Traditional Catholic Latin Mass - Catechism #1

[HomeSkillet489]

its so weird how Fr. Cooper is talking about movies when I hear the SSPX condemns movies/TV as a mortal sin for being an "occasion of sin."

[Oblationem]

@HomeSkillet489

I suppose it depends on the movie eh?

[HomeSkillet489]

@Oblationem I'm not a member of the SSPX however I do have family/friends that are and I occasionally go to one of their masses, but I do hear that the SSPX condemns watching movies and having a TV set in the home a mortal sin for being an "occasion of sin." Is this true or not? I'm just wondering. God bless.

[Oblationem]

@HomeSkillet489

Well… again, it depends of the movie eh? If the movie is “Debbie does Dallas” it’s a sin right? If it’s “My Fair Lady” or some such film, it’s not a sin, right? I remember Fr. Cooper at one of his sermons saying something like, “it’s not a sin, but it’s close to a sin.” It’s akin to Jesus saying, if you do it in your head, it’s the same as doing it, right?

No it’s not a mortal sin, but it could lead to a mortal sin, right? So be careful out there…

[HomeSkillet489]

@Oblationem Thanks for the tip brother. God bless you and your family and friends and have a blessed New Year. Peace.

[laroquea2012]

I faithfully attend the Traditional Latin Mass. Yet, I am so saddened when I come across Catholics who put others down for attending the Novus Ordo. One, most people do not have access yet to the TLM. Secondly, that behavior is not the type that draws others to Christ who is present in the Eucharist in BOTH Masses. "The Gates of Hell shall not prevail..." Kyrie Eleison.

[Oblationem]

@laroquea2012

I am not so sure that Christ is present in both Mass’s. Seriously, there is doubt about the new mass. The Catholic teaching is that, Catholics may not partake in doubtful Sacraments. Even if one says that some Traditional Sacraments are not legal, there is no doubt that they are in fact valid. Yes, the gates of Hell will not prevail… Many, hundreds and thousands have ‘moved’ including myself to be near a Traditional Catholic Latin Mass; consider yourself lucky.

[laroquea2012]

@Oblationem The Catechism states that even if a priest is in mortal sin, because of his office, when he performs the work of that office, the sacrament is legal. It is logical to conclude that regardless of the form, when a priest consecrates the Host, it IS the Blood and Body. Christ can be wherever He wants to be. He is God. The greatest saints remained faithful and humble in the worst times of Church history. We need to pray for more priests for the E.F. and remain humble. IMO

[Oblationem]

@laroquea2012

For a Sacrament to be valid there must be proper, matter, form and intention. If I were at a Novus Ordo church I would be worrying about matter, form and intention. In some parishes I would worry more, and in some less – but I don’t have to worry at all at a Traditional Catholic Latin Mass. Non do I have to worry if the Hosts were left-over from a prior Novus Ordo mass.

[davidemtl]

@laroquea2012

the new mass is not valid, I used to attend it, as true caholics we should warn them not to attend the new mass

[modomnoc1010]

I'm not a member of SSPX but there hearts are in the right place. I hope they come back into the fold of the Catholic Church. The Mass is the most important prayer ever. And thankfully the Latin Mass is coming back and will be as available as the ordinary vernacular form of the Mass. I attend both forms of the Mass.

[Oblationem]

To come back into the fold as you put it would be to deny the Catholic Faith. Traditional Catholics are still celebrating the Mass as our forefathers did. We didn’t go anywhere.

To say that you go to both forms of the Mass is akin to saying; I go to a Presbyterian service and a Lutheran service. Neither form of the Novus Ordo mass is valid. To be allowed to say the Old Mass one must accept the New mass. Catholic Doctrine prohibits acceptance of the non-Catholic new mass.

[SPNWnewswire]

I'm not catholic, but this priest sounds mature, well-read and dedicated to sound tradition.

