You don't even have a conscience as an embryo. You can't even feel anything. Its not alive yet. It is a womans choice. It is there as a choice, it isn't mandatory.
no - two wrongs don't make a right; rape is wrong, abortion is even worse; father/brother/neighbor should be put in jail, but baby is innocent --- you're giving the innocent party (the baby) a harsher sentence (death) than the guilty parties
@VoiceHunter There is a difference that you fail to understand between innocent life and life that has already lived. A murderer deserves capital punishment.
Since you've accepted the premise that the zygote is human life, you are now defending murderers. There's nothing civil or logical about that
@bj07bran7 Wrong. Abortion cannot be defined as "murder," because it would be unconstitutional. A fetus is not a US citizen, and so cannot receive and shouldn't deserve legal protection. And if abortion is murder, then in that case, you'd have to ban alcohol, coat hangers, herbs, drugs, and other abortion remedies... other "murderers." But you are not pro-life at all, you are anti-abortion or anti-choice, because you support capital punishment. You are a fascist.
@bj07bran7 You love big government, I know, but you just can't justify that without supporting, well, BIGGER government, which would grow like a never-ending tumor. Speaking of which, tumors have their own unique DNA and can be classified as a tumor. Doesn't mean we just "protect the sanctity of tumors." And you're the last one who should be accusing pro-choicers of being murderers after all the people your side has killed and bombed, you fucking terrorist.
Oh, and you're right about the nine-months part if she "chooses" to have the baby. No, there's no affect on the man's body. Only the 18 years of work that he performs with his body, that he has to perform to support the baby. You know, if she "chooses", since he has no option that doesn't involve killing anything.
Woman kills fetus: CHOICE.
Man walks away: DEADBEAT.
To consider a fetus analogous to a tumour is something of a mental sickness. Thanks for sharing.
@Hzqi Okay, yeah, I'm mentally ill. I know a thing or two about science that you did not, so I'm mentally ill. Buddy, turn off Fox News and do your own homework. Learn to think for yourself for once. You can't even argue abortion without sounding like a complete jackass. That's why no one here likes you. You've made it completely obvious that you hate women and think that government is the answer to all moral questions. That's just sick.
Trolls of your ilk, are so telegraphed, that even if I wasn't accustomed to straw-man drivel such as this, it's easy to get none of your putrid mud stuck on.
You've displayed no scientific premise that illuminates anything.
Are you very familiar with cancer cell dynamics? It's a moronic analogy.
@Hzqi Buddy, if you think I'm a troll, then you need to look up the definition of what a troll is. Or rather, you know what a troll is, but you call everyone that you don't agree with.
A tumor has its own unique DNA and metabolism. So it is, under definition, a human.
Feminism is no where near statism. Giving women equal rights, be it the right to vote, receive an abortion, or get fair pay, isn't statism at all. Get a dictionary... you could use one.
It's spectacularly bizarre that you'd level an assertion at me, about wanting the nanny state to overlord the aspects of daily life, while aligning yoruself with the feminist stance, of whom, run crying to Daddy Big Gov to solve every problem under their own myopic glare.
There's so many ways to illustrate the stupidity of every statement you make, that I'll keep it to just a few. You consider cells with DNA damage provoking a mutated allele and no off switch, analogous to a growing human.
"Hate women?" And you're likening ME to FOX News? Wow! Bypassing every individual point, for some feeble character pot-shots. Pure class. Hmmm, evidenced by what? The watertight case made about FAIR legislation practice? Or evidenced by the throng of women who agree with me, and back me up?
Minus the hyperbole I wouldn't think you're deranged, but your outlook on life is rather disturbed and callous. Actually, fuck this. Waxing a troll who addresses nothing you say? What am I thinking?
@Hzqi I'm addressing everything you say. I think you're a sick individual who looks at government as the answer to all moral issues... like the corrupt fellas in D.C. should be deciding what a woman does with her body. You address shit... that's why no one here likes you. Feminism is equality, because it's giving to those who were once oppressed, so as to level the playing field.
@bj07bran7 : I did not see any videos condemning wars, military killings, capital punishment. Unless you are God, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. While an accused murderer may be a sinner, it is not our place as humans, and therefore sinners ourselves and imperfect, to judge others as fit for death. It was not Bush's, or any of the joint chief's place to judge Iraqis as deserving of death and torture. I am pro-life. You are anti-abortion.
I'll tell you one of my own responses to the "not a baby" arguement, too. I often have people throw the chestnut at me "don't be an idiot" (being protective of an innocent life is idiocy, don't cha know) it's not a baby. Instead of debating the "eventuallity" aspect, I take the stages approach: Yes, you're right. It's a foetus, the SECOND stage of human GROWTH. Even FETUS isn't the first. You have a HUMAN in their earliest and most vulnerable stages. This is WHAT IT IS.
abortion=murder. usually stupid teens say abortion is fine, i can fuck whatever and whenever and just kill the baby tha never evin got a chance at life.
I'm not going to say that killing a human being is ethically right by my standards, but I feel like the solution needs to involve more freedom to choose, not less. Educated women who can provide for themselves and understand sexual reproduction have less chance of being caught in a crisis situation.
Prohibitions drive vice industries underground where the crimes compound.
BTW, the death penalty totally contradicts everything else you said in the video. Be consistent, mr. logic.
If might makes right, fine, but otherwise it isn't anyone's place to make moral judgments on anyone but themselves.
If you really want to save the lives of what we both agree are human beings, then you need to consider adopting. You might also consider subsidizing pregnancy and paying for mother's to take time off like they do in Canada. Accurate sex education is also a good idea.
Neither one of us like abortion, we agree that it is immoral, but you need to offer an alternative.
I don't know if this is of any interest to you, but I am neither religious or a believer in god. And I find no rational absolvance of Abortion. My favourite statement on the subject is the classic, basic: Everyone who ever supported slavery was free. Everyone who ever supported abortion, was born. That's how oppression works... We always hear this word "rights" thrown" around, however, I'd like to hear from the aborted. What might they have to say?
If someone commits a crime against a woman and the developing child dies, it's considered double homicide. If a woman voluntarily kills the baby, it's business as usual. Double standard, anyone?
You are the most hateful person I have ever seen on YouTube, and that's saying a lot.
Not only are you anti-woman and want to bring big government to the United States, but you believe abortion should be punishable by DEATH? Are you crazy? Are you that much of a hypocrite? Rot in hell. The fact that you would say that is about as worse as all of Gerard Paul's videos combined.
I simply believe women should be trusted with their decisions, and that there should not be government interference. Abortion will happen whether you like it or not, either in a dirty old alley or a clinic, and the government won't be able to do anything to stop it. I could never understand why you won't let women live their own lives.
It's not about womens rights. Its not about controling women. I can give less than a shit about what women do in their private lives. If they want to get drunk and be slutty every weekend, so be it.
But we are talking human life here. The fact that the life is inside her does not make it her choice on whether or not it should live.
Do parents OWN their children? Or are they responsible for taking care of that child they conceived together?
If we establish that the zygote inside the woman's stomach is human life that will grow into a full human if allowed to naturally, why should murder of it be allowed
Do you want to euthanize every brain dead patient? Every poor person who has no way of supporting themselves?
Your logic fails. Stop worshiping women and wake up you hippe freak. Go take your meth and sit in a circle with a fucking guitar . junkie
How many abortions occur because of the mothers health compared to the mother's selfishness
If the physical survival of the mother is threatened, that is another story. I am talking about MOST abortions, which are preformed out of selfishness.
If we outlaw SELFISH abortions then the clinics can be destroyed, because thats what most abortions are. They could be done in hospitals under doctor supervision
"Trusted with decisions" eh? So, does that mean you believe men should be "trusted with decisions" when it comes to supporting children they have no proper relationship with?
Standing by for double standard*
By "Live their own LIVES" I presume you're referring to, the living. You know, like the thing that's being poisoned and or dismembered and extracted, right? And these men that would like to raise an unwanted child, gosh, just living their own lives.
@Hzqi You're commenting on something I said ten months ago. Nice.
Of course, all sympathy goes to the man, as usual. Because men don't have to endure nine months, plus a lifetime of physical changes, they should not have any control over the fate of a fetus. I don't see why that's difficult to comprehend. Also, dumbass, I am a male. Go fuck yourself.
It doesn't matter when it was said. Unless you've changed your position, you said it, and I've stumbled across it. This pertains how exactly, to dumbassery?
All sympathy to man? As per usual? Which planet is this again? Being a male doesn't make you any less wrong. By the way. A child raised by wolves isn't a citizen either. Does that child have any civil rights? How exactly, do you figure that criminalizing an actually, conflates to the means by which it can be conducted? Wrong again.
You're right. Men don't have to endure nine-months. And neither does a women if she chooses to have an abortion. But that's not the issue here. The issue is about the power structure surrounding whether she "WILL" choose to endure nine months. See, I'm not an advocate of abortion, because I think BOTH parents should take responsibility for a pregnancy. The double-standard is when a woman is entitled to kill a fetus to relieve her onus. A man can't even WALK AWAY to relieve his.
@Hzqi The reason why we have child support is so that the woman wouldn't have to raise a child without financial aide. It's a pretty common issue, especially for the poorer parts of the US. And if you're that pissed about a guy paying child support, then maybe abortion really should be a legal option. Hell, I know some guys love forcing their girlfriends into keeping or aborting the baby. Either way, it's a disgusting and immoral thing to do.
PS, making the associated presumption as a MOTIVE for opposition, is really the most piss-weak form of retort that exists. It's as bad as a Christian saying "Why do you HATE god" just because they're an Atheist. Oh, it could possibly be the product of their own powers of deduction, and their principles of fairness. See, the problem with me is, when Feminists ranted "equality", I took them seriously. It's odd when a group of idealogues get angry for taking them at their word.
