Failed. not even ur 1st fact is correct. Mongol is not part of Mongolia. Everything is different such as language, scripts, culture. what else u gonna say from ur bad smelled mouth
"However, the Chinese government still needs to do more to expose the true nature of the political and religious regime of Old Tibet," said Liu.
Maybe he should do more to expose what was happening in China at the same time.
Maybe he should do more to expose the current situation in China where dissension is not tolerated, where 52% of the population still live on under $2.00 per day.
Unwilling to lose the privileges they enjoyed in the feudal serfdom society of old Tibet, some lamas have been the initiators of riots or other violent incidents in the region, according to a Tibetologist, who lived and worked in Tibet for 26 years.
"However, the Chinese government still needs to do more to expose the true nature of the political and religious regime of Old Tibet," said Liu.
Maybe he should do more to expose what was happening in China at the same time.
Maybe he should do more to expose the current situation in China where dissension is not tolerated, where 52% of the population still live on under $2.00 per day.
"Lama in Tibetan language means a person with morals and cultivation. In average people's eyes, lamas should just chant, abide by religious vows and promote Buddhism, the essence of which is being nice to others," said the Tibetologist Liu Wei at an interview with Xinhuanet Friday.
Those who chant and cultivate themselves in accordance with Buddhist doctrines are real lamas, said Liu. "However, those who break the law and do things that have nothing to do with Buddhism should not be considered monks at all."
Liu witnessed three major riots in Tibet in 1987 to 1989 and other cases in the region. He said all those riots were initiated by lamas or people dressing lama robes.
Some so-called "religious figures" exiling in foreign countries are unwilling to lose the privileges they boasted before. Therefore, they kept making violence due to the instigation by home and abroad separatists and foreign politicians, Liu put.
"What they did was completely contrary to their religious doctrines," Liu stressed.
"As long as we understand the history of Tibet, the background of Tibetan Buddhism and that religious groups in the region enjoyed absolute power in the past, it will be easier to understand that why lamas always took the lead in each riot in Tibet," said Liu.
"Old Tibet was a society characterized by the merging of politics and religion, in which monasteries enjoyed the greatest power and interest among the three powerful forces," he said. "The most powerful serf owner was the Dalai Lama, who was both the most powerful political leader and the highest religious head."
Under statistics, there were 477 officials in old Tibet in 1959, among whom 266 were monks. That means upper-layer lamas, especially lamas at a certain level, enjoyed certain privileges. That was mainly because in old Tibet big monasteries were not only for religious events. Upper-layer lamas had their own manors, serfs and slaves, and some even had their own judicial rights and armed forces.
"For example, some big monasteries, like the Drepung Monastery, had their own prisons and they put people into prison if they did something wrong. Those were kind of like religious courts."
Therefore, for centuries, the political center in old Tibet was the three biggest monasteries -- Sera Monastery, Ganden Monastery and Drepung Monastery. As the religious as well as political center in old Tibet, they somehow dominated the fate of Tibet.
Take the Drepung Monastery for an example. A social survey record shows the monastery possessed 185 manors, more than 300 prairies and 10, 000 serfs. Moreover, each upper-layer lama in the monastery had a slave.
There was one lama who had 10 younger lamas serving him. According to his disciples' indiction during the democratic reform in Tibet in 1959, he raped more than 1,000 women in villages near the monastery from in 35 years. When he was in charge of a monastery subordinate to the Drepung monastery, he raped all the women working on the manor that affiliated with it.
The social survey shows there were few records of the evils deeds lamas did. On the contrary, most of them were covered with too much glory. The abolishment of serfdom was to deprive the privileges of serf owners. And the biggest serf owners were the upper-layer lama and the highest lama was the Dalai Lama.
"However, the Chinese government still needs to do more to expose the true nature of the political and religious regime of Old Tibet," said Liu.
"In my opinion, the political foundation for such regime has not been completely abolished, that is why some religious forces with political purposes, at home and abroad, are growing stronger."
I read an article by Elisabeth Nauclrs in the Aug 22 edition of Hufvudstadsbladet (Hbl) in which she expresses anger with the Finnish government and president for not according the Dalai Lama an official reception. I have read other writings on the Dalai Lama's visit in Hbl, too, and decided to tell the truth about Tibet and the Dalai Lama.
The Dalai Lama is neither the spiritual leader of Tibet nor does he represent the region. He is the leader of just the Yellow (Gelug) Sect of Tibetan Buddhism, which is dominant in Lhasa. Tibet has been an autonomous region ruled by local kings serving Chinese emperors since the 8th century.
In the 9th century a treaty was signed defining the borders between the 2 countries and by that treaty Tibet was bigger than it is now. They were separate countries then and most of the period since. You are ignorant of your own history - hardly surprising as you have been brainwashed by politburo propaganda. They erase the history they don't like. They even deny Tianaman square and we have that on video. The West knows the truth; the Chinese are kept ignorant.
@TheSaImonfan "local kings serving Chinese emperors "
You are refering to the Qing dynasty in which Tibet was a protectorate of China., this is not the same a province so it remains a separate country by international law. But even that much was forced on Tibet because at that time China was more powerful and exerted its might to have Tibet follow its wishes. China was like a school yard bully exerting his superior strength over others but like the bully it doesn't own the others.
The duties of the Dalai Lama, as well as the Panchen Lama, were prescribed relatively late by the Chinese rulers for helping them with the administration of the faraway and difficult-to-access region. The Chinese rulers made it clear that the Lama had to pass on these duties to the next incarnation, to be found following strict historical and religious rules. But even after the new incarnation was found, the Chinese emperor had the right to veto the choice.
China, as we all know, likes to misrepresent history to either improve its appearance (Tianaman square) or to get what it wants (Tibet, Mongolia, Taiwan). They succeed only because they have no free media. But we know the truth and the history will always be preserved in the west. Of course China knows this and is fearful, that is why they also control all internet access in China - to keep the truth hidden.
The incarnation of the 14th Dalai Lama, who is now based in Dharamsala, India, was approved by the then national government of China. In short, a living Dalai Lama cannot choose his follower all by himself.
When the British invaded Lhasa in 1903 to snatch Tibet away from China, the 13th Dalai Lama disastrously declared that Tibetans were invulnerable, causing much bloodshed. To escape the attack, the 13th Dalai Lama fled Tibet and took shelter in Inner Mongolia. The destitute Dalai Lama was soon found by the emperor and put under house arrest in a Tibetan prefecture of Qinghai province, where Baron Gustaf Mannerheim, then marshal of Finland, visited him in 1907.
The Russian czar, too, was interested in Tibet in order to expand his empire. But that stopped after the October Revolution.
The first decade of the 20th century was marked by political upheavals in China, and in chaos that followed the Boxer Rebellion, the Dalai Lama returned to Lhasa, which the British had left because they found it impossible to control the region for lack of transport facilities.
Tibet's peaceful liberation was achieved in 1951. When the People's Liberation Army entered Tibet in 1951, Chairman Mao Zedong was hailed as the liberator by the Tibetans and the Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lama got back part of his former powers and was made the Vice Chairman of the National People's Congress Standing Committee in 1954.
But these facts have been brushed under the carpet. What took place in 1951 was an internal change in China, and not the invasion of an "independent" country.
In 1957, the Chinese leaders decided to end slavery in Tibet. Then, only about 5 percent of the Tibetans were monks or nuns, or belonged to the small noble class or free nomadic hunting tribes. The rest were slaves who had to toil to feed the non-productive elite of the population. That's why the monasteries, the house of the elites, saw the abolition of slavery as a catastrophe.
Yes the poor were poor. The same was true in China. It is still true in Tibet today and guess what? It is still true in China today. 52% of the Chinese population live on under $2.00 per day. They are in poverty.
You think people in China are free today. They can't speak out against the government - they will be made to disappear. They can't have free access to information because it may turn them against the government and then they would have to be killed.
Since he wanted slavery to continue to maintain his status as a god, the Dalai Lama began spreading rumors that he could be jailed and even executed, which led to an uprising in 1959. But security forces soon brought it under control. It was then that the Dalai Lama fled the country and was "installed" in Dharamsala by the British and Americans, who used him as a weapon against Mao. And the CIA created the myth of the "father of the nation" fighting for the "freedom" of Tibet.
The Dalai Lama may have ceased to be politically important, but the myth created around him survives.
Up to 1959, Tibet could be reached only through some horse-trails. The local economy was in tatters and education was the privilege of the elite. Normal schools were forbidden. Only schools in monasteries that taught religious scriptures were allowed. Worse, the slaves were called "talking cattle" and treated no better than cattle.
Because it was hard to reach and so the modern word had not had much effect on it at that time. This also meant they were militarily weak comprared with China thus China was easily able to invade.
Now Tibet has a modern railway and airports. Today, there are schools and colleges for everybody in Tibet, and Lhasa even has a modern university. Besides, schools are free for ethnic Tibetans, who comprise 90.48 percent of Tibet's 3 million population, whereas Han Chinese have to pay for education.
Tibet is China's autonomous region like the Aland Islands are Finland's. The region has an autonomous government, local laws and regulations, and a governor that is necessarily an ethnic Tibetan. But the local government is subordinate to the central government, not the Dalai Lama.
In 2008, the Dalai Lama tried again to fuel an uprising in Tibet with the intention of prompting an international boycott of the Beijing Olympic Games.
I was living in China then and wrote three articles for Finnish newspapers, laying bare the truth about the riots in Lhasa but they were not published because of censorship. Only Hbl had the courage to publish one of my articles, but that was reduced to a small piece in "the reader's voice". Finland's censorship is what forced me to try and get the English version of my rejected article published.
If not then you don't know. You only know what you heard in China form the state controlled media.
But why shouldn't the Tibetans protest and riot for their independence. you invaded their country. The fact that so many of them are willing to riot proves you do not have the support of the Tibetan people because you are invaders.
As a private person, I have visited Tibet and was free to move wherever and do whatever I liked. So I don't have to base my article on the canards against China that find the prime of places and time slots in the international print and electronic media.
Good, than did you travel outside the areas China wants you see. Or did you just look at infrastructure built up by China over 50 years to make it look good to outsiders.
Tibet, like the rest of the world, would have advanced on its own without interference from a resource hungry expansionist neighbour.