[hawkeye125646]

You should read the book of Isaiah 22: 15-25. Then read Matthew 16: 13-20, then John 21: 15-25. In these passages, God referred to the Keys of both David and of Heaven. He gave the keys to Simon, whose name was changed to Peter. Peter made decisions for the new followers of Christ. In John, he was given his job, which was to teach the church, in sacred tradition, sacred scripture, and magisterial teachings. May God bless each and every one of you! 

[nickeeboy]

"None of you would complain if I was out hunting or I was spending my time entertaining guests, but because I'm at mass you complain." wow 700 years ago complaining against a king?

Today when we want to skip overtime (actually make time) to go to mass more often, we're called unproductive. I guess it's all part of being in this world but not belonging to it.

[Oblationem]

Yes, God wants us to be one. God founded ONE Church the Catholic Church not several fraudulent churches. If you want no division get into Gods Church the Catholic Church.One cannot receive "grace" from a fraud, no matter how strongly you feel or know it is a fraud or not. That also includes the fradulent Novus Ordo mass. (Small m).

[TheEcumenator]

i saw that painting of St Thomas Moore at windsor castle!

he appears in the video at 1:25

[brendancurran84]

This guy is a total book burning fascist wack-job.

Poor Jesus! to have Catholics as his representatives.

[Oblationem]

Well you are correct when you say, Catholics are His representatives. HE founded the Catholic Church that we belong to. If you dont like His Church start your own? What! You already did, oh

[gabsylv]

@Oblationem You assume what is incorrect...that there is such a thing as a god that ever sent his son down to earth. the whole concept of a divine church is a myth. No disrespect intended, but that's the painful truth.

[Oblationem]

No disrespect, but you're in for a suprise.

[jim50505]

What always amazes me is that people like you always come to these pages and make comments like you have - why are watching?

[jim50505]

What are you doing here watching this if you don't believe?

[1God1Church1Faith]

DO NOT INSULT THE PRIEST YOU HERETIC!!!! It is the same as insulting Christ Himself!!!

[AsatorTOX]

Really? Interesting. I'm a recent convert. Can you tell me some about your faith over PM? I don't have Catechism yet

[1God1Church1Faith]

Do not insult Christ by insulting His priest! The words of hate towards the people of God are heard by Him. Who are you to insult Christ's Church? Your insult is like spit on the face of Christ! Does this make you feel big? Does this make you feel like a man, to insult Christ's perfect Bride? Why not instead of attacking Christ and His Church, you go, confess your heresy, and come to His Only True Church. That is much better than making a fool of yourself before God and man.

[LaetareIerusalem]

Would you please be so nice as to justify your postiton? - There is absolutely no fascist word in this talk - and if I were in your shoes, I would start crying for myself... not for Him, know what I mean?

[chikotntw]

@brendancurran84 - What if someone said that you were a liberal, do-gooder priest that was more interested in community organizing than in actually saving souls?

The great white hope in the brown village of Pilsen in Chicago. Fr(?) Dahm sure picked an adequate replacement; didn't he?

There is a value in what you do, Father Curran, but there is also value in the Latin Mass & for you to call someone a fascist whack job is not Christ-like AT ALL. Shame on you.

Praise Che instead?

[cks125]

There is no salvation outside the church, there is salvation through the church! Other religions are false.

[Oblationem]

Yes, there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.

[cks125]

One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church...and no eternal salvation if one isn't baptised...sorry modernists...face facts!lol Modernism is the new "Anti-Christ"...with Vatican 2, you cannot tell if it is the real presence anymore...may the latin mass prevail over evil!

[Oblationem]

Bp. Williamson said: today Catholics have been made free to attend either the "extraordinary" or the "ordinary" form of Mass, according as they prefer the unchanging real God and His essentially unchanging true Mass, or both of them as suited to today's world. Now this recent freeing of attendance at the true Mass may have proceeded from the best of intentions of Benedict XVI, but the real God imposes on all of us to worship Him as He really is, and not as he has been downsized by modern man.

[SwedishFisches]

Great Job! : D

[FranklyMisterShankly]

I'm an ecclesiastical historian and great fan of the Latin Mass. This said, it depends how you perceive Church history. The Church has had a plurality of rites for centuries. Post-tridentine project of centralization & uniformity eliminated many of these distinctions in the Latin Church - and sanctioned Slavonic, Armenian and Maronite rites in the process. In many ways, Vatican II restored this plurality, making the Mass relevant in non-European cultures.

