Reaganomics vs. Obamanomics Thom mixes it up with Reagan biographer Craig Shirley

[vechorik]

The Debt Ceiling under President Reagan was raised eighteen times to a total of $1.85 trillion (See Table 7.3). This is less than the $3 trillion-plus already raised under President Obama! Raising the Ceiling 18 times during the eight Reagan years meant a Ceiling battle every 5.3 months (on average), with an average rise of only $102 billion per increase. So… does Obama really want to get the Reagan Treatment?

[lisabob22]

President Carter had almost all economic indicators up before he left office. Carter had better job creation numbers than Reagan. Reagan almost tripled the national debt, and started the republican war on the working class. Reagan cut taxes, and then he raised them on the working class and the poor 11 times.

[goodatbasebal]

@lisabob22 Carter did'nt do any of that, Inflation was far higher under Carter & the Economy was terrible. I can't understand how you could even make the claim that he had better job creation?

Reagan did not raise taxes on the poor. haha.Where the hell are you getting your info from? The Young Turks? hahaha Do yourself a favor and start by looking up census data.

FyI Google the Income disparity during Clinton & now because Income increased in both while disparity increased.

Inform yourself.

[goodatbasebal]

I am not surprised that Mr. Hartmann confuses the difference between a 28 year expansion and 28 year deficit. The comparision is apples and oranges.

A deficit is directly correlated to a presidents fiscal policy. Just because Reagan was a big spender does not correlate that Obama had to run up the deficits as well.

It's a flawed premise that the left never understands and people such as Mr. Hartmann have trouble self rationalizing to themselves...

[lisabob22]

@goodatbasebal I think it is obvious that your logic is lacking. President Obama did not run up the deficits. The huge deficits we face since 2008 have to do with: two wars, tax cuts, capital gain tax cuts, inheritance tax cuts, Medicare Plan D, and the yearly huge increases in the private sector health care costs. Reagan almost tripled the national debt completely from his policies. No republican president has balanced the budget since Ike.

[goodatbasebal]

@lisabob22 What the hell? Are you kidding? Do yourself a favor and read some Economic data.

Deficits are only created through Government spending adventures; if you keep more of your own money that does not mean the Government spent money, it just took less in revenue.

FYI No Democrat has payed off the National debt EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR, Get that threw your thick skull because your blatant idiocy is jaw dropping.

P.s: Go drag your knuckles somewhere else please, you're way out of your league.

[lisabob22]

@goodatbasebal who said anything about paying off the national debt? Reagan almost tripled the national debt with his policies. Deficits are created when expenditures are more than revenues. When you implement policies that cost lots of money and decrease revenues it is obvious that you will have deficits. The problem with Reaganomics is that it takes money from the poor, the working poor and the working class and transfers it up to the wealthy. Income disparity since Reagan proves this

[goodatbasebal]

@lisabob22 If you pay of the Natl debt you wouldn't have a deficit.

I am not defending Reagan? I am only pointing out the fallacious comparison between Fiscal Policy ( deficits) and Future deficits (when the president is out of office).

Deficits are only created when Revenue < Government Spending, deficits are created only through Government action in the market.

Tax cuts do not =/= Government spending, Government increases spending when revenues increase & to assume otherwise is foolish.

[ctonyp]

@goodatbasebal What a cute and myopic perspective of society.

Trying to create a "free market" in an economy that relies on educated and healthy workers is a fallacy. The only way that wealth is produced beyond what any individual can produce for himself relies on selling the product of other people's labor for more than you paid them to do it.

If you are becoming richer because of the work of others, you are a socialist. If you aren't a socialist in that sort of economy, you are a parasite.

[goodatbasebal]

@ctonyp No, no one has ever said ( to my knowledge at least), that you need an educated society to have a free market. That, to begin with is your fallacious assumption. Conversely you need to be highly educated in a Democratic society which is impossible by any standard

Now, the irony here is that the worker gets paid according to his ability & if he is able to work at a pace which exceeds many other workers, his pay increases.

Wealth is only produced when consumers find value & not a CEOs.