Being a protectorate (as Tibet was during the Qing dynasty) means by treaty they yeilded some control to the Qing and where supposed to be defended by the Qing, but remained an autonomous state by international law. They were never a part of Qing China as such. They just came under its influence. Clearly history shows they, the people of Tibet, were not happy with arrrangement and broke free again as soon as the Qing empire weakened.
Because you conquered a country once in the past, does not give you the right to take it over again in modern times. By that reasoning Much of what you now claim to be North East china and Korea belongs to Japan because the conquered it in the 1940s.
No doubt you are outraged by this suggestion; you feel you are not Japanese, they were invaders.
Well hello! That is how the Tibetans feel.
You have invaded them in the past and been kicked out and now you are invading again.
They are trying to remove Tiananmen Square from the history. What else have they removed? Are you still so sure of the period your Tibetan photos came from?
Yeah as I was saying, I forgot to mention in part 7 that the Qing actually apologised before offering to reinstate the Dalai Lama.
5/. No secret there, we know the CIA and for that matter most of the free world want to see Tibet free of China (As the Tibetans want themselves). This is the case now. It may not be the case once China has replaced the indigenous population with Han Chinese.
6/. $40 million a year! WOW! For a country with 2.5 Trillion US dollars in reserves thats nothing.
* The Funny part isn't funny if you swear and it not funny or true anyway. It has not continuously been a part of China. Read the true history or my summary of it.
4/. Well, I have to admit I don;t know what life was like in Tibet under the Dalai Lama but the photos you show prove nothing. They may have been taken under the Dalai Lama rule but they may equally come from the post Qing invasion period. The Republic of China actually apologised for for the actions of the Qing.
As for some of the other stuff you have presented:
1/. Racial ethnicity has nothing and I mean nithing to do with nationality. Why even mention it. Pointless. Maybe you should claim the whole world and have even more races.
2/. Using the dates you specify 1271 to 2011 is only 740 years. So where do you get the "Thousands of years" from? at most you can claim 740 years. But even that if you read my other posts. So NO, we are not clear on legitimaNcy. I think you meant Legitimacy - Its still NO.
* In 1950, following the Chinese Covil War, The Peoples Republic of claims sovereignty over Tibet but grants the area autonomy (self rule). An agreement is supposedly negotiated to this effect.
* The Dalai Lama flees China and repudiates the above agreement, which makes one wonder to what extent it was an agreement at all if the then leader of Tibet was never in agreement with it.
There you have it the true history of between Tibet and China. Not just the Propagnada from both sides.
1642 with the help of the Oirad Mongols Lobsang Gyatso (a Tibetan monk) seizes spiritual and temporal power overTibet.
* 1644 The Han are defeated by the Manchus. the Qing dynasty (1644-1912).
* 1653 The Dalai Lama visits Shunzhi second emperof the Qing Dynasty's and a relationship develops between the two regions which endures for the entire Qing dynasty. The Tibetans say this relationship retained Tibetan independence, modern China disputes this.
Part 2. Maybe you feel you should be claiming northern India too?
* Around 820 A.D. Tibet and China signed peace treaty defining the border between them. It's interesting that you don't want to take the history back far.
* In the 13th century the Tibetans befriended and aided Genghis Khan in the conquest of China.Tibet become a province of Yuan China.
* In 1368 the Mongul ruleb Yaun empire fell ti the Ming (Han chinese) and Tibet reasserted its independence. So no longer a part of China.
This film does not address is the difference in humanitarian approach that China takes, verses other countries noted.
Some countries noted have not had the best history in humanity - however we are a different point now - and it is reasonable to expect a world leader like China to behave in a free and human way, such as England(today).
Of course Tibet doesn't want to be part of a country where religion is considered the worst evil. Other countries mentioned honor (religious) freedom.
@MrBlueeyegolfer Well if you mentioned religion is China largest enemy 20 years ago, that might be true. But don't you notice a high rises in Christianity in China as well as other religion? Although most of them are considered illegal other than some gov-approved religion group, its an huge improvement from what they used to be decades ago. Same goes to the humanity issues, tons of improvement have been made when you compared to what china was before they open their gates.
Respond to this video.. As you mentioned, tons of country doesn't have any glorious humanity history, which includes most of the strong European colonial power during their height. Do you think they treat the native well? Yes, thats a far away days you might mentioned and most of those colonial power may had already relinquish their claim over the country, but is it even rightful for the "White" to grab the land of America, Aus, New Zealand?
@MrBlueeyegolfer just a question, how did you know that china is a country "where religion is considered the worst evil"? have you been to china? do you know how many Chinese are Buddhist? The reason that in the past China go against Religion is because some people are too religious ( Daoism, Confusious and many others) that they sacrifice people to please the devine...do you know about this? China is not what it was before...don't make such defination before really study it
I wonder if the person who made this video realized that the map used to 'prove' Tibet is eternally part of China also proves that Taiwan wasn't part of China during the Qing Dynasty (1644-1911 - see 1:10 in the video). C'mon, drawing something on a map and using lots of exclamation points (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) doesn't necessarily prove anything.
Western supporters of the Dalai Lama are not only wasting their own resouces, but also causing their own citizens vulnerable to the Free Tibet's abuses. According to Canberra Times 1 May 2011, the allegations that the head of Canberr's Tibetan Buddist community Lama Choedak had sexual relationships with several women from the group amerged late last year. And the women received stern warnings from senior foreign figures in the Tibetan Buddhist movement for going public about the scandal.
brain wash.....its a manipulating the world....i dont wanna argue with you arsehole.....i live in canada too,70% of chinese women are hooker who runs brothel in china town...mother fucking shameless chinese....TIBET WAS FREE AND IT'LL ALWAYS REMAIN FREE no matter what you post on youtube,tibet was forced to be teh part of china.....fucking mao......
@kokos74 You only want tibet so you can claim the buddhas history which has nothing to do with you ass hole chinese people.
tibet stays tibet!!!
I've notice you chinese are getting abit too big headed for your own good and soon the world will just cripple you faster then a blink of a eye... too many nations are started to hate you because you are trying to control everyone.
Good luck fightting half of the world with your dumb ass pakistan that has already attacked your nation lol
LMAO who ever made this video said that MUSLIMS are a race lol look he listed it as CHINA is not a ethnic nation,in fact 56 ethnic groups make up china includeing han,mongols,koreans.... "MUSLIMS" lol,tibetants lol
HE THINKS MUSLIMS ARE A RACE!!!!
Next your tell us that christians are a race? SOOO FUCKING DUMB!!!
CHINA! i agree with that opinion. Tibet belongs to CHINA. Its typical for western civilization without faith that they have more sympathy with Tibet. They know more about Dalai Lama than about Pope or Jesus i think... its a pitty. Tibet is part of China like Bavaria of Germany!
@Heimdall1988 when you dont know the history then shut up fuck up you stupid dirty german......read history before you comment on this fucking link.........
PROC are so absurd that when a sea was named China they thought it was all theirs! WAKE UP U BUNCH OF CUNTS and KEEP OFF PHILIPPINES TERRITORY and BACK OF BULLYING US! Even if we are poor and no arms to contend you with, I for one will still STAND AND FACT you with all your ARROGANT POWERS.
If the people want to get detached from CHina, then let them be. You guys are the ones who don't want to let them go and continue the ongoing battle over the issue. Plus, your government is twisted. Even though the initial intentions were good in terms of keeping peace and unity of the nation, but the whole censorship thing is just waaaay over board. It leaved the public brain washed and makes them live in their "don't know, don't care" world.
@uzolboo You don't know that Tibetan people wanna be detached from China, you just heard it from your media, which has just been prvoded to be lying by this video. What you know is that you want Tibet to be detached from China, because anything that makes China smaller is good news for you. You have been brainwashed by your media for too long, that you either don't realize it or do not wanna admit it.
its LEGITIMACY! learn to SPELL correctly, THEN try to argue got it! but i get your point, and can't counter argue, because you see lots of news confronting each other so you just loose the grip and don't know who to believe. But I believe it is better to believe the people. People who actually live in Tibet, who know what they need without any involvement from Dalai Lama, Chinese gov, or western media.
Damn! If only I had read the small print of the 821/823 Treaty between King Songsten Gampo and the Tang Emperor. It says if I ally myself with an enemy of China of which Britain and the US are, it is tantamount to a declaration of war.
Oh well, who cares about a 1190 year old treaty, tee hee hee!
Even if this was true it wouldn't matter, do the people who live there want their own country. If so then they should be allow to control their own affairs and not be part of China.
Even if this was true it wouldn't matter, do the people who live there want their own country. If so then they should be allow to control their own affairs and not be part of China.
@lessmessful You can STFU IMO, and actually look up the victims of torture by the Tibetan aristocrats prior to Chinese invasion. This is the same regime that attempted to invade Qinghai province in the 1930s. Tibet's flag was actually a Manchu banner, and the title of Dalai Lama was created by the Qing Emperors. Speaking of which, did Japan grant independence to the Aniu and Okinawan peoples yet?
Tibet was in fact previously ruled by a Buddhist dictator aka the 13th Dalai Lama, whose regime was noted to implement a policy of torture against an largely illiterate serf class. During the 1930s the 13th Dalai Lama attempted to annex Qinghai province, and was driven back by the Kuomintang army. Look up the Sino-Tibetan War on Wikipedia.
Yeah, the Dalai Lama was an autocrat. So was the Tsar of Russia. But both were a heck of a lot better than the Communist mass murderers who replaced them. Tibetan "serfdom" was the lesser of two evils compared to Maoist genocide.
@HumanRightsVideosT Yes, that's because Tibet had been with China for like 600 years since Yuan Dynasty (conquered by Kublai Khan from Mongolia, he reestablished China), long before America was discovered, then UK invaded in the 19th century.. In 1951, like you said, China simply won it back what was once part of our country.
So in the long run, Tibet belong to us no problem.
They are not Chinese (ethnically) but They invaded China and is now part of Chinese History. They lived on this land and are therefore automatically Chinese (nationality). China has a long history so lots of ethnic groups is normal. As there are 56 ethnic groups in China, everyone is Chinese. Fuck the ethnicity.
For example, America is becoming darker and darker. African Americans (ethnicity) are increasing in number, but still they are Americans.
I didn't say Tibet invaded itself, I wanted to say that Mongolians invaded it.
Some Mongolians still remain in China. That's why China is a culturally rich country with 56 ethnic groups.