[Oblationem]

What does history tell you happened to the Church since the New Mass and Vatican II?

I view the New Mass and Vatican II as an attack against the Catholic Faith, negation of Our Lady's virginity and intentional omissions to weaken Original sin.

[Oblationem]

It must be very confusing reading modern popes and Vatican II for much of what they say goes against Church teaching and especially against the Council of Trent. However, remember that by Vatican II's own admission it was a Pastoral Council not carrying the theological weight as a Dogmatic Council, and that must have been the work of the Holy Spirit. So don't put too much stock in VII's Unitatis Redintegratio and Lumen Gentium.

[Oblationem]

Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo, profession of faith, Dec. 18, 1208.

"By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess THE ONE CHURCH, NOT OF HERETICS, but the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no one is saved."

[RonSea38]

How difficult it is for us to accept immutable truths! We live in an age of Modernism: change, change, change! I suppose if modern man were prayerful, he'd change a portion of the Lord's Prayer to "....my kingdom come, my will be done......" How very sad!

[garciadelacadena]

The reason why Latin was established as the official language was because of all the abuses and confusion that the protestants brought around the year 1500. In order to preserve and defend the Mass Pope Saint Pius V codified the Mass on what is know as Tridentine Mass. Even today, although Novus Ordo is celebrated in different languages, the official language in Rome is still Latin. And there's a very important reason why. Later I will explain!!!

Viva Cristo Rey, Viva la Virgen de Guadaluper!!

[jc00213]

Latin is the langauge of the Roman Catholic chruch because In Rome, people spoke latin and the churches in Europe were under the Roman church. In India, The two eastern rites, syro-Malabar and syro-Malankara dont use Latin, they use Malayalam but back then, Syraic was the lituagical langauge and those two are under Rome

[Oblationem]

Aramaic flourished in Jesus' time, it was the language of the people and Jesus spoke it, however, it's hard to believe that Jesus being who He is did not know how to speak Latin, Greek and Hebrew. Those are the three languages nailed to the cross at His crucifixion. Latin IS the official language of the Church.

[jc00213]

okay i get that he spoke other language but my point is that Latin is not the offical language of christianity. Ur god welcomes all languages. where does it say in the bible that latin is the language god prefers in worship?

[Oblationem]

God founded One Church on earth. That Church is the Holy Roman Catholic Church. The official language of God's Church on earth is Latin.

It doesn't say in the Bible that Latin is the language God prefers. The Bible also doesn't mention the words Holy Trinity, but all Christians believe in the Trinity. If you want to be a true Christian, get into God's Church.

PS: One can pray to God in all languages.

[jc00213]

What wrong with the Second Vatican. IT actually inproved the church by a lot. It better to celebrate mass in the language of the country because no one is speaking Latin any more

[Oblationem]

Judaism has its Hebrew; Islam has Arabic, Hinduism with Sanskrit. Christianity is no different. Latin is a sacred language and unifies all in the common liturgy, as Christ desired that we be as one. Latin is also the official language of the Church. The meaning of (Ecclesiastical Latin), Latin words that we use at Mass do not change, thus it prevents liberals from changing the words to a profane meaning.

[jc00213]

y Latin? Jesus didnt speak Latin. He spoke Aramaic. y not have Aramaic be the language of the church. Latin was the offical langauge of the Roman Empire but it doesnt represent Christianity

[Oblationem]

Yes, Jesus spoke Latin, and yes Latin is the official language of the Church, (see the Vatican web site)and yes the Holy Roman Catholic Church represents Christ's Church on earth. - Do you think that because Jesus spoke His Aramaic language He didn't know how to speak Latin?

[jc00213]

I meant that Aramaic was his native language.

The Roman Catholic Church is not the only church of Christ. All church's(including Othodox and Protestants) are the churchs of Christ. IF a group of people come together to worship Jesus, they are a church of Christ.

