Mike Gravel - Sales Tax vs Income Tax

[all028]

Tax me on what I SPEND not on what I EARN. I get that because we have that in Canada. This way everyone pays taxes including organized crime. Sadly, income tax was not abolished but it was cut. A federal sales tax can only be accepted on the condition income tax is abolished.

The bad part about a sales tax is it contributes to an underground economy. People start doing services by cash only and skip the tax

[IslandersMets10]

The most important task of a government is to rais revenu???? are you kidding me!! How about protecting Life, Liberty and Property. Go to Europe with that Mindsent you commi

[timetraveler3797]

Instead of mailing everybody a check for basic goods, just not tax those piticular items and people will have more money imediatly, instead of waiting for a check.

[rlkay001]

Any tax system can be an instrument of tyranny. Look at the income tax, every citizen has to send personal information to the government each year. And if you happened to work oversea's, that information includes which country you were in each and every single day of the year and what your status was on that day, working or on vacation.

The income tax is an abomination. Sales taxes can be bad but the most recent sales tax proposals include a rebate to consumers to make em progressive.

[HGeneAnthony]

One of the arguments I've heard for sales tax is the income the government receives is directly related to consumer spending so if American's spend less, a sign of a bad economy, the government makes less. However, in reality this system does benefit the rich and in this day and age they can import products easily avoiding almost all taxation.

[PairoftheSocks]

You also cant forget that the boom and bust cycle is created from the federal reserve, and our booms and busts would be a lot smaller and quicker without it.

[ourearthhome]

Sales taxes are the instrument of tyranny. The hated British taxes on tea etc. were sales taxes. Every regime that relied on sales taxes including Louis XVI and Czar Alexander II has gone down in flames because it became clear to the people that these taxes allowed the land owning wealthy to avoid taxation of their unearned income from land. Yes, let's untax the wages of labor and earned income from capital but why let the monopoly of land, the earth, go unchallenged. Who is really behind this?

[oldhacks]

theres only two forms of taxation.

income tax or a sales tax.

the progressive sales tax is transparent where we All Pay the Same! how does this not register??

[ourearthhome]

If we must have a sales tax on everything, I would be open to it, if we needed it, only after we collected from owners of land, natural resources and the electro magnetic spectrum the full value the community as a whole confers on these things. Why on earth should we leave the value we all create in the in the hands of a relative few and then make the rest of us pay out of some other pocket for govt. services all of which make land more valuable. How does this not register?

[RapMastaZ]

Income taxes have been around in the US for only about a hundred years. So this is just silly.

[nosupecualponerme]

no mr the mos important task of the goverment its to ovey the people no to impose it or explot them,the goverment dont need revenue the people need the revenue,and not we dont need no sales taxes.we need to be free of this slavist system

[scarmiglione1221]

Gravel's Tax Policy makes since. Now that the government is not punishing productivity there will be more money for consumpution meaning that the govern ment will collect more revenue. This is a part of gravels platform i fully agree with

[teejay1618]

Is Gravel for socialized healthcare? If he is, he has no place in the Libertarian Party.

[Kajayacht]

whoo-whooo here comes the clue train

last time I checked, it isn't 1950 anymore

lets think for a minute, could you go halfway around the world in a few hours in the 50's

did we have TV, and internet and outsourcing in the 50's

fact is this isn't the 50's, the 1950's ended a long time ago

don't know exactly how long but it was a long time ago, look it up it was a long time ago

[xforsakensoulx]

This could potentially be as bad as the income tax. Seeing that the income tax goes against the constitution, I don't see why we have to replace it. All of the money we are currently giving to the federal reserve is basically completely unaccounted for. All of the other taxes go to funding America(Or, most of it I should say), but when we pay income tax, the money basically disappears. why not just give Americans back their money?

[nowellian]

Good let the corporate fascist leave, just nationalise their assets before they go.

Tax the rich!

They already took the good jobs to China for cheap labor anyway!

Nader in 08!

[krakatau666]

If you tax the rich 91% then the 350 billionaires in the US and their businesses will leave, as well as the 10 million millionaires in the country, and you know what, there goes your job and any potential for progress. And if government jobs give you a hardon, well then, look no further than soviet russia. That sure worked out great....NOT!!!

[nowellian]

National Sales Tax???