[RonaldReaganRocks1]

This guy Hartman is a fucking idiot.

[lisabob22]

@RonaldReaganRocks1 too bad all the facts are on Hartman's side and make you look like the idiot

[scottsway]

THOM HARTMAN FOR PRESIDENT!

[Stgfre]

where is reagan when you need him

[royaladam]

Fuck Reagan!

[joe035]

LOL Obama has continued the disaster Bush escalated under his presidency there is no change. FDR didn't end the depression the war in Europe did with contracts for our industry and the draft. Unemployment until mid 1941 was 14% yet Democrats credit the New Deal which is a lie. Obama wants to emulate the new deal which would mean buying votes with promise of jobs & increasing taxes on those who have jobs. Insanity!

[erichicks1]

This was a crappy video. How can you compare the two. Wake up America - The question is simple - would you like to keep the money you earn and have the freedom to do what you would like with it - or would you like the federal government to take your money through taxes and spend it or distribute it to whom they choose. If you would like to keep your money vote for the conservative (republican) - if you would like the government to choose for you vote for the liberal (democrat).

[TheJafrikan]

@erichicks1 You idiot, its nothing like that. Both parties are corrupt and both parties steal your money.

[erichicks1]

@TheJafrikan Ha Ha Ha... Good call little buddy... I'm the idiot huh?

Keep voting for these dumb ass liberals then... and yes I called them dumb asses because their mascot is an ass (donkey)... and they act like asses. With the exception of three Republicans, they (the Republicans) did not vote 4 the stimulus bill, or the obamacare bill. Unlike the liberal (democrats), they like to read a bill before they vote on it! Maybe the liberals (democrats) can't read or maybe they just don't care...

[TheJafrikan]

@erichicks1 I dont vote for either one, and what makes you think Im a dumbass liberal? And the republicans didnt read the fucking bill either, no one did, they all chose on based on what there party agreed on, or because whatever fucking company bribed them. Your sure quick to accuse me as a fucking liberal. Fuck liberals and republicans, people need to get up and vote themselves, and actually help themselves, instead of having a bunch of greedy assholes vote for us.

[erichicks1]

@TheJafrikan READ MY RESPONSE TO YOU - I never called you a dumb ass liberal. So don't put words in my mouth... The point I made was that the Republicans stood strong listened to there constituents, and were not given enough time to read 2,000 + pages of this health care bill and so they did not vote yes on it. They stood strong and voted NO. You are right - no one read the bill, however the democrats did vote yes on it.

[yellowkrux]

@erichicks1 Both "conservative" Republicans & "liberals" Democrats (neither are actually conservative or liberal) believe in wealth redistribution, to the rich. Wake up you are sleeping. Do you think the wealthy should pay less taxes than the "middle class", do you think the government should run a massive deficit raising taxes in the long run? Do you think we should ignore our crumbling infrastructure?

Wait you're a Republican.

[erichicks1]

@yellowkrux I do not think that the wealthy should pay less taxes than the so-called middle class. However I also do not think that they should have to pay more... I think our government has a tremendous spending problem, and you do not raise taxes on the rich to redistribute there wealth to those who do nothing. Spread my work ethnic... not my wages. I work very hard for all that I earn, and I have never worked for a poor person. Have you? Obamanomics = Trickle up Poverty.

[yellowkrux]

@erichicks1 You do realize Demand side economics aka funnel economics actually works, we spend money to rebuild our infrastructure that money gets funneled back to the rich. The workers are the ones who create wealth in the first place, not the rich.

Seriously you nothing of economics, if e continue with trickle down the money starts to stagnate at the top. Also spreading the wealth sounds better, because odds are you have no work ethic.

[yellowkrux]

@erichicks1 I also have to ask, are you actually implying that spreading the wealth is wrong? So it's actually wrong to give someone a fair share?

& Have you ever even seen an econ book,demand side econ works. Calling it "trickle up poverty" is only true if you think 9million dollars is poverty compared to 11million.