You know "guys" that "love" forcing girlfriends to keep or abort? Even without the pluralising that's one of the most unlikely scenarios I've ever heard. Firstly, he CAN'T force her to abort OR keep. She has all legal power. And to me, aborting a child (that is wanted by the Father), is an immoral thing to do. The legallity is a different matter. But since you went there, consider this. Women has abortion, it's, well, an abortion. Man causes fetus' death = Murder (some states).
@Hzqi True, a man has no legal authority over what a woman does with her fetus. However, men who use guilt or threats to force a decision ought to be ashamed of themselves, because they don't have to carry that fetus for nine months.
You are a hypocrite. First you are against child support (this has nothing to do with abortion, btw), then you are for it provided abortion is made illegal.
No, there's no hypocrisy in it, because you simply do. not. understand. the point that is being made. It's a lateral point, not a linear point. If you confer it axiomatically, it will escape you. They are opposed postulations of what constitutes power. And I very clearly expressed my own preference after illustrating that only one of two options is universally fair towards men AND women. One of those two, are unfair to the fetus. Or try reading it again. I'm not typing it again.
One way to help a person udnerstand the double-standard their head doesn't fit around, is to illustrate the reverse or "anti-woman" scenario. For women to be empowered to abort, but empowered to enforce Child-support is a double-standard against men. Against women, it would be: If she was denied the right to an abortion AND denied the right to enforce child support. The balance is one of two options in the middle. Abort without CS. No abort WITH CS. I vote latter.
@Hzqi i If the man does not pay child support, then the child and mother may both suffer without financial aid- I'm sorry, I thought you were "for the baby." My mistake. And besides, the woman doesn't always end up having custody of the child. The father may end up with it with the woman having to provide financial aid. Huh. Child support don't sound so bad anymore, does it?"
I don't have time to dedicate to the distraction of addressing everyone of your points. I will make the point however, that you seem to be either disingeuous of missing the point, when you tar me with what are straw-man notions. "For the baby"? Yeah, I am. Many of my posts however, are using lateral and hypothetical reasoning to highlight the contradictions and double-think that are evident in feminist endorsement, all over the place.
@Hzqi Nope. Sorry, Mr. Strawman. You're using stuff like child support to oppose abortion. Everything you're doing is just to push for what the boyfriend or husband would want. Stop equating child support with abortion... they are two very different things. Nothing you say is "fair" to the woman, because you believe she should be forced to have the child- or just dump it in adoption care, because that's the answer to everything, of course!
"Anti-woman" is one of the most idiotically applied remarks hurled around the liberal-media echo-chamber. Just like the old "my body, my choice". Which, hey, is a true statement. However, people that like to deny men ANY rights (as you probably, predictably do), seem to forget what it is that men break for the 18 years they WORK to provide for children they've either been cuckolded into supporting, or denied access to. His WALLET, His BODY, His CHOICE. No? No sale?
@VoiceHunter I think what he's saying is that it's a form of murder and that if capital punishment is implemented then it would be hypocritical to not do the same to those who abort.
@TheHumpadump So that's what we want to do now? KILL innocent women and doctors for a medical procedure? That's where this country's values are? That's completely disgusting and unacceptable. We shouldn't have capital punishment in this country at all, and it just goes to show how hypocritical these anti-choicers are when they rally for it.
@VoiceHunter I'm merely explaining his point. Chill. What he's saying is that those women and doctors are not innocent. In your opinion they are 'disgusting', but then you must agree that capital punishment must be also since what you are saying would be hypocritical. This isn't actually my opinion at all; I disagree completely with capital punishment. However I understand that if you agree with capital punishment for murder then you'd have to agree to the death of mothers for choosing abortion.
@TheHumpadump My apologies, I must have misunderstood. I'm pro-choice and I oppose the death penalty in all cases because of my principles. I suppose that it would be consistent (though still very immoral) for anti-choicers to support killing women and doctors for performing abortions, if they truly believe that abortions are murder. Even still, they would be hypocrites for supporting the murder of adult human beings while claiming that they stand for life.
@VoiceHunter That is true; it would be hypocritical. I am pro-choice also, even though I feel abortion is deeply wrong. You can't force someone to not abort; it's their choice as they're their own moral agent.
I think you are speaking out of your hatred for women more than your own beliefs. Perhaps your belief that women are selfish and worth nothing but sex has led you to think it's okay to kill them if they get an abortion for whatever reason. I think that it is up to women, who are to fall pregnant and raise a child as to whether or not they want to do that. I don't particularly agree with abortion that is very late though.. it seems then the woman has probably been careless.
What hatred for women? Theres nothing in this video that states I hate women. It's a well thought out, logical argument that shows how arrogant pro-choice women are.
I simply believe that the zygote is human life. It has it's own unique genetic code from the moment of conception.
And I obviously refuted the rape argument.
And ye, I believe in capital punishment. When you murder someone, you lose rights. We as a society must decide if you are a danger to everyone and if you should live
There is a difference that you missing here. Innocent life and guilty life. An unborn child should not be put to death because it has done nothing wrong.
Guilt murderers should be allowed to be taken out of society, for the safety of everyone and so that their genes do not get passed on to further generations.
Right. Well that's your opinion isn't it. We as a society obviously don't share your views or abortion wouldn't be legal anywhere. Why should people be murdered for your minority opinion?
Well I hate to break it to you but this debate actually exists outside America... Unless what you're saying there is that you don't care what happens outside your own country.
Again, laws during the slave trade (I think you were referencing?) isn't really the issue here. You could pick any number of past laws that perhaps should not have been in place in any country, you could try and pick out lots of historical controversies why not WW2?
I'm a nationalist, I care little about other nations. Some nations don't allow women to walk outside without head-wraps. Some nations stone homosexuals to death. Some nations don't allow protest. Some nations allow their people to live in poverty for their entire lives.
I am worried about my country, a free country.
I could pick any law that is unjust and compare it to what people say about abortion laws. Just because it is law does not make it right
Yeah I guessed. Always find it interesting, how so many consider themselves to be nationalist in a country that is not even 300 years old...
A 'free' country, where people with lives and opinions should be murdered instead of having a choice?
Just because you think something is unjust, doesn't make it so. American will make their own decisions, and are capable of making the good ones- as I think can be seen with the recent election of a president who's has different views to yours on abortion.
At least you have the decency to admit you believe we're the only country on earth.
If you truly love this country, you should probably get out. Your twisted belief system is going to soon trigger another civil war. Anyone with eyes can see that.
You obviously don't know the difference between a nationalist and a patriot. In fact, I always thought you anti-choicers were the people who are against America, not me.
If women can choose to get an abortion or not, then the father should be able to have a say if the child dies or not, but that's not the case. Women want all the power they can get.
Very good point. There would be no infant without the male's sperm. Therefore he helped create the zygote and he should have a say in what happens to it.
That is yet another way women are selfish and power hungry
The man can have a child any time he wants and not have to deal with the nine months of struggle and changes. You obviously don't know what pregnancy feels like.
No wonder you're against abortion. You want to multiply to no end so as to spread your idiocy around the country. Your parents did it, and now so will you.
Wow ok. First of all, I don't meet women for sex, second of all, just no. I want kids with someone else who also has good genes, but thanks for your concern.
I got a question. What is rape occurs? Should she keep the baby? She won't recieve help from the father. She won't get anything. It'll just make the baby's life worse. Just like killing someone who's situation will not get any better. I think there are circumstances where abortion is wrong and when they are right.
She should keep the baby. There can be a government program set up specifically to help mothers raising children who were raped.
The only situation where abortion is permissible is when the physical survival of the mother is threatened. This should be determined by 3 medical doctors
If the baby is such a "human life" as you say, then remove it from the woman's body entirely, and let it survive on it's own. - Oh wait, it can't. Meaning that it needs that life support from the woman to survive. Youre saying that woman should be forced to provie that life support. Which is mosogynistic, domination of women.
No, this is a trap you are trying to set. You want to call anyone who is against abortion "misogynistic".
This is what I mean when I say people like you hide behind women's rights.
And what makes you think human life can automatically survive by itself.
Let me ask you, where you able to support yourself at the time you came out of your mother or did you need her to take care of you until you could? Thats a foolish argument
And my mother was not FORCED to take care of me when I came out of the womb. It's your arguments thats the bullshit ones. You would be forcing women to use their bodies as baby life support systems. When its not yours, or the state's choice to make.
You are dominating a woman's body you misogynistic bastard.
Not even an infant can survive without being supported by a parent. Is infanticide acceptable, too? Is it wrong when women dump babies in trashcans? They will surely die without intervention.
Are you playing dumb or something? An infant can be cared for by somebody else. No one else can care for the unborn babu until it reaches a certain stage. You can't force someone to care for another because it's a violation of that persons "Right to Privacy" as detailed in the Human Rights Act. The. End.
This one also, I'm not going to be drawn into a long winded discourse on it. Just don't have the time. There's one query I'm curious about though. What is your distinction on the abortion timeline? Is it a solid line? Is it vague? Is it early? Late? You say that gestation constitutes "care" (that's semantic), so what about a baby past 40 weeks? Is this still a privacy violating care? Acceptable abortion? Just curious.
Consider your position on caring, I'm also curious about how your views pertain to "child neglect". What's the cut off point of this "force to care". Is the onus to seek another carer? Or hell, is it acceptable to dump a newborn in a dumpster somewhere. Lines are funny things. Just wondering where you draw them.
I'm also not sure which region you're referring to, but the "Human Rights Act" that was passed in Australia is not constitutionally legal (but then fuck all of what parliament or state does actually is) for reasons which are subtle to understand, but are clear. If you're in Australia, do you remember being called for a referendum on the act? No, BREACH. But when pollies are funding Chaplains and Medicating the Population without consent (flouride), HEY! Constitution?