Get real, tax the rich!

Redistribute the wealth back to the working class after all we are the ones doing the work and you would have nothing without us!

National sales tax is a major Republican talking point - no way!

[krakatau666]

but you wouldn't have jobs if it wasn't for the rich to create them for you. Who would provide the capital for creating products? The working class certainly couldn't afford it. And why do you think the rich don't work or do anything? Do you have any idea how much more the average upper middle class or rich person works? Like 24 hours a day, they work even when they're sleeping.

[vwlf]

No, actually, the government can create jobs, like FDR did when he taxed the rich to bring this country out of the great depression. No one should have to work 24/7; when we've made it so that everyone has a living wage and 6 weeks paid vacation, they wont'; and we will have a full employment economy without the super-rich.

[Kajayacht]

whoa whoa wait just a minute

the government can create jobs?

so you want the kind of capitalism where the government employs everyone and decides wages and where there's no rich or poor just middle class and nothing's good for anyone just equally shitty for everyone

yeah they have a name for that, it's called Communism.

[vwlf]

No, it is called democratic socialism; it is non-authoritarian, it is popular, democratic, and it works, as exemplified by a proven history in Scandinavia. Qualitative data shows it provides a vastly higher quality of life than america does - so your words of "shitty" really stand for nothing.

[Kajayacht]

ahh socialism the watered down precursor to communism

ok then

so you want the kind of economy where no one has any incentive to work hard

where stuff is made with poor quality

I went to a socialist country once had a very great experience with a bus driver

he decided he didn't really want to mess with gears so he just left it in 4 gear the whole time

i told him it's not good for the bus he said "well, if the bus breaks they'll give me a new one"

and who will pay for it? everyone else

[vwlf]

No, democratic socialism is the third way, and it's catching on; I guess you'll be left behind with your reliance on vapid, immature anecdotes and your hatred of the poor.

[Kajayacht]

Ha let me tell you something I am anywhere from rich

I make $6.35 an hour working at Quiznos as a shift leader

I'm paying my way through college (with help from a scholarship {due to hard work})

i pay for my car, gas, insurance

if socialism were to "help" anyone it'd be me

thing is most people look on the surface and think "easy jobs, good pay, sign me up"

fact is there's no incentive to work hard in socialism

and while a few like me will work hard, there will be thousands more who don't

[Kajayacht]

it's popular because it means no one has to work hard or compete with anyone

you go up to anyone and ask them would they rather have to do more or do less they'll say less

of course they're only thinking in the short run

and it's that kind of thinking that's causing the problem with illegal immigrants

if you lose your job to an immigrant, he was probably a better worker then you

i know i do my job better then anyone (immigrant or not) because i work hard

which is what capitalism is about

[d3p3ch3mod3]

Hey Kaj, I'd like to know if you think that countries need some degree of social democratic policies at all.

For example, people who are mentally retarded. Do you really believe that the rich will volunteer their money for those people in every scenario?

[Kajayacht]

social policies should be as limited as possible.

And as far as the mentally handicapped, some rich people would donate, most probably wouldn't.

And honestly, why should the government be forcing people to donate? Because they need it? Jeez, I don't know about you, but I always gave the mentally handicapped more credit then that. I guess you want them to have full time babysitters.

Everyone is disabled if you think hard enough, I have bad depth perception, where's my check?

[d3p3ch3mod3]

Some mentally handicapped and physicly challenged people DO need full time babysitters. Have you ever even met anyone who was too disabled to work? I'm not talking about disability leave or "crazy check" entitlement programs, I'm talking about paraplegics, the elderly, cancer patients, the severely brain damaged, etc. Even under the Fair Tax, you're forcing people to donate to the general welfare of the country. As for depth perception - that's a slippery slope argument, right?

[Kajayacht]

Hey, you don't know how hard it is to have bad depth perception.

I can't tell you how many times I've been driving and went to make a turn, see a car in the distance and I'm thinking it's way too close for me to make that turn

8 seconds later I realize ok I could've definantly made it, but not anymore

Then the people behind me get mad and they honk it's horrible.

So horrible that I want someone funded by the government to do all my driving for me.

Sounds crazy I know.

[Kajayacht]

And there are some people who do need full time babysitters. Problem is, our tax money isn't just going to them it's also going to the people who may have it tougher then others but could still very well provide for themselves.

