents to prove it , but what really pisses me off is that the US sent 7 billion dollars to support these death squads WHICH AGAIN IS A FACT! anyway u try u will look like a fucking moron if u support this
latinchico22 2 years ago
As I said before I do not like the fact that they were using death squads and such. It's just that I don't like the other option even more so. The Kirkpatrick doctrine states that when you have an authoritarian regime vs. a totalitarian communist one it is often wise to support the former against the latter.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
they wanted those people to die to steal there land but hey ur oikay with that because in ur opinion they were dictators and shit like that but the truth is FMLN fought for those people who couldn't fight back , they fought for the people and even though u think they are terrioist which they aren't they helped the people of el salvador and they are not doing anything terrorist like at all so go to hell u kkk member and stay there u and pinchoet will be happy togeather
latinchico22 2 years ago
Ok, perhaps certain groups of the FMLN were not engaging in terror, but the CIA did have them on the terror list.
"so go to hell u kkk member"
LOL so are the members of CIA KKK members as well? ROFL
"they wanted those people to die to steal there land but hey ur oikay with that"
No what I'm wondering is if there was any larger motivation behind that. These kinds of things don't just happen for no reason.
As for Pinochet etc. It's not that I like them it's that I don't like the other guy.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
As for Pinochet:
"he took away the peoples president"
That's because the pimples had elected a socialist who was working with the Soviet Union. They only voted for Allende because he was going to bribe them by redistributing other people's wealth. If "the people" vote to violate ones rights then "the people" need to be overthrown.
"pinchoete did was make chile a disgrace"
Says who? Allende was a disgrace just like Chavez and Castro are today.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
ur a lost fool , its the governments job to look at their country , when u are president everything is about government not just peoples rights , and if your talking about peoples right then pinochet is the worse man u can defend because he destroyed so many peoples right
latinchico22 2 years ago
"your thinking too much like a typical american"
What's wrong with a "typical American?"
"tell me this u probably think iraq has W.O.D."
No, that was due to intelligence failures. As it turns out Saddam was trying to bluff having WMD's to keep his neighbors at bay. You know Sun Tzu's if you are weak pretend you are strong thing. He wasn't expecting though that we'd go in after that.
If you're thinking it was a conspiracy to go in the Silbermann-Robb report has since debunked that.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
You are completely misinformed about this. Saddam was our greatest ally (go to any library and you will see people like Rumsy shaking his hand, and signing win-win deals, etc.). Iraq was the closest thing to the US compared to other Middle Eastern countries. What Saddam did, was tell the US that he was going to charge us more for Iraqi oil. So we murdered him, invaded the country, and we now, again, control the Iraqi oil.
Gringosmasher 1 year ago
Pinochet straight out murdered and tortured up to 60,000 great revolutionaries, whose only crime was to speak against neocolonialism, and support their murdered, democratically elected president, Allende. The CIA ensured that over 3,000 US business firms would not lose their control in Chile. To do this day, it is US corporations that control much of the resource wealth of Chile (and Peru, but things are changing in Bolivia, Vz, and Ecuador...Brazil, too).
Gringosmasher 1 year ago
"Pinochet straight out murdered and tortured up to 60,000 great revolutionaries, whose only crime was to speak against neocolonialism,"
You mean try to subvert the government so as to violate people's rights? (theft violates people's rights) I'm not saying he was desirable only that he was more desirable than the alternative.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"The CIA ensured that over 3,000 US business firms would not lose their control in Chile."
Well of course. They wanted to have control over their own private property. There is nothing wrong with that. Allende and "the people" were trying to steal that property.
"To do this day, it is US corporations that control much of the resource wealth"
So? It's theirs isn't it? Besides that's good. It brings net GDP into the country which is good for our economy.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
"no u jack ass , the land belonged to the people"
Yes yes but what happened in between the time that they owned it and the time that the government took it? Surely there was something else that happened to cause them to do this.
"the government were leaving farmers without running water and electricity"
Turning them off? Or was this a matter of not having enough infrastructure?
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
gees man go to hell , you like a man who killed innocent people go to fucking hell you racist bastard , the world u live in is a fairy tale you truly are a kkk member u think a man saved chile when chile his popluarity was over 75% pinochet made chile disgusting with a huge poverty population and its not til now that the number has gone down thanks to leftest government , WHICH IS A FACT, and no the government didn't give them any running water or electricity because they choose too
latinchico22 2 years ago
"hell you racist bastard"
Racist bastard? So promoting capitalism is "racist?" Methinks you need to take a logic class. Ever heard of the affirming the consequent fallacy?
You're view of Pinochet is one sided. Pinochet defended the free market against communism in Chile and got rid of all of the Marxist terrorists in the country.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
"and have a huge population in poverty"
The government's responsibility is to protect people's rights, not address poverty.