Tibetans are inhabitants in Tibet for a long time, and they are Chinese (nationality).
And here is a better example:Quebec, the province where I live in, were inhabited by natives before Europeans, then French colonized it, then British defeated the French. Now they are all Canadians
Tibet and China are two different countries so Tibetans aren't a Chinese ethnic group.
Tibetans had their own government, culture, language, currency, postal system, passports, treaties with other nations and its own legal system. Probably different to Quebec I guess.
Tibet has its own language, its own culture and its own national heritage. It may have been colonized by China in the past, just like India was colonized by Britain, but this doesn't mean its actually part of China. And even if Tibet *were* part of China, this would be irrevelant, because the CCP is not the legitimate government of China itself...
The CCP is not the legitimate government of China. It took power through a military coup and has kept power by crushing its own citizens with tanks. The Communists must be overthrown.
Your maps are Chinese...Maps from Tibet and other countries had Tibet as a separate entity from China. Also it is incorrect to call Tibet a Slave Society, it was a feudal society, it is all they had known. We can also know Tibet was separate because during the imperial period they controlled a huge chunk of China. Also of note: more people have died as a result of China's policy in TIbet, than have died as a result of the 'cruelty' of the Theocratic government.
@Noctis6969 come on we all know what you are into here . you just wanna split China apart . you don't care about human right. why not free the whole China if you really care. why not feed the whole Aferica if you really care. fuck you and fuck off. I will fight for China's territorial integrity with my life. and fuck you fuck you all of you . we all know your intetion !
@dilegentelectron ey fuckwad, the reason tibetans dont want to be part of china is cause theyr fucking communists and have no real human rights. and thats the ONLY reason why a country should not be part of china. communist china=bullshit, but if ur too brainwashed to realize that, theres no point in arguing about it.....
@chillercm According to you, if China were not communist and Tibet should be a part of China right? Well China is not as communist as before and it will be less communist in the future. Both communism and nazi are from your country, you should be ashamed. So shut up on our internal affairs.
@dilegentelectron im not even from Germany and you should be ashamed for calling it nazi because it is NOT under nationalist rule anymore and it only was for a short period of time. BTW nationalism started in Italy, and communism in Russia, go learn some history. and YES if China were not communist and people had rights like freedom of expression then I would say Tibet should be part of China. Theres a reason why China is behind the US in worlds most hated countries(Germany isnt hated anymore)!
@TheTollundWoman So I aks you and all the Tibetan supporters on here? What are you going to do besides whine on youtube? Don't you get it? NO ONE CAN OR WANT TO risk a war with China over you guys. If California is part of the US even though the US beat up, raped, and robbed the Mexicans for it, can the Russians of Chinese go over and start a war with the US to free California? You keep believing what you want to believe, good luck. The last time I checked, the PRC flag still flies over Lhasa.
The French flag used to wave over Algiers and the Union Jack used to wave over Delhi. Fortunately those days are over and colonialism is dead...the CCP's colonialism will fail. Its just a matter of time.
And please. Go ahead, invade California. You'll be doing us all a huge favor :D
How does a foreign occupation, the imprisonment and murder of thousands of civilians, the systematic destruction of an entire culture and religion (particularly during the cultural revolution) the settler colonialism practiced by the CCP, and the brutal torture of dissidents make Tibet "better off"?
@TheTollundWoman You, like the few hundred on supporters on here constantly refer back to China of the old. I mean, I am a Ugher and I felt the pain. However, the last 30 years, China adopted new plans and went 360 degrees away from what crazy Mao did with Russia's influence. Now look at us. Fine, if 1720's Kong Xi annexation is deemed bullshit to you then face the real fact. YOU ARE NOW part of China as recognized by the UN and the 5 nations that holds the finally vote on the UN council.
As long as the CCP maintains a one-party state, censors, imprisons and tortures dissidents, crushes protestors with tanks and murders people for their religion (the Falun Gong etc.), nothing has really changed. Economically the CCP has allowed some important liberalization but politically and socially they have maintained the same brutal system founded by Mao. In order for Maoism to end, the CCP must end its one-party monopoly on power.
@TheTollundWoman Okay, good perspective, but why? Tell me why China has to adopt a multi-party sytem? We were never Democratic to begin with. Since the last 5000 plus years of written history, Chinese civilization as a whole as always been brutal. We have always been totalitarian governed. Again, tell me why it is good. Just look at the US right now and all its allies. Google National debt or Natonal Balance. The US is nubmer 191 in the world. 14 trillion is a lot of money for more freedom?
Yes, there was a democracy in China! From 1911 to 1949, the REPUBLIC of China. Until Communist thugs overthrew it. And the imperial feudal system was repressive, but never totalitarian. and the US is not really a model democracy, because discourse is effectively limited to two parties, though at least there's free speech. the Coalition systems in europe are a much better example of demoracy at work
@TheTollundWoman I can't even believe what I'm reading. You're calling the ROC-era in China democratic? Half of it was filled by periods in which warlords succesfully fragmented the country and it finnaly came to an end thanks to efforts of Chiang Kai Shek. But he didn't unite China under a Democracy; but under a single-party (KMT) state with a complete monopoly on the political system and you call that a Democracy. If anything, the ROC-era was one of the worst periods in Chinese history.
@TheTollundWoman No government on Earth is perfect. Not the emperical system under tyrants, nor the Republic system found by the Romans which the modern world adopts right now. Not even the Byzantine capitalistic setup. And certainly not the conquesting type of the Huns and Mongolians. NONE! The only difference between all these systems is the ability to prosper under the leadership which governs them. If you have good leadership and people's neccesity are met, it goes 4ever.
@TheTollundWoman Check "External Debt" Check that link out and see why a nation should go democratic. ALL of US's allies are in major debt. China makes $286B in suprlus yearly and has a national debt of only $400B. We are a different nation than your idiotic assumption of the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s. Did you know Deng Xiaoping almost got executed for going against Mao during Cultural Revolution? It was not until after Mao's death Deng insisted on change.
"We are a different nation" So why is Liu Xiabo still in prison for writing 7 sentences critical of the govt., why are writers like Liao Yiwu still censored, why is it still illegal to criticize the Tiananmen Square massacre, and why is only one political party- the CCP- legal? And remind me when Hu Jintao was elected by the Chinese people- oh wait, he wasn't. He's a dictator.
@TheTollundWoman I will educate you on this one. China has been doing this for as long as written history was made. We have way too many people and way too many ancient beliefs. If it is counter productive or counter ogvrnment where stirs might trigger civil wars, they will put it down. In modern days we simply do not want China to break into many countries like the USSR. Huo Jintao was never elected, the party chose him as a successor. Are you going to give me something good? Really!
too many ancient beliefs? all the more reason to get rid of the communist regime, which actively tried to destroy those beliefs! democracy will not cause a "civil war" in China, in fact it is further delaying democracy which is more likely to cause a civil war. Disparity between the Communist elite and the rest of the population is growing rapidly. This cannot enable a "harmonious society"!
@TheTollundWoman Forcing China to become a Democracy simply overnight will do more bad than good. And you need to be careful to which kind of "Democracy" you're referring to; turning China into a Western-style Democracy with Western-style institutions will not bring good results and more likely civil war like arodspecialist said. Measurable steps to a Democracy should be taken in China, like what is currently happening; not through a revolution what the Western elite and critics advocate for.
Deng Xiaoping was China's version of Khruschev, he was decent and smart enough to oppose the brutality of totalitarianism but he still wanted a repressive, authoritarian government and wasn't willing to bring an end to one-party rule. Deng Xiaoping has my respect for resisting Mao, but he still didn't go far enough. And Hu Jintao has turned back the clock a lot.
@TheTollundWoman I mean China is bad blah blah blah, but Tibet is....................oh under Chinese rule. wake me up when you guys have balls to start a rebellion and kick China out. 60 years an counting and you guys are nohwere near getting us out. Well ,okay maybe YOUTUBE can help you guys out. YEAH, get all the Tibetans to go on youtube and complan and bitch, maybe CHINA WILL leave.
@TheTollundWoman what law .. building military bases all around China isn't threatening us? crusing in China's water isn't threatening us? you are not justice . shut your hole .
@Noctis6969 Okay, lets say you are correct. All old maps are bullshit. How about now? Tibet is recognized by the UN as part of China and even Russia does not dare to offend its borders under the "friendship treaty." So my question is this: Are the Tibetan supporters going to do anything besides bitching on here for decades? Every independent nation on this planet FOUGHT for their freedom. From the island 3rd world small nation of Haiti against the French to the Us against Britain. How about you
Aren't we missing something? As an Asian-American student (I used to live in China and am studying Chinese history), my question is, if Tibet really is a part of China, then why don't all Tibetans agree with that?
Also, if you actually want to change some opinions here, you should lay off the cheesy music and profanity-laden insults (with too many question marks). This just makes you sound like a spoiled, whiny teenager, bent on alienating other people, not educating them.
@gritsandsoymilk because their "spiritual" guide dalai-lama, which is equal to the middle age pope, said so. and because that he's a divine image to some tibetan, those tibetans believe him in every thing he say, true or false, good or bad. but some of them dont believe in dalai-lama, so they do believe tibet is a part of china.
@gritsandsoymilk WE are not trying to change opinions as there is no need. Tibet presently is recognized in the UN as part of China and eve Russia will not test its legitimacy. Do you think Hawaiians are happy with the US killing their people and annexing Hawaii as part of the US? Of course not, and so are the Tibetans. Unfortunate for the Tibetans, their history is deeply entwined with China's and is considered as a major Chinese minority tribe since the Tang. Emperor Kang Xi actually CONTINUE
Even if Tibet were part of China (which its not...), the CCP is not even the legitimate government of China itself...And unfortunately you're right the UN does not *yet* recognize Tibet as independent, when the UN was founded it didn't even recognize India as independent though. Things change. Countries that were once colonized always gain their freedom eventually. Tibet will be no exception. Communists like yourself are fighting a losing battle against history :D
@TheTollundWoman I hope you understand UN is a puppet show. China and all the powerful nations play to rules because we want to keep the peace. Legitimacy of a country is not by what other people tell you, it is by what you can defend. When a country is strong, your words is GOD. When you are weak, others can take your shit and you will lose it until you get back. How do you think the US came about? Now to Tibet. Fine, no more arguing. We TOOK your shit. 60 years, think you can get it back?