The problem is, how disabled do you have to be to need government handouts?

We have a minimum wage in this country, the minimum wage is what's needed to live. Doesn't matter how disabled you are, you work, you make at least $5.85 an hour.

[Kajayacht]

If that person truly can't work, (and I say each case should be assesed on an individual basis, no big sweeping guidlines) then they should get roughly at least $234 (40 hours at $5.85 an hour) a week plus a little extra for the costs of the extra care they need (also determined on an individual basis).

But if that person is well enough to work, then they don't need government handouts.

[sickliberal]

what are you trying to prove? my friend works with both mentally and physically disabled children. do you think sending them a check would mean taking sufficient care of them? you're sweeping generalisations around yourself. based on a cynical view of people i might add. where are the hordes of lazy unemployed? isn't it more reasonable to be concerned with the military industrial complex and big banks who dont get handed out hundreds of dollars but hundreds of billions?

[sickliberal]

because both sensible socialists and libertarians are against socialism by and for the ELITE

[sgsfdgfsdfsdfsddf]

Libertarian and Socialism are not that different the first Libertarians were communist

[flynn2008]

@sgsfdgfsdfsdfsddf

Libertarian in the traditional European terms means socialism.

[pash210]

Now that bush is gone the world will be saved

[MarkDouglasC]

Mike is a nice guy - but he is wrong -- to the point of being goofy -- on this FairTax. Of course our current tax system is a crock -- Mike is right, totally. Especially workers are bing screwed.  But Mike's solution isnt right. This is like shooting yourself in the jaw with a 22, when you really need a root canal.

[Diskatopia]

Sorry, Mike, I can'r support raising the taxes of working families (those making between $27,000 and $200,000) while giving Paris Hilton and Bill Gates a tax cut.

The National Sales Tax, to be revenue neutral, will have to raise more taxes from the Middle Classes.

[Antreges]

While I'm not supporting him (I'm Canadian) He's insinuating that the government should abolish taxes as you know it. Then tax you (most likely the same rate if not more) using sales taxes. I say insinuate because he could just as easily tax you more than you are now. He's got an idea, maybe a good one, but he doesn't address some of your more important issues like healthcare and poverty.

[krakatau666]

you're insane, the rich pay less tax anyway, as do corporations. With the NST, everyone will pay a tax rate for products they buy and use. If you buy expensive shit and a lot of it, then you'll pay more tax. If you don't buy expensive crap then less tax you pay and more money for you from your income.

[Dams19]

We obviously differ in our politics (I'm more radically left) but what you say makes sense in the context of what's possible as opposed to what I would ideally like to happen. If you're going to raise revenue, that certainly does sound more progressive, especially given that it would afford a minimal right to everyone to the basic necessities.

[scharb]

Wouldn't a higher sales tax discourage transactions and thereby harm economic growth? People will be too hesitant to buy anything. It would benefit the rich who hoard their money, and harm the lower class who need to spend most of their money for cost of living.

[AdleyJulian]

Look at it this way. Imagine I either tax half your income or double the cost of goods. Either way your buying power is the same so it shouldn't affect your spending. Consumption tax however makes it so that those who make money illegally or through capital gains are taxed at the same rates as everyone else.

[lowellriggsiam]

In the past countries grew wealthy by acuisition of new lands and their resources. Since that is no longer possible existing countries are being forced to tax themselves into prosperity to cover the cost of inflation. Time for a new law, for every tax increase a plan is needed to reverse it in the end.

[mbwardle]

Boring, but a good description of how a "fair tax" would work, including details of a monthly rebate. (Could it really be $500 a month? That sounds way high.)

[k2dart]

Illumined1 you are wrong.

Income tax does apply to most people. The IRS wants a cut of any earnings over $600 total in a year! The fact that credits and loopholes exist only speaks to the inefficiency and complications of the system we've got. The stack of tax code is mostly tax breaks for special interests, not for average americans. Its a corrupt system for interests wealthy enough to get their tax breaks legislated.

[illumined1]

This candidate is a retard. Income tax DOES NOT apply to most American citizens earning wages from their employers and sales tax is not a federal matter, it is a state matter. This candidate is senile if he thinks he can do anything about these issues.