"and killing innocent people"
First of all like I said I don't like these people I just favor them ruling in situations like this so we don't get the worse guy.
Secondly, Pinochet was known for surgically killing marxists radicals and terrorists who were trying to subvert Chile. Most of the people he killed were not innocent.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
"my old friend died because of pinchoete so go fuck urself"
I see. I can see why you might be especially emotional about this then. But remember communist regimes have a far worse track record on human rights than ones that are simply authoritarian.
More people would have died with Allende just like far far more people have been killed by Castro than killed by Pinochet. (by an order of ten)
Out of curiosity, what may I ask was your friend doing in Chile?
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
my friend was just protesting , and ur justifying that , to kill people like him because they didn't believe in the government he was more a dictator then anyone else so are u telling me 70% of chile population who know he was a evil dictator are wrong ?!?!?! your thinking too much like a typical american tell me this u probably think iraq has W.O.D.
latinchico22 2 years ago
"he was a evil dictator are wrong ?!?!?!"
In so far as they had supported a worse guy before him yes. Pinochet killed between 10 and 30k people. Communists on average kill 10 times that amount. I'm sorry about your friend, but the fact of the matter is, had we not supported the bad guy the worse guy would be there killing even more. This is unfortunate but that's how it is in foreign policy often times.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
okay so under salvador no one died, he was friends with castro and because of that he was marked .... thats fucking stupid no one died under his few years as president but what he did to was help the country in health care education milk for kids in school and in poverty free milk frooze all prices and still was able to raise salary , yeah thats a evil man ur a fucking clown
latinchico22 2 years ago
Ok very well, it's just that the history of that kind of regime has been very much different.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
thanks for understanding if u want to made look stupid again let me know lol and merry christmas lol
latinchico22 2 years ago
Well it's not stupid entirely. It's just that in your case it was sort of an anomaly. Merry Christmas to you too. :)
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
lol gees i think thats 2 debates that i destroyed u in lol hahahhaha gees ur a fucking clown take some advice and don't talk shit about latin america and especially about shit u don't have a clue about if u weren't there or lived there or experienced it then dont say shit got it thank u
latinchico22 2 years ago
Motherfucker. Have you been to Cuba? Ecuador? Venezuela? Bolivia? Where the fuck do you get your info? Some racist hick in your hometown, or even your house? Or wait, I got it....Fox news!! Read some books for Christ sakes. Or watch some films: Missing, The Revolution Will Not Be Televised, Motorcycle Diaries, .... Oh, by the way...your OWN fucking country won't let you travel to Cuba without the threat of jail and/or fine. I know, because I've been there. Why do you think that is?
Gringosmasher 1 year ago
"Missing, The Revolution Will Not Be Televised, Motorcycle Diaries, ...."
Dude get your fucking hands off our property. It does not belong to you! If you insist you have a right to steal from our corporations we will send in the CIA or the NED to fuck you up.
Yes I know the score. I am not a "dumb racist hick" as you imply. I understand that it is in my rational self-interest to defend the property rights of others because it leads to economic growth and the defense of my own rights.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
Ok, time for facts. Where are your numbers coming from? It is a well known FACT, that at LEAST 6 million people in Latin America have been murdered, tortured, and disappeared in the last half a century. And these included: teachers, union organizers, journalists, and yes, socialists and communists. Everybody who knows ANYTHING about the world knows this. It is Politics 101. It is obvious that US imperialism needs to control the resources in SA and CA. Just like in the Middle East (oil..).
Gringosmasher 1 year ago
"And these included: teachers, union organizers, journalists, and yes, socialists and communists."
Um excuse me, there is a massive difference between murder and killing a communist or socialist fuck who is trying to change the government to violate others rights.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
By Castro? You fucking retard. You are fucking clueless. And look, from gingo to gringo...everybody knows that the biggest terrorist in the world is the US. Hell, "smart" Americans know that our CIA is the dirtiest fucking organization in the world. And what of the School of Americas? I got a recommendation. Go to Cuba, and talk with the Cuban people. You will find that they LOVE Fidel. Most consider him to be like a freakin grandfather. Stop watching the O'Reily factor.
Gringosmasher 1 year ago
"Go to Cuba, and talk with the Cuban people. You will find that they LOVE Fidel."
Really? There happens to be one Hispanic minority in our country that consistently votes 90% Republican. You want to guess which group that is? It's the Cuban-Americans. They do it because they hate Castro's regime.