Strong nations are never able to fully defeat freedom fighters even when they have the technical advantage. India and Kenya beat the British empire, Algeria beat the French empire, and Tibet will defeat the PLA. Just wait. :D
@gritsandsoymilk Made a formal annexation of Tibet in 1720 as they did with Taiwan earlier. But the Qing grew weak and the outside nations wanted a piece of China, so these annexations were not recognized. China can not defend them so why recognize them? Britain who ruled India wanted Tibet also by promising Tibetan Dali Lama and the ruling class everything under the sun. They tried and lost eventually. These people are bitter because they see PRc of the 50s rather than the progress of 2011.
@gritsandsoymilk You should go to heaven and ask the native northern american died in 200-250 year agos, do they agree the land of US or Canada are belong to them as they were majority population back then? OK, they cant answer it by their mouth or vote now
@gritsandsoymilk You should go to heaven and ask the native northern american died in 200-250 year agos, do they agree the land of US or Canada are belong to them as they were majority population back then? OK, they cant answer it by their mouth or vote now
Do all americans consider themselves American? There are numerous native american separatist groups as well as separatist groups in California, Alaska, Texas, and Hawaii.
Do all british consider themselves british? No wonder there's all this talk of scotland and ireland independence!!
@Phead128 NO IT'S NOT IT'S MONGOLIAN, It subjegated the Chinese along with the Tibetans. Why can't you answer this, if the Yuan empire was Chinese then why isn't the British Empire Indian or both British and Indian
@Phead128 An ethnic Mongol in China would be Chinese by nationality, But a British person Ind India would be Indian by nationality but that doesn't make the British empire Indian Just as that doesn't make the yuan empire Chinese. You didn't answer my question.
Also, Mongols had no concept of "dynasty", since they were just tribal nomadic with no sedentary civilization. "Dynasty" and "Yuan" are both Chinese derivatives.
FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE TIBET AND THATS FROM A COMMUNIST FREEDOM FIGHTER... FREE TIBET! FREE TIBET! FREE TIBET! FREE TIBET! FREE TIBET! FREE TIBET!
FREE TIBET! FREE TIBET!! FREE TIBET!! ENOUGH SAID. CHINESE ARE ROACHES COMMUNISTS UGLY SHORT LEGGED BEINGS WITH UGLY EYES AND FLAT NOSE ATTACHED TO A EVEN FLATTER FACE!!! THERE;S THE DIFFERENCE. VIOLENCE MAKE MONEY MORE MONEY POPULATION NOTHING MORE NOTHING MORE!
Get a life. You probably don't know anything about China because you wasted time making this nonsense video with fatuous words and facts. Have you not seen the leaked torture tapes of what Chinese soldiers do the Tibetans? You caused genocide in Tibet you and the Chinese government, the Chinese people are NOT bad it is the GOVERNMENT!
This has been flagged as spam show
Failed. not even ur 1st fact is correct. Mongol is not part of Mongolia. Everything is different such as language, scripts, culture. what else u gonna say from ur bad smelled mouth
batutu6 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
what a load of bullshit! 56 minorities!
torredefullola 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Liy Wei - Hmm, he wouldn't be Chinese would he?
"However, the Chinese government still needs to do more to expose the true nature of the political and religious regime of Old Tibet," said Liu.
Maybe he should do more to expose what was happening in China at the same time.
Maybe he should do more to expose the current situation in China where dissension is not tolerated, where 52% of the population still live on under $2.00 per day.
Maybe Liu is a PROC puppet.
StormyWeather2012 3 weeks ago
Unwilling to lose the privileges they enjoyed in the feudal serfdom society of old Tibet, some lamas have been the initiators of riots or other violent incidents in the region, according to a Tibetologist, who lived and worked in Tibet for 26 years.
TheSaImonfan 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TheSaImonfan
Liu Wei - Hmm, he wouldn't be Chinese would he?
"However, the Chinese government still needs to do more to expose the true nature of the political and religious regime of Old Tibet," said Liu.
Maybe he should do more to expose what was happening in China at the same time.
Maybe he should do more to expose the current situation in China where dissension is not tolerated, where 52% of the population still live on under $2.00 per day.
Maybe Liu is a PROC puppet.
StormyWeather2012 2 weeks ago
"Lama in Tibetan language means a person with morals and cultivation. In average people's eyes, lamas should just chant, abide by religious vows and promote Buddhism, the essence of which is being nice to others," said the Tibetologist Liu Wei at an interview with Xinhuanet Friday.
TheSaImonfan 3 weeks ago
Those who chant and cultivate themselves in accordance with Buddhist doctrines are real lamas, said Liu. "However, those who break the law and do things that have nothing to do with Buddhism should not be considered monks at all."
TheSaImonfan 3 weeks ago
Liu witnessed three major riots in Tibet in 1987 to 1989 and other cases in the region. He said all those riots were initiated by lamas or people dressing lama robes.
Some so-called "religious figures" exiling in foreign countries are unwilling to lose the privileges they boasted before. Therefore, they kept making violence due to the instigation by home and abroad separatists and foreign politicians, Liu put.
TheSaImonfan 3 weeks ago
"What they did was completely contrary to their religious doctrines," Liu stressed.
"As long as we understand the history of Tibet, the background of Tibetan Buddhism and that religious groups in the region enjoyed absolute power in the past, it will be easier to understand that why lamas always took the lead in each riot in Tibet," said Liu.
TheSaImonfan 3 weeks ago
"Old Tibet was a society characterized by the merging of politics and religion, in which monasteries enjoyed the greatest power and interest among the three powerful forces," he said. "The most powerful serf owner was the Dalai Lama, who was both the most powerful political leader and the highest religious head."
TheSaImonfan 3 weeks ago
Under statistics, there were 477 officials in old Tibet in 1959, among whom 266 were monks. That means upper-layer lamas, especially lamas at a certain level, enjoyed certain privileges. That was mainly because in old Tibet big monasteries were not only for religious events. Upper-layer lamas had their own manors, serfs and slaves, and some even had their own judicial rights and armed forces.
TheSaImonfan 3 weeks ago
"For example, some big monasteries, like the Drepung Monastery, had their own prisons and they put people into prison if they did something wrong. Those were kind of like religious courts."
TheSaImonfan 3 weeks ago
Therefore, for centuries, the political center in old Tibet was the three biggest monasteries -- Sera Monastery, Ganden Monastery and Drepung Monastery. As the religious as well as political center in old Tibet, they somehow dominated the fate of Tibet.
Take the Drepung Monastery for an example. A social survey record shows the monastery possessed 185 manors, more than 300 prairies and 10, 000 serfs. Moreover, each upper-layer lama in the monastery had a slave.
TheSaImonfan 3 weeks ago
There was one lama who had 10 younger lamas serving him. According to his disciples' indiction during the democratic reform in Tibet in 1959, he raped more than 1,000 women in villages near the monastery from in 35 years. When he was in charge of a monastery subordinate to the Drepung monastery, he raped all the women working on the manor that affiliated with it.
TheSaImonfan 3 weeks ago
The social survey shows there were few records of the evils deeds lamas did. On the contrary, most of them were covered with too much glory. The abolishment of serfdom was to deprive the privileges of serf owners. And the biggest serf owners were the upper-layer lama and the highest lama was the Dalai Lama.
TheSaImonfan 3 weeks ago
"However, the Chinese government still needs to do more to expose the true nature of the political and religious regime of Old Tibet," said Liu.
"In my opinion, the political foundation for such regime has not been completely abolished, that is why some religious forces with political purposes, at home and abroad, are growing stronger."
TheSaImonfan 3 weeks ago
I read an article by Elisabeth Nauclrs in the Aug 22 edition of Hufvudstadsbladet (Hbl) in which she expresses anger with the Finnish government and president for not according the Dalai Lama an official reception. I have read other writings on the Dalai Lama's visit in Hbl, too, and decided to tell the truth about Tibet and the Dalai Lama.
TheSaImonfan 4 weeks ago
The Dalai Lama is neither the spiritual leader of Tibet nor does he represent the region. He is the leader of just the Yellow (Gelug) Sect of Tibetan Buddhism, which is dominant in Lhasa. Tibet has been an autonomous region ruled by local kings serving Chinese emperors since the 8th century.
TheSaImonfan 4 weeks ago
@TheSaImonfan
CRAP
In the 9th century a treaty was signed defining the borders between the 2 countries and by that treaty Tibet was bigger than it is now. They were separate countries then and most of the period since. You are ignorant of your own history - hardly surprising as you have been brainwashed by politburo propaganda. They erase the history they don't like. They even deny Tianaman square and we have that on video. The West knows the truth; the Chinese are kept ignorant.
StormyWeather2012 4 weeks ago
@TheSaImonfan "local kings serving Chinese emperors "
You are refering to the Qing dynasty in which Tibet was a protectorate of China., this is not the same a province so it remains a separate country by international law. But even that much was forced on Tibet because at that time China was more powerful and exerted its might to have Tibet follow its wishes. China was like a school yard bully exerting his superior strength over others but like the bully it doesn't own the others.
StormyWeather2012 4 weeks ago
The duties of the Dalai Lama, as well as the Panchen Lama, were prescribed relatively late by the Chinese rulers for helping them with the administration of the faraway and difficult-to-access region. The Chinese rulers made it clear that the Lama had to pass on these duties to the next incarnation, to be found following strict historical and religious rules. But even after the new incarnation was found, the Chinese emperor had the right to veto the choice.
TheSaImonfan 4 weeks ago
@TheSaImonfan
So says China
But this was never the understanding in Tibet
China, as we all know, likes to misrepresent history to either improve its appearance (Tianaman square) or to get what it wants (Tibet, Mongolia, Taiwan). They succeed only because they have no free media. But we know the truth and the history will always be preserved in the west. Of course China knows this and is fearful, that is why they also control all internet access in China - to keep the truth hidden.
StormyWeather2012 4 weeks ago
The incarnation of the 14th Dalai Lama, who is now based in Dharamsala, India, was approved by the then national government of China. In short, a living Dalai Lama cannot choose his follower all by himself.