[weuteweute]

Go to Fairtax(dot)org & read the details of this policy before you start debating the details. THIS TAX WILL APPLY TO ALL NEWLY MANUFACTURED GOODS & SERVICES. It is paid by the original WHOLESALER & carries all the way through the system down to the consumer. You can't get around paying it by buying things off the web. If the tax is paid before it leaves the dock in the factory then how could you the end consumer get around paying it by purchasing off the web?

[Notsplane]

Ron Paul is against Internet regulation and Internet taxation. Ron Paul will also elimate income tax. Please vote for him.

[GodlessLitany]

Ron Paul would also take away a woman's right to choose what to do with her own body, and is not strongly in support of equal rights for all Americans of all sexualities. Mike Gravel is a better candidate and better person.

[mattyp32975]

Ron Paul cant "take away" your rights! However, he can protect the life of an unborn child. Regardless, he believes this debate is best left to the states & it is my understanding that woman can vote in all states. Could you please explain how Dr.Paul fails to "strongly" support equal rights based on sex or anything else for that matter?

Please back up your accusations & check your facts before slandering someone. God bless Mike Gravel, I hope he does well & support him in his efforts!

[GodlessLitany]

You just twisted the abortion comment around-it's the same thing. I'm not faulting him SOLELY on that, but I find it very hard to support a 'pro-life' politician. And I believe it's a federal matter, personally, because if it's left to the states it's easier for the majority to oppress the minority. (c)

[GodlessLitany]

His comment on "Don't Ask Don't Tell" being 'decent' is enough to allude to where he stands on gay rights-I don't think he's a homophobe or anything, but people like Gravel have actually said something for gay rights. But, if you want concrete evidence-he voted against same-sex couples adoption rights in 1999 in DC. That's his only faulty vote, but it is something.

[uterfan]

Ron Paul is trying to do exactly that, take away rights. He wrote the "We The People Act" (H.R. 400) and has tried to pass it on three occasions. Ron Paul is a deceiver, trusting him is very foolish. Remember he IS republican, he votes 75% of the time with his fellow republicans. And Paul has missed over 20% of his votes.

[krakatau666]

Ron Paul is more american than any of your insane socialist ideas. Yes he is republican, just like Lincoln was, unlike that liberal FDR who blatantly lied and illegally introduced the income tax. And Ron Paul cares very much about the constitution, something very few republicans and certainly most democrats care aboutl.

[suckitjesus2]

Ron Paul is a selfish isolationist, not to mention a racist and homophobe. He wants states to be able to decide on civil rights. He sucks!

[Notsplane]

In addition to Internet control, it will cause air pollution. Internet shopping will reduce air pollution because you don't have to drive all the way to the store to buy something. But taxing the Internet would reduce Internet shopping.

[Notsplane]

First, income tax is eliminated, so sales tax will be much higher. Because of the higher sales tax, people will buy more things off the Internet because there are no taxes on the Internet. As more and more people buy off the Internet instead of going to stores, the government would tax the Internet to raise money. Addition to taxing, the government will control more and more on the Internet. As more and more government control, things such as Internet censorship would take over.

[Notsplane]

If FairTax is enacted, then Internet regulation would be inevitable and air pollution would escalate.

[Notsplane]

Vote for Ron Paul.

[Notsplane]

The richest 1% pay 36% of the taxes. It is unfair for the rich and decreases economic growth.

[classic14rider]

Gravel is right; we need a simple and fair system of taxation (that includes tax prebates for basic necessities -- but why not just make these flat-out tax exempt?)instead of paying all that money to H&R Block to figure out the convuluted tax code while the rich slide through with endless loopholes.

[killertofu123]

because lobbyists will "convince" legislators that their item is "necessary" and will want it to be tax free. this wil drive up the tax rate for everyone if more and more things arent taxed.

[RSDarksbane]

I should have known better than to try to instill rationality into the masses that plague youtube. Nevermind, you win, whatever.

[johnmurray7]

A petition to media outlets to LET GRAVEL SPEAK! go sign! thepetitionsite (dot) com/takeaction/353526057

[medley007]

Thanks To You For ANOTHER Informative video Of Mike Gravel,that makes sense and it to the point. I wish You well, I see Gravel and Paul are Truly Concerned for Our great Country.