I'll bet you're the kind that is quick to remind men of their responsibilities IF she should CHOOSE to have a child. So, where's your equivilent reminder for women. You know, if you are the kind that takes delight in labelling men as "deadbeats".
By the way. "Life support"? Theoretically, someone else could provide child support. Do you believe they should be forced to?. This is misandrist domination of men, right? Or should they just "man up".
@Hzqi It;s against the US constitution as well in a court of law. Ruled as being a violation to the Human Right to Privacy.
No one can provide life support but the mother prior to a certain point. Babies that are too young cannot survive on the outside even with life support.
You can't force a woman to bear a child. If you can do that, then she can force you to donate your blood to save a life. Yes it'll save lives, but you'll be violating each other's right to privacy.
Now, as much as I appreciate your propensity to fulminations without actually comprehending what someone is illustrating, try to get it right. I never COMPLAINED (O EM GEE! THA UNFAIRZORZ!), no, I politely pointed out a blatant social and legal double-standard.
If the women want to "HOLD MEN" to the fincial responsibilities, and being "deadbeats", then they ought to be held to their own responsibilities. But no, they, like you, will crow for the cake, and the eating. More power plz
That man isn't forced to provide life support though. The doctor and the nurse and the hospital technican can all QUIT their jobs. They don't have to do anything.
If a mother wants to quit, you want to throw the fucking book at her. Which is misogyny because if she doesn't want to use her body in a certain way that 's it. No arguments to be had. It's her choice, like it's your choice if you want to enter a career that saves lives.
If a mother wants to quit? Somewhere within 9 months? You must have missed the part about what child support is, and how it works. Quit? Neglect? What was your term again, yes, THROW THE BOOK at him. They are perfectly analogous. The same people who castigate men as deadbeats for expecting ANY kind of option pertaining to their own rights, are the ones who call it "misogyny" if you observe what is in fact, a double standard. Yes, in FACT. Inescapable, empirical double-standard.
What, you're whining about having to pay child support now? What the fuck does that have to do with abortion? If everyone was pro life, men AND WOMEN would still need to pay child support. It's whichever parent doesn't have custody that has to pay, not just men full stop.
So exactly what the fuck is your point? Men getting raked over child support is a diifferent issue entirely.
And the adoption system is overcrowded. They wouldn't want the extra from a pro life regime.
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Let me see if I can p-l-o-d through this in a manner your acorn can wrap itself around. Firstly, the manner of child-support is a different subject, but there is an analogous conjunction as it pertains to the enforcement of responsibility. At the moment of conception there is a baby pending, saved the matter of abortion. This puts the female wholly in the drivers seat. If she decides for whatever reason, she doesn't want to have the baby, she can "opt out" of responsibility.
And considering the social options available to her, AFTER the hypothetical birth, even then, she can "opt out" (adoption for example). At no time, after the event of a conception, can a man "opt out" of anything. If she choose to abort, then he's on the sidelines to observe the elimination of a child, that he may well have wanted. Ok, let's postulate she has this right. While she can eliminate the life, he can't even eliminate her right to his wallet. He can't abort, or adopt it.
There are only two conceivable options, that are universally fair so fair as only the parents are concerned. If she has the right to an abortion, that's her ground zero power to withdraw responsibility. She should not be empowered to demand child-support as well. If it's an onus upon the man in the event of the child, to pay mandatory child support, she shouldn't be empowered with a mere whim of denial. It is ALL POWER on ONE SIDE. This is not equality.
And it's the mere tip of the ice-berg of the erosion at the core of society from the family nucleus. If women weren't so empowered to abused prejudiced Domestic Laws, along with all the other family provisions, a whole different mentallity towards social outcomes would evolved. The structure that exists, actively nurtures misguided state dependents.
Men are no longer encouraged as the essential component of the child's life. They're there to shovel coal and keep the world turning.
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Pro-abortion / Pro-mandatory child-support, is an immaculate double-standard.
Woman escapes a fixed 9 months of responsibility by ending a life: LIBERATED!
Man escapes a fixed 18 years of responsibility by walking away: DEADBEAT!
It's funny, a woman can even put the baby up for adoption and never hear about it again. Does that mean, well, he can have his responsibility... Adopted?
PS: You're correct. If abortion was not arbitrarily legal, everyone would STILL be expected to pay child support. I like this model, better than the other one. I believe in men being responsible for their actions. Too bad so much of society doesn't expect the same of women. The believe in empowerment for women. They go awfully hush about the other word.
If you cant understand how having a rapists baby would ruin a womans life then you are completely beyond all reach.
Even for non rape victims -
What do you think being forced to carry and bear an unwanted child is going to do to the woman's mental state? You think shes suddenly going to be blissfully happy once the child comes out? Are you that deluded?
The adoption system is overburdened as it is. And murder my ass. Its less "murder" than killing an animal for meat is. At least the animal has a consciousness, the fetus does not. Its not even putting it out of its misery, it cant feel misery. It can't miss what it never had so it's not cruel to kill it in the early stages. And bullshit are there ways to get around abortion. The only way is illegal abortion, which is dangerous. Again, you are never going to force a woman to carry for 9 months.
And force her to bear the child. Many will find a way to kill it by, non legal, medical or non medical means. Its impossible to police it and actually policing it comes close to a totalitarian police state. Which would be a disaster.
It's impossible to prevent it but it is possible to hold the murderers responsible.
And after a few generations of holding human life in a higher value, this will die down. Eventually people would see that children are not a burden if they stop being so selfish and self-indulgent
By your fucked up logic, its better to have lived starving and in agony in the worst parts of Africa than to have never known life. It's absurd, and sick.
The irony here is that you accuse others of being arrogant when you epitomize that yourself.
Suggesting that this 2 minute video with crappy animation and a terrible computerized voice will "put an end to the debate" is one of the funniest things I've ever seen.
"Punishable by death"? You say that after all this you spout about "respecting life" and not deciding for another living being?
You are the arrogant one, and quite the hypocrite. You're the one who seems to be hiding behind an agenda with your inaccurate portrayal of the issue. Pro-Choice isn't about KILLING CHILDREN, it's about a woman being able to control her own body and not risk her own life by terminating the growth of a bunch of non-specialized cells.
There is a difference between innocent life and guilty life. There are legitimate reason to support capital punishment. If a person is a murderer, we as a people must decide whther or not they are fit to continue on in our society. We must do what is best for our safety.
An unborn child has committed no crime. An unborn child hasn't been given the chance at life and is therefore completely innocent.
"To decide for someone else what constitutes an acceptable quality of life is also an exercise in unparalleled arrogance..."
Your own quote.^ Who are you to say that a murderer is a "guilty life", and what sentiments are you basing that on? Are you basing that on your own opinion of how that person should act? Yeah, that's arrogance, and in this case that's hypocrisy.
I am basing that on what my opinion is of a guilt person, as well as the vast majority of humans in our society as well as around the globe. Mostly everyone agrees that a murderer is a "guilty life" and as I said before, as a society we come together and decide whether that person is fit to live among us.
My definition of "guilty life" is very concrete and is in line with what other humans feel about it as well.
Are we all arrogant because we deem a murderer "guilty"?
That's assuming she didn't put it up for adoption. That is also assuming she didn't do the sure thing, which would be to leave the baby on the front door of a church or police station. There are laws in place for that.
Also, there really is no excuse for unwanted pregnancy. Birth control and condoms are on every other commercial on tv. So it would not be unfair to outlaw abortion; the people have been given adequate tools to prevent the pregnancy.
Yes, it is her body. However, there is human life within her body. The human life inside her may very well be in her body, but she does not own it. It is an individual. Fetus's have their own genes, their own DNA, their own genetic makeup.
It IS about killing children, and "women's rights" is what pro-choicer's hide behind to justify murder.
And I already addressed the argument of rape in the video. Listen
It is not an individual as it has no sentience. Do you whine like this when you buy meat from slaughtered animals? No? Hypocrite. Do you give blood and organs in the cause to be pro life? No? Double Hypocrite. Forcing women to have babies would be a total disaster. It's abuse. But they're "evil, conniving" demons according to you, so I doubt you'll care much huh.
Im not making the claim to be pro life am I durr. You are.
A zygote does not equal a human. By your logic wasting eggs and sperm is a high crime. Absurd. A zygote cannot think beyond instincts - and is mentally no different from it's animal equivalents. Its simply not the states place to force these wome to have these unwanted babies. Unless its suddenly a totalitarian dictatorship, which is the most unamerican thing ever.
You simply misunderstand what a zygote is. A zygote is not sperm or an egg. A zygote results from the fertilization event between the 2. That is conception. That is when pregnancy begins. That is human life.
And sure, mentally the zygote is incapable of anything. However, does this make it less human? No, because it is in the process of developing that mental capacity.
So according to YOUR logic, all mentally handicapped individuals should be euthanized. If thats your position, well....
Potential doesnt mean anything. Its not cruel to kill it based on potential. It doesnt feel pain and its putting it down quick. What IS cruel to her and the baby is forcing the woman to have an unwanted, hated baby which she will end up hurting or overburdening the adoption and Foster system. The child will have a totally shit life, and the mother will have gone through downright abuse by your "law". Its sick.
And it IS an individual. It has its own unique genetic code. It has DNA. To end life at any point in someone's life is murder.
We as humans are always growing. I am not the same person I was 4 years ago. We all go threw different stages. The zygote is still human life.
So it isn't "potential", it already is human life. Your logic says that I should be killed because the person I am today will no longer exist years from now because as a human I am always changing
A bunch of DNA does not make a human. It is not cruel to destroy a bunch of non sentient DNA. It can;t think or feel pain or do anything that would make it human. Its humane killing of something that would be unwanted and have a shit life if they were allowed to live. That isnt even the issue. The real issue is that you physically can't force a woman to give birth if they don't want to. No arguments.