[erichicks1]

@yellowkrux Your a Statist and you need to read the Constitution. Yes I have a problem with spreading the wealth. "Because odds are - you have no work ethic" - Your a fool. Why is it that Germany has stopped taxing the rich and redistributing wealth and there econoomy is turning around... They rejected the faulty notion that a 800 billionn dollar stimullus bill helps give a country's economy a boost. Like I said read the constitution - Your peanut brain might just learn something...

[yellowkrux]

@erichicks1 You're an idiot who doesn't know what the term statist means, nor are you aware of the difference between "your" & "you'r". & Sorry the WORD constitution isn't an argument in reality. & Why are you bringing up wealth redistribution?

Oh wait that's right, you're a Republican & think that if you just mention the words "constitution","statist", & "wealth redistribution", enough people will agree with you.

Sorry that only works on Republicans, not thinking men.

[erichicks1]

@yellowkrux Sorry Yellow, I'm an American. I love my Liberty. My Freedom. Unlike you - I believe our Federal Government has limitations. I love the Founding Fathers and I love the Constitution. I Love the Declaration of Independence and I love the Bill of Rights. I do not agree with moderate republicans that are not conservative. Let me guess... Now your going to say that I don't know what conservative means... True Patriotic Freedom Loving Americans are sick of this shit. November is Coming.

[yellowkrux]

@erichicks1 I love how you can't actually defend your ideology, you just CLAIM to love liberty, & make accusations. You love the founding fathers, Which ones?

& you're into necrophilia? Conservative is just a code word, neolibs,theocrats,& bigots use in place of the actual descriptions, you know that, other wise you wouldn't use it. You've never read the constitution, nor do give a damn about the constitution nor founding fathers other than you like to pretend they support your ideology.

[yellowkrux]

@erichicks1 Oh I forgot to ask, do you honestly think the 80% of Americans whos wages have dropped during the past 30 years have no work ethic?

[erichicks1]

@yellowkrux Dang Yellow - You don't stop. Don't you have anything better to do...A word of advice for you Yellow... Stop reading the NY Times and get a life...

[Ridetherockittt]

Once the threat of inflation abated in late 1982, Volcker cut interest rates and flooded the economy with money, fueling an expansion that lasted seven years. Neither Carter nor Reagan had much to do with the economic events that occurred during their terms.

[Ridetherockittt]

Carter cannot be blamed for the double-digit inflation that peaked on his watch, because inflation started growing in 1965 and snowballed for the next 15 years. To battle inflation, Carter appointed Paul Volcker as Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, who defeated it by putting the nation through an intentional recession.

[KarlBonner1982]

Dammit, lost the second reply. Anyway, in the 1970s the Fed continued to aim too high with its targets so that inflation continued. Then came the oil shocks and finally the war debts. So there were a ton of inflationary pressures that hit within a fairly narrow time frame.

[KarlBonner1982]

Actually the inflationary period from 1965-1980 got started by two errors: The first was in fact the combination of Vietnam and domestic social spending and the second was that the Federal Reserve underestimated the natural rate of unemployment in the late 1960s and early '70s. The combined monetary and fiscal push overheated the economy in the late 1960s and that got the inflation rate starting its upward push.

[SirJamestheIII]

ironically unemployment was higher during reagan's presidency. also wages decreased. but that all changed in the later part of his presidency. even still he had a short term solution to the problem. which eventually did not work

[goatman257]

Good show.

[chozenone111]

thom can't keep up with craigs logic

[lilgurly1607]

Are you watching the same video? I see it the other way, Craig had to eat his words in the end and admit that he agreed with thom about the debt Reagan left behind. In the beginning, Craig was praising Reagan for leaving a 28 year eco growth bla bla bla. But he had to change his tune as they both honestly dissected what tactics were used. Watch it again.

[myleftFIST]

Right in the beggining you can tell Craig Shirely is full of BS. He says Reagan created 28 years of growth. Thom counters that Reagan created 28 years of massive debt. Craig then says it is unfair to blame Reagan for things that happened after his presidency. LOL Craig you just credited him for things that happened after his presidency!