TheSaImonfan 4 weeks ago
When the British invaded Lhasa in 1903 to snatch Tibet away from China, the 13th Dalai Lama disastrously declared that Tibetans were invulnerable, causing much bloodshed. To escape the attack, the 13th Dalai Lama fled Tibet and took shelter in Inner Mongolia. The destitute Dalai Lama was soon found by the emperor and put under house arrest in a Tibetan prefecture of Qinghai province, where Baron Gustaf Mannerheim, then marshal of Finland, visited him in 1907.
TheSaImonfan 4 weeks ago
The Russian czar, too, was interested in Tibet in order to expand his empire. But that stopped after the October Revolution.
The first decade of the 20th century was marked by political upheavals in China, and in chaos that followed the Boxer Rebellion, the Dalai Lama returned to Lhasa, which the British had left because they found it impossible to control the region for lack of transport facilities.
TheSaImonfan 4 weeks ago
Tibet's peaceful liberation was achieved in 1951. When the People's Liberation Army entered Tibet in 1951, Chairman Mao Zedong was hailed as the liberator by the Tibetans and the Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lama got back part of his former powers and was made the Vice Chairman of the National People's Congress Standing Committee in 1954.
But these facts have been brushed under the carpet. What took place in 1951 was an internal change in China, and not the invasion of an "independent" country.
TheSaImonfan 4 weeks ago
@TheSaImonfan
Again, you don't know yor history.
It was not peaceful. The shelled palaces and building. The people fled.
They arrested and tortured and killed many.
There is video of much of the destruction they caused.
They destroyed buddhist artifacts and sites.
They could not accept the languages and customs of the people - this in itself tells you Tibet and China were never unified.
They were once a part of the Mongolian empire as was China. Mongolia does not equal China.
StormyWeather2012 4 weeks ago
In 1957, the Chinese leaders decided to end slavery in Tibet. Then, only about 5 percent of the Tibetans were monks or nuns, or belonged to the small noble class or free nomadic hunting tribes. The rest were slaves who had to toil to feed the non-productive elite of the population. That's why the monasteries, the house of the elites, saw the abolition of slavery as a catastrophe.
TheSaImonfan 4 weeks ago
@TheSaImonfan
Yes the poor were poor. The same was true in China. It is still true in Tibet today and guess what? It is still true in China today. 52% of the Chinese population live on under $2.00 per day. They are in poverty.
You think people in China are free today. They can't speak out against the government - they will be made to disappear. They can't have free access to information because it may turn them against the government and then they would have to be killed.
StormyWeather2012 4 weeks ago
Since he wanted slavery to continue to maintain his status as a god, the Dalai Lama began spreading rumors that he could be jailed and even executed, which led to an uprising in 1959. But security forces soon brought it under control. It was then that the Dalai Lama fled the country and was "installed" in Dharamsala by the British and Americans, who used him as a weapon against Mao. And the CIA created the myth of the "father of the nation" fighting for the "freedom" of Tibet.
TheSaImonfan 4 weeks ago
@TheSaImonfan
Man, you are so ignorant.
StormyWeather2012 4 weeks ago
The Dalai Lama may have ceased to be politically important, but the myth created around him survives.
Up to 1959, Tibet could be reached only through some horse-trails. The local economy was in tatters and education was the privilege of the elite. Normal schools were forbidden. Only schools in monasteries that taught religious scriptures were allowed. Worse, the slaves were called "talking cattle" and treated no better than cattle.
TheSaImonfan 4 weeks ago
@TheSaImonfan
Because it was hard to reach and so the modern word had not had much effect on it at that time. This also meant they were militarily weak comprared with China thus China was easily able to invade.
StormyWeather2012 4 weeks ago
Now Tibet has a modern railway and airports. Today, there are schools and colleges for everybody in Tibet, and Lhasa even has a modern university. Besides, schools are free for ethnic Tibetans, who comprise 90.48 percent of Tibet's 3 million population, whereas Han Chinese have to pay for education.
TheSaImonfan 4 weeks ago
Tibet is China's autonomous region like the Aland Islands are Finland's. The region has an autonomous government, local laws and regulations, and a governor that is necessarily an ethnic Tibetan. But the local government is subordinate to the central government, not the Dalai Lama.
In 2008, the Dalai Lama tried again to fuel an uprising in Tibet with the intention of prompting an international boycott of the Beijing Olympic Games.
TheSaImonfan 4 weeks ago
@TheSaImonfan "But the local government is subordinate to the central government,"
Only because you conquered them, and made it so. That does not make it legitimate.
StormyWeather2012 4 weeks ago
I was living in China then and wrote three articles for Finnish newspapers, laying bare the truth about the riots in Lhasa but they were not published because of censorship. Only Hbl had the courage to publish one of my articles, but that was reduced to a small piece in "the reader's voice". Finland's censorship is what forced me to try and get the English version of my rejected article published.
TheSaImonfan 4 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TheSaImonfan
Were you actually in Lhasa?
If not then you don't know. You only know what you heard in China form the state controlled media.
But why shouldn't the Tibetans protest and riot for their independence. you invaded their country. The fact that so many of them are willing to riot proves you do not have the support of the Tibetan people because you are invaders.
StormyWeather2012 4 weeks ago
As a private person, I have visited Tibet and was free to move wherever and do whatever I liked. So I don't have to base my article on the canards against China that find the prime of places and time slots in the international print and electronic media.
TheSaImonfan 4 weeks ago
@TheSaImonfan
Good, than did you travel outside the areas China wants you see. Or did you just look at infrastructure built up by China over 50 years to make it look good to outsiders.
Tibet, like the rest of the world, would have advanced on its own without interference from a resource hungry expansionist neighbour.
StormyWeather2012 4 weeks ago
PART 18
Being a protectorate (as Tibet was during the Qing dynasty) means by treaty they yeilded some control to the Qing and where supposed to be defended by the Qing, but remained an autonomous state by international law. They were never a part of Qing China as such. They just came under its influence. Clearly history shows they, the people of Tibet, were not happy with arrrangement and broke free again as soon as the Qing empire weakened.
StormyWeather2012 1 month ago
PART 15
They feel they are not Chinese just as you feel you are not Japanese.
It’s a land grab for economic and military power.
StormyWeather2012 1 month ago
Part 14
Because you conquered a country once in the past, does not give you the right to take it over again in modern times. By that reasoning Much of what you now claim to be North East china and Korea belongs to Japan because the conquered it in the 1940s.
No doubt you are outraged by this suggestion; you feel you are not Japanese, they were invaders.
Well hello! That is how the Tibetans feel.
You have invaded them in the past and been kicked out and now you are invading again.
StormyWeather2012 1 month ago
They are trying to remove Tiananmen Square from the history. What else have they removed? Are you still so sure of the period your Tibetan photos came from?
StormyWeather2012 1 month ago
PART 10
Yeah as I was saying, I forgot to mention in part 7 that the Qing actually apologised before offering to reinstate the Dalai Lama.
5/. No secret there, we know the CIA and for that matter most of the free world want to see Tibet free of China (As the Tibetans want themselves). This is the case now. It may not be the case once China has replaced the indigenous population with Han Chinese.
6/. $40 million a year! WOW! For a country with 2.5 Trillion US dollars in reserves thats nothing.
StormyWeather2012 1 month ago
* The Funny part isn't funny if you swear and it not funny or true anyway. It has not continuously been a part of China. Read the true history or my summary of it.
4/. Well, I have to admit I don;t know what life was like in Tibet under the Dalai Lama but the photos you show prove nothing. They may have been taken under the Dalai Lama rule but they may equally come from the post Qing invasion period. The Republic of China actually apologised for for the actions of the Qing.
StormyWeather2012 1 month ago
As for some of the other stuff you have presented:
1/. Racial ethnicity has nothing and I mean nithing to do with nationality. Why even mention it. Pointless. Maybe you should claim the whole world and have even more races.
2/. Using the dates you specify 1271 to 2011 is only 740 years. So where do you get the "Thousands of years" from? at most you can claim 740 years. But even that if you read my other posts. So NO, we are not clear on legitimaNcy. I think you meant Legitimacy - Its still NO.
StormyWeather2012 1 month ago
Part 7
* In 1950, following the Chinese Covil War, The Peoples Republic of claims sovereignty over Tibet but grants the area autonomy (self rule). An agreement is supposedly negotiated to this effect.
* The Dalai Lama flees China and repudiates the above agreement, which makes one wonder to what extent it was an agreement at all if the then leader of Tibet was never in agreement with it.
There you have it the true history of between Tibet and China. Not just the Propagnada from both sides.
StormyWeather2012 1 month ago
Part 6
* The Dalai Lama flees to India.
* The invading Chinese are very unpopular for their mistreatment of civilians and their disregard for local culture.
* 1911 the Xinhai Revolution overtrows the Qing dynasty and the Republic of China is formed.
* The republic removes the Qing army from Tibet and offers to restore the Dalai Lama's Title.
* The Dalai Lama refuses to accept any title from the Chinese
* The Dalai Lama rules Tibet for the next 36 years.
StormyWeather2012 1 month ago
Part 5
* Tibet is dominated by the Manchus during the 18th century but they do not attempt to make Tibet a Chinese province
* 1792+ Qing imperial commissioners' authority is at its peak.
* 1841 The Sikh Empire invades Tibet start the Sino-Sikh war.
* A Qing-Tibetan army repels the Sikh but is then defeated itself in Ladakh by the Sikh.
* The Qing du=ynasty weaks and so does its influence of Tibet.
* In 1910 the Qing invade Tibet and defeat the Tibetan army and expell the Dalai Lama's forces.
StormyWeather2012 1 month ago
Part 4.
1642 with the help of the Oirad Mongols Lobsang Gyatso (a Tibetan monk) seizes spiritual and temporal power overTibet.
* 1644 The Han are defeated by the Manchus. the Qing dynasty (1644-1912).
* 1653 The Dalai Lama visits Shunzhi second emperof the Qing Dynasty's and a relationship develops between the two regions which endures for the entire Qing dynasty. The Tibetans say this relationship retained Tibetan independence, modern China disputes this.
* 1682 Lobsang Gyatso dies.
StormyWeather2012 1 month ago
Part 3.
* Late 14th Century to 17th century - Origin and succession of Dalai Lamas
* Pre 1565 Rin-spung rulers of Tibet
* Post 1565 Gtsang dynasty rules tibet until 1642.
* 1630s - the Moguls, Han, Ming and Manchu all via for power in China. This did not include Tibetans at first.