Latin is not the only language that represents Christianity. All languages represent christianity because the prayers that go to God vary in language

[Oblationem]

Yes, Aramaic was very common when Jesus walked on earth.

Again, the Holy Roman Catholic Church is God's Church on earth; it is the Church that God founded. God did not found a Protestant church. There are many others (good people) like the Orthodox (so-called) and a slew of Protestants that call them self's Christian and pray to God in all sorts of languages, but they are not in God's Church. Outside of the Church there is no salvation.

[jc00213]

I beg to differ. According to Christianity, if one is baptized by water and spirit, he will obtain salvation. God did not say that one must worship him in the Latin language. God is accepting to all people thus he is accepting to all languages

[Oblationem]

Beg all you want to, but outside of the Catholic Church there is no salvation.

Jesus Christ founded His one Church: Matt 16:18, "And I say to thee, thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church." He who is the truth, Jesus Christ, did not say Churches, did He? Taking phrases out of the Bible that you didn't write is akin to cutting a man's arm off and beating him to death with it. If you want to know what something means in the Bible, ask the Catholic Church.

[AnHonestChristian]

An interesting defense, however there is no scriptural proof that Matt. 16:18 establishes the primacy of St. Peter. There is no proof in the scripture that we are to worship in any language not akin to us, there is no scriptural proof Mary was immaculately conceived, nor of purgatory, nor of the priesthood of the ordained alone. If you know of any scriptural defense of the exclusivity of the Catholic Church and her truth in these matters, I would like to know of it.

[Oblationem]

1.

The 'Primacy of Peter' has been disputed by detractors on many points. Peter was given the primacy in Matt 16:18, "AND I SAY TO THEE, THOU ART PETER, AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH." Some say Peter was not the 'rock'. Others try to separate Peter from the Bishop of Rome, by trying to show he was never in Rome. Still others say the words 'I WILL' in Matt 16:18, denotes some future tense. They include Matt 16:19,...

[Oblationem]

2. It is obvious that Jesus spoke to Peter alone in Matt 16:19 and gave him personally, the power of binding and loosening. It is also obvious that Jesus again gave him the power of binding and loosening along with the other Apostles in Matt 18:18, and yet again in John 20:23. However, Jesus gave Peter and Peter alone, the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven in Matt 16:19

(Quotes 1 & 2 from: Catholic Treasure Chest).

[Oblationem]

Read Acts 3:15 (Author of Life) & Rom 13:1-2, (be subject to) and remember God did not found a protestant Church. The Catholic Church has a form of government called a theocracy and operates as a "Hierarchy". Like any other form of government, it has to have "authority" to function. The Church received its authority from its founder, Jesus Christ, not King James. The Church says that: Latin IS the official language of the Church. Other opinions are against God's Church, according to scripture.

[Oblationem]

"For nothing is impossible with GOD." Luke 1:37. Do you believe the doctrine of the Holy Trinity? Why? Is the doctrine defined in the Bible? Venerable Pope Pius IX who had the authority for God, declared the dogma of the Immaculate Conception on December 8, 1854:

[Oblationem]

Non Catholic theologians struggle trying to reconcile their denial of the existence of Purgatory with what Paul said in 1Corinthians 3:12-15:To whom do these verses refer? Obviously the person is not in hell, as verse 15 says "himself will be saved". He cannot be in heaven either as the same verse implies suffering, "as through fire", and there is no suffering in heaven. Catholic Treasure Chest (CTC)

[Oblationem]

These verses say that man will be purified by fire and then will be saved to enter Heaven. Where will this, "yet as though through fire", take place if not in a third place called Purgatory? The Greek word used for fire is "pursw" (puroo) of which "pur" is the root word for Purgatory. (CTC)

[Oblationem]

A.

All credible writers recognized, along with the Sacrifice of the Mass, the special priesthood in the Church. The origin of the universal priesthood extends back, as is known, to St. Peter, who declares the faithful, in their character of Christians, "a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices", and "a chosen generation, a kingly priesthood" (1 Peter 2:5, 9). (New Advent)

[Oblationem]

B.

