R.D. Laing from the BBC documentary "The Trap"

[02Blackbeard]

The vast majority of people in "authority" are nothing but self-serving shills.

[MrZiai]

Linking R.D. Laing with the political right is just pure stupidity.

[nakedmambo]

@MrZiai That's not what he does in this series. He looks at Lang to show the gradual change of how social interaction is perceived. Lang appeared to reach the same conclusion that people are basically cunning and manipulative and pursue self-interest. The anti-psychiatry movement could be extrapolated to any authority; for the libertarian economists to so-called "big government".

Lang was also very influential and his views must have filtered into other areas of thought, even economics.

[shanyin1234]

8:40 Alan watts?

[billesq1]

an unbelievable assertion that R D Laing's work is somehow tied to the neo-right Friedman/chicago school of economics is made in this film. Laing was trying to change the cage in which people lived in order to enrich it. Friedman and co. were trying to change the cage to empower profiteers - big difference!! The narration of this documentary is scandalous!!

[theRebels3]

@billesq1 I don't think he's trying to suggest Laing was motivated by the goal of free-market economics.

[MurpCamEy]

What documentary is this from? I think this is a wonderful clip and that many others would do well to open up to the writings of Laing. This documentary clearly goes sour at 7:30.

[1815brian]

He neglected and/or abused his own wives and children, of which he had many -

9 children by several different women, if I'm right - multitudinous affairs - and yet he was seen as a radical new authority on this issue somehow. What a drunken, drug-addled hypocrite. I do hope Robert Carlyle doesn't agree to play him in a film, or if he does, that this is brought out, and not just in the Divided Self sense - but in the monstrous hypocritical sense which defined the whole of Laing's life.

[1815brian]

Laing though against the previous wrong-headed methods of ECT, lobotomy etc, never cured any schizophrenics, manic depressives - psychotics in general - he blamed family upbringing and abuse, which existed and still does - but it is not the cause of psychotic illness, which is neurological and/or genetic. He then became a monomaniacal emperor of the media psychiatric world, where no one dared tell him he wasn't wearing any clothes anymore, a guru of a cult, and a monster himself in the end.

[CocteauDalighari]

@1815brian To insist that there is psychotic illness AND that it is neurol./genet. in origin is THE supreme definition of 1) totalitarianism & 2) personal irresponsibility. I'm gonna guess it wasn't your intent to erase freedom from the world, but that's exactly what you've done. Nice of you to replace the monomaniacal emperor w/ an unnamed tyrant: "There, that's MUCH better."

[1815brian]

@CocteauDalighari 'Ordinary' people's character is formed by a complex inter-mixture of genes & experience or nature & nurture. We have control & freedom of the will to varying degrees and responsibility for our own actions. Psychotics I believe have a genetic mutation or neurological damage - yes, their tyrant if you like - and so sufferers have diminished control and responsibility. I don't think by saying this I've erased all freedom from the world. & psychosis is not the only psyc illness.

[CocteauDalighari]

@1815brian The problem w/ the whole genet. mutation/neurol. damage notion is that no one is actually diagnosed on those bases: psychotics, schizophrenics, neurotics are diagnosed based on behavior or conduct. Experiments done in the hunt for the genet. mutation are done long after the subjects are diagnosed; long after they've been patients. Given that there is a genet. mutation or many, it remains a post-diagnostic discovery.

[logotrix]

Brilliant. 

[utubekingg]

interesting, but dont know if i actually believe this

[Ignozi]

Sounds like a conspiracy theory.

"The system is against you. Trust no one, even your own family could be out to get you"

Then what is left?

Live your life in constant fear of others? That has Hobbesian undertones to it. Much like his description of the state of nature.

[meanmrmustard89]

Any idea what the music at 02:22 is?

[jazzmunky]

@meanmrmustard89 Tchaikovsky's Pathetique symphony?? possibly.

[CrazyAP75]

@meanmrmustard89 IT's from the score to Hitchcock's North by Northwest by Bernard Herrmann

[lenlemp]

Unfortunately if as one of the comments suggests schizophrenics are seriously ill and need medication then how come the most successful longterm treatment for this illness which is called the Open Dialogue technique has been developed in Finland and involves therapist working intensively with the patient and their families. Very seldom are patients hospitalized or medicated. The longterm recovery rate blows the US mental health system out of the water. Search for Open Dialogue on youtube.

[julesthemadman]

I agree

[musicalidea]

@JSS64 He would just be marginalized - as he was in his own era - like all anti-establishmentarians are in all times. The powerful elite control the majority of the monkeys with promises of petty rewards & distinctions, to pit them against the other monkeys. Of the few monkeys that protest, most are dismissed as silly, jealous, disgruntled or overly-idealistic. The rest of the uncompliant are forcibly silenced or removed. Revolution can occur, but always too late & never far enough.

[TheCommunalSolution]

@reglaing Just because someone got something or maybe even a lot (wrong), I see no reason to discount what they might have gotten right. I see a lot of people reaching for the truth or understanding; few get it all right and some manage to get some of it. I think RD Laing uncovered some interesting and important information or realities. I see him as at least questioning and trying.

[Scrumpilump2000]

Is that Alan Watts at 8:40 ish???

[Paseosinperro]

@Scrumpilump2000 I think so...mmmm Im just investigating Laing and i felt stange about the fact of seing him with AW, I dont find him very honest and sane man

[Scrumpilump2000]

@Paseosinperro Which one don't you find honest and sane, Laing or Watts?

[Paseosinperro]

@Scrumpilump2000 watts. I dont mean he is a liar, but I say that he didnt live up to what he talks. I see a big gap between what he said and how he lived

[fishintheflow]

The entire series is available in full on Google Video

[hamfisto]

Interesting. Ends kind of abruptly. Is the next part up?

[joemoonblue]

Adam Curtis and R.D.Laing imagine if they could have made a film together!!

both geniuses

[whiff1962]

This group of twelve women returning to their former institutional selves, is no surprise. Erving Goffman wrote of this, as does Thomas Szasz and Thomas Scheff. So much for the merits of involuntary institutional commitment. Many slaves would find themselves returning to the plantation after being set free. This is one of the consequences of being immersed in an institution, and being desocialized over time.

[CocteauDalighari]

What is the music that comes up @about 2 min.? Same music is used thruout the Hitchcock movie North by Northwest.

[davidsinfield]

I love the idea of applying game theory and point scoring in families and relationships. And I also see how much worse the 'system' has become since Laing did his work and how much the 'system' relies on FUD to assert its control. Scary stuff - means things are getting worse not better.

Am I the only one who keeps seeing Lonely from Callan ;)