Mike Gravel and Ron Paul would Make a GREAT Running Team!!! A Truly Bi-Partisan Team ;-)

"Peace whenever Posssible, Anything is."

Medley

[RSDarksbane]

Companies raise prices to increase their bottom lines and do their level best to maintain that margin when they are taxed. Therefore, taxes ARE included in the products by the very nature of what the market does bear.

[RSDarksbane]

Even if you CONFISCATED all the wealth of the richest in this country, you could not continue to feed the beast that our federal government has become for long. There are too many loopholes and kickbacks in the current system to make even your proposal manageable.

[mystykit]

This is less about statistics and more about freedom. I didn't support the national sales tax when Forbes wanted it, but what Mike says is the truth. The powers that be oppose this because they want control and hava an easy way to fleece everyone. The wealthy should support it, they would come out ahead too. As it is, they are too dumb to realize they are digging their own graves with their interference in govt.

[DblOSmith]

This is the 1% of Mike Gravel that I absolutely disagree with. Less government spending, less pork, more responsibility with the spending, kill the rich tax breaks, kill the subsidies to company making billions and end this war. We would have more than enough money to make things happen.

[Input1914]

so bread would cost $10

[floating00eye]

no...assuming a 23'24% sales tax, bread would need to cost about $8.15 per unit to cost $10. elementary math...

[Input1914]

I wasn't giving a serious estimate jackass....either way consumer goods would cost way to much and this would cause the value of the dollar to decrease quite significantly.

[incarnadine256]

Everything would cost more, but it wouldn't matter because that money wouldn't be taken out of your pay check for the income tax.

[kashmirkid]

Let me get this straight, Gravel wants to eliminate a tax and put in a more efficient helpful tax. Am I right? Am I even close? So this is pro new world order/one world government then? Someone show me the coorelation plainly.

[livanletliv]

fair tax? C'mon....A Slave is a Slave is a Slave. A tax is a Tax is a Tax. The founding fathers fought the revolution because of a "sales tax" imposed by England on stamps, tea. commodities, etc, etc. This national sales tax plan fits nicely with the REAL ID/Microchipping plan. You'll have to swipe your NATIONAL ID/MICROCHIP for any and every transaction/purchase you make to have the sales tax debited from your government account. THIS IS TYRANNY

TOTAL SURVEIILANCE AND SLAVERY.

[ambientdiscord]

what the hell are you talking about? the tax is built into the cost of the product.

[randomdude90]

I was kind of on the fence on this issue but you make good points. It would be good if the sales tax percentage went up by the cost of the item. For example, a $15 stapler would have maybe 10% sales tax but a $2000 tv set would have 30%.

[Rydax2]

That would be an exception. It would open the door to too many ways for people to cheat the system.

[Dumbell99]

Its too bad real candidates like Mike and Ron Paul will probably never get to the white house. People are brainwashed and will keep voting for corporate controlled Dems and Repubs.

[Rydax2]

That is why Mike is calling on us to Un-brainwash them. Let the know about Mike and show them the truth.

[Dumbell99]

Oh I do...but its almost as if people are TRULY brainwashed. Their eyes gloss over and they say "Well that would be nice, but he will never make it". The common theme is when the media tells them not to vote for certain candidates they don't...BRAINWASHED:)

[Rydax2]

rediculous isn't it? I know what you mean though.. I've got to bludgen people to try and get them to care and it still doesn't always work.

[Rydax2]

All my below posts link together.. stupid 500 character rule.

[tagged123]

Not to mention we all know a sales tax is a tax on the poor. So what if goods are 23% cheaper? The extremely poor now, don't pay many taxes at all, especially if they have children to feed. This makes their BASIC NEEDS take up a huge portion of their income.

Not to mention that the rich, who can survive on the same amount of food and clothing as the poor, will be paying a much smaller percent.

"Fair Tax" is a horrendous misnomer.

[evoneal]

he adressed that by saying you get rebates on necessities you fool. but sales tax is definietly regressive without a patch, i dont know why he keeps saying this. look at a macroeconomics textbook.

[Rydax2]

The rich buy things the poor can't, which would cause them to pay more. I buy a $10,000 I pay like, $2,300 in tax, a rich person buys a $45,000 car, they pay $10,350 in tax.