* 1634 Mongol warlord Ligdan Khan and Tsogt Taij invaded Tibet to destroy the Yellow Hats (Buddhist sect) involving Tibet in the power struggle.
* Ligdan Khan dies and Tsogt Taij defeated by Oirad Mongols in 1637.
StormyWeather2012 1 month ago
Part 2. Maybe you feel you should be claiming northern India too?
* Around 820 A.D. Tibet and China signed peace treaty defining the border between them. It's interesting that you don't want to take the history back far.
* In the 13th century the Tibetans befriended and aided Genghis Khan in the conquest of China.Tibet become a province of Yuan China.
* In 1368 the Mongul ruleb Yaun empire fell ti the Ming (Han chinese) and Tibet reasserted its independence. So no longer a part of China.
StormyWeather2012 1 month ago
Part 1
Some real facts:
* 640 A.D the Tibetan King Songtsan Gampo married the niece of the Tang Emperor TaizongPrincess Wencheng, as well as marrying a Nepalese princess.
* He incorporated part of the Yarlung River Valley into the Kingdom of Tibet.
* Between 663 and 692 his descendants conquered what is now the Chinese provinces of Qinghai, Gansu, and Xinjiang.
* In following centuries these regions were conquered and reconquered.
* At one stage the Tibetans conquered much of northern India.
StormyWeather2012 1 month ago
China is similar to UK.
Han chinese are like english.
Uyghurs are like scottish.
Tibet is like Welsh.
And inner mongolia is like northern Ireland.
kangaroodragon123 1 month ago
Tibet is Chinese. The "Tibetan" fascists must be resolutely smashed and the deluded Dilly-Dally must stop his schemes.
bolshevikML 2 months ago
Meanwhile, I'm traipsing around mongolia sampling mouthwatering mongolian beef. The doctor said it helps my diabetic condition, tee hee hee.
Free Tibet.
His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama, Outer Mongolia, 9th Nov 1711.
XIVDALAILAMA 2 months ago
Religion is great.
Without it there would be no wars, no killing and no suffering.
The world would be too perfect.
It is our karma to be born.
Free Tibet.
XIVDALAILAMA 2 months ago
Comment removed
dorjeechopchop 3 months ago
Comment removed
dorjeechopchop 3 months ago
On one hand, we have theocracy that haven't gave a shit about human rights except for the few on the top.
On the other hand, we have communists, that don't give a shit about human rights except for the few on the top.
It's shitty either way.
ponyfikator 3 months ago
This film does not address is the difference in humanitarian approach that China takes, verses other countries noted.
Some countries noted have not had the best history in humanity - however we are a different point now - and it is reasonable to expect a world leader like China to behave in a free and human way, such as England(today).
Of course Tibet doesn't want to be part of a country where religion is considered the worst evil. Other countries mentioned honor (religious) freedom.
MrBlueeyegolfer 4 months ago
@MrBlueeyegolfer Well if you mentioned religion is China largest enemy 20 years ago, that might be true. But don't you notice a high rises in Christianity in China as well as other religion? Although most of them are considered illegal other than some gov-approved religion group, its an huge improvement from what they used to be decades ago. Same goes to the humanity issues, tons of improvement have been made when you compared to what china was before they open their gates.
lolozai91 3 months ago
Comment removed
lolozai91 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Respond to this video.. As you mentioned, tons of country doesn't have any glorious humanity history, which includes most of the strong European colonial power during their height. Do you think they treat the native well? Yes, thats a far away days you might mentioned and most of those colonial power may had already relinquish their claim over the country, but is it even rightful for the "White" to grab the land of America, Aus, New Zealand?
lolozai91 3 months ago
@MrBlueeyegolfer just a question, how did you know that china is a country "where religion is considered the worst evil"? have you been to china? do you know how many Chinese are Buddhist? The reason that in the past China go against Religion is because some people are too religious ( Daoism, Confusious and many others) that they sacrifice people to please the devine...do you know about this? China is not what it was before...don't make such defination before really study it
MultiHelloha 1 month ago
I wonder if the person who made this video realized that the map used to 'prove' Tibet is eternally part of China also proves that Taiwan wasn't part of China during the Qing Dynasty (1644-1911 - see 1:10 in the video). C'mon, drawing something on a map and using lots of exclamation points (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) doesn't necessarily prove anything.
sspinner145 4 months ago
Western supporters of the Dalai Lama are not only wasting their own resouces, but also causing their own citizens vulnerable to the Free Tibet's abuses. According to Canberra Times 1 May 2011, the allegations that the head of Canberr's Tibetan Buddist community Lama Choedak had sexual relationships with several women from the group amerged late last year. And the women received stern warnings from senior foreign figures in the Tibetan Buddhist movement for going public about the scandal.
OrientalStyles 5 months ago 2
brain wash.....its a manipulating the world....i dont wanna argue with you arsehole.....i live in canada too,70% of chinese women are hooker who runs brothel in china town...mother fucking shameless chinese....TIBET WAS FREE AND IT'LL ALWAYS REMAIN FREE no matter what you post on youtube,tibet was forced to be teh part of china.....fucking mao......
samaratsa 5 months ago
@samaratsa YEAH U ARE RIGHT . U CAN SEE SO MANY VIDEOS OF HARASSING TIBET PEOPLE OVER THERE .
chaithanya500 4 months ago
@samaratsa no matter what you say...however you are too nobody and know nothing about this issue to change the fact that tibet is part of china
MultiHelloha 1 month ago
@kokos74 You only want tibet so you can claim the buddhas history which has nothing to do with you ass hole chinese people.
tibet stays tibet!!!
I've notice you chinese are getting abit too big headed for your own good and soon the world will just cripple you faster then a blink of a eye... too many nations are started to hate you because you are trying to control everyone.
Good luck fightting half of the world with your dumb ass pakistan that has already attacked your nation lol
jimbob202019 5 months ago
LMAO who ever made this video said that MUSLIMS are a race lol look he listed it as CHINA is not a ethnic nation,in fact 56 ethnic groups make up china includeing han,mongols,koreans.... "MUSLIMS" lol,tibetants lol
HE THINKS MUSLIMS ARE A RACE!!!!
Next your tell us that christians are a race? SOOO FUCKING DUMB!!!
jimbob202019 5 months ago
sure, multicultural canada, ie 90% english, even half the french want out
andrewawp 5 months ago
ya, through force they became part of china
andrewawp 5 months ago
a great point of this video is that no westerner want to leave their colony and go back to europe.
hypocrisy make me laugh
jojoinhere 5 months ago
@ jojoinhere
In free countries people have rights. Not so in Tibet or China.
.
Do you want to go and live in China ?
FalunGongIsAmazing 5 months ago
CHINA! i agree with that opinion. Tibet belongs to CHINA. Its typical for western civilization without faith that they have more sympathy with Tibet. They know more about Dalai Lama than about Pope or Jesus i think... its a pitty. Tibet is part of China like Bavaria of Germany!
Heimdall1988 5 months ago
@ Heimdall1988
The 1951 17 point agreement signed between Tibet and China proves that Tibet is a COUNTRY.
FalunGongIsAmazing 5 months ago
@Heimdall1988 when you dont know the history then shut up fuck up you stupid dirty german......read history before you comment on this fucking link.........
samaratsa 5 months ago
@samaratsa
are you racist or why dirty german? racists are funny because they really know nothing about history and politics :D
Heimdall1988 5 months ago
78 people weren't, aren't and never been living in China befor :)
HanZeroon 6 months ago
PROC are so absurd that when a sea was named China they thought it was all theirs! WAKE UP U BUNCH OF CUNTS and KEEP OFF PHILIPPINES TERRITORY and BACK OF BULLYING US! Even if we are poor and no arms to contend you with, I for one will still STAND AND FACT you with all your ARROGANT POWERS.
Downer01 7 months ago
What's the song used in this video clip ?
onunurs 7 months ago
If the people want to get detached from CHina, then let them be. You guys are the ones who don't want to let them go and continue the ongoing battle over the issue. Plus, your government is twisted. Even though the initial intentions were good in terms of keeping peace and unity of the nation, but the whole censorship thing is just waaaay over board. It leaved the public brain washed and makes them live in their "don't know, don't care" world.
uzolboo 7 months ago
@uzolboo You don't know that Tibetan people wanna be detached from China, you just heard it from your media, which has just been prvoded to be lying by this video. What you know is that you want Tibet to be detached from China, because anything that makes China smaller is good news for you. You have been brainwashed by your media for too long, that you either don't realize it or do not wanna admit it.
smilexr 6 months ago
@ smilexr
Why do you think that Tibetans keep on protesting ???
.
No doubt there are many LIES on this video
FalunGongIsAmazing 5 months ago
its LEGITIMACY! learn to SPELL correctly, THEN try to argue got it! but i get your point, and can't counter argue, because you see lots of news confronting each other so you just loose the grip and don't know who to believe. But I believe it is better to believe the people. People who actually live in Tibet, who know what they need without any involvement from Dalai Lama, Chinese gov, or western media.
uzolboo 7 months ago
But it is too bad China violated the 821/823 Treaty by invading Tibet.
XlVDALAILAMA 7 months ago
OK serfs, you are all allowed free speech.
But just don't let me hear you talking, hahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaah!
XIVDALAILAMA 7 months ago
Damn! If only I had read the small print of the 821/823 Treaty between King Songsten Gampo and the Tang Emperor. It says if I ally myself with an enemy of China of which Britain and the US are, it is tantamount to a declaration of war.
Oh well, who cares about a 1190 year old treaty, tee hee hee!
XIVDALAILAMA 7 months ago
Even if this was true it wouldn't matter, do the people who live there want their own country. If so then they should be allow to control their own affairs and not be part of China.
TheThinkery101 7 months ago
Even if this was true it wouldn't matter, do the people who live there want their own country. If so then they should be allow to control their own affairs and not be part of China.
TheThinkery101 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
i tie u tie u tie my tie bitch!!!
josettebovettelavrai 8 months ago
i tie u tie u tie my tie bitch!!!
josettebovettelavrai 8 months ago
the video title is wrong, it should say:
HETALIA WAS, IS and ALWAYS WILL BE A BIG PIECE OF SHIT
cesareque92 8 months ago
@lessmessful You can STFU IMO, and actually look up the victims of torture by the Tibetan aristocrats prior to Chinese invasion. This is the same regime that attempted to invade Qinghai province in the 1930s. Tibet's flag was actually a Manchu banner, and the title of Dalai Lama was created by the Qing Emperors. Speaking of which, did Japan grant independence to the Aniu and Okinawan peoples yet?