Ever hear of back street abortions? No? Well learn.
What do you mean a bunch of DNA. It is more than that. It is a human zygote that has it's own unique genteic coding. It is an individual because if the natural process is allowed, it will expand and grow into a fetus, and so on. That is not "potential". That is an absolute.
I can't physically force a woman to give birth but a doctor is allowed to physically vacuum out a fetus?
It is potential because it hasnt happened yet. The zygote has not grown into a human being yet. So killing it is not cruelty. It's cruelty to force the mother to carry it for 9 months, birth it - risking her own life in the process - for a child that nobody wants.
The doctor vacuuming out the fetus is doing so under the woman's permission. You would be making her carry and bear it against her will. Its invasive and an infringement upon her human rights. early Zygotes do not have human rights.
Well this is where we disagree and will always disagree. And the law agrees with me, so you can spout your evangelical christian shit on abortion till you're blue in the face, the law will never change.
The zygote legally does not have human rights until it has reached a certain stage of development.
Making a woman, especially a raped woman, bear a child against her will would ruin her entire life. And it would be ruining the life of the child. So worse how?
First of all, throughout all of this, I have never mentioned religion not even once.
Second of all, I addressed the rape issue in the video. I guess your ears are clogged.
To argue that abortion should be allowed in the case of rape makes no sense. You are dehumanizing life. You are saying that the fact that a father is bad, the child is less human.
By that logic, millions of kids should be murdered because they have bad fathers. Thats your logic
"Second of all, I addressed the rape issue in the video. I guess your ears are clogged."
And I disagree with every single word of the mental retardation you spouted in the video. Especially about rape. Because you;re a misogynist and view women as just here to make babies anyway, than forcing a woman to have a baby and endanger her health even after she was raped means nothing to you because you have no empathy. Ruining the mother and child's lives for your pro life crap.
I never said women were only good for making babies.....you made that up.
I never said anything mysogynistic....you made that up.
My argument is not to control women or their bodies. My argument is that what is inside them is a individual person and therefore terminating their life is murder.
And I'm not talking about mother's health. If the physical survival of the mother is threatened, then abortion should be allowed only in that case. But it is to be signed off by 4 doctors
- XD Never said anything misogynistic? Try "All women are evil conniving and manipulative". owned.
No my point is that forcing a rape victim to have the baby is utterly ruining her life so that another may have a shitty unwanted childhood and life. How considerate of you huh.
Also which part of if it was made illegal than women will just get it illegally don't you get? You would be inviting criminals and scumbags to take advantage of women who you would have made desperate.
No, not owned. In that context I was talking about the women who are like that. Many of them are. its fact not misogyny
No, making it illegal would not create the black market you speak of. We could eliminate all the clinics. The vast majority of abortions would stop. In the case of the women's health, that operation could be performed in the hospital by real doctors, not demonic abortion doctors.
And how is having a baby necessarily going to ruin a woman's life? A child is precious
"No, making it illegal would not create the black market you speak of. We could eliminate all the clinics"
If theres money to be made in it then there would be the black market. You could get rid of the clinics, it would make zero difference. The criminals would even do the abortion by non medical means if they have to. Some women would try to remove or kill the baby by unmedical means. For safety, we need abortion, You cannot force people into pregnancy, They will always find a way.
And don't bother using the law in your argument. It is against the law to speak your mind in some countries. It was once against the law for certain people to marry.
So the law is completely arbitrary in this context. It neither helps or hinders what your saying
No arguement against your video message but, I like to put it this way, Abortion is convenient birth control for irresponsible women who decide that carrying, giving brith and raising a child is inconvenient for their lifestyle.
I respect human life over anything else. Served in combat & didn't like the waste of human life on both sides. My point was women think of abortion as birth control, I thiink of abortion as murder. Only have 500 chars so I can't spill it out to people who can't read between the lines in a forum like this. Sorry you misunderstood. hope this comment clears things up.
You don't even have a conscience as an embryo. You can't even feel anything. Its not alive yet. It is a womans choice. It is there as a choice, it isn't mandatory.
Slashloo 7 months ago
no - two wrongs don't make a right; rape is wrong, abortion is even worse; father/brother/neighbor should be put in jail, but baby is innocent --- you're giving the innocent party (the baby) a harsher sentence (death) than the guilty parties
itubeyoublah 1 year ago
@6676plentybody now your just spamming
bj07bran7 1 year ago
@6676plentybody I lol'd.
But yea bro either debate the issue or leave. This isn't a clan conference its a Youtube forum. I didn't make the video for these comments
bj07bran7 1 year ago
Oh yeah, I'm so pro-life! I'm so pro-life, I believe we should kill anyone who gets an abortion! That's how dedicated to preserving life I am!
VoiceHunter 1 year ago
@VoiceHunter There is a difference that you fail to understand between innocent life and life that has already lived. A murderer deserves capital punishment.
Since you've accepted the premise that the zygote is human life, you are now defending murderers. There's nothing civil or logical about that
bj07bran7 1 year ago
@bj07bran7 Wrong. Abortion cannot be defined as "murder," because it would be unconstitutional. A fetus is not a US citizen, and so cannot receive and shouldn't deserve legal protection. And if abortion is murder, then in that case, you'd have to ban alcohol, coat hangers, herbs, drugs, and other abortion remedies... other "murderers." But you are not pro-life at all, you are anti-abortion or anti-choice, because you support capital punishment. You are a fascist.
VoiceHunter 1 year ago
@bj07bran7 You love big government, I know, but you just can't justify that without supporting, well, BIGGER government, which would grow like a never-ending tumor. Speaking of which, tumors have their own unique DNA and can be classified as a tumor. Doesn't mean we just "protect the sanctity of tumors." And you're the last one who should be accusing pro-choicers of being murderers after all the people your side has killed and bombed, you fucking terrorist.
VoiceHunter 1 year ago
Oh, and you're right about the nine-months part if she "chooses" to have the baby. No, there's no affect on the man's body. Only the 18 years of work that he performs with his body, that he has to perform to support the baby. You know, if she "chooses", since he has no option that doesn't involve killing anything.
Woman kills fetus: CHOICE.
Man walks away: DEADBEAT.
To consider a fetus analogous to a tumour is something of a mental sickness. Thanks for sharing.
Hzqi 1 year ago
@Hzqi Okay, yeah, I'm mentally ill. I know a thing or two about science that you did not, so I'm mentally ill. Buddy, turn off Fox News and do your own homework. Learn to think for yourself for once. You can't even argue abortion without sounding like a complete jackass. That's why no one here likes you. You've made it completely obvious that you hate women and think that government is the answer to all moral questions. That's just sick.
VoiceHunter 1 year ago
Trolls of your ilk, are so telegraphed, that even if I wasn't accustomed to straw-man drivel such as this, it's easy to get none of your putrid mud stuck on.
You've displayed no scientific premise that illuminates anything.
Are you very familiar with cancer cell dynamics? It's a moronic analogy.
"Obvious you hate women"
random unsubstantiated statement.
[informed by Fox news]
more bullshit.
"Think for yourself"
More idiotic unsubstantiated filibustering.
Statism? Er, that's Feminism.
Hzqi 1 year ago
@Hzqi Buddy, if you think I'm a troll, then you need to look up the definition of what a troll is. Or rather, you know what a troll is, but you call everyone that you don't agree with.
A tumor has its own unique DNA and metabolism. So it is, under definition, a human.
Feminism is no where near statism. Giving women equal rights, be it the right to vote, receive an abortion, or get fair pay, isn't statism at all. Get a dictionary... you could use one.
VoiceHunter 1 year ago
It's spectacularly bizarre that you'd level an assertion at me, about wanting the nanny state to overlord the aspects of daily life, while aligning yoruself with the feminist stance, of whom, run crying to Daddy Big Gov to solve every problem under their own myopic glare.
There's so many ways to illustrate the stupidity of every statement you make, that I'll keep it to just a few. You consider cells with DNA damage provoking a mutated allele and no off switch, analogous to a growing human.
Hzqi 1 year ago
"Hate women?" And you're likening ME to FOX News? Wow! Bypassing every individual point, for some feeble character pot-shots. Pure class. Hmmm, evidenced by what? The watertight case made about FAIR legislation practice? Or evidenced by the throng of women who agree with me, and back me up?
Minus the hyperbole I wouldn't think you're deranged, but your outlook on life is rather disturbed and callous. Actually, fuck this. Waxing a troll who addresses nothing you say? What am I thinking?
Hzqi 1 year ago
@Hzqi I'm addressing everything you say. I think you're a sick individual who looks at government as the answer to all moral issues... like the corrupt fellas in D.C. should be deciding what a woman does with her body. You address shit... that's why no one here likes you. Feminism is equality, because it's giving to those who were once oppressed, so as to level the playing field.
VoiceHunter 1 year ago
Comment removed
VoiceHunter 1 year ago
@bj07bran7 : I did not see any videos condemning wars, military killings, capital punishment. Unless you are God, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. While an accused murderer may be a sinner, it is not our place as humans, and therefore sinners ourselves and imperfect, to judge others as fit for death. It was not Bush's, or any of the joint chief's place to judge Iraqis as deserving of death and torture. I am pro-life. You are anti-abortion.
dhead64 10 months ago
@VoiceHunter So if a girl gets raped by her father, her own brother, her neighbour she has not right to destroy the unborn
SuperDelta456 1 year ago
Now this is a good video. And I agree with all of it. Could've used science & law but, then pro aborts don't care about the truth.
Check my channel if you want to know why abortion is in fact ILLEGAL in the US. It's in my about me section IIRC.