[tagged123]

And I addressed the "pre-bates" in my second comment, you fool. This is such a ludicrous idea, why don't you figure out how a consumer driven economy works, and what happens when people stop buying products.

[Rydax2]

When people stop buying products? We are talking about America are we not? Where do you get the idea people are going to stop buying things? That is just ludicris.

[Rydax2]

It's not like our tax system works now.. Unless maybe you cheat it like jump out a tree and then I guess you like the current tax system.

[tagged123]

HAHAHA A check once a month?!? What a joke, the IRS can barely keep up with doing it once a year, let alone once a month. Can you imagine if you moved? Or a million other things? And trying to go through that bureaucratic nonsense to get your "pre-bate" check so you could afford to buy food? This is the most cracked idea I have heard all year.

[evoneal]

why dont they just make it so food isnt taxed.

[Rydax2]

The way I see it they pay a lot more than me. Plus the richer the person, the more likely to buy more expensive clothes, food, furniture, etc... It would pan out on a whole..

[Rydax2]

The whole idea is to get rid of the IRS, totally. With the fair tax things would be transparent and uncomplicated. There would be all the buureaucratic nonsense to get stuff in the way. The tax system would be worked out and all the bugs possible fixed before it was passed.

[evoneal]

i think tagged is right actually, this is going to make a bunch of beaucracy on its own.

[blue4eyes20]

The poor manage to get food stamps why would they not be able to get the prebate. There will be no more IRS so they don't need to keep track of anything lol. It also saves the tax payer 200 billion a year in taxes paid to IRS and 270 billon payed by us to companies like H&R Block..

[hellsunicorn]

I agree in principle with this proposal, although I think 23% is a tiny bit too high. It is, however, a constitutional tax proposal, which is more than what I can say for the system that everyone else (minus Ron Paul) supports.

[jumpoutatree]

If this proposal was passed, I would flat out crushed. I only pay about 10% of my income to the fed right now, and I get about half of it back in the form of a refund. The other half of my income is made in cash, off the books. A 23% sales tax on everything? That would destroy low income people.

[evoneal]

watch the whole video?

[Rydax2]

Sure if someone makes more than me and spends as much as me, then they would have more at the end of the year, but since they make more than me, and are sensible enough to spend only what they must, then they deserve too. I don't see anything wrong with that. AS for the basic needs things, well they get a prebate, and if they need it so bad they would make sure to make the arrangements to get it, even if they must move.

[jumpoutatree]

This would result in low-wage earners being seriously deterred frrom purchasing anything other than a basic necessity, which would wreck the economy in short order. Even with the prebate, I would still end up paying more in taxes under this proposal and wealthy individuals would end up paying far less.

[Rydax2]

You would be more in taxes because you don't pay what you're supposed to no. The prebate would take care of the basic needs of the poor without them spending their income.

[OD533]

A flat sales tax is ultimately not fair for average Americans and is ultimately regressive. Even with the "average American income" deduction, average people will suffer compared to the wealthy few. Those earning millions and billions can would not have to pay as much in taxes than they would under a progressive income tax because they can just save and invest all their income.

[OD533]

If I made $100k+ and spent only $50k per hear, the entire rest of my income would not be taxed! I could make $1b/yr and spend only $10m/yr and have 99% of my income not be taxed. Oh the glory. Also, you can only eat

[Renegen1]

I don't know what you're talking about. The money is taxed depending on how you acquired it. If you acquired it through income, it's taxed, no matter how you choose to use it. If you acquire it through capital gains, it's taxed. What's not taxed is 401k plans, but the money is THEN taxes once you take it out of the fund.

[OD533]

so much food and wear so many clothes every year since not every millionaire goes on a shopping spree on a daily basis. Plus, they can also go out of the country to buy their luxury items. Why buy jewelry here in the US with a 23% sales tax when you can go to Canada, Europe or anywhere else to get it for so much cheaper? Also, I doubt the that flat sales tax will generate as much revenue as the current tax system does when every does begin to save.

[OD533]

Who knows, but with out the strong consumer sales, the economy might just go into a recession and also might cause a global recession seeing how much the world depends on the US's hunger for goods and services.

[evilpied]

I like that he just explains his policies.

He seems like the guy that will say what he's gonna do and then just do it.