But the very text shows that the Apostle meant only a figurative priesthood, since the "spiritual sacrifices" signify prayer and the term "royal" (regale, basileion) could have had but a metaphorical sense for the Christians. The Gnostics, Montanists, and Catharists, who, in their attacks on the special priesthood, had misapplied the metaphor, were just as illogical as the Reformers, since the two ideas, real and figurative priesthood, are quite compatible. (New Advent).

[Oblationem]

C.

It is clear from the foregoing that the Catholic clergy alone are entitled to the designation "priest", since they alone have a true and real sacrifice to offer, the Holy Mass. Consequently, Anglicans who reject the Sacrifice of the Mass are inconsistent, when they refer to their clergy as "priests". The preachers in Germany quite logically disclaim the title with a certain indignation. (New Advent)

[AnHonestChristian]

Also, Pope Paul VI said that all who sought the Creator would be saved (Lumen Gentium, Nov. 21, 1964)--which I don't agree with--but not only that, but all who are baptized are in communion with the Church and are saved (Unitatis Redintegratio). You may say Paul was apostate, however he became pope through apostolic succession and the Church was under him. Perhaps this displays the dangers of doctrinal progression?

[Oblationem]

Pope Paul VI was our first modern Pope, his biographer, Peter Hebblethwaite said that Montini was not particularly religious -- politics and the piano were his forte. Oscar Wilde (a homosexual) called him a man born for exceptions. The reading of Oscar Wilde's works as a young seminarian was decidedly strange. The floodgates of homosexuality in AmChurch were opened wide with Paul VI; take Lumen Gentium, and Unitatis Redintegratio for what they are worth. However, as you say, he was the Pope.

[chestertonrules]

The bible leaves some cracks in the door, let's not be hasty:

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:1-2

[Oblationem]

Hasty?

Well... Actually the Bible 1 John 2: 1-2 says, "My little children, these things I write to you, that you may not sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the just:

2. And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."

Douay Rheims Version.

[chestertonrules]

Given that Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world, how can you say that the Catholic Church is wrong by refusing to conclude that all outside of Catholicism are damned?

[Oblationem]

I'm not quite sure who you are talking to?

I don't say that on my own, it is the Catholic Church that God founded and gave authority to, to say these things. God/Church has said that, "outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation". Just as those outside of Noah's Ark were lost, so too you will be lost if you are not in the Catholic Church. The Ark today is, Traditional Catholicism. If you reject the Catholic Church, you reject Jesus Christ and His Church.

[chestertonrules]

Do you believe that the bible is the word of God? That's what the Church teaches, and what I believe.

Something you might have missed:

Luke 12:48

but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

[Oblationem]

Jesus founded the Catholic Church. He gave authority to 'that' Church. 'That' Church interprets what Bible verses mean. 'That' Church infallible defined fourteen times that "outside of the Catholic Church there is no salvation". When we disagree we are to go tell the 'Church'. If you don't agree with 'that' Church you are to be as a heathen and publican. Matt: 18:17. The Holy Bible is a Catholic book; the King of England wrote your book. Jesus founded the Catholic Church, you better get in it.

[chestertonrules]

Then you are a heathen. The Church teaches that all Christians subsist within the Catholic Church, even if they are not in full communion.

You have substituted your own fallible understanding for that of the church. I presume this is due to your own pride.

[Oblationem]

Perhaps the pride of the Roman Protestant Vatican II church, which decided to go against 2,000 years of Catholic teachings. Vatican II's Pastoral Council does not trump 2,000 years of Dogmatic Catholic teachings; it does not carry the theological weight. There has never in the history of the Church been so-called Pastoral Council. Look around, VII has failed and is failing, people are leaving, not joining. Tradition is growing, as Jesus promised His Church would not fail.

[chestertonrules]

You are arrogant and wrong, thank God.

The Catholic Church is thriving and there is a new enthusiastic wave of converts joining the one true Church.

You're no different than a Donatist.

[Oblationem]

Thriving? Better read-up.