[MrFangole]

@myleftFIST Wait stop the press Obama will create the biggest debt ever!!! 

[smilodon1]

EgerB48 is typical of republicanderthals. Facts aren't on their side so they result to telling lies as if they knew what they were talking about. Until the second Bush came along I thought no president could be worse than Reagan. Bush make Reagan look like an amateur.

[459yamaha]

"never argue with an idiot; they will bring you down to their level and then beat you up with experience." Thats why its a waste of time to argue with liberals.

[rogerrabbit056]

While I agree that Reagan definitely brought about a debt that will always haunt us, I disagree with the claim that Carter wasn't responsible for the period of stagflation. The Fed's decision to limit the money supply in '79 led to a sudden increase in interest rates, thus lowering consumer spending and borrowing by businesses...I think the stimulus package that the current administration has adopted is a much better attempt towards encouraging spending and revitalizing our economy.

[lynchmobb2000]

It's so easy for Reagan's 80's economy to look good when he's tripling and quadrupling the national debt! Things looks great for a while when you're putting everything on the credit card.

[EgerB48]

This is where I get a kick out of you liberals: read the Constitution (you do know what that is?) What part of the government actually passes legislation? Spends the money? Uses the credit card? Who proposed more spending? A democrat controlled congress spent the money.

[lynchmobb2000]

@EgerB48

And who signed those bills into law?

Typical uneducated conservative.

[EgerB48]

Duh. Perhaps your not old enough to remember the shit Reagan had to put up with to get some of what he wanted? I wish he would have vetoed more than he did, but the liberal dems had no problem approving everything. Glad I could clear that up for you "genius".

[lynchmobb2000]

@EgerB48

So now Reagan gets credit for things you *wish* he did?

Must be great to live in your deluded world.

[EgerB48]

I gave him credit for not using his veto pen more? Talk about deluded. Since you claim to deal in "facts" (snicker) just tell me in regards to tax revenues, job growth, inflation, interest rates; what where they like at the end of Carter's term and what where they like at the end of Reagan's?

p.s.- Darwin was wrong. Man-made GCC is all about power, control, money and politics. NOT SCIENCE.

[lynchmobb2000]

@EgerB48

Let's talk about my original point which you have never addressed, the national debt. The debt which went from $1 Trillion to $4 Trillion during Reagan's 8 years. Up to $9 Trillion by the end of the Reagan-Bush era, even WITH the Clinton surplus of the late 90's.

Republican fiscal policies are insane orgies of tax cuts and spending which have to be cleaned up by democrats.

Also, evolution is a fact. 99.8% of all scientists accept its truth. Same for the fact of man-made GCC.

[EgerB48]

You are a simpleton of the highest order. The 'Clinton" surplus? Just tell me who was in control of congress during Reagan/Bush and Clinton? I suppose you can provide documentary evidence that it was Bill Clinton that dragged an out of control republican congress kicking and screaming to a balanced budget and a surplus? Again, you never responded to my point about who approves the budget?

Darwin? Talk to me about the Gypsy Peppered Moth. Prove all scientists believe in "man-made" GCC.

[Dessna32]

i get a kick out of republicans who equate democrats with liberals; trust me, they are quite different

[lisabob22]

In the 1980's 18 million new jobs were created, so I don't know where Shirely gets 20 millions new jobs, he also forgets to mention the reason there was 18 million new jobs was mostly due to the baby boomers and more women in the job force, and that there was 22 million jobs created in the 70's

[jhamm999]

its time for the flat tax to get the economy rolling again.

[Scoforever]

Fair tax would be better.

[jhamm999]

i like that too. but first we would have to repeal the sixteenth amendment. otherwise we could wind up with both.

[Scoforever]

Switch to a flat tax. Then on the day that the 38th state allows the 16th amendment then swotch to a fair tax.

[mickatmidnight]

You tell'em Thom!!! Roll back the Reagan tax cuts and stop hammering the middle class....there's just not that many of us left to tax anymore

[jmjfanss]

@mickatmidnight

How about ending the income tax, repeal the 16th amendment, no more taxes.