ThomasJS1 2 years ago
Thanks. I'll be sure to check out your channel as well
bj07bran7 2 years ago
@bj07bran7
I'll tell you one of my own responses to the "not a baby" arguement, too. I often have people throw the chestnut at me "don't be an idiot" (being protective of an innocent life is idiocy, don't cha know) it's not a baby. Instead of debating the "eventuallity" aspect, I take the stages approach: Yes, you're right. It's a foetus, the SECOND stage of human GROWTH. Even FETUS isn't the first. You have a HUMAN in their earliest and most vulnerable stages. This is WHAT IT IS.
Hzqi 1 year ago
abortion=murder. usually stupid teens say abortion is fine, i can fuck whatever and whenever and just kill the baby tha never evin got a chance at life.
solly1170 2 years ago 2
I'm not going to say that killing a human being is ethically right by my standards, but I feel like the solution needs to involve more freedom to choose, not less. Educated women who can provide for themselves and understand sexual reproduction have less chance of being caught in a crisis situation.
Prohibitions drive vice industries underground where the crimes compound.
BTW, the death penalty totally contradicts everything else you said in the video. Be consistent, mr. logic.
davidwilliamson82 2 years ago
Actually it doesn't contradict what I said because there is a difference between innocent life and guilty life
There are reasons for society to protect itself from dangerous, unstable persons that have been given a fair chance at life.
Murdering a child is different because the child has been given no chance
bj07bran7 2 years ago
If might makes right, fine, but otherwise it isn't anyone's place to make moral judgments on anyone but themselves.
If you really want to save the lives of what we both agree are human beings, then you need to consider adopting. You might also consider subsidizing pregnancy and paying for mother's to take time off like they do in Canada. Accurate sex education is also a good idea.
Neither one of us like abortion, we agree that it is immoral, but you need to offer an alternative.
davidwilliamson82 2 years ago
This video is an argument against abortion and for pro-life. It was not meant to offer alternatives.
But there are many alternatives to abortions that can be explored
bj07bran7 2 years ago
Well, between a criticism and a better way to do things, which one has value without the other? (Hint: it isn't criticism)
Are you more interested in generating love and cooperation, or hatred and conflict?
What serves the interest of the unborn? Who's interest are you serving here?
davidwilliamson82 2 years ago
Innocent life. I believe that all human life is sacred and that everyone should be given a fair shot at life.
It is not a woman's decision on whether or not this should happen
bj07bran7 2 years ago
@bj07bran7
I don't know if this is of any interest to you, but I am neither religious or a believer in god. And I find no rational absolvance of Abortion. My favourite statement on the subject is the classic, basic: Everyone who ever supported slavery was free. Everyone who ever supported abortion, was born. That's how oppression works... We always hear this word "rights" thrown" around, however, I'd like to hear from the aborted. What might they have to say?
Hzqi 1 year ago
If someone commits a crime against a woman and the developing child dies, it's considered double homicide. If a woman voluntarily kills the baby, it's business as usual. Double standard, anyone?
exaurius 2 years ago
You are the most hateful person I have ever seen on YouTube, and that's saying a lot.
Not only are you anti-woman and want to bring big government to the United States, but you believe abortion should be punishable by DEATH? Are you crazy? Are you that much of a hypocrite? Rot in hell. The fact that you would say that is about as worse as all of Gerard Paul's videos combined.
VoiceHunter 2 years ago 9
And you think that innocent unborn children should be punished by death, whether its for the woman's selfish gain or rape. You are the hypocrite
Don't paint me as a monster just because I believe in the sanctity of innocent human life.
You are the one that will rot in hell
bj07bran7 2 years ago
I simply believe women should be trusted with their decisions, and that there should not be government interference. Abortion will happen whether you like it or not, either in a dirty old alley or a clinic, and the government won't be able to do anything to stop it. I could never understand why you won't let women live their own lives.
VoiceHunter 2 years ago
Listen you crackhead hippie.
It's not about womens rights. Its not about controling women. I can give less than a shit about what women do in their private lives. If they want to get drunk and be slutty every weekend, so be it.
But we are talking human life here. The fact that the life is inside her does not make it her choice on whether or not it should live.
Do parents OWN their children? Or are they responsible for taking care of that child they conceived together?
bj07bran7 2 years ago
If you're against abortion, then don't get one. But you have no right to criminalize the desperate, regardless of when you think life begins.
VoiceHunter 2 years ago
Moron. Moron. Moron.
I'm a male I can't get an abortion you moron
If we establish that the zygote inside the woman's stomach is human life that will grow into a full human if allowed to naturally, why should murder of it be allowed
Do you want to euthanize every brain dead patient? Every poor person who has no way of supporting themselves?
Your logic fails. Stop worshiping women and wake up you hippe freak. Go take your meth and sit in a circle with a fucking guitar . junkie
bj07bran7 2 years ago
Whatever. Then don't knock any girls up.
If we establish that this process of life occurs in a woman's body, why should criminalization of the woman be allowed?
I don't recall bringing up brain dead patients. Quite irrelevant.
I never knew that respecting women as equal was worshiping.
VoiceHunter 2 years ago
How many abortions occur because of the mothers health compared to the mother's selfishness
If the physical survival of the mother is threatened, that is another story. I am talking about MOST abortions, which are preformed out of selfishness.
If we outlaw SELFISH abortions then the clinics can be destroyed, because thats what most abortions are. They could be done in hospitals under doctor supervision
bj07bran7 2 years ago
@VoiceHunter
"Trusted with decisions" eh? So, does that mean you believe men should be "trusted with decisions" when it comes to supporting children they have no proper relationship with?
Standing by for double standard*
By "Live their own LIVES" I presume you're referring to, the living. You know, like the thing that's being poisoned and or dismembered and extracted, right? And these men that would like to raise an unwanted child, gosh, just living their own lives.
Hzqi 1 year ago
@Hzqi You're commenting on something I said ten months ago. Nice.
Of course, all sympathy goes to the man, as usual. Because men don't have to endure nine months, plus a lifetime of physical changes, they should not have any control over the fate of a fetus. I don't see why that's difficult to comprehend. Also, dumbass, I am a male. Go fuck yourself.
VoiceHunter 1 year ago
It doesn't matter when it was said. Unless you've changed your position, you said it, and I've stumbled across it. This pertains how exactly, to dumbassery?
All sympathy to man? As per usual? Which planet is this again? Being a male doesn't make you any less wrong. By the way. A child raised by wolves isn't a citizen either. Does that child have any civil rights? How exactly, do you figure that criminalizing an actually, conflates to the means by which it can be conducted? Wrong again.
Hzqi 1 year ago
You're right. Men don't have to endure nine-months. And neither does a women if she chooses to have an abortion. But that's not the issue here. The issue is about the power structure surrounding whether she "WILL" choose to endure nine months. See, I'm not an advocate of abortion, because I think BOTH parents should take responsibility for a pregnancy. The double-standard is when a woman is entitled to kill a fetus to relieve her onus. A man can't even WALK AWAY to relieve his.
Hzqi 1 year ago
@Hzqi The reason why we have child support is so that the woman wouldn't have to raise a child without financial aide. It's a pretty common issue, especially for the poorer parts of the US. And if you're that pissed about a guy paying child support, then maybe abortion really should be a legal option. Hell, I know some guys love forcing their girlfriends into keeping or aborting the baby. Either way, it's a disgusting and immoral thing to do.
VoiceHunter 1 year ago
PS, making the associated presumption as a MOTIVE for opposition, is really the most piss-weak form of retort that exists. It's as bad as a Christian saying "Why do you HATE god" just because they're an Atheist. Oh, it could possibly be the product of their own powers of deduction, and their principles of fairness. See, the problem with me is, when Feminists ranted "equality", I took them seriously. It's odd when a group of idealogues get angry for taking them at their word.
Ad hominems FTW.
Hzqi 1 year ago
@VoiceHunter
You know "guys" that "love" forcing girlfriends to keep or abort? Even without the pluralising that's one of the most unlikely scenarios I've ever heard. Firstly, he CAN'T force her to abort OR keep. She has all legal power. And to me, aborting a child (that is wanted by the Father), is an immoral thing to do. The legallity is a different matter. But since you went there, consider this. Women has abortion, it's, well, an abortion. Man causes fetus' death = Murder (some states).
Hzqi 1 year ago
@Hzqi True, a man has no legal authority over what a woman does with her fetus. However, men who use guilt or threats to force a decision ought to be ashamed of themselves, because they don't have to carry that fetus for nine months.
You are a hypocrite. First you are against child support (this has nothing to do with abortion, btw), then you are for it provided abortion is made illegal.
VoiceHunter 1 year ago
@VoiceHunter
No, there's no hypocrisy in it, because you simply do. not. understand. the point that is being made. It's a lateral point, not a linear point. If you confer it axiomatically, it will escape you. They are opposed postulations of what constitutes power. And I very clearly expressed my own preference after illustrating that only one of two options is universally fair towards men AND women. One of those two, are unfair to the fetus. Or try reading it again. I'm not typing it again.
Hzqi 1 year ago
@Hzqi
***Only two options ARE***
Bleh, I'm not assed to rectify typos.
Hzqi 1 year ago
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VoiceHunter 1 year ago
One way to help a person udnerstand the double-standard their head doesn't fit around, is to illustrate the reverse or "anti-woman" scenario. For women to be empowered to abort, but empowered to enforce Child-support is a double-standard against men. Against women, it would be: If she was denied the right to an abortion AND denied the right to enforce child support. The balance is one of two options in the middle. Abort without CS. No abort WITH CS. I vote latter.
Hzqi 1 year ago
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VoiceHunter 1 year ago
@Hzqi i If the man does not pay child support, then the child and mother may both suffer without financial aid- I'm sorry, I thought you were "for the baby." My mistake. And besides, the woman doesn't always end up having custody of the child. The father may end up with it with the woman having to provide financial aid. Huh. Child support don't sound so bad anymore, does it?"