[investortownhall]

#1 lower govt.spending and lower taxes. #2 Fair for who? The rich get another jumbo tax cut while most retirees pay under 15% FT get at tax double to 30%! baby-boomers get to pay extra 30% on nursing home, drugs,medical and food in retirement. #3 Most goods are made out side USA there will be no 23% lower price! No major corporation has promised to move any plants back to USA if this passes.

[bbburton]

I disagree with you. The most important task the governemtn has is to protect and defend the constitution. Remember, the constitution is a document that protects the citizens from government. The ability to tax is spelled out in the constitution along with the legal means by which the federal governnment may raise taxes.

[Trying2bPerfect]

How does it do that without money ?

[PureEvilJester]

true but there are laws which restrict what kind of tax. And Income tax is the type of tax deemed unconstitutional and illegal.

[investortownhall]

The Fair-Tax is very unfair to retiring Baby Boomers. People who have paid 1/4 or 1/3 of their income in taxes for 40 years will now have to pay another 1/3 on all the after tax income they've managed to put aside for retirement. Every time Boomers buy anything with their lifelong savings, they'll be double taxed. And the 23% is a LIE in the book it is a 30% National Sales Tax + X% local sales tax. The Fair-Tax proponents use math tricks, they know 23% sounds far better than the 30% truth.

[annarboriter]

His suggestion is just as bureaucratic as the IRS and without the direct benefits of a carbon tax consumption tax. Tax policy is social policy, plain and simple. Taxation has the potential to engineer an economy that benefits all people and restores the carrying capacity of the planet.

[CreamyP]

Ron Paul has much to say regarding the Federal Reserve.

[investortownhall]

This concept may be an excellent tax idea. But talk show host Neal Boortz who has no tax, business or economic background wrote this Book. Are we all convinced he has delivered a "free-lunch"? Do we believe business will lower product cost 22% when the stuff is made in china not the USA! Laurence Vance a noted economist and accountant discuss the issues beyond the vote getting hype.

[gtothreg]

They are made in China because they cost to much to make here.  This would give US companies better a advantage and start bring jobs back here.

[UnklRudi]

Our lack of production isn't related to taxation, it is from the outsourcing of manufacturing. I would also feel much more confident in Gravel and Paul if either would talk about the abolishing The Fed and/or getting AIPAC out of our foreign policy. But I am probably jumping the gun.

[billadama]

Do people and businesses from other countries have to pay this huge sales tax on all products? Do they pay sales tax right now? (I honestly don't know) That might hurt us in the global marketplace.

[datniggaking206]

So where do our fed income tax go thats taken out from my check every week

[feerbase]

Any way, all roads lead to Henry George. Read Progress and Poverty, you don't need another theory of what the "least bad tax" is. Henry George already figured it out for us. Read it, its only like 60 pages and available online for free.

[feerbase]

But if you don't have a problem with a perpetual direct tax on all American's and your real problem is with the complexity of the tax code draining society, then we're defending two different things.

[feerbase]

as opposed to you being able to keep your money up front then file and pay. The fact that they now give your money back to you instead of you deciding how much you want to give them, although key, is really secondary to the fact that's it violates the apportionment condition of the constitution. Read Henry George, much better solution, and simpler.

[feerbase]

HatTricksInc, the system still penalizes productive members of society. This is the essence in my view of the problem. It's still an income tax, whether it's filed under witholding or as a sales tax makes no difference to the company filing it. It does however mean that the government will collect your money first 'then' give you a refund.. cont'd

[joeystockdale]

I like the idea of being taxed on what I spend and not on what I earn. No tax would be swell but I like paved roads, clean water, safe food, firepeople etc. Gravel plan is reasonable and I'm sure tweakable. How about a compromise and get Ron and Gravel to run on the same ticket?

[SKITTZ0]

Mike Gravel for President & Ron Paul for Vice President, since Dennis Kucinich supports violating the 2nd amendment.

[feerbase]

A tax up to the full rental value of the unimproved value of a property is the least bad tax and the only tax that will ever have the potential as functioning as a single tax. Progressive tax is great on "things" but not on people. Why should you be more heavily taxed the more productive you are? Read Henry George.