Fenristheman 8 months ago
Tibet was in fact previously ruled by a Buddhist dictator aka the 13th Dalai Lama, whose regime was noted to implement a policy of torture against an largely illiterate serf class. During the 1930s the 13th Dalai Lama attempted to annex Qinghai province, and was driven back by the Kuomintang army. Look up the Sino-Tibetan War on Wikipedia.
Fenristheman 8 months ago
@Fenristheman
Yeah, the Dalai Lama was an autocrat. So was the Tsar of Russia. But both were a heck of a lot better than the Communist mass murderers who replaced them. Tibetan "serfdom" was the lesser of two evils compared to Maoist genocide.
TheTollundWoman 8 months ago
The existence of videos such as this one
PROVE
that many chinese have had a poor eduation
*
I suggest you DELETE THIS VIDEO if you want chinese to appear educated
HumanRightsVideosT 9 months ago
@HumanRightsVideosT
Please give us proof, you are sounding like yourself have no education.
or go read your psychology textbook: your assumption without empirical method will let everyone ignore you.
And stop making your name "humanrightsvideos", because this title is written on your face and you have nothing inside yourself
DuchesneLover 9 months ago
@DuchesneLover
If Tibet was part of China before 1951 then China wouldn't have needed to sign the 1951 17 point agreement.
HumanRightsVideosT 9 months ago
@HumanRightsVideosT Yes, that's because Tibet had been with China for like 600 years since Yuan Dynasty (conquered by Kublai Khan from Mongolia, he reestablished China), long before America was discovered, then UK invaded in the 19th century.. In 1951, like you said, China simply won it back what was once part of our country.
So in the long run, Tibet belong to us no problem.
DuchesneLover 9 months ago
@DuchesneLover
Tibetans, Mongolians and Uighurs ARE NOT Chinese.
*
Tibet and China were INVADED by Mongolians and Manchus. Tibet was NEVER invaded by Chinese, before the 1949-50 INVASION.
*
Manchus were NOT Chinese when they INVADED Tibet and China.
HumanRightsVideosT 9 months ago
@HumanRightsVideosT
They are not Chinese (ethnically) but They invaded China and is now part of Chinese History. They lived on this land and are therefore automatically Chinese (nationality). China has a long history so lots of ethnic groups is normal. As there are 56 ethnic groups in China, everyone is Chinese. Fuck the ethnicity.
For example, America is becoming darker and darker. African Americans (ethnicity) are increasing in number, but still they are Americans.
DuchesneLover 9 months ago
@DuchesneLover
If Tibetans invaded Tibet when Chinese were living there how come Tibetans are better adapted to attitude than Chinese are??
HumanRightsVideosT 9 months ago
@HumanRightsVideosT
I didn't say Tibet invaded itself, I wanted to say that Mongolians invaded it.
Some Mongolians still remain in China. That's why China is a culturally rich country with 56 ethnic groups.
Tibetans are inhabitants in Tibet for a long time, and they are Chinese (nationality).
And here is a better example:Quebec, the province where I live in, were inhabited by natives before Europeans, then French colonized it, then British defeated the French. Now they are all Canadians
DuchesneLover 9 months ago
@DuchesneLover
Tibet and China are two different countries so Tibetans aren't a Chinese ethnic group.
Tibetans had their own government, culture, language, currency, postal system, passports, treaties with other nations and its own legal system. Probably different to Quebec I guess.
HumanRightsVideosT 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@DuchesneLover
Tibet has its own language, its own culture and its own national heritage. It may have been colonized by China in the past, just like India was colonized by Britain, but this doesn't mean its actually part of China. And even if Tibet *were* part of China, this would be irrevelant, because the CCP is not the legitimate government of China itself...
TheTollundWoman 9 months ago
@DuchesneLover
The CCP is not the legitimate government of China. It took power through a military coup and has kept power by crushing its own citizens with tanks. The Communists must be overthrown.
TheTollundWoman 9 months ago
Your maps are Chinese...Maps from Tibet and other countries had Tibet as a separate entity from China. Also it is incorrect to call Tibet a Slave Society, it was a feudal society, it is all they had known. We can also know Tibet was separate because during the imperial period they controlled a huge chunk of China. Also of note: more people have died as a result of China's policy in TIbet, than have died as a result of the 'cruelty' of the Theocratic government.
Noctis6969 10 months ago
@Noctis6969 come on we all know what you are into here . you just wanna split China apart . you don't care about human right. why not free the whole China if you really care. why not feed the whole Aferica if you really care. fuck you and fuck off. I will fight for China's territorial integrity with my life. and fuck you fuck you all of you . we all know your intetion !
dilegentelectron 10 months ago
@dilegentelectron ey fuckwad, the reason tibetans dont want to be part of china is cause theyr fucking communists and have no real human rights. and thats the ONLY reason why a country should not be part of china. communist china=bullshit, but if ur too brainwashed to realize that, theres no point in arguing about it.....
chillercm 9 months ago
@chillercm According to you, if China were not communist and Tibet should be a part of China right? Well China is not as communist as before and it will be less communist in the future. Both communism and nazi are from your country, you should be ashamed. So shut up on our internal affairs.
dilegentelectron 9 months ago
@dilegentelectron im not even from Germany and you should be ashamed for calling it nazi because it is NOT under nationalist rule anymore and it only was for a short period of time. BTW nationalism started in Italy, and communism in Russia, go learn some history. and YES if China were not communist and people had rights like freedom of expression then I would say Tibet should be part of China. Theres a reason why China is behind the US in worlds most hated countries(Germany isnt hated anymore)!
chillercm 9 months ago
@chillercm
No, Communism didn't start in Russia. Marx was German.
TheTollundWoman 9 months ago
@TheTollundWoman So I aks you and all the Tibetan supporters on here? What are you going to do besides whine on youtube? Don't you get it? NO ONE CAN OR WANT TO risk a war with China over you guys. If California is part of the US even though the US beat up, raped, and robbed the Mexicans for it, can the Russians of Chinese go over and start a war with the US to free California? You keep believing what you want to believe, good luck. The last time I checked, the PRC flag still flies over Lhasa.
arodspecialist 8 months ago
@arodspecialist
The French flag used to wave over Algiers and the Union Jack used to wave over Delhi. Fortunately those days are over and colonialism is dead...the CCP's colonialism will fail. Its just a matter of time.
And please. Go ahead, invade California. You'll be doing us all a huge favor :D
TheTollundWoman 8 months ago
@dilegentelectron just to make something straight, Tibet IS better off under China's rule. why I say this??? I say fuck the Dalai Lama!
chillercm 9 months ago
@chillercm
How does a foreign occupation, the imprisonment and murder of thousands of civilians, the systematic destruction of an entire culture and religion (particularly during the cultural revolution) the settler colonialism practiced by the CCP, and the brutal torture of dissidents make Tibet "better off"?
TheTollundWoman 9 months ago
@TheTollundWoman You, like the few hundred on supporters on here constantly refer back to China of the old. I mean, I am a Ugher and I felt the pain. However, the last 30 years, China adopted new plans and went 360 degrees away from what crazy Mao did with Russia's influence. Now look at us. Fine, if 1720's Kong Xi annexation is deemed bullshit to you then face the real fact. YOU ARE NOW part of China as recognized by the UN and the 5 nations that holds the finally vote on the UN council.
arodspecialist 8 months ago
@arodspecialist
As long as the CCP maintains a one-party state, censors, imprisons and tortures dissidents, crushes protestors with tanks and murders people for their religion (the Falun Gong etc.), nothing has really changed. Economically the CCP has allowed some important liberalization but politically and socially they have maintained the same brutal system founded by Mao. In order for Maoism to end, the CCP must end its one-party monopoly on power.
TheTollundWoman 8 months ago
@TheTollundWoman Okay, good perspective, but why? Tell me why China has to adopt a multi-party sytem? We were never Democratic to begin with. Since the last 5000 plus years of written history, Chinese civilization as a whole as always been brutal. We have always been totalitarian governed. Again, tell me why it is good. Just look at the US right now and all its allies. Google National debt or Natonal Balance. The US is nubmer 191 in the world. 14 trillion is a lot of money for more freedom?
arodspecialist 8 months ago
@arodspecialist
Yes, there was a democracy in China! From 1911 to 1949, the REPUBLIC of China. Until Communist thugs overthrew it. And the imperial feudal system was repressive, but never totalitarian. and the US is not really a model democracy, because discourse is effectively limited to two parties, though at least there's free speech. the Coalition systems in europe are a much better example of demoracy at work
TheTollundWoman 8 months ago
@TheTollundWoman I can't even believe what I'm reading. You're calling the ROC-era in China democratic? Half of it was filled by periods in which warlords succesfully fragmented the country and it finnaly came to an end thanks to efforts of Chiang Kai Shek. But he didn't unite China under a Democracy; but under a single-party (KMT) state with a complete monopoly on the political system and you call that a Democracy. If anything, the ROC-era was one of the worst periods in Chinese history.
TheBrolit 6 months ago
@TheTollundWoman No government on Earth is perfect. Not the emperical system under tyrants, nor the Republic system found by the Romans which the modern world adopts right now. Not even the Byzantine capitalistic setup. And certainly not the conquesting type of the Huns and Mongolians. NONE! The only difference between all these systems is the ability to prosper under the leadership which governs them. If you have good leadership and people's neccesity are met, it goes 4ever.
arodspecialist 8 months ago
@TheTollundWoman Check "External Debt" Check that link out and see why a nation should go democratic. ALL of US's allies are in major debt. China makes $286B in suprlus yearly and has a national debt of only $400B. We are a different nation than your idiotic assumption of the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s. Did you know Deng Xiaoping almost got executed for going against Mao during Cultural Revolution? It was not until after Mao's death Deng insisted on change.
arodspecialist 8 months ago
@arodspecialist
"We are a different nation" So why is Liu Xiabo still in prison for writing 7 sentences critical of the govt., why are writers like Liao Yiwu still censored, why is it still illegal to criticize the Tiananmen Square massacre, and why is only one political party- the CCP- legal? And remind me when Hu Jintao was elected by the Chinese people- oh wait, he wasn't. He's a dictator.