VoiceHunter 1 year ago
@VoiceHunter
I don't have time to dedicate to the distraction of addressing everyone of your points. I will make the point however, that you seem to be either disingeuous of missing the point, when you tar me with what are straw-man notions. "For the baby"? Yeah, I am. Many of my posts however, are using lateral and hypothetical reasoning to highlight the contradictions and double-think that are evident in feminist endorsement, all over the place.
Hzqi 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Hzqi Nope. Sorry, Mr. Strawman. You're using stuff like child support to oppose abortion. Everything you're doing is just to push for what the boyfriend or husband would want. Stop equating child support with abortion... they are two very different things. Nothing you say is "fair" to the woman, because you believe she should be forced to have the child- or just dump it in adoption care, because that's the answer to everything, of course!
VoiceHunter 1 year ago
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exaurius 2 years ago
@VoiceHunter
"Anti-woman" is one of the most idiotically applied remarks hurled around the liberal-media echo-chamber. Just like the old "my body, my choice". Which, hey, is a true statement. However, people that like to deny men ANY rights (as you probably, predictably do), seem to forget what it is that men break for the 18 years they WORK to provide for children they've either been cuckolded into supporting, or denied access to. His WALLET, His BODY, His CHOICE. No? No sale?
Hzqi 1 year ago
@VoiceHunter I think what he's saying is that it's a form of murder and that if capital punishment is implemented then it would be hypocritical to not do the same to those who abort.
TheHumpadump 8 months ago
@TheHumpadump So that's what we want to do now? KILL innocent women and doctors for a medical procedure? That's where this country's values are? That's completely disgusting and unacceptable. We shouldn't have capital punishment in this country at all, and it just goes to show how hypocritical these anti-choicers are when they rally for it.
VoiceHunter 8 months ago
@VoiceHunter I'm merely explaining his point. Chill. What he's saying is that those women and doctors are not innocent. In your opinion they are 'disgusting', but then you must agree that capital punishment must be also since what you are saying would be hypocritical. This isn't actually my opinion at all; I disagree completely with capital punishment. However I understand that if you agree with capital punishment for murder then you'd have to agree to the death of mothers for choosing abortion.
TheHumpadump 8 months ago
@TheHumpadump My apologies, I must have misunderstood. I'm pro-choice and I oppose the death penalty in all cases because of my principles. I suppose that it would be consistent (though still very immoral) for anti-choicers to support killing women and doctors for performing abortions, if they truly believe that abortions are murder. Even still, they would be hypocrites for supporting the murder of adult human beings while claiming that they stand for life.
VoiceHunter 8 months ago
@VoiceHunter That is true; it would be hypocritical. I am pro-choice also, even though I feel abortion is deeply wrong. You can't force someone to not abort; it's their choice as they're their own moral agent.
TheHumpadump 8 months ago
I think you are speaking out of your hatred for women more than your own beliefs. Perhaps your belief that women are selfish and worth nothing but sex has led you to think it's okay to kill them if they get an abortion for whatever reason. I think that it is up to women, who are to fall pregnant and raise a child as to whether or not they want to do that. I don't particularly agree with abortion that is very late though.. it seems then the woman has probably been careless.
nicolaashley27 2 years ago
What hatred for women? Theres nothing in this video that states I hate women. It's a well thought out, logical argument that shows how arrogant pro-choice women are.
I simply believe that the zygote is human life. It has it's own unique genetic code from the moment of conception.
And I obviously refuted the rape argument.
And ye, I believe in capital punishment. When you murder someone, you lose rights. We as a society must decide if you are a danger to everyone and if you should live
bj07bran7 2 years ago
Why should you decide who lives or dies any more than another person? How do two wrongs make a right here?
nicolaashley27 2 years ago 2
Not me, I said we as a society.
There is a difference that you missing here. Innocent life and guilty life. An unborn child should not be put to death because it has done nothing wrong.
Guilt murderers should be allowed to be taken out of society, for the safety of everyone and so that their genes do not get passed on to further generations.
bj07bran7 2 years ago
Right. Well that's your opinion isn't it. We as a society obviously don't share your views or abortion wouldn't be legal anywhere. Why should people be murdered for your minority opinion?
nicolaashley27 2 years ago
Why should innocent babies be murdered for the selfish benefit of women. Why do women get to decide if a child is allowed to live. This is arrogance.
It doesn't matter if my opinion is the minority. MANY Americans agree with me.
Plus, just because it is the law does not make it right. It was once illegal for certain people to drink out of water fountains, was that right?
bj07bran7 2 years ago
Well I hate to break it to you but this debate actually exists outside America... Unless what you're saying there is that you don't care what happens outside your own country.
Again, laws during the slave trade (I think you were referencing?) isn't really the issue here. You could pick any number of past laws that perhaps should not have been in place in any country, you could try and pick out lots of historical controversies why not WW2?
nicolaashley27 2 years ago
I'm a nationalist, I care little about other nations. Some nations don't allow women to walk outside without head-wraps. Some nations stone homosexuals to death. Some nations don't allow protest. Some nations allow their people to live in poverty for their entire lives.
I am worried about my country, a free country.
I could pick any law that is unjust and compare it to what people say about abortion laws. Just because it is law does not make it right
bj07bran7 2 years ago
Yeah I guessed. Always find it interesting, how so many consider themselves to be nationalist in a country that is not even 300 years old...
A 'free' country, where people with lives and opinions should be murdered instead of having a choice?
Just because you think something is unjust, doesn't make it so. American will make their own decisions, and are capable of making the good ones- as I think can be seen with the recent election of a president who's has different views to yours on abortion.
nicolaashley27 2 years ago
At least you have the decency to admit you believe we're the only country on earth.
If you truly love this country, you should probably get out. Your twisted belief system is going to soon trigger another civil war. Anyone with eyes can see that.
VoiceHunter 2 years ago
I never said that. You invented that statement.
Being a nationalist is something that you do not understand. Your an internationalist, so maybe YOU should go live in Haiti, and see how fun it is
bj07bran7 2 years ago
You obviously don't know the difference between a nationalist and a patriot. In fact, I always thought you anti-choicers were the people who are against America, not me.
VoiceHunter 2 years ago
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exaurius 2 years ago
If women can choose to get an abortion or not, then the father should be able to have a say if the child dies or not, but that's not the case. Women want all the power they can get.
exaurius 2 years ago
Very good point. There would be no infant without the male's sperm. Therefore he helped create the zygote and he should have a say in what happens to it.
That is yet another way women are selfish and power hungry
bj07bran7 2 years ago
God forbid women have any power, right?
The man can have a child any time he wants and not have to deal with the nine months of struggle and changes. You obviously don't know what pregnancy feels like.
VoiceHunter 2 years ago
You would kill another human being to save you from temporary pain?
I already know the answer.
Yep.
exaurius 2 years ago
Temporary pain... just wow.
No wonder you're against abortion. You want to multiply to no end so as to spread your idiocy around the country. Your parents did it, and now so will you.
VoiceHunter 2 years ago
Wow ok. First of all, I don't meet women for sex, second of all, just no. I want kids with someone else who also has good genes, but thanks for your concern.
exaurius 2 years ago
I would also not brainwash my children into believing/fearing your fake God, but thanks for your concern.
exaurius 2 years ago
lmao if a girl doesnt want a baby she needs to use a condom or keep her legs closed its simple.
solly1170 2 years ago 5
Because condoms always work, right?
Yeah, keep her legs closed. She should also stop eating. Or breathing. Or sleeping. Just the things we should hold back from.
VoiceHunter 2 years ago
lol another selfish girl whatever if you think its right go ahead and kill babys
solly1170 2 years ago
I got a question. What is rape occurs? Should she keep the baby? She won't recieve help from the father. She won't get anything. It'll just make the baby's life worse. Just like killing someone who's situation will not get any better. I think there are circumstances where abortion is wrong and when they are right.
littleboypratk 2 years ago
She should keep the baby. There can be a government program set up specifically to help mothers raising children who were raped.
The only situation where abortion is permissible is when the physical survival of the mother is threatened. This should be determined by 3 medical doctors
bj07bran7 2 years ago
If the baby is such a "human life" as you say, then remove it from the woman's body entirely, and let it survive on it's own. - Oh wait, it can't. Meaning that it needs that life support from the woman to survive. Youre saying that woman should be forced to provie that life support. Which is mosogynistic, domination of women.
Ayatron34 2 years ago 3
misogynistic*
Ayatron34 2 years ago
No, this is a trap you are trying to set. You want to call anyone who is against abortion "misogynistic".
This is what I mean when I say people like you hide behind women's rights.
And what makes you think human life can automatically survive by itself.
Let me ask you, where you able to support yourself at the time you came out of your mother or did you need her to take care of you until you could? Thats a foolish argument
bj07bran7 2 years ago
And my mother was not FORCED to take care of me when I came out of the womb. It's your arguments thats the bullshit ones. You would be forcing women to use their bodies as baby life support systems. When its not yours, or the state's choice to make.
You are dominating a woman's body you misogynistic bastard.
Ayatron34 2 years ago 2
@Ayatron34
Not even an infant can survive without being supported by a parent. Is infanticide acceptable, too? Is it wrong when women dump babies in trashcans? They will surely die without intervention.
Hzqi 1 year ago
@Hzqi
Are you playing dumb or something? An infant can be cared for by somebody else. No one else can care for the unborn babu until it reaches a certain stage. You can't force someone to care for another because it's a violation of that persons "Right to Privacy" as detailed in the Human Rights Act. The. End.
Ayatron34 1 year ago
@Ayatron34
This one also, I'm not going to be drawn into a long winded discourse on it. Just don't have the time. There's one query I'm curious about though. What is your distinction on the abortion timeline? Is it a solid line? Is it vague? Is it early? Late? You say that gestation constitutes "care" (that's semantic), so what about a baby past 40 weeks? Is this still a privacy violating care? Acceptable abortion? Just curious.