Who is the heretic and apostate? Was it St. Athanasius, St. Basil the Great or St. Martin? Or was it the self-styled New Order Arian Vatican II that split-off from the Doctrine of the Church? When a Holy orthodox pope ascends the throne of Peter; the finger you point at me will have four fingers pointing back at you. It is not right that those who defend the Church against modernism be called Donatists. Perhaps one day you will be called an Arian?

[JKB449]

Praised Be Jesus Christ.

HI

I agree with you. We need the one True Catholic Church to go against Modernism.

[AnHonestChristian]

So, do you consider the Eastern Orthodox Church to be unsaved?

[Oblationem]

Just like the Protestants.

[AnHonestChristian]

If I may be equally-candid--but not cliche, as my evangelical brethren--I would like to refer you to Romans 10:9-13.

[Oblationem]

Romans, is that in the Old or New Testament?

Yeah, well Back then St. Paul was not speaking to formal heretics as Protestants today are. If you look around in the Bible that we wrote (its our Book) youll find the word anathema. Study-up on it

[AnHonestChristian]

You are free to form your own exegetical analysis. All I ask is that your prayer might be that the Holy Spirit will guide you in your study of Scripture. I personally accept, with God as my authority, that all who have faith in Christ are saved, whether Catholic or Protestant. May God bless you, my brother.

[Oblationem]

That is a lot of presumption on your part based on the beliefs of heretics. It amazes me how you can take that one Scripture quote, and miss-understand so much more of Scripture. That is not the 2,000-year-old Traditional Catholic understanding.

What does the word anathema mean in Scripture. Give me some examples of the word anathema in Scripture and how that does not include Protestants.

[AnHonestChristian]

I do not wish to argue with you, my brother. It is not a Traditional Catholic understanding? That does not cause me an unease--I am not in communion with the Bishop of Rome in any way other than that which is spiritual. It seems to me that to be of the Church (Eph. 2:20), you must have faith (Eph. 2:8-10), as stated previously. I fear that our arguing would only cause further division within the body of Christ, so I must decline. A Merry Christmas to you, my brothers.

[Oblationem]

Think of us more like cousins okay. Isa 40:11, John 10:16, John 17:20-21, Rom 16:17, Eph 4:3-6, 1Pet 2:25, Jesus Christ commanded that His Church must be ONE. It must be ONE in its founder, in its head, in its final aim, in its teaching, and in its government. There shall be ONE fold with ONE shepherd. Common sense tells us that GOD cannot be the author of various opposing systems of religion. GOD is the Author of Truth and Truth is ONE. 'ONE', is one of the Four Marks of Christ's Church.

[AnHonestChristian]

Not only this, but Christ is called the Head of the Church in Ephesians, purchased by His blood (Acts), to which membership is gained by believing in Christ as Our risen Lord (Rom. 10:9-10). The "successor of Peter" disagrees with you in any case, as he has since Vatican II. You are aware that the doctrine of "Feeyanism," I believe it's called--outside the Roman Church there is no salvation--has been declared heresy.

[Oblationem]

Not true

Outside the Church there is no salvation" is a Doctrine of the Catholic Faith that was taught By Jesus Christ to His Apostles, preached by the Fathers, defined by popes and councils and piously believed by the faithful in every age of the Church, (including today). But in reality a Vatican more interested in being politically correct disciplined Fr. Feeney for defending the Dogma of the Church. Now that you are an Honest Christian, you can rejoin the Church that Christ founded.

[KAMIKAZR]

I am a Catholic and have been to this Mass in the past. However, I am not "Traditional" enough to meet the Latin Mass's criteria: I am a Democrat, I have Protestant friends, and I was born and raised in the English Mass.

I am not good enough for this Mass.

[Oblationem]

Just because you were born and raised without being informed about the True Faith, doesn't mean that you have to stay ignorant. (I simply ask you to read), and you will discover that your true friends, brothers and sisters are assisting at the Traditional Catholic Latin Mass.

This Mass was good enough for all the canonized and Sainted Popes, not to mention all the martyrs.