The ones there might love it because he's got control of the media and education centers (he's got them brainwashed not to know any better)
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
Gringo+smasher eh? You are one bigoted fuck.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
but hey thats the type of asshole u are ,to support the poor getting killed , bishops getting killed supporting death squads killing innocent people , leaving people without rights NEXT TIME DON'T FUCKING OPEN UR DUMB ASS MOUTH ABOUT SHIT IN LATIN AMERICA WHEN U HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE AT ALL NEXT THING U KNOW UR GONNA SAY U SUPPORT Augusto Pinochet and ALL THE SHIT HE DID JUST LIKE UR SUPPORTING HONDURAS COUP AND ROBERTO!
latinchico22 2 years ago
Of course, the man saved Chile. After the CIA discovered that Allende was working with the Soviets, he had to be taken out.
"We can't allow a nation to go communist due to the irresponsibility of it's people." ~Henry Kissinger.
No tell me, why is it that a great many foreign policy experts happen to agree with me on this and not with you?
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
You stupid fascist fuck. Who gives a fuck what you or any other motherfucker think about Allende. He won a majority vote, democratically. If the Chilean people wanted socialism, and wanted to nationalize their industries, taking back their country from private corporations, from capitalism, then so be it. To be against that, which you apparently are, IS THE REAL DEFINITION OF DICTATOR. Because you want it JUST your way, not what the majority wants. Look up DEMOCRACY in the dict.,hypocrite
Gringosmasher 1 year ago
"Who gives a fuck what you or any other motherfucker think about Allende."
LOL the CIA sure did! :)
"If the Chilean people wanted socialism, and wanted to nationalize their industries,"
Fine, but they weren't nationalizing THEIR industries. They were nationalizing OUR industries. Ie. they were stealing from foreign corporations this in turn drives the price up for products here at home.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
Another thing, majority of not, when "the people" vote to violate ones rights then "the people" need to be overthrown. Get it?
"IS THE REAL DEFINITION OF DICTATOR. Because you want it JUST your way, not what the majority wants."
Fuck the majority. If the majority is screwing with my rights then I have every right to tell them to go to hell. The problem with unconstrained democracy lets people vote away others rights. Sorry but if they do that then they DESERVE a Pinochet.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
To give money to women who are expecting , to help them survive , yeah thats terrorist , or giving back ownership to farmers and give them their deeds back yeah thats fucking terrorist , GO FUCK UR SELF U FUCKING ASSHOLE OR HOW BOUT BUILDING PROJECTS FOR HOMELESS YEAH THATS TERRORIST YOU FUCKING DON'T KNOW SHIT MAN U REALLY FUCKING HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THE WAR IN EL SALVADOR WAS ABOUT YOU FUCKING STAR WARS LOSERS
latinchico22 2 years ago
Dude did you read that link I sent you? I wasn't the one to classify the FMLN as a terror group, that was the CIA. And you're a complete idiot if you think you know more about terrorism than the CIA.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
i know more because i am part of the fmln my family is as well , and thanks for sharing what u know lol shows how much u really study lol
latinchico22 2 years ago
Well apparently you didn't know that the group you supported was engaged in terrorist activity. As for it winning elections that doesn't make it inherently good. Remember the Palestinians elected Hamas as well. All that does is create a case with the inmates running the asylum.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
really what are the activities then u jack ass please inform me , because i'm part of it and last i checked all we do is help the poor and help the people of el salvador prove to me this u fucking idioit
latinchico22 2 years ago
And what does the rest of this organization do (and or has done)? Hezbollah gives people in Lebanon social services as well as a de facto government but that doesn't mean they are not a terrorist organization.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
Oh also I've noticed that you've been rather hot-headed throughout. Which is pretty ridiculous considering that you are the one supporting 3rd world dictators not me.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
lol still u haven't answered dumb ass u have nothing do u lol
latinchico22 2 years ago
Answer what? I've answered as much as a can. You're just a giant douchebag who boneheadedly insists that socialism is good and America is bad.
Oh yes, and you don't know much English so you swear a lot.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
What happened was we went to Iraq based on intelligence failures that said there were WMD's and we didn't find any. It's likely that Saddam was bluffing that he had them to scare his opponents and give him more power. When the US got on his tail about it he denied it, but by then he had gone so far to faking it that everyone thought he had them.
Now there are some conspiracy theorists who say that the neocons cooked the intel, but the Silbermann-Robb report debunked that silly nonsense.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
Your portrayal of what actually happened in Iraq is skewed. Go take your tiresome hatred for America somewhere else.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
lol okay then please tell me what happen hahahah u loser i remember i made ul look like a fool before and illl do it again lol
latinchico22 2 years ago
LOL, no you didn't all you did was prove that you cared about communism over property rights. I don't give a rats ass that there are poor people in Venezuala. It is in my rational self-interest to insure that we get cheap gas at the gas station. As such I don't see what the matter is to bomb for stealing our oil. Watch Mr. Cropper's videos on the subject.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
Make no mistake the mans a dictator and wi