Hzqi 1 year ago
@Ayatron34
Consider your position on caring, I'm also curious about how your views pertain to "child neglect". What's the cut off point of this "force to care". Is the onus to seek another carer? Or hell, is it acceptable to dump a newborn in a dumpster somewhere. Lines are funny things. Just wondering where you draw them.
Hzqi 1 year ago
@Ayatron34
I'm also not sure which region you're referring to, but the "Human Rights Act" that was passed in Australia is not constitutionally legal (but then fuck all of what parliament or state does actually is) for reasons which are subtle to understand, but are clear. If you're in Australia, do you remember being called for a referendum on the act? No, BREACH. But when pollies are funding Chaplains and Medicating the Population without consent (flouride), HEY! Constitution?
Hzqi 1 year ago
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VoiceHunter 1 year ago
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VoiceHunter 1 year ago
@Ayatron34
I'll bet you're the kind that is quick to remind men of their responsibilities IF she should CHOOSE to have a child. So, where's your equivilent reminder for women. You know, if you are the kind that takes delight in labelling men as "deadbeats".
Hzqi 1 year ago
@Ayatron34
By the way. "Life support"? Theoretically, someone else could provide child support. Do you believe they should be forced to?. This is misandrist domination of men, right? Or should they just "man up".
Hzqi 1 year ago
@Hzqi It;s against the US constitution as well in a court of law. Ruled as being a violation to the Human Right to Privacy.
No one can provide life support but the mother prior to a certain point. Babies that are too young cannot survive on the outside even with life support.
You can't force a woman to bear a child. If you can do that, then she can force you to donate your blood to save a life. Yes it'll save lives, but you'll be violating each other's right to privacy.
IT'S THE LAW.
Ayatron34 1 year ago
@Ayatron34
Now, as much as I appreciate your propensity to fulminations without actually comprehending what someone is illustrating, try to get it right. I never COMPLAINED (O EM GEE! THA UNFAIRZORZ!), no, I politely pointed out a blatant social and legal double-standard.
If the women want to "HOLD MEN" to the fincial responsibilities, and being "deadbeats", then they ought to be held to their own responsibilities. But no, they, like you, will crow for the cake, and the eating. More power plz
Hzqi 1 year ago
@Hzqi
That man isn't forced to provide life support though. The doctor and the nurse and the hospital technican can all QUIT their jobs. They don't have to do anything.
If a mother wants to quit, you want to throw the fucking book at her. Which is misogyny because if she doesn't want to use her body in a certain way that 's it. No arguments to be had. It's her choice, like it's your choice if you want to enter a career that saves lives.
Ayatron34 1 year ago
@Ayatron34
If a mother wants to quit? Somewhere within 9 months? You must have missed the part about what child support is, and how it works. Quit? Neglect? What was your term again, yes, THROW THE BOOK at him. They are perfectly analogous. The same people who castigate men as deadbeats for expecting ANY kind of option pertaining to their own rights, are the ones who call it "misogyny" if you observe what is in fact, a double standard. Yes, in FACT. Inescapable, empirical double-standard.
Hzqi 1 year ago
@Hzqi
What, you're whining about having to pay child support now? What the fuck does that have to do with abortion? If everyone was pro life, men AND WOMEN would still need to pay child support. It's whichever parent doesn't have custody that has to pay, not just men full stop.
So exactly what the fuck is your point? Men getting raked over child support is a diifferent issue entirely.
And the adoption system is overcrowded. They wouldn't want the extra from a pro life regime.
Ayatron34 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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6676plentybody 1 year ago
@Ayatron34
Let me see if I can p-l-o-d through this in a manner your acorn can wrap itself around. Firstly, the manner of child-support is a different subject, but there is an analogous conjunction as it pertains to the enforcement of responsibility. At the moment of conception there is a baby pending, saved the matter of abortion. This puts the female wholly in the drivers seat. If she decides for whatever reason, she doesn't want to have the baby, she can "opt out" of responsibility.
Hzqi 1 year ago
@Ayatron34
And considering the social options available to her, AFTER the hypothetical birth, even then, she can "opt out" (adoption for example). At no time, after the event of a conception, can a man "opt out" of anything. If she choose to abort, then he's on the sidelines to observe the elimination of a child, that he may well have wanted. Ok, let's postulate she has this right. While she can eliminate the life, he can't even eliminate her right to his wallet. He can't abort, or adopt it.
Hzqi 1 year ago
@Ayatron34
There are only two conceivable options, that are universally fair so fair as only the parents are concerned. If she has the right to an abortion, that's her ground zero power to withdraw responsibility. She should not be empowered to demand child-support as well. If it's an onus upon the man in the event of the child, to pay mandatory child support, she shouldn't be empowered with a mere whim of denial. It is ALL POWER on ONE SIDE. This is not equality.
Hzqi 1 year ago
@Ayatron34
And it's the mere tip of the ice-berg of the erosion at the core of society from the family nucleus. If women weren't so empowered to abused prejudiced Domestic Laws, along with all the other family provisions, a whole different mentallity towards social outcomes would evolved. The structure that exists, actively nurtures misguided state dependents.
Men are no longer encouraged as the essential component of the child's life. They're there to shovel coal and keep the world turning.
Hzqi 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Ayatron34
@Ayatron34 @Ayatron34 is a homosexsual very very ugly dirty creepy African BLACK ! ! BLACK ! ! BLACK ! ! BLACK ! ! BLACK GAY ! ! This beast , this shit has bad-smelling big BLACK testicles and a large dirty BLACK penis. ! ! This motherfucker loves the Batman ( The Death of Batman ) who is a manly handsome white "man".
6676plentybody 1 year ago
@Ayatron34
Pro-abortion / Pro-mandatory child-support, is an immaculate double-standard.
Woman escapes a fixed 9 months of responsibility by ending a life: LIBERATED!
Man escapes a fixed 18 years of responsibility by walking away: DEADBEAT!
It's funny, a woman can even put the baby up for adoption and never hear about it again. Does that mean, well, he can have his responsibility... Adopted?
Didn't think so.
Hzqi 1 year ago
@Ayatron34
PS: You're correct. If abortion was not arbitrarily legal, everyone would STILL be expected to pay child support. I like this model, better than the other one. I believe in men being responsible for their actions. Too bad so much of society doesn't expect the same of women. The believe in empowerment for women. They go awfully hush about the other word.
Hzqi 1 year ago
If you cant understand how having a rapists baby would ruin a womans life then you are completely beyond all reach.
Even for non rape victims -
What do you think being forced to carry and bear an unwanted child is going to do to the woman's mental state? You think shes suddenly going to be blissfully happy once the child comes out? Are you that deluded?
Ayatron34 2 years ago 3
Much good can stem from a child. Rape is horrible, but the end result can be positive. You must understand this.
Like I said before, I am not proposing she be forced to take care of the child. There is adoption. There are ways to get around murder
bj07bran7 2 years ago
The adoption system is overburdened as it is. And murder my ass. Its less "murder" than killing an animal for meat is. At least the animal has a consciousness, the fetus does not. Its not even putting it out of its misery, it cant feel misery. It can't miss what it never had so it's not cruel to kill it in the early stages. And bullshit are there ways to get around abortion. The only way is illegal abortion, which is dangerous. Again, you are never going to force a woman to carry for 9 months.
Ayatron34 2 years ago 2
And force her to bear the child. Many will find a way to kill it by, non legal, medical or non medical means. Its impossible to police it and actually policing it comes close to a totalitarian police state. Which would be a disaster.
Ayatron34 2 years ago
It's impossible to prevent it but it is possible to hold the murderers responsible.
And after a few generations of holding human life in a higher value, this will die down. Eventually people would see that children are not a burden if they stop being so selfish and self-indulgent
bj07bran7 2 years ago
"By that logic, millions of kids should be murdered because they have bad fathers. Thats your logic "
My logic is that fully functioning and sentient humans should be killed en masse? Thats news to me dumbass.
Ayatron34 2 years ago
yes, because your point was that since the child's father was a rapist, the child is less human and therefore should be allowed to be killed
bj07bran7 2 years ago
By your fucked up logic, its better to have lived starving and in agony in the worst parts of Africa than to have never known life. It's absurd, and sick.
Ayatron34 2 years ago 2
That is not my logic. That is your failure to properly interpret what I am saying
bj07bran7 2 years ago
Putting and "end of the debate" LMAO. As if this cerebral retardation is going to convince a single pro lifer.
XD
Ayatron34 2 years ago
You've said nothing to refute my argument. You simply threw out an insult with a smug, arrogant overtone.
XD
bj07bran7 2 years ago
The irony here is that you accuse others of being arrogant when you epitomize that yourself.
Suggesting that this 2 minute video with crappy animation and a terrible computerized voice will "put an end to the debate" is one of the funniest things I've ever seen.
gingersnaps734 2 years ago
You've still said nothing intelligent. Have haven't presented any argument.
Your making yourself look bad, please stop
bj07bran7 2 years ago
"Punishable by death"? You say that after all this you spout about "respecting life" and not deciding for another living being?
You are the arrogant one, and quite the hypocrite. You're the one who seems to be hiding behind an agenda with your inaccurate portrayal of the issue. Pro-Choice isn't about KILLING CHILDREN, it's about a woman being able to control her own body and not risk her own life by terminating the growth of a bunch of non-specialized cells.
In rape cases it is very obvious.
gingersnaps734 2 years ago
There is a difference between innocent life and guilty life. There are legitimate reason to support capital punishment. If a person is a murderer, we as a people must decide whther or not they are fit to continue on in our society. We must do what is best for our safety.