[InfiniteMushroom]

The Catholic Church ought to allow and encourage older men who are seeking to become monks and priests. A younger man just doesn't carry the same weighty presence of authority as one with gray or white hair. We are fortunate to have an older priest at our Traditional Latin Mass Catholic Church and he radiates authority and piety. The priest in this video has valid things to say but his mannerisms just don't have that patriarchal presence that completes his authority.

[Oblationem]

Jesus was only 33 years old.

Fr. Cooper was ordained in 1987 by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.

[InfiniteMushroom]

True. I grew up seeing white hair and authority go hand in hand. It's just a personal bias of mine that in no way discredits Fr. Cooper.

[jc00213]

Latin mass is so beautiful. What exactly happaned in the Vatican II. Please Explain. Im really not familiar about it

[Oblationem]

What happened was, a diabolical disorientation, a plague on the Church. It is where the malicious intentions of the liberal enemies of the Church over-came good men temporarily. It is the first time in the history of the Church whereas a 'Pastoral Council' was held. All other Councils were 'Dogmatic Councils.' The evil continues today. Basically, those in power today are just spitting into the wind, they cannot win, and the battle continues...

[JaLingWang]

There were protestant masons on the pastorical council of Vatican 2, if I remember correctly.

A good book to read would be "The exorcism of Annaliese Michel" Its about a young German girl who was possessed by 6 demons, which have a message from lucifer. Take communion standing, take it by hand.

I encourage you to read this book. Enjoy your research on the traditine latin mass.

[MichaelWalder]

Yes, and it was the first Council to be called without there being a crisis in the church. It was said, "To hold a Council without there being a crisis in the Church, is to tempt God". How true. Look at them now...

[tletch]

It is obvious to see your Catholic only in name. I hope you will let the Lord heal you of your bitterness. Man you have a lot of it!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Oblationem]

"Am I then become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"

Galatians - Chapter 4, Verse 16.

[tletch]

Why am I a Charismatic Catholic????? Because I get to see people set free. I get to see the deaf hear, the blind see and the lame walk. When was the last time that happened in a Latin Mass?????

By the way, the Early Church was Charismatic for 200 years. How are we " Modernists"?

If you want to "humbly" judge yourselves better than everyone else--- Go for it!

[Oblationem]

#1

Go for it? Nah, I think we'll stick to what the Church has taught always and everywhere.

In the late 17th century, the beginnings of Charismaticism can already be seen as a derivative of the Protestant heresy. Philip Jakob Spener and his disciple, August Hermann Francke, from his vantage point at the new University of Halle, through over 6,000 graduates in Protestant theology, spread the ideas of Pietism throughout Germany.

[Oblationem]

#2

The Pietists specially emphasized emotional feeling rather than reason and cultivated "enthusiasm" in worship." They encouraged Herzensreligion, a religion of the heart founded on an "individual, personal experience" of Christ, much like the modern Protestant Evangelicals, who talk about a "personal experience of Christ," by which they refer to an over-emotionalized, highly personalized attitude that overrides true belief.

[Belezza23]

The Latin Mass is beautiful...Vatican 2 has made going to church seem like a circus...taking communion in your hands?...everyday ppl handing the communion out?...drums, guitars, and ppl clapping to the music?...shaking hands and giving a kiss on the cheek as a sign of peace?...how can that be normal nehavior in a church?? Vatican 2 has made a new religion..to bad millions of so-called roman catholics have not yet realized it...

[ukidding]

Why I am no longer a catholic.

There's is no proof for a supernatural.

Religion has caused many wars and conflict.

I am not interested in heaven or worship (a form of inequality)

The doctrine is illogical. e.g. There is one god. God the father, god the son, and god the holy ghost. But isn't 1 + 1+ 1 = 3. The pope's reply: The three are but one god and are called the holy trinity. When you suspend your judgment, you will swallow any thing.

[Oblationem]

Maybe you are no longer Catholic because you wimped-out! Thousands, millions have since Vatican II. Don't let the bastards steal your Faith from you.

St. Paul said we walk by 'Faith' not by sight. So, MAN-UP and go visit a Traditional Catholic Latin Mass.