TheTollundWoman 8 months ago
@TheTollundWoman I will educate you on this one. China has been doing this for as long as written history was made. We have way too many people and way too many ancient beliefs. If it is counter productive or counter ogvrnment where stirs might trigger civil wars, they will put it down. In modern days we simply do not want China to break into many countries like the USSR. Huo Jintao was never elected, the party chose him as a successor. Are you going to give me something good? Really!
arodspecialist 8 months ago
@arodspecialist
Something good? Try democracy, rule of law and basic human rights. It never fails :D
TheTollundWoman 8 months ago
@arodspecialist
Also can you explain why the Communist party continues supporting Kim Jong Il's dictatorship and forcibly repatriating refugees who flee to China?
TheTollundWoman 8 months ago
@arodspecialist
too many ancient beliefs? all the more reason to get rid of the communist regime, which actively tried to destroy those beliefs! democracy will not cause a "civil war" in China, in fact it is further delaying democracy which is more likely to cause a civil war. Disparity between the Communist elite and the rest of the population is growing rapidly. This cannot enable a "harmonious society"!
TheTollundWoman 8 months ago
@TheTollundWoman Forcing China to become a Democracy simply overnight will do more bad than good. And you need to be careful to which kind of "Democracy" you're referring to; turning China into a Western-style Democracy with Western-style institutions will not bring good results and more likely civil war like arodspecialist said. Measurable steps to a Democracy should be taken in China, like what is currently happening; not through a revolution what the Western elite and critics advocate for.
TheBrolit 6 months ago
@arodspecialist
Deng Xiaoping was China's version of Khruschev, he was decent and smart enough to oppose the brutality of totalitarianism but he still wanted a repressive, authoritarian government and wasn't willing to bring an end to one-party rule. Deng Xiaoping has my respect for resisting Mao, but he still didn't go far enough. And Hu Jintao has turned back the clock a lot.
TheTollundWoman 8 months ago
@TheTollundWoman I mean China is bad blah blah blah, but Tibet is....................oh under Chinese rule. wake me up when you guys have balls to start a rebellion and kick China out. 60 years an counting and you guys are nohwere near getting us out. Well ,okay maybe YOUTUBE can help you guys out. YEAH, get all the Tibetans to go on youtube and complan and bitch, maybe CHINA WILL leave.
arodspecialist 8 months ago
@dilegentelectron
Fine. Have your "territorial integrity." But get rid of the Communist thugs
TheTollundWoman 9 months ago
@TheTollundWoman that's our own business... shut your hole .
dilegentelectron 9 months ago
@dilegentelectron
The CCP has violated international law, therefore it is not just "your own business" its the Hague's business.
TheTollundWoman 9 months ago
@TheTollundWoman what law .. building military bases all around China isn't threatening us? crusing in China's water isn't threatening us? you are not justice . shut your hole .
dilegentelectron 9 months ago
@Noctis6969 There are two foreign maps that I know of that shows Tibet as a part of China before 1950.
The British "Highways of Empire", made sometime after WWI, shows TIbet as a part of the ROC.
The UN Map of the world 1945 also shows Tibet as a part of China. I suggest you google those maps and see for yourself.
moviemakerrules 10 months ago
@Noctis6969 Okay, lets say you are correct. All old maps are bullshit. How about now? Tibet is recognized by the UN as part of China and even Russia does not dare to offend its borders under the "friendship treaty." So my question is this: Are the Tibetan supporters going to do anything besides bitching on here for decades? Every independent nation on this planet FOUGHT for their freedom. From the island 3rd world small nation of Haiti against the French to the Us against Britain. How about you
arodspecialist 8 months ago
Aren't we missing something? As an Asian-American student (I used to live in China and am studying Chinese history), my question is, if Tibet really is a part of China, then why don't all Tibetans agree with that?
Also, if you actually want to change some opinions here, you should lay off the cheesy music and profanity-laden insults (with too many question marks). This just makes you sound like a spoiled, whiny teenager, bent on alienating other people, not educating them.
gritsandsoymilk 11 months ago 3
@gritsandsoymilk because their "spiritual" guide dalai-lama, which is equal to the middle age pope, said so. and because that he's a divine image to some tibetan, those tibetans believe him in every thing he say, true or false, good or bad. but some of them dont believe in dalai-lama, so they do believe tibet is a part of china.
ThePegasusknight 8 months ago
@gritsandsoymilk WE are not trying to change opinions as there is no need. Tibet presently is recognized in the UN as part of China and eve Russia will not test its legitimacy. Do you think Hawaiians are happy with the US killing their people and annexing Hawaii as part of the US? Of course not, and so are the Tibetans. Unfortunate for the Tibetans, their history is deeply entwined with China's and is considered as a major Chinese minority tribe since the Tang. Emperor Kang Xi actually CONTINUE
arodspecialist 8 months ago
@arodspecialist
Even if Tibet were part of China (which its not...), the CCP is not even the legitimate government of China itself...And unfortunately you're right the UN does not *yet* recognize Tibet as independent, when the UN was founded it didn't even recognize India as independent though. Things change. Countries that were once colonized always gain their freedom eventually. Tibet will be no exception. Communists like yourself are fighting a losing battle against history :D
TheTollundWoman 8 months ago
@TheTollundWoman I hope you understand UN is a puppet show. China and all the powerful nations play to rules because we want to keep the peace. Legitimacy of a country is not by what other people tell you, it is by what you can defend. When a country is strong, your words is GOD. When you are weak, others can take your shit and you will lose it until you get back. How do you think the US came about? Now to Tibet. Fine, no more arguing. We TOOK your shit. 60 years, think you can get it back?
arodspecialist 8 months ago
@arodspecialist
Strong nations are never able to fully defeat freedom fighters even when they have the technical advantage. India and Kenya beat the British empire, Algeria beat the French empire, and Tibet will defeat the PLA. Just wait. :D
TheTollundWoman 8 months ago
@gritsandsoymilk Made a formal annexation of Tibet in 1720 as they did with Taiwan earlier. But the Qing grew weak and the outside nations wanted a piece of China, so these annexations were not recognized. China can not defend them so why recognize them? Britain who ruled India wanted Tibet also by promising Tibetan Dali Lama and the ruling class everything under the sun. They tried and lost eventually. These people are bitter because they see PRc of the 50s rather than the progress of 2011.
arodspecialist 8 months ago
@gritsandsoymilk You should go to heaven and ask the native northern american died in 200-250 year agos, do they agree the land of US or Canada are belong to them as they were majority population back then? OK, they cant answer it by their mouth or vote now
Chanchyin 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@gritsandsoymilk You should go to heaven and ask the native northern american died in 200-250 year agos, do they agree the land of US or Canada are belong to them as they were majority population back then? OK, they cant answer it by their mouth or vote now
Chanchyin 4 months ago
@gritsandsoymilk
Do all americans consider themselves American? There are numerous native american separatist groups as well as separatist groups in California, Alaska, Texas, and Hawaii.
Do all british consider themselves british? No wonder there's all this talk of scotland and ireland independence!!
tahenhao 4 months ago
Yuan is both Mongol and Chinese empires and history.
Just like Barack Obama is an American, but if you want to be more specific, a Kenyan American.
Phead128 11 months ago
@Phead128 NO IT'S NOT IT'S MONGOLIAN, It subjegated the Chinese along with the Tibetans. Why can't you answer this, if the Yuan empire was Chinese then why isn't the British Empire Indian or both British and Indian
StopEastPropaganda 11 months ago
@StopEastPropaganda
Yuan is CHINESE DYNASTY, NOT MONGOLIAN. Mongolian people do not exist. They are a myth, and Genghis Khan is Korean.
Phead128 11 months ago
@Phead128 Now I know you're fucked up -_-
StopEastPropaganda 11 months ago
@StopEastPropaganda
So Mongols are not Chinese? Why do Americans say that Zhang Tie Quan, an MMA boxer of Mongolian ethnic descent is Chinese?
Phead128 11 months ago
@Phead128 An ethnic Mongol in China would be Chinese by nationality, But a British person Ind India would be Indian by nationality but that doesn't make the British empire Indian Just as that doesn't make the yuan empire Chinese. You didn't answer my question.
StopEastPropaganda 11 months ago
@StopEastPropaganda
Yuan Empire is a part of Mongol and Chinese history.
Phead128 11 months ago
@Phead128 I already told you that would be true if there was a two state union between China and Mongolia, there was not, it was a forceful conquest.
StopEastPropaganda 11 months ago
@StopEastPropaganda
"Yuan" is Chinese btw.
Phead128 11 months ago
@Phead128 "Turk" is derived from a Chinese word but that doesn't make the Ottoman empire Chinese
StopEastPropaganda 11 months ago
@StopEastPropaganda
Also, Mongols had no concept of "dynasty", since they were just tribal nomadic with no sedentary civilization. "Dynasty" and "Yuan" are both Chinese derivatives.
Phead128 11 months ago
@Phead128 is that why it remained in Mongolia for another 300 years after the Ming was founded?
StopEastPropaganda 11 months ago
you are seriously a fucking retard for thinking this makes any sense
schmian17 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE TIBET AND THATS FROM A COMMUNIST FREEDOM FIGHTER... FREE TIBET! FREE TIBET! FREE TIBET! FREE TIBET! FREE TIBET! FREE TIBET!
confusedfoil 1 year ago
FREE TIBET! FREE TIBET!! FREE TIBET!! ENOUGH SAID. CHINESE ARE ROACHES COMMUNISTS UGLY SHORT LEGGED BEINGS WITH UGLY EYES AND FLAT NOSE ATTACHED TO A EVEN FLATTER FACE!!! THERE;S THE DIFFERENCE. VIOLENCE MAKE MONEY MORE MONEY POPULATION NOTHING MORE NOTHING MORE!
momogompo 1 year ago
@momogompo I do not disagree with your opignon, although I strongly disagree with your hate of communism and your racism.
Something makes me fell like you are american...
ANARCHISM FOR THE WIN!
GregTom2 11 months ago
Get a life. You probably don't know anything about China because you wasted time making this nonsense video with fatuous words and facts. Have you not seen the leaked torture tapes of what Chinese soldiers do the Tibetans? You caused genocide in Tibet you and the Chinese government, the Chinese people are NOT bad it is the GOVERNMENT!