[feerbase]

...it must be apportioned among the states, aka everyone should pay it equally. This is the position of the founding fathers and its wisdom and foresight I think has been missed. I mister Gravel really wants to talk about a fair and simple tax policy he need only read Henry George's Progress and Poverty, the blueprint is already there and was written over 120 years ago...cont'd

[feerbase]

I liked Gravel first video I saw and now less and less the more I hear. Ron Paul is leaps and bounds beyond him. Not just because of Ron Paul's view on the Federal Reserve, but because of Gravel's views on sales tax vs income tax. Generalized sales tax is nothing but an indirect income tax. It is not direct tax unless you tax specific goods. In other words, a free citizen must be able to legally avoid paying the tax, that is the primary point. If he cannot avoid paying it,...cont'd

[feerbase]

I liked Gravel first video I saw and now less and less the more I hear. Ron Paul is leaps and bounds beyond him. Not just because of Ron Paul's view on the Federal Reserve, but because of Gravel's views on sales tax vs income tax. Generalized sales tax is nothing but an indirect income tax. It is not direct tax unless you tax specific goods. In other words, a free citizen must be able to legally avoid paying the tax, that is the primary point. If he cannot avoid paying it...cont'd

[HatTricksInc]

The way in which The Fair Tax avoids this problem is by giving every citizen a monthly prebate that covers the average amount of sales tax you'll pay for the cost of living, basic neccessities. This way, sense the tax you pay for the basics you get back monthly, you only pay tax when you choose to by buying this or that. Also, you can avoid paying tax by buying used items, which are not taxed, as new items are with the Fair Tax.

[HatTricksInc]

Therefore with The Fair Tax every American citizen is able to legally avoid paying taxes, and can simply save their money, or buy used products etc.

The only taxes you'll pay, will be of your personal choosing. Although many will FREELY choose to do so, including a middle class male like myself.

So it's still sounds good to me.

[1Starheart]

In Massachussetts we now have to pay tax on thrift store purchases.  We pay tax when we earn it, and tax when we spend it. And no matter how good (or bad) these ideas may be, the chances of getting them through Congress seem pretty slim.

[Rydax2]

That is where the National Initiative comes in. He wouldn't ask congress to pass it, he would ask the American people.

[Rydax2]

If they don't like it then there would be nothing he could do, he wouldn't and couldn't force it on the people. He is proposing a better way of doing things for the American public, not stating a policy that he would pass no matter what. With the National Initiative it would be up to us to it. He would just tell us why he believes it is a better system of Taxation. All the economists and such would weigh in before it would ever come to a vote.

[evoneal]

yea. if people dont like the tax then it will become clear and it can be repealed. right now theres so many loopholes - he should speak more about the abuses of the current tax system to make this point.

[Rydax2]

Everything MUST be taxed, even food and basic necessities, because if they make one exception then more will follow, and the people who cheat the system now will still be able to cheat it, and then the honest people will suffer. It's all in the video and the posts on his web site.

[evoneal]

good point

[rdh250]

the thing about the sales tax is that it's regressive, not progressive. although everyone pays the same rate, poor people pay more of their income on taxable goods than rich people and cannot afford to pay high sales taxes. i would say a better idea is to remove the tax cuts on the top 1%

[DblOSmith]

Exactly my point. Sales tax is regressive no matter how you slice it. I agree RDH.

[daveyork0]

Interesting how his head lists to the right in all the latest videos he released.

He's putting his ideas out there. Fiscal reforms.

Come the next debate it's OK for him to show his anger about the Iraq war and the misguidance in foreign relations. Will he show some other emotional range - enthusiasm and charisma - in addressing other issues?

There he is: The Man Who Killed The Draft (many moons ago).

[gmfutube]

You need a longer video with example number to make this clearer to most people. Give more details on the pre-bate and proposed rate of sales tax.

Will the sales tax rate be the same for all category of goods?

[qwerty4197]

Il ike this idea

[Yogizilla]

Keeping money within our borders.. I like it! I love the prebate concept. It makes sense. Taxing people on money they earn always seemed like a weird way of punishing the employed. I hope this system surfaces!!

[Atari26]

LOVE the idea. Thank you for the videos, it's makes trying to help get your message out to others much easier. Trying to do my part to help. Thanks again.

[CIACoupsofTerrorism]

Interesting video.