It doesn't get any more real than, Christ allowing Himself to be crucified for you...

[AndyCheng]

You don't need proof for the supuernatural. It's a question of faith.

[Oblationem]

The above statement is from the book,

"The Suicide of Altering the Faith in the Liturgy" - Fr. Paul Kramer B,PH,, S,T,B, M, Div,, S,T,L,

Distributed by: St. Joseph's Books

2711 Elmwood Ave.

Kenmore, New York 14217

[Oblationem]

Archbishop Lefebvre really believed that he was acting out of necessity. If he was indeed correct in his belief that it was really necessary to consecrate the bishops, then he would not be subject to any penalty whatever (can. 1324.4). If he was in error and even if he was culpably in error in believing that it was necessary to consecrate bishops without a mandate from the Pope, then he still would not incur any automatic (latae sententice) penalty (can. 1324.3).

[lizliz1112]

Surely you'll listen to the pope himself on the matter:

"The Pope is the supreme legislator in the Church... he declared that Mons. Lefebvre and the priests Bernard Fellay, Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, Richard Williamson and Alfonso de Galarreta, have incurred the grave penalty of excommunication ...Those mentioned above who are still living and have not asked pardon from the Church for the ill which they have caused are still under the censure of excommunication."

[Oblationem]

The Pope is responsible for the word, 'subsists', among other heresies. For 2,000 yrs the Church of Christ 'was' the Catholic Church. Now with the VII document Lumen Gentium, the Church of Christ subsists in the Catholic Church. For 2,000 yrs there was no Salvation outside the Catholic Church, but now, salvation can be found in other religions? Saint Athanasius didn't listen to the Pope either. Simply, the Vatican today has lost credibility. A high percentage of the bishops are homosexuals.

[lizliz1112]

Also, it is absurd for you to call the Catholic Church "akin" to Mohammedanism. I truely hope you decide to come back to the fullness of the faith! You can still go to Traditional Latin Masses that are not apart of SSPX (and are in full union with the Church!).

[Oblationem]

Unfortunately, being in full union with the Church today doesn't mean being fully Catholic.

It's more important to follow God, rather than man.

It is the new Novus Ordo religion that does not have the fullness of the Catholic Faith, nor does it even act like it does. At the Novus Ordo Latin Mass Indult, one cannot receive all of the sacraments. Sadly, most all that's left are the buildings. It has even given away many of the powers and titles of the papacy. The list is legion.

[Oblationem]

Further more, Bp. Williamson put it in a clear and plain way, he said, "...Even if Rome half-converted and the SSPX half-betrayed, in order for the two parties to meet half-way, still there would be war to the death between Conciliarism and Catholicism. We are not talking about Rome or the SSPX being nice or nasty. We are talking about two different, and necessarily opposed, religions."

The Novus Ordo Church is simply not Catholic. Please read the Church documents before and after VII.

[lizliz1112]

These guys are in schism.

[Oblationem]

Part #1

There are myriad ways to answer that charge against the SSPX.

I'll try something I don't think has been tried before? (First, I don't speak for the SSPX).

The Novus Ordo is akin to Mohammedanism. Mohammedanism was a heresy. It began as a heresy, it was not a new religion, although it is now. It was a perversion of Christian doctrine. The Novus Ordo started out in heresy with its new sacraments, and Canon Laws to support the new religion, also akin to the great Arian heresy.

[Oblationem]

Part #2

So, take your pick, Mohammedanism, Arianism, or Novus Ordoism it is simply not Catholic. It is a perversion of Catholicism, and is a new religion. To prove this, all one has to do is read the Novus Ordo documents, see how their so-called mass (small m) is celebrated. Look at the Church before and after VII. So, the Novus Ordo's that are heretics, are calling the SSPX schismatic? Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black eh?

[woodyaan]

Yes, this is what Jesus Christ meant. We are Christian, we are the Catholics like this, or- we are against Christ.

What we have to do, Fathers, if we CAN NOT FIND a Christian priest who is working for his vocation and Christ? WhAT WE SHALL DO? Where is God? Is He abandoned us?