An unborn child has committed no crime. An unborn child hasn't been given the chance at life and is therefore completely innocent.
bj07bran7 2 years ago
"To decide for someone else what constitutes an acceptable quality of life is also an exercise in unparalleled arrogance..."
Your own quote.^ Who are you to say that a murderer is a "guilty life", and what sentiments are you basing that on? Are you basing that on your own opinion of how that person should act? Yeah, that's arrogance, and in this case that's hypocrisy.
gingersnaps734 2 years ago
I am basing that on what my opinion is of a guilt person, as well as the vast majority of humans in our society as well as around the globe. Mostly everyone agrees that a murderer is a "guilty life" and as I said before, as a society we come together and decide whether that person is fit to live among us.
My definition of "guilty life" is very concrete and is in line with what other humans feel about it as well.
Are we all arrogant because we deem a murderer "guilty"?
bj07bran7 2 years ago
That's assuming she didn't put it up for adoption. That is also assuming she didn't do the sure thing, which would be to leave the baby on the front door of a church or police station. There are laws in place for that.
Also, there really is no excuse for unwanted pregnancy. Birth control and condoms are on every other commercial on tv. So it would not be unfair to outlaw abortion; the people have been given adequate tools to prevent the pregnancy.
bj07bran7 2 years ago
Also, about it being the women's body.
Yes, it is her body. However, there is human life within her body. The human life inside her may very well be in her body, but she does not own it. It is an individual. Fetus's have their own genes, their own DNA, their own genetic makeup.
It IS about killing children, and "women's rights" is what pro-choicer's hide behind to justify murder.
And I already addressed the argument of rape in the video. Listen
bj07bran7 2 years ago
It is not an individual as it has no sentience. Do you whine like this when you buy meat from slaughtered animals? No? Hypocrite. Do you give blood and organs in the cause to be pro life? No? Double Hypocrite. Forcing women to have babies would be a total disaster. It's abuse. But they're "evil, conniving" demons according to you, so I doubt you'll care much huh.
Ayatron34 2 years ago
Do I whine when I buy meat that was a murdered animal? Your right, I don't.
But there is a clear difference between human life and an animal. Perhaps I'm biased because I'm human and belong to a superior species.
Answer these 2 questions:
When you see a squirrel that was run over on the road, do you rush it to the veternarian? (you drive away, hypocrit)
If you saw a dead person on the road that was just was run over, do you rush them to the hospital? (or do you drive away?)
bj07bran7 2 years ago
Im not making the claim to be pro life am I durr. You are.
A zygote does not equal a human. By your logic wasting eggs and sperm is a high crime. Absurd. A zygote cannot think beyond instincts - and is mentally no different from it's animal equivalents. Its simply not the states place to force these wome to have these unwanted babies. Unless its suddenly a totalitarian dictatorship, which is the most unamerican thing ever.
Ayatron34 2 years ago 3
You simply misunderstand what a zygote is. A zygote is not sperm or an egg. A zygote results from the fertilization event between the 2. That is conception. That is when pregnancy begins. That is human life.
And sure, mentally the zygote is incapable of anything. However, does this make it less human? No, because it is in the process of developing that mental capacity.
So according to YOUR logic, all mentally handicapped individuals should be euthanized. If thats your position, well....
bj07bran7 2 years ago
It. Is. A, Non. Sentient. Batch of Cells.
Potential doesnt mean anything. Its not cruel to kill it based on potential. It doesnt feel pain and its putting it down quick. What IS cruel to her and the baby is forcing the woman to have an unwanted, hated baby which she will end up hurting or overburdening the adoption and Foster system. The child will have a totally shit life, and the mother will have gone through downright abuse by your "law". Its sick.
Ayatron34 2 years ago 2
And it IS an individual. It has its own unique genetic code. It has DNA. To end life at any point in someone's life is murder.
We as humans are always growing. I am not the same person I was 4 years ago. We all go threw different stages. The zygote is still human life.
So it isn't "potential", it already is human life. Your logic says that I should be killed because the person I am today will no longer exist years from now because as a human I am always changing
bj07bran7 2 years ago
A bunch of DNA does not make a human. It is not cruel to destroy a bunch of non sentient DNA. It can;t think or feel pain or do anything that would make it human. Its humane killing of something that would be unwanted and have a shit life if they were allowed to live. That isnt even the issue. The real issue is that you physically can't force a woman to give birth if they don't want to. No arguments.
Ever hear of back street abortions? No? Well learn.
Ayatron34 2 years ago 3
Btw , your voice is annoying as shit in your videos.
Ayatron34 2 years ago 2
I'll take that as a concession.
And this isn't my voice lol, it's a computer voice that I created. This video was built from the ground up and is all comuterized
bj07bran7 2 years ago
-"It can't think or feel pain"
So lets kill all brain dead people.
-"A bunch of DNA does not make a human."
What do you mean a bunch of DNA. It is more than that. It is a human zygote that has it's own unique genteic coding. It is an individual because if the natural process is allowed, it will expand and grow into a fetus, and so on. That is not "potential". That is an absolute.
I can't physically force a woman to give birth but a doctor is allowed to physically vacuum out a fetus?
bj07bran7 2 years ago
It is potential because it hasnt happened yet. The zygote has not grown into a human being yet. So killing it is not cruelty. It's cruelty to force the mother to carry it for 9 months, birth it - risking her own life in the process - for a child that nobody wants.
The doctor vacuuming out the fetus is doing so under the woman's permission. You would be making her carry and bear it against her will. Its invasive and an infringement upon her human rights. early Zygotes do not have human rights.
Ayatron34 2 years ago 2
-" You would be making her carry and bear it against her will"
But it's worse to end a human life. Simple as that.
-"Its invasive and an infringement upon her human rights"
What about the rights of the human life inside her?
The zygote IS a human being. It is in the earliest stages, yes. But it is HUMAN LIFE. Once the zygote appears it is human.
Killing it is cruel. You keep trying to justify murder and you fail every time. A Zygote is human life. Period.
bj07bran7 2 years ago
"Killing it is cruel"
Well this is where we disagree and will always disagree. And the law agrees with me, so you can spout your evangelical christian shit on abortion till you're blue in the face, the law will never change.
The zygote legally does not have human rights until it has reached a certain stage of development.
Making a woman, especially a raped woman, bear a child against her will would ruin her entire life. And it would be ruining the life of the child. So worse how?
Ayatron34 2 years ago 2
First of all, throughout all of this, I have never mentioned religion not even once.
Second of all, I addressed the rape issue in the video. I guess your ears are clogged.
To argue that abortion should be allowed in the case of rape makes no sense. You are dehumanizing life. You are saying that the fact that a father is bad, the child is less human.
By that logic, millions of kids should be murdered because they have bad fathers. Thats your logic
bj07bran7 2 years ago
"Second of all, I addressed the rape issue in the video. I guess your ears are clogged."
And I disagree with every single word of the mental retardation you spouted in the video. Especially about rape. Because you;re a misogynist and view women as just here to make babies anyway, than forcing a woman to have a baby and endanger her health even after she was raped means nothing to you because you have no empathy. Ruining the mother and child's lives for your pro life crap.
Ayatron34 2 years ago
I never said women were only good for making babies.....you made that up.
I never said anything mysogynistic....you made that up.
My argument is not to control women or their bodies. My argument is that what is inside them is a individual person and therefore terminating their life is murder.
And I'm not talking about mother's health. If the physical survival of the mother is threatened, then abortion should be allowed only in that case. But it is to be signed off by 4 doctors
bj07bran7 2 years ago
- XD Never said anything misogynistic? Try "All women are evil conniving and manipulative". owned.
No my point is that forcing a rape victim to have the baby is utterly ruining her life so that another may have a shitty unwanted childhood and life. How considerate of you huh.
Also which part of if it was made illegal than women will just get it illegally don't you get? You would be inviting criminals and scumbags to take advantage of women who you would have made desperate.
Ayatron34 2 years ago
No, not owned. In that context I was talking about the women who are like that. Many of them are. its fact not misogyny
No, making it illegal would not create the black market you speak of. We could eliminate all the clinics. The vast majority of abortions would stop. In the case of the women's health, that operation could be performed in the hospital by real doctors, not demonic abortion doctors.
And how is having a baby necessarily going to ruin a woman's life? A child is precious
bj07bran7 2 years ago
"No, making it illegal would not create the black market you speak of. We could eliminate all the clinics"
If theres money to be made in it then there would be the black market. You could get rid of the clinics, it would make zero difference. The criminals would even do the abortion by non medical means if they have to. Some women would try to remove or kill the baby by unmedical means. For safety, we need abortion, You cannot force people into pregnancy, They will always find a way.
Ayatron34 2 years ago
And don't bother using the law in your argument. It is against the law to speak your mind in some countries. It was once against the law for certain people to marry.
So the law is completely arbitrary in this context. It neither helps or hinders what your saying
bj07bran7 2 years ago
"Abortion, even of a rapists baby, is punishable by death."
You really are quite insane.
>_>
Ayatron34 2 years ago
No arguement against your video message but, I like to put it this way, Abortion is convenient birth control for irresponsible women who decide that carrying, giving brith and raising a child is inconvenient for their lifestyle.
1searchndestroy 2 years ago
Why do you call it a form of "birth control" rather than a form of murder?
Just like the video says, to decide to end the life of a child simply out of convenience is not only dangerous, but arrogant at the same time.
I respect your opinion but it seems that you don't value human life very much.
bj07bran7 2 years ago
I respect human life over anything else. Served in combat & didn't like the waste of human life on both sides. My point was women think of abortion as birth control, I thiink of abortion as murder. Only have 500 chars so I can't spill it out to people who can't read between the lines in a forum like this. Sorry you misunderstood. hope this comment clears things up.
1searchndestroy